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Hyudra
2011-02-15, 11:31 AM
[list] It's less damage than Sneak Attack and requires an additional action. There is also great incentive to not deal the damage as the AC penalty might lead to higher damage when you factor in Power Attack and allies. If you still think it should be lowered, by how much?

The additional action isn't that crippling in contrast to sneak attack, when you account for the trouble rogues go to to employ sneak attack, getting into flanking positions in combat, hiding, using concealment spells or trinkets, yadda yadda.

It remains very similar to sneak attack in effect, but is easier to apply and has versatility (through AC reduction) that sneak attack does not offer.


Why not? I was hesitant on the Free Action but a first level spell as a Swift action at level 11 hardly seems unfair. I removed the Free Action but increased the duration starting at Move Action.

D&D balance is driven in part by the action economy. Players are largely kept in line by the number of actions they are free to make, and time & time again, we've seen that things that break the limits on actions one can make are exceedingly powerful.

On the other side of the coin, save or sucks/loses/dies are what lead to victory in most/many battles.

Combine the two elements, for a 'save or suck' effect that can be used without wasting a standard or move action, and you've got an absolutely massive power increase. You're offering a hell of a lot of battlefield control for no meaningful sacrifice. IIRC, the Briarvex doesn't have a lot else to do with its swift actions, so you're not exactly losing anything by throwing out an entangle every round. In doing so, you're rendering opponents immobile (if they're next to a pillar or rock) or halving their movement and imposing a -2 to attacks and a -2 to AC. It doesn't sound like that sizeable a drawback, but when every enemy in every battle you go into suffers those penalties, it adds up considerably. And you're getting that for a 2 level investment in the class (and waiting to get 9 HD after that point, of course)

FishAreWet
2011-02-15, 11:51 AM
Like I asked, if you think Thorn Burrow does too much damage even if you sacrifice the Dex penalty and the Swift Action to deal it, how much damage should it deal? Cap out of 5d6 instead of 6d6? Cap out at 4d6? Or would keeping the damage the same and easing the action to remove the thorns be better? I stand by that in a party of more then one physical attacker, the damage increase from the Dex penalty and Power Attack is greater then pulling out Thorns every round.

There are plenty of things to do with Swift Actions. The SLA it gets, the ability to deal damage with Thorns, and a short duration Entangle. I think there is a real choice to be made on which one to use every round. If the Briarvex wants to focus on dealing more damage he may lose a Full Round Attack and instead opt for a Move Action Entangle, freeing him to only choose between Thorn damage and his SLA for his swift action. And if the Briarvex enters a class which needs lots of swift action(ToB), the choices are even starker. If you still disagree I'll concede my point, remove the Swift Action Entangle, and move back the duration increase.

DiBastet
2011-02-15, 03:12 PM
Put this line in your comments, when we link to this post we just want people to see the monster.
I'll do once I'm finished, then you can link people to the image.


Add an alternative here for those of us without ToB.
It's part of the original work by the other creator, and its a filler. Feel free to give an option. Seems unnecessary.


This is a really big bonus, at 8 HD it already provides as much as full plate, can be enchanted normally, and has none of full plate's problems. And it only gets better from there..
:smallsmile: By level 20 it's something like a +14 armor. The best I've seen around was a +10 armor, full of problems btw. I'll consider another number, maybe it should finish in +12. Good point on this one.


What about arcane spell failure?
:smallannoyed: Sure


disintegrated or otherwise destroyed in a way that leaves no remains
:smallannoyed: Sure


You should probably attach a small price to rebuilding the armor. It'll be negligible by the time disintegrate comes into play, but it isn't impossible for them to lose their armor early on.
Never. it's part of the lore to begin with, and don't clutter something with unnecessary. When it appears it's negligible, and if it's negligibe there's no need to be here. Simpler's better.


When will he not be?
When he's sleeping? Inside a court with a no-armor sign? In any of the many situations that come in a campaign but never in CO? One day or another he might not be in the armor, and the player should know that the ability works only while in his armor.


Pretty much everything so far has been passive. Consider some ToB-esque stances/manuevers
:smallsmile: The previous author received a big no for one of the council about ToB things. He probably wanted to much in any case. Good point here. I shall take a look.


Explicitly state saving throws, they should probably be set to 10+.5HD+Cha in order to remain relevant. Also it should have each level it gains spell-like abilities listed separately.
It should? Requirement or just style? I'll take a look at other approved monster classes for proper format. Unless otherwise noted slas are 10 + 1/2 hd + relevant ability, no? But it's prettier like that, I believe.


What on earth does a primal aspect of war have to do with living spells?
That's something the designer's got to explain me. I'll keep it since it's part of the creature and the lore made for it. Then I'll keep it.


1d6?
You red it right. 1d4. Circle of blades begins on 1d6, and it's 1 r / cl, and this one's free. This ability should just "be there". In the original monster it's mere 2d6 on top of its cr 14 might. I'm keeping the spirit of the ability at least.


Greater Magic weapon on its own doesn't really carry seventh level, you probably had magic weapons anyway.
:smallsmile: It doesn't. When I'm finished with adding ability scores I'll put something on the weaker levles, that's for sure.


11th level is horrible...increasing a single d4 damage die to a d6 is not a class feature, at least it shouldn't be.
:smallannoyed: It's based on HD, not class levels. Plus, as the above.


You do not need to keep the racial hit-die characteristics. Quoting myself: "I like, however, to keep the type Stats"


If it doesn't have good BaB you need to at least give it boni to it's combat stats... or give it boni to charisma and let it use that in the place of strength if you'd find that more flavorful.
:smallsmile: If you look at the monster it's a Dex based critter. Besides this, the ability scores should come, but I need opinions before. fell free to suggest how much in terms of ability scores is needed. Some cha, but it won't use for attacks no.


Past 8th level there ISN'T better armor.
You already said that. More mechanical reason to fit the lore.


Good job on these ones, but I almost feel like it should become unlimited base on HD after the first ability, you can use the empty levels later to add special effects on deflection or something like that... don't be afraid to deviate from the monster.
:smallsmile:Good point on this one! I can understand why you almost feel it, because I felt too. It surely is something to consider. And i don't have the intention of deviating from the monster on the first draft. Now, on to the second I'll add more things. But only after the ability scores.


Thanks for all the imput, the useful and the otherwise!

But I want opinions on ability scores. I think it's better to have opinions to begin with than just having these opinions after I make a first try.

Hyudra
2011-02-15, 04:08 PM
:smallsmile: The previous author received a big no for one of the council about ToB things. He probably wanted to much in any case. Good point here. I shall take a look.

Actually, it wasn't an issue regarding "ToB things" so much as it was an issue regarding direct copying of copyrighted material. Saidoro was suggesting ToB-esque things, which means you would make up abilities and stances with the same style and methodology, without copying original work.


Quoting myself: "I like, however, to keep the type Stats"

We don't really do this, here. Type stats are a way to keep things really simple for the DM. Applying it to a monster class is needless and potentially problematic. It also applies a straitjacket to the design where it's really not needed.


:smallsmile: If you look at the monster it's a Dex based critter. Besides this, the ability scores should come, but I need opinions before. fell free to suggest how much in terms of ability scores is needed. Some cha, but it won't use for attacks no.

Try to keep ability scores to a minimum. This isn't a monster, but a monster class. As such, the standard method is to finish the monster, then see if it needs a leg up anywhere. Non-full-BAB melee classes (brutes like Giant, Minotaur) will generally get STR to keep it relevant, and monsters with no fine manipulation and/or no speech (ie. Griffon) will often get better stat bonuses. Humanoids, though, don't need stats up the wazoo, so keep it small. Haven't looked over the Ragewalker, but I'd suggest a +1 to a relevant stat every 3 or 4 levels as a starting point.

Mystic Muse
2011-02-15, 05:40 PM
Okay Kobold, as per your request, here is what I found about the Quasi God.

Divine spark could probably use a debuffing ability

Do the deity's subtypes change if their alignment changes?

Hamper the competition should say that you get it at 4th level.

On Aura of divinity, the "drain" minor ability doesn't seem useful. May just be me, but it seems like it doesn't scale fast enough.

On Divine Travel it doesn't mention that the teleport 5ft/HD ability is at will.

On personal plane, being able to create any mundane plant life sounds like it would allow you to create expensive poisons and such and when it mentions the fast healing it says “gain Fast Healing 1/5HD up to 1/2 their max HP” but should probably say “they gain fast healing 1/5 HD that heals up to ½ their max HP”


Under Immortal it says “Quasi-God's now do not need to eat, sleep, or breathe and can.” without stating what they can do.

In immortal it says “1/2 their class level” but I think you meant “1/2 their HD.” If not, that's a pretty weak capstone.

Draconi Redfir
2011-02-16, 11:36 AM
So i'm just wondering, has anyone ever made a "pet" statblock for cloakers? i would really like to play a ranger or a druid with a cloaker as a pet :smallbiggrin:

Kobold-Bard
2011-02-16, 03:21 PM
Okay Kobold, as per your request, here is what I found about the Quasi God.

Divine spark could probably use a debuffing ability

Added.

Do the deity's subtypes change if their alignment changes?

I assumed that was assumed to happen. Added a note (which I will remove if its not supposed to happen).

Hamper the competition should say that you get it at 4th level.

Added.

On Aura of divinity, the "drain" minor ability doesn't seem useful. May just be me, but it seems like it doesn't scale fast enough.

Made it so they lose HP = Q-G's HD. Too much?

On Divine Travel it doesn't mention that the teleport 5ft/HD ability is at will.

Added.

On personal plane, being able to create any mundane plant life sounds like it would allow you to create expensive poisons and such and when it mentions the fast healing it says “gain Fast Healing 1/5HD up to 1/2 their max HP” but should probably say “they gain fast healing 1/5 HD that heals up to ½ their max HP”

Fixed the wording on the healing. It also says that nothing except food can have an effect in the real world so any poisons you make would be useless.

Under Immortal it says “Quasi-God's now do not need to eat, sleep, or breathe and can.” without stating what they can do.

..."still do so if they wish". Added.

In immortal it says “1/2 their class level” but I think you meant “1/2 their HD.” If not, that's a pretty weak capstone.

Fixed.

Thanks much for the feedback.

Hyudra
2011-02-16, 03:25 PM
So i'm just wondering, has anyone ever made a "pet" statblock for cloakers? i would really like to play a ranger or a druid with a cloaker as a pet :smallbiggrin:

You could try taking leadership feat and having a cloaker cohort.

Hyudra
2011-02-17, 08:48 PM
Yellow Musk Creeper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9924181&postcount=152), Living Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9764043&postcount=1133), Animated Object (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9867627&postcount=50), Wendigo (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9981253&postcount=518)
Moving to abandoned list again. Magicyop asked me to take them off the list a week ago, but then disappeared again.

Bleakborn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9618000&postcount=669):
I wonder if greater brittle strike isn't redundant. I mean, at 7th level, you've got 21 uses of your brittle strike. At ~4 encounters per day, this is ~5 uses per encounter. By 8th or 9th level you'll have enough uses not to care anymore.

Pandorym (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9943992&postcount=295)
Your prestige class picture is kind of distracting. Break it into a separate post?
Your comments box at the bottom of Pandorym is listed as comments/changelog. There is no changelog therein. This is annoying.
Your changelog refers to Lightning Mind. I see no such ability.
1st level still kinda sucks a lot.
Can't really comment on manifestation of will. Not that well versed in psionics.
In Psionic Vortex, you state 'per day per day'.

Dwarf Ancestor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9967230&postcount=491)
Moving to the abandoned list, I think. Last updated 01-12-2011, no response to recent critique/comment by Gorgondantess.

Jovoc (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9955384&postcount=425)
Really needed/needs a changelog. I would've critiqued if I'd known what to critique.
Retributive Aura still really bugs me. It's clunky (every time you're taking damage, you're having to roll & check stuff, every time!) and strikes me as somewhat overpowered.

Gargoyle (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9959382&postcount=443)
Looks pretty good.

Remorhaz (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9980073&postcount=505)
"which deals 1d10+ 2*STR damage(bludgeoning)" (Rush) - implies the normal charges deal that, not the rush. Reword to 'dealing 1d10 + twice STr mod'?
Trouble with item destruction like in Property Destruction is that you're destroying your potential loot.

Gray Jester (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10051752&postcount=693)
Changelog is not up to date. This is frustrating, because I was willing to critique changes you'd made, but don't know what they are.
Found your changes elsewhere. Let's see...
Hrm. Given Gorgondantess' thoughts, maybe we should consider the template idea for joy slaves. Just to strip them of their spells and innate abilities.

Flesh Golem (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10073494&postcount=714)
Don't know what to add. Gorgondantess' previous comments about it being a little too similar (and inferior) to the Iron Golem are still pretty on target.
Why does an ability called grotesque visage give a bonus to strength checks?
And getting a +20 to strength checks at 20HD is kinda woah. Not necessarily a good woah either.

Quasi-God (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10077255&postcount=719)
No changelog? I weep! :smallfrown:
"1/day for every 2HD the Quasi-God may heal or repair (for constructs) a creature (including yourself) by the 1d6/3HD." -> By the 1d6?
"successfully affected automatically" -> redundant. If they're affected, it's a given that it's successful.
Weakening aura seems way too strong, considering the size and the breadth of the debuff you're applying, and the fact that it's unavoidable.

Cloaker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10126561&postcount=23)
Looking pretty good

Vivisector (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10126561&postcount=23)
Not sure what changes have been made (no changelog?), but it hasn't come up in recent critiques, so I'll just raise it for comment next time I suggest monsters for Gorgondantess to review.

Razor Boar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10227868&postcount=139)
Note recommended changes here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10351158&postcount=434).

Black Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10246297&postcount=149)
Note recommended changes here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10246297&postcount=149)

Ettercap (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10249821&postcount=151)
Needs to account for suggestions on page 7 onward, in the thread.

Skeroloth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10253686&postcount=172)
Ok, didn't have many comments last time I looked it over, and you've updated since. Will point Gorgondantess to it.

Lodestone Marauder (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10262500&postcount=196)
Changelog is kind of a wall of text. hard to read. Let's see...
Ok, looks like you put my suggestions into effect. I'll point Gorgondantess to it.

Locathah (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10265374&postcount=217)
Think it looks good to go on the list. Anything you want to ask or add, before I do?

Hellfire Wyrm (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10271903&postcount=254)
Just curious - are you interested in doing this or should I move it to abandoned? IIRC, I suggested you give it a pic, and then I'd review it. No pic yet?

Marrash (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10308045&postcount=324)
Looks like you put my changes into effect, will point Gorgondantess to it.

Corrupted Creature (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10331050&postcount=365)
Hasn't put any suggested changes/revisions into effect, no poster activity as of late.

Medusa (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10343087&postcount=418)
Can't critique my own work. Will point Gorgondantess to it. Other critiques much appreciated.

Aboleth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10367328&postcount=473)
You've got this absolutely massive skill list (Forgery? Why?) but no skill points to spend. it's bizarre.
Bonus skill points in amphibious path seem kind of off.
practices it's magic -> doesn't make sense. Practices it has magic? Practices it is magic? Its.
The various paths don't match up. Like, you get a combat useful passive bonus in amphibious path at 3rd stage, but in aquatic path you just get more swimming.
"and it's thick skin gives it DR 5/Magic." -> doesn't make sense. and it has thick skin gives it DR 5/magic? and it is thick skin gives it DR 5/magic? its.
And DR should scale.
You probably mean demoralize check, for the Stygian Path IV ability.
"It can, for Cha Mod rounds per day, can make any creature it flies over make a Fort Save or be affected as if it were hit by one of your tentacle attacks" -> you switch tenses here.
Just as Planned -> Don't like the flavor text. It seems more goofy than "I'm a terrible abomination of reality". Reword/reflavor?
The cumulative conditions of Just as Planned? No.
Also, duration?
Ability increases: -> this belongs further up the monster entry. Usually after {Monster} Body.
Don't really get forbidden dreaming. Just a way to get healed out of combat?
Convert the Flesh -> As with disease, this is a horrible thing to be affected by as a PC, but it's pretty lame against monsters.
Don't like the word 'bigger' at the end of Endless Growth.
Drowning Ooze: Suffocation rules suck. That is, they're useless and no enemy is going to suffocate before combat is over. Also, the ability description implies it works underwater only, but you don't say this.
Enslaving creatures is problematic for a PC. What happens if you enslave wizards or beholders... aren't you just getting cohorts, tons of actions in combat?
Infinite waterfall of crushing memories: Ability name is awkward and a mouthful. How many targets with each use? Who takes the 2 points of wis damage?
Also, a save or lose effect you can use every round?
Needs some work.

Mystic Muse
2011-02-17, 10:32 PM
Hellfire Wyrm (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10271903&postcount=254)
Just curious - are you interested in doing this or should I move it to abandoned? IIRC, I suggested you give it a pic, and then I'd review it. No pic yet?


Apologies. A lot of things have been distracting me, and now my computer is the only functioning one in the household. I'll get a photo ASAP.

Hyudra
2011-02-17, 10:43 PM
Apologies. A lot of things have been distracting me, and now my computer is the only functioning one in the household. I'll get a photo ASAP.

No worries. Was just wondering. I know you had made noises about maybe abandoning it, but wasn't sure.

Mystic Muse
2011-02-17, 10:54 PM
Picture has been added.

Gorgondantess
2011-02-17, 11:02 PM
Things to critique:
Skeroloth
Lodestone Marauder
Marrash
& Medusa.
I'll get right on that... likely late tomorrow, or saturday.
Locathah: I believe I've said about 2 or 3 times already, "Yeah, it's done, just put it on the list it's a friggin' one level class.":smalltongue:
Anyways, I'm in something of a rut design wise, so I'll make the next less-than-CR 10 monster someone asks me to just to get back into the swing of things. I wonder how many people are even going to read this post, as well. Their loss, I suppose.

Lord_Gareth
2011-02-17, 11:03 PM
Gorgon, would you feel like taking up Illurien?

Gorgondantess
2011-02-18, 12:12 AM
Gorgon, would you feel like taking up Illurien?

Is Illurien a CR 10 or less monster?:smalltongue:
No, I would not. Maybe if it's just sitting there and not doing anything I'll take it up eventually, but the idea is that I want to tackle something smaller.

Mystic Muse
2011-02-18, 12:29 AM
Is Illurien a CR 10 or less monster?:smalltongue:
No, I would not. Maybe if it's just sitting there and not doing anything I'll take it up eventually, but the idea is that I want to tackle something smaller.

Is there a specific kind of monster you want to create if possible or just anything?

Gorgondantess
2011-02-18, 12:33 AM
Is there a specific kind of monster you want to create if possible or just anything?

No. Just anything. Something that'll make somebody happy. Something I can sink my teeth into.

NineThePuma
2011-02-18, 12:34 AM
Monstrous Spider.

Ready? Go.

Gorgondantess
2011-02-18, 12:35 AM
Monstrous Spider.

Ready? Go.

Doesn't count.:smalltongue:
Also, I'd have to make a progression up to colossal which is a CR 11 monster.

Mystic Muse
2011-02-18, 12:44 AM
Saguaro sentinel from Sandstorm? It's CR 9.

Gorgondantess
2011-02-18, 12:44 AM
Saguaro sentinel from Sandstorm? It's CR 9.

Can do.:smallcool:

NineThePuma
2011-02-18, 01:06 AM
Formian Warrior? =3

Frog Dragon
2011-02-18, 09:12 AM
I heavily overhauled the mezzo a bit back, and the abilities need more looking through again.

The Winter King
2011-02-18, 09:21 AM
Phase Wasp
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mm2_gallery/88268_620_99.jpg

Hit Die: d6
{table=head] Level |
BAB |
Fort |
Ref |
Will | Special
1st |
+0 |
+0 |
+2 |
+0 | Phase Wasp Body, Killer Bee, Dex +1
2nd |
+1 |
+0 |
+3 |
+0 | Phase Powers, Buzz Song, Dex +1 [/table]
Skill Points: (4 + Int modifier) per level, x4 at first level.
Class Skills: The Phase Wasp’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Hide (Dex), Listen (Wis), Knowledge (architecture and engineering, geography, nature) (Int), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), and Survival (Wis).

Proficiencies: The Phase Wasp is proficient only with its sting.

Attribute Bonus: The Phase Wasp gains +1 Dex at each level, for a total of +2 Dex at 2nd level.

Phase Wasp Body: At first level, the Phase Wasp (hereafter simply the Wasp) loses all other racial bonuses and becomes a Magical Beast. It gains Magical Beast traits, granting it Low-Light Vision and 60' Darkvision. Wasps are initially Tiny sized creatures with a base land speed of 10' and the ability to hover within 5' of the ground at a speed of 30'. At 5HD, the Wasp gains a fly speed of 60' (perfect maneuverability). While hovering or flying, a Wasp's wings vibrate loudly, imposing a -4 penalty to Hide and Move Silently checks. Wasps lack the ability to perform fine manipulation (including wielding weapons), but possess a Sting as a primary natural attack that deals 1d4 + Str modifier piercing damage and Natural Armor equal to 1 + 1/2 their Con modifier. A Wasp has Common and Buzz as starting languages, with additional languages for a high Int score as normal. However, due to the construction of their mouthparts, Wasps can only speak certain insectile languages such as Thri-Kreen and Buzz. They may understand and read other languages, but not speak them. Those who spend at least a week in the Wasp's company can learn to understand its body language and chirps enough that the they can understand simple expressions such as 'danger', 'follow', 'gratitude' and so on. (It is also not uncommon for a Phase Wasp's companions to learn Buzz to facilitate more complex communication.)

Killer Bee(Ex): A Phase Wasp is an angry little sucker. A Wasp does not provoke attacks of opportunity for entering an opponent's space, and may end its movement in a space occupied by another creature (unless this would be impossible, as in the case of a Gelatinous Cube). Creatures leaving a space shared with a Wasp provoke an attack of opportunity.
At 3HD a Wasp can choose to use an immediate action to move with a creature that it is sharing a space with, up to a maximum of 5' per 2 HD. At 9HD it can move the full distance the creature it is sharing a space with moves.

Phase Powers(Sp): At level 2, a Phase Wasp can cast magic missile once every 1d4 rounds. This is exactly like the spell, except that the number of missiles is not capped. At 4, 8, and 12 HD, the time the phase wasp must wait between uses decreases by one round, to a minimum of one round at 12HD.

At 3HD, a Phase Wasp gains the benefits of a constant see invisibility spell. It may see ethereal creatures and objects as if they were merely invisible. At 16HD, this ability improves, granting the Phase Wasp the benefits of a constant true seeing spell.

Buzz Song: Once per day per 2 HD, the Wasp may produce a buzzing drone that increases the productivity of its allies. All friendly creatures that can hear the Buzz Song gain a +1 morale bonus on skill checks, attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws. These bonuses stack with those provided by bardic music. Starting or maintaining a Buzz Song requires a standard action. The Wasp can maintain a Buzz Song as long as she spends this action every round. If the Wasp possesses the Bardic Music ability, Wasp levels stack with Bard levels to determine uses per day of Bardic Music abilities, the effectiveness of those abilities, and access to new Bardic Music abilities. A Wasp may begin or maintain a Buzz Song and Bardic Music with the same action.

At 8HD, the morale bonus from Buzz Song improves to +2, and maintaining the Buzz Song only requires a move action.

Changelog:Added speach/fine manipulation (mostly by copying from Hyudra's basilisk, never did a non communicator before)
2/24: Added Killer Bee, made Phase Power useable more often, and added Buzz Song with Bard synergy
3/1: Grammar fixes, added Hide/Move Silently penalties, reduced Killer Bee movement until 9HD, reduced NA, HD, and gave SR
3/7: Proofread by Psyborg. Spelling, grammar, punctuation, and formatting corrected. In addition, the following non-trivial changes were made: Attribute Bonus was missing entirely, and was added. Phase Powers: "...the number of missiles are not limited by Caster Level." changed to "the number of missiles is not capped.", which seemed to be the intended meaning. (The other possibility is that the number of missiles is not dependent on Caster Level, in which case the number of missiles would need to be specified.) Phase Powers: The reduction in the delay time for Magic Missile was rewritten for clarity, and a minimum one-round delay was added to line up with perceived intent. Significant portions of Buzz Song were rewritten for clarity. Since the perceived intent was to stack fully where Bardic Music was concerned, Phase Wasp levels now stack with Bard levels for determining the effectiveness of BM abilities, as well as access to new BM abilities and BM uses per day.

Frog Dragon
2011-02-18, 10:12 AM
I found that Volt accidentally necroed an old thread about this instead of posting here when he made the Violet Fungus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10400070&postcount=1481).

Volthawk
2011-02-18, 10:17 AM
Violet Fungus
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG112.jpg

HD:d8
{TABLE]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
1| +0| +2|+0 |+0| Violet Fungus body, Breakdown, Poison, Con+1
2| +1| +3|+0 |+0| Fungal Diversity, Plant Communication
3| +2| +3|+1 |+1| Fungal Diversity, Dire Tentacles, Improved Breakdown, Con+1[/TABLE]
Skills: 2+int modifier per level, quadruple at first level. Class skills are Hide, Knowledge (nature), Listen, Spot, Survival

Proficiencies: The Violet Fungus is proficient with their own natural weapons, but not with manufactured weapons or any armour

Features:
Violet Fungus body: At first level, the Violet Fungus loses all other racial bonuses, and gains plant traits (primarily low-light vision), a base speed of 20 feet and a natural armor bonus equal to his own Con modifier. It is Medium sized, and has 2 tentacle attacks, each dealing 1d6 base damage. It gains another tentacle for every 3HD it has. It lacks fine manipulation, and although it does not speak, those who spend at least a week in the fungus' company can learn to understand its body language enough that the player can understand simple expressions such as 'danger', 'hate', 'gratitude' and so on.

Ability score increase: The Violet Fungus gains +1 Con at first and third level.

Poison (Ex): The Violet Fungus' tentacles inflict poison, dealing initial and secondary damage as shown in the following table. The Fortitude save against the poison is 10+1/2HD+Con mod.


{table=head]HD|Initial Damage (Str)|Secondary Damage (Str)|Initial Damage (Con)|Secondary Damage (Con)
1|1d3|1d4|-|-
3|1d4|1d4|-|-
6|1d4|1d6|1d3|1d4
9|1d6|1d6|1d4|1d4
12|1d6|1d8|1d4|1d6
15|1d8|1d8|1d6|1d6
18|1d8|2d6|1d6|1d8[/table]

Breakdown (Ex): The Violet Fungus does not eat as most creatures do. Instead, it breaks down organic matter. This form of consumption means that the Violet Fungus doesn't need to breathe, and has a bonus to saves against poison equal to 1+1/4HD. To avoid starvation/thirst (the Fungus only takes 1d6 nonlethal damage for every time it fails its save), the Violet Fungus must break down two pounds of organic matter (plant matter counts as half). This takes ten minutes per pound of matter broken down.

Fungal Diversity (Ex): Fungi are diverse, and Violet Fungi are no exception. At second and third level, as well as every 5HD, the Violet Fungus can choose an option from the following list.


Capturing Tentacles: The Violet Fungus' tentacles are more adept at grappling, giving the Fungus the Improved Grab quality. Creatures grappled by the Fungus are more quickly exposed to the its poison, meaning they have to save against the poison (as if they had been struck by one of the Violet Fungus' tentacles) every two rounds.
Consuming Tentacles (requires Capturing Tentacles): When the Violet Fungus grapples a creature, its poison deals an extra 1 Constitution damage. If the victim is immune to poison, it still has to make a Fortitude save (DC 10+1/2HD+Con mod) to avoid taking the Constitution damage. This counts as half a pound of matter for the Fungus' Breakdown ability, and heals the Fungus by an amount equal to the victim's HD. If the Fungus has Improved Breakdown, the bonuses last for a number of rounds equal to 1/3 the Fungus' HD.
Hooked Tentacles (requires Capturing Tentacles): The Violet Fungus gains the Constrict ability, allowing it to deal damage equal to the damage its tentacles deal with a successful grapple check.
Poison Spores: Once a day, the Violet Fungus can release a cloud of spores out to 5ft for every HD it has, forcing all within the area to make a save against its poison as if it had been hit by the Fungus' tentacle. The cloud linger for a number of rounds equal to half the Violet Fungus' HD. The Fungus gains another use for every 5HD it possesses. Creatures can be rendered immune to this effect by consuming small amounts of the Violet Fungus' poison regularly. The doses are small enough to have no effect other than fatiguing the consumer, and after a week of this, the consumer is immune to the cloud.
Poison Quickening: Once a day, the Violet Fungus can make the poison it delivers work faster, meaning the victim makes the save against the secondary effects on the next round. The Fungus gains another use for every 5HD it possesses.
Rapid Poison (requires Poison Quickening): The period until Violet Fungus' poison makes the victim save against secondary damage reduces by a number of rounds equal to the Fungus' HD divided by 3.
Repeat Poison (requires Poison Quickening): A minute after the Violet Fungus' poison inflicts its secondary damage, the victim has to save again or take the secondary damage again.
Resilient Fungus: The Violet Fungus gains +1 hp for every HD it has, Endurance as a bonus feat, and needs half as much matter to survive. Additionally, the Violet Fungus' bonus to saves against poison doubles and applies to disease, gaining immunity to poison and disease at 10HD.
Tough Fungus (requires Resilient Fungus): The Violet Fungus gains a +1 bonus to natural armour, increasing by +1 for every 4HD it possesses, as well as DR/slashing equal to half its HD.
Fatiguing Poison (requires 3HD): The Violet Fungus' poison now also fatigues the target. Multiple poisonings do not advance this further.
Knockout Poison: (requires Fatiguing Poison): If a creature fails its save against the secondary damage of Violet Fungus' poison, it falls asleep for a number of hours equal half the Fungus' HD.
Paralytic Poison (requires Fatiguing Poison): If a creature fails its save against the primary damage of the Violet Fungus' poison, it becomes paralyzed for a number of rounds equal half the Fungus' HD.


Plant Communication (Ex): At second level, the Violet Fungus can communicate with other creatures of the Plant type within 10ft per HD as if it had telepathy, through chemicals produced by the plants. The Violet Fungus also has a form of Wild Empathy, working only on plants that it can use this ability to communicate with, using the Violet Fungus' HD and its Con modifier.

Dire Tentacles (Ex): At third level, the damage die of Violet Fungus' tentacles increases by one step. Additionally, the tentacles' reach increases by 5ft. At 10HD and 20HD, the damage increases by another step, and the reach increases by 5ft.

Improved Consumption (Ex): At third level, the Violet Fungus can break down non-organic material for consumption. However, non-organic matter counts for half the amount consumed. It also gets greater sustenance from living flesh, gaining an enhancement bonus to Strength and Constitution equal to half the Violet Fungus' HD, lasting for a number of minutes ten times the amount consumed in pounds (multiple 'meals' add to this duration, although the bonuses do not stack).


Comments:
Well, for this class I decided to focus on the tentacles, making them scale, as does the poison they deliver, to compensate for the lack of hands. I used the Purple Worm's communication idea. I made it so they break down organic matter as a way of eating, as it says in the fluff, and also gave them a way of communicating with other plants, based on the way they work with Shriekers.

Changelog:
24/02/11: Changed the poison to scale better with HD, moved it to first level, added Fungal Diversity, changed Organic Breakdown and Non-organic Breakdown to Breakdown and Improved Breakdown, upped tentacle damage

Hyudra
2011-02-18, 11:48 AM
Welcome back, Volt.

Psyborg
2011-02-18, 01:14 PM
Phase Wasp doesn't specify fine manipulation or speech. Otherwise, looks good to me.

The Winter King
2011-02-18, 03:55 PM
Now it does. And I added a feat that might be useful to it and others like it

Kobold-Bard
2011-02-18, 04:41 PM
Rast

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG213.jpg

Class:
Hit Dice: d8
{table]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1|+0|+0|+2|+0|Rast Body, Claws, Claws Everywhere!
2|+1|+0|+3|+0|Deflect Arrows, Latch On
3|+2|+1|+3|+1|Pyrology, +1 Str
4|+3|+1|+4|+1|Paralyzing Gaze, +1 Cha
5|+3|+1|+4|+1|Blood Drain, Burning Nature, +1 Str[/table]
Class Skills 4+Int Mod (x4 at 1st level): Balance, Climb, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Spot

Proficiencies: Rasts are proficient with their natural weapons only.

Class Features:

Rast Body (Ex): At first level the Rast loses all racial traits & features, and gains Outsider Features. It is Native to the Elemental Plane of Fire and receives the Extraplanar Subtype when elsewhere. It also has the Fire Subtype. Unlike most Outsiders, it may be resurrected as normal as long as the effect is utilised on a Fire aligned Plane.

It receives a Natural armour bonus equal to its Con Modifier and is Medium size.
Though it has between 10 & 15 claws, most are used in it's unusual flight style to keep itself balanced whilst in midair, amongst other things. As such at 1HD it has only a single primary claw attack that deals 1d4+1/2 Str mod & a secondary bite that deals 1d8+Str Mod. Every 6HD it gains better control and can use another Primary claw attack.

It has a land speed of 20ft/round. It may "swim" through the air, effectively giving it a fly speed of 5ft/round for each HD it has, but until 5HD it must always end it's turn on a solid surface or take appropriate falling damage. At 5HD it may fly indefinitely at Average manoeuvrability, becoming Good at 10HD.

The Rast gains stat boosts as shown on the table above.

Claws, Claws Everywhere! (Ex): The Rast's claws are razor sharp. And there are a lot of them. This fact grants the Rast a bonus on Intimidate checks equal to 1/2 their HD (minimum 1).

In addition they may make an Intimidate check as a move action; if this check beats the target's Sense Motive check they may utilise a rapid slashing of their many claws to keep an opponent within 5ft/HD of them off guard and treat that target as flat-footed & flanked by the Rast until the end of the Rast's next turn.

The rast may only affect 1 target at a time. If a target beats the Rast's check or sees the Rast take damage whilst using this technique they are immune to further uses until 24 hours have passed.

Deflect Arrows (Ex): The Rast's many claws mean it can create a web of limbs to repel incoming projectiles. It gains the Deflect Arrows Feat, even if it does not meet the pre-requisites. It may deflect 1 arrow/round for each primary claw attack it has access to.

Latch On (Ex): The Rast is essentially a giant, magical tick. From 2nd level if the Rast successfully damages a target with it's claw attack it may automatically make a grapple check against it's target at the end of it's attacks, gaining a +2 bonus for every additional natural attack that hits in the same turn. If the grapple check is successful the Rast digs it's claws into it's foe.

As long as it remains latched the Rast makes it very difficult for the target to do anything; it's land speed is reduced by half and it cannot burrow, fly or swim. It suffers a 5%/Rast's HD chance to fumble any action it tries to take (even purely mental ones), though resources/uses of abilities are not wasted if they do fumble.

The target may make a new grapple check (the Rast retains it's aforementioned bonuses) as a move action each round to break free.

Pyrology (Su): Rasts originate from the Plane of Fire, and flame flows through them like blood flows through a Human. They may unleash a blast as a standard action that deals 1d6/2HD fire damage. Each time they use this ability they may choose the way the fire manifests:

A 10ft/HD ranged touch attack.
a 5ft/HD radius burst (that affects allies as well as enemies)


In addition magical fire damage (except that created by themselves) heals them rather than being negated as normal for creatures with the Fire Subtype. None magical fire heals 1HP/round up to half the Rast's maximum HP.

Paralyzing Gaze (Su): At 3rd level, as an attack action the Rast can make a Gaze attack at any creature with 30ft of itself. An affected target must make a Fort Save (DC 10+1/2HD+Cha Mod) or be afflicted by the appropriate effect based on the Rast's HD:

{table]Rast's HD|Effect
3-10|Shaken for 1d6 rounds
11-17|Paralyzed for 1d6 rounds
18+|Stunned for 1d3 rounds[/table]

If the Rast has iterative attacks it may use this ability multiple times/round. After using it's Paralyzing Gaze the Rast is unable to use it again for 1d6 rounds. At 11HD the wait time is reduced to 1d4 rounds & at 20HD it may use it every round.

Blood Drain (Ex): Every round after the first that the Rast is Latched On to a target it suffers 1 point of Constitution damage (Fort DC 10+1/2HD+Cha Mod to negate). If the target has no Con score the damage is to it's Dex instead.

Targets that suffer at least one point of stat damage from this ability are fatigued for 1d4 rounds after the Rast releases it's grip.

Burning Nature (Su): 1/day for each HD it has, the Rast may cause its Pyrology fire blasts to ignore 15 points of fire resistance & creatures with Fire Immunity may suffer up to 15 damage or the damage rolled, whichever is lower.

Further, 1/day for every 6HD it has, as a full round action the Rast may transport itself to the Plane of Fire, and back again with another full round action. The Plane of Fire's inherent environment is considered none magical fire for the purposes of the Rast's Pyrology healing.



Comments:
The Rast, a sort of floating, firey tick.

It's a bit boring, but I wasn't really sure what to do with it (I'm open to suggestions). It felt like the right way to continue my sort of niche of weird stuff no one asked for or will ever play.

Hyudra
2011-02-18, 04:51 PM
As spelling errors take an inordinate amount of time to point out compared to what they take to fix, I'm going to tell you guys, especially in light of this batch of new monsters, to please spell check. If I go to critique and find two or more spelling errors, I'm going to stop right there and tell you to spellcheck, and get back to it the next time I do a batch critique - a week or two later.

Some spelling errors are forgivable, in light that not everyone has a high school education and/or they speak English as a second language - so making a mistake like getting two very similar words mixed up isn't going to count against you. Other errors, like your standard spellcheckers not knowing that Rast is a word, are also allowable, obviously.

That said, I do expect you guys to make a good faith attempt to self-critique your own work before asking others (me) to look it over for you. There are addons and/or options for any self respecting web browser (Firefox, Chrome) that will automatically spellcheck any text entry forms in the internet window (I use this. Gives me squiggly red lines under any misspelled words). Failing that, you can copy-paste your work into a word document and spell check there.

Thank you. This message brought to you by "Paralysing Gaze".

Kobold-Bard
2011-02-18, 04:57 PM
...

Thank you. This message brought to you by "Paralysing Gaze".

That's right according to my spell-checking in Chrome. I would check in Word but my computer has decided I don't deserve the right to access it at the moment. Consider it changed. Oh my God, its finally fixed! And it says both are right. Personally I prefer the "s" version rather than "z", but if you say so.

Also:


...

Quasi-God (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10077255&postcount=719)
No changelog? I weep! :smallfrown:

[B]Yeah, forgot it, and there didn't seem much point after I'd already made a dozen edits.

"1/day for every 2HD the Quasi-God may heal or repair (for constructs) a creature (including yourself) by the 1d6/3HD." -> By the 1d6?

"By 1d6". I have no idea where that came from.

"successfully affected automatically" -> redundant. If they're affected, it's a given that it's successful.

Removed.

Weakening aura seems way too strong, considering the size and the breadth of the debuff you're applying, and the fact that it's unavoidable.

You get a Fort Save for half, I figured that since it's the bulk of your ability making it negate was a bit weak. Though I may be horribly wrong there.

...

Updated barring Aura, waiting to find out if I am indeed horribly wrong about it.

Volthawk
2011-02-18, 05:12 PM
Paralyse can be spelt with both an 's' or 'z', like 'colour' or 'color'.

Hyudra
2011-02-18, 05:25 PM
Pah. European spellings. That slippery slope leads to madness: honour and lifts and lorries and mayonnaise on chips.

The Tygre
2011-02-18, 05:39 PM
And spelling Armor Class as 'Armour Class', and Color Spray as 'Colour Spray'! Damn you, Mongoose Publishing! You did this to me!

Lix Lorn
2011-02-18, 06:20 PM
And spelling Armor Class as 'Armour Class', and Color Spray as 'Colour Spray'! Damn you, Mongoose Publishing! You did this to me!
RESISTANCE IS FUTILE. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED. WE WILL ADD YOUR BIOLOGICAL AND TECHNOLOGICAL DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN.
ALTHOUGH NOT THE LINGUISTIC. :smalltongue:

Anyway, yes. Spelling is important. It looks neater and it stops the really easily annoyed people from getting annoyed.

Gorgondantess
2011-02-18, 06:24 PM
Paralyze should be spelled with a Z. The Z is cool.

Hyudra
2011-02-18, 06:47 PM
RESISTANCE IS FUTILE. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED. WE WILL ADD YOUR BIOLOGICAL AND TECHNOLOGICAL DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN.
ALTHOUGH NOT THE LINGUISTIC. :smalltongue:

Anyway, yes. Spelling is important. It looks neater and it stops the really easily annoyed people from getting annoyed.

Easily annoyed people? Naw, nobody like that here. :smallbiggrin:

Lord_Gareth
2011-02-18, 07:33 PM
Okay then. Apparently Illurien has been abandoned. I shall now go cry in a corner.

(In unrelated news, has anyone gone through the backs of the Completes? I know that CWar had a few monsters that were semi-interesting.)

Hyudra
2011-02-18, 08:30 PM
Just do the Illurien yourself, if you want it that badly.

Saidoro
2011-02-18, 09:30 PM
Changes to Razor Boar as per Hyudra's recommendations


February 18
Added speech and fine manipulation to rb body
Surge of Force now has HD+4 uses/day
Numerous small spelling/grammar changes

I chose to have the surge of force and similar have limited uses per day because the Boar doesn't really feel like the sort of skilled combatant normally represented by that mechanic, it's a barbarian, not a fighter. Yes, it doesn't have many abilities at low levels and it has a lot at high levels, but I don't see that as a huge problem.
The boar still needs abilities for levels 8 and 5, if you have any suggestions please post them. If you don't, I'll probably come up with something eventually.
Also, I apologize for all the spelling/grammar errors.

Hyudra
2011-02-18, 11:52 PM
Monstrous Spider
http://i54.tinypic.com/2801ikh.jpg
Monster Class
Monster Manual, SRD

Class
HD: D6

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will |Special
1st|+0|+2|+2|+0| Spider Body, Bugbite, Web, +1 Dex
2nd|+1|+3|+3|+0| Silk Strand, Evasion, +1 Str, +1 Con
3rd|+2|+3|+3|+1| Arachnophobia I, Web Spinner, +1 Dex, +1 Con
4th|+3|+4|+4|+1| Growth, Skitter, +1 Str, +1 Dex
5th|+3|+4|+4|+1| Silk Skein, +1 Str, +1 Con
6th|+4|+5|+5|+2| Spiderbite, Uncanny Dodge, +1 Dex, +1 Con
7th|+5|+5|+5|+2| Growth II, Arachnophobia II, +1 Str, +1 Dex
8th|+6|+6|+6|+2| Weaver, Twitchleap, +1 Str, +1 Con
9th|+6|+6|+6|+3| Silk Lattice, +1 Dex, +1 Con
10th|+7|+7|+7|+3| Growth III, Eerie Chitter, +1 Str, +1 Dex
11th|+8|+7|+7|+3| Arachnid's Bite, Arachnophobia, +1 Str, +1 Con[/table]
Skill Points 4+Int per level
Class Skills: Climb, Balance, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Spot, Survival, Tumble, Use Rope.

Proficiencies: The Spider is proficient only with its own natural attacks.

Spider Body: The Monstrous Spider, hereafter referred to as the Spider, loses all other racial bonuses and gains traits of the Vermin type, granting her Darkvision 60'. Spiders are initially small sized creatures with a base movement speed of 30' and a climb speed of 20', possessing a bite attack that delivers 1d4 + Str mod damage and a poison, described in bugbite, below. The Spider has natural armor equal to its Con mod.

Spiders do not speak. Those who spend at least a week in the Spider's company can learn to understand her body language and chittering enough to understand simple expressions such as 'danger', 'hate', 'gratitude' and the like. Spiders lack fine manipulation, but do have the ability to pick up one item and carry it, pull levers, and perform other simple actions (but still lack the ability to perform complex or delicate actions like wielding a weapon or taking an item in or out of a saddlebag).

Attribute Bonus: The Spider gains a bonus to Dexterity at every level except 2nd, 5th, 8th and 11th. They gain a bonus to Strength at every level except 1st, 3rd, 6th and 9th. They gain a bonus to Constitution at every level except 1st, 4th, 7th and 10th. This adds up to a total bonus of +7 Str, +7 Dex and +7 Con at 11th level.

Bugbite: The first level Spider sports a venomous bite. The nature of the venom depends on the Spider. In any event, the poison allows a Fortitude save, with a DC of 10 + ½ Spider HD + Spider's Con. On a failed saving throw, the victim takes attribute damage based on the Spider's HD as described on the table below:

{table=head]HD|Initial Damage (Str or Dex)|Secondary Damage (Str or Dex)|Initial Damage (Con)|Secondary Damage (Con)
1|1d4|1d4|1d3|1d4
3|1d4|1d6|1d4|1d4
6|1d6|1d6|1d4|1d6
9|1d6|1d8|1d6|1d6
12|1d8|2d6|1d6|1d8
15|2d6|2d6|1d8|2d6
18|2d6|3d6|2d6|2d6[/table]
At first level, the Spider picks a physical attribute: Strength, Dexterity or Constitution. The poison deals ability damage to this attribute. At later levels, this poison can be enhanced with options chosen from Spiderbite and Arachnid Bite, with further possible options being included on the Arachnophobia lists.

Web: The Monstrous Spider is notorious for the webs she uses to trap and entangle her foes. The spider regains one web use an hour, to a maximum number of stored uses equal to the Spider's HD or its Con mod, whichever is lower. Each time the Spider grows a size category, the maximum number of web uses is increased by 50%. This increase is additive, not cumulative, as detailed on the table below:

{table=head]Size|Maximum Web Uses Stored
Small|Equal to HD or Con, whichever is lower.
Medium|Equal to 1.5x HD or 1.5x Con mod, whichever is lower.
Large|Equal to 2x HD or 2x Con mod, whichever is lower.
Huge|Equal to 2.5x HD or 2.5x Con mod, whichever is lower.
Gargantuan|Equal to 3x HD or 3x Con mod, whichever is lower.
Colossal|Equal to 3.5x HD or 3.5x Con mod, whichever is lower.[/table]
The Spider may shoot webbing at a foe up to one size category larger than her as a standard action. This spends one stored use of webbing and has a range increment of 10', to a maximum of five range increments. As the spider advances, the range increments increase in range by 5' per 5HD. Web is a ranged touch attack that entangles the target on a hit, much in the same manner as a net. Entangled creatures are entangled until they can, as a standard action, make a successful Strength or Escape Artist check (DC 10 + ½ Spider's HD + Spider's Con mod).

A strand with a base AC of 15 extends between the victim and the Spider, which can be cut with a slashing weapon by any non-entangled individual within reach. The strand has the consistency and thickness of rope, but its strength increases to be on par with stone or steel as the Spider gains develops. The strand has hardness equal to the Spider's HD (to a maximum of twice Spider's Con mod), and 2 hp per HD of the Spider. Cutting this strand does not free the victim from the entangled status, but it does disconnect the victim from the Spider, which may spare the victim some grief. As the Spider controls the length of the strand, the affected victim may not move beyond the limits of the Strand's length (which is whatever the distance between victim and Spider was when they were ensnared) unless they best the Spider in a Strength check, in which case they move half speed, dragging the Spider behind them. The Spider is similarly restricted in movement, but the Spider can disconnect the strand as a free action, and may thus avoid being dragged or free herself to move beyond the strand's limits by disconnecting herself if she so wishes.

For example, Muffet is a Monstrous Spider who successfully hits a hapless commoner, Brandon, with her webs from 20' away. Brandon may not move into any square more than 20' away from Muffet unless he makes and succeeds in an opposed Strength check. Succeeding in his strength check, he manages to drag himself 15', half his movement allowance of 30'. However, as he drags the spider behind himself, he fails to create a gap between himself and the vicious spider that seeks to devour him.
A Spider may only have a strand attached to one target at a given point in time. Spiders are immune to the movement impairing and entangling effects of all webs, be they natural or magically created.

Silk Strand: The second level Spider is adept at reeling in prey with its webbing and binding them. The Spider gains the following options when dealing with foes she has entangled with her webs:

Spiderbraid: The Spider may expend a web use to fashion 50' of rope. This is otherwise treated as silk rope, but given the apparent origins, it is questionable whether merchants will accept it for sale.

.
Ensnaring Strand: The Spider may, as a standard action, fire off a single strand of web as a touch attack, adhering to a struck target. Treat this as a successful hit with Web, above, except the target is not entangled. This has half again as much range of a typical web attack, rounding down where necessary. Unlike a Web attack, Ensnaring Strand only consumes a web use if the hit is successful.

.
Reel In: The Spider may make an opposed strength check against a foe she has a strand attached to. If she succeeds, the foe is dragged 5' towards the Spider, plus an additional 5' for every 2 points the foe failed the Strength check. This takes up any slack in the webbing, setting the strand's length to the distance between the target and the Spider, with foes rendered unable to move further away from the Spider without making a Strength check (see Web, above, for more details on webs and limited range of movement). If the spider is above the foe, and the foe cannot move horizontally to get closer to the spider (by virtue of being directly under it or hanging from a strand that is trailing off a ledge) then the foe is lifted up. If this breaks the foe's contact with the ground and the foe cannot fly, they are suspended. The suspended state translates to the foe being immobilized (unable to move from their current position) and flat footed until freed (or until they free themselves), and they hang in the air, moving when the Spider moves (typically directly below her, but they may be raised or lowered, or move alongside her, depending on their position relative to hers).

The Spider can only suspend foes that she could otherwise lift. She cannot use Reel In to lift opponents off the ground if such would render her overly encumbered. If an opponent falls off a ledge, reaching the end of the strand's slack, and is too heavy for her to lift, she may either cut the strand and let them fall or be dragged off the ledge behind them.

.
Let Slack: The Spider lets the webbing loose to fall to the ground. She gives the victim anywhere from 5' to 15' of extra length to work with, effectively adding to their (and her own) range of movement. For those hanging suspended, this lowers them toward the ground. Until the target or the spider take up the slack again (moving to the limits of the strand's length), the strand cannot be effectively severed by anyone but the Spider. This is an immediate action.

Alternately, the Spider can fix herself to an object, a section of web, a wall or the ceiling and lower herself up to 15' as a move action. The Spider is flat footed in this state, but gains a bonus equal to ½ her HD to her Move Silently checks while approaching someone in this fashion.

.
Attach: The Spider attaches the web strand to an object. The Spider attaches the web strand to an object. Using this ability is a swift action that may be performed in the middle of a move action. A victim that wishes to move no longer makes an opposed Strength check against the Spider, but a Strength check to snap the strand (DC 10 + 1½ Spider's HD + Spider's Con mod) or pull the object the strand is attached to (DC dependent on the nature and weight of the object).

.
Bind: The Spider creates slack in the webbing and loops it around an already ensnared target, trapping them under layers of the webbing. This is performed in the same manner as a use of Web, above, and consumes a use of webbing if successful. Rather than entangle the opponent, the Bind technique imposes a -2 penalty to Str and a -2 penalty to Dex for the bound foe, and lowers all of their movement speeds by 5' or 25% (rounding down to the nearest multiple of 5), whichever is more. Further, if the bound opponent is adjacent to an object which one could reach around if they so wished (the spider doesn't have to be that close, but she should be able to send slack strands more or less around the object) weave around or attach the strands to (such as a tree, a pillar, a rock, a statue), the entangled opponent is immobilized until they free themselves. This may be applied multiple times, and the penalties are cumulative. If the foe frees themselves from the entanglement, they also strip themselves free of the layers of binding.

A Spider that devours a bound foe or the discarded webbing left behind when a foe freed themselves also digests sufficient proteins from web and/or victim to regain one web usage for every two that were used to bind the target (including the initial use of web to ensnare them). This is a standard action.

Evasion: The senses and reflexes of the second level Spider are exceedingly fine tuned, with fine hairs on the Spider's body alerting her to the most subtle shifts in the air and the vermin's reflexes allowing a near instantaneous response to a sensed threat. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the Spider is unarmored and at less than medium encumbrance. A helpless Spider does not gain the benefit of evasion.

If a Spider already has evasion from a different source, she automatically gains improved evasion instead. If she already has that, she gains a bonus feat.

Arachnophobia I: The third level spider features a unique trait specific to her environment or her particular species of spider, rarely pleasant. See the lists below:

Pick One:
Enzyme: The Spider's poison contains digestive elements that eat flesh and dissolve more solid material, causing tissues to melt and blacken in much the same way as if it were rotting away or being digested. For every point of ability damage an opponent sustains from the Spider's poison, that opponent takes 1 point of necrosis damage. Necrosis damage is lethal damage, and the incredible agony combined with the scarring means the victim suffers a -1 penalty to either Wisdom and Charisma - whichever is higher - for each point of Necrosis damage (to a minimum of 1 Wis or 1 Cha). Necrosis damage (and the related penalties) can only be healed by natural rest, and only if the victim has healed both the poison and the ability damage sustained by the poison.

Creatures that are immune to poison or the ability damage nonetheless take 1 point of acid damage for every point of ability damage they would have taken.

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Brood Mother: The Spider carries egg sacs that she can inject with poison. Unwitting victims are in for a grim surprise when the poison sets in and the egg sacs hatch. As she delivers poison, she may inject eggs into a foe. The Spider retains enough eggs to do this once an hour. The Spider, by virtue of pheromones, remains acutely aware of the location of her young so long as they are within 60', and can thus track the location of the egg host or any hatched spiders within that range.

Should the victim fail the save against the secondary damage of the poison, a multitude of tiny spiders erupt from their body, exiting by way of the nearest orifice - typically the bite wound, but some are bound to travel in the blood stream or the like, making their departure by way of the nose, mouth, ears, tear duct or nether regions. One swarm appears in their space, and the victim takes 1d6 vile damage per 2HD of the Spider as a spider swarm emerges from their body.

This is effectively a Summon Swarm spell, summoning Spiders in the affected enemy's square, but is an extraordinary effect rather than a spell. The swarm does not attack the Spider or her close allies, as they detect pheromones that mark these individuals as family. The Swarm thereafter follows their mother for 1 hour per 5HD of the Spider, after which time most die of exposure, and the remainder scatter to the dark, moist corners of their current environment. The Spider can have a maximum number of swarms following her equal to 1/4 her HD. After the duration passes or the Spider acquires swarms beyond her maximum, become prey for local rats and birds. Even so, a small handful invariably survive and grow into Monstrous Spiders like their mother.

The Spider may devour one of her own swarms as a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity to regain a web use or to heal herself of 1d6 damage per 3HD.

For every 5HD the mother gains, one additional swarm is created from victims (damage dealt on emergence is only dealt once, not for every swarm created). The Mother is choosy about what prey are sufficient, and only living foes that would grant experience to the Spider qualify to feed her young (creatures with too low a CR will not allow young to reach maturation).

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Tarsus Impaler: The Spider gains two claw attacks as secondary weapons, each dealing only 1d2 + ½ Str mod piercing damage as a small creature (advance as normal with size categories).

However, a Spider that catches an opponent when they are not gaining their dexterity to armor class - by virtue of being denied dexterity to AC, such as by being flat footed, or due to the fact that their effective dexterity is too low to grant a positive bonus to AC - can attempt impaling the victim with the pointed end of her leg. This special 'Tarsus Impaler' attack is a full round action focused on a single claw attack (which remains a secondary attack) being used to deal 2d6 + 2x Str mod damage to a target victim that meets the requirements described above, with an additonal +1d6 damage for every size category the Spider is larger than small. Opponents who are struck in this manner are immobilized until the spider withdraws her leg from their body (a free action on the Spider's part) or they make a strength check to free themselves (DC 10 + ½ Spider's HD + Spider's Str mod).

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Razor Tangle: The taut line of the Spider's Web is akin to razor wire. An entangled opponent who fails a Strength check against the spider (such as in an attempt to move or an attempt to resist being dragged) or who fails to use escape artist to free himself from the web (Failed strength checks to free themselves are covered by the former case) sustains 1d6 slashing damage per 3HD of the spider. The hardness of the web increases by 50% (rounding down).

Web Spinner: Starting at third level, the Spider can spin sheets of webs. Spinning a web is a full round action that consumes one of the Spider's web uses and either covers 15' in tiles, +5' per size category of the Spider, or stretches between two points that the Spider moves between in a given round, to a maximum of 15' +5' per size category of the Spider. A Spider resting on an existing web may extend the perimeter by the same amount with another web usage and a full round action. After use, as an action taking one minute, the Spider can consume the softest parts of the web, regaining one web use for every two consumed in the web's production, destroying the web in the process. Creatures who approach the web must succeed on a Spot check (DC 10 + ½ Spider's HD + Spider's Dex mod) to notice the web.

Those who fail to notice the web are more likely to stumble into it. In any event, any individual that moves into the webbed spaces becomes entangled as though struck by a successful web attack, albeit with no strand connecting them to the Spider.

Growth: A fourth level Spider grows a size category, typically to medium size. Her reach, grapple modifiers, natural attack damage and skills change accordingly, but she doesn't gain any ability score bonuses or penalties.

Further, the Spider grows again at a later date. When she achieves 13HD, she grows another size category in the same fashion.

Skitter: The fourth level Spider is capable of moving across a variety of surfaces, including walls. She gains two mobility benefits:

The Spider can run and charge while climbing, and can segue between a climb and a run (to a maximum distance equal to double its climb speed) as part of a charge action. Changing the angle of the charge (ie. going from running on the ceiling to the wall to the floor) does not count against the Spider for the purposes of needing to charge in a straight line. I'm so going to need to clarify this.

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The lightweight body of the Spider, coupled with the ability for its legs to brace itself, means she takes damage from falls and impacts (such as being slammed into a wall or thrown) in the form of 1d4s rather than 1d6s. For each size category the Spider grows beyond Medium, she reduces all fall damage by 1 point and the size of the fall damage dice by one step (ie. from 1d4 at medium to 1d3 at large, 1d2 at huge and 1 point thereafter).

Silk Skein: A Spider of fifth level or higher gains the ability to use further techniques with her web. She adds the following abilities to her repertoire:

Jerk Line: The Spider can attempt to trip an enemy she has a web strand attached to, even from a distance as far as fifty feet away. This is a standard action involving a Dexterity check opposed by the opponent's choice of Strength or Dexterity check. The standard size modifiers apply. This provokes no attack of opportunity, and opponents do not get a trip attack against the Spider should she fail.

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Whip Cord: The Spider heaves a strand of silk so it snaps near the far end, forcing an enemy to stumble. As a standard action, the Spider makes an opposed Strength check against a foe she has a strand attached to. If she succeeds, the foe staggers 5' for every 3 points she beat the opponent's result by, to a maximum of 15'. The Spider determines the direction of the stagger, and foes that strike a wall, solid object or another individual must make a reflex save (DC 10 + ½ Spider's HD + Spider's Str) or fall prone. Individuals who face collision by a Whip Corded enemy but who make their reflex save do not fall prone. Enemies who stumble off a ledge may become suspended, as described in Silk Strand, above.

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Clothesline: A Spider may take any slack strand of webbing that is firmly connected to another source and draw it tight, impeding the movement of a foe that would move between her and her entangled victim (or a terrain feature, if she attached the cord to such earlier) and potentially causing them to fall. This uses the same mechanics as Jerk Line, only it affects the foe who would move through the area between the Spider and the other end of her strand. Even for foes who succeed, the tiles with the strand in them become difficult terrain. Using Clothesline is an immediate action that also forfeits the Spider's swift action for her next turn.

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Pendulum Swing: A Spider who has an enemy suspended below her may swing the opponent like a pendulum as a standard action. She makes a Strength check against a DC of 15. On a success, she swings the opponent 5' in the direction of her choice, plus an additional 5' for every 3 points she beat the DC by, to a maximum distance of ½ the Strand's slack. If the Spider adds slack to the Strand, then the swing distance is increased accordingly.

ie. Muffet the Spider has Brandon the hapless commoner entangled, hanging 30' below her. She may swing Brandon 15' (half of 30') in any direction. Muffet adds 10' of slack to the Strand, and Brandon's subsequent swings carry him 20' (half of 40') to either side.
On their turn, the opponent swings back the same distance, in the direction they came. Thereafter, on both the Spider's and the Victim's turns (until the Spider drops the foe or uses another Swing action to cancel out the momentum) the opponent will move that set distance either to the extreme of the Strand's limits or back to the point below the Spider.

Continuing our example above, Brandon would, on his turn, swing 15' back to the point below the spider. On Muffet's next turn, he would swing 15' in the direction opposite the angle he originally swung, and so the process would continue back and forth until Muffet grew tired of tormenting him and devoured him messily.
If the swinging foe strikes an object, wall or another individual on the initial swing, they take falling damage as though they had fallen the base swing distance. On subsequent swings, the victim counts as though they had fallen twice the base swing distance. Struck targets also take the falling damage, but get a reflex save (10 + ½ Spider HD + Spider's Str) to avoid, which prevents damage to both themselves and the makeshift pendulum if successful.

Muffet Swings Brandon 20' into a wall. He takes 2d6 falling damage. His turn passes (he swings to a point below Muffet) and on her next turn, he continues swinging, slamming into the wall on the other side of the room. This swing, and all subsequent swings, deal 4d6 falling damage.
A foe disconnected in the process of swinging continues traveling in the direction he or she was last swinging as she falls, adding the swing distance to the fallen distance for the purposes of calculating fall damage.

A Spider that hangs from a Strand is free to swing herself in the same manner, if she so wishes.


Spiderbite: The sixth level spider gains the ability to make iterative bite attacks against entangled foes. Further, she may enhance her poison with an option from the list below:

The DC of the Fortitude save increases by 2.
The Poison deals +2 Str, Dex or Con damage (whichever attribute was chosen to apply to poison at first level) as part of the initial and secondary damage.
The Spider's poison corrodes the enemy's armor,lowering their AC by 1d4 on a successful bite attack. To undo the effect, the armor must be repaired (for removable armor) or healed like ability damage (for natural armor). This cannot reduce their AC to a negative.
The bite damage is considered to be vile damage and 1/3rd of the ability damage is Str, Dex or Con drain (round up), instead.
The venom overloads the victim's system. If the spider deals initial poison damage to a foe that was already poisoned (that is, failed an initial save against poison and is slated to save against secondary poison damage in the future), it further debilitates that foe as shown on the table below:
{table=Head]The foe was already...|and it becomes...
Poisoned (awaiting secondary damage)|Fatigued
Poisoned and Fatigued|Exhausted and Sickened
Poisoned, Exhausted, Sickened|Nauseated[/table]
These conditions last one minute (10 rounds) or until the victim is cured of the poison

Uncanny Dodge: Starting at sixth level, a Spider can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.

If a Spider already has uncanny dodge from a different source, she automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead. If she already has that, she gains a bonus feat.

Growth II: A seventh level Spider grows a size category, typically to large size. Her reach, grapple modifiers, natural attack damage and skills change accordingly, but she doesn't gain any ability score bonuses or penalties.

Further, the Spider grows again at a later date. When she achieves 16HD, she grows another size category in the same fashion.

Arachnophobia II: The seventh level spider gains another a unique capability specific to her environment or her particular species of spider. See the list below:

Pick One:
Silent Skirr: The Spider suffers no penalty to Hide or Move silently for running or fighting. Attacking, using abilities and foes being targeted by abilities makes no noise and allow no Listen checks. Entangled foes are muffled by the webs and are effectively silenced as per the spell.

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Ebon Carapace: The Spider has concealment at all times. In shadow, she has total concealment. The Spider gains a +2 bonus to Hide.

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Gossamer Strand: Whenever the Spider uses Web or Ensnaring Strand, she also produces a cloud of gossamer webbing, fine as human hair, that sticks to her target, every tile her strand or web passed over, and every tile adjacent to both target and affected tiles. Objects in the affected area are webbed down and anyone attempting to retrieve or pick up affected items or operate any machinery (including complex machinery such as a crank or simple machines such as doors) covered must make a Strength check (DC 10 + ½ Spider's HD + Spider's Con) as a standard action or fail to budge the item in question. Machinery that works on its own (such as a trap) and ranged weapons (such as a bow or crossbow) have a 50% chance to fail with use. Affected foes who attempt to drop items, pick up items, access their inventory or remove belongings or clothing from their person have a 25% chance to fail, though they may attempt, as a standard action, a Strength check as described above to rip the item, weapon, flap or clothing free.

Finally, opponents who are entangled by a web attack augmented by Gossamer Strand also begin to suffocate. As the strands bind to one another and grow ever tighter in the face of struggling, each failed check or save made while entangled and suffocating in this manner reduces the victim's remaining breath by two rounds.

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Arachnophobia I: Any ability from the Arachnophobia I list the Spider does not already have.

Weaver: Spiders of eighth level and higher weave their webs with what can only be called art. The Spider may have strands attached to multiple targets at the same time. Any techniques from the Silk line of abilities (Silk Strand, Silk Skein, Silk Lattice) can be used with multiple targets, select targets or just one target. For example, Reel In can be used to draw in every foe the Spider has a strand attached to, some or just one of them. In any event, for contested rolls affecting multiple foes, the foe with the highest modifier makes the opposed roll, with a +1 bonus for every +2 points of relevant ability modifier the other affected targets have.

For example, Brandon, already ensnared and entangled, watches in horror as Buttons, his cute puppy, and Fiona-May, his lady love, are ensnared by the Spider. The Spider uses Reel In to draw them closer. Brandon has a +3 Strength modifier, Buttons has a -1 and Fiona May has a +2. Fiona-May helps Brandon pull against the strands, granting Brandon a +1 (half of Fiona May's +2 Strength modifier) bonus, for a total of +4. Given that the Spider has a Strength modifier of +7, Brandon's future looks rather grim.
Further, the Ensnaring Strand ability (see Silk Strand) can now be used to target up to three foes with a single action. These foes must be within 10' of one another.

Further, the Spider can apply webs, strands and other web-based impediments to foes who have freedom of movement effects active on them. Such foes get a +4 to their touch AC to avoid being struck and a +2 to all freedom of movement saves to slip out of the web.

Twitchleap: The Spider, once she has reached eighth level, may leap across the battlefield with surprising agility. The DC for jump checks is halved and she counts her movement speed as being 15' higher for every size category above Medium size she has, for the purposes of determining how far Jump carries her in a given turn.

Silk Lattice: At ninth level, the Spider adds three more techniques to her repertoire:

Elastic Strand: By spending a web use, the Spider can move from the floor to any point on a wall or ceiling within 50', from the wall to any point on the floor or ceiling within 50', or from the ceiling to any point on a wall or floor within 50'. This is a move action, and by using it, she takes a -2 penalty to attacks and her AC until the start of her next turn.

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Grasping Glob: The Spider targets an item a foe carries, rather than the foe themselves, with the sticky end of a strand of web. This operates as a disarm attempt, only the Spider provokes no attack of opportunity, her opposed attack roll is ranged, and she cannot (obviously) be disarmed in retaliation. This ability consumes a web use if successful, pulling the seized item 10' towards the Spider or to the midpoint between herself and the foe, whichever is further.

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Gallows Lariat: The Spider may fashion a length of web into a noose. Rather than use her weaver ability to attach strands to multiple foes, she may attempt to throw this noose around a foe. Should the ranged touch attack hit, the foe must make a reflex save (DC 10 + ½ Spider HD + Spider's Dex) or have the thread encircle his neck. If this occurs, the creature immediately begins suffocating.

If the Spider has Razor Wire from the Arachnophobia ability, above, the strand deals 1d6 damage if the ranged touch attack hits, and the spider decapitates the foe if she rolls a 19 or 20 on the ranged touch attack and the foe fails the reflex save. Decapitated foes die if they have just the one head, and take 3d6 damage otherwise.

Growth III: A tenth level Spider grows a size category, typically to huge size. Her reach, grapple modifiers, natural attack damage and skills change accordingly, but she doesn't gain any ability score bonuses or penalties.

Eerie Chitter: A Monstrous Spider of tenth level may haunt enemies with eerie noises that echo through the surroundings. Eerie Chitter requires a swift action, and forces every enemy in earshot to make a Will save (DC 10 + ½ Spider's HD + Spider's Cha) or be shaken. Opponents who cannot see the Spider suffer a -4 circumstance penalty to their saving throw. Those who fail their save by 5 or more are frightened instead.

Arachnid's Bite: The eleventh level Monstrous Spider has more dangerous bites, extending the benefits granted by Bugbite and Spiderbite, above. The Spider gains the ability to deal half poison damage to foes that are already immune to poison or to ability damage. If her poison is Constitution-based, and she would do poison damage to a foe without a Con score, she deals 2 less ability damage and targets Str instead. Poison Resistance is only half as effective. Finally, she may pick one of the following:

The Spider's poison imposes a negative level on foes failing the initial saving throw.
The Spider's bite paralyzes foes for 1 round if they fail the initial save against poison.
The poison deals additional ability damage. Poisoned foes suffer Int, Wis or Cha damage equal to half of whatever physical ability damage they sustain (the choice of mental stat is made once and applies to the poison thereafter), rounding down.
The bite increases in damage as though the Spider grew by one size category, and its critical threat range increases by one (ie. from 19-20 to 18-20).

Arachnophobia III: The eleventh level spider gains a final unique trait specific to her particular approach. See the list below:

Pick one:
Hunter's Mandibles: The Spider treats all successful bite attacks against a foe that was poisoned by a previous bite attack or by another source as unconfirmed critical hits. Typically, this encompasses any foe who has failed their initial save against poison and has a check for secondary poison damage impending.

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Lurker's Mandibles: The Spider treats all successful bite attacks against entangled foes as unconfirmed critical hits.

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Arachnophobia I, II: Any ability from the Arachnophobia I or Arachnophobia II lists the Spider does not already have.


Comments
The Monstrous Spider. The penultimate traveling companion for a party of Drow adventurers. Mayhaps she (and she's always going to be a she, I'm afraid - Boy spiders offer little more than fertilization and a post-copulation meal.) was a gift from Lolth to her worshipers, infused with just a fragment of Lolth's will. Perhaps she was once a Drow priestess, and was blessed/cursed (who can say with Lolth?) with this form. In any event, you're a giant spider, rawr. It's all about the webs and the poison.

The Giant Spider is a roguish character in general approach, minus the skill monkeying, plus a little bit in the way of acrobatics and freedom of movement. So you get some acrobatic skills, hide, move silently, and instead of sneak attack, your schtick is ensnaring foes with your web, then stringing them up, flinging them around or tying them down. Whatever. If that's not an option, then you can fall back on a bite with a nasty poison & several ways to boost it over the course of the class.

Growth progression was tricky, because Monstrous Spiders are, as written, set up to grow far faster than our standard progression for monster classes. In the spirit of the design, I made it so Monstrous Spiders are capable of growing to colossal size by taking all of the levels in the class, but some of those growths are put off to a later HD. Pretty fair, I think.

Feedback, even as simple as "that looks fun" or "that looks lame as hell" is appreciated. More detailed feedback is more appreciated, of course.
Changelog
Changes, February 18, 2011:
Con based poison now deals less poison damage, as it's the best stat to target. This means spider doesn't outclass Wyvern, and there's more of a choice between the stats.
Clarified that escaping webs requires a standard action.
Clarified the 'lift the foe off the ground' effect of Reel in, for spiders above the foe.
Enzyme tweaked, so it now imposes Wis or Cha penalties due to the pain/scarring.
Brood Mother tweaked. It's now a 1/hour ability, and I slowed the rate of gaining additional swarms, clarified it only deals the damage once, and qualified that only enemies worthy of granting CR will allow for swarm creation.
Clarified the detail on Razor Tangle, where RAW, they took damage twice for failing a strength check to free themselves.
Clarified/buffed Silent Skirr, adding that attacking, using abilities and foes being attacked by the spider makes no noise.
Twitchleap changed. Now halves DCs for jump checks, and gives the Spider bonus movement for the purposes of counting how far Jump carries her in a given turn.
Clarified Hunter's Bite, stressing that the Spider gets the unconfirmed crit against any foe that has failed an initial save against poison and is awaiting secondary damage, and that it applies only if the poison was applied by a previous bite attack or another source (so you can't deliver poison and then get a potential crit in the same bite. Shouldn't need to be said, given the order of such things, but clarified anyways).
Weaver now grants a way around freedom of movement. Such foes still get a bonus to AC vs. the ranged touch attack of web/strand and a bonus to escape artist.
Arachnid's Bite at 11th level now grants a way around poison immunity, poison resistance.
Changes, February 19, 2011:
Poison damage progression for the con type damage changed. I aimed for it to be just one step behind the Str/Dex damage (or 3HD behind in terms of progression rate), but I'd missed the fact that it jumps just a bit midway through. Simultaneously fixed a typo where I had 1d6 con damage at 18HD instead of 1d8 (it now does 2d6/2d6 con damage at 18)
Set a cap of 1 swarm per 4HD on the Brood Mother ability. Changed the duration limit to 1 hour per 5HD.
Changes, February 27, 2011:
Web range increases with HD, now. +5'/increment per 5HD, 25' max range per 5HD.
Enzyme text simplified, as it couldn't decide what it meant to refer to. Necrosis damage remains, but it now deals 1 point of acid damage to foes who are immune to ability damage/poison.
Clarified stuff in Brood Mother. Removed +2 to save, put a 1/hour limit on uses. Let the Spider devour young for HP or web uses.
Removed decapitation from Razor Tangle. I loved the idea, but I'll be damned if I ever got the execution right. Replaced the decapitation with bonus hardness on webs for the interim.
Tweaked the last option in Spiderbite, with a table & wording clarification.
Under silent skirr, added 'entangled foes are muffled by the webs and are effectively silenced'.
Clarified the Arachnid's Bite mental damage.
Lurker's Mandibles: Entangled is something that can be worked around (you can escape) so this just adds a threat to it. Given it's bite attack only, and your bite is fairly controlled, leaving as is unless given a more solid argument otherwise.
Changes, March 1st, 2011:
Noted that poison damage to AC can't reduce AC to a negative.
Changed Eerie Chitter so the better result makes foes frightened (was going from shaken to panicked, before).
Added a new ability under Silk Lattice, the Gallows Lariat. Lets you encircle someone's throat with a noose. Razor Wire now has a way to decapitate again.
Added Spiderbraid under Silk Strand, letting the Spider make lengths of rope with her web uses. It just makes sense.
March 2nd, 2011:
Numerous capitalization and structure changes.
Range increment/range clarified for web.
And erroneous range detailed under Silk Strand fixed.
Clarified range of Brood Mother's ability to sense where her implanted victims are.
Clarified that Eerie chitter adds a penalty to saving throw.
Clarified the whole "What happens when you have a con based poison that penetrates immunities and enemy has no con score" bit.
Clarified crit range under Arachnid's bite.
Thanks again to Psyborg for contributing the feedback necessary to make these changes.

radmelon
2011-02-19, 01:00 AM
The spider looks interesting. I would have thought that mindless octopedal horror would make a bad PC, but it works!

I think that the Hydra would be a good nexttarget of your expertise when the spider is finished. After all, it's pretty much the definition of one-trick pony.

Hyudra
2011-02-19, 01:21 AM
The spider looks interesting. I would have thought that mindless octopedal horror would make a bad PC, but it works!

I think that the Hydra would be a good nexttarget of your expertise when the spider is finished. After all, it's pretty much the definition of one-trick pony.

Thanks for the response to my Spider. I think I'd enjoy playing it, which is the best I can offer from my own perspective. In terms of balance, I guess my only primary concern is that so much hinges on webbing foes & having strands attached to them, and I wonder if the webbing and/or strands are too easy to circumvent/remove/escape/cut... and now that I think on it, need a way around freedom of movement added in there somewhere.

As far as what I'm doing next, my current to do list includes:
Fix Storm Giant. A post a few pages back details what I think is wrong with it, and why I'm struggling with fixing it.
Get Medusa and Monstrous Spider critiqued and finished.
Small Critter Experiment #2. The Lemure was #1 (and is now abandoned, for the record). Essentially, these experiments are out-of-the-box thinking on how to make really sucktastic monsters worth playing. Lemure was about 'suck now, be badass later'. Experiment #2 is probably more consistently balanced, but takes a very unconventional route in design that makes it hard to cover all the bases. My gut feeling, though, is that Experiment #2, even as a one level class, would be awesomely fun to play.
Drow. I've got a lot of ideas down already, but with only 2 levels to work with and scads of pre-existing flavor (several book series, a whole sourcebook), it's hard to offer a Drow Monster Class that sells the flavor sufficiently, really feels 'Drow' and offers something unique as far as playstyle.
Secret Project XRD. This is a 20 level monster class that I've been working on for two weeks now. Keeping it a secret as to which monster it is until the big reveal.
Non-monster-class Project C. A non-monster class homebrew work that won't go in this thread, that nonetheless is taking up a fair bit of my attention.
Templates. There's quite a few that haven't been done, and more that could be revised or tweaked.
Maybe Monstrous Centipede, the little brother to Monstrous Spider, since I already did the Spider. Not sure what I would do with it, though.

Gorgondantess
2011-02-19, 03:03 AM
Saguaro Sentinel
https://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/sand_gallery/87634.jpg

HD: D12
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will |Special
1st|+0|+2|+0|+2| Cactus Body, Thorns, +1 Str
2nd|+1|+3|+0|+3| Tough Flesh, Natural Defenses, +1 Str, +1 Con
3rd|+2|+3|+1|+3| 1,000 Needles, +1 Str, +1 Con
4th|+3|+4|+1|+4| Improved Grab, +1 Str, +1 Con
5th|+3|+4|+1|+4| Growth, Trample, +1 Str, +1 Con
6th|+4|+5|+2|+5| Pin Missile, Even the Mightiest Fall On You, +1 Str, +1 Con
7th|+5|+5|+2|+5| Thorny Grasp, +1 Str, +1 Con
8th|+6|+6|+2|+6| Arm Growth, +1 Str, +1 Con
9th|+6|+6|+3|+6| Growth, Sweep, +1 Str, +1 Con[/table]
Skill Points 2+Int per level
Class Skills: Balance, Disguise, Intimidate, Knowledge (Nature), Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, Survival

Proficiencies: The Saguaro Sentinel is proficient only with its own natural attacks.

Cactus Body: The Saguaro Sentinel loses all other racial bonuses and gains traits of the Plant type and all characteristics thereof. It is initially a medium sized creature with a movement speed of 20', as well as 2 slam attacks dealing 1d8+Str damage each. The slam attacks deal both bludgeoning and piercing damage. Saguaro Sentinels have natural armor equal to their Constitution modifiers.
Finally, a Saguaro Sentinel gains a bonus equal to 2x its HD to disguise itself as a nonsentient cactus.

Thorns: Creatures striking a Saguaro Sentinel with natural or unarmed attacks or otherwise grasping/striking it (such as initiating a grapple, trample, overrun, bull rush, unarmed trip, trample, etc.) take 1d6 piercing damage. If this is a continuous effect, such as a swallow whole, it takes the damage every round. This improves to 2d6 at 3 HD and by another 1d6 every 3 HD thereafter.
If the Saguaro Sentinel later gains an ability that involves striking or grasping a creature with a greater area or duration than a simple slam attack, it deals thorns damage to the creature.
Examples of applicable abilities:
From the class: Improved Grab, Trample, Even the Mightiest Fall on You, Sweep. See individual abilities for details on where & when the damage applies.
Feats: Improved Overrun, Improved Bull Rush (note that bull rushes and overruns without these feats do not apply thorns damage).
Class abilities: Dungeoncrasher fighter variant, Charging Minotaur maneuver, most Setting Sun maneuvers.
Other examples may apply by DM adjudication.

Attribute Bonus: The Saguaro Sentinel gains +1 Strength at every level and +1 Constitution at every level but 1 for a total of +9 Str & +8 Con.

Tough Flesh: At 2nd level, the Saguaro Sentinel gains DR/Piercing equal to half its HD and does not take extra damage from dehydration effects as a plant normally would, such as a horrid wilting spell.

Natural Defenses: At 2nd level, the Saguaro Sentinel's thorns become throughly unpleasant, and creatures wanting to attack the Saguaro Sentinel may only do so reluctantly. A creature intending on taking an action that would incur damage from the thorns ability must make a Will save DC (10+1/2 HD+Cha mod) or take a penalty to damage & ability score checks against the Saguaro Sentinel equal to the Saguaro Sentinel's Charisma modifier (minimum 0) plus a number equal to 1/3 its HD. A creature who successfully saves against this ability is immune to this effect for the next 24 hours.
As a move-equivalent action, the Saguaro Sentinel may brandish its thorns, forcing those who have failed their Will saves to be unable to target the Saguaro Sentinel with an action that would incur thorns damage so long as another target is available.
Creatures specifically immune to fear are immune to natural defenses, as well as constructs, undead and anything else immune to pain, though other creatures otherwise immune to mind affecting (such as from a mind blank spell, vermin type, etc.) are not immune.

1,000 Needles: At 4th level, the Saguaro Sentinel may as a swift action violently rub its arms against each other in a scissoring motion, spraying thorns everywhere. This ability is usable once per day per 2 HD the Saguaro Sentinel has (rounded down), and in doing so it deals half thorns damage to itself as it gouges into itself with its own thorns in the process. It may choose one of two options:
The first is to direct the spray of thorns outwards; this ability uses up 2 daily uses. Any enemies in a 15' cone take thorns damage and are blinded for a number of rounds equal to half the damage they took. They may make a reflex save (DC 10+1/2 HD+Str mod) to negate the blindness.
The range increases to 20' at large size, 30' at huge, 40' at gargantuan and 50' at colossal.
Alternatively, the Saguaro Sentinel can simply drop as many needles as possible. This is identical to dropping a field of caltrops (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#caltrops) in a 5' square of its choice within reach. The Saguaro Sentinel adds its Constitution modifier or half its BAB to the attack roll, whichever is higher. At large size it may cover 2 5' squares within reach, at huge size 4 squares, at gargantuan size 8 squares and at colossal size 16 squares. All the "caltrops" squares must be adjacent to each other.
As a 1-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity, the Saguaro Sentinel may very carefully brush off its thorns to create the "caltrops". Doing so negates the damage it would normally deal to itself.

Improved Grab: A Saguaro Sentinel of 4th level or higher that lands a slam attack on an opponent can immediately initiate a grapple without provoking an attack of opportunity. Creatures successfully held by the Saguaro Sentinel take Thorns damage, and any attacks or damage dealt as a part of the grapple also deal thorns damage.

Growth: At 5th level, the Saguaro Sentinel grows to Large size, gaining all associated bonuses and penalties as well as a +1 bonus to natural armor.

Trample: As a full-round action, the Saguaro Sentinel can move up to twice its speed and literally run over any opponents at least one size category smaller than itself. It merely has to move over the opponents in its path; any creature whose space is completely covered by it's space is subject to the trample attack. If a target’s space is larger than 5 feet, it is only considered trampled if it moves over all the squares it occupies.

A trample attack deals bludgeoning damage equal to the Saguaro Sentinel's slam attack plus thorns damage.

Trampled opponents can attempt attacks of opportunity, but these take a -4 penalty and they must save against Natural Defenses in order to do so (those who have already failed simply cannot). If they do not make attacks of opportunity, trampled opponents can attempt Reflex saves to take half damage.

The save DC against the Saguaro Sentinel’s trample attack is 10+½ HD+Str modifier. It can only deal trampling damage to each target once per round, no matter how many times its movement takes it over a target creature.

Pin Missile: At 6th level, the Saguaro Sentinel may launch all of its thorns from its body at once as a move action.
This deals Thorns to any enemy in a 5'/HD radius of the Saguaro Sentinel. Additionally, enemies damaged by the Pin Missiles take a -1 penalty on attack rolls, skill checks, and ability checks for every 5 damage they took (rounded down). This lasts until the damage is healed.
After using this ability, the Saguaro Sentinel loses its Thorns, Needle Arms, Pin Missile, Sweep (for the purposes of impalement), 1,000 Needles & Thorny Grasp ability for 1d6 rounds as it regrows all its thorns.
Alternatively, the Saguaro Sentinel may direct the Pin Missile as a standard action from one arm. This requires a ranged attack roll to strike the target, though it only loses thorn based abilities for one arm. This allows one less attack with Sweep, doesn't allow the Saguaro Sentinel to use Improved Grab with that arm's slam attack, and doesn't allow it to use Pin Missile with that arm. A Saguaro Sentinel that has lost all its arms' thorns loses its 1,000 Needles and Thorny Grasp abilities until at least one arm is restored.

Even the Mightiest Fall On You: Whenever the Saguaro Sentinel is affected by a negative status condition (excepting indeterminate status conditions like grappling or instantaneous status conditions like ability damage/drain, though usable with conditions that don't allow actions like paralysis or stunning) it may enter a brief period of hibernation and sleep it off. In doing so, the Saguaro Sentinel falls prone & unconscious for a duration equal to one half the status effect's duration. It may choose in which direction to fall, and any creature wholly within its fallen area must make a reflex save (10+1/2 HD+Con Mod) or be crushed underneath it, taking thorns damage plus slam damage. Though the Saguaro Sentinel may not take actions, any creatures are considered grappled by the Saguaro Sentinel, and the Saguaro Sentinel makes opposed grapple checks as normal (albeit using only half its strength modifier.)
The Saguaro Sentinel may also activate this ability when knocked prone, unconscious or killed or if it simply decides to go prone itself, in which case it may take actions and grapple as normal.
The Saguaro Sentinel may fall wherever it chooses, so long as it is at least adjacent to its original position.
Fallen Saguaro Sentinel Area:
{table]Size|Area
Large|10'x20'
Huge|15'x30'
Gargantuan|20'x40'
Colossal|30'x60'[/table]

Thorny Grasp: At 7th level, opponents who successfully escape the Saguaro Sentinel's grapple (or from being crushed under it, or impaled by sweep) take a penalty to dexterity equal to one half thorns damage (not to reduce the opponent to less than 1 dexterity) from rasped off flesh and embedded thorns. A DC 15 heal check can remove 1 point of dexterity penalty as a full round action.
Additionally, creatures under a freedom of movement or similar effect become immune to the dexterity penalty and extra thorns damage from grappling, but may still be grappled (or crushed, or impaled with sweep) by the Saguaro Sentinel as normal.

Arm Growth: Beginning at 8th level, the Saguaro gains a number of additional arms (and thus slam attacks) equal to 1/5 its HD; typically this will start at one. At 10 HD it will have a total of 4 arms, at 15 HD 5 arms, etc.

Growth: At 9th level, the Saguaro Sentinel grows to Huge size and gains an additional +1 bonus to natural armor.
At 14 HD the Saguaro Sentinel grows to Gargantuan size, gaining a further +1 bonus to natural armor.
Finally, at 19 HD, the Saguaro Sentinel grows to Colossal size, gaining a final +2 bonus to natural armor.

Sweep: As a full round action, the Saguaro Sentinel may sweep its arms around to snag any foes within its path.
The Saguaro Sentinel attacks every creature within reach+5', dealing base slam damage plus thorns damage. Creatures successfully struck in this manner must make a Reflex save DC (10+1/2 HD+Str Mod) or be impaled on the Saguaro Sentinel's arms. The Saguaro Sentinel may only impale one creature per arm. Creatures impaled in this manner are brought along with the Saguaro Sentinel as it moves, and may attack it with a -4 penalty, though the Saguaro Sentinel is flat footed against these attacks. The creature may make an escape artist check or strength check in order to break free, opposed by the Saguaro Sentinel's grapple check (much like an ordinary grapple).
Henceforth as a standard action, the Saguaro Sentinel may choose a creature to pluck off and hurl. Creatures thrown are considered improvised thrown weapons with a base damage of 1d10 for a medium sized creature and a range increment of 10'. Creatures wearing heavy or spiked armor are considered one size category larger. Regardless of whether the attack connects, the thrown creature is knocked prone, taking both the damage the target would take and the Dexterity penalty detailed under Thorny Grasp. The creatures struck by the thrown creature must make a Balance check equal to the damage it took or also be knocked prone; flying creatures fall to the ground, and both take appropriate falling damage.
Grappled creatures may also be thrown in this manner, provided they are at least one size category smaller than the Saguaro Sentinel.
Alternately, the Saguaro Sentinel may simply punt the enemy into the ground: the hapless victim takes an additional amount of damage equal to the Saguaro Sentinel's Strength modifier and may be tossed at any square within the Saguaro Sentinel's reach.

Changelog:
Added Sweep & Even the Mightiest Fall On You, added crushing & sweeping to thorny grasp, changed pin missile to a move action, edited natural defenses, reworded arm growth, reduced Pin Missile to a move action.

Expanded on Pin Missile, again.

Moved around first 4 levels, added 1000 needles, removed that one ability whose name I've already forgotten and added its abilities under cactus body, reworded most of the abilities from improved grab on, really reworded sweep.

Expanded on Thorns, added an addenda to 1,000 needles involving DR, halved pin missile range and edited "one arm", reworded arm growth, reworded throwing creatures with Hyudra's help.

Did some wording editing.

Hyudra
2011-02-19, 10:21 AM
Señor Saguaro
I've bugged people about using colored text in their monster titles before. I'd be remiss if I didn't point it out now.
At a glance, I find it disappointing that you've only got two active abilities over 9 levels (trample and pin missile). The former is situational, the latter can only be used every 2d4 rounds.
The will save seems a little out of place.
Skills look pretty good, but I wonder about disguise. How come?
Ah, to disguise as a cactus. How bizarre.
The slam attacks do quite a bit of damage, starting off. That's, IIRC, d12+Str +Thorns damage each, by the time you've taken full levels in the class.
Natural defenses: 'refrain from doing so until the rest of the encounter' is... pretty daunting. I mean, that's going to win you most encounters if they fail that will save, and it doesn't require an action from Señor Saguaro.
Not sure I like 'disregarding multiclassing' under Arm Growth. Perhaps just "Typically this will start at 1"?

FishAreWet
2011-02-19, 10:31 AM
Monstrous Spider and Saguaro Sentinel seem like opposites. The spider takes big leaps in possible abilities to the point that it might have too many. The cactus is a very boring beatstick. It gets almost no active abilities and half the ones it gets are standard monster abilities like Trample and Imp Grab.

The Spider has some strange quirks:

Everyone is going to choose Con damage. It's just better. It deals HP damage and can kill opponents. I worry that the Web mechanic is too complex. Brood Mother can avoid lots of issue by saying "The Spider may only have one Swarm active at a time."
Tarsus Impaler, you have to attack THEN take a Full Round Action? So this takes two turns to use?
Razor Tangle, decapitation is a bad effect. It's undefined and this mechanic is pure luck.
Hunter's Mandibles, what does it mean to be poisoned? They are instantaneous effects.


Saguaro Sentinel is just too boring.

Hyudra
2011-02-19, 10:48 AM
Monstrous Spider and Saguaro Sentinel seem like opposites. The spider takes big leaps in possible abilities to the point that it might have too many. The cactus is a very boring beatstick. It gets almost no active abilities and half the ones it gets are standard monster abilities like Trample and Imp Grab.

The Spider has some strange quirks:

Everyone is going to choose Con damage. It's just better. It deals HP damage and can kill opponents.

Gorgondantess said the same thing about Con damage being superior. My response was that Str damage can work for a Spider that is built around web, since enemies need Str to free themselves or resist being pulled around. And once I had those two, I figured I'd leave in Dex damage as an option.


I worry that the Web mechanic is too complex.

Hrm. There's a lot of text devoted to the things you can do with webs & strands, but I don't think it's complex in a way that would bog down the game. Most of it, to my interpretation, feels pretty intuitive. I'm open to disagreement though.


Brood Mother can avoid lots of issue by saying "The Spider may only have one Swarm active at a time."

What issues concern you?


Tarsus Impaler, you have to attack THEN take a Full Round Action? So this takes two turns to use?

Bad wording on my part. Meant to be a full round action, I just wanted to stress it involved only a single claw attack as part of the FRA.


Razor Tangle, decapitation is a bad effect. It's undefined and this mechanic is pure luck.

Undefined? Doesn't it speak for itself? I can clarify.

Sometimes I add a bonus ability just as gravy for an ability that already, in my mind, works. Then I get responses that expect the gravy/flavor ability to be totally up to par. This is tricky.


Hunter's Mandibles, what does it mean to be poisoned? They are instantaneous effects.

Someone who's failed their initial save against poison.

mootoall
2011-02-19, 12:01 PM
My biggest problem with the Monstrous Spider is the egg-implanting bit. It's 1d6 damage/2 HD per swarm, and a swarm/4 HD. At 20th level, that's 50d6 damage. At 15th, 21d6. At 10, 10d6. Overall, it's a buttload of damage stacked on two bouts of Con damage, which your opponents will likely fail the saves against due to your (pardon the pun) monstrous save DCs. Maybe cap damage/number of swarms? EDIT: Con damage is even better because after your opponent fails their first save, their second's gonna be weaker.

Crafty Cultist
2011-02-19, 12:33 PM
My biggest problem with the Monstrous Spider is the egg-implanting bit. It's 1d6 damage/2 HD per swarm, and a swarm/4 HD. At 20th level, that's 50d6 damage. At 15th, 21d6. At 10, 10d6. Overall, it's a buttload of damage stacked on two bouts of Con damage, which your opponents will likely fail the saves against due to your (pardon the pun) monstrous save DCs. Maybe cap damage/number of swarms? EDIT: Con damage is even better because after your opponent fails their first save, their second's gonna be weaker.

The damage for brood mother doesn't say that its per swarm, but I soppose that could be a bit clearer. As for the con damage, Maybe reducing the damage by one factor if con damage is chosen would help the balance.

dsmiles
2011-02-19, 12:49 PM
Since my homebrewing skills aren't up to par with the rest of you, can I make a request?

Kobold-Bard
2011-02-19, 12:55 PM
Since my homebrewing skills aren't up to par with the rest of you, can I make a request?

Go for it.

ION: I hate the Chimera because it'll never be as good as if someone else did it. But I can't dump it again, so I'm procrastinating by doing other stuff.

dsmiles
2011-02-19, 01:00 PM
I looked in the lists, and didn't see the Psurlon or Elder Psurlon. If someone could take those on, that would be awesome!

mootoall
2011-02-19, 01:02 PM
The damage for brood mother doesn't say that its per swarm, but I soppose that could be a bit clearer. As for the con damage, Maybe reducing the damage by one factor if con damage is chosen would help the balance. So the implication is meant to be that (at 20th) it only does 10d6 damage, but produces 5 swarms that follow you for 10 hours? Yes, that is something that should be clarified if it's the case. Although, with iteratives granted, it's still a lot of damage.

Hyudra
2011-02-19, 01:22 PM
So the implication is meant to be that (at 20th) it only does 10d6 damage, but produces 5 swarms that follow you for 10 hours? Yes, that is something that should be clarified if it's the case. Although, with iteratives granted, it's still a lot of damage.

Yeah. meant to be 10d6 at 20HD with 5 swarms.

But keep in mind, the effect is delayed until your poison does the secondary poison damage. Even if you're poisoning a foe in the first round of battle, you're waiting a minute (10 rounds) for the effect to occur. Chances are you'll only be able to make use of it if you web someone and bind them tight (to the point that they can't take any actions), and then inject the poison, or if you have some other means of disabling them.

@Crafty, I think I'll do that with the Con damage.

Kobold-Bard
2011-02-19, 01:55 PM
Magmin

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_hoHXXuJGtKs/S9uQIjTO3_I/AAAAAAAAAJI/1i4ujzMH7TY/s1600/magmin2.jpg

Class:
Hit Dice: d8
{table]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1|+0|+0|+2|+0|Demi-flame Body, Pyrokinesis
2|+1|+0|+3|+0|Balance of Fire, Melt +1 Str
3|+2|+1|+3|+1|Firey Soul, Inferno[/table]
Class Skills 4+Int Mod (x4 at 1st level): Climb, Concentration Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Spot

Proficiencies: Magmins are proficient with their natural weapons and all simple weapons (though it's ability to use these may be hampered by it's class abilities; see below).

Class Features:

Demi-flame Body (Ex): At first level the Magmin loses all racial traits & features, and gains Elemental Features. It has the Extraplanar subtype when not on the Elemental Plane of Fire, and always has the Fire Subtype. Unlike most Elementals, it may be resurrected as normal as long as the effect is utilised on a Fire aligned Plane.

It receives a Natural armour bonus equal to its Con Modifier, is Small size with a base land speed of 30ft.
It has a primary slam attack that deals 1d3+Str Mod damage.
It's Caster level for Fire spells is 1 higher than normal.

Pyrokinesis (Su): The Magmin is heat incarnate, but will ordinarily subdue it's firey form so that it can interact with others without melting them. As a free action it may ignite it's body (and subdue it again as a free action). The main benefit of this is that it's slam attack deals an extra 1d4/2HD fire damage, and it may ignite easily flammable materials (paper, wood, straw etc.) by making contact with them.

It may also (as a standard action every 5 rounds) launch a glob of magma that acts as Alchemist's Fire (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#alchemistsFire) except it has a range increment of 5ft/HD, deals 1d6/2HD damage to those in the target square and 1 point/HD to those within 10ft (though this secondary damage may not exceed the primary damage in the case of very low rolls).

Balance of Fire (Ex): At level 2 the Magnim develops a natural defence system. When not ignited (see Pyrokinesis) it gains Damage Reduction equal to 1/2 its HD that is overcome by Weapons that are Magic & Cold Iron.

When it is ignited the Magmin loses it's Damage Reduction but instead surrounds itself with a corona of heat that makes the air hazy. It gains a miss chance equal to 5%/2HD. This is a displacement effect.

Melt (Ex): From 2nd level, whilst ignited any none magical metal weapon the Magmin is struck with/holds must make a Fort Save (DC 10+1/2HD+Con Mod) or be melted into slag. Magical weapons that fail the Save are superheated and considered Searing, as per the Heat Metal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/heatMetal.htm) spell.

Firey Soul (Su): At third level the Magmin learns a technique that allows it to cause chaos amongst it's enemies. As a standard action 1/day (gaining an extra use at 6HD and every 6HD after that) it has it may touch and harmlessly melt itself into an object; including weapons, armour, shields & magic items. If the item is attended the bearer may (if they are aware of it) make a Will save (DC 10+1/2 Magmin's HD+Magmin's Con Mod) to resist the Magmin if they don't wish it to succeed. This is also true of unattended magic items. Magmins with less than 21HD may not bind themselves to an artefact.

The Magmin may suppress the magical/supernatural abilities of the item, as well as halving any AC bonus the item grants or causing a penalty to attack rolls equal to 1/2 the Magmin's HD.

Whilst bound the Magmin is immune to harm and doesn't age (it is however sill there, so is not untargetable), though it may be displaced from the item by a dispel effect (it is considered to be a Transmutation spell with a CL equal to it's HD). It may communicate telepathically with the person bearing it.

Willingly freeing itself from an item is a standard action that causes a large flash which Dazzles everyone within 20ft (no Save) and melts/incinerates/generally shatters the item if it is none magical. It may stay bound to an item indefinitely, though it must make a Fort Save (DC 25- the Magmin's HD (minimum 0)) every 24 hours it is bound or be expelled without the Dazzle/destruction effect and is Fatigued.

At 10HD it may melt into nonmagical items at will.

Inferno (Su): At 3rd level, 1/day for every 3HD it has the Magmin may turn itself purely to flame and explode itself. It affects all creatures within a 5ft/HD radius, causing 1d6/HD fire damage (DC 10+1/2 HD+Con Mod Ref Save for 1/2 damage) and igniting any unattended flammables. The area is considered difficult terrain until the Magmin's next turn and deals 1 point of fire damage/HD to any creature that ends it's turn within the area.

The Magmin is considered helpless, untargetable & nowhere until the start of it's next turn, at which point it reforms either where it exploded or in a pre-determined fire or fireplace on the same Plane as it. The Magmin must take a full round action within 5ft of the fire/fireplace to attune to it in advance of trying to reform there. If the flame is gone when the Magin tries to reform then it must reform where it exploded. It may reform in a fireplace whether there is fire currently in it or not. It may only attune to one fire/fireplace at a time.

Comments:
Another unusual critter to distract myself from the Chimera. Shockingly enough it's abilities are largely fire based, though anything immune to fire can be screwed with with it's Firey Soul ability; which I made as a useful version of their "jump out of fireplaces and scare people/burn their stuff" fluff.

--------------------
For reference:
Quasi-God (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10077255&postcount=719)
Rast (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10402041&postcount=530)

Last one until something gets approved, I promise.

Gorgondantess
2011-02-19, 02:00 PM
I don't think that the Saguaro Sentinel is that boring. Yes, it doesn't have many options going for it, but the ones it does have I've expanded upon to the point it's not just "improved grab". 'Sides, I don't do "Gambit Schema: Tangle of Thorns!" That's Hyudra's schtick. Rather than giving it a bunch of abilities whose uses are questionable, I've given it a few abilities whose uses are damn relevant.
That being said, I did want to give it an ability for 9th level. I just couldn't think of anything at the time. So now I will.:smalltongue:

Hyudra
2011-02-19, 02:04 PM
Ok, in light of the recent influx of monsters, I'm making a proposal to homebrewers herein.

If you give someone else an in depth critique, I'll give your monster (you choose which - or choose someone else's) an in depth critique in response.

This is a limited time offer, but for right now, it's a way to get yourself fast critiques in between my batch critiques (those posts I make where I go over pretty much every monster on the unfinished list). Just try to be fair - don't go critiquing the 2 level phase wasp and then ask me to critique 18 levels of psionic monstrosity, please.

Kobold-Bard
2011-02-19, 02:08 PM
I would love to critique stuff, but I'm just awful at it. I'll give it a go, but it won't go well.

Gorgondantess
2011-02-19, 02:31 PM
And Saguaro Sentinel changed. Check it out, yo.
Also: in light of the recent influx of monsters, I'm invoking the old rule of "If you already have one unfinished monster up, ask before you make a new one."
Should be common sense, but just in case.

FishAreWet
2011-02-19, 02:42 PM
Gorgondantess said the same thing about Con damage being superior. That's a good point about Str. I guess it's better to give the choice then to not.

Hrm. There's a lot of text devoted to the things you can do with webs & strands, but I don't think it's complex in a way that would bog down the game. Most of it, to my interpretation, feels pretty intuitive. I'm open to disagreement though.Complex isn't always a bad thing. It's more so my initial reaction to so much text for a single ability.

Swarm: What issues concern you?Misread the ability. Ignore this.

Undefined? Doesn't it speak for itself? I can clarify.I dislike "you just die" effects like this. It's personal taste. Undefined means that no where in the glossary is the phrase "Decapitate." Does it kill? Does it kill constructs? Does it work like Vorpal?

Someone who's failed their initial save against poison.Ever? In the past round? Either way, needs to be explicitly stated in the ability. I think it means "When a Bite attacks delivers Poison and the opponent fails his save, the Bite attack becomes an unconfirmed critical." Is that right?

Other notes about poison in general sucking. Secondary damage is a full minute later. No combat lasts 10 rounds, most only last 3 or 4 tops. Secondary damage should come one round later. And the Spider should get the ability to Poison things that are immune to poison. It could be a Spider Bite or Arachnophobia ability, or something they all get, but it needs this to stay relevant. This is as much about poisoning Undead and Constructs as it is high level items granting poison immunity for only 27k.

Hyudra
2011-02-19, 02:51 PM
I dislike "you just die" effects like this. It's personal taste. Undefined means that no where in the glossary is the phrase "Decapitate." Does it kill? Does it kill constructs? Does it work like Vorpal?

It'd work like vorpal.


Ever? In the past round? Either way, needs to be explicitly stated in the ability. I think it means "When a Bite attacks delivers Poison and the opponent fails his save, the Bite attack becomes an unconfirmed critical." Is that right?

Nay. The intent was that it'd be "If the opponent is suffering from poison from a prior bite attack (or another source), your bite attacks are unconfirmed crits."


Other notes about poison in general sucking. Secondary damage is a full minute later. No combat lasts 10 rounds, most only last 3 or 4 tops. Secondary damage should come one round later. And the Spider should get the ability to Poison things that are immune to poison. It could be a Spider Bite or Arachnophobia ability, or something they all get, but it needs this to stay relevant. This is as much about poisoning Undead and Constructs as it is high level items granting poison immunity for only 27k.

I'll give it a way around poison immunity/resistance to keep it relevant.

As far as poison goes, a question - I was under the impression that poison didn't stack, but if you bite someone who's suffered from poison, you can deal the initial poison damage each time (provided they fail that save). Reading the SRD, it isn't clear.

So, by my reading, it's still fairly decent ability damage attached to your bite attack. The secondary damage is just gravy. A finisher, should your opponent retreat.

Can anyone clarify?

TheGeckoKing
2011-02-19, 02:54 PM
Ok, in light of the recent influx of monsters, I'm making a proposal to homebrewers herein.

If you give someone else an in depth critique, I'll give your monster (you choose which - or choose someone else's) an in depth critique in response.

This is a limited time offer, but for right now, it's a way to get yourself fast critiques in between my batch critiques (those posts I make where I go over pretty much every monster on the unfinished list). Just try to be fair - don't go critiquing the 2 level phase wasp and then ask me to critique 18 levels of psionic monstrosity, please.

20 Levels, plus a Prc :smallbiggrin:

Righty-o then, the Vivisector needs a review methinks (Give a few minutes to put it through a spell-checker, mind you), so I'll have a crack at critiquing the Saguaro Sentinel;

Horrid Wilting in Tough Flesh needs capitalization, methinks.
Natural Defences seems like it needs to be based off it's Con Mod, because Cha is more or less a dump stat for this guy. However, you might of intended to do it that way, so I dunno.
Pin Missile makes sense, but losing near-all your class abilities for an average of 4 rounds seems iffy. Also, the roll penalty needs a duration.


And as for Magmin, because the first review wasn't really in-depth;

Firstly, Fiery Soul.
Non-magical, not none magical (Spell Check gone mad?),
As for Fiery Soul's ability......I'm not getting how it uses someone else's Sneak Attack/Spells. I'd say it needs an opposed will save, at the very least.
For Inferno, how far can it be from the fireplace/spot with fire-y fire with regards to "Within it's presence"?


That's all for now, I guess.

Volthawk
2011-02-19, 02:55 PM
Magmin:

Hit Dice: d8

Guess it works, since it doesn't seem to be particularily feeble or tough.


{table]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1|+0|+0|+2|+0|Demi-flame Body, Pyrokinesis
2|+1|+0|+3|+0|Balance of Fire, Melt +1 Str
3|+2|+1|+3|+1|Firey Soul, Inferno[/table]

Abilities seem spread out well, and the saves/BAB seem fine to me.



Class Skills 4+Int Mod (x4 at 1st level): Climb, Concentration Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Spot

Seems a little small for a 4+Int mod class.


Proficiencies: Magmins are proficient with their natural weapons and all simple weapons (though it's ability to use these may be hampered by it's class abilities; see below).

Not too sure how the simple weapon proficiency fits in with the monster.


Demi-flame Body (Ex): At first level the Magmin loses all racial traits & features, and gains Elemental Features. It has the Extraplanar subtype when not on the Elemental Plane of Fire, and always has the Fire Subtype. Unlike most Elementals, it may be resurrected as normal as long as the effect is utilised on a Fire aligned Plane.

Immunity shouldn't be given at first level. Perhaps give resistance until 5HD or something like that? As for the resurrection thing, I don't really see why the Magmin should be easier to raise than any other Elemental.



It receives a Natural armour bonus equal to its Con Modifier, is Small size with a base land speed of 30ft.
It has a primary slam attack that deals 1d3+Str Mod damage.
It's Caster level for Fire spells is 1 higher than normal.

Nothing bad here I can see, although I do kinda like the CL boost.


Pyrokinesis (Su): The Magmin is heat incarnate, but will ordinarily subdue it's firey form so that it can interact with others without melting them. As a free action it may ignite it's body (and subdue it again as a free action). The main benefit of this is that it's slam attack deals an extra 1d4/2HD fire damage, and it may ignite easily flammable materials (paper, wood, straw etc.) by making contact with them.

So at first level (when you get it) you do no extra damage? Might want to specify a minimum or something like that. Also, you might want to specify whether magical flammable stuff gets saves (say, like scrolls).



It may also (as a standard action every 5 rounds) launch a glob of magma that acts as Alchemist's Fire (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#alchemistsFire) except it has a range increment of 5ft/HD, deals 1d6/2HD damage to those in the target square and 1 point/HD to those within 10ft (though this secondary damage may not exceed the primary damage in the case of very low rolls).

See what I said above on the minimum thing. Hmm, it does more damage than an Eldritch Blast, and has spread damage. The cooldown does help alleviate that, I guess, but still I'm not fully sure about that.



Balance of Fire (Ex): At level 2 the Magnim develops a natural defence system. When not ignited (see Pyrokinesis) it gains Damage Reduction equal to 1/2 its HD that is overcome by Weapons that are Magic & Cold Iron.

When it is ignited the Magmin loses it's Damage Reduction but instead surrounds itself with a corona of heat that makes the air hazy. It gains a miss chance equal to 5%/2HD. This is a displacement effect.


Don't get why it would lose the DR when on fire, and why Cold Iron is needed to get through it. As for the heat haze, it seems like a lot of miss chance at first glance, but it emulates a 3rd level spell at 20HD, so I guess it's alright.



Melt (Ex): From 2nd level, whilst ignited any none magical metal weapon the Magmin is struck with/holds must make a Fort Save (DC 10+1/2HD+Con Mod) or be melted into slag. Magical weapons that fail the Save are superheated and considered Searing, as per the Heat Metal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/heatMetal.htm) spell.


So does the weapon use it's weilder's Fort save, or some other save bonus? Might want to specify. How long does the Searing effect last on magic weapons that fail the save? Also, 'non-magical, not 'none magical'.


Firey Soul (Su): At third level the Magmin learns a technique that allows it to cause chaos amongst it's enemies. As a standard action 1/day (gaining an extra use at 6HD and every 6HD after that) it has it may touch and harmlessly melt itself into an object; including weapons, armour, shields & magic items. If the item is attended the bearer may (if they are aware of it) make a Will save (DC 10+1/2 Magmin's HD+Magmin's Con Mod) to resist the Magmin if they don't wish it to succeed. This is also true of unattended magic items. Magmins with less than 21HD may not bind themselves to an artefact.

OK...interesting so far. So it can go into any object, from the sword of your enemy to a rock on the floor?


The Magmin may suppress the magical/supernatural abilities of the item, as well as halving any AC bonus the item grants or causing a penalty to attack rolls equal to 1/2 the Magmin's HD.


Not too sure on the magic item suppression. As for the other part, well



Whilst bound the Magmin is immune to harm and doesn't age (it is however sill there, so is not untargetable), though it may be displaced from the item by a dispel effect (it is considered to be a Transmutation spell with a CL equal to it's HD). It may communicate telepathically with the person bearing it.

So it can just survive anything by hiding in an item?


It is allowed a single standard action each round on it's own initiative roll as long as the action it tries to take is possible in it's current form (meaning actions that are purely mental in nature or its ranged Pyrokinesis ability; which it can always use). It may use abilities not normally possible as long as the item is currently attended and the bearer is physically capable and willing to assist the Magmin. The Magmin may utilise the bearer's body as a medium for it's ability; so in this way they may cast spells, activate a Smite Evil ability, utilise Sneak Attack damage as long as the bearer is in a position to do so etc.


So it can just sit in an object (which might just be scenery) and fling magmaballs/manifest powers (if it multiclasses into Psion)/etc. with impunity?


Willingly freeing itself from an item is a standard action that causes a large flash which Dazzles everyone within 20ft (no Save) and melts/incinerates/generally shatters the item if it is none magical. It may stay bound to an item indefinitely, though it must make a Fort Save (DC 25- the Magmin's HD (minimum 0)) every 24 hours it is bound or be expelled without the Dazzle/destruction effect and is Fatigued.


I don't like the 'no save' part to that. Again, 'non-magical, not 'none magical'.


At 10HD it may melt into nonmagical items at will.


Eh, this just means it can sit in the scenery while burning stuff with impunity even more.


Inferno (Su): At 3rd level, 1/day for every 3HD it has the Magmin may turn itself purely to flame and explode itself. It affects all creatures within a 5ft/HD radius, causing 1d6/HD fire damage (DC 10+1/2 HD+Con Mod Ref Save for 1/2 damage) and igniting any unattended flammables. The area is considered difficult terrain until the Magmin's next turn and deals 1 point of fire damage/HD to any creature that ends it's turn within the area.

Difficult terrain? Why did you put that in? Apart from that, I don't really see why the magmin's doing phoenix-style explosions.



The Magmin is considered helpless, untargetable & nowhere until the start of it's next turn, at which point it reforms either where it exploded or in a pre-determined fire or fireplace. The Magmin must take a full round action in the presence of the fire/fireplace to attune to it. If the flame is gone when the Magin tries to reform then it must reform where it exploded. It may reform in a fireplace whether there is fire currently in it or not. It may only attune to one fire/fireplace at a time.

Again, a bit of "can't touch this" from the magmin, as well as a quick escape clause, which I actually quite like.

Kobold-Bard
2011-02-19, 03:01 PM
Got rid of the power to use abilities while inside an object, because Volt was right. I also defined "in the presence of" for Inferno.

I'll fix everything else later.

Benly
2011-02-19, 03:05 PM
Looking at Saguaro Sentinel, Pin Missile is supposed to be their option vs. flying enemies but at one shot every 2d4 rounds and losing a big chunk of your abilities it's not really much of an option. That combined with it being a mandatory AoE even to attack one flying enemy just ends up feeling... wasteful, I guess?

It would be nice if there was a single-target version that recharged faster and didn't use all your spikes at once. (Maybe stripping Needle Arms and Thorny Grasp from one of your slams each time you use it.)

FishAreWet
2011-02-19, 03:13 PM
Nay. The intent was that it'd be "If the opponent is suffering from poison from a prior bite attack (or another source), your bite attacks are unconfirmed crits."If the target's ability scores are currently damaged by a poison? Roger, that seems fair.


As far as poison goes, a question - I was under the impression that poison didn't stack, but if you bite someone who's suffered from poison, you can deal the initial poison damage each time (provided they fail that save). Reading the SRD, it isn't clear.Poison does stack. It's ability damage, it stacks like normal damage. Each time you hit the opponent it makes it's initial save, then 1 minute later makes another. If you bite it four times in one round it makes 4 initial saves and 4 secondary saves.

As far as the secondary damage being only icing on the cake, normally I would agree, however Brood Mother requires the opponent to fail a secondary saves. This generally means the only way to get these swarms is to capture an enemy for the purpose of spawning spiders. If this is on purpose and meant to function akin to Animate Dead and less like Summon Swarm then I think the Swarm should be permanent with the caveat that you may not have more then 4/HD many Swarms. If it's truly meant to function as Summon Swarm, either keep the ability to same and make the secondary save 1 round later, or allow the ability to function after only failing the initial save.

Gorgondantess
2011-02-19, 03:22 PM
Skeroloth:
Hmmm... Reduce the skill points to 4 or 6+int mod per level. It's a bit much.
Otherwise, looks good. All the abilities synergize really well. Do that, and it should be good to go.

Lodestone Marauder:
Must... refrain... from Miracles reference....:smalleek:
Eeeeenyhoo.
Lesser Magnetic Repulsion: one damage to whom?
...Otherwise, though, I think it's okay. Though I'd replace magneto-kinetic mastery with simply "telekinesis at will, metal objects only." Much simpler and much more versatile. And it also gives it an option against enemies that are not using metal objects.
Also, I keep thinking of a group using their lodestone marauder as the surface of a refrigerator, using scrap metal to stick notes and pictures and notices to it.:smalltongue:

Marrash:
Interesting monster.
Might want to reword proficiencies: first of all, tag it with Proficiencies:, and
crossbows and both Light Armour?
Disease healing:
and the use of this ability is not expanded.
Expended.
Double Bowfire: Ever seen that charop thing where the ranger fires something like 20 shots every round? Double it. With a single addition from manyshot, you're looking at 4 arrows as a standard action.:smalleek:
Tone it down. Something like one additional arrow in each attack, with no more than one additional arrow per round.
Or just say that it doesn't stack with manyshot, instead reducing the penalty by one arrow from that.


If the creature dies before the disease can be cursed
Cured.
Otherwise, looking good.

Medusa:
...I'll get to that.

Frog Dragon
2011-02-19, 03:47 PM
Skeroloth:
Hmmm... Reduce the skill points to 4 or 6+int mod per level. It's a bit much.
Otherwise, looks good. All the abilities synergize really well. Do that, and it should be good to go.
I can't really see why. The Skeloroth is supposed to fill the role of a rogue, and comparing to the rogue, it loses whatever racial abilities the rogue would have, but gains two natural attacks, a bonus to sneakery, better fort and natural armor. It does not gain trapfinding, and racial abilities can be a large boon indeed. The skeroloth also has less class skills.

In the end, it winds up a bit more powerful than the rogue, but less versatile, for various reasons. Since it's a skillmonkey who won't be getting racial traits, I think the 8+Int skill points is justified.

Gorgondantess
2011-02-19, 03:53 PM
I can't really see why. The Skeloroth is supposed to fill the role of a rogue, and comparing to the rogue, it loses whatever racial abilities the rogue would have, but gains two natural attacks, a bonus to sneakery, better fort and natural armor. It does not gain trapfinding, and racial abilities can be a large boon indeed. The skeroloth also has less class skills.

In the end, it winds up a bit more powerful than the rogue, but less versatile, for various reasons. Since it's a skillmonkey who won't be getting racial traits, I think the 8+Int skill points is justified.

I don't. It loses out on the passive abilities of the rogue that a level 1 wizard can deal with anyways and gains much, much more abilities to inflict sneak attack dice. And then next level it takes rogue for a total of +3d6 sneak attack AND trapfinding anyways, while still having all the abilities to set up sneak attack and a more potent sneak attack with 4 claws (eventually). Also, +3 dex trumps most other racial abilities.
The only racial abilities you could really be construed as "missing out on" I'd say would be whisper gnome, and that's generally regarded as cheesy anyways.

Frog Dragon
2011-02-19, 03:59 PM
Point taken. Reduced to 6+Int

ScionoftheVoid
2011-02-19, 06:22 PM
Lodestone Marauder:
Must... refrain... from Miracles reference....:smalleek:
Eeeeenyhoo.
Lesser Magnetic Repulsion: one damage to whom?
...Otherwise, though, I think it's okay. Though I'd replace magneto-kinetic mastery with simply "telekinesis at will, metal objects only." Much simpler and much more versatile. And it also gives it an option against enemies that are not using metal objects.
Also, I keep thinking of a group using their lodestone marauder as the surface of a refrigerator, using scrap metal to stick notes and pictures and notices to it.:smalltongue:

Fairly sure I wouldn't know what you were talking about if you did make a reference, so whatever.

One damage to anyone in its path to the edge of the area.

TK, metal-only would cut down on text, good idea.

Not necessarily a bad idea, at least until you get into combat. You could, however, use it Space Marine style, with metal seals holding on documents of your party's deeds, their deities' scriptures and the like.

I'll get it edited presently.

Lix Lorn
2011-02-19, 06:32 PM
Fairly sure I wouldn't know what you were talking about if you did make a reference, so whatever.
****ing magnets, how do they work?

Saidoro
2011-02-19, 09:41 PM
Monstrous Spider
HD: D6

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will |Special
1st|+0|+2|+2|+0| Spider Body, Bugbite, Web, +1 Dex
2nd|+1|+3|+3|+0| Silk Strand, Evasion, +1 Str, +1 Con
3rd|+2|+3|+3|+1| Arachnophobia I, Web Spinner, +1 Dex, +1 Con
4th|+3|+4|+4|+1| Growth, Skitter, +1 Str, +1 Dex
5th|+3|+4|+4|+1| Silk Skein, +1 Str, +1 Con
6th|+4|+5|+5|+2| Spiderbite, Uncanny Dodge, +1 Dex, +1 Con
7th|+5|+5|+5|+2| Growth II, Arachnophobia II, +1 Str, +1 Dex
8th|+6|+6|+6|+2| Weaver, Twitchleap, +1 Str, +1 Con
9th|+6|+6|+6|+3| Silk Lattice, +1 Dex, +1 Con
10th|+7|+7|+7|+3| Growth III, Eerie Chitter, +1 Str, +1 Dex
11th|+8|+7|+7|+3| Arachnid's Bite, Arachnophobia, +1 Str, +1 Con[/table]
Skill Points 4+Int per level
Class Skills: Climb, Balance, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Spot, Survival, Tumble, Use Rope.

Proficiencies: The Spider is proficient only with its own natural attacks.

Spider Body: The Monstrous Spider, hereafter referred to as the Spider, loses all other racial bonuses and gains traits of the Vermin type, granting her Darkvision 60'. Spiders are initially small sized creatures with a base movement speed of 30' and a climb speed of 20', possessing a bite attack that delivers 1d4 + Str mod damage and a poison, described in bugbite, below. Spiders have natural armor equal to their con modifiers.

Spiders do not speak. Those who spend at least a week in the Spider's company can learn to understand her body language and chittering enough to understand simple expressions such as 'danger', 'hate', 'gratitude' and the like. Spiders lack fine manipulation, but do have the ability to pick up one item and carry it, pull levers, and perform other simple actions (but still lack the ability to perform complex or delicate actions like wielding a weapon or taking an item in or out of a saddlebag). Not really a critique on this, just a comment on the current non-speaking setup in general: Should we be allowing characters with wild empathy to understand them right from the get-go?

Attribute Bonus: The Spider gains a bonus to Dexterity at every level except 2nd, 5th, 8th and 11th. They gain a bonus to Strength at every level except 1st, 3rd, 6th and 9th. They gain a bonus to Constitution at every level except 1st, 4th, 7th and 10th. This adds up to a total bonus of +7 Str, +7 Dex and +7 Con at 11th level.

Bugbite: The first level Spider sports a venomous bite. The nature of the venom depends on the Spider. In any event, the poison allows a Fortitude save, with a DC of 10 + ½ Spider HD + Spider's Con. On a failed saving throw, the victim takes attribute damage based on the Spider's HD as described on the table below:

{table=head]HD|Initial Damage|Secondary Damage
1|1d4|1d4
3|1d4|1d6
6|1d6|1d6
9|1d6|1d8
12|1d8|2d6
15|2d6|2d6
18|2d6|3d6[/table]
At first level, the Spider picks a physical attribute: Strength, Dexterity or Constitution. The poison deals ability damage to this attribute. At later levels, this poison can be enhanced with options chosen from Spiderbite and Arachnid Bite, with further possible options being included on the Arachnophobia lists. Why are they using the same poison advancement table as the wyvern when the entire point of a wyvern is how unusually powerful their poison is?

Web: The Monstrous Spider is notorious for the webs she uses to trap and entangle her foes. The spider gains one web use an hour, to a maximum number of stored uses equal to the Spider's HD or its Con mod, whichever is lower. Each time the Spider grows a size category, the maximum number of web uses is increased by 50%. This increase is additive, not cumulative, as detailed on the table below:

{table=head]Size|Maximum Web Uses Stored
Small|Equal to HD or Con, whichever is lower.
Medium|Equal to 1.5x HD or 1.5x Con mod, whichever is lower.
Large|Equal to 2x HD or 2x Con mod, whichever is lower.
Huge|Equal to 2.5x HD or 2.5x Con mod, whichever is lower.
Gargantuan|Equal to 3x HD or 3x Con mod, whichever is lower.
Colossal|Equal to 3.5x HD or 3.5x Con mod, whichever is lower.[/table]
The Spider may shoot webbing at a foe up to one size category larger than her as a standard action. Why only one category? It seems like they should be able to shoot web at anything, just not necasarily have it do much good. This spends one stored use of webbing and has a range increment of 10', to a maximum range of 50'. Shouldn't this increase as they get bigger? This is a ranged touch attack that entangles the target on a hit, much in the same manner as a net. Entangled creatures are entangled until they can make a successful Strength or Escape Artist check (DC 10 + ½ Spider's HD + Spider's Con mod). Does making this check require an action or is it just something that gets done as part of whatever else?

A strand with a base AC of 15 extends between the victim and the Spider, which can be cut with a slashing weapon by any non-entangled individual within reach. Though the strand initially has the consistency and thickness of rope, it has hardness equal to the Spider's HD, to a maximum of double the Spider's Con mod, and has 2hp per HD of the Spider. Cutting this strand does not free the victim from the entangled status, but it does disconnect the victim from the Spider, which may spare the victim some grief. As the Spider controls the length of the strand, the affected victim may not move beyond the limits of the Strand's length (which is whatever the distance between victim and Spider was when they were ensnared) unless they best the Spider in a Strength check, in which case they move half speed, dragging the Spider behind them. The Spider is similarly restricted in movement, but the Spider can disconnect the strand as a free action, and may thus avoid being dragged or free herself to move beyond the strand's limits by disconnecting herself if she so wishes.

ie. Muffet is a Monstrous Spider who successfully hits a hapless commoner, Brandon, with her webs from 20' away. Brandon may not move into any square more than 20' away from Muffet unless he makes and succeeds in an opposed Strength check. Succeeding in his strength check, he manages to drag himself 15', half his movement allowance of 30'. However, as he drags the spider behind himself, he fails to create a gap between himself and the vicious spider that seeks to devour him.
A Spider may only have a strand attached to one target at a given point in time. Spiders are immune to the movement impairing and entangling effects of all webs, be they natural or magically created.

Silk Strand: The second level Spider is adept at reeling in prey with its webbing and binding them. The Spider gains the following options when dealing with foes she has entangled with her webs:

Ensnaring Strand: The Spider may, as a standard action, fire off a single strand of web as a touch attack, adhering to a struck target. Treat this as a successful hit with Web, above, except the target is not entangled. This has half again as much range of a typical web attack, with 15' range increments and a maximum range of 75'. Unlike a Web attack, Ensnaring Strand only consumes a web use if the hit is successful. If they're not entangled couldn't they just cut themselves loose?

.
Reel In: The Spider may make an opposed strength check against a foe she has a strand attached to. If she succeeds, the foe is pulled 5' towards the Spider, plus an additional 5' for every 2 points the foe failed the Strength check. This takes up any slack in the webbing, setting the strand's length to the distance between the target and the Spider, with foes rendered unable to move further away from the Spider without making a Strength check (see Web, above, for more details on webs and limited range of movement). If the spider is above the foe, then the foe is lifted off the ground, suspended. The way this reads is a spider will always pull a victim it is above off the ground, but that doesn't make any sense if, say the spider is 15' off the ground and 15 horizontal feet away from a victim and only pulls them 10'. Similarly, if the foe is dragged off a ledge and there is not enough slack in the strand to let them touch ground, they hang in mid air, suspended. The suspended state translates to the foe being immobilized (unable to move from their current position) and flat footed until freed (or until they free themselves), and they hang in the air, moving when the Spider moves (typically hanging below her, but they may be raised or lowered, or move alongside her, depending on their position relative to hers).

The Spider can only suspend foes that she could otherwise lift. She cannot use Reel In to lift opponents off the ground if such would render her overly encumbered. If an opponent falls off a ledge, reaching the end of the strand's slack, and is too heavy for her to lift, she may either cut the strand and let them fall or be dragged off the ledge behind them.

.
Let Slack: The Spider lets the webbing loose to fall to the ground. She gives the victim anywhere from 5' to 15' of extra length to work with, effectively adding to their (and her own) range of movement. For those hanging suspended, this lowers them toward the ground. Until the target or the spider take up the slack again (moving to the limits of the strand's length), the strand cannot be effectively severed by anyone but the Spider. This is an immediate action.

Alternately, the Spider can fix herself to an object, a section of web, a wall or the ceiling and lower herself up to 15' as a move action. The Spider is flat footed in this state, but gains a bonus equal to ½ her HD to her Move Silently checks while approaching someone in this fashion.

.
Attach: The Spider attaches the web strand to an object. She may do this before, in the midst of, or after a move action, as a swift action. A victim that wishes to move no longer makes an opposed Strength check against the Spider, but a Strength check to snap the strand (DC 10 + 1½ Spider's HD + Spider's Con mod) or pull the object the strand is attached to (DC dependent on the nature and weight of the object).

.
Bind: The Spider creates slack in the webbing and loops it around an already ensnared target, trapping them under layers of the webbing. This is performed in the same manner as a use of Web, above, and consumes a use of webbing if successful. Rather than entangle the opponent, the Bind technique imposes a -2 penalty to Str and a -2 penalty to Dex for the bound foe, and lowers all of their movement speeds by 5' or 25% (rounding down to the nearest multiple of 5), whichever is more. Further, if the bound opponent is adjacent to an object which one could reach around if they so wished (the spider doesn't have to be that close, but she should be able to send slack strands more or less around the object) weave around or attach the strands to (such as a tree, a pillar, a rock, a statue), the entangled opponent is immobilized until they free themselves. This may be applied multiple times, and the penalties are cumulative. If the foe frees themselves from the entanglement, they also strip themselves free of the layers of binding.

A Spider that devours a bound foe or the discarded webbing left behind when a foe freed themselves also digests sufficient proteins from web and/or victim to regain one web usage for every two that were used to bind the target (including the initial use of web to ensnare them). This is a standard action.

Evasion: The senses and reflexes of the second level Spider are exceedingly fine tuned, with fine hairs on the Spider's body alerting her to the most subtle shifts in the air and the vermin's reflexes allowing a near instantaneous response to a sensed threat. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the Spider is unarmored and at less than medium encumbrance. A helpless Spider does not gain the benefit of evasion.

If a Spider already has evasion from a different source, she automatically gains improved evasion instead. If she already has that, she gains a bonus feat.

Arachnophobia I: The third level spider features a unique trait specific to her environment or her particular species of spider, rarely pleasant. See the lists below:

Pick One:
Enzyme: The Spider's poison causes tissue necrosis as digestive elements in the poison eat the flesh, causing tissues to dissolve in much the same way as if it were rotting away or being digested. For every point of ability damage an opponent sustains from the Spider's poison, that opponent takes 1 point of necrosis damage, which can only be healed naturally and only when both the poison and ability damage are mended. This is very mild.

.
Brood Mother: The Spider's poison contains egg sacs. Unwitting victims are in for a grim surprise when the poison sets in and the egg sacs hatch. Should a poisoned victim fail the save against both initial and secondary damage, a multitude of tiny spiders erupt from their body, exiting by way of the nearest orifice - typically the bite wound, but some are bound to travel in the blood stream or the like, making their departure by way of the nose, mouth, ears, tear duct or nether regions. This is effectively a Summon Swarm spell, summoning spiders in the affected enemy's square, but is an extraordinary effect. The victim sustains 1d6 damage per 2 HD of the Spider, and one swarm is summoned for every 4HD of the spider. The swarm does not attack the Spider or her close allies, as they detect pheromones that mark these individuals as family. The Swarm thereafter follows their mother for 1 hour per 2HD of the Spider, after which time most die of exposure, and the remainder scatter to the dark, moist corners of their current environment. Most, thereafter, become prey for local rats and birds. Even so, a small handful invariably survive and grow into Monstrous Spiders like their mother. And this is very powerful. the spider will almost always be walking around with swarms of kiddies following them around which many monsters may not be equipped to handle. Not to mention the spider who buys 20 cows before going adventuring and bites all of them immediately before facing the BBEG.

.
Tarsus Impaler: The Spider gains two claw attacks as secondary weapons, each dealing only 1d4-2 + ½ Str mod piercing damage. However, a Spider that catches an opponent when they are not gaining their dexterity to armor class - by virtue of being denied dexterity to AC, such as by being flat footed, or due to the fact that their effective dexterity is too low to grant a positive bonus to AC - can take a full round action to attempt impaling them with the pointed end of her leg. This special claw 'impaler' attack (a single secondary attack made as a full round action) deals 2d6 + 2x Str mod damage to the victim, +1d6 damage for every size category the Spider is larger than small. Opponents who are struck in this manner are immobilized until the spider withdraws her leg from their body (a free action on the Spider's part) or they make a strength check to free themselves (DC 10 + ½ Spider's HD + Spider's Str mod +2 for each leg after the first that has impaled them). Does this automatically use both your claw attacks? can you choose whether you use one or both?

.
Razor Tangle: The taut line of the Spider's Web is akin to razor wire. An entangled opponent who fails a Strength check against the spider (such as in an attempt to move or an attempt to resist being dragged) or who fails to free himself from the web (by way of escape artist or strength check) sustains 1d6 slashing damage per 3HD of the spider. Does a character who fails their strength check to break free of the web take damage from both triggers? Further, a Clotheslined opponent (see the 5th level ability, Silk Skein, below) who rolls a 1 on the Reflex save is decapitated by the razor strand. This chance increases by 1 per 5HD of the spider (ie. decapitation on a 1 or a 2 at 5HD, a 1, 2 or 3 at 10HD, and so on).

Web Spinner: Starting at third level, the Spider can spin sheets of webs. Spinning a web is a full round action that consumes one of the Spider's web uses and either covers 15' in tiles, +5' per size category of the Spider, or stretches between two points that the Spider moves between in a given round, to a maximum of 15' +5' per size category of the Spider. A Spider resting on an existing web may extend the perimeter by the same amount with another web usage and a full round action. After use, as an action taking one minute, the Spider can consume the softest parts of the web, regaining one web use for every two consumed in the web's production, destroying the web in the process. Creatures who approach the web must succeed on a Spot check (DC 10 + ½ Spider's HD + Spider's Dex mod) to notice the web.

Those who fail to notice the web are more likely to stumble into it. In any event, any individual that moves into the webbed spaces becomes entangled as though struck by a successful web attack, albeit with no strand connecting them to the Spider.

Growth: A fourth level Spider grows a size category, typically to medium size. Her reach, grapple modifiers, natural attack damage and skills change accordingly, but she doesn't gain any ability score bonuses or penalties.

Further, the Spider grows again at a later date. When she achieves 13HD, she grows another size category in the same fashion.

Skitter: The fourth level Spider is capable of moving across a variety of surfaces, including walls. She gains two mobility benefits:

The Spider can run and charge while climbing, and can segue between a climb and a run (to a maximum distance equal to double its climb speed) as part of a charge action. Changing the angle of the charge (ie. going from running on the ceiling to the wall to the floor) does not count against the Spider for the purposes of needing to charge in a straight line. I'm so going to need to clarify this.

.
The lightweight body of the Spider, coupled with the ability for its legs to brace itself, means she takes damage from falls and impacts (such as being slammed into a wall or thrown) in the form of 1d4s rather than 1d6s. For each size category the Spider grows beyond Medium, she reduces all fall damage by 1 point and the size of the fall damage dice by one step (ie. from 1d4 at medium to 1d3 at large, 1d2 at huge and 1 point thereafter). The bigger they are the softer they fall?

Silk Skein: A Spider of fifth level or higher gains the ability to use further techniques with her web. She adds the following abilities to her repertoire:

Jerk Line: The Spider can attempt to trip an enemy she has a web strand attached to, even from a distance as far as fifty feet away. This is a standard action involving a dexterity check opposed by the opponent's choice of Strength or Dexterity check. The standard size modifiers apply. This provokes no attack of opportunity and opponents do not get a trip attack against the Spider should she fail.

.
Whip Cord: The Spider heaves a strand of silk so it snaps near the far end, forcing an enemy to stumble. As a standard action, the Spider makes an opposed Strength check against a foe she has a strand attached to. If she succeeds, the foe staggers 5' for every 3 points she beat the opponent's result by, to a maximum of 15'. The Spider determines the direction of the stagger, and foes that strike a wall, solid object or another individual must make a reflex save (DC 10 + ½ Spider's HD + Spider's Str) or fall prone. Individuals who face collision by a Whip Corded enemy but who make their reflex save do not fall prone. Enemies who stumble off a ledge may become suspended, as described in Silk Strand, above.

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Clothesline: A Spider may take any slack strand of webbing that is firmly connected to another source and draw it tight, impeding the movement of a foe that would move between her and her entangled victim (or a terrain feature, if she attached the cord to such earlier) and potentially causing them to fall. This uses the same mechanics as Jerk Line, only it affects the foe who would move through the area between the Spider and the other end of her strand. Even for foes who succeed, the tiles with the strand in them become difficult terrain. Using Clothesline is an immediate action that also forfeits the Spider's swift action for her next turn.

.
Pendulum Swing: A Spider who has an enemy suspended below her may swing the opponent like a pendulum as a standard action. She makes a Strength check against a DC of 15. On a success, she swings the opponent 5' in the direction of her choice, plus an additional 5' for every 3 points she beat the DC by, to a maximum distance of ½ the Strand's slack. If the Spider adds slack to the Strand, then the swing distance is increased accordingly.

ie. Muffet the Spider has Brandon the hapless commoner entangled, hanging 30' below her. She may swing Brandon 15' (half of 30') in any direction. Muffet adds 10' of slack to the Strand, and Brandon's subsequent swings carry him 20' (half of 40') to either side.
On their turn, the opponent swings back the same distance, in the direction they came. Thereafter, on both the Spider's and the Victim's turns (until the Spider drops the foe or uses another Swing action to cancel out the momentum) the opponent will move that set distance either to the extreme of the Strand's limits or back to the point below the Spider. So they just keep swinging forever? Sticky webs attached to heavy spiders or unyielding rocks are not efficient machines.

Continuing our example above, Brandon would, on his turn, swing 15' back to the point below the spider. On Muffet's next turn, he would swing 15' in the direction opposite the angle he originally swung, and so the process would continue back and forth until Muffet grew tired of tormenting him and devoured him messily.
If the swinging foe strikes an object, wall or another individual on the initial swing, they take falling damage as though they had fallen the base swing distance. On subsequent swings, the victim counts as though they had fallen twice the base swing distance. Struck targets also take the falling damage, but get a reflex save (10 + ½ Spider HD + Spider's Str) to avoid, which prevents damage to both themselves and the makeshift pendulum if successful.

Muffet Swings Brandon 20' into a wall. He takes 2d6 falling damage. His turn passes (he swings to a point below Muffet) and on her next turn, he continues swinging, slamming into the wall on the other side of the room. This swing, and all subsequent swings, deal 4d6 falling damage.
A foe disconnected in the process of swinging continues traveling in the direction he or she was last swinging as she falls, adding the swing distance to the fallen distance for the purposes of calculating fall damage.

A Spider that hangs from a Strand is free to swing herself in the same manner, if she so wishes.


Spiderbite: The sixth level spider gains the ability to make iterative bite attacks against entangled foes. Further, she may enhance her poison with an option from the list below:

The DC of the Fortitude save increases by 2.
The Poison deals +2 Str, Dex or Con damage (whichever attribute was chosen to apply to poison at first level) as part of the initial and secondary damage.
The Spider's poison corrodes the enemy's armor,lowering their AC by 1d4 on a successful bite attack. To undo the effect, the armor must be repaired (for removable armor) or healed like ability damage (for natural armor).
The bite damage is considered to be vile damage and 1/3rd of the ability damage is Str, Dex or Con drain (round up), instead.
Bite attacks on already poisoned foes allow a saving throw (same DC as the poison), with failure causing the victim to become fatigued and sickened for as long as the poison lasts, as the Spider overloads their systems with venom. Subsequent attacks can (again, allowing a saving throw) cause the victim to become either exhausted for 1 hour or nauseated for 1d3 rounds (Spider's choice).

Uncanny Dodge: Starting at sixth level, a Spider can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.

If a Spider already has uncanny dodge from a different source, she automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead. If she already has that, she gains a bonus feat.

Growth II: A seventh level Spider grows a size category, typically to large size. Her reach, grapple modifiers, natural attack damage and skills change accordingly, but she doesn't gain any ability score bonuses or penalties.

Further, the Spider grows again at a later date. When she achieves 16HD, she grows another size category in the same fashion.

Arachnophobia II: The seventh level spider gains another a unique capability specific to her environment or her particular species of spider. See the list below:

Pick One:
Silent Skirr: The Spider suffers no penalty to hide or move silently for running or fighting. Okay, so the guards won't here the spider hitting the guard at the gate. They'll just hear the guard getting hit. (Or hitting back if he has time.)

.
Ebon Carapace: The Spider has concealment at all times. In shadow, she has total concealment. The Spider gains a +2 bonus to Hide.

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Gossamer Strand: Whenever the Spider uses Web or Ensnaring Strand, she also produces a cloud of gossamer webbing, fine as human hair, that sticks to her target, every tile her strand or web passed over, and every tile adjacent to both target and affected tiles. Objects in the affected area are webbed down and anyone attempting to retrieve or pick up affected items or operate any machinery (including complex machinery such as a crank or simple machines such as doors) covered must make a Strength check (DC 10 + ½ Spider's HD + Spider's Con) as a standard action or fail to budge the item in question. Machinery that works on its own (such as a trap) and ranged weapons (such as a bow or crossbow) have a 50% chance to fail with use. Affected foes who attempt to drop items, pick up items, access their inventory or remove belongings or clothing from their person have a 25% chance to fail, though they may attempt, as a standard action, a Strength check as described above to rip the item, weapon, flap or clothing free.

Finally, opponents who are entangled by a web attack augmented by Gossamer Strand also begin to suffocate. As the strands bind to one another and grow ever tighter in the face of struggling, each failed check or save made while entangled and suffocating in this manner reduces the victim's remaining breath by two rounds.

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Arachnophobia I: Any ability from the Arachnophobia I list the Spider does not already have.

Weaver: Spiders of eighth level and higher weave their webs with what can only be called art. The Spider may have strands attached to multiple targets at the same time. Any techniques from the Silk line of abilities (Silk Strand, Silk Skein, Silk Lattice) can be used with multiple targets, select targets or just one target. For example, Reel In can be used to draw in every foe the Spider has a strand attached to, some or just one of them. In any event, for contested rolls affecting multiple foes, the foe with the highest modifier makes the opposed roll, with a +1 bonus for every +2 points of relevant ability modifier the other affected targets have.

ie. Brandon, already ensnared and entangled, watches in horror as Buttons, his cute puppy, and Fiona-May, his lady love, are ensnared by the Spider. The Spider uses Reel In to draw them closer. Brandon has a +3 Strength modifier, Buttons has a -1 and Fiona May has a +2. Fiona-May helps Brandon pull against the strands, granting Brandon a +1 (half of Fiona May's +2 Strength modifier) bonus, for a total of +4. Given that the Spider has a Strength modifier of +7, Brandon's future looks rather grim.
Further, the Ensnaring Strand ability (see Silk Strand) can now be used to target up to three foes with a single action. These foes must be within 10' of one another. So, could this be used together with pendulum swing to make one of those pendulum desk toys?:smallbiggrin:

Twitchleap: The Spider, once she has reached eighth level, may leap across the battlefield with surprising agility. Her jump height is not capped by her movement speed. As far as I can tell, jump height is never capped by move speed. I've seen a few references to this sort of ability, but never in official publications and the actual jump skill says nothing of the sort. At 14HD, the DC for jump checks is halved.

Silk Lattice: At ninth level, the Spider adds two more techniques to her repertoire:

Elastic Strand: By spending a web use, the Spider can move from the floor to any point on a wall or ceiling within 50', from the wall to any point on the floor or ceiling within 50', or from the ceiling to any point on a wall or floor within 50'. This is a move action, and by using it, she takes a -2 penalty to attacks and her AC until the start of her next turn.

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Grasping Glob: The Spider targets an item a foe carries, rather than the foe themselves, with the sticky end of a strand of web. This operates as a disarm attempt, only the Spider provokes no attack of opportunity, her opposed attack roll is ranged, and she cannot (obviously) be disarmed in retaliation. This ability consumes a web use if successful, pulling the seized item 10' towards the Spider or to the midpoint between herself and the foe, whichever is further.

Growth III: A tenth level Spider grows a size category, typically to huge size. Her reach, grapple modifiers, natural attack damage and skills change accordingly, but she doesn't gain any ability score bonuses or penalties.

Eerie Chitter: A Monstrous Spider of tenth level may haunt enemies with eerie noises that echo through the surroundings. Eerie Chitter requires a swift action, and forces every enemy in earshot to make a Will save (DC 10 + ½ Spider's HD + Spider's Cha) or be shaken. Opponents who cannot see the Spider suffer a -4 circumstance penalty. Those who fail their save by 5 or more are panicked instead. This almost seems like it should work better when they CAN'T see you. The monster you can't find is often the scariest of all.

Arachnid's Bite: The eleventh level Monstrous Spider has more dangerous bites, extending the benefits granted by Bugbite and Spiderbite, above. Pick one:

The Spider's poison imposes a negative level on foes failing the initial saving throw.
The Spider's bite paralyzes foes for 1 round if they fail the initial save against poison.
The poison deals Int, Wis or Cha damage equal to half of whatever physical ability damage it causes (the choice of mental stat is made once and applies to the poison thereafter), rounding down.
The bite increases in damage as though the Spider grew by one size category, and its critical threat range increases by one step.

Arachnophobia III: The eleventh level spider gains a final unique trait specific to her particular approach. See the list below:

Pick one:
Hunter's Mandibles: The Spider treats all successful bite attacks against poisoned foes as unconfirmed critical hits.

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Lurker's Mandibles: The Spider treats all successful bite attacks against entangled foes as unconfirmed critical hits.

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Arachnophobia I, II: Any ability from the Arachnophobia I or Arachnophobia II lists the Spider does not already have.



Comments in blue.
Not sure if this is in-depth enough to qualify for the reciprocal in-depth review, if it is I'd prefer to hold onto it until I get the Chuul up.

FishAreWet
2011-02-19, 10:25 PM
@Twitchleap, maximum jumping height was in 3.0 and removed in the transition.

Hyudra
2011-02-19, 11:47 PM
Not really a critique on this, just a comment on the current non-speaking setup in general: Should we be allowing characters with wild empathy to understand them right from the get-go?

Makes sense. But I think that's more a feature of wild empathy than a thing that would need to be clarified as part of the mute monster bit.


Why are they using the same poison advancement table as the wyvern when the entire point of a wyvern is how unusually powerful their poison is?

Because Gorgondantess suggested to one or two other people that they use the poison advancement system, and it stuck. The Wyvern does get abilities at later levels that let them advance their poison considerably.

Still, it's my intent to offer reduced numbers for Con damage, so the Wyvern still would have excellent poison advancement for one of the most effective types of attribute damage.


Why only one category? It seems like they should be able to shoot web at anything, just not necasarily have it do much good.

It's a part of the original monster, and makes sense thematically. You only have so much web, and to entangle - as in literally tangle up with web - a colossal creature as a small spider stretches the suspension of belief.


Does making this check require an action or is it just something that gets done as part of whatever else?

I'll clarify.


If they're not entangled couldn't they just cut themselves loose?

Yes, but that takes an action, and denying an action to an opponent is still a ok effect for something that requires only a ranged touch attack. Plus, there's not necessarily a guarantee they'll cut through the strand on their first attempt (ok, it's likely, but still).


The way this reads is a spider will always pull a victim it is above off the ground, but that doesn't make any sense if, say the spider is 15' off the ground and 15 horizontal feet away from a victim and only pulls them 10'

True.


@ Enzyme: This is very mild.

@ Brood Mother: And this is very powerful. the spider will almost always be walking around with swarms of kiddies following them around which many monsters may not be equipped to handle. Not to mention the spider who buys 20 cows before going adventuring and bites all of them immediately before facing the BBEG.

So noted. I'll see about tweaking them and solving the cow problem.


@Tarsus Impaler: Does this automatically use both your claw attacks? can you choose whether you use one or both?

I thought it was pretty clearly stated ("a single secondary attack made as a full round action"), but I'll clarify if people are getting confused.


Does a character who fails their strength check to break free of the web take damage from both triggers?

Will clarify.


@ Pendulum: So they just keep swinging forever? Sticky webs attached to heavy spiders or unyielding rocks are not efficient machines.

Yeah, but getting into loss of momentum seemed like it would be a bit much for an already complicated ability.


@ Silent Skirr: Okay, so the guards won't here the spider hitting the guard at the gate. They'll just hear the guard getting hit. (Or hitting back if he has time.)

I'll clarify that there's no noise upon the guard getting hit. The rest, well, it makes no sense.


@ Weaver: So, could this be used together with pendulum swing to make one of those pendulum desk toys?

Yes, yes it could.


As far as I can tell, jump height is never capped by move speed. I've seen a few references to this sort of ability, but never in official publications and the actual jump skill says nothing of the sort.

I could've sworn I read the SRD not 3 months ago and read something about jump height being capped by move speed. I'll work something out.


This almost seems like it should work better when they CAN'T see you. The monster you can't find is often the scariest of all.

That's how it works. Reread?


...

Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated. I'll do a critique as soon as your Chuul is done.

Tacitus
2011-02-20, 12:00 AM
On the jumping thing, you may have read that distance traveled in a single round cannot exceed your movement speed, else you must spend a move action in the following round to complete your jump, mystically hanging in the air until your turn comes around again.

Hyudra
2011-02-20, 12:38 AM
Spider (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10404448&postcount=542) Changes, February 19, 2011:
Con based poison now deals less poison damage, as it's the best stat to target. This means spider doesn't outclass Wyvern, and there's more of a choice between the stats.
Clarified that escaping webs requires a standard action.
Clarified the 'lift the foe off the ground' effect of Reel in, for spiders above the foe.
Enzyme tweaked, so it now imposes Wis or Cha penalties due to the pain/scarring.
Brood Mother tweaked. It's now a 1/hour ability, and I slowed the rate of gaining additional swarms, clarified it only deals the damage once, and qualified that only enemies worthy of granting CR will allow for swarm creation.
Clarified the detail on Razor Tangle, where RAW, they took damage twice for failing a strength check to free themselves.
Clarified/buffed Silent Skirr, adding that attacking, using abilities and foes being attacked by the spider makes no noise.
Twitchleap changed. Now halves DCs for jump checks, and gives the Spider bonus movement for the purposes of counting how far Jump carries her in a given turn.
Clarified Hunter's Bite, stressing that the Spider gets the unconfirmed crit against any foe that has failed an initial save against poison and is awaiting secondary damage, and that it applies only if the poison was applied by a previous bite attack or another source (so you can't deliver poison and then get a potential crit in the same bite. Shouldn't need to be said, given the order of such things, but clarified anyways).
Weaver now grants a way around freedom of movement. Such foes still get a bonus to AC vs. the ranged touch attack of web/strand and a bonus to escape artist.
Arachnid's Bite at 11th level now grants a way around poison immunity, poison resistance.

I'll do my promised critiques for those that've done in depth critiques tomorrow.

FishAreWet
2011-02-20, 11:04 AM
Con based poison now deals less poison damage, as it's the best stat to target. This means spider doesn't outclass Wyvern, and there's more of a choice between the stats.
Clarified that escaping webs requires a standard action.
Clarified the 'lift the foe off the ground' effect of Reel in, for spiders above the foe.
Enzyme tweaked, so it now imposes Wis or Cha penalties due to the pain/scarring.
Brood Mother tweaked. It's now a 1/hour ability, and I slowed the rate of gaining additional swarms, clarified it only deals the damage once, and qualified that only enemies worthy of granting CR will allow for swarm creation.
Clarified the detail on Razor Tangle, where RAW, they took damage twice for failing a strength check to free themselves.
Clarified/buffed Silent Skirr, adding that attacking, using abilities and foes being attacked by the spider makes no noise.
Twitchleap changed. Now halves DCs for jump checks, and gives the Spider bonus movement for the purposes of counting how far Jump carries her in a given turn.
Clarified Hunter's Bite, stressing that the Spider gets the unconfirmed crit against any foe that has failed an initial save against poison and is awaiting secondary damage, and that it applies only if the poison was applied by a previous bite attack or another source (so you can't deliver poison and then get a potential crit in the same bite. Shouldn't need to be said, given the order of such things, but clarified anyways).
Weaver now grants a way around freedom of movement. Such foes still get a bonus to AC vs. the ranged touch attack of web/strand and a bonus to escape artist.
Arachnid's Bite at 11th level now grants a way around poison immunity, poison resistance.

Level 18 of Con damage is a typo. Meant to be 2d6, right?
Roger
Roger
Still weak compared to Brood Mother, but a passable ability
"You may never have HD/4 many Swarms under your control at one time. If more swarms are created then you lose control of the old ones." I think that is a more elegant way to avoid Swarm armies. And it allows the Spider to keep pulling Swarms out of creatures, a neat ability, with no intention of creating Swarm armies. I stand by that either it shouldn't require Secondary or Secondary should be moved. Note my Summon Swarm vs Animate Dead analogy.
Roger
I like this ability, good change.
Roger.
Roger
Good! This is always an issue with monster classes.
And it's the one almost everyone will take. Glad this was added.

Hyudra
2011-02-20, 11:29 AM
"You may never have HD/4 many Swarms under your control at one time. If more swarms are created then you lose control of the old ones." I think that is a more elegant way to avoid Swarm armies. And it allows the Spider to keep pulling Swarms out of creatures, a neat ability, with no intention of creating Swarm armies. I stand by that either it shouldn't require Secondary or Secondary should be moved. Note my Summon Swarm vs Animate Dead analogy.

It should be stressed that you don't have control over the swarms, technically. I'll add the cap, instead.



And it's the one almost everyone will take. Glad this was added.


Out of curiosity, what if it was (to paraphrase):
Hunter's Mandibles: Attacks on poisoned enemies are unconfirmed crits.
Lurker's Mandibles: Attacks on entangled foes are confirmed crits.

Just to make the bite vs. the entangled more tempting?

In any event:

Spider (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10404448#post10404448) Changes, February 19, 2011 (#2):
Poison damage progression for the con type damage changed. I aimed for it to be just one step behind the Str/Dex damage (or 3HD behind in terms of progression rate), but I'd missed the fact that it jumps just a bit midway through. Simultaneously fixed a typo where I had 1d6 con damage at 18HD instead of 1d8 (it now does 2d6/2d6 con damage at 18)
Set a cap of 1 swarm per 4HD on the Brood Mother ability. Changed the duration limit to 1 hour per 5HD.

FishAreWet
2011-02-20, 12:06 PM
The comment about everyone taking it was meant to be overcoming Poison Immunity. I think the choice between Poison/Entanged unconfirmed criticals is fair.

Hyudra
2011-02-20, 12:11 PM
Ah. Well, if you read the ability Arachnid's Bite, you'd see that everyone does get it. You just pick the other bonus effect from the list.

FishAreWet
2011-02-20, 12:39 PM
You caught me, I didn't go reread it. I only read your changelog. :smallredface: I think you did a great job with this creature. I thought it was a boring concept but you really brought some creative concepts to the table and I think this class would be a blast to play.

Hyudra
2011-02-20, 12:45 PM
You caught me, I didn't go reread it. I only read your changelog. :smallredface: I think you did a great job with this creature. I thought it was a boring concept but you really brought some creative concepts to the table and I think this class would be a blast to play.

Thank you. It's what I aim for - I strive for monsters that I would want to play for a complete campaign arc or longer.

Which makes me feel like I failed somewhere along the line with Mephit, Ogre and Annis Hag (and to a lesser extent, Kuo-Toa). I don't feel like I'd necessarily jump at the chance to play a game with those, so I kind of want to go back to them at some point.

Saidoro
2011-02-20, 06:06 PM
Chuul
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG35b.jpg

Hit Dice: d8



Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Class Features


1st

+0

+2

+0

+2
Chuul Body, Improved Grab, Grim Origin, +1 str


2nd

+1

+3

+0

+3
Tentacles, Constrict, +1 con, +1 origin


3rd

+2

+3

+1

+3
Toxic, Grim Advancement I, +1 str


4th

+3

+4

+1

+4
Entangling Tentacles, Human shield, +1 con, +1 origin


5th

+3

+4

+1

+4
Growth, Grim Advancement II, +1 str


6th

+4

+5

+2

+5
Throw, +1 con, +1 origin


7th

+5

+5

+2

+5
Paralytic Tentacles, Grim Perfection, +1 str


Skills Points at first Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier) x 4
Skills Points at Each Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier)
Class Skills: The chuul’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Hide (Dex), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Spot (Wis) and Swim (Str).

Proficiencies: The chuul gains proficiency with its natural weapons.

Chuul Class Features: The following are the Class Features of the chuul.

Chuul Body: The chuul loses all other racial traits and acquires aberration traits, giving it darkvision 60 ft. Chuuls start as medium creatures with a base land speed of 30 ft and a base swim speed of 20 ft. Chuuls have 2 primary natural claw attacks dealing 1d8+str damage. Chuuls get a natural armor bonus equal to their constitution modifier. Chuuls have the aquatic subtype and the amphibious special quality, allowing it to survive equally well on land or in the water.

Improved Grab: When a chuul hits with a claw attack they may attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking attacks of opportunity.
If a creature with this special attack hits with a melee weapon (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. No initial touch attack is required.

Unless otherwise noted, improved grab works only against opponents at least one size category smaller than the creature. The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used in the improved grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a -20 penalty on grapple checks, but is not considered grappled itself; the creature does not lose its Dexterity bonus to AC, still threatens an area, and can use its remaining attacks against other opponents.

A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature’s descriptive text).

When a creature gets a hold after an improved grab attack, it pulls the opponent into its space. This act does not provoke attacks of opportunity. It can even move (possibly carrying away the opponent), provided it can drag the opponent’s weight.

Grim Origin: Chuuls are not a single race, and there are many ways they can come about. A chuul selects a single origin at first level and gains its benefits.

Dweller of Primordial Seas: Chuuls of this origin come from another time or another place, somewhere where the rules of reality are somewhat different than those of our world. The chuul may warp the space making up its own form allowing it to manifest expansion and compression as psi-like abilities once per day per 2 HD(drawing from a common pool of uses). Unlike normal the chuul may choose not to have these abilities change its weight, only its volume. Additionally the chuul may choose to ignore the frail power of the gods, gaining spell resistance 10+HD against divine spells only. Chuuls with this background get attribute bonuses to their charisma and have the knowledge(the planes) skill added to their skill list.

Twisted Cultist: Chuuls of this origin have pledged their service to a dark master from beyond the world and have been twisted into a new form to better serve their master's goals. The chuul may choose 2 1st level spells from the cleric spell list or from the chaos, death, destruction or evil domains to use as spell-like abilities once per day per 2 HD(drawing from a common pool of uses). Also, a chuul who multiclasses into cleric can count his chuul levels as levels of that class for purposes of CL and for the purposes of learning new spells and getting new spell slots. So for example, a chuul 3 who took 1 level of cleric could choose to have CL 4, get 1 new 1st, 2nd, and 0th level spell slot per day. He wouldn't get the spell knowns and spell slots of a cleric 3 however. He would get the turn or rebuke undead ability, but chuul levels wouldn't count for it. If a chuul selected a spell like ability from a certain domain and later multiclasses into cleric they must take that domain as one of their chosen domains. Chuuls of this origin get attribute bonuses to wisdom and have the knowledge(religion) skill added to their skill list.

Experiment Gone Awry: Chuuls of this origin are either the creations of some sort of magic user or the descendants of such. These chuuls are able to rage as a barbarian of their level, and if they later take levels in barbarian their chuul levels and barbarian levels stack for the purposes of gaining rage or abilities that directly modify rage(such as greater rage). The chuul has also built up an amount of resistance to the arcane, gaining spell resistance 10+hd against arcane spells. This sort of chuul gets 4+int skill points per level instead of 2+int. Chuuls of this origin get attribute bonuses to strength and have climb, handle animal, intimidate, jump, and survival added to their class skill list.


Attribute bonus: The chuul gets +1 to strength at every odd class level and +1 to con at every even level. Additionally, it gets +1 to one other attribute score at every even class level, what score is increased is determined by the chuul's Grim Origin.

Constrict: Beginning at second level the chuul deals 2d6+str damage with any successful grapple check. The chuul cannot deal constrict damage to a foe on the round they initiate a grapple with that foe.

Tentacles: Starting at second level the chuul can transfer grabbed victims from its claws to its tentacles as a move action. The tentacles grapple with the same strength as the claws but deal no damage and cannot constrict. The chuul may choose to count as not grappled by a creature held in its tentacles by taking a -10 to its grapple checks(instead of the -20 allowed by improved grab). Victims held in the tentacles take 1d6+½str damage each round from the chuul's mandibles.

Toxic: At third level the chuul becomes immune to poison. Also, it develops a number of internal venom sacs equal to its constitution modifier each of which may hold a single dose of poison. The chuul may store a single dose of venom in one of these sacs by drinking it as a standard action and may then chose to dribble that poison onto any creature held in its tentacles as a swift action.
At 5 HD the chuul may choose to coat one of its claws in venom as a move action.
At 7 HD coating a claw in venom becomes a swift action and dribbling poison onto a held creature is a free action only usable once per round.

Grim Advancement I: At third level the chuul's body or mind changes, granting it more power. The chuul may select a single ability from the below list for which it qualifies.
Horrid Spines: The chuul gains a set of organic armor spikes that deal damage as a creature one size category larger (1d6 damage for a medium chuul). Additionally, the chuul can choose to launch its spikes at those around it as a standard action, dealing 1d6 damage per 2 HD to each creature within 20 ft of the chuul. Using this second ability causes the chuul to lose its spikes until they are regrown 1 hour later.
At 5 HD the chuul gains the ability to apply a dose of poison stored in one of its venom sacs to its spines as a move action. A poison so applied will affect the next target struck by the armor spikes or all targets struck if the chuul launches its spines.

Lurking Predator: A chuul with this ability is considered to have concealment (20% miss chance) whenever at least half of its body is submerged in liquid. Additionally, when fully submerged it gains total concealment against any creature not also fully submerged (and it still gains concealment against those who are). Finally, the chuul adds 1d8 damage of the same sort their attack normally deals to all attacks against flat footed enemies. This increases by 1d8 at 10 HD and every 7 HD thereafter.

Regenerative Fury: (Requires Experiment Gone Awry) When a chuul with this ability rages any hitpoints gained from their increased constitution modifier are treated as temporary hitpoints and are lost before other hitpoints. Additionally, the chuul regains a number of hitpoints each round it is raging equal to half its HD. If it is fully healed it instead gains that many temporary hitpoints up to a maximum of 2*its HD(these stack with other sources of temporary hitpoints). Finally, the chuul gains the ability to rage an additional time per day.

Otherworldly Preacher: (Requires Twisted Cultist) A chuul with this ability gains a number of free ranks in diplomacy equal to its level in the chuul class(this does not scale after it is gained) and has diplomacy added to its class skill list. Additionally, the chuul may use their diplomacy modifier in the place of their intimidate modifier at any time.

One Among Many: (Requires Dweller of Primordial Seas) A chuul with this ability is not so much a singular creature as it is the mouthpiece of millions of identical siblings in another plane. Once per day for every three HD it has, the chuul may allow its siblings to reach through it as a swift action, granting the chuul 2 additional claw attacks for one round. Additionally, the chuul never loses levels for being brought back from the dead and can always be brought back even if its soul was trapped/consumed/destroyed.

Entangling Tentacles: At fourth level the chuul's toxic tentacles begin to slow its victims. Each round a creature held in the chuul's tentacles must make a fortitude save vs poison with a save DC of 10+½HD+Con modifier or be entangled for 6 rounds.

Human Shield: Beginning at fourth level the chuul can move opponents in such a way as to catch blows as an immediate action. When a creature is grappled by the chuul the chuul may attempt to move that creature between it and the first attack it was aware of made against it in a round. To do so the chuul must make an opposed grapple check with the creature, if it succeeds the grappled creature takes the full affects of the attack instead of the chuul. The grapple check made as part of this ability does not deal constrict damage if successful.

Growth: At fifth level the chuul grows to large size(long). Its reach, grapple modifiers, natural attack damage and skills change accordingly, but it doesn't gain any ability score bonuses or penalties.

Grim Advancement II: At fifth level the chuul's changes continue, further modifying what it is. The chuul may select a single ability from the below list or from the Grim Advancement I list for which it qualifies.
Grasping Tentacles: The chuul gains a tentacles secondary natural attack dealing 1d8+½str modifier bludgeoning damage for a large creature. The chuul may use improved grab with this attack, and creatures so grabbed are automatically held by the chuul's tentacles. Creatures held in the chuul's tentacles automatically take damage equal to the damage dealt from this attack every round in addition to other effects.

Gather the Choir: (Requires Twisted Cultist) The chuul gains the ability to rebuke aberrations in the same manner as an evil cleric rebukes undead. The chuul's effective cleric level is equal to its HD.

Madness: (Requires Dweller of Primordial Seas) The chuul gains the ability to force their own notions of how the world works upon those around them. As a move action usable once per day per three HD it possesses the chuul can make any creature within 30 ft of the chuul make a will save DC 10+½HD+cha modifier or become confused for 1d4 rounds. Additionally, the chuul gains the ability to inoculate others against insanity. As an action requiring 1 minute of work, which the chuul must be adjacent to the target to perform, the chuul can make the target immune to fear effects and the confused condition for 24 hours.

Unusual Enhancement: (Requires Experiment Gone Awry) This chuul had many animals go into its creation, an apparently one of them may have been part dragon. The chuul gains a breath weapon usable once every 1d8 rounds dealing 1d6 energy damage in either a 60 ft line or a 30 ft cone(selected when ability is gained). When this ability is gained the chuul selects either fire, cold, acid or fire, their breath weapon deals damage of that type and they gain resistance equal to their HD to damage of that type. The reflex save DC to take half damage from this attack is equal to 10+½HD+Con modifier. Additionally, if the chuul chooses to make this breath attack as a full-round action instead of a standard action they may vaporize a single dose of poison from one of their venom sacs and apply it to any targets who fail their reflex save against the breath attack.

Throw: Starting at sixth level the chuul may use creatures it is grappling as throwing weapons with a range increment of 5 ft + 5 ft per size category they are smaller than the chuul. Using this ability requires an opposed grapple check against the grappled creature on which the chuul gets a +5 bonus followed by a ranged attack roll against whatever the chuul wants to throw its victim at(the chuul may choose to throw its target at the ground or another inanimate object). No grapple check must be made against a creature the chuul does not count as grappled by. Medium creatures deal 2d6 base damage plus any effects that are applied to creatures it strikes with any of its natural attacks or to creatures that strike it with natural attacks( for example, a wight would apply level drain to a creature it collided with while a creature under the effect of fire shield would deal an additional 1d6 fire damage). Both the thrown creature and the struck creature take damage and apply damage from any effects they may possess to the other creature. The thrown creature still takes damage on a miss from striking the ground. At the DM's discretion additional damage may be dealt based on specific combinations of creatures (throwing a fire elemental at a water elemental will not end well for either.) The chuul may do this once per round for each claw attack they possess and using this ability does not use up the chuul's claw attack for the round.

Paralytic Tentacles: At seventh level the chuul's toxic tentacles freeze its victims in place. Each round a creature held in the chuul's tentacles must make a fortitude save vs poison with a save DC of 10+½HD+Con modifier or be paralyzed for HD/2 rounds. This ability replaces entangling tentacles, but the chuul may choose to have their victim be entangled instead of paralyzed on a failed save.

Grim Perfection: At seventh level the changes occurring in the chuul's body reach completion. The chuul selects a single ability from the below list or a single ability from the grim advancement list that they qualify for.
Devour Faith: (Requires Dweller of Primordial Seas) The chuul gains the ability to cast a version of greater dispel magic as a swift action that only affects divine spells. This can be used once per day per four HD. Additionally, when the chuul is holding a divine spellcaster in its tentacles, that caster loses prepared divine spells or spell slots with a total number of spell levels equal to the chuul's HD at the beginning of each round in addition to other affects. The divine caster may choose which spells it loses to the chuul. A character held in the chuul's tentacles for 6 or more rounds must make a will save DC 10+½hd+cha modifier or have its alignment change to true neutral for 24 hours. Whenever the chuul dispels or devours a spell with this ability it is healed 1 hit point per spell level.
At 13 HD the chuul may force a divine caster held in its tentacles to make a will save DC 10+½hd+cha modifier or have the chuul decide which of its spells are devoured instead of deciding itself.
At 19 HD the chuul heals 2 hit points per spell level consumed instead of 1.

Avatar: (Requires Twisted Cultist) The chuul is granted further power by their patron, moving them closer to their dark lord in body and mind. The chuul gains 2 secondary tentacle attacks dealing 1d6 damage for a large creature with a reach of 10 ft. Any creature struck by one of the chuul's natural attacks must make a will save DC 10+½HD+wis modifier or be shaken for 1d4+2 rounds. This stacks with fear effects normally, including itself, but no creature may be affected by this ability more than once per round by any given chuul. Additionally, the chuul may choose to be treated as an outsider native to the far realms instead of an aberration when it is advantageous to do so.
At 13 HD the fear imposed by this ability is even able to affect creatures that would normally be immune to fear, though they get a +4 to their saving throw and cannot be reduced to panicking.
At 19 HD the condition imposed by this ability is frightened rather than shaken, creatures who succeed on their saving throw are still shaken, but the shaken condition imposed on a successful save does not stack with other fear effects.

Secondary Traits: (Requires Experiment Gone Awry) A vast number of creatures went into the chuul's creation, and the features of those creatures now becomes evident. One of the chuul's claws grows to monstrous size, dealing damage as though the chuul was one size category larger and is treated as a two-handed weapon for the purposes of calculating damage bonuses. Additionally, the chuul gains the ability to sense the electric fields surrounding living creatures, giving it blindsense 30' capable of detecting living beings only. Finally, the chuul can change the color of its skin to blend in with the background, giving it a racial bonus to hide checks equal to half its HD.
At 13 HD the chuul's blindsense increases in range to 60' and it gains blindsight 30'. Also, the chuul's large claw now deals damage as though it were an additional size category larger.
At 19 HD any creature struck by the chuul's larger claw must make a fortitude save DC 10+½HD+str modifier or be dazed for one round. Additionally, the chuul's bonus to hide checks increases to its HD and it gains the ability to hide in plain sight.

Comments
Chuulthulhu devours 1d3 investigators divine spells per round.
Anyway, the chuul: a bizarre aquatic creature of unexplained origin. Grim origin takes that last bit and runs with it, constrict improved grab and the tentacles stuff give abilities from the base monster, toxic takes the chuul's poison immunity and expands it into a full ability and everything else is unrelated to the base monster but flavorfully fitting(I hope.)
If you have any ideas for grim origins/advancements/perfections please share them, I'm not necessarily going to stick to having one ability per origin per level and will likely add more later, this is just what I have so far.
Changelog
February 26
changed Lobster-Squid-Fish-Man body to Chuul Body.
reworded stat bonuses in table.
Added no first round constrict clause.
Changed .5s to ½s.
Added the word modifier in lots of places.
Added bonus damage to Lurking Predator.
Reworked One among many's extra attacks.
Madness changed from constant effect to move action effect.
Added Secondary Traits
March 7
Added Damage type to Lurking Predator
Slight reword to One among many
Added use limit to madness
Reduced Secondary traits stun to 1 round
March 8
Secondary traits now requires Experiment gone awry
March 20
Secondary traits now dazes, not stuns.
March 30
Fixed spelling error in grim origin

April 4
Devour faith changed around, it now devours a number of spell levels equal to the chuul's HD(was 1d3 spells), has a uses per day limit on the dispel magic, and only heals 1 HP per spell level.
Made Devour faith scale.
Reduced condition imposed by Avatar to shaken.
Made Avatar scale.
Reduced blindsight from Secondary traits blindsense.
Removed dazing from secondary traits.
reduced initial damage boost to big claw in secondary traits.
Made secondary traits scale.

Frog Dragon
2011-02-20, 06:52 PM
I have now remade both the Mezzoloth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9015485&postcount=1033) and the Nycaloth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9044409&postcount=1058), hopefully fulfilling the standards of this project. Their SLA:s have been reduced, and both have gained a unique set of abilities, Fiendish Fury for the Mezzoloth, and Cursed Wounds for the Nycaloth. The Nycaloth has been made more Con-dependent, and now gains the largest adjustment to that score. The Mezzoloth mostly buffs itself, while the Nycaloth casually applies debuffs to its targets while brutally murdering them with whatever weapons it has at hand, or failing that, with its claws.
I went with delicious dragonborn copypasta for the flight. Anyway, PEACH!

Gorgondantess
2011-02-20, 07:32 PM
Medusa:
Just as a note: the best multiclassing option for every single monster without casting in this thread is an initiating class (pretty much- maybe something like ardent for the smaller ones). As such, I don't think it would be imbalancing to make medusa stances separate from ToB stances and able to use them simultaneously. I suppose Coil sortof takes care of that, though... but then Coil is a little powerful! Dual Stances is a capstone option, and you're granting it amongst many, many other abilities. Though I suppose you're not really granting the equivalent of 8th level stances... Just something to consider, anyways.
Viper's Fangs: Ouch. Talk about crippling your opponents to paralysis with ability score damage stacking.
Also, Darting Serpent... does it really need the full attack option? That makes the Medusa about as good a dip as lion totem barbarian, losing race notwithstanding.
Ouroboros Coils: This would be really, really cool combined with swaying cobra. Sadly, by the time you get Coils, it's quite outdated.:smallfrown:
Cthonic Eye: It's spelled "petrification". No A. Unless it's some funky Canadian spelling, eh. Also, I don't think it would be out of line to simply make the petrification permanent at 16 HD.
Stalking Serpent: what's one step? Like a keen enchantment or by one point?
Also... you do realize that stances can be taken on any time? Even out of combat? So you activate stalking serpent, wait a year, then attack anything not immune to critical hits and kill them instantly.
Snake in the grass: I think a better wording would be, "when the medusa is spotted, she gains concealment for 1 round against that opponent." Or something like that.
Undulating Defense, Cthonic Flash, Cold Blooded, Strangle... looks good!
White Fangs Striking: does it stack with snake nest? For a creature that should have about a, eh, +7 bonus by that time, seems a little excessive. "Piercing weapon": does that include the snakes? If so, might want to reword it to "attack that deals piercing damage". Otherwise looks good.
Force Gaze... okay, the class is already powerful enough, I don't think you need the trickery option.

Otherwise, looking good. Overall needs some tweaking but looks like a fun and potent class.

Hyudra
2011-02-20, 09:26 PM
Medusa:
Just as a note: the best multiclassing option for every single monster without casting in this thread is an initiating class (pretty much- maybe something like ardent for the smaller ones). As such, I don't think it would be imbalancing to make medusa stances separate from ToB stances and able to use them simultaneously.

Hrmm.


I suppose Coil sortof takes care of that, though... but then Coil is a little powerful! Dual Stances is a capstone option, and you're granting it amongst many, many other abilities. Though I suppose you're not really granting the equivalent of 8th level stances... Just something to consider, anyways.

I will consider it.


Viper's Fangs: Ouch. Talk about crippling your opponents to paralysis with ability score damage stacking.

Yeah. I realize, now that I've been informed that poison stacks (beyond just doing initial damage several times over) that this is a bit much.


Also, Darting Serpent... does it really need the full attack option? That makes the Medusa about as good a dip as lion totem barbarian, losing race notwithstanding.

I dunno about that. I mean, yeah, you're getting potential full attacks on a charge, but that's with a fairly stringent prerequisite - At least 1 turn spent in the stance prior to the charge, without getting hit.


Cthonic Eye: It's spelled "petrification". No A. Unless it's some funky Canadian spelling, eh. Also, I don't think it would be out of line to simply make the petrification permanent at 16 HD.

Any search for 'petrification', including dictionary and wiki examples, redirect to a page/definition titled Petrifaction. In lists of the synonymous meanings of the terms, petrifaction is first.

Yes, I can give it a permanent petrify.


[Stalking Serpent: what's one step? Like a keen enchantment or by one point?

Thought it was evident. Wanted to avoid getting into those horrible, overcomplex, overwrought discussions that come up whenever one talks about critical multipliers and critical threat ranges.


Also... you do realize that stances can be taken on any time? Even out of combat? So you activate stalking serpent, wait a year, then attack anything not immune to critical hits and kill them instantly.

Ah, but I did stress, under Slither/Stride, that "Adopting a Serpentine Stance (Slither/Stride stances count as Serpentine Stances for the purposes of these rules of use) requires a swift action, performed after initiative rolls have been made. The stance has no duration, beyond the fact that it ends when combat does. Only one stance may be maintained at a time."


Snake in the grass: I think a better wording would be, "when the medusa is spotted, she gains concealment for 1 round against that opponent." Or something like that.

Ok.


White Fangs Striking: does it stack with snake nest? For a creature that should have about a, eh, +7 bonus by that time, seems a little excessive. "Piercing weapon": does that include the snakes? If so, might want to reword it to "attack that deals piercing damage". Otherwise looks good.

I'll tone it down and reword it.


Force Gaze... okay, the class is already powerful enough, I don't think you need the trickery option.

So noted.

Will start on the promised critiques for classes now (had to go out to dinner for work, sorry it's delayed).

Lemme see, doing...
Chuul for Saidoro's critique of Monstrous Spider. Edit: Done!
Senor Cactus for Gorgon's critique of Medusa/others - With Gorgondantess' permission, putting this off til later.
Volt's creature (mushroom?) for Volt's critique of Magmin.

Will either do a fresh post or edit this post if nobody's responded by the time I'm done, so stay tuned either way.

Gorgondantess
2011-02-20, 10:37 PM
I dunno about that. I mean, yeah, you're getting potential full attacks on a charge, but that's with a fairly stringent prerequisite - At least 1 turn spent in the stance prior to the charge, without getting hit.
Ah. Didn't see the "requires initiative to be rolled" thing.



Any search for 'petrification', including dictionary and wiki examples, redirect to a page/definition titled Petrifaction. In lists of the synonymous meanings of the terms, petrifaction is first.
...Huh. That's... odd.


Thought it was evident. Wanted to avoid getting into those horrible, overcomplex, overwrought discussions that come up whenever one talks about critical multipliers and critical threat ranges.
Two possibilities: doubled or increased by one. Each one has precedent in the rules; however, doubling is far more common, so one "step" could be construed as doubling.


Ah, but I did stress, under Slither/Stride, that "Adopting a Serpentine Stance (Slither/Stride stances count as Serpentine Stances for the purposes of these rules of use) requires a swift action, performed after initiative rolls have been made. The stance has no duration, beyond the fact that it ends when combat does. Only one stance may be maintained at a time."
Ah! Didn't see that. That makes rising anaconda stance far, far less useful. And snake in the grass- hide checks are generally best made before initiative starts, not afterwards.
Beyond that, this would be somewhat cumbersome for multiclassing with ToB, especially when coils is taken into account, as ToB stances don't require initiative to be rolled. Beyond that, people who already know what stances are (like me) are liable to miss that little footnote. Usually when I take something that people generally know the effects of and can find the effects elsewhere and then make minor tweaks so that at first glance it would still be exactly the same as what they already know, causing them to thus glaze over it and miss those few words that make all the difference, I make it very, very clear. See: construct type on my golems.

Anyways, I'm actually going to tweak Senor Saguaro right now. Mainly just to make wording less cumbersome.

Hyudra
2011-02-20, 11:22 PM
Chuul

"Lobster-Squid-Fish-Man Body:" -> rename to Chuul body? Standardization!
"Additionally the chuul may choose to ignore the frail power of the gods, gaining spell resistance 10+HD against divine spells only." -> "frail power of the gods" seems out of place. Also, a bit early to be gaining spell resistance.
The attribute bonuses to wisdom need to be better clarified on the table, since the way it's shown, it implies it's the player's choice.
Again, under experiment gone awry, feels a bit early to be getting SR (other creatures get it at 2nd level at the earliest.)
The constrict bonus... That's a pretty sizable bonus. In fact, what it looks like you're doing is making That Damn Crab. That is, you've got an absolute grab/constrict machine. For example:

Charlie the Chuul with Experiment Gone Awry origin attacks Nancy the Warlock, both level 2. Charlie's got a +6 attack bonus, and Nancy's got AC 16. Charlie makes a full attack against Nancy, Delivering two attacks, Charlie needs a 10+ to hit. Two 50% chances to hit.

Assuming Charlie does land a hit (odds are in his favor), he deals 1d8+5 damage, makes a grapple check (+5 from Str bonus, so odds again liable to be in his favor against a typical humanoid) and deals 2d6+5 damage if successful. Charlie's got 7 average claw damage (two claws that can hit) and 12 average constrict damage. Nancy's liable to have 15hp.
It's a bit too much.
@Tentacles: Don't use .5Str It's hard to read and can be very much misinterpreted. Use 1/2 or ½. (The latter can be made by turning on numlock, holding alt, typing 1, 7, 1 on numpad, then releasing alt).
Third level, armor spikes. Adding gravy to the grapple monstrosity. May be a bit much, but this issue should go away when you've got the rest of the grapple engine sorted out.
@ lurking predator: I don't like a dependence on water. It's not necessarily that common (or consistently common) as terrain features go, and it tends to make for a creature that is fantastic in some environments and terrible in others. It's like favored enemy/favored terrain. You're only really special when your favored enemy/terrain isn't on the field.
@ otherworldly preacher: 'this does not scale after it is gained' - don't do this. It forces players to procrastinate on gaining levels in the monster class until the latest possible time.
@ one among many: Ok, so I've got the murderous claw/improved grapple/constrict machine in place. Now, in the battle against the BBEG, I can gain +3 claw attacks. This will make DMs throw heavy books at you.
@ Entangling Tentacles: Entangled isn't the right condition for this, given the flavor text. Entangled tends to refer to an external impediment to movement. If you left goopy slime on them, that'd work, but a numbing poison, not so much.
@ Human Shield: What type of action is this? Might want to make it an immediate action.
@ Grasping tentacles: I get that you're making a grapple monster here, but I think it's a bit too much. Consider that you can, as written, full attack, deal a bonus 5 claw attacks and a tentacles attack. Each attack has damage combined with a chance to grab & constrict.
@ Madness: Inoculation against insanity needs to be better defined, as it's pretty broad. This ability is one of those that'll bog down combat if you're not careful (and I fear you've not been careful). You're asking for a lot of will saves (assuming you go from 5th level to 20th, that's 185ish encounters, with most involving an enemy being in close proximity to the Chuul for 1-2 rounds. Let's say there's, on average, 1 enemy in range of the Chuul for 1.5 rounds per combat. That's 278ish will saves, 278 or so rolls on confusion table. Beyond that, you've got what amounts to a save or lose that doesn't require an action of the Chuul's part, so he's taking enemies out of combat without even trying. This is a problem.
@ Throw: Too many words! You get into all these side examples (touch attacks, fire elemental vs. water elemental) that don't necessarily even apply. (I throw a ghoul at someone, they get paralyzed every time?)
"No grapple check must be made if the chuul is grappling a creature that it does not count as grappled by." is awkwardly worded. Plus an overuse of the word 'grappled'.
Arguably too much damage considering how easy it is to set up. I mean, consider:

6th level Chuul against 6th level Warlock. Chuul has 22 Str and large size. Hits with a claw for 2d6+6 damage, gets an improved grapple check (+6 from Str, +4 from size, total of +10), liable to win. Warlock grappled, takes 2d6+6 damage from constrict.

Next turn, Chuul throws victim. Grapple check (+15 bonus), constrict damage (2d6+6), throw Warlock at another enemy, dealing 2d6+6 damage to each.

2 standard actions, and aside from just needing that one successful claw hit (not a horrible chance at happening), you've got a system that deals about 65 damage total, on average (52 to warlock, 13 to alternate victim), with a maximum of 90 total damage. Again, worth stressing, a sixth level foe has somewhere in the neighborhood of 45-50 hp.
@ Paralytic Tentacles: Why the flat 6 round duration? Also, this is just icing on the OmgWtfGrapple cake.
@ Devour Faith: What's this obsession people have with abilities that screw over divine casters? I mean, not complaining, per se, but I think there's three or four monsters on the unfinished list that do this sort of thing.

The loss of prepared spells is a bit much, especially since it's costing the cleric his or her best spells.

Violet Fungus

Violet body should be violet fungus body.
First level sucks, I'm afraid. Doesn't give you anything interesting. Leaves you with d8 hp, two tentacle attacks, no speech.
Organic Breakdown is thematic, but the benefit isn't going to come up that often. Once a level? Once every other level?
Plant communication: see organic breakdown.
The poison damage doesn't really scale that fantastically.
Dire Tentacles isn't that thrilling as capstones go.
Overall, kind of underwhelming. Doesn't sell a particular playstyle, feels distinctly underpowered for a 1st through 3rd level PC, and doesn't offer that much that's going to make you glad, at 15th level, that you picked Violet Fungus as a race.

Frog Dragon
2011-02-21, 12:49 PM
Got off my ass and modified the black dragon. Responses to criticism in blue.


Black Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10246297&postcount=149)
God, I really hate 20 level creatures.
Level 1 feels a little too packed full of stuff. Consider stretching out some of those benefits over levels. I can't think of anything to drop to later levels. Being amphibious is pretty central to black dragon-ness, so I wouldn't want to delay that.
SLAs aren't terribly interesting. You've already got arcane spells. Why not replace these SLAs with something more thematic and fitting? Dropped a couple of SLA:s, gave the Marsh Drake ability.
Set a cap on flight speed. Done. Set it to 200ft/round, since that is the highest flight speed the MM black dragon can get. It also nicely caps at level 20.
Lots of levels, you only get one spell, which can only be used once a day or so. This makes it a tad placid, and doesn't really drive home the draconic flavor.
I can't tell what the Black Dragon is trying to be. I mean, this is kind of a problem I have with all dragons, but you've got a bonus to hide checks (roguish), spells (caster-ish), full BAB and tons of natural attacks (Fighter-ish), and it feels kind of schizophrenic as a result. I tried to accentuate the "ambush" flavor here, with Marsh Drake. It is kind of schizophrenic, yes, but I don't really know what to do about it.
Toxic breath needs clarification. It doesn't mention it's poison until far too late, which makes it confusing on first read. It also eclipses and outclasses weakening breath. Clarified wording. Eclipsing Weakening Breath is kind of intentional, but the lower level ability does have the perk that it still works against many creatures that are immune to poison, being an ability penalty.
Not sure I get or like the whole 'dragon can turn nauseated to sickened' bit. I myself thought it was a good way to drive home the flavor I was gunning for, while being a decently useful secondary ability.
Impure Breath is kind of underwhelming as a capstone. I gave it a fairly substantial boost, making the condition last longer.

Zemro
2011-02-22, 02:35 AM
Marrash:
Interesting monster.

Thanks, I've made almost all the changes, including the following to Double Bowfire:
Disallowed the ability to stack with the splitting enchantment
Specified Manyshot interaction (only adds a single arrow)
Reduced benefit of strength to damage to half.
Damage from the other arrow isn't multiplied on a critical hit.
Effects that trigger on a critical hit only trigger once
But had a brief comment on one comment:

Double Bowfire: Ever seen that charop thing where the ranger fires something like 20 shots every round? Double it. With a single addition from manyshot, you're looking at 4 arrows as a standard action.:smalleek:
I'm not actually so sure about that, I went and did some research and here are my conclusions:
Main Factors in getting ridiculous amounts of arrows per round:
Shapechange Shenanigans
Barring UMD Shenanigans to receive, this isn't really a problem do to difficulty in obtaining. Technically you'd loose all the Marrash abilities if you polymorphed into something else, so that'd just really suck.
Splitting Weapon Enchantment[/list]
Essentially a much easier to use version of double bowfire, since it's just an enchantment rather then something requiring one to be a specific race, be flying, and give up two natural weapons.
However, I've just changed the ability so they don't stack, so it's not helping anymore.
Island In Time
Gives an extra turn, once per encounter. However you can't take the Eternal Blade as a Marrash, and it wouldn't kick in until 20 anyway, where I'd be less worried about such shenanigans.
Time Stands Still
As a 9th level maneuver, it'd necessitate 14 levels in Warblade just to receive a bonus round. At most this would be being used every other round, and won't kick in until 19th.
Belt of Battle
Burns out the belt for that day, an extra full attack once per day isn't really something to worry about.

Conclusion:

By digging up builds for usable material, the best I could manage is as follows:

Marrash 5: 1 BAB, +1 Rapid Shot, +1 Haste.
Rapid Shot gives us a -2 penalty, but if we're getting a buff from the party Wizard that's a +1 attack bonus from haste. At most we're talking three attacks for six arrows, but two and four seems most typical.

Marrash 5/Barbarian 1: 2 BAB, +1 Rapid Shot, +1 Whirling Frenzy, +1 Haste.
Whirling Frenzy drops another -2 penalty, for a total of -4 to negate. We're looking at 4-5 attacks for 8-10 arrows. Damage-wise we're behind the two-hander, since it's much easier for him to gain damage (his attack stat is his damage stat, and power attack).

And that's kinda it, you get to add another two arrows as your BAB increases, and there's the once a day boost from a Belt of Battle. Largely it seems that by the class being it's race, it looses out a bit of craziness from race and polymorph stuffs. So, overall, we're looking at 14 arrows at 20th, barring game breaking or end game only shenanigans.

With the nerfs I've just added, it should work fine for now, keeping in mind it only fires two arrows with an attack roll. That's specific wording, it's not an extra arrow, it's just straight up two arrows, so it may help limit the craziness.

Anyway, I've made my case, if it's sufficiently refuted I suppose I'll head back to the chopping block, otherwise I think I've addressed all the problems raised so far.

Hopefully I'll get back into offering some comments on the new monsters sometime soon.

EDIT: Fixed some glaring spelling and formatting errors, apparently I'm a bit too tired to post properly...

Gorgondantess
2011-02-22, 02:47 AM
Anyway, I've made my case, if it's sufficiently refuted I suppose I'll head back to the chopping block, otherwise I think I've addressed all the problems raised so far.

And then you tack on the spell girallon arms- or take a few levels in incarnum for that- and you double the bows, double the output, 16-20 arrows per round at level, eh, 10 or so.

Zemro
2011-02-22, 03:00 AM
And then you tack on the spell girallon arms- or take a few levels in incarnum for that- and you double the bows, double the output, 16-20 arrows per round at level, eh, 10 or so.

Neither of those will help, as specified in the ability the Marrash must be holding the bow with his talons (feet) for the ability to work. Both girallon arms and the soulmelds add arms and claw attacks, insufficient for the function of this ability.

I can't actually think of any ability that adds extra talons to a character.

EDIT: Double bonus, the wording it specifies talons. So something would have to add feet with talon attacks.

Gorgondantess
2011-02-22, 03:04 AM
Neither of those will help, as specified in the ability the Marrash must be holding the bow with his talons (feet) for the ability to work. Both girallon arms and the soulmelds add arms and claw attacks, insufficient for the function of this ability.

Blegh, sorry. Alright then, 'scool.

DiBastet
2011-02-22, 07:36 PM
Ragewalker's updated here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10374313&postcount=495).

Mystic Muse
2011-02-22, 09:49 PM
Maybe its just me, but the Treant looks a little weak. It has half BAB, No class skills, D8 hit dice, and no good saves.

Hyudra
2011-02-22, 10:27 PM
Virtually everything that was submitted under Oslecamo's rule was underpowered or overpowered, or at the very least, problematic in some fashion. We're well aware that this problem exists, and are taking slow and steady steps to remedy it.

Mystic Muse
2011-02-22, 10:29 PM
Virtually everything that was submitted under Oslecamo's rule was underpowered or overpowered, or at the very least, problematic in some fashion. We're well aware that this problem exists, and are taking slow and steady steps to remedy it.

Maybe it would be more complex and take longer than I suspect, but Shouldn't we remove problematic material from the list of finished monsters?

Hyudra
2011-02-22, 11:01 PM
Maybe it would be more complex and take longer than I suspect, but Shouldn't we remove problematic material from the list of finished monsters?

I'm of two minds there:

Yes, we should.
But there's a few inherent issues with that.
For one thing, there are people out there playing with those monsters. While I think the creation process and the slow but steady steps for replacing one monster with an updated version should give people time to either bookmark a link to or save the old material, abruptly removing a third of the monsters on the list would inconvenience a lot of people.
Another issue is that, well, where do we draw the line? Pretty much everything before Gorgondantess took over was flawed in some fashion. A few things after he took over are flawed too, because of the various shifts in how things were done (such as the introduction of the nomination/endorsement system), and a fair bit of crap getting past the radar as a consequence. It could be said that everything before mid-2010 is in need of a revision of some sort, be it minor or major.
And ultimately, we'd be taking a lot of stuff off the 'done' list and shortening what we've got to a rather truncated list. This would be a kick in the pants to quite a few people who put in a fair effort, and at the rate we're clearing monsters (~3 a week) it would be a long time before we bounced back.So I'm personally of the opinion (and I welcome other people to comment on the subject or disagree with me) that the best method would be to keep it as is, and just allow for revised monster classes to be completed and posted, if their forerunners are deemed subpar.

DiBastet
2011-02-23, 02:06 PM
I agree with just revising things. It would be better to focus on the flawed monsters than to just keep making new ones. I could very well, happily, update the fey.

FishAreWet
2011-02-23, 02:59 PM
I think putting a simple asterisk by classes that could use a review would be a simple fix.

Hyudra
2011-02-23, 03:19 PM
I think putting a simple asterisk by classes that could use a review would be a simple fix.

Or having a separate list of classes in need of revision.

But such still requires us to figure out which classes are in need of such, take the time to properly identify/link to them, and make the list (or put down the asterisks). For now, I think, we'll just leave it open to revision.

If you think a class is subpar and you want to revise it, run it by the council, by way of post or PM.

But it's, of course, preferred that you finish what you're doing (or get it to the almost-finished point where a council member - usually yours truly - deems it nearly done) before you start something new, be it a new monster or a revision.

I've got another batch critique coming up, but it's fairly comprehensive and is taking a bit.

Frog Dragon
2011-02-23, 03:36 PM
Could the Mezzoloth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9015485&postcount=1033) and the Nycaloth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9044409&postcount=1058) be moved into Unfinished monsters for the time being, until they receive a looking through for the new abilities? They're very different beasties from what they were when I first made them, so they're going to need another round of critique.

Hyudra
2011-02-23, 04:13 PM
Could the Mezzoloth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9015485&postcount=1033) and the Nycaloth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9044409&postcount=1058) be moved into Unfinished monsters for the time being, until they receive a looking through for the new abilities? They're very different beasties from what they were when I first made them, so they're going to need another round of critique.

Ah, the timing is awkward. We just got an influx of new monsters, and you've still got the Black Dragon, a 20 level creature, to finish. As Gorgon said, we're asking people to please ask and get the a-ok before they add more to the overall workload (be it a new monster or a revision). New contributors are perfectly fine, but people with existing projects adding new stuff to the pile is kind of problematic, and leads to us being buried.

Can I ask that you please finish Black Dragon, and then remind us of those two when we've got that nearly done?

I'm being a little picky about that (in this post & the one above) because I'm only midway through a mass critique of some 17 monsters. I'm kinda bothered by the prospect of adding more, unnecessarily.

Hyudra
2011-02-23, 11:43 PM
Going for a scoring system to encourage changes where a class is lacking, if something is otherwise faulty. Inspired by the scoring system used by the ICO challenge here at GitP. Let me know what you think.

The criteria for scoring is:

Originality: How unique is the design? Does it stand out as something that would be different to play? Is it interesting or boring? Grades are a sliding scale, with low grades if I can do the same thing with class levels or if another monster does the same thing. Mid-to-High grade if it has a feature or combination of features you wouldn't find elsewhere. Highest grades if it has a feature or combination of features you wouldn't find elsewhere, available across most levels in the class. Monsters that offer a lot of options are liable to get higher grades here (but if those options suck, you may get hit in Elegance, Power or Flavor, below).

Playability: Does the monster have a defined role? Does it bring something to the group? How easy is it for some random Joe who picks up your monster to make that monster fit his idea of what he wants his monster character to be? Where Elegance, below, is concerned with the quality monster entry itself, Playability refers to how well the monster is expected to perform when it's at the table.
Abilities that are unintuitive, complicated, slow the game down, hurt the group dynamic (such as by accidentally offing party members) or force the game to stop while one looks for a rule or detail in a book are going to hurt a monster's score under playability. Higher scores go to monsters who have abilities you can remember the rules for from memory, who have just one or two abilities that require a quick glance at the appropriate text or monsters who actively make gameplay more fast paced and exciting.

Power: How balanced is the monster? Is it balanced overall? Is it more or less balanced at every level? Does it scale well enough to be a contender at high levels?
Grades are a sliding scale, with deductions for overpowered/underpowered features or weak/overstrong levels. Further deductions for powers made available sooner than usual (ie. flight at 1st level), or too late to be useful (such as standard SR at 18th level).
I'm aiming for Tier 2-3ish power levels, and hitting the sweet spot will get a high score from me (I'll assume a 5 to start and deduct if we're outside that range, basically). Ask if you don't know what that tier thing means.

Elegance: Does the monster feel polished? Is the entry appealing and easy to read through? Do the individual features flow and progress neatly? In short, does it feel like a nicely put together class?
Grading with a 3 to start, bonuses for nice picture, good ability text, adherence to thread standards, and good flow throughout the work. Higher/highest marks if I feel like it could appear in a WotC book. Penalties for bad spelling, poor grammar, awkward presentation, ugly/missing picture when other pictures are clearly available, failing to adhere to thread standards.

Flavor: Where Originality, above, is about the class, Flavor is focused on the monster and the atmosphere. Does the monster give the impression of the monster in the books, lore, novels and/or game? Do abilities fit the monster? Do the ability descriptions?
Grading with a 3 to start. Bonuses for abilities that really sell the monster. Penalties for stuff that feels out of place or particularly dry.

All scores are on a 1-5 scale. I stress that I am not demanding 5's across the board. However, if you're consistently getting hit in some areas, consider shoring up your weaknesses and/or asking for help in that particular department. Hopefully this helps out anyone who has had their monster on the list for a while and is having trouble figuring out why it just won't get the A-ok. More than that, I'm hoping people stop just waiting for a long list of stuff to fix and just fixing what is listed, and put some more effort into addressing the larger issues.

Pandorym (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9943992&postcount=295)
'All class skills are skills for Pandorym' -> I don't like this. For one thing, it's the factotum's shtick. Beyond that, a lot of skills don't make sense for the Pandorym... like Iajitsu Focus. Use rope. Ride. It comes across as lazy.
Run on sentence: "You lose all previous racial modifiers and gain the Outsider Type with the Psionic, and Evil subtypes, native to the Material Plane after spending so long on it, and the nightmare realm of your home, perpendicular to the Prime Material"
Should be 3 sentences.
No need for comma after Psionic.
'after spending so long on it' isn't a complete thought, or a proper fragment.
You're native to two places?
The whole fragment at the end 'and the nightmare realm of your home, perpendicular to the prime material' is awkwardly worded and doesn't make a ton of sense.
Under Pandorym Body: whitch. Spelling error #1.
I don't like the use of brackets throughout. Other accepted monsters haven't used stuff like "[1d6+Cha mod]" or "(DC = 10 + Cha Mod + HD/2)". Also, that whole HD/2 is ugly. Further, the 10, then cha mod, then ½ HD is out of order. These points all run contrary to the presentation used by other monsters.
The limited equipment slots hurt the Pandorym. What does it get to make up for this?
Don't start sentences with and. (See last sentence of Pandorym Body)
"At 3rd level, you gain the ability to use your vast intellect to show how pathetic a creature is in the vast scale of things." - flavor text is a bit weak.
"To learn or manifest a power, a psion must have an Intelligence score of at least 10 + the power’s level. " -> you mean a pandorym?
Faint Sign of Binding: You state 'makes teleportation hard', but conjuration isn't necessarily all teleportation. Some is creation. This is confusing.
Corporealize: Get rid of the brackets on "[Con Mod]".
Corporealize: Too many 'and's in middle sentence.
Corporealize: The references to HD are a bit confusing. Does this refer to your number of HD, or the size of your HD? Some would read it as d8 damage.
"At 6th level, your mental faculties allow you to think so hard you can focus your terrible fighting skills into something useful." - terrible flavor text. I'm sorry, but it's really weak and doesn't help sell the Pandorym as a creature.
"you learn to block out annoying things like Magic." - again, a little weak. This flavor text doesn't help me feel that I'm playing the Pandorym.
Spelling error #2: nieve. (you mean Naive). Stopping the critique here, at an 8th level ability. Spell check.
{table=head]Category|Score
Originality| 3.5 (stepping on factotum toes with the skills, bumping shoulders with the brain in a jar, but you're doing ok with the psychic crystal monstrosity bit)
Playability| - (can't say, didn't review the whole class)
Power| - (can't say, didn't review the whole class, hard to review a psion)
Elegance| 1.5 (brackets, lazy class skills, awkward wording, grammar, spelling, feels disjointed)
Flavor| 2 (ability text doesn't sell the monster's flavor)
Overall| Can't rate (ended critique to allow time for spellcheck), average 2.3[/table]


Jovoc (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9955384&postcount=425)
I know it makes sense, and it looks ok, but the whole breaking the class down into categories based on level (the bolded 1st level, 2nd level bit) runs against convention.
Body of Vengeance:
You change from 'you' to 'it's' between sentence one and sentence two.
And you reverse that change halfway through sentence two.
The whole 'at 9HD you become medium' is weird in both formatting and being unconventional. Why not make it part of a later ability (abyssal skin?)
General way of doing things in this thread is to avoid giving full BAB and strength bonuses in the same class.
2nd level hurts for feeling unique to the Jovoc. It's bland.
It'd help if you named creature source somewhere where it's clear.
Summon demon:
"Note CL= HD" - try to stick to complete sentences and avoid acronyms unless they make the text clearer.
Punishment strike:
Is too much, in terms of numbers. +10 to attack rolls and +7ish damage at 10th level?
the 'for one round' thing is really unclear.
Don't use 'HD/2' as it's confusing.
and too many uses for something so generally potent. At 10th level I'm looking at 10-12 uses a day. It's just a bit much.
Bloodclaws:
Flavor text is a bit weak. "Your claws are blood red".
You sacrifice 10hp and gain the ability to claw people from 100' away? That's... a lot of range. Could use flavor to sell it.
14HD benefit needs details. RAW, I could do it to any nauseated creature anywhere, without line of sight.
Retributive Aura:
Still feels kinda awkward.
You use FC as an acronym and it makes the ability read fairly awkwardly.
In reference to Playability score, below, I just don't know what the creature's role would be in a group. You're a damage dealer, but you don't deal as much damage as a dedicated damage dealer. You can take hits with DR and fast healing, but you're not really a dedicated tank. You don't really have the skill point base to take on a particular role as a tracker or the like.
{table=head]Category|Score
Originality| 4 (Good overall, but 2nd level is kinda lacking)
Playability| 2.5 (I worry Retributive Aura would bog down play, lack of role?)
Power| 3.5 (Full BAB coupled with Str bonuses, punishment strike, retributive in some situations)
Elegance| 2.5 (the level headings, confusing, use of "HD/2", use of acronyms, awkward retributive aura)
Flavor| 3.5 (I like the double claw ability, but 2nd level doesn't convey any Jovoc feel and weak flavor text in Bloodclaws hurts it)
Overall| 16, average 3.2.[/table]

Gargoyle (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9959382&postcount=443)
Thought I pointed Gorgondantess to this. I haven't. To help out, I'll try to score it.
The image, I must admit, I don't love. Would prefer to stick to digital/traditional art rather than include photography, miniatures and real life models. Some I saw, with a search, included:
http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs10/i/2006/135/b/6/Gargoyle_by_nJoo.jpg
http://sensevessel.deviantart.com/art/Gargoyle-192266362?q=boost%3Apopular%20Gargoyle&qo=68
http://leopardsnow.deviantart.com/art/gargoyle-117558521?q=boost%3Apopular%20Gargoyle&qo=134
http://artpox.deviantart.com/art/Gargoyle-Sentinel-180479558?q=boost%3Apopular%20Gargoyle&qo=160
http://www.kragstad.com/images/wallpapers/WakestoneGargoyle.jpg (some cropping needed)
http://www.accademiaditolaria.com/wp-content/uploads/esper.jpg (a little out there).
Take your pick, depending on the flavor you're going for.
I think there's a bit of an issue in that the creature lacks full BAB, takes a rogue approach, but doesn't get all the goodies a rogue gets. I mean, you get 'chiseled' abilities at every level, and have better saves/HD, but you don't really get that oomph that sneak attack offers a rogue to make up for the non-full-BAB, the ability to get into position for those sneak attacks, the skills/skill points or the general utility abilities like ability to find traps and whatnot.
Claws - they deal 1d4 damage... plus 1.5x Str? 1x Str? ½ Str?
Oh, you say it later. No, just include the Str mod as part of the claw description.
"They have a racial bonus to Hide checks in stone terrain equal to their HD (minimum 4)." - I'd recommend something like, "Gargoyles have a racial bonus to hide checks in stone terrain equal to ½ their HD or their Dex mod, whichever is higher)" - the full HD to checks is too much.
Chiseled Armaments:
Good work overall, but filthy talons are kinda lame. Won't help most adventurers. Needs some gravy to sell it (something that makes the disease otherwise worthwhile, or that uses the disease to the gargoyle's advantage.
Chiseled Fortifications:
Tough Skin... hrm. Assuming I'm a 10th level gargoyle with a +8 Con mod, that's +17 AC. This is a lot, and leaves me concerned about just how much it scales.
You failed to close a bracket under Zealous Carvings, after talking about subtypes.
Runecarved Body is a bit weak. Consider something like, "The Gargoyle's natural weapons may be considered magic weapons that deal damage appropriate to the chosen element whenever it would benefit the Gargoyle."
The example for Runecarved Body feels a bit out of place.
The bit about miss chance could stand to be touched up. As read, it implies the Gargoyle's attacks are the ones that would miss.
Freeze:
Don't love it as a free action. Doesn't state how long it lasts, which leads one to think, on being targeted with an attack that threatens a crit, a gargoyle would just trigger this ability to gain fortification. Make it a swift, grant better bonuses?
Feels very minor, in the grand scheme of things, when it's a core ability of the Gargoyle.
Improved Chiseled Armaments:
Stone Heavyweight is a little meh. Not docking any points anywhere, but powerful build is really overused.
Water Bullets: Not docking points here, but part of me wishes the weapon did less damage and had the 'push enemies to the limits of the weapon's range' earlier, and got the damage bumped up at a later point. It's a great idea that fits the 'geyser' bit. I could stand to see Water Bullets renamed to something else.
The dex damage on petrifaction isn't a lot, and I envision it as being really subpar, especially since you're increasing enemy AC and making it harder to apply further dex damage. Add a workaround of some sort?
I like what you did with the flight/mobility abilities, but I'd add some kind of technique for attacking from above that encourages use of glide in combat. Perhaps moving the 9HD bonus damage down.
Statuesque Perfection: "They choose any two abilities from the Chiseled Armaments, Stone Skin Fortifications or Carved Mobility lists (two total, not per list)." -> This could be reworded to do away with the bracket.
Move the saved Carved Mobility info to the comments box?
{table=head]Category|Score
Originality| 4.5 (Lots of options, most of which work.)
Playability| 3 (It isn't bad in this department, but it isn't particularly great either. Perhaps bump its skills/skill points up a step?)
Power| 3.5 (Inferior to rogue? A bit terrain dependent for hide checks, disease isn't that hot as an option, Tough Skin, Freeze)
Elegance| 4 (Awkward placement of the bit where you detail Str damage to claw, iffy picture, bracket under Statuesque perfection, but the overall monster fits together very smoothly)
Flavor| 4 (Every option you list is damn flavorful and I can very much picture it fitting a Gargoyle, but Freeze is a signature ability that feels overlooked.)
Overall| 19, average 3.8
[/table]

Quasi-God (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10077255&postcount=719)
Ok, so this creature is one of the ones that prompted me to do the whole scoring thing, so I could stop talking in generalities and try to hammer out exactly why I, Gorgon and you, K.B., are having trouble getting this one to a finished state.
My initial complaint about this class is that it doesn't feel like a monster class. It feels like a prestige class for someone with class levels. The pre-reqs kind of convey this, too.
Why Charisma 11 in the pre-reqs? It seems like an arbitrary number.
The *'s in the table and the ensuing description are kind of messy. Further, they make it hard on a player who is gaining a level and has to check and double check their previous choices and/or outside material to figure out their most basic advancements.
"1 point = 1st level advances it
+2 points (3 total) = 3rd level also advances it
+3 points (6 total) = 5th level also advances it"
-- This is messy, looks awkward and has 3 incomplete sentences.
Class Features - you have this line italicized a little ways into the text. It feels out of place and looks
"(which change after 24 hours to match the !uasi-God if it permanently changes alignment)":
Misspelled 'Quasi-God'.
Rather than use brackets, you could make that a separate sentence.
Natural armor bonus equal to Cha mod? This is a little weird, and doesn't stack with other natural armor bonuses. Bears clarification/fixing.
"The Quasi-God gains +1 to its Charisma score at 2nd & 4th level. At levels 1, 3 & 5 they may advance 1 stat of their choice (which may be different for each boost)." - should change to 'advance one stat' for readability.
Don't write abilities as '1/5 rounds'. It's confusing, awkward and kinda lazy.
Let the light/darkness of the Quasi-God be adjusted. That is, 'may shed any amount of light/darkness up to a maximum of a 60' radius.
Divine Spark:
I worry a bit about a free darkness effect that can be used to impede foes. I mean, darkness sucks as an effect, but getting it for free can potentially screw up the enemy.
'that deals 1d6/3HD damage' - reword to 'that deals 1d6 untyped damage for every 3HD of the Quasi-God.'
'1/day for every 2HD the Quasi-God may' reads awkwardly. Reword to 'Once a day for every 2HD the Quasi-God has, it may...
'1/day for every 2HD the Quasi-God may heal or repair (for constructs) a creature (including yourself) by 1d6/3HD.' - You shift from 'the Quasi god may...' to '(including yourself)'. Should be either 'you may ... including yourself' or 'the Quasi-God may ... including itself/himself/herself.' Try to be consistent.
And again, 'by 1d6/3HD' should be 'by 1d6 for every 3HD the Quasi-God has.'
'As a standard action usable 1/day for every' -> should be 'usable once a day for every...'
'for every 2HD the Quasi-God may' - insert 'has' after Quasi-God.
You probably get the sense of what I'm looking for by now. I'll stop detailing changes I've already covered, but try to make changes throughout, where possible.
'They may reduce the target's AC, any one Save, Damage reduction or Spell Resistance by 1 point for every 2HD it has' -> you change focus from 'they' to 'it', leading one to believe we're basing this off the HD of the victim, not the quasi-god.
Fledgling Portfolio:
"The creature may only be newly empowered, but they are becoming a God nonetheless" -> Here's one thing that bugs me. It seems like the entry can't decide whether the Quasi-God has already achieved divinity (see pre-reqs, "thus earning your Divinity", "Divinity manifests differently in each of the rare few who achieve it", "unless the source is another God") or whether it's on its way to such ("they are becoming a God nonetheless"). It feels a bit divided on the subject - I think there were other areas that give varying impressions one way or the other, but this hurts the flavor of the class and makes it feel a bit incoherent.
"They may only cast spells that are of a level that a Cleric who's level matched your HD" -> See underlines.
And who's isn't the right word. The entire sentence, come to think of it, is awkwardly written. Try: 'They may only access domain spells of a spell level equal to ½ their HD.'
"Any spells with an XP cost still requires the Quasi-God to pay this cost." - get rid of the 's' after spells.
Shield of Divinity:
"As a new Deity, many mortal magics find great difficulty affecting the creature." - I'd replace the word 'magics' with 'forces', to avoid confusion or debate as far as monster abilities, normal weapons (alchemist's fire) or divine spells being ignored by a player reading the flavor text literally.
"At 3rd level they gain DR equal to 1/2 your HD"
Manifestation of Divinity:
Divine Companion:
The growing/shrinking of companions feels really weird.
"f the Companion is killed the Quasi-God may expend the 4 highest level effects from their Fledgling Portfolio ability without their usual effects to resurrect it after 24 hours have passed." - this makes absolutely no sense to me, I'm afraid.
Aura of Divinity:
Weakness aura is pretty powerful, given the 'no save, at least 1 negative level'.
And resolve is pretty weak in comparison.
Drain is pretty potent as an aura. No-save damage to pretty much every enemy on the battlefield? So at 15th level, I can give every enemy 3 negative levels (1 on a save), costing each foe 15 hp, and then have them take 15 damage a round just for being there?
The auras seem flat out better than other Manifestations of Divinity
Far Sight:
Seems pretty dramatically underpowered compared to other options.
Divine Travel:
The options all put together feel like a bit much. Dimension dooring at will could be fine (although it's a bit too easy, IMHO), flight plus teleportation & feather fall would also be fine, but getting the whole package feels a bit crude.
Personal Plane:
Underpowered, kind of, in comparison to other options.
Overall, Manifestation of Divinity offers abilities that are great group utility and options that are great (and unfortunately, sometimes overpowered) combat options, but since you can only pick one of 'em, you're having to choose between sucking at combat or getting the more flavorful worldly stuff.
"they still dies of old age" - die.
Hamper the Competition: You make the shift from 'they' to 'you' midway through a sentence or two.
'cannot die from natural causes' - this is kinda vague. Clarify that it's only old age?
'This ability extends the Quasi-God's Venerable or Great Wyrm Age Category by an infinite amount' - what? Clarify.
n addition they gain a bonus equal to 1/2 their HD to: a number of class skills equal to their skill points/level-2. What? Clarify.
{table=head]Category|Score
Originality| 2 (I think I could get the vast majority of the effects with cleric levels & self-buffs and/or multiclassing for some of the features. Those features I couldn't get this way, like Aura of Divinity, I find problematic. I can see the effort though, and the limited wish is certainly unique)
Playability| 2.5 (the 'fill in the blank' BAB, saves, skills, make it kind of a hassle to level up and/or double-check stats at the table.)
Power| 3.5 (Deduction for issues with Aura of Divinity, class options, such as Manifestation of Divinity options, don't seem well balanced against one another.)
Elegance| 1.5 (The *'s and ensuing choices, odd +cha to natural armor, mispelling, numerous readability/format issues, unconventional shorthand use of stuff like '1/5 rounds'.)
Flavor| 2.5 (Can't seem to decide whether it's a god or is becoming a god, some abilities like divine spark, aura of divinity, offer lots of stuff for good quasi-gods and insufficient options for evil/aggressive ones)
Overall| 12, average 2.4[/table]


Cloaker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10126561&postcount=23)
It seems weird to me that you've got this thing flipping and flying and leaping about, and you've got a good will save and crappy reflex.
"Skills Points at 1rst Level" - just say 1st or better yet, first.
"It can still use its whiplike tail to strike at other targets." - I like this, but it needs more defining in how it works. Perhaps clarify that you can bite an engulfed target and tail whip an adjacent opponent as a full round action?
"Attacks that hit an engulfing cloaker deal half their damage to the monster and half to the trapped victim." - silly question, but what about attacks directed at the trapped victim? Does half go to the cloaker?
Obscure Features: Perhaps lower to 1/2 the Cloaker's HD?
For engulf, come to think of it, you should say something like 'the Cloaker may engulf an opponent that unwittingly tries to wear it' with a big bonus on the grapple check for catching the enemy by surprise.
Moan:
Needs clarification, based on the initial sentences. Can it use each ability on the list a number of times a day equal to its HD? Or just use one of the abilities?
Allow the Cloaker to reduce the radius?
I don't like the automatic penalty of Unnerve.
"overcome by nausea and weakness." - The 'weakness' bit is misleading.
Nauseated is a pretty powerful condition. 1d4+1 rounds is a long duration.
'affective' should be 'effective'.
{table=head]Category|Score
Originality| 4.5 (The playstyle, with the leaps, engulfs and the like, feels distinct and unique.)
Playability| 4 (Solid enough, but see Power, moans look hazardous to allies)
Power| 3 (Needs a way around freedom of movement, some of the moans are a little too powerful)
Elegance| 4 (Pretty consistent throughout, but some abilities need clarification, fixing.)
Flavor| 4.5 (The monster comes across very well.)
Overall|20, average 4.[/table]


Vivisector (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10219990&postcount=129)
The skills available generally shouldn't exceed 3x your skill points a level. If you've got 2+int mod skill points a level, 6 skills on your list is more than enough. Vivisector has 16 skills on its list and only 2 skill points a level.
Further, I don't know that disable device is a great fit. Knowledge (Religion), knowledge (arcane) and sense motive don't necessarily fit my vision of the creature either.
You don't state source.
'To ingest/regurgitate each (or both)
ring(s) requires a full-round action. ' - accidental line break there. Should just be a space (not a new paragraph) between (or both) and ring(s). Also, I'd reword to 'to ingest or regurgitate one or both rings requires a full round action.'
Why the hell does Vivisector have listen as a class skill if it automatically fails all listen checks?
'Anything with a skeletal system can be Vivisected for Bones, but all Undead can ONLY be Vivisected for Bones. Slime is specific to Oozes, and the only thing you can take from an Ooze. Construct Essence is the only thing that can be harvested from a Construct, and can only be harvested from a Construct. ' - I'd just note which applies to what on the actual list, so the text above is cleaner.
"they may internally pickle an organ for a number of days equal to your CON Mod" - Yours as a player? You switch from 'they' to 'your'.
I don't love CON being CAPITALIZED like that, especially when you don't do it ELSEWHERE.
Poison needs to scale.
It doesn't have a lot to do in combat (until 4th level, you just claw at people and hope for a foe to coup de grace, and even after that, you're only adding invisbiility to your repetoire. As such, it kind of lacks a role. It seems built as a melee DPS character, but it's going to get outclassed by most (barbarian, any ToB, even some rangers, etc.) in that department.
{table=head]Category|Score
Originality|4 (The whole stealing/using organs is cool, other abilities are fine, if not amazing)
Playability| 3 (I wonder if it lacks a defined role. See last point on list, above.)
Power| 2.5 (Poison doesn't scale,
Elegance| 2.5 (source missing,
Flavor| 2.5 (skill list is kind of unintuitive. Aside from a minor bonus to crit range/scale and the whole coup de grace thing, it doesn't really 'vivisect' in combat.)
Overall|14.5, 2.9 average.[/table]


Razor Boar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10227868&postcount=139)
"Skills Points at 1rst Level:" should be 1st or first. Latter preferred.
Perhaps change 'low growls' in Razor Boar Body to 'snorts and growls'?
Surge of Force:
HD+4 is a lot of surges of strength. Maybe change to 'A number of times per day equal to its HD or its Str mod' - this, I'm finding, is a good way to offer a good few uses at low levels while ensuring it scales smoothly into higher levels. With that, the Razor Boar will typically have about 4 to start with, maybe 5 at second and third levels, and then plateau out.
In any case, 'Once per day per HD+4' is awkward. Why not five times a day + the Razor Boar's HD?
Trample:
Don't use '.5HD'.
"A boar that scents a foe that has injured it in the last 24 hours gets +10 ft to their movement speed and ignores terrain for the purpose of calculating overland movement as long as they are pursuing that foe." - Is the +10' movement speed only for the overland movement? It's kind of confusing as read. Perhaps 'A boar that scents a foe that has injured it in the last 24 hours gets +10' to its movement speed as long as it is pursuing that foe. It ignores terrain hindrances for the purposes of calculating overland movement while tracking that foe.' That's only if you meant the two to be read as separate. If they're the same, try to reword to emphasize that fact.
Wrench:
"Against manufactured weapons this is treated as a disarm attempt for which the boar is treated as wielding a two-handed weapon." - you use 'treated' two times there. Reword to 'for which the boar is considered to be wielding a two-handed weapon." ?
"a reflex save DC 10 + .5 HD + str." - don't use '.5 HD'. Also, stress Str mod.
Sharp Tusks:
"Additionally, whenever the boar threatens a critical hit its critical multiplier increases by 1 for each point the unmodified attack roll was higher than the minimum roll needed to threaten a critical hit. Additionally, the boar's tusks are treated as adamantine for the purposes of penetrating damage reduction and hardness." - you use additionally twice here. Replace the second one with 'finally' or 'lastly'?
Unstoppable:
"However, if the boar's hitpoints go below the point where it normally would have died it cannot be healed back above that point by normal magic." - This may be unnecessary. Just let them be healed back up if they get below -10hp and the party has the means & the ability to heal them in time. Deleting it & the sentence that follows would make for cleaner text
"If it has the improved critical feat for its tusks or if they gain the keen property from some other source increase their critical threat range by one, these bonuses do not stack and are not multiplied by the keen property." - maybe add 'instead' in there somewhere?
"its critical multiplier is halved when it does so.(round up, apply after sharp tusks)" - The bracketed bit should be a sentence of its own.
"Reflexive Gore: At ninth level the razor boar's reflexes quicken, allowing it to gore its foes as it runs. When a foe fails their reflex save or misses their attack of opportunity against the trampling boar they provoke an attack of opportunity from the boar. A foe who intentionally fails their save does not provoke this attack." - if you intend for this to be a buff to Trample, it should be clearer.
{table=head]Category|Score
Originality|4.5 (It's good.)
Playability|4 (Some text -Wrench, Barrel Through included- is overlong or complicated considering what it does. Otherwise looks enjoyable to play and it does what it needs to)
Power|4.5 (No complaints.)
Elegance| 3 ('.5HD', some grammar issues, some text feels unnecessary.)
Flavor|3.5 (It works, it fits, but a part of me is disappointed that it didn't emphasize crits or the whole 'hunt you down and murder you' flavor more. Sure, you get lots of effective crits, but the active abilities stress other stuff.)
Overall|19.5, average 3.9[/table]


Black Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10246297&postcount=149)
Picture has an icky rectangle on it. Could stand to be replaced. There's a lot of good art out there if you're willing to look at it.
Let me state for the record that I find dragons problematic. I have been pretty vocal about the fact that I don't think they were terribly well balanced from the start, and all the dragons that have been made with that base template in mind have carried those problems forward. With that said, I'm going to review this dragon ignoring what precedents have been set (despite my complaints) in the past. As such, please do keep in mind that my complaints aren't directed entirely at you or your work so much as the overall Dragon project, as it's been done thus far.
We don't do full BAB and +Str on the same creature. Especially not those with scads of natural attacks.
At 1st and 2nd level the Dragon is pretty overstrong. Compare to a swordsage - you've got spells (which you'll be using primarily to buff yourself) a breath weapon soon after, and a full attack that delivers three attacks for 1d8+Str, 1d6+½Str and 1d6+½Str again. Considering that enemies you face will have 6-10+Con mod hp, you're doing enough raw damage on a full attack to off two opponents a round (assuming you take multiattack, which is kind of a foregone conclusion). This is at a point in time when the swordsage is 5 levels away from delivering iterative attacks and is using a maneuver to maybe deal a bonus 1d6 damage.
State in the ability descriptions when the ability is gained. ie. At second level, the Dragon gains the ability to... The third level Dragon may... Upon reaching fifth level, the Dragon can...
"At level 6, the Black Dragon can cast Charm Person or Animal 1 per day per 3 hit dice" - better to phrase it 'once per day per three hit dice.' as it reads better.
Under Spell Like Abilities: "Save DC:s are equal to 10+1/2 HD+Charisma Modifier." - this belongs above the 'at level 13' bit. Should probably be included in the text itself. In fact, that whole blurb needs just a bit of fleshing out. It's very truncated.
"At level 4 the Black dragon becomes able to fly with a speed of" - awkward wording.
"Each wing can also be now used to deliver a secondary natural attack dealing 1d4+1/2 str damage." - I take a bit of issue with this, as we've now got five natural attacks at 4th level, before your party swordsage even has one iterative attack. If the dragon took a level in an initiator class for fifth level, it could get something like Punishing Stance, allowing it to deliver 5 attacks with a bonus +1d6 damage on each. I just see this getting out of hand.
Levels 3, 7, 8, 11, and maybe a few others, at a glance, look rather dull. Like, you're either gaining something passive that a dozen other monsters have (DR, SR, Blindsense, immunity to disease, ability to see in darkness) or you're gaining an ability that probably isn't going to prove useful more than once every level or two (corrupt water).
Weakening breath states "At level 14, the dragon may, instead of using Diseased Breath in conjunction with its breath weapon, instead use Weakening Breath." - but you don't get diseased breath until later.
Weakening Breath - you take a penalty? That's not terribly exciting, since you can't off a creature with it. Beyond that, how long does the penalty last?
I always found Crush rather undignified.
You have several ways of applying sickened, but they tend to come up really late in the class, when that particular status effect isn't all that great.
Impure Breath is kind of underwhelming as a capstone.
{table=head]Category|Score
Originality|2 (Stuff that sets it apart from other dragons is few and far between, some abilities -such as Diseased breath and impurity- overlap with one another in terms of effect)
Playability| 2 (Some really dull levels with nothing meaningful gained.)
Power| 2.5 (Too powerful at very early levels, too many natural attacks too quickly, arcane spellcasting besides)
Elegance|3 (Missing consistent "at 2nd level the dragon may...", "1 per day per 3 hit dice", awkward/insufficient wording in many places, some abilities are kind of awkward in execution (weakening breath)
Flavor| 3.5 (It's a dragon, has all the individual dragon parts, but doesn't feel all that much like a dragon. Does that make sense? It just doesn't give off the feel of something majestic, awe inspiring and powerful, kings/queens of monsters.)
Overall|14, average 2.8.[/table]

Hellfire Wyrm (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10271903&postcount=254)
Right off the bat, I note that levels 18 and 19 are dead. Off the twig, kicked the bucket, shuffled off their mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible. They's dead levels, mate.
"Before you say anything about the lack of wings or tail slap attack, the original monster didn't have them either. Hence the increase in maneuverability." - but, there's wings on the table?
Not many class skills. If a PC happens to have more than a +2 int mod, they'll be forced to take cross class skill ranks.
See the Black Dragon, directly above, for my complaints on plethora of natural attacks, progression issues, etc.
On the table, you list abilities in the 'feature' column, ending the line with a comma. See levels two and seven.
Hellfire wyrm body: It gains the fire subtype, but I'd stress that it gains fire immunity and cold vulnerability in the same sentence, for clarity, rather than sticking it at the end.
SLAs: Ways the SLAs are gained is really hard to follow.
SLAs: Also, I really dislike when people use algebra in the entries. Like, "X is ____". Just list it with each individual level. Or hell, make a table.
Again, just like on the table, levels 3 and 8 on the SLAs list end in commas.
Alternate form is notoriously abusable. I'd detail it very carefully, lest people assume humanoid forms that give them abilities that can break the game on a pun-pun level.
Hellfire Breath: State what hellfire damage is.
Hellfire Aura, I don't like. It makes for too many damage rolls and bogs down play.
End sentences with periods (re: Persuasive)
Tainted Skin: That DR shows up pretty late.
Temptation of Hell: Would reword to "Any SLAs the Hellfire Wyrm gains that have the mind affecting descriptor can now..."
Master Weapons of Hell: Why 3 damage? Why increase in multiples of three?
{table=head]Category|Score
Originality|2.5 (Stuff that sets it apart from other dragons is few and far between, )
Playability| 1 (Unfinished class, some levels are dull, hellfire aura bogs down play)
Power| 3 (Too powerful at very early levels, too many natural attacks too quickly)
Elegance|1.5 (table formatting, dead levels, and other inconsistencies in the text (orphaned commas) lead me to believe the monster isn't done. Some stuff isn't explained.
Flavor| 3.5 (It's a dragon, has all the individual dragon parts, but doesn't feel all that much like a dragon. Does that make sense? It just doesn't give off the feel of something majestic, awe inspiring and powerful, kings/queens of monsters.)
Overall|11.5 Average 2.3[/table]

Aboleth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10367328&postcount=473)
Rather than have an overly extensive skill list, why not a class feature that lets it consolidate the list? Like, 'pick 2 skills that share an ability score involvement (such as hide and move silently, which are both dex based skills). You may merge these skills into a new skill, using that skill when either of the two parent skills would be called for. This process of skill consolidation may be performed twice at first level and once more with Aboleth class levels 3, 5 and 7.' So you've got Aboleths combining Autohypnosis and Sense Motive into a new skill, which they dub 'Sensory Detection' or Gather Information and Use Magic Device into a new skill, dubbed 'Apocrypha'. Suitably alien and unfathomable for the Aboleth, no? This would probably replace Memory of the Aeons.
First level, as I read it, kind of sucks. I mean, you get two lamesauce tentacle attacks, low base land speed, no natural armor, and your class skills at level one are a sorta-boost to knowledge checks and a choice between Aquatic (amphibious) Subtype with a Cantrip, Aquatic (non-amphibious) subtype with swim bonuses, amphibious traits with outsider subtype and a bite attack or air subtype with a permanent feather fall effect. I mean, I think a CR 1/3 goblin could kick your 1st level Aboleth's rear.
I don't know that I love the 'hide from the land dwellers' that keeps coming up in amphibious path. It doesn't seem fitting flavor.
'Cha Mod times per day...' (amphibious path) - reword to 'A number of times a day equal to the Aboleth's Cha mod...'
'equal to half it's HD' - it has HD. I swear, I'm going to put the same rule into effect for it's that I have for spelling errors. I refer you to:
http://www.angryflower.com/itsits.gif
"It's slimy skin and fluid movement lets it function in many ways as if they" - switching from it's (which is wrong, again) to 'they'.
"The Aboleth can use weapons designed for a creature one size smaller without penalty." - does this mean it gets proficiency for such weapons? Why would you even want this, otherwise?
"the Aboleth gains a continual Freedom of Movement effect on it's person at all times." - bob the angry flower just busted a forehead vein.
"IV - The Aboleth's swimming skills become unparalleled, and it can avoid most hazards effortlessly. The Aboleth can, once per day, ." - can what? Candleja
"It also gain a bite attack dealing 1d4 + Str Mod " - gains?
"The Aboleth gains a bonus to Intimidate equal to 1/4 it's HD ... and it's thick skin gives it DR 5/Magic" - Bob the Angry Flower is frothing at the mouth.
"III - The Aboleth learns how to Slime Bomb it's opponents in glorious warfare." - Bob the Angry Flower just shed a tear.
"IV - Its Flight Speed doubles..." Yes! :smallbiggrin:
"...As a move action, it can move triple it's flight speed" No! :smallyuk:
I give up! I just really hope that it's coming across that this looks iffy, because I'm thinking about setting a rule that if I come across "it's" used wrong more than twice, I'm quitting the critique right then & there.
Really don't like how Just as Planned scales. It feels awkward. The progression of abilities doesn't feel right.
@ just as planned: Why even have an autohypnosis check if the DC is that low? 5 skill ranks + stat mod and you're not going to lose on anything short of a 1-3, anyways.
Forbidden Dreaming still feels useless, and in the end, 3rd level is really dull too.
Convert the Flesh isn't going to help you as an adventurer - foes won't die from it until long, long after combat ends. So all you're really getting from it is a reduction in enemy's natural armor. A bonus worse and harder to apply than a 1st level spell.
Drowning ooze, can't tell whether it intends for you to be underwater or not. Regardless, it's got the same flaw as convert the flesh. Enemies won't die from it before your fellow adventurers mince them.
Enslave the Mortals: Having charmed/dominated/enslaved/zombie minions is really problematic. If you've got an army of beholders or mages, then stuff starts to get wonky balancewise. In any event, basing stuff off HD is also really problematic, too.
Still don't like the save or lose Nostalgia ability at 7th level.
{table=head]Category|Score
Originality| 2 (some very unexciting levels, has very few/no abilities that are both effective and interesting/unique to it.)
Playability| 1.5 (Feels like it really lacks a defined role. You don't get enough uses of the stuff that defines the class, like illusions and horrifying mind bending/body warping corruptions, so you're just tentacle slapping a lot, virtually dead 1st and 3rd levels, 4th sorta dead, )
Power| 1.5 (Really weak first level, third level, fourth, fifth levels. Enslave the Mortals is potentially gamebreaking, as is Drowned in Nostalgia.)
Elegance| 2 (Countless its/it's mixups, just as planned feels really jarring in how it scales with HD,
Flavor| 3.5 ('hide from the land dwellers' is kinda off. You more or less hit the target as far as this category goes, but it still feels something's missing.)
Overall|10.5 - 2.1 average.[/table]


Phase Wasp (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10399951&postcount=524)
Thank the pantheon, finally, a short monster.
There's a format error, before your first spoiler, you've got:

"d6 HD
{spoiler]"sticking out there.
As is, it's liable to gain more skill points than it has class skills to spend them on.
Tiny creatures are problematic. The phase wasp exemplifies these problems. It can't do anything early on except what every other tiny creature does. Hide, try to enter enemy's space, attack, pray AC keeps it alive.
It can't do anything at 1st level. Considering that's half the class, this is unfortunate.
'understand its body language and low growls enough' - phase wasps growl? Maybe Chirp? Chitter?
Phase Powers: While this helps the class, it still leaves you stuck in the tiny creature dynamic for 2-5 rounds after you use it. Since that demands you either do nothing or try to enter the enemy's space, you're liable to be in an awkward spot when it comes time to use the ability again.
I feel badly because it's a short monster and I wanted to give it much love, but I'm fairly certain it just wouldn't work as is, as a two level investment replacing your race and class.
{table=head]Category|Score
Originality|2 (It's virtually identical to a half dozen other tiny creatures at 1st level, and 2nd level doesn't add nearly enough to compensate.)
Playability|1 (I don't think a player who sat down at the table with this would do very well. I might even argue some familiars would outclass it pretty badly.)
Power|2 (It's pretty underpowered)
Elegance| 3 (Pretty good, but indented bits of the text and the italics rather than bolds for ability names do make it kinda hard to follow)
Flavor| 3.5 (Can't complain here, I guess. I think an ability at 1st level that helps sell the wasp's nature would help)
Overall|9.5, average 1.9[/table]

Bleakborn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9618000&postcount=669), Remorhaz (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9980073&postcount=505), Gray Jester (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10051752&postcount=693), Flesh Golem (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10073494&postcount=714), Ettercap (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10249821&postcount=151)
No changes since last critique (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10397344#post10397344)

Skeroloth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10253686&postcount=172), Lodestone Marauder (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10262500&postcount=196), Marrash (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10308045&postcount=324)
Added to the list.

Ragewalker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10374313&postcount=495)
Given the volume of stuff I've done thus far, gonna wait for you to finish working on it (assigning ability scores) before giving you a thorough review.

Corrupted Creature (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10331050&postcount=365)
No changes since 02-08-11.

For the sake of my own sanity, I'm not scoring or critiquing monsters that haven't responded to my last critique. Monsters that got a bonus critique as per my modest proposal (Chuul, Violet Fungus) are excepted.

I hope no feelings are hurt by the scoring. I really do want to help everyone make their submissions as good as possible.

So, let me know what you think of the scoring. Does it help, is it interesting, does it make it easier to get a sense of other people's monsters? Your response will affect whether I do it again (it's a touch more time consuming, I must admit).

Edit: Hit the character limit. Posting the rest after I get a reply, so I'm not triple posting.

Gorgondantess
2011-02-24, 01:04 AM
Personally, I think the scoring system is a mite hackneyed. Points for flavor and elegance, but playability is just shot.
I mean...
Okay, so those criteria are good. Just fine, in fact. However, it's just... assigning arbitrary numbers strikes me as pointless and futile. What score passes? Just say power: (what's right or wrong with it). Originality: (what's right or wrong with it). Etc. What does a 3 mean? What does a 4 mean? What does a 1 mean? Sure, you could assign values to these numbers, but the fact remains that they're still totally arbitrary and really it would be rather easier to just say it outright.
Also, I want to see a Saguaro review.:smallbiggrin:

Hyudra
2011-02-24, 01:15 AM
Personally, I think the scoring system is a mite hackneyed. Points for flavor and elegance, but playability is just shot.
I mean...
Okay, so those criteria are good. Just fine, in fact. However, it's just... assigning arbitrary numbers strikes me as pointless and futile. What score passes? Just say power: (what's right or wrong with it). Originality: (what's right or wrong with it). Etc. What does a 3 mean? What does a 4 mean? What does a 1 mean? Sure, you could assign values to these numbers, but the fact remains that they're still totally arbitrary and really it would be rather easier to just say it outright.
Also, I want to see a Saguaro review.:smallbiggrin:

I did have details listed for the individual numbers (so what a 5 meant, what a 4 meant, etc), but cut it to make room for the phase wasp. And I did have a blurb where I admitted that playability was admittedly subjective, but I scrapped that too somewhere along the line.

The intent behind the numbers (and the scoring system in general) is that I wanted to give a more concrete kind of feedback. I feel, sometimes, that I make a comment, and it gets looked at, the change gets made, but without something solid to point to (like an actual number), the person doing the monster doesn't understand the impact of the accumulated issues.

But when I can say, on a scale of 1 to 5, the errors in this department bring you down to a 1, then that might serve as a wake up call. I dunno.

Violet Fungus, Rast, Magmite Magmin, Saguaro Sentinel and Chuul I'll do tomorrow. Honestly, that batch (11 in depth critiques) took me hours, so I hope it's appreciated by some. I'm all worn out now.

Gorgondantess
2011-02-24, 01:41 AM
The intent behind the numbers (and the scoring system in general) is that I wanted to give a more concrete kind of feedback. I feel, sometimes, that I make a comment, and it gets looked at, the change gets made, but without something solid to point to (like an actual number), the person doing the monster doesn't understand the impact of the accumulated issues.
But my point was that assigning something so concrete as a number to something so complex as a monster class review is inescapably arbitrary. Even with a number guideline.


But when I can say, on a scale of 1 to 5, the errors in this department bring you down to a 1, then that might serve as a wake up call. I dunno.

...Perhaps. Though I think it would be simpler to just change how you review to reflect this as opposed to creating a whole new system.

Violet Fungus, Rast, Magmite Magmin, Saguaro Sentinel and Chuul I'll do tomorrow. Honestly, that batch (11 in depth critiques) took me hours, so I hope it's appreciated by some. I'm all worn out now.

Weren't you going to do the Saguaro Sentinel a few days ago?:smalltongue:

Hyudra
2011-02-24, 01:58 AM
Weren't you going to do the Saguaro Sentinel a few days ago?:smalltongue:

Lies. All lies.

Psyborg
2011-02-24, 03:07 AM
Yay! More monster classes getting close to done! :smallsmile:

Seriously. These (meaning the project as a whole, and nearly all of its classes) are awesome. Y'all are...well, absolutely bonkers, of course, but at least your craziness is both productive and appreciated. Keep it up!- after adequate sleep and/or caffeine, though, please. :smallsigh:

Kobold-Bard
2011-02-24, 03:38 AM
This is my resignation from monster class making (dramatic, isn't it).

I am not inherently a creative person; which was sort fine under Oslecamo because as long as a class looked like he monster and had all it's abilities it was good, but these days I'm starting classes and everyone is essentially finishing then by proxy because I can't come up with anything new.

The Quasi-God is never going to be finished, and under the new system most of my monsters are likely going to need to be redone by someone else anyway. Add to that the fact that I apparently can't use simple English and I just can't be bothered, it's not fun to me anymore.

Please move the Quasi-God, Rast & Magmin to the abandoned list & the Chimera is up for grabs again. Thanks for the memories & keep up the good work.

Crafty Cultist
2011-02-24, 03:51 AM
Bleakborn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9618000&postcount=669):
I wonder if greater brittle strike isn't redundant. I mean, at 7th level, you've got 21 uses of your brittle strike. At ~4 encounters per day, this is ~5 uses per encounter. By 8th or 9th level you'll have enough uses not to care anymore.

Greater Brittle strike was added on advice for Gorgondantess. It may not be that major an ability, but it means you dont have to keep track of how many uses you've used that day. Less number tallying makes it a bit easier to play right?

The Winter King
2011-02-24, 04:08 AM
Jovoc (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9955384&postcount=425)
Phase Wasp (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10399951&postcount=524)

Some Fixes to the above.
@Hyudra I know breaking the class down by level runs against convention, but I hated going through my books to find out when an ability was gained.

Also heres a feat I thought up when making the Phase Wasp:

Speech of Man
Prerequisites: Unable to speak due to physical limitations
Benefit: You can speak and learn to speak languages regardless of physiology. If you dont understand any languages you speak common.
Normal: These creatures cant speak.

Frog Dragon
2011-02-24, 05:51 AM
Ah, the timing is awkward. We just got an influx of new monsters, and you've still got the Black Dragon, a 20 level creature, to finish. As Gorgon said, we're asking people to please ask and get the a-ok before they add more to the overall workload (be it a new monster or a revision). New contributors are perfectly fine, but people with existing projects adding new stuff to the pile is kind of problematic, and leads to us being buried.

Can I ask that you please finish Black Dragon, and then remind us of those two when we've got that nearly done?

I'm being a little picky about that (in this post & the one above) because I'm only midway through a mass critique of some 17 monsters. I'm kinda bothered by the prospect of adding more, unnecessarily.
Actually, I modified the black dragon as well. Currently, I've been trying to work through my backlog of monsters needing modifications, making sure it's all in order before I tackle anything new. It may not have been the wisest of decisions, but I have now edited both the Black Dragon, the Mezzoloth and the Nycaloth. I started revising those a while ago, so it's not like I started now, when problems with the Black Dragon had been pointed out.

I'm fine with stalling my critters, but the Nycaloth and the Mezzoloth have gone under heavy overhauling since they were added to the list, so I don't think they belong in the finished monsters list anymore.

Edit: To clarify, all of this is pretty much finished, and only needs a final look-through.

Edit 2: And I'm just going to go back to my dragon now.

NineThePuma
2011-02-24, 05:59 AM
I give the number system a 2.1 score. On what scale? Why, I'll never tell!

More seriously... As KB has abandoned the Quasi-God and I'm something of a grammar nerd (though I'm not perfect and its more of an experience thing than an interest), I'd like to take it up.

I will probably relate the class to cleric domains, probably offering 4 of them which will each adjust the chassis slightly. The base chassis will be weak, but with the benefits it shouldn't be too bad.

I'm going to take a page out of 2e's clerics and probably expand the spheres significantly, but that's still debatable, and I've been awake for a while, so...

DiBastet
2011-02-24, 06:31 AM
I'm more or less with kobold bard in this one. I don't believe in the strength of the points system. it seems arbitrary, it seems... deppreciative. We're all striving for quality and to make something that will last (even if "last" is a lurker looking around to find a class for his lamia, medusa or nymph monster character he wanted so much to play).

I fear that under Creativity people will be shunned because the monster class does more or less what the monster does. Sure there are some incredible base classes around, but some are just "boring" with a little thing or another (like, let's say, the barbarian). I understand the need for iconic abilities to be gained at low levels, then become fully fleshed then maybe adding some lore abilities related to the ones the monster already gains, but I fear a player comes with a whole different monster and players say "What? Doesnt seem like an aboleth..."

I like Playability. Sure I believe "simples is better", so I find it nice to make abilities simpler than to create a whole new system. it's nice when an ability seems like other you see around. Sure, the newwer MM show many exclusive abilities, but they are mostly in a format that you already saw around. But then, I speak again for a Compatibility issue, to give a more...lenient... view on abilities and things that look closer to the original.

No problems with Power. The thread's guidelines are like a 3.5 and "for designers" view of what appeared on savage species. I believe a DM presented with a class from the thread would look at the guidelines and say "oh, that's good, no need to worry with this unbalancing thing" or something like that. Once more, I speak for Compatibility, making exceptions for some certain monsters. There are some monster that really have abilities beyond what is common, but it's part of the monster. I know it's a monter class, don't negate my review based on that, it's just that I find strange if a player comes to a DM with a Rakhshasa and he says "well, cool, but where's your uber SR?" or something like that. Balance is NEEDED, but there are some things where we could allow a little to escape if it was balanced with a little other a little under...

Elegance is a must. Just be careful not to be to Nazi. I feel offended if I'm on Phase One of monster creation, just wanting some evaluation on abilities, and all people do is say "it's nor "herz", but "hers"" and stop evaluation. For god's sake, if it's not on the final version, please. Let. Go. It really offends and sounds a little too Nazi.

Flavor is cool. I defended it a lot of times above.

Now, I like the categories. I dont like the points. "What, I get 1 on everything???" isn't a goo thing to think when you put yourself into the creation of something and people don't seem to care. there's a lot of hardcore homebrewers that won't care for a low rating, but if you want just the old hardcore to participate then it's cool. But then, there are many people that look "hey, monster classes! Maybe I could try making one too" and really, make One. It's participating. And "we" (since I'm just a "first time poster") should encourage people to participate. And I tell you, a point review isn't exactly encouraging, as people don't want to feel ashamed with a 1...

besides, how much is enough. Ohh, I got nmany 4. Is it approved yet? it seems artificial. It would be better get the whole review and leave the numbers behind. besides, you said it takes you a lot more time to use it, so why use it? Use the time and space for some constructive criticism on more classes. I kinda feel annoyed when I say that I want people to point me if there's something wrong in the balance in the actual phase and I know I don't receive some good criticism because some table and arbitrary numbers are on the way...

Oh, and finally. An "Except for the things I said all in all it's cool" here and there goes a loooong way to encourage people. You know "well, at least there's something people liked, let's keep going".


Please, if a lot of my in-depth review sound a little Emo, understand that I'm trying to get thing on a more positive view. It's hard work on a forum and in the internet in general, but it can be done.

PS: This review took me 30 minutes. Tried to be positive and support the thing I liked, but point in a constructive way the ones I don't. Hope you like it.

Frog Dragon
2011-02-24, 08:51 AM
Black Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10246297&postcount=149)
Picture has an icky rectangle on it. Could stand to be replaced. There's a lot of good art out there if you're willing to look at it. Apart from the rectangle, I did like that picture a lot. But anyhow, it has been replaced.
Let me state for the record that I find dragons problematic. I have been pretty vocal about the fact that I don't think they were terribly well balanced from the start, and all the dragons that have been made with that base template in mind have carried those problems forward. With that said, I'm going to review this dragon ignoring what precedents have been set (despite my complaints) in the past. As such, please do keep in mind that my complaints aren't directed entirely at you or your work so much as the overall Dragon project, as it's been done thus far. I considered doing some modifications to the template, but I figured it would stray too much from how the other dragons were done.
We don't do full BAB and +Str on the same creature. Especially not those with scads of natural attacks. Halved the strength bonus. It's not getting any until level 5, and it caps out at +3 now.
At 1st and 2nd level the Dragon is pretty overstrong. Compare to a swordsage - you've got spells (which you'll be using primarily to buff yourself) a breath weapon soon after, and a full attack that delivers three attacks for 1d8+Str, 1d6+½Str and 1d6+½Str again. Considering that enemies you face will have 6-10+Con mod hp, you're doing enough raw damage on a full attack to off two opponents a round (assuming you take multiattack, which is kind of a foregone conclusion). This is at a point in time when the swordsage is 5 levels away from delivering iterative attacks and is using a maneuver to maybe deal a bonus 1d6 damage. Dropped natural attacks to later levels. It now only has a bite attack until level 8.
State in the ability descriptions when the ability is gained. ie. At second level, the Dragon gains the ability to... The third level Dragon may... Upon reaching fifth level, the Dragon can... Done.
"At level 6, the Black Dragon can cast Charm Person or Animal 1 per day per 3 hit dice" - better to phrase it 'once per day per three hit dice.' as it reads better. Done.
Under Spell Like Abilities: "Save DC:s are equal to 10+1/2 HD+Charisma Modifier." - this belongs above the 'at level 13' bit. Should probably be included in the text itself. In fact, that whole blurb needs just a bit of fleshing out. It's very truncated. Done.
"At level 4 the Black dragon becomes able to fly with a speed of" - awkward wording. Rewrote the ability.
"Each wing can also be now used to deliver a secondary natural attack dealing 1d4+1/2 str damage." - I take a bit of issue with this, as we've now got five natural attacks at 4th level, before your party swordsage even has one iterative attack. If the dragon took a level in an initiator class for fifth level, it could get something like Punishing Stance, allowing it to deliver 5 attacks with a bonus +1d6 damage on each. I just see this getting out of hand. Dropped wing attacks to level 11.
Levels 3, 7, 8, 11, and maybe a few others, at a glance, look rather dull. Like, you're either gaining something passive that a dozen other monsters have (DR, SR, Blindsense, immunity to disease, ability to see in darkness) or you're gaining an ability that probably isn't going to prove useful more than once every level or two (corrupt water). I've shuffled abilities around to try and fix this.
Weakening breath states "At level 14, the dragon may, instead of using Diseased Breath in conjunction with its breath weapon, instead use Weakening Breath." - but you don't get diseased breath until later. Actually you gain Diseased Breath at level 12, but my formatting sucks. I've fixed this, and also made new abilities.
Weakening Breath - you take a penalty? That's not terribly exciting, since you can't off a creature with it. Beyond that, how long does the penalty last? I removed the ability, and replaced it with the Fouled Breath.
I always found Crush rather undignified. The original dragon had it.
You have several ways of applying sickened, but they tend to come up really late in the class, when that particular status effect isn't all that great.
Impure Breath is kind of underwhelming as a capstone. It is no longer a capstone, having been moved to level 18, while Impurity has been moved to level 20, and modified.
{table=head]Category|Score
Originality|2 (Stuff that sets it apart from other dragons is few and far between, some abilities -such as Diseased breath and impurity- overlap with one another in terms of effect)
Playability| 2 (Some really dull levels with nothing meaningful gained.)
Power| 2.5 (Too powerful at very early levels, too many natural attacks too quickly, arcane spellcasting besides)
Elegance|3 (Missing consistent "at 2nd level the dragon may...", "1 per day per 3 hit dice", awkward/insufficient wording in many places, some abilities are kind of awkward in execution (weakening breath)
Flavor| 3.5 (It's a dragon, has all the individual dragon parts, but doesn't feel all that much like a dragon. Does that make sense? It just doesn't give off the feel of something majestic, awe inspiring and powerful, kings/queens of monsters.)
Overall|14, average 2.8.[/table]
I tried to accentuate the flavor of the black dragon some more, but I wasn't really sure how to go about it. The first few levels now have more options, but less power, and I tried to weed out the levels with nothing interesting.

FishAreWet
2011-02-24, 09:42 AM
I think you guys spend too much time arguing about rating systems. Just let it be and keep revising the creatures until everyone is happy. If he wants to grade them by numbers it might help some people understand what needs to be fixed. It sure as hell doesn't hurt.

@Hydura, what's it gonna take for me to get Briarvex (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10000991&postcount=583) off Abandoned Monsters and into Finished Monsters? I've lowered Thorn Burrow damage to cap at 5d6, less then half of what Sneak Attack is doing, and I removed the ability to Entangle with anything less then a Move Action. And I removed creating permanent vegetation with Entangle. I really want to finish up this monster so I can move on to new ones.

Hyudra
2011-02-24, 10:30 AM
Ok, so it looks like the number score is a wash, with no supporters. That's cool. Scrapped.

There does seem to be merit in the individual categories. I think I'll keep that. At the very least, it helps ensure the review is well rounded in its focus.


This is my resignation from monster class making (dramatic, isn't it).

I'm sorry to see you go. Honestly. I feel bad that I contributed to/was the atmosphere of frustration that led to you making that post & if I hurt your feelings in any way. I liked you and by proxy I liked that you were on the project. I hope that, even if you find that atmosphere here to be too demanding for your creations, that you stay a part of the project somehow, either by way of commenting here or by taking a hand in the homebrew monster class thread, where the oversight is more relaxed and (I suspect) creations are more flexible.


Also heres a feat I thought up when making the Phase Wasp:

More than one person has had suggestions for a feat like that. I'm thinking, maybe, we should have a section on the front page, like the one for growth table, that details more in-depth rules (and a feat, agreed upon by all here) for mute monsters and other really common stuff that comes up.


I fear that under Creativity people will be shunned because the monster class does more or less what the monster does. Sure there are some incredible base classes around, but some are just "boring" with a little thing or another (like, let's say, the barbarian). I understand the need for iconic abilities to be gained at low levels, then become fully fleshed then maybe adding some lore abilities related to the ones the monster already gains, but I fear a player comes with a whole different monster and players say "What? Doesnt seem like an aboleth..."

Thanks for the review of the scoring system.

Originality as a category is more intended to promote a little out of the box thinking, within the confines of the monster itself. I'd like to think that with some of my own monsters (Monstrous Spider, Minotaur, Troll), I've taken one trick ponies and made them pretty damn unique to play. The Gargoyle and Razor Boar are other really good examples that have come up recently.
A large part of the reason we're redoing some of the old monsters is because they were 90% the same. Sure, they had whatever class features they had in the monster entry, but the rest was virtually interchangeable. Having a playstyle that breaks the mold (but still keeping in flavor with the monster, of course) gives the monsters a whole other dimension of appeal. Someone comes across the Razor Boar, sees the bull rush follow-through on hit and says, "Oh wow, I could play that" on the merits of the abilities alone, rather than just the fact that they want to play a razor boar.


Oh, and finally. An "Except for the things I said all in all it's cool" here and there goes a loooong way to encourage people. You know "well, at least there's something people liked, let's keep going".

Sure. Kobold-bard's reaction was a bit of a wake up call there. I will strive to be more positive and supportive. I think there's a rule on that on one of the Evil Overlord/Evil Empress lists somewhere.


As KB has abandoned the Quasi-God and I'm something of a grammar nerd (though I'm not perfect and its more of an experience thing than an interest), I'd like to take it up.

Not wasting any time, huh? No, in all seriousness, that may be good. You're not currently working on anything, IIRC, so I don't expect problems there, and your game plan looks solid.


Black Dragon

Dragons are really, really tricky. I mean, even WotC kinda screwed up on Dragons, and they're the professionals.

If we were on a major development team, and we were producing material for a video game, an official book or the like, I'd honestly be pushing for the Dragons to be done last, and then, they'd probably be done with multiple people working on them.

Dragons are the penultimate monsters of D&D. The titular monsters, really.

I like the new picture, by the by.


I think you guys spend too much time arguing about rating systems. Just let it be and keep revising the creatures until everyone is happy. If he wants to grade them by numbers it might help some people understand what needs to be fixed. It sure as hell doesn't hurt.

@Hydura, what's it gonna take for me to get Briarvex off Abandoned Monsters and into Finished Monsters? I've lowered Thorn Burrow damage to cap at 5d6, less then half of what Sneak Attack is doing, and I removed the ability to Entangle with anything less then a Move Action. And I removed creating permanent vegetation with Entangle. I really want to finish up this monster so I can move on to new ones.

She, and to get a monster off the abandoned list just requires that you ask. The abandoned monster thing was just to tidy up the list, as it was cluttered with a good few that hadn't been updated in a month or more. If you intend to update, there's no need for it to be on the abandoned list, right? When I finish the review of the Saguaro Sentinel, I'll update the lists, including moving the Briarvex back.

Just wrapping up here:

Violet Fungus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10400122&postcount=526)
It's flavorful, but weak.
Proficiencies needs to be a complete sentence.
1st level looks like it would struggle. You just have two (low damage) tentacles and an ability that's primarily flavor.
Second level is a bit better with poison, but see the Monstrous Spider for how that monster used poison. The Fungus could stand to have scaling on that level.
Wild Empathy on plants is kinda neat, but what is it going to let you do? Not like empathizing with a tree is going to make you a friend that shifts the tide of a battle.
Poison & Plant Communication appear in that order on the table, but are ordered plant communication, poison in the entry itself.
What size is the violet fungus?
Dire Tentacles helps, but I don't know that it's enough.
Non-organic consumption should have a more concrete effect on game mechanics, I think. Some way to gain strength or gather energy for later use.
{table=head]Category|Score
Originality| Not bad. I can confidently say we don't have organic breakdown as an ability anywhere. Needs more abilities that sell it though. See playability.
Playability| Playability is low. For a player wanting to sit down and play in a campaign spanning 5 levels, the violet fungus is going to struggle. Your options in combat are sorely limited, with even movement being limited to a 10' range. It needs something to make players say "Oh, that's something I want to play." or "That's something I want fighting beside me in a group."
Power| A little off here. Compare to a swordsage, and it falls well behind. Poison could scale better, and it could stand to have more tricks. 1st level is liable to struggle.
Elegance| Pretty good, but proficiencies needs to be fleshed out & there's minor issues with ability order on table vs. text.
Flavor| Superb. Organic Breakdown, Plant Communication & Non Organic Consumption are very flavorful. It does feel like a mushroom. It just needs to feel more like a class too.
[/table]

Señor Saguaro (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10405090&postcount=545)
BAB, saves, look ok. Proficiencies, skills, also ok.
Cactus Body - It probably doesn't need that large a disguise bonus to appear as a nonsentient cactus. Not that that's ever going to come up in a typical campaign.
@Thorns, what if Señor is the one doing the bull rushing, striking, grappling?
I'm halfways surprised that Señor doesn't take more from slashing, but my experience with cactuses is limited to one I got as a gift when I was 15 and I somehow killed it with neglect. How do you kill a freakin' cactus?
Ok, so I'm reading natural defenses, I really like it, but I find myself wondering: is this what the Saguaro Sentinel wants? I mean, you're tough with DR, natural armor beefed by con bonuses, con bonuses and fat HD... and you're discouraging enemies from attacking you in favor of other allies. What's bound to happen, really, is the penultimate trap of Tanks. You'll be tough enough that enemies will ignore you to the best of their ability, murder your teammates and then gang up on you. Or die and then leave the next random encounter to finish you off while you drag your teammates to the local shrine. Most tanks want a way to provoke enemies to attack them, not discourage it. Not saying it's a bad idea, but it runs contrarywise to your already established role.
1000 needles - don't see myself using it that often, really. Maybe that's intended, but the self-damage is a bit rough. I'd only really use it if I had some form of natural healing (fast healing) or if I could damage/blind three or more enemies in a go.
@Improved Grab - "Creatures successfully held by Señor Saguaro take Thorns damage, and any attacks during the grapple also deal thorns damage." - is this in addition to thorns damage stated under thorns?
@Trample - hard to imagine (most cacti aren't very dense, are they?), but sure.
Pin Missile - Get to 20HD, use pin missile, murder half a small city. Not sure I like just how much that radius scales. At 10HD, even, you're still affecting 20 ~squares~ in every direction.
And as far as the penalty goes... assuming at 10HD that you're dealing 4d6 thorns damage, you're dealing between 4 and 24 damage, 14 average. So a -2.8 penalty on average (I use the decimal to point to how close you are to a -3), with a -4 possible. I can live with that.
"After using this ability, Señor Saguaro loses is Thorns, Needle Arms, Pin Missile, Sweep (for the purposes of impalement) & Thorny Grasp ability for 1d4 rounds as the Saguaro Sentinel regrows all its thorns." - needs updating to list abilities you've written since, and you've got 'loses is thorns' instead of 'loses his thorns'.
"Alternately, Señor Saguaro may direct the Pin Missile as a standard action from one arm. This requires a ranged attack roll to strike the target, though it only loses thorn based abilities for one arm." -for one arm?
You know, I had a whole shtick planned for the Ettin, based on making it a bumbling, awkward giant, with the two headed bit to mix things up. The falling on people was part of that. But the Ettin was already done. Ah well. Looks like it works.
@Arm Growth - I had to reread it. RAW, with only the example to bring us back to sanity, you'd get 2 new arms (two additional arms) at 10th, for a total of 5, three additional arms at 15th for a total of 8, etc. I'd reword.
Sweep - include a "At 9th level..." blurb. There's weird line breaks/paragraphing going on there, formatwise.
"Creatures impaled in this manner are brought along with Señor Saguaro as it moves, and may attack it with a -4 penalty to attack," - the bit at the end is redundant.
"Creatures thrown are considered improvised thrown weapons with a base damage of 1d10 for a medium sized creature and a range of 10'" - a range of 10' or a range increment of 10', just checking.
"The thrown creature takes as much damage as it would deal " - Awkward. Clarify?
{table=head]Category|Score
Originality|Pretty solid. Thorns sorta overlaps with the purple worm's own defensive spikes, but seems more defensively oriented. I've wanted to see a solid melee debuffer, just didn't expect it from a cactus.
Playability| I anticipate no playability problems here. Looks good. Don't know, though, that it'd be a monster that I'd be excited to play, if someone offered me a spot at their table and handed me a saguaro sentinel character sheet. The class pretty much begs you to get Goad or some equivalent from somewhere though.
Power| Looks solid. Maybe a bit of a weakness in having all those brawny defenses vs. tank syndrome, but no real issues. 1000 needles may be a little weak.
Elegance|A few abilities need clarification.
Flavor|I think you hit the mark, as far as selling a cactus person. Can't think of anything that's particularly out of place or that could be added.[/table]


Chuul (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10414321&postcount=585)
"Lobster-Squid-Fish-Man Body:" -> rename to Chuul body? Standardization!
"Additionally the chuul may choose to ignore the frail power of the gods, gaining spell resistance 10+HD against divine spells only." -> "frail power of the gods" seems out of place. Also, a bit early to be gaining spell resistance.
The attribute bonuses to wisdom need to be better clarified on the table, since the way it's shown, it implies it's the player's choice.
Again, under experiment gone awry, feels a bit early to be getting SR (other creatures get it at 2nd level at the earliest.)
The constrict bonus... That's a pretty sizable bonus. In fact, what it looks like you're doing is making That Damn Crab. That is, you've got an absolute grab/constrict machine. For example:

Charlie the Chuul with Experiment Gone Awry origin attacks Nancy the Warlock, both level 2. Charlie's got a +6 attack bonus, and Nancy's got AC 16. Charlie makes a full attack against Nancy, Delivering two attacks, Charlie needs a 10+ to hit. Two 50% chances to hit.

Assuming Charlie does land a hit (odds are in his favor), he deals 1d8+5 damage, makes a grapple check (+5 from Str bonus, so odds again liable to be in his favor against a typical humanoid) and deals 2d6+5 damage if successful. Charlie's got 7 average claw damage (two claws that can hit) and 12 average constrict damage. Nancy's liable to have 15hp.
It's a bit too much.
@Tentacles: Don't use .5Str It's hard to read and can be very much misinterpreted. Use 1/2 or ½. (The latter can be made by turning on numlock, holding alt, typing 1, 7, 1 on numpad, then releasing alt).
Third level, armor spikes. Adding gravy to the grapple monstrosity. May be a bit much, but this issue should go away when you've got the rest of the grapple engine sorted out.
@ lurking predator: I don't like a dependence on water. It's not necessarily that common (or consistently common) as terrain features go, and it tends to make for a creature that is fantastic in some environments and terrible in others. It's like favored enemy/favored terrain. You're only really special when your favored enemy/terrain isn't on the field.
@ otherworldly preacher: 'this does not scale after it is gained' - don't do this. It forces players to procrastinate on gaining levels in the monster class until the latest possible time.
@ one among many: Ok, so I've got the murderous claw/improved grapple/constrict machine in place. Now, in the battle against the BBEG, I can gain +3 claw attacks. This will make DMs throw heavy books at you.
@ Entangling Tentacles: Entangled isn't the right condition for this, given the flavor text. Entangled tends to refer to an external impediment to movement. If you left goopy slime on them, that'd work, but a numbing poison, not so much.
@ Human Shield: What type of action is this? Might want to make it an immediate action.
@ Grasping tentacles: I get that you're making a grapple monster here, but I think it's a bit too much. Consider that you can, as written, full attack, deal a bonus 5 claw attacks and a tentacles attack. Each attack has damage combined with a chance to grab & constrict.
@ Madness: Inoculation against insanity needs to be better defined, as it's pretty broad. This ability is one of those that'll bog down combat if you're not careful (and I fear you've not been careful). You're asking for a lot of will saves (assuming you go from 5th level to 20th, that's 185ish encounters, with most involving an enemy being in close proximity to the Chuul for 1-2 rounds. Let's say there's, on average, 1 enemy in range of the Chuul for 1.5 rounds per combat. That's 278ish will saves, 278 or so rolls on confusion table. Beyond that, you've got what amounts to a save or lose that doesn't require an action of the Chuul's part, so he's taking enemies out of combat without even trying. This is a problem.
@ Throw: Too many words! You get into all these side examples (touch attacks, fire elemental vs. water elemental) that don't necessarily even apply. (I throw a ghoul at someone, they get paralyzed every time?)
"No grapple check must be made if the chuul is grappling a creature that it does not count as grappled by." is awkwardly worded. Plus an overuse of the word 'grappled'.
Arguably too much damage considering how easy it is to set up. I mean, consider:

6th level Chuul against 6th level Warlock. Chuul has 22 Str and large size. Hits with a claw for 2d6+6 damage, gets an improved grapple check (+6 from Str, +4 from size, total of +10), liable to win. Warlock grappled, takes 2d6+6 damage from constrict.

Next turn, Chuul throws victim. Grapple check (+15 bonus), constrict damage (2d6+6), throw Warlock at another enemy, dealing 2d6+6 damage to each.

2 standard actions, and aside from just needing that one successful claw hit (not a horrible chance at happening), you've got a system that deals about 65 damage total, on average (52 to warlock, 13 to alternate victim), with a maximum of 90 total damage. Again, worth stressing, a sixth level foe has somewhere in the neighborhood of 45-50 hp.
@ Paralytic Tentacles: Why the flat 6 round duration? Also, this is just icing on the OmgWtfGrapple cake.
@ Devour Faith: What's this obsession people have with abilities that screw over divine casters? I mean, not complaining, per se, but I think there's three or four monsters on the unfinished list that do this sort of thing.

The loss of prepared spells is a bit much, especially since it's costing the cleric his or her best spells.
{table=head]Category|Score
Originality|Decent. I've been wanting to see a more grapple focused monster. I like the tentacles, which have dynamic with grapple & add an interesting choice there.
Playability| Good here. It looks to have a fairly defined role - get in close and grapple the biggest threat, or just tear **** up, which it does look like it can do. Could maybe use more tactical options in combat.
Power|Power concerns as listed above, namely that it emulates That Damn Crab in the grapple machine. Devour Faith is maybe too powerful considering you can strip enemy divine casters of their best spells.
Elegance|Stuff needs clarification, abilities need tweaking.
Flavor|I like that you have different options for different backgrounds. Goes a long way. The mechanics don't really sell the flavor though, and the flavor text was just a bit dry. Good enough, but not 'wow'.
[/table]

Lix Lorn
2011-02-24, 11:49 AM
...if dragons are the penultimate monsters, I'm curious. Who are the ultimates?

Hyudra
2011-02-24, 11:54 AM
Gods?

My message is to short. Pleased to lengthen it to ten characters.

Lix Lorn
2011-02-24, 12:07 PM
Ooh, okay. (nods)

TheGeckoKing
2011-02-24, 12:39 PM
Seriously, Pandorym can't be fully reviewed because I mis-spelled two words wrong?
..............
Really?
I'm finding it REALLY hard to go back and fix stuff when i'm just getting paragraphs and paragraphs of "You can't spell". Honestly, it's not even very helpful. Just plain annoying.

Hyudra
2011-02-24, 01:03 PM
Seriously, Pandorym can't be fully reviewed because I mis-spelled two words wrong?
..............
Really?
I'm finding it REALLY hard to go back and fix stuff when i'm just getting paragraphs and paragraphs of "You can't spell". Honestly, it's not even very helpful. Just plain annoying.

I understand that you're frustrated, but I get frustrated too. If I read through a monster and note a spelling error, it's 10-20 seconds to copy paste the text, switch to another window to add it to the list of stuff to be fixed, note the correct spelling, and find my place again. This gets old really fast when it takes a fraction of the overall time to just spellcheck your monster (with liberal use of the 'ignore all' and 'add to dictionary' buttons).

So with that in mind, given that I was spending an inordinate amount of time covering spelling errors that are relatively easy to catch by way of spellcheck, a good few pages back I announced that I'd stop any critique after 2 spelling errors (with leniency for words that have alternate meanings and for those with english as a second language) to allow for the person to spellcheck.

I try not to ask anyone to do anything I wouldn't ask of myself twice over. I'm sorry you're annoyed, but in all fairness, I don't think spellcheck is too much to ask, and I did review two of your other monsters.

TheGeckoKing
2011-02-24, 01:22 PM
Yes, but my stupid spellchecker only checks things i'm typing, not things already typed, unless I go through all the stuff i've typed VEEEEEEEERY slowly with the arrow buttons. It's just not viable for me to do it and return back a sane person.
In short, Google Chrome is doing my head in (Not that IE is much better).

Frog Dragon
2011-02-24, 01:27 PM
Try an online spell checker? A quick googling got me this (http://www.spellchecker.net/spellcheck/).

Lix Lorn
2011-02-24, 01:28 PM
Control A, Control C, open word, control V, spellcheck, control A, Control C, back to the Playground, control V?

TheGeckoKing
2011-02-24, 01:30 PM
Control A, Control C, open word, control V, spellcheck, control A, Control C, back to the Playground, control V?

I tried that once, but Hyudra is going to hang, draw and quarter me if it does what it did last time, with regards to the It's-Its rubbish that it keeps failing to pick up.

Hyudra
2011-02-24, 01:38 PM
Drawing & quartering is so tired. It's so much more fun to be creative.

Like a mix of salt and milk on your subject's feet. Tie them down, introduce them to a goat. The goat will lick up the salt and honey, and with its rough tongue, will lick up some foot with it. Then, since goats have insatiable appetites, well, they just keep licking.

As far as spellchecking goes, I use a built in spellchecker for firefox that leaves squiggly red lines under anything the dictionary doesn't recognize. Serves me pretty well.

And if the its -> it's bit throws you off, just stick to his/her.

TheGeckoKing
2011-02-24, 01:43 PM
Drawing & quartering is so tired. It's so much more fun to be creative.

Like a mix of salt and milk on your subject's feet. Tie them down, introduce them to a goat. The goat will lick up the salt and honey, and with its rough tongue, will lick up some foot with it. Then, since goats have insatiable appetites, well, they just keep licking.

As far as spellchecking goes, I use a built in spellchecker for firefox that leaves squiggly red lines under anything the dictionary doesn't recognize. Serves me pretty well.

And if the its -> it's bit throws you off, just stick to his/her.

Firstly, that's going in my "To Get" list. Goats, salt, milk, and rope.
Secondly, all 3 creatures (Vivisector, Pandorym, Aboleth) don't have genders, or have genders so unfathomable they can rip your face off comprehending them. I'll try to use their instead.
Lastly, Firefox sucks. I'm not touching that with a 50ft pole. Baaaaaaad memories.

DiBastet
2011-02-24, 01:51 PM
Well, I type on Word and spellcheck, and I believe it goes very well...

Now please, try no to be so angry at fact you were not reviewed. If you do a little word spell check I promise I'll take a good look and make an in-depth review too. I probably should be reviewing monsters too, anyway.

And Hyudra, I'm glad you took all in good spirit. The internet is a weird medium and people tend to grab each other's virtual throats by any preceived "offense".

Volthawk
2011-02-24, 02:21 PM
Well, I've made changes to the Violet Fungus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/editpost.php?do=updatepost&p=10400122). Not too sure on the balance of the Fungal Variety abilities, though.

DiBastet
2011-02-24, 02:31 PM
Reviewing the Vivisector

Scythe Hands: I like it. Oh, maybe you should put the hearing part on the Body entry…

Vivisection: I’ll tell you why I always found the monster stupid. Because of this ability. “While you are paralyzed the monster removes some of your organs!” “OMG!” “*Rolls* Then he goes. You’re alive” “Oh!…good! What did I lose?” “Ahm…don’t know, but you’re fine without it” “*Other player* Must have been the appendix”. It was always stupid to me, and I always thought it could be a lot better. I know you’re trying to keep to the monster spirit, using exactly the same ability, but why don’t we make it have a little more sense? In my opinion there should be two kinds of vivisection, one you can perform in combat and another that you could do outside.

Maybe you could upgrade vivisection so that at 4th level it something akin to a Death Attack? An assassin gains it two levels later than level 4, but then, it could be the big point of the monster class. Something like you rip the heart or something like that. There’s no need to use the death attack mechanic if you’re afraid. Con damage, maybe?

In any case I believe the vivisection should be gained early and then evolve. Maybe at the level 1 version you just drew the blood of the enemy with each strike, recovering 1 or 1/5 HD in HP with each strike, don’t know a good amount, but it should probably scale with level.

Then maybe you could gain some uses per day of an attack that deal Con damage, representing some tissue being removed, but no organs yet.

Then at the final level you could gain the final version, that could kill, paralyze, deal damage, anything (using it only on creatures already dealt Con damage, maybe? It would be a sort of “marking” class, where you keep attacking the same foe over and over).

Also, state somewhere that a vivisector may vivisect and feed on a dead body, since on the Lore this is the way the creature feeds. The monster must feed like this at least once every 3 days or start to suffer hunger and thirst (as any creature would). The body then becomes unsuitable for raise dead.

As it stands, I can’t help but feel “That monster! It took my spinal cord!” “*blank stares*” “…I….got better…”

Choice Cuts: This, however, is very cool. Unfortunately it comes late. I say it should come at level 1. If you keep vivisection like it is, I say there should be a sentence like “(…)successfully uses its Vivisection ability on a creature, and the creature dies because of it, they may scoop up the organs(…)”. This way you could keep vivisection as it is, but it only removes the organs if it kills the creature. Maybe it could gain this benefit from freshly killed creatures too (say, one hour?). Like it stands it’s a cool addition, but it comes late. Abilities should be gained soon and then improve.

All the rest: Just what the creature already gains, so it’s cool. My problem with it is that I always found the vivisector being more of a “rogue” monster, so I don’t see the reason from running away from the aberration’s medium BAB. If you give it some kind of death attack, then seriously reduce it.


Reviewing the Pandoryn

Never. This thing isn't meant to be played. Sorry, but I really won't review it . Not because it's not good, I just don't buy the monster and wouldn't be able to review it in a right way...

Hyudra
2011-02-24, 02:32 PM
Well, I've made changes to the Violet Fungus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/editpost.php?do=updatepost&p=10400122). Not too sure on the balance of the Fungal Variety abilities, though.

That link seems broken. I get a 'you do not have permission to access this page' screen.

I did find your violet fungus though, and at a glance, it looks a bit better, but poison damage is kind of off the wall. Is it intended to do both 1d4 str and 1d4 con damage for initial damage, and 1d6 Str + 1d6 Con for secondary?

Frog Dragon
2011-02-24, 02:38 PM
No wonder the link doesn't work when you look at it... It seems that he copied the link in the wrong stage of editing.

DiBastet
2011-02-24, 03:08 PM
Why the Aboleth wasn't in the previous?

Review of the Aboleth

As far as I understand this monster should be the brother of the archivist, a master of lore psychic monster.

Based on that…

Hyudra speaks about the skill list. For this monster I believe it should be able to do one of two things: Either it should A) have all skills as class skills, or B) something akin to Bardic Knack, being able to use any skill as if he had maximum cross-class ranks on it or his ranks, the better one. Please keep memory of the ages.

"The Aboleth can use weapons designed for a creature one size smaller without penalty." Should be changed to "The Aboleth can must weapons designed for a creature one size smaller."

Just as Planned should come at 1st level, being the “attack” ability and as hyudra pointed out, being a lame level. I don’t understand, however, what it does. Reflex save and autohypnosis? I don’t get it… Maybe, if it’s the brother of the archivist, why not make it some kind o archivist knowledge?

You could go two ways: Either A) You gain a varying bonus against the creature by succeeding on a Knowledge (that you could substitute by autohypnosis) check with a DC of 15, with bigger bonuses if you exceed by 10, by 20, etc etc. In this case you could only have one kind of bonus (AC, attack, damage, CL???), but could use the ability as move action at will. Some sort of archivist knowledge but only to yourself. or. B) You can implant the desired condition on the creature. It must make a WILL save or suffer the effect (whatever it is). It should be used some times per day as a standard action.

Enslave the Mortals: It’s cool to have, but why not base in on Rebuke Undead in the way that you can only control creatures whose HD is your HD / 2 or your HD?

Downed in Nostalgia: I like this but maybe the wording is a little off. Also, it should be no more powerful than Feeblemind. Maybe you could give exactly the same effect as it, but with the target being able to try to shake it every round. At later HD it could become instantaneous then.

Hyudra said it right: The class is a little boring as it is. You should turn Just as Planned into a 1st level ability and the center of the monster, then the enslaving and feeblemind part would be options.

All in all: There’s much to do here.

TheGeckoKing
2011-02-24, 03:18 PM
Reviewing the Vivisector

Scythe Hands: I like it. Oh, maybe you should put the hearing part on the Body entry…

Done

Vivisection: I’ll tell you why I always found the monster stupid. Because of this ability. “While you are paralyzed the monster removes some of your organs!” “OMG!” “*Rolls* Then he goes. You’re alive” “Oh!…good! What did I lose?” “Ahm…don’t know, but you’re fine without it” “*Other player* Must have been the appendix”. It was always stupid to me, and I always thought it could be a lot better. I know you’re trying to keep to the monster spirit, using exactly the same ability, but why don’t we make it have a little more sense? In my opinion there should be two kinds of vivisection, one you can perform in combat and another that you could do outside.

I...get what your saying. However, I'm not sure I can do anything short of saying "You can only use it on dead corpses". And that's just awful.

Maybe you could upgrade vivisection so that at 4th level it something akin to a Death Attack? An assassin gains it two levels later than level 4, but then, it could be the big point of the monster class. Something like you rip the heart or something like that. There’s no need to use the death attack mechanic if you’re afraid. Con damage, maybe?

Death Attack......I could make that work. First Con Damage, then lots of Con Damage, and then Death. We shall see.

In any case I believe the vivisection should be gained early and then evolve. Maybe at the level 1 version you just drew the blood of the enemy with each strike, recovering 1 or 1/5 HD in HP with each strike, don’t know a good amount, but it should probably scale with level.

Then maybe you could gain some uses per day of an attack that deal Con damage, representing some tissue being removed, but no organs yet.

Then at the final level you could gain the final version, that could kill, paralyze, deal damage, anything (using it only on creatures already dealt Con damage, maybe? It would be a sort of “marking” class, where you keep attacking the same foe over and over).

Eh......i'm not too fond of "marking" classes, but i'll see if I can spice up Vivisection a bit.

Also, state somewhere that a vivisector may vivisect and feed on a dead body, since on the Lore this is the way the creature feeds. The monster must feed like this at least once every 3 days or start to suffer hunger and thirst (as any creature would). The body then becomes unsuitable for raise dead.

I dunno. I can't think of any other classes that have the requirement "Kill someone every three days or start sucking." I'd rather not.

As it stands, I can’t help but feel “That monster! It took my spinal cord!” “*blank stares*” “…I….got better…”

This shall be rectified.

Choice Cuts: This, however, is very cool. Unfortunately it comes late. I say it should come at level 1. If you keep vivisection like it is, I say there should be a sentence like “(…)successfully uses its Vivisection ability on a creature, and the creature dies because of it, they may scoop up the organs(…)”. This way you could keep vivisection as it is, but it only removes the organs if it kills the creature. Maybe it could gain this benefit from freshly killed creatures too (say, one hour?). Like it stands it’s a cool addition, but it comes late. Abilities should be gained soon and then improve.

All the rest: Just what the creature already gains, so it’s cool. My problem with it is that I always found the vivisector being more of a “rogue” monster, so I don’t see the reason from running away from the aberration’s medium BAB. If you give it some kind of death attack, then seriously reduce it.

I kept it full BaB because it didn't really warrant nerfing down, but if I give it the Death Attack, i'll scale it back.

Reviewing the Pandoryn

Never. This thing isn't meant to be played. Sorry, but I really won't review it . Not because it's not good, I just don't buy the monster and wouldn't be able to review it in a right way...

That's a shame. Oh well.

Replies in bold, and thanks for looking over it.


Why the Aboleth wasn't in the previous?

Review of the Aboleth

As far as I understand this monster should be the brother of the archivist, a master of lore psychic monster.

Based on that…

Hyudra speaks about the skill list. For this monster I believe it should be able to do one of two things: Either it should A) have all skills as class skills, or B) something akin to Bardic Knack, being able to use any skill as if he had maximum cross-class ranks on it or his ranks, the better one. Please keep memory of the ages.

I'm not sure I like stepping on the toes of the Factotum. I'll think about it.

"The Aboleth can use weapons designed for a creature one size smaller without penalty." Should be changed to "The Aboleth can must weapons designed for a creature one size smaller."

Will rectify.

Just as Planned should come at 1st level, being the “attack” ability and as hyudra pointed out, being a lame level. I don’t understand, however, what it does. Reflex save and autohypnosis? I don’t get it… Maybe, if it’s the brother of the archivist, why not make it some kind o archivist knowledge?

Swapped it round with Memory of the Eons, and Aboleth levels scale with Archivist levels, because the Aboleth and the Archivist are similar like that.

You could go two ways: Either A) You gain a varying bonus against the creature by succeeding on a Knowledge (that you could substitute by autohypnosis) check with a DC of 15, with bigger bonuses if you exceed by 10, by 20, etc etc. In this case you could only have one kind of bonus (AC, attack, damage, CL???), but could use the ability as move action at will. Some sort of archivist knowledge but only to yourself. or. B) You can implant the desired condition on the creature. It must make a WILL save or suffer the effect (whatever it is). It should be used some times per day as a standard action.

I threw out the Autohypnosis roll entirely. It was too easy to make anyways.

Enslave the Mortals: It’s cool to have, but why not base in on Rebuke Undead in the way that you can only control creatures whose HD is your HD / 2 or your HD?

Will do.

Downed in Nostalgia: I like this but maybe the wording is a little off. Also, it should be no more powerful than Feeblemind. Maybe you could give exactly the same effect as it, but with the target being able to try to shake it every round. At later HD it could become instantaneous then.

Yes. That works too, and saves on words.

Hyudra said it right: The class is a little boring as it is. You should turn Just as Planned into a 1st level ability and the center of the monster, then the enslaving and feeblemind part would be options.

All in all: There’s much to do here.

Again, thanks :p

DiBastet
2011-02-24, 03:42 PM
I dunno. I can't think of any other classes that have the requirement "Kill someone every three days or start sucking." I'd rather not.

It's called eating. Problem for the vivisector that it must eat organs. Probably fresh. It could be a cow's organs, btw. "Er, guys, you see, we've been here for five days... I'm kinda dizzy you know... Could we, you know, hunt a boar SO I CAN FEAST ON ITS ENTRAILS???" "...." "...erh...you can keep the meat" "..." "...and the bacon!"


Unrelated: I always read "Violent Fungus" and think "WTF?"

TheGeckoKing
2011-02-24, 03:48 PM
It's called eating. Problem for the vivisector that it must eat organs. Probably fresh. It could be a cow's organs, btw. "Er, guys, you see, we've been here for five days... I'm kinda dizzy you know... Could we, you know, hunt a boar SO I CAN FEAST ON ITS ENTRAILS???" "...." "...erh...you can keep the meat" "..." "...and the bacon!"

Fine. But it'll need feeding a week at the most, at the most, because it would be unplayable in most campaigns if they had to go slaughter a few peasants every 3 days or so.

DiBastet
2011-02-24, 03:55 PM
I was talking this to my wife while she's baking a cake, and she laughed and asked me to translate from portuguese you this:

"*Laugh* I know he's afraid of needing to eat, but point him to that page on the SRD about starvation, and say this to him: Feasting on pig's entrails isn't different from eating some Italian's Sausage."

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#starvationAndThirst

She's cute on a weird way.

TheGeckoKing
2011-02-24, 03:57 PM
I am going to cast Prismatic Wall and back away. Right. Now. :smalleek:

Gorgondantess
2011-02-24, 05:36 PM
Dragons are really, really tricky. I mean, even WotC kinda screwed up on Dragons, and they're the professionals.
First dictionary definition for professional:
"following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain"
Does NOT mean that they're actually good at it, and really Hyudra I'm disappointed in you for implying such.:smalltongue:


BAB, saves, look ok. Proficiencies, skills, also ok.
Goodie.

Cactus Body - It probably doesn't need that large a disguise bonus to appear as a nonsentient cactus. Not that that's ever going to come up in a typical campaign.
And that's why it shouldn't be a problem. That's just there for flavor, anyways.

Thorns, what if Señor is the one doing the bull rushing, striking, grappling?
That's dealt with in subsequent posts... though I do think I'll deal with that. To an extent.

I'm halfways surprised that Señor doesn't take more from slashing, but my experience with cactuses is limited to one I got as a gift when I was 15 and I somehow killed it with neglect. How do you kill a freakin' cactus?
I've lived in southern california all my life, so I see a good amount of cacti. Cacti built like saguaro have these... bony, I might say, ridges that make actually cutting them quite difficult. However, using something like, say, a spear, would bypass said ridges, and in doing so you go for the soft, tender flesh.

Ok, so I'm reading natural defenses, I really like it, but I find myself wondering: is this what the Saguaro Sentinel wants? I mean, you're tough with DR, natural armor beefed by con bonuses, con bonuses and fat HD... and you're discouraging enemies from attacking you in favor of other allies. What's bound to happen, really, is the penultimate trap of Tanks. You'll be tough enough that enemies will ignore you to the best of their ability, murder your teammates and then gang up on you. Or die and then leave the next random encounter to finish you off while you drag your teammates to the local shrine. Most tanks want a way to provoke enemies to attack them, not discourage it. Not saying it's a bad idea, but it runs contrarywise to your already established role.
I know, but it's too damn flavorful not to use! So, yeah, I added in a deactivation at the end and most people will probably very rarely use it except maybe when trampling. But damn if it isn't flavorful.

1000 needles - don't see myself using it that often, really. Maybe that's intended, but the self-damage is a bit rough. I'd only really use it if I had some form of natural healing (fast healing) or if I could damage/blind three or more enemies in a go.
Yeah... kindof. A little. I donno, it is a swift action.

Improved Grab - "Creatures successfully held by Señor Saguaro take Thorns damage, and any attacks during the grapple also deal thorns damage." - is this in addition to thorns damage stated under thorns?
Hmmm... I meant creatures attempting to grapple the saguaro sentinel, not being grappled by it, under thorns. Not quite sure how to clarify that...

Trample - hard to imagine (most cacti aren't very dense, are they?), but sure.
Saguaro are certainly probably dense. Donno, never lifted one up. The base creature has it, though, and it gives it more options, so whatever.

Pin Missile - Get to 20HD, use pin missile, murder half a small city. Not sure I like just how much that radius scales. At 10HD, even, you're still affecting 20 ~squares~ in every direction.
20 squares. As in 100 feet. That's not half a small city, that's half a small tribe. That's less than 1/50th of a mile.

And as far as the penalty goes... assuming at 10HD that you're dealing 4d6 thorns damage, you're dealing between 4 and 24 damage, 14 average. So a -2.8 penalty on average (I use the decimal to point to how close you are to a -3), with a -4 possible. I can live with that.
You can live with that as in it's a good number or you can live with that as in it's not big enough?

"After using this ability, Señor Saguaro loses is Thorns, Needle Arms, Pin Missile, Sweep (for the purposes of impalement) & Thorny Grasp ability for 1d4 rounds as the Saguaro Sentinel regrows all its thorns." - needs updating to list abilities you've written since, and you've got 'loses is thorns' instead of 'loses his thorns'.
Right, 1,000 needles.

"Alternately, Señor Saguaro may direct the Pin Missile as a standard action from one arm. This requires a ranged attack roll to strike the target, though it only loses thorn based abilities for one arm." -for one arm?
...Hm. I should reword that.

You know, I had a whole shtick planned for the Ettin, based on making it a bumbling, awkward giant, with the two headed bit to mix things up. The falling on people was part of that. But the Ettin was already done. Ah well. Looks like it works.
Yay.:smallbiggrin:

Arm Growth - I had to reread it. RAW, with only the example to bring us back to sanity, you'd get 2 new arms (two additional arms) at 10th, for a total of 5, three additional arms at 15th for a total of 8, etc. I'd reword.
Hmmm... okay.

Sweep - include a "At 9th level..." blurb. There's weird line breaks/paragraphing going on there, formatwise.
Yeah, probably.

"Creatures impaled in this manner are brought along with Señor Saguaro as it moves, and may attack it with a -4 penalty to attack," - the bit at the end is redundant.
"Creatures thrown are considered improvised thrown weapons with a base damage of 1d10 for a medium sized creature and a range of 10'" - a range of 10' or a range increment of 10', just checking.
"The thrown creature takes as much damage as it would deal " - Awkward. Clarify?
Okay, okay, okay.

{table=head]Category|Score
Originality|Pretty solid. Thorns sorta overlaps with the purple worm's own defensive spikes, but seems more defensively oriented. I've wanted to see a solid melee debuffer, just didn't expect it from a cactus.
Playability| I anticipate no playability problems here. Looks good. Don't know, though, that it'd be a monster that I'd be excited to play, if someone offered me a spot at their table and handed me a saguaro sentinel character sheet. The class pretty much begs you to get Goad or some equivalent from somewhere though.
Power| Looks solid. Maybe a bit of a weakness in having all those brawny defenses vs. tank syndrome, but no real issues. 1000 needles may be a little weak.
Elegance|A few abilities need clarification.
Flavor|I think you hit the mark, as far as selling a cactus person. Can't think of anything that's particularly out of place or that could be added.[/table]
[/list]

She likes it! Hyudra likes it!:smallbiggrin:
Well, sortof.

ScionoftheVoid
2011-02-24, 05:41 PM
Gargoyle has been updated, though I may change a few more things soon, so feel free to take your time before next looking over it.

Hyudra
2011-02-24, 05:45 PM
20 squares. As in 100 feet. That's not half a small city, that's half a small tribe. That's less than 1/50th of a mile.

I was thinking like a marketplace or a gathered crowd at a parade, but forgot to actually imply such. It's still a freaking huge radius.


You can live with that as in it's a good number or you can live with that as in it's not big enough?

Yes.

No, in all seriousness; it's a good number. More would be too much.


She likes it! Hyudra likes it!:smallbiggrin:
Well, sortof.

I do like it. I wouldn't play it, but I like it.


Gargoyle has been updated, though I may change a few more things soon, so feel free to take your time before next looking over it.

Believe me, after that batch (12 or so monsters reviewed), taking my time regardless.

Taking a mite of a break from critiques, gonna tidy up Spider and Medusa, then figure out whether I'm going to take a stab at Storm Giant or retire it for a while.

I'm thinking I'll wait til Medusa and Spider are wrapped up before I throw Experiment #2 or Secret Project XRD at you guys. I won't throw the two of them at you one after another - I'll find something relatively mild to stick between them. Maybe Drow.

NineThePuma
2011-02-24, 05:56 PM
Not wasting any time, huh? No, in all seriousness, that may be good. You're not currently working on anything, IIRC, so I don't expect problems there, and your game plan looks solid.

It's not so much "not wasting time" as "most of the complaints look like they're related to grammar and the abilities look alright but need some work."

Plus, it's practice for if I ever decide to home brew a caster.

I can already tell I'm gonna be combining a few domains together (Animal and plant, for example, into a 'Nature' domain).

I will acknowledge that the QuasiGod is going to have issues in that it feels like a PrC. But that's a problem I'm not really sure how to address.

Gorgondantess
2011-02-24, 06:00 PM
I was thinking like a marketplace or a gathered crowd at a parade, but forgot to actually imply such. It's still a freaking huge radius.
Yeah, at 20 HD. It's meant to be as a sortof finisher move, so a large radius is a good thing. A sunburst spell has an 80 foot radius, so it's comparable to a large radius spell.


I do like it. I wouldn't play it, but I like it.
Honestly, I have the same opinion. I like what I did with it, but I'll probably never play it- I mean, it's a friggin' anthropomorphic cactus. Why? Just why?

Hyudra
2011-02-24, 06:10 PM
For the record, Gorgon, if you're feeling brave, the Razor Boar, Gargoyle, Cloaker and Bleakborn are all in pretty good shape and could use a looking-over. IIRC, Bleakborn implemented most/all of the changes you last suggested, so I'd just suggest a final glance over. No need to look over my Medusa or Monstrous Spider as I haven't had the opportunity to make all the changes you suggested last.

dsmiles
2011-02-24, 06:15 PM
Hyudra, you are one busy Playgrounder.

High Five! :smallbiggrin:

I think you guys and gals are doing an awesome job in here. It's too bad my homebrewing skills are limited, or I'd be more than happy to help out. :smallfrown:

Benly
2011-02-24, 06:16 PM
Regarding 1,000 Needles, I really think the caltrops option shouldn't be disregarded. The damage is pretty minor and caltrops are a fairly effective tool for a tank to cut off enemy mobility options - not amazing, but worthwhile for a few HP and a swift action. That said, it would be much more effective if the caltrops could be put in squares adjacent to Amingo's reach, since "within your reach" is where you want to be encouraging enemies to go.

Hyudra
2011-02-24, 06:53 PM
Hyudra, you are one busy Playgrounder.

High Five! :smallbiggrin:

I think you guys and gals are doing an awesome job in here. It's too bad my homebrewing skills are limited, or I'd be more than happy to help out. :smallfrown:

Thanks for noticing.

Even if you're not much of a homebrewer, comments whenever something cool catches your eye is much welcomed. People enjoy having their efforts noticed, and coming from yours truly, it just comes across as "oh man, it must be bad, if Hyudra is trying to soften the blow".

Edit:

Medusa (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10343087&postcount=418) Changes, February 24th, 2010:
Stances are changed. There's no longer a restriction on initiating stances only after initiative rolls have been made. Abilities that would be broken as a consequence (such as the stalking ones, which grant cumulative movement or crit bonuses over time) have a note that they can only be used in combat (paraphrasing).
Stalking Serpent clarified as to what 'one step' means as far as advancing critical threat range and critical damage).
Snake in the Grass reworded to state "when the medusa is spotted, she gains the benefits of concealment for 1 round." (thanks @ Gorgon for the wording)
White Fangs Striking nerfed. It added dex to damage, but that was removed as it stacks with Snake Nest's dex to damage. Used Gorgon's suggested wording of "attacks that deal piercing damage" over "piercing weapons"
Removed ability to bluff enemies as an option in Force Gaze.

Monstrous Spider, I looked over, nothing I feel a desperate need to change (I'd forgotten I'd revised it recently). So Medusa and Monstrous Spider are open to critique. Such critiques would be appreciated, Gorgon, but they're not high on the priority list. The other stuff I'm doing is going to take a little bit of time to hew out and polish, so the people who've been waiting to wrap up their monsters can go well before me in line, if you find your time short.

DiBastet
2011-02-24, 07:35 PM
Even if you're not much of a homebrewer, comments whenever something cool catches your eye is much welcomed. People enjoy having their efforts noticed, and coming from yours truly, it just comes across as "oh man, it must be bad, if Hyudra is trying to soften the blow".

We hate you Hyudra. Mostly. The avatar is kinda cute, but almost all are in these forums. So yeah, we hate you. :smalltongue:

Gorgondantess
2011-02-24, 09:42 PM
Cloaker: Ehhhhhh.... looks okay by my book!

Razor Boar:
Surge of Force: I'd cut down the uses. Maybe just limit it to HD.
Also, a level 1 warrior has more options than a level 1 razor boar. Might be best to make it wait 'till later for surge of force and give it a more active ability at 1st level.
Switching it with the temporary HP option would be cool, as that one's pretty active in a way- less of a no brainer, I mean.
Trample: Eh. 1/2 HD looks better for the DC. Also, generally abilities dependent on size like trample are better after large size is gained. Though I suppose that ability is especially apt on the razor boar. Take it as you will.
Scent: might want to make special note of the extra ability on scent. Generally when you're just restating something found in the SR that a vet might already know they'll just ignore it and thus miss the extra stuff you put on the bottom.
Resilience: Goddamn.:smalleek:
"if the boar is willing. Against natural weapons"
Line break in the middle there would be good for formatting purposes.
Also, if I were, say, a lizardfolk snagged onto the razor boar with my offhand claw, I'd totally just stay there, climb on its back Shadow of the Colossus style, then draw a sword and start stabbifying it. Just sayin'. Note how I handled stuck creatures with my Saguaro Sentinel.
Looking at barrel through, I'd increase base tusk damage. With what you've currently got, you're looking at 2d6 base damage at large size. Either make it 1.5x str damage (totally applicable) or increase the damage to at least 1d8, if not 1d10. Hell, 1d12 or 2d6 would work if you move the hoof attacks to a later level.
Unstoppable: What kind of action is this? What conditions wouldn't allow you to activate this effect? Simple nausea/dazing? Stunning? Paralysis? Fear? Nothing short of mental shutdown? etc.
Mighty force: you could totally swing that at an earlier level if you want trample to be a big schtick.
Otherwise... eh, looks okay.

Gargoyle: I am still annoyed about how I reviewed an older version of this. As such, I'm not reviewing it right now and shall instead review it in a few hours! MWAHAHAHAHAH!:smalltongue:Actually I just don't have time to do so at the moment.

Bleakborn: Looks-a-good!

Hyudra
2011-02-24, 10:03 PM
Cloaker and Bleakborn added to the main list.

Man, that feels good. Bleakborn was our oldest monster as of the council system taking over, so knocking that one off the list is nice.

Crafty Cultist
2011-02-24, 11:50 PM
Cloaker and Bleakborn added to the main list.

Man, that feels good. Bleakborn was our oldest monster as of the council system taking over, so knocking that one off the list is nice.

You said it. On the subject of reviewing old classes, are my half-fiend and half-celestial still up to snuff? I was going to use the smae design to make a half farspawn template

Hyudra
2011-02-25, 12:05 AM
Was talking with Gorgon about some of the templates. Not sure if the discussion was prompted by your question there. In any event, the half fiend and half celestial did come up as things we might be interested in going back to.

Edit: Don't get me wrong. Not saying it's broken or anything. I didn't even look at them as they came up in the conversation, but we did look at the half dragon, which is embarassingly bad, and the idea that we might go to other halfs was a prospect.

I've finished the Drow, but am postponing actually posting her. Only two one levels long, hard to fit all the flavor of a dozen novels and nearly a half dozen sourcebooks (across editions) into just one level. I think I like what I came up with, but it's damned hard to make a one-level critter that comes across as tempting without being a foregone conclusion as far as dipping goes, so I look forward to the discussion/feedback that follows. I'll wait until Monstrous Spider and Medusa pass muster before releasing the class. I might release Experimental Critter #2 and Drow in quick succession, depending on how things go.

Gorgondantess
2011-02-25, 12:38 AM
Was talking with Gorgon about some of the templates. Not sure if the discussion was prompted by your question there. In any event, the half fiend and half celestial did come up as things we might be interested in going back to.
Nope, just one of those crazy random happenstances.
Also, cultist: if you want to do half fiend/celestial, you definitely have my blessing. Half farspawn... I donno... I like that one.:smalltongue:

I've finished the Drow, but am postponing actually posting her. Only two one levels long, hard to fit all the flavor of a dozen novels and nearly a half dozen sourcebooks (across editions) into just one level. I think I like what I came up with, but it's damned hard to make a one-level critter that comes across as tempting without being a foregone conclusion as far as dipping goes, so I look forward to the discussion/feedback that follows. I'll wait until Monstrous Spider and Medusa pass muster before releasing the class. I might do Experimental Critter #2 and Drow in quick succession, depending on how things go.

Eh, go ahead and post it. I'm getting to the medusa & arachnid soon enough.

Hyudra
2011-02-25, 12:47 AM
Eh, go ahead and post it. I'm getting to the medusa & arachnid soon enough.

Nah. Going to reserve it, so I can stick it between the Experimental Critter #2 and the XRD, since the two are a little much, taken together, and having something a little milder between them will spare everyone some sanity.

DiBastet
2011-02-25, 06:52 AM
Updated the ragewalker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10374313&postcount=495). Besides minor typos or bad formating (I think i forgot something but can't remember...), it should be in the final version now.

Hyudra
2011-02-25, 11:36 AM
Goblins
http://i56.tinypic.com/2zhi0w8.jpg
Monster Class
Monster Manual, SRD

Class
HD: D6

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will |Special
1st|+0|+0|+2|+0| Goblin Body, Mob, Attribute Adjustment
[/table]
Skill Points 6+Int per level
Class Skills: Appraise, Climb, Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Ride, Search, Spot.

Proficiencies: The Goblins are proficient with all simple weapons except crossbows. They are proficient in light armor and shields.

Goblin Body: The Goblins lose all other racial bonuses and gain goblinoid traits, granting it Darkvision out to 60'. Goblins are initially small sized creatures with a base movement speed of 30'. They have a racial bonus on Move Silently equal to half their HD.

Goblins speak Goblin and heavily accented Common, with additional languages for high intelligence scores as normal.

Attribute Adjustment: Goblins have +2 Dexterity and their choice of either -2 Strength or -1 Strength and -2 Charisma.

Mob: A player who takes a level in the Goblins monster class does not control one goblin, but three. Much as a swarm, the Goblins are considered a single entity in most cases - they make a single saving throw against spells, traps and other effects, and the whole group suffers the consequences should they fail the save. They have a single pool of hitpoints (though they suffer casualties, after a fashion, as their hitpoints descend to a certain point, see below) and they both wear and benefit from equipment as a collective whole. As they gain class levels or use class features (such as spells, attacks or maneuvers) it is assumed that the trio is cooperating in the task or that two members of the trio are cheering on the third. As such, they can be considered a single individual except where noted below:

Hitpoints, Unconsciousness and Death:The goblins have individual hitpoints, equal to their hit point total divided by three (any remainder is distributed evenly, favoring the final goblin where possible). While any hitpoint damage dealt to the group is deducted from their collective pool, should the group take a total amount of damage sufficient to take one goblin out of combat, that goblin collapses, unconscious and the group shrinks by one member (See Left Behind, below, for the mechanical effect of this). A fallen goblin does not die or start dying until all three goblins have fallen, and they cannot be coup de graced or otherwise finished off until the entire group is helpless. Surviving goblins can revive an unconscious goblin and pull them to their feet as a full round action that raises that goblin to 1 hp.

ie. The player Jonas controls 1st level Goblins, dubbed Shankbelly, No-Ears and Biter. At first level, with 8 hitpoints, he assigns 2 hitpoints to Shankbelly and 3 to both No-ears and Biter. He records their maximum hitpoints as 2/3/3 (8) on the character sheet. He could also record it as 8/6/3 (8) to better recognize when the goblin's collective hitpoints have fallen enough for one to become unconscious.

In combat against a vicious housecat, the group takes 4 hitpoints of damage. Jonas records the damage and notes that Shankbelly falls in battle, with No-Ears having taken 2 points of damage. They attack the cat to avenge their comrade's death, but miss the damned beast. As the cat attacks once more, they take 2 points of damage in the following round. No-Ears collapses, and only Biter remains with 2 hitpoints left. He scores a lucky hit, and twists the blade to finish off the terrible feline, then sets to reviving his comrades.
Spacing: The Goblins take up three adjacent spaces (such as a 5'x15' area). They can change their formation as part of a movement by subtracting 10' from their movement allowance. Each goblin must stay within 5' of another fellow goblin at all times (diagonals do not count), unless they are using the 'Left Behind' option described below. Goblins can make attacks of opportunity using any and all of the spaces they occupy, but attacks of opportunity do count against their maximum, regardless of which goblin made it.

For the purposes of goblins growing to a larger size category, the effective spacing is essentially three instances of whatever size category they are. As such, goblins of large size with a space of 10x10' would take up 30'x10' in space, with each goblin taking up a 10'x10' space.

Basic Needs: Goblins can clothe or equip themselves with the clothing necessary for a single individual... they're not modest. They share any carried equipment between them and need 8 hours of rest as normal. Goblins do eat as much as three individuals, however.

Charges: The goblins charge in whatever formation they were in as they announced the charge, stopping when one or more goblins is in reach. If they change formation during the charge, they lose 20' of charge distance.

Attacks: The Goblins can make a standard action attack as normal, using any one of the goblin's weapons, but when full attacking, they can attack as a disorganized group. In doing so, each may make an attack with their equipped weapon (with standard penalties for firing ranged weapons into melee, etc) at a -4 penalty. When the goblins have +6 BAB, this penalty decreases to -2. The penalty is removed when the goblins have +12 BAB. Goblins do not gain iterative attacks in the usual fashion, but for every +6 BAB after +12 BAB, one of the goblins may make an additional attack at a -5 penalty.

Should goblins get an additional attack from another source (such as a natural attack), they simply add one appropriate attack to their mob attack (their full attack equivalent).

Weapons and Shields: The Goblins may each wield a single one-handed weapon or a ranged weapon.

Each shield worn by the group (to a maximum of three) offers only half benefit (to a maximum of 1.5 times the benefit), with the group suffering the full penalty for each shield worn (so wearing three light steel shields would impose a -3 armor check penalty and a -15% arcane spell failure chance). A goblin must wield a light weapon alongside a shield.

Equipment/Magic Items: Equipment/Magic items are divided among the goblins. They still have the same total number of equipment slots, and the ambient benefits of any magic items stretch to encompass the group. However, there is one exception to this in that each member of the group may wield either a magic weapon or a magic shield.

Companions, Familiars, Mounts: The goblins share a single companion or familiar if they take levels in a class that would grant such to them. In the event of mounts, the Goblins gain a medium size mount that they can all ride at once.

Spells and Special Abilities: Goblins that gain special abilities, trigger activation magic items, breath weapons or special attacks from spells simply use the ability as though one individual had them, originating from any goblin-occupied square. Consider them to be acting in concert or that one goblin is performing the action (such as breathing fire) while the others cheer them on or dance in glee at the devastation wrought.

Gang Up: The Goblins that get involved in a grapple with a foe may reroll grapple checks a number of times equal to the number of members in the group (up to three times), taking the higher result. Each time they win a grapple check, as they climb on, bite, poke and pull on their hapless victim, both they and their opponent stumble 5' in the direction of their choice. In the event of a grapple, all three goblins move into the enemy's space (and are considered to occupy a 5' space for the interim).

Left Behind: The Goblins may leave a member of the group behind as part of a move action. The main group moves and operates as normal, but reduces its base total of hitpoints, number of available attacks and overall space appropriately (these stats/spacing, etc. are taken on by the goblin left behind). Goblins left behind (be it intentionally or as a consequence of being knocked unconscious and then revived while the rest of the group is elsewhere) may (taking their turn after the main group has) make attacks of opportunity, keep watch, perform any free actions the group could or move the shortest, easiest available route back to the main group. Alternately, a goblin may be left behind to revive a fallen goblin in the manner described under Hitpoints, above.

Should the group be entirely split up (with two of the three members left behind), one goblin may shout at another goblin in earshot as a swift action, effectively changing which goblin is performing the actions and which two are left behind. This does not change the group's allowance of movement, standard and swift actions. For example, one goblin might use a move action, use a swift action to call out to a buddy, and then that buddy could use a standard action.

Goblins left behind are not subjected to spells (positive or not) that affect the main group, and vice versa. They make their own saving throws and retain any beneficial or deleterious effects. Should they rejoin the main group, all effects are shared across members.

Comments
A foreword, here: The Goblins, which I've referred to in both discussions and in the thread as Experimental Critter #2, are my second shot at doing something out-of-the-box as far as design goes. The Lemure was the first, with a 'suck now, be awesome later' setup that was deemed problematic and scrapped. In any event, the focus on these 'experimental critters' is to try and find a way to make the most lamesauce, low-power monsters appealing as classes without breaking their integral flavor. The thought process here is essentially "CR 1/3? That means 3 goblins = CR1!" Mechanically, it may not work perfectly, I admit, but just try to tell me that roleplaying three goblins at once wouldn't be barrels of fun.

The benefit of this approach, semi-inspired by both swarms & some tabletop wargames, is that it really does mix up some of the tactical options one gets. You're both small size and you're covering a fairly large space on the table. You're covering a lot of ground as far as being able to make attacks of opportunity, and you've got the ability (though they're so shoddy at first it's barely worth it) to make three attacks at an early level. I'm pretty sure you could do something pretty effective combat-wise with the 'fighting underfoot' feats and the like, as well.

The drawback is that there's so many areas that the mechanical side of this could fall apart or where issues/confusion could arise that it's not feasible for me to sit down and try to cover all the bases. It's my hope that with the 'treat as a single individual when in doubt' policy, most of these can be solved in an expedient manner. I hope that others viewing the class could chime in as well with both issues and solutions.

Should you want to play a lone goblin, you can just take the race. If you want a fistful of flavor and something really different, you take a level in the Goblins monster class.

Changelog
Changes, February 25:
Added basic needs, charges, animals/familiars/mounts sections under 'mob'. Clarified rules elsewhere, including size effects to answer questions raised in discussion in the thread (Thanks, Flabort!).

TheGeckoKing
2011-02-25, 11:45 AM
Well, it's certainly.......original. I'm not sure how playable it is, but it seems like it could work. One question;
How would you adjudicate if someone wanted to specifically target one goblin?

Hyudra
2011-02-25, 11:48 AM
Well, it's certainly.......original. I'm not sure how playable it is, but it seems like it could work. One question;
How would you adjudicate if someone wanted to specifically target one goblin?

You wouldn't. As with a swarm, they're hopping, jostling one another, moving from side to side and generally chaotic enough that you can't reasonably expect to hit one. In any event, the effect would be the same as hitting the group. You'd just detract from their hitpoint total, etc.

TheGeckoKing
2011-02-25, 11:52 AM
You'd better put that in, then, I guess. I haven't really got much else to say, other than it's certainly something I've never seen before.

NineThePuma
2011-02-25, 11:55 AM
... <<
>>

I want a similar Kobold creature =V

TheGeckoKing
2011-02-25, 11:56 AM
The Pun-Pun Triad Quartet? Ew, I think that's best left avoided.

NineThePuma
2011-02-25, 12:08 PM
Nah, Pun-Pun relies on DM fiat and has some LA.

Kobolds have Slight Build, and I think there's a feat that lets them share space...

Hyudra
2011-02-25, 12:28 PM
Indeed. If the reception was positive and any issues could be hammered out, I think that particular concept could be extended to others, provided each retained some tricks or behaviors that fit their individual race/species.

There's even a decent pic for that:
http://i54.tinypic.com/2hy8ksp.jpg

flabort
2011-02-25, 12:34 PM
Wow. I want to play one.... the goblins, that is.
Presenting three times the target may be VERY bad for area spells, such as fireballs, and divination magic could be quite screwy.
Also, what happens when they gain/lose size categories?
If, for example, I want to take a class that increases the size category to medium, I'd not imagine too much change. But if it then gives a second increase, to large, what happens? What If a class shrinks me down to tiny?
Can multiple mobs (Aka two characters with this) interact?
Could this be extended to further levels to get more goblins in the mob (6 goblins = CR 6/3= CR 2)?
This class would be almost too great for Battlefield control wizards, AoO abusers, and a couple others.
What happens to roleplaying when the character also has the flaw giving them multiple personalities :smalleek:? Speaking of which, what happens with flaws like, say, blind? Are all three goblins blind?

Class is great, just has a couple minor problems like that. Just needs a tiny toning down, and a few clarifications, in my opinion.

Lol, now I'm thinking of what would happen if I shrunk these guys to diminutive, made them Blind, and gave them wererat and bard levels.
Three blind mice! Three blind mice! See how they run! See... you get the picture.

Hyudra
2011-02-25, 12:42 PM
Wow. I want to play one.... the goblins, that is.
Presenting three times the target may be VERY bad for area spells, such as fireballs, and divination magic could be quite screwy.
Also, what happens when they gain/lose size categories?
If, for example, I want to take a class that increases the size category to medium, I'd not imagine too much change. But if it then gives a second increase, to large, what happens? What If a class shrinks me down to tiny?
Can multiple mobs (Aka two characters with this) interact?
Could this be extended to further levels to get more goblins in the mob (6 goblins = CR 6/3= CR 2)?
This class would be almost too great for Battlefield control wizards, AoO abusers, and a couple others.
What happens to roleplaying when the character also has the flaw giving them multiple personalities :smalleek:? Speaking of which, what happens with flaws like, say, blind? Are all three goblins blind?

Class is great, just has a couple minor problems like that. Just needs a tiny toning down, and a few clarifications, in my opinion.

I get the picture, believe me. I anticipated that problems along those lines would come up, but like I said in the comments, there's so many bases to cover I couldn't do it alone, so I was hoping for collaborative input on stuff like that. Thanks for starting to help hammer down the issues.

Regardless of the issues, though, I really do think it would be scads of fun to play in a party.

flabort
2011-02-25, 01:02 PM
No arguments there.
While they may end up as comic relief, they will be so much fun to play :smallbiggrin:. I really want to play one (once the issues are fixed).

edit: also, some other issues that occured.
Special mount/familiar/animal companion. Do the goblins get 1 each or share one (I'd imagine share, but that brings up extra issues with paladin)
You've gone into length about actions/round already, but what about charge actions? I'd assume from Spacing they'd move in unison, but clarification would be helpful.
You clarified much of full attacks already, but what about if they have additional natural attacks? Is only one goblin able to use any given natural attack at a time? What if they gain a breath weapon (such as from half-dragon)?
Cure <X> wounds, plus helpless goblins. If it doesn't bring the total up enough to un-helpless him, but it was cast on a helpless goblin, does the group gain hp, but the goblin remain helpless?
Food. Do they have to eat 3x as much? It's unstated.
"I turn around" wouldn't apply to the whole group, I take it. But, if using the Facing rule, how does that work with the group of goblins?

Kobold-Bard
2011-02-25, 01:12 PM
It's difficult to say how much I love the Goblins idea. I too request Kobolds.

Hyudra
2011-02-25, 01:33 PM
It's difficult to say how much I love the Goblins idea.

Having trouble interpreting that. Is that to say you really do love it, or you're of mixed feelings?


Presenting three times the target may be VERY bad for area spells, such as fireballs, and divination magic could be quite screwy.

When in doubt, just treat them as an individual, or focus on the leader of the group.


Also, what happens when they gain/lose size categories?
If, for example, I want to take a class that increases the size category to medium, I'd not imagine too much change. But if it then gives a second increase, to large, what happens? What If a class shrinks me down to tiny?

That, I'd need to add some text to explain, probably under the 'space' section. I imagine you'd end up with pretty huge area coverage.


Can multiple mobs (Aka two characters with this) interact?

I'd say no.


Could this be extended to further levels to get more goblins in the mob (6 goblins = CR 6/3= CR 2)?

Possible to extend the size of the group, maybe as a homebrew prestige class, but not in the fashion you describe.


This class would be almost too great for Battlefield control wizards, AoO abusers, and a couple others.

Battlefield control wizards, don't see how, really, and that's tempered by the one level of getting no spell advancement. AoO abusers, I can see.


What happens to roleplaying when the character also has the flaw giving them multiple personalities ? Speaking of which, what happens with flaws like, say, blind? Are all three goblins blind?

I imagine they'd all get the flaw in such a case. DMs, for the sake of sanity, probably wouldn't allow the former (since, for all intents and purposes, you've already got it) and would shy away from the latter.


Special mount/familiar/animal companion. Do the goblins get 1 each or share one (I'd imagine share, but that brings up extra issues with paladin)

What extra issues with paladin?

In any event, yeah, you'd probably share.


You've gone into length about actions/round already, but what about charge actions? I'd assume from Spacing they'd move in unison, but clarification would be helpful.

I'll clarify. Yes, you'd move in unison.


You clarified much of full attacks already, but what about if they have additional natural attacks? Is only one goblin able to use any given natural attack at a time?

Only one goblin would be able to use a given natural attack at a time.


What if they gain a breath weapon (such as from half-dragon)?

Then only one would be able to use it at a time.


Cure <X> wounds, plus helpless goblins. If it doesn't bring the total up enough to un-helpless him, but it was cast on a helpless goblin, does the group gain hp, but the goblin remain helpless?

Maybe. I might just put in text that has the helpless goblin be revived as the other goblin(s) jostled it to consciousness.


Food. Do they have to eat 3x as much? It's unstated.

I might just say yes.


"I turn around" wouldn't apply to the whole group, I take it. But, if using the Facing rule, how does that work with the group of goblins?

I've never used facing rules, so I'm not sure whether I'd venture to make a ruling. I'd have to look it up anyways.

All good questions.

DiBastet
2011-02-25, 01:34 PM
I can't begin to imagine the problems with this...

So, I'll add them in the next game session in the place of the shifter bandits the group would face. If players ask I'll tell it's some kind of "goblin paragon class". I'll give them some levels and see how people react and what arises.

It won't be much, but it will be better than nothing.

Edit: This reminds me of Overlord.

Kobold-Bard
2011-02-25, 01:44 PM
Having trouble interpreting that. Is that to say you really do love it, or you're of mixed feelings?

...

I do indeed love the idea :smallsmile: (Now for a PrC that adds another Goblin each level...)

Hyudra
2011-02-25, 01:47 PM
Actual game feedback is always appreciated and interesting to have.

As far as inspirations go, I think I drew a lot from Warhammer, Magicka, D&D flavor and yeah, maybe I subconsciously drew from Overlord too.

Well, it's certainly provoked a good few posts in a short span of time. Glad you like it, Kobold-Bard.

Gorgondantess
2011-02-25, 01:53 PM
So. Goblins.
...First of all, I honestly think that this would be better off in the homebrew thread under something like "gremlins". Just sayin'. I mean, it's less of a "goblin monster class" and more of, well, "experimental critter #2".
Second of all... looks mechanically sound, for the most part, but it's definitely abusable. I honestly can't think of anything, but creative abuse really isn't my forte, so I'll just say it's abusable. Looks cool, though.

Hazzardevil
2011-02-25, 02:00 PM
After reading Death Knight and another undead class I have a question, it says that if you get affected by raise dead do you lose all your death knight levels?

Gorgondantess
2011-02-25, 02:02 PM
After reading Death Knight and another undead class I have a question, it says that if you get affected by raise dead do you lose all your death knight levels?


A creature who has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can’t be raised by this spell
It's an undead creature, so no, it wouldn't.

Hazzardevil
2011-02-25, 02:13 PM
Not affected by Raise Dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and True Resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.

but thats what it says there in death knight. Is this an error or something? Since DeathKnight is turns somethign into an udead.

flabort
2011-02-25, 02:13 PM
Battlefield control wizards, don't see how, really, and that's tempered by the one level of getting no spell advancement. AoO abusers, I can see.

Alright, you may be right about BCWs, but I thought that, well, they'd have an easier time dealing with their own effects, and being able to cast them from three places (although not at once) would be neato.

Also, speaking of those effects, dealing with moving as a group and terrain that slows movement. That's another minor issue.


What extra issues with paladin?

In any event, yeah, you'd probably share.

Can all three ride the same mount at one time?
"My horsy!"
"No, you rode it last time. It's mine!"

Kobold-Bard
2011-02-25, 02:15 PM
...

Can all three ride the same mount at one time?
"My horsy!"
"No, you rode it last time. It's mine!"

One in a saddle, one on it's head, one clinging comically to it's tail as it rides along.

Gorgondantess
2011-02-25, 02:17 PM
One in a saddle, one on it's head, one clinging comically to it's tail as it rides along.

OBVIOUSLY.

Not affected by Raise Dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and True Resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.

but thats what it says there in death knight. Is this an error or something? Since DeathKnight is turns somethign into an udead.


Undying Body:Unlike other monster classes, the Death knight doesn't lose his racial ability modifiers, but he does gain undead traits:
The Death Knight is exactly the same as any other undead creature on this site.

Hyudra
2011-02-25, 02:25 PM
So. Goblins.
...First of all, I honestly think that this would be better off in the homebrew thread under something like "gremlins". Just sayin'. I mean, it's less of a "goblin monster class" and more of, well, "experimental critter #2".

Killjoy.

I dunno. I think it's fitting enough as a 'goblin monster class'. I think we can afford to be pretty flexible here, anyways, because it's a CR 1/3 monster anyways, and there's a valid, no-LA race one can take up if they find it problematic.


Second of all... looks mechanically sound, for the most part, but it's definitely abusable. I honestly can't think of anything, but creative abuse really isn't my forte, so I'll just say it's abusable. Looks cool, though.

Well, it probably is abusable somehow, but I think we can get the worst of the kinks worked out.

If there's a strong voice of agreement on the fact that the Goblins don't fit here & should go in the homebrew project, I'll concede the point, but I'll leave it where it is for now.

Crafty Cultist
2011-02-25, 02:27 PM
I'm considering updating half fiend and celestial so that you gain an ability of your choice at certain levels, just like hyudra did for the monstrous spider, probably with a level prerequisite so that powerful abilities can't be chosen early on. Thoughts?

Gorgondantess
2011-02-25, 02:29 PM
because it's a CR 1/3 monster anyways, and there's a valid, no-LA race one can take up if they find it problematic.


And that's why it belongs in the homebrew forums.
First of all, you have 3 times as many levels as the monster's CR, which is just a no-no.:smalltongue:
Second of all, there's a perfectly good goblin race. No LA, no nothing. What's the goal of this project? To allow people to play races that would be abysmal otherwise due to high LA/RHD. You're giving a race a level here that it wouldn't have otherwise.
I'm not saying it's a bad class- I'm just saying it's out of the scope of this project.


I'm considering updating half fiend and celestial so that you gain an ability of your choice at certain levels, just like hyudra did for the monstrous spider, probably with a level prerequisite so that powerful abilities can't be chosen early on. Thoughts?
Problem with this is you'd have people waiting until later on to take the half-celesital/fiend in order to get the more powerful abilities. Generally not a good idea- just have them scale by HD.

Hyudra
2011-02-25, 02:33 PM
And that's why it belongs in the homebrew forums.
First of all, you have 3 times as many levels as the monster's CR, which is just a no-no.:smalltongue:

Nah, same number, just rounding up because rounding down isn't an option. ;)


Problem with this is you'd have people waiting until later on to take the half-celesital/fiend in order to get the more powerful abilities. Generally not a good idea- just have them scale by HD.

Pretty much this. The only abilities that should be so powerful as to be problematic at a certain level are the core, unavoidable abilities that tend to break the game at low levels (like flight or burrowing at levels 1-3).

flabort
2011-02-25, 02:44 PM
I'm of the opinion that the class should stay here, agreeing with hyudra, but I can see where Gorgon's coming from on the issue.

Also, I found another issue with this:
While they must stay within 5 feet, that may potentially still allow them to be at diagonals, since the first diagonal counts as 5, then the next counts as 10, when moving. :smallconfused:
It may actually be a "feature" instead of a "problem" :smalltongue:, but set them in a "V" shape, so that a creature can stand surrounded by them on three adjacent sides, and then give them rogue levels. They can flank, without any help from other sources.:smallamused:

Hazzardevil
2011-02-25, 03:45 PM
Not affected by Raise Dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and True Resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.

but thats what it says there in death knight. Is this an error or something? Since DeathKnight is turns something into an undead.

Hyudra
2011-02-25, 04:07 PM
Goblins Changes, February 25:
Added basic needs, charges, animals/familiars/mounts sections under 'mob'. Clarified rules elsewhere, including size effects to answer questions raised in discussion in the thread (Thanks, Flabort!).

I didn't answer regarding facing, as it's a variant rule I've never seen in use. Comments welcome there, as to whether clarification is needed and what said clarification should be.

DiBastet
2011-02-25, 05:16 PM
At this rate the goblin will be razed from this thread before I have chance to test it Sunday. My game is Sunday, so please. Don't. Raze. The. Goblins. Before.

Also, I know people have problems with time and their own creation, and I don't want to rush things, but I intend to make some more monsters and I'm just waiting to people to finish reviewing the Ragewalker before I get to make some more fey and Eladrin. So, you know, could any of the two of you, you know, actually look at it?

I'm starting to think it's too much job for two people. You should elect a third. You already slash each other's throats being two, it will be a bloodbath with three, but at least it will take a little less time (college starts again monday and I won't have nearly as much time as now to make more monsters...).

Gorgondantess
2011-02-25, 05:34 PM
I'm starting to think it's too much job for two people. You should elect a third. You already slash each other's throats being two, it will be a bloodbath with three, but at least it will take a little less time (college starts again monday and I won't have nearly as much time as now to make more monsters...).

Slash at each other's throats? Hardly. Actually, I'd like to think that Hyudra and I are on quite good terms with each other. In fact, one might even say we're friends. We disagree over certain things in this thread... but it's not like it's anything personal. We just each have our own opinions. We usually agree on most things anyways.
'Course, still wouldn't mind a third... but who would you suggest? Most people here either don't have the experience, talent or inclination to take on a more serious, authoritative critiquing role.
'Sides, things ran smoothly enough for a good amount of time while it was just me running the thread. With Hyudra as well, I think we're doing OK.

Lix Lorn
2011-02-25, 05:37 PM
I'd volunteer, but I'm lazy and don't have a great sense for balance. :smallyuk:

dsmiles
2011-02-25, 05:41 PM
I'm pretty good at balance, but with work, my ability to keep up would be compromised. I can help out a little, but I work 6AM to 6PM-ish. :smallsigh:

Kobold-Bard
2011-02-25, 05:41 PM
Re Council Members: <cough>Kyuubi<cough>

Gorgondantess
2011-02-25, 05:42 PM
I'd volunteer, but I'm lazy and don't have a great sense for balance. :smallyuk:

Most people here either don't have the experience, talent or inclination


I'm pretty good at balance, but with work, my ability to keep up would be compromised. I can help out a little, but I work 6AM to 6PM-ish. :smallsigh:

Most people here either don't have the experience, talent or inclinationtime
My point exactly.:smalltongue:

Mystic Muse
2011-02-25, 05:47 PM
Re Council Members: <cough>Kyuubi<cough>

I certainly have the inclination and time. If Hyudra and Gorgondantess approve me, I'd be more than willing to do it.

Hyudra
2011-02-25, 05:56 PM
My point exactly.:smalltongue:

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up.

And all things considered, Gorgon and I do get along fairly well. Some miscommunications, some aggravation I'm sure, when I go off on a tangent during an IM conversation. We don't agree on everything, but I think that's better for the project overall. He can tell me my storm giant is flawed. I can tell him his pseudonatural creature is off base, flavorwise.

As far as adding council members goes, I'd be down if Kyuubi wanted to join. Been around for a good while, active in the homebrew subsection, and has the grit to have a good number of monsters pass muster in our system, old and new.

flabort
2011-02-25, 05:59 PM
when I go off on a tangent during an IM conversation.

You should see the tangets I go off on any conversation. Few people can keep up :smallbiggrin:.
And yet, I still fall behind if no tangets are taken :smallconfused::smallyuk:.

DiBastet
2011-02-25, 06:08 PM
I wouldn't suggest anyone. But that's because I have a personal code that if I'm going to point at the needs of a system I'll point and give suggestions, but never how to implement them. That's doubly true to pointing out people to jobs. I say "you need someone else" or "you need to change this or that chief of section" and then "you know better than I do who you should use".

Moar people, moar work!

Lizard Lord
2011-02-25, 06:11 PM
I would like to request that the Hooded Pupil (from Libris Mortis) be made into a class. A prestige class since it is a template. I"d do it myself, but I don't think I have the talent for it.

Hyudra
2011-02-25, 06:13 PM
Maybe rant would be more accurate than tangent.

Anyways, I'm more or less taking the weekend off from work, so let's see... next four people who post and ask for a critique (DiBastet doesn't need to ask - I did say I'd get to it when he finished the attribute bonuses) get one from me.

Hoping to whittle down that unfinished list further. We're down to 22 monsters, and I get the feeling gargoyle, medusa and monstrous spider are an arm's length from done, and the ball's in Gorgondantess's court there. I'll do the 5 critiques, and we'll take a step forward there too. I'll leave it to council member Kyuubi to go through the unfinished classes in her own time.

Edit: @ Lizard Lord. I'll tell you what I told others who've made requests as of late. You're welcome to request, even encouraged to do so, but people tend to have their own ideas for monsters that they want to do. Your best bet, if the monster doesn't have too many levels, is to do it yourself. Beyond that, while I wish you luck as to seeing your request fulfilled, I wouldn't hold my breath.

DiBastet
2011-02-25, 06:28 PM
council member Kyuubi

Gods, if my suggestions gave fruits so fast at my job I would be a happy man! But then, the fast resolution to an improvement propposal makes me feel like I'm working at home outside my job.

Blergh, time to leave the job behind.

Welcome, council member Darth Kyuubi. May the dark side guide you.

NineThePuma
2011-02-25, 06:34 PM
Does anyone have any requests for QuasiGod portfolios?

I'd prefer to avoid Racial Portfolios, and broad alignment based ones.

Mystic Muse
2011-02-25, 06:36 PM
Welcome, council member Darth Kyuubi. May the dark side guide you.

All shall bow before me and despair!

As a side note, Darth Kyuubi looks an awful lot like nightmare from soul calibur 3.:smalltongue:

If you need a critique, feel free to IM me, or PM me if you want to get to me quicker than posting in this thread.

Hyudra
2011-02-25, 06:37 PM
Does anyone have any requests for QuasiGod portfolios?

I'd prefer to avoid Racial Portfolios, and broad alignment based ones.

I was working on a homebrew class, not related to this thread, for the Cultist. Sort of a warlock approach to divine casting. I've been cannibalizing ideas from it/its domains enough that I don't know I'll ever get around to finishing it, but domains I was particularly interested in seeing done included Trickery and Death. The former for Vecna (because the cult of vecna is awesome), the latter for Nerull and the like.

So yeah, Trickery/Deception and Death.

DiBastet
2011-02-25, 06:43 PM
I would like to request that the Hooded Pupil (from Libris Mortis) be made into a class. A prestige class since it is a template. I"d do it myself, but I don't think I have the talent for it.

Do you need it for a game or char, or just for the hell of it? If you need I don't believe our Triunvirate would mind me doing a CR+1 prestige class.


Does anyone have any requests for QuasiGod portfolios?

I'd prefer to avoid Racial Portfolios, and broad alignment based ones.

Actually I would love the whole lot of portfolios that I use in my games. In my campaign every god has 4 portfolio, the two of the aligment (or less if it has a neutral aligment) and two more (3 if it's something-neutral and 4 if it's true neutral) that are exclusive to it, like charm, ocean, undeath, sun, etc. I would love the whole lot.

TheGeckoKing
2011-02-25, 06:44 PM
I would like to request that the Hooded Pupil (from Libris Mortis) be made into a class. A prestige class since it is a template. I"d do it myself, but I don't think I have the talent for it.

I'd wager that since it's a +1 CR template (And thus a 1 level class), you could have a go yourself, and you'd do fine. I'm sure people will help out as best as they could if you make a pig's ear of it anyway.
Well, watch Darth Kyuubi :smalltongue:

NineThePuma
2011-02-25, 06:47 PM
I'd like to specify.

Not Domains, I requested Portfolios. Consider that a Portfolio will hopefully be able to cover three or four Domains (the exact number is still in the air).

Lizard Lord
2011-02-25, 06:53 PM
Do you need it for a game or char, or just for the hell of it? If you need I don't believe our Triunvirate would mind me doing a CR+1 prestige class.


I don't need it right now, but it is something I would like to able to use in the future. Anyways, I figure I can give it my best shot myself. If it becomes acceptable I might give necromental a try.

DiBastet
2011-02-25, 07:09 PM
I'd like to specify.

Not Domains, I requested Portfolios. Consider that a Portfolio will hopefully be able to cover three or four Domains (the exact number is still in the air).

well, how much "I requested" we have here? I have 24 gods...


I don't need it right now, but it is something I would like to able to use in the future. Anyways, I figure I can give it my best shot myself. If it becomes acceptable I might give necromental a try.

Go for it! We're here to help!

Lizard Lord
2011-02-25, 08:00 PM
Hooded Pupil
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ex_hooded_pupil_ettin.jpg
Monster Prestige Class
Libris Mortis

Prerequisites
To become a Hooded Pupil the character must meet the following requirements

Type: Must be a corporeal humanoid, monstrous humanoid, or giant.
Skill: Must have at least one rank in Knowledge (Arcane) or Knowledge (Religion).
Special: Must have at least 4 HD
Special: Must be accepted as the disciple of one of the following: a Vampire, Mummy, Lich, Ghoul, Ghost, or Death Knight. Which of these has accepted the Hooded Pupil as their disciple determines which Dead Master ability he takes.

Hit Dice: d8

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features

1st|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+2|Hooded Body, Resistance to Cold, Dark Power, Dead Master, +1 Wis, +1 Cha[/table]

Skills Points at 1st Level: (4+Intelligence Modifier) x 4
Skills Points at Each Level: (4+Intelligence Modifier)
Class Skills: The Hooded Pupil’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Arcane), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Use Magic Device (Cha).

Proficiencies:The Hooded Pupil is proficient with simple weapons, martial weapons and light armor.

Hooded Pupil Class Features: The following are the Class Features of the Hooded Pupil.

Hooded Body: Unlike other monster classes, the Hooded Pupil doesn't lose its racial ability modifiers. Its type remains the same. If it does not already have a natural armor bonus, the Hooded Pupil gains a natural armor bonus equal to its constitution modifier.

Ability Bonuses: Starting at 1st level the Hooded Pupil gains +1 Wisdom, and Charisma.

Resistance to Cold: Starting at 1st level the Hooded Pupil gains Resistance to Cold equal to its HD.

Dark Power: Starting at 1st level the Hooded Pupil gains the following abilities:

Spider Climb: Starting at 1st level the Hooded Pupil gains the ability to use Spider Climb as an at will supernatural ability.

Heart Clutch: You may focus on your opponents, causing them harm as you manipulate their blood against them. Pick one of the following:
You Gain Clutch of Orcus (Libris Mortis, p.63) as a spell like ability, castable once a day per two HD.

Blood Font: You may concentrate your malign will on a foe, causing them to sweat blood and their wounds to bleed profusely, usable 1/day per HD. While you concentrate, your target foe is slowed as per the spell by the agony of the ordeal, and takes 1d3 damage for every two HD you have. Foes who are already damaged (that is, not at full health or over max health by way of temporary hp) take 1d6 damage per two HD for each round you concentrate, instead. Foes below half health take 1d8 damage per two HD each round you concentrate. Foes get a saving throw (DC 10 + ½ Hooded Pupil HD + Hooded Pupil wisdom mod or Hooded Pupil charisma mod, whichever is higher) each time the Hooded Pupil initiates this effect, and if they succeed, they become immune to further attempts for 1 hour.

Drink Blood: At 1st level, the hooded pupil gains the ability to suck blood from a living victim 1/day per 2 HD. The hooded pupil must make a successful grapple attack, and when a Hooded Pupil drinks an opponent's blood, it deals 2 constitution damage to the victim and the Hooded Pupil heals damage equal to 1/HD+constitution modifier. This ability can only be used on a pinned or helpless opponent who has taken unhealed damage.

Dead Master: At 1st level the Hooded Pupil gains one of the following depending on which type of undead accepted the Hooded Pupil as it disciple:
Vampire's Forms: If the Hooded Pupil was accepted by a vampire he gains the ability to assume the shape of a bat or wolf 2/day per HD and a dire bat or dire wolf at 1/day per HD. At 10 HD The Hooded Pupil may use Gaseous Form as a spell like ability 1/day per HD.

Mummy's Wrappings: If the Hooded Pupil is the disciple of a mummy he wraps himself in protective magic bandages. The Hooded Pupil may activate the power of the bandages and gain DR/- equal to his HD 1/day per 3 HD. This lasts a number of rounds equal to twice the Hooded Pupil's HD.

Lich's Studies: If the Hooded Pupil is the disciple of a lich he gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class of the Hooded Pupil's choice.

Stench of Death: If the Hooded Pupil is the disciple of a ghast or ghoul he gains an unnaturally strong smell of rotting flesh. Living creatures within 5ft+5 ft./5 HD of the Hooded Pupil must succeed with a fortitude save (DC=10+1/2 HD+Cha Mod) or become sickened for 1d6+HD rounds. Creatures that fail by 10 or more become nauseated for 1 round. Creatures that succeed the fortitude save do not need to roll again for 24 hours.

Ghostly Essence: If the Hooded Pupil is the disciple of a ghost he may move through spaces occupied by other characters and gains a 25% miss chance against attacks of opportunity. At 8 HD the Hooded Pupil may move through walls and objects that are 5ft. thick or less. At 15 HD the Hooded Pupil may become incorporeal 1/day per HD for a number of rounds equal to his hit dice.

Death Knight's Combat Training: If the Hooded Pupil is the disciple of a Death Knight he becomes proficient in medium and heavy armor and shields (but not tower shields), gains a bonus feat chosen off the fighter bonus feat list, and +1 strength.



Comments:

I decided to include monstrous humanoid amongst the things that could be Hooded Pupils since it doesn't make sense to me why they would be disallowed. I originally had it be more then one level but was pointed out by fellow playgrounders why that wouldn't work.


Changelog: Feb 25 2011:

Made the Hooded Pupil a level 1 class
Got rid of Bonus Skills and Bonus Feats

Feb 26 2011

Clarified text for Drink Blood.
Made Clutch of Orcus 1/day per 2 HD.
Removed Evil alignment from the prerequisites
Added 4 HD to the Prerequisites.
Fixed Clutch of Orcus so that you don't need the Libris Mortis and made it add HD to damage.

Feb 27 2011
Removed Strength bonus.
Added prerequisite requiring the Hooded Pupil is taught by an intelligent undead.
Fixed typo with skills.
Removed Use Rope from skill list.
Feb 28 2011

Replaced Clutch of Orcus with Heart Clutch.

Mar 02 2011

Put the Wisdom and Charisma bonuses under "Ability Bonuses".
Put Spider Climb, Drink Blood, and Heart Clutch under "Dark Powers".
Made Drink Blood heal damage equal to 1/HD+constitution modifier and 2 constitution damage.
Bolded the different class abilities instead of having them italicized.


Mar 06 2011

Added the Dead Master abilities.
Changed the perquisite that requires an intelligent undead to accept the Hooded Pupil as its apprentice to pertain to the Dead Master abilities.
Changed the table back to show the ability bonuses as + 1 Wis, +1 Cha.
Moved Resistance to Cold to near the top of the list of abilities, as shown on the table.

flabort
2011-02-25, 08:02 PM
The point is to COMPLETELY IGNORE Level Adjustment, not base the class around it. Sorry if that comes off angry, but the class is supposed to equal the Challenge rating.
Commendations for trying, but I facepalm to you, my good sir.

Lizard Lord
2011-02-25, 08:05 PM
The point is to COMPLETELY IGNORE Level Adjustment, not base the class around it. Sorry if that comes off angry, but the class is supposed to equal the Challenge rating.
Commendations for trying, but I facepalm to you, my good sir.

If you really think all that stuff should go into the first level, then fine. That was the main reason I made it 4th level.

DiBastet
2011-02-25, 08:07 PM
Commendations for trying, but I facepalm to you, my good sir.

:smallsigh:


If you really think all that stuff should go into the first level, then fine.

Actually you should find a balance on it. Maybe remove one thing or another, to make it a 1 level prestige class. OR give it things to make it a 4 level prestige class. As it stands 1 level is bad, 4 levels ir worse.

Kobold-Bard
2011-02-25, 08:09 PM
Requesting the Dvati.

Crafty Cultist
2011-02-25, 08:15 PM
Lizard lord
Personally, I recommend focusing on the flavour of the class if you cant fit in everything. A hooded pupil is a creature changed by the influence of a powerful undead, so abilities that reflect that would be best.

Also, please don't spoiler the picture. when you're sorting through a lot of text the picture helps the actual classes to stand out.

I hope I've helped.

Lizard Lord
2011-02-25, 08:16 PM
I decided to make the Hooded Pupil level two and remove the bonus feats and bonus skills to make it work.

dsmiles
2011-02-25, 08:23 PM
HALP! I want to give this a shot, but can someone PM me the code for tables?

Hyudra
2011-02-25, 08:26 PM
Ragewalker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10374313#post10374313)
Lowest BAB for a martial character?
Ability names in table doesn't match up with ability names in text or in comments.
Nature Child: Rename to Ragewalker Body.
Mind of Rage:
A few problems here. First off, the initiator stuff is problematic because you're referring to stuff that isn't open content. It's copyrighted and not everyone has that content. RAW, the whole 'ragewalker levels count as initiator levels' implies you get the stances/maneuvers as you take levels in the class, which is likely unintended.
I'd say, not as a hard rule but strongly recommended, that when you're including material in your monster that refers to books a player might not have, it's probably a good idea to offer an alternative. Regardless of whether you intend for the Ragewalker to have initiator stances/maneuvers with levels in the class or whether it's meant to happen after they stop taking levels in the class, I might suggest something along the lines of "Alternately, ragewalker levels stack with barbarian for advancing rage" or the like, depending on the flavor you want to sell. That isn't terribly graceful, but offer something.
"Whenever the Ragewalker makes an opposed attack roll (including a grapple check) that was initiated against him" - really clumsy wording. I honestly am not sure what you intend to say by this.
"he can use his total HD in place of his BAB" - why? What's the aim here? This is a massive bonus at high levels.
"Whenever the Ragewalker makes an opposed Strength check that was initiated against him, he may use a Dexterity check instead." - Wording is awkward. Reword to: "If a maneuver is initiated against the Ragewalker and he is required to make a strength check as a consequence, he may make a dexterity check instead."
Grafted armor:
Worth stating it can be enchanted.
4 + ⅓ HD. So 4 at first, 5 at third, 6 at sixth, and so on until +10 at 18th. I guess my only issue with this is that armor class becomes so negligible at high levels, unless you can ~really~ pump it, and often it doesn't even matter after that, so I can't help but wonder if it's even worth the effort of having a different progression than just Con mod = armor. Just commenting, doesn't need changing either way, don't think.
Fey Body:
Rename. The 'body' abilities in this project are pretty much exclusively for the first level abilities that outline the racial benefits & particulars of any given monster. The ability's fine, it's just the name runs against convention.
Styptic Armor:
Styptic really isn't the right word for this. It means to slow bleeding. Not necessarily heal. Rename ability?
Weapon Cloud:
'Any creature adjacent to the Ragewalker take 1d4 damage' - takes.
"This damage increases by 1d6 per three total HD beyond this point" - this is awkwardly phrased. It implies that if the Ragewalker takes the second level of the class at a higher level, it gets less overall benefit, which is something we try to explicitly avoid in this project.
Reword to: 'This damage increases by 1d6 for every 3HD after the 2nd?
Not sure I love no-save damage. Especially at a low level.
Deflect Missiles:
As I read the first two levels, something was bugging me, and I finally realized what it was. The issue is that the Ragewalker, for all his class features, doesn't do anything. Levels 1-3 (I'll comment if further levels have this issue) don't give you options in combat. I mean, sure, they give you stuff you can do in response to actions against you, but even that's fairly thin. You've got a ton of well disguised passive abilities and nothing active thus far.
The 9HD benefit here is a little much, considering it makes you immune to pretty much all ranged attacks against you. Too much, too soon.
Consider something like 'Starting at 9HD, the Ragewalker may deflect additional missiles. Doing so uses up one of the Ragewalker's attacks of opportunity for the round. If he cannot make an attack of opportunity, the missile passes through uncontested.
Spell Resistant Armor:
Why 10+HD? I do believe 11+HD is standard.
Spell Like Abilities:
So at 4th level we finally get an active ability... usable once a day. Others come up later, but it's still very little to break up the monotony of 'I move and make a standard attack', 'I make a full attack', 'I make a full attack', 'I try to trip', 'I make a standard attack', 'I make a full attack'.
Command Living Spells:
I'm inclined to consider 5th level a dead level, because this ability is so unlikely to come up in regular play (without the DM catering to the ragewalker) that it's ignorable. Even when it does come up, there's the simple fact that the math for the turn undead class feature (and by extension, this) is so borked that (like truenaming, but to a lesser extent) you just won't be able to make a turn check at mid-high levels.
Induce Blood Frenzy:
A little much, given it's (for the most part) a save or lose against against casters, turning half of your encounters against casters into trivial fights. It's just too easy to apply given the impact of what it does.
It's worth saying, a Ragewalker at 6th level of the class, and still, your only active ability (one you choose to use in combat) beyond the most basic of basics, is a single casting of Bull's Strength. Even Induce Blood Frenzy is passive, just a gaze attack that's pretty much always on.
Repel Missiles:
You change pronouns mid-sentence. You refer to the Ragewalker by 'his', then change tacks a few words later to 'its'
Again, don't love that it works against all attacks at 12th level. I think I might prefer that it uses the ragewalker's attack roll on deflection, to avoid shenanigans where the Ragewalker effortlessly returns a god's bowshots back at the god.
Cloud Attack:
Finally, at 7th level, we get an active attack option with something to consider and think tactically about, outside of the most basic of basics (attack, full attack, maneuvers). A range increment of 30' seems like quite a bit. Isn't that a max range of 150'?
Cloud Fury:
"If he chooses to affect a 5ft radius it causes its normal Weapon Cloud damage. Finally, if it chooses to affect a 5ft radius it causes half its normal Weapon Cloud damage." - which is it, for a 5' radius?
Repel Magic:
"This ability is usable once per day plus one more time per three HD attained beyond this point." - awkward wording, and we're back at the 'beyond this point' bit that goes against project philosophy. Try "This ability is usable once a day, with an additional daily use for every three HD after 14HD."
{table=Head]Category|Score
Originality|Doing ok here. Only you've got a little too much reliance on SLAs and rather standardized abilities (Spell resistance, DR) to fill levels.
Playability|Low score here, I'm afraid. Waaaay too many levels with no active abilities. I mean, I'd need to get to 7th level to have anything more than a single buff SLA that I can use once a day. Until then, it's just attacks & maneuvers. That's nearly 100 encounters total before you've got the exp needed to get Cloud Attack.
Power|Eh. Not doing great here. Incite Blood Frenzy is a bit over the top and game breaking, and deflect/reflect missiles trivialize some encounters after you get the HD needed to get the upgrades.
Elegance|Some wording/phrasing errors and vague text, as described above.
Flavor|Not bad here. Could do with more flavor text to describe what abilities are doing. Like, 'the Ragewalker can extend his arm, simultaneously directing the whirling cloud of blades around him to volley across the battlefield and impale a target foe'[/table]
A good few problems to fix, but don't be disheartened. It's very much in line with the feedback the average poster gets for their first homebrew monster class.


HALP! I want to give this a shot, but can someone PM me the code for tables?

There's a link on the first post (or one of the first three posts) of the thread to a 'fill in the blanks' submission form that you can copy for your monster classes.

Edit: Here. Link. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9915170&postcount=41) Just make sure when you're previewing that you're not making the monster's name blue throughout. That's not supposed to be like that.


I decided to make the Hooded Pupil level two and remove the bonus feats and bonus skills to make it work.

Try to stick to convention by having the CR = the max level of the class. It can be a struggle to make stuff fit, but I know it can be done.

Lizard Lord
2011-02-25, 08:29 PM
Alright, changed it to be a 1 level class.

dsmiles
2011-02-25, 08:29 PM
There's a link on the first post (or one of the first three posts) of the thread to a 'fill in the blanks' submission form that you can copy for your monster classes.
KTHXBAI! :smallbiggrin:

Hyudra
2011-02-25, 08:35 PM
Alright, changed it to be a 1 level class.

Alright. Just FYI, the template that I linked dsmiles to might also help you out, in making a good looking monster class.

If that looks too daunting, consider just quoting a monster class, removing the quote tags & replacing everything step by step. It'll make for a much prettier entry.

Mystic Muse
2011-02-25, 08:35 PM
The point is to COMPLETELY IGNORE Level Adjustment, not base the class around it. Sorry if that comes off angry, but the class is supposed to equal the Challenge rating.
Commendations for trying, but I facepalm to you, my good sir.

You could be a little nicer about this.:smallannoyed:

Hyudra
2011-02-25, 08:37 PM
You could be a little nicer about this.:smallannoyed:

This is true.


...

Out of curiosity, which monster are you doing?


...

Just wanted to reaffirm, since some people may have missed it in the jumble of the last page:

Next four creature creators to ask me will get another critique on their monster, so if you've updated your monster since I last critiqued it, ask and I'll try to get to it.

flabort
2011-02-25, 08:45 PM
You could be a little nicer about this.:smallannoyed:

Oops. Did not actually intend to come off that... harsh. I more meant it too be a "You lose. Try again", like on the roll-up-the-rim TimHorton's cups.
You may not have a TimHortons in your area, but that's completely going off at a tangent.

Hyudra
2011-02-25, 08:55 PM
You may not have a TimHortons in your area, but that's completely going off at a tangent.

Dead Tim's is an integral part of Canadian life.

DiBastet
2011-02-25, 09:14 PM
Lowest BAB for a martial character?
Yeah, I really intend on keeping to the original creature type unless I MUST change it. I know I don't need to, but I want to keep it as a design challenge



Ability names in table doesn't match up with ability names in text or in comments.
They don't? It shall be looked upon



Nature Child: Rename to Ragewalker Body.
Er...:smallsigh:



Mind of Rage:
A few problems here. First off, the initiator stuff is problematic because you're referring to stuff that isn't open content. It's copyrighted and not everyone has that content. RAW, the whole 'ragewalker levels count as initiator levels' implies you get the stances/maneuvers as you take levels in the class, which is likely unintended.
Ahm, people already mentioned it, but isn't MM3 also copyrighted?



I'd say, not as a hard rule but strongly recommended, that when you're including material in your monster that refers to books a player might not have, it's probably a good idea to offer an alternative. Regardless of whether you intend for the Ragewalker to have initiator stances/maneuvers with levels in the class or whether it's meant to happen after they stop taking levels in the class, I might suggest something along the lines of "Alternately, ragewalker levels stack with barbarian for advancing rage" or the like, depending on the flavor you want to sell. That isn't terribly graceful, but offer something.
It's not graceful, but it will be done, my dark master.



"Whenever the Ragewalker makes an opposed attack roll (including a grapple check) that was initiated against him" - really clumsy wording. I honestly am not sure what you intend to say by this.
"he can use his total HD in place of his BAB" - why? What's the aim here? This is a massive bonus at high levels.
"Whenever the Ragewalker makes an opposed Strength check that was initiated against him, he may use a Dexterity check instead." - Wording is awkward. Reword to: "If a maneuver is initiated against the Ragewalker and he is required to make a strength check as a consequence, he may make a dexterity check instead."
The whole idea here is that when the ragewalker is defending itself against what Pathfinder calls a Combat Manuever, he can use his HD instead of BAB for it, like a pathfinder feat does. Feel free to tell me a better wording.



Grafted armor:
Worth stating it can be enchanted.
4 + ⅓ HD. So 4 at first, 5 at third, 6 at sixth, and so on until +10 at 18th. I guess my only issue with this is that armor class becomes so negligible at high levels, unless you can ~really~ pump it, and often it doesn't even matter after that, so I can't help but wonder if it's even worth the effort of having a different progression than just Con mod = armor. Just commenting, doesn't need changing either way, don't think.
Good it doesn't. It shall be stated.



Fey Body:
Rename. The 'body' abilities in this project are pretty much exclusively for the first level abilities that outline the racial benefits & particulars of any given monster. The ability's fine, it's just the name runs against convention.
It shall be done, dark lord.



Styptic Armor:
Styptic really isn't the right word for this. It means to slow bleeding. Not necessarily heal. Rename ability?
Fell free to give me a better name, dark lord



Weapon Cloud:
'Any creature adjacent to the Ragewalker take 1d4 damage' - takes.
"This damage increases by 1d6 per three total HD beyond this point" - this is awkwardly phrased. It implies that if the Ragewalker takes the second level of the class at a higher level, it gets less overall benefit, which is something we try to explicitly avoid in this project.
Reword to: 'This damage increases by 1d6 for every 3HD after the 2nd?
Not sure I love no-save damage. Especially at a low level.
It shall be done, dark lord. Besides I'll keep the no save because you already didn't like a save against this damage a the previous incarnation of the ability.



Deflect Missiles:
As I read the first two levels, something was bugging me, and I finally realized what it was. The issue is that the Ragewalker, for all his class features, doesn't do anything. Levels 1-3 (I'll comment if further levels have this issue) don't give you options in combat. I mean, sure, they give you stuff you can do in response to actions against you, but even that's fairly thin. You've got a ton of well disguised passive abilities and nothing active thus far.
I wanted to give the throw weapon earlier, dark lord. It shall be done.



The 9HD benefit here is a little much, considering it makes you immune to pretty much all ranged attacks against you. Too much, too soon.
Consider something like 'Starting at 9HD, the Ragewalker may deflect additional missiles. Doing so uses up one of the Ragewalker's attacks of opportunity for the round. If he cannot make an attack of opportunity, the missile passes through uncontested.
It's part of the original monster do this at will, but I'll give the at will at later levels, usable x times per turn at lower ones.



Spell Resistant Armor:
Why 10+HD? I do believe 11+HD is standard.
It will be done, dark lord.




Spell Like Abilities:
So at 4th level we finally get an active ability... usable once a day. Others come up later, but it's still very little to break up the monotony of 'I move and make a standard attack', 'I make a full attack', 'I make a full attack', 'I try to trip', 'I make a standard attack', 'I make a full attack'.
Besides giving the ranged attack earlier I don't see a solution for now, dark lord.



Command Living Spells:
I'm inclined to consider 5th level a dead level, because this ability is so unlikely to come up in regular play (without the DM catering to the ragewalker) that it's ignorable. Even when it does come up, there's the simple fact that the math for the turn undead class feature (and by extension, this) is so borked that (like truenaming, but to a lesser extent) you just won't be able to make a turn check at mid-high levels.
It's part of the original monster, besides, it's more or less just a feat. But I'll consider something extra, dark lord.



Induce Blood Frenzy:
A little much, given it's (for the most part) a save or lose against against casters, turning half of your encounters against casters into trivial fights. It's just too easy to apply given the impact of what it does.
It's worth saying, a Ragewalker at 6th level of the class, and still, your only active ability (one you choose to use in combat) beyond the most basic of basics, is a single casting of Bull's Strength. Even Induce Blood Frenzy is passive, just a gaze attack that's pretty much always on.
I'm starting to not get the problem with passive abilities. You cause damage to people adjacent, you have fast healing, SR, now a gaze, and you free your actions for the things you do with your feats...



Repel Missiles:
You change pronouns mid-sentence. You refer to the Ragewalker by 'his', then change tacks a few words later to 'its'
Again, don't love that it works against all attacks at 12th level. I think I might prefer that it uses the ragewalker's attack roll on deflection, to avoid shenanigans where the Ragewalker effortlessly returns a god's bowshots back at the god.
Like the iron heart manuever, I see. it shall be considered, dark lord.



Cloud Attack:
Finally, at 7th level, we get an active attack option with something to consider and think tactically about, outside of the most basic of basics (attack, full attack, maneuvers). A range increment of 30' seems like quite a bit. Isn't that a max range of 150'?
I really wanted to give it earlier. The range is okay for me.



Cloud Fury:
"If he chooses to affect a 5ft radius it causes its normal Weapon Cloud damage. Finally, if it chooses to affect a 5ft radius it causes half its normal Weapon Cloud damage." - which is it, for a 5' radius?
Sure, dark lord.



Repel Magic:
"This ability is usable once per day plus one more time per three HD attained beyond this point." - awkward wording, and we're back at the 'beyond this point' bit that goes against project philosophy. Try "This ability is usable once a day, with an additional daily use for every three HD after 14HD."
I'll try to do your bidding, dark lord

{table=Head]Category|Score
Originality|Thanks, dark lord.
Playability|I shall get cloud attack ealier, dark lord. But then, I believe it's part of the design many passive and defensive abilities. And getting the gaze always active isn't exactly party friendly...
Power|Induce blood frenzy was based on spells of similar power, dark lord.
Elegance|:smallsigh:
Flavor|It shall be added more fluff later, dark lord[/table]



A good few problems to fix, but don't be disheartened. It's very much in line with the feedback the average poster gets for their first homebrew monster class.
Compared with previous reviews from you, Hyudra, I'm kinda happy with this one.

Lix Lorn
2011-02-25, 09:33 PM
...why is she (I think) a Dark Lord? :smallbiggrin:

TheGeckoKing
2011-02-25, 09:47 PM
This is true.
Just wanted to reaffirm, since some people may have missed it in the jumble of the last page:

Next four creature creators to ask me will get another critique on their monster, so if you've updated your monster since I last critiqued it, ask and I'll try to get to it.

Well, I don't want to be a bother but I've added a new ability to the Vivisector, so could you go have a look if you have time?
For now, this monarch shall go get some sleep.

DiBastet
2011-02-25, 10:04 PM
...why is she (I think) a Dark Lord? :smallbiggrin:

Don't know. It's not meant as an offense. I just love star wars, and I think the sith are very cool (but I'm a jedi! Light side FTW), and the whole council thing, there were two, a lord and an apprentice... Don't know, sounded just cool...

Dark lady sounds... erh... un-sith?


In any case, the Ragewalker. I've tossed abilities around (I really wanted to give them earlier, and since I received such a low power score, then its cool!), added more ability bonuses (because many monsters have much more than +6 to DEX to a DEX based monster with low BAB).

If you're tossing reviews, I want one more.

Lord_Gareth
2011-02-25, 10:07 PM
Dark lady sounds... erh... un-sith?

"Whom do you serve, human?"
"The Dark Lady. I am hers to command..."

Sith are weaksauce villains, friend. Hyudra has much more in common with Sylvanas :P

DiBastet
2011-02-25, 10:15 PM
The vivisector seems really cool now. I would just add the following:

Choice Cuts: At 3rd level, when a Vivisector successfully uses its Vivisection or Dissection ability on a creature and kills them with it, they may scoop up the organs extracted, eat them, and pick a bonus from the following list, as a free action. (...) A Vivisector can also use Choice Cuts on a creature that died by other causes, but only if the creature has been dead by no longer than 1 minute.

One of my players would love use it.

DiBastet
2011-02-25, 10:16 PM
"Whom do you serve, human?"
"The Dark Lady. I am hers to command..."

Sith are weaksauce villains, friend. Hyudra has much more in common with Sylvanas :P

After Force Unleashed you'll never say this again, heretic!

Lord_Gareth
2011-02-25, 10:17 PM
After Force Unleashed you'll never say this again, heretic!

I've played it. Sith are still weaksauce, my friend. They're crippled by the same two flaws - two-dimensional morality and George Lucas's writing.

dsmiles
2011-02-25, 10:21 PM
Psurlon (v6.0)
http://www.mattdixon.co.uk/blog/Psurlon.jpg
Monster Class
Lords of Madness p. 162.

Class:

HD: d6

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|
Special

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Worm Body, Ability Bonus (CHA +1), Inertial Armor, Immunities, , Telekinetic Blast, Telepathy

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|Ability Bonus (INT +1, CHA +1, Blindsight, Combat Manifestation

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+3|Ability Bonus (INT +1, CHA +1), Damage Reduction, Psionics (Brain Lock, Cloud Mind, Read Thoughts)

4th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|Ability Bonus (INT +1, CHA +1), Improved Telekinetic Blast, Power Resistance

5th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|Ability Bonus (INT +1, CHA +1), Telekinetic Thrust

6th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+4|Ability Bonus (CHA +1), Narrow Mind

7th|
+5|
+2|
+2|
+5|Telekinetic Burst, Psionic Dimension Door, Telekinetic Maneuver[/table]

[Skills Points at First Level: (4+Intelligence Modifier) x 4
Skills Points at Each Level: (4+Intelligence Modifier)
Class Skills: The Psurlon's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Dungeoneering), Knowledge (Psionics) (Int), Psicraft (Int), and Sense Motive (Wis).

Proficiencies: The Psurlon gains is proficient with only its natural weapons. Psurlons gain no proficiency with armor or shields.

Psurlon Body: The Psurlon loses all other racial bonuses and gains Aberration traits, granting it darkvision with a range of 60'. Psurlons are initially Medium sized creatures with a base movement speed of 30 ft, possessing a bite attack that deals 1d6 + the Psurlon's Strength modifier damage. Psurlons have Undercommon as a starting language, with additional languages for a high intelligence score as normal. They also have a +4 racial bonus on Escape Artist checks due to their soft and flexible bodies.
Psurlons are naturally psionic, and at first level gain 1 bonus power point. At each following Psurlon level, a Psurlon gains bonus power points equal to half of their current Hit Dice (rounded down). Psurlons do not gain known powers, however, levels of Psurlon count as Wilder levels for the purposes of maximum power level known and maximum power points spent to manifest a Wilder power.

Ability Bonus: The Psurlon gains +1 to Charisma at level 1 through level 6, and +1 to Intelligence at level 2 through level 5, for a total bonus of +6 to Charisma and +4 to Intelligence at 7th level.

Immunities (Ex): Psurlons are immune to sleep, charm, and compulsion effects.

Inertial Armor (Su):Psurlons project a mild field of force from their bodies, giving them a deflection bonus equal to their Constitution modifier.

Telekinetic Blast (Su): Masters of telekinesis, psurlons rarely attack with physical weapons, instead preferring to use their telekinetic blast. At 1st level, a Psurlon may, as a standard action, project a blast of telekinetic force that causes 1d6 force damage on a successful ranged touch attack. At each odd level this damage increases by 1d6, to a maximum of 9d6. A Psurlon must be psionically focused to use its telekenitic blast.

Telepathy (Su): A Psurlon can communicate with any creature that has a language telepathically, within 50 ft. The range of a Psurlon's telepathy increases by 20 ft per Hit Die to a maximum range of 250 ft.

Blindsight (Ex): At 2nd level Psurlon develops the ability to ascertain its surroundings by sensing sound, scent, heat, and vibration. This ability allows it to discern objects and creatures within 60'. The Psurlon does not normally need to make Spot or Listen checks to notice creatures within range of its blindsight.

Combat Manifestation (Ex): At 2nd level, the Psurlon gains Combat Manifestation as a bonus feat.

Damage Reduction (Ex): Beginning at 3rd level the Psurlon gains Damage Reduction equal to (1/2HD)/psionic.

Psionics (Ps): As a Psurlon becomes more powerful, it gains psionic powers as Psi-like abilities.
At 3rd level, a Psurlon gains the following abilities: brain lock (1/day per manifester level), cloud mind (1/day per manifester level), and read thoughts (at will).
At 5th level, Psurlons gain the following Psi-like ability: telekinetic thrust (1/day per 2 manifester levels).
At 7th level, Psurlons gain the following Psi-like abilities: psionic dimension door (1/day per 2 manifester levels), and telekinetic maneuver (1/day per 2 manifester levels).
A Psurlon's manifester level is equal to its Hit Dice, and the save DCs are Charisma-based. A Psurlon must be psionically focused to use any of its Psi-Like Abilities.

Improved Telekinetic Blast (Su): Beginning at 4th level, as a full-round action, the Psurlon may manifest its telekinetic blast against multiple targets. For each 4 Hit Dice, the Psurlon may spend 4 power points to add one additional target, to a maximum of 5 additional targets. The Psurlon needs to make a successful ranged touch attack against each target in order to inflict damage. A psurlon must be psionically focused to use its improved telekinetic blast.

Power Resistance (Su): At 4th level, the Psurlon's mind becomes resistant to mental attacks. It gains Power Resistance equal to 10 plus its Hit Dice.

Psionic Meditation (Ex): At 6th level, a Psurlon gains Psionic Meditation as a bonus feat.

Telekinetic Burst (Su): At 7th level, a Psurlon can unfocus its telekinetic blast and cause it to expand into an area effect. A psurlon must spend its psionic focus and 6 power points per 10 ft radius of its telekinetic burst, to a maximum radius of 50 ft. All targets within the burst are allowed a Fortitude save for half damage. The save DC is Charisma-based.
Comments

This is my first swag at a homebrewed monster class.
I am used to using the Psionics are Different variant, so DR/Psionic fits. In a Psionics are the Same campaign DR/psionic and PR are the same as DR/magic and SR.
Changelog

- Changed (v1.0 – v5.0): Concussion Blast to limit damage output and number of targets; Inertial Armor to 1/day/2ML; 1/day and 3/day abilities to 1/day/2ML and 1/day/ML; DR to 1/2HD/psionic; Ability bonuses are now a total of INT+4 and CHA+6; Reduced HD to d6; removed concussion blast in favor of more generic Telekinetic Blast at lvl 1/Improved Telekinetic Blast at level 4; removed Claws; reduced Darkvision to 60 ft., removed energy bolt (didn't really fit the flavor anyways); Bonus PP have a purpose, added PP cost to ITB, limited CHA bonus to +5 (:smallsigh:), added Wilder multiclass note.

- Changed: (v6.0) Added 2 levels; Changed "Worm Body" to "Psurlon Body" (happy now? jeez.); adjusted PSLs to the "correct" manifester levels; added Telekinetic Burst; DR/psionic and Wilder multi-class remain unchanged

DiBastet
2011-02-25, 10:34 PM
Sith are still weaksauce, my friend.

You have the right to be wrong, weakling. Soooon the Sith will rule the galaxyyyy. And. We. Shall. Have. Peace.



Psurlon

Holy @#$%! Psurlons! My wife's calling me to sleep, but tomorrow I'll review it first thing in the morning!

dsmiles
2011-02-25, 10:36 PM
Holy @#$%! Psurlons! My wife's calling me to sleep, but tomorrow I'll review it first thing in the morning!Why, thank you, good sir. It may be a tad OP, but I have high hopes.

flabort
2011-02-25, 10:39 PM
Sith? Sylvanas?
If you're arguing over one against the other, you have not heard of the power of Combine and Conquer!
....The darkest lady will have a word with you later.

Mystic Muse
2011-02-25, 10:44 PM
Psionics: Psurlons are naturally psionic creatures and gain 1 bonus power point at 1st level. They also gain the following powers as Psi-like abilities at 1st level: inertial armor (at will) and brain lock (3/day).
At 2nd level, the Psurlon gains the following Psi-like abilities: concussion blast (at will) and cloud mind (3/day).
At 3rd level, Psurlons gain the following Psi-like abilities: read thoughts (at will) and telekinetic thrust (1/day).
At 4th level, the Psurlon gains the following Psi-like ability: telekinetic maneuver (1/day).
At 5th level, Psurlons gain the following Psi-like abilities: energy bolt (3/day) and psionic dimension door (1/day).
A Psurlon's manifester level is equal to its Hit Dice, and the save DCs are Charisma-based. Uses per day should scale with Hit dice rather than being a flat amount per day. Also, abilitiess shouldn't be at will. I suggest changing concussion blast and inertial armor to 1/day per 2 HD and 1/day per HD respectively. I'll check the other powers in a bit to see whether they should be allowed at the level they're at.


Worm Body: At 1st level the Psurlon loses all racial traits. They become a Medium Aberration. They gain a bite attack as its primary natural weapon, dealing 1d6 damage. A Psurlon also has a two claw attacks as secondary natural weapons, which deal 1d4 damage. A Psurlon's primary natural weapons add their STR modifier to damage, and their secondary natural weapons add half of their STR modifier. A Psurlon has darkvision to a range of 120 ft. They also have a +4 racial bonus on Escape Artist checks due to their soft and flexible bodies. A Psurlon gains a +2 bonus to their Intelligence and Charisma scores. This should go below proficiencies before anything else. Also, if you want to give it +2 to Int and charisma, it should be spread out over all levels. Also, it looks like it gets way too many ability score boosts over the levels according to the table.

Combat Manifestation: At 2nd level, the Psurlon gains Combat Manifestation as a bonus feat.


Damage Reduction: Beginning at 3rd level the Psurlon gains Damage Reduction 10/psionic. DR should scale with hit dice, and DR 10 is way too much for level 3. I suggest reducing it to half your hit dice as per normal.

Convoluted Mind: At 5th level the Psurlon's neural pathways become twisted and a mental door unlocks. The Psurlon manifests its psi-like abilities as if it had 2 extra Hit Dice.[/quote] Not sure how this interacts with powers at the moment. I'll have a better critique once I check.

Another problem I notice is it doesn't seem to get power points as it levels, meaning it can't augment its powers.

dsmiles
2011-02-25, 10:49 PM
Will do. I was trying to match it up with the stats and psi-like abilities in the book.


Not sure how this interacts with powers at the moment. I'll have a better critique once I check. It really doesn't, except for ML checks. Damage only scales with augmentation, and DC scales with Primary Stat increases and augmentation.


Another problem I notice is it doesn't seem to get power points as it levels, meaning it can't augment its powers. So...maybe I should make this a manifester class, and give it a power list? Think that would help?

Mystic Muse
2011-02-25, 11:09 PM
Will do.
It really doesn't, except for ML checks. Damage only scales with augmentation, and DC scales with Primary Stat increases and augmentation. Okay.



So...maybe I should make this a manifester class, and give it a power list? Think that would help? That seems a little excessive. Maybe give it the bonus power points you normally get from leveling in psionic classes? I don't have any real experience with Psionics so I might have to end my critique here.\

EDIT: I may have misunderstood what you meant here. I'm guessing you didn't mean that you were going to create new powers specifically for the monsters.

Hyudra
2011-02-25, 11:56 PM
[Monster]
Image URL Goes Here!
Monster Class [OR] Prestige Monster Class/Template
Source of Original Monster. For example: Monster Manual/SRD or Heroes of Horror

Class:


[Monster] Prerequisites
To become a [Monster], the character must meet the following requirements:

Prerequisite: Whatever that may be.
Prerequisite: Whatever that may be.
Prerequisite: Whatever that may be.

/////////////Delete everything from monster prequisites, above, down to here if if you're not making a template/prestige monster class.

HD: D#

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|
Special

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5th|
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7th|
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8th|
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20th|
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+x|Class Ability[/table]
//////////////Delete rows from the table until you have an appropriate number. Be sure to end with [/table]

Skill Points: (x + Int modifier) per level, x4 at first level.
Class Skills: The [Monster]’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Autohypnosis (Wis), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Iaijutsu Focus (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (specific, each listed individually), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Martial Lore (Int), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Perform (Cha), Psicraft (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Speak Language (n/a), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Truespeak (Int), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha), Use Psionic Device (Cha), and Use Rope (Dex).

/////////////Delete class skills from the above list until you've got an appropriate selection. Also, delete "x4 at first level" if this is a prestige monster class/template.

Proficiencies: The [Monster] gains proficiency with...

/////////////Specify armor, weapon, and shield proficiencies, or lack thereof. If your [Monster] gains a natural weapon, it is a good idea to mention that it becomes proficient with it. If making a prestige monster class/template, specify whether it retains the proficiencies of the base creature (it nearly always will).

[Monster] Body: The [Monster] loses all other racial bonuses and becomes a [Monster Type] ([any Subtypes]). It gains [Monster Type] traits, granting it (list vision types, any type-based immunities or resistances). [Monster]s are initially [Starting Monster Size Here] sized creatures with a base land speed of [Movement speed]', possessing [Natural Attacks] that deal [damage] + Str modifier [Or 1.5, 2x Str, depending] damage and Natural Armor equal to their Con modifier. A [Monster] has [Language] as a starting language, with additional languages for a high Int score as normal.

/////////////If the monster does not have natural armor or natural weapons, delete the appropriate text from the above. The current standard is that this ability should always be named [Monster] Body, where [Monster] is the actual, exact name of your monster, e.g. "Fire Elemental Body" rather than "Flaming Body" or "Body of Flame". For Outsiders, be sure to specify what plane they are native to in the standard D&D cosmology. Monsters from Eberron-specific sourcebooks may specify a plane from the Eberron planar cosmology instead. Monster type and subtype traits can be found at http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/typesSubtypes.htm

Attribute Increase: The [Monster] gains +1 to [Stat] at levels [X, Y, Z], and +1 to [Stat] at levels [Q, R, S] for a total increase of at [whatever the highest level of the class is] level.

/////////////If your [Monster] gains less/no ability score increases, then edit/delete the above bit. Avoid using the word "bonus" in the above paragraph.

Class Feature: Starting at Xth level the [Monster] gains the ability to...

Class Feature: Upon reaching Xth level the [Monster] gains the access to…

Class Feature: At Xth level the [Monster] learns to…

Class Feature: Beginning at Xth level the [Monster] can use …

/////////////And so on. Remember to add (Ex), (Su), and (Sp) tags to abilities where appropriate, and specify what level an ability is gained at in the first sentence or so of its description (preferably in the first few words).



Comments

//////////////Your comments on the class, the creation process, ideas that went into it and stuff like that goes here.


Changelog

/////////////List changes you make in response to feedback, in as much detail as possible here. More details on writing a good changelog in the Changelog FAQ.

Above data is a version of the work originally done by Chumplump, as modified by Hyudra, Psyborg, and others. Many thanks to Chumplump.

Putting Together a Monster Class, Using the Above:
Before you start, check the Base Monster Classes, Prestige Monster Classes, Unfinished Monster Classes and the Interest lists to be sure that someone hasn't already done the monster you're about to do, that they aren't halfway, and that nobody's called dibs (sorry, it's a first come, first claim basis, here).
Copy all the text in the above box into a new post.
Better yet, save yourself a lot of work in the long run by...
Copying it into notepad (word documents might cause you issues by trying to color the text or adding weird spaces), going to 'Edit', clicking on 'Replace...' ...
Put [Monster] in the 'find' box.
Put your monster's name in the 'replace with...' box.
Click 'replace all'.
Copy everything (Ctrl+A, then Ctrl+X)
Then paste it into your post field.
Preview often, replacing stuff in brackets that isn't formatting code (like [stat]) with the appropriate details.
Stuff starting with ////////////// is just notes for you. Read them, then delete them so your monster class is tidy.
Try not to post your monster before you're done. If you're only half done, consider copy-pasting your text from the reply window to a word document and saving that. Alternately, you could try sending yourself a private message on the site, which gives you the ability to preview it.
Try not to have any text on the post with the monster class aside from what's absolutely necessary. Even a "Ta da! Here's my Hypnotoad that I spent hours on..." at the beginning is distracting to someone who just wants the monster, and makes it look messy.
When you're done, don't post right away. Start by spellchecking, then preview and read carefully through it as many times as you need, to be reasonably confident you didn't make any silly errors.
But wait, one more thing: Try looking at a well done monster class (see the 'what your post should look like when you're done' bit, below). Is there something drastically different about the look of the two posts? Did you add a new section? Does your post not have an image, or is the image hidden in the spoiler? If there's a big difference between your posts, you may have done something iffy.
If all that's done, post away.
Or:
Just quote another monster class, remove the quote tags, and strip it of everything relating to the monster it once was, everything you don't need, and then fill in the details. This is the preferred method of yours truly. Spell checking and comparing it to another monster class is probably a good idea.

What Your Post Should Look Like When You're Done:

Example (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10262043#post10262043)

Design Guidelines for Monsters, a FAQ

Give me the basics

Monster classes, as designed by Wizards of the Coast, suck. They've got screwy HD, they've still got overpowered abilities, huge attribute bonuses and they're by and large pretty boring. Creatures with LA are little better.

So we're aiming to make monster classes that work. That means no huge attribute bonuses, monster abilities that would break the game are tweaked. Overall, we want to take the monsters which were designed by WotC to be easy, intuitive and quick for a DM to throw into a combat and make them into classes - which are more complex, more involving, interesting to play and depend on long term interaction with both a group and a larger campaign world.

Long and short of it, we're striving for:

Originality - The monster class should be unique. It should stand out from the rest, as a class.
Playability - The monster should allow for fluid, engaging, amusing and uninterrupted play at the table.
Balance - The monster should be balanced enough that it's not going to hold the group back or dominate everything without even trying, both overall and at a given stage in its development.
Elegance - The page which details the monster for the player should look good and be easy to understand.
Flavor - Last but certainly not least, we want to preserve the flavor and the atmosphere of the monster the monster class is based off of.
To these ends, there's a critiquing process where we'll go over your monster to find issues and help you work them out before we add the monster to the larger list.
What are some good rules and rules of thumb to go by?

Remember, monsters don't adhere to the type or the monster entry 100%. When designing the monster class, you should use the following standards and be able to justify anything different.

Maximum level in the class is equal to the monster's CR.
So essentially, a CR 7 monster will be a class 7 levels long.
We've proven that we can do this with every class to date. It can take some work, but you can make it fit.
People keep asking, and we keep refusing: Stick to this as though it were a hard and fast rule.
HD:
For those who are confused, HD for these monster classes is synonymous with ECL, or effective character level.
I'm stressing this because people don't listen: there is no need to match the size of the HD (d10, d8, d6, d4) to that of the base monster.
It shouldn't need to be said, but monsters get a HD advancement with every level in the class, unlike standard monster classes.
Monster class BAB tends to fall into four general categories:
Full BAB (ie. as a Fighter) goes to monsters that are trained and experts at fighting. Monster that, even without class levels, are capable of parrying sword blows and going head to head with a swashbuckler and not looking like a dunce in the doing.
¾ BAB (ie. as a Rogue) with Str bonuses for 'brute' monsters. The ones that aren't martially trained but still hit hard. The Str bonuses should be very consistent (+1 Str a level or +1 Str every ⅔ levels) to counterbalance the loss of innate BAB. They won't hit as often, but they'll hit hard.
¾ BAB for other monsters that don't fall into the above category and that aren't explicitly 'casters' in role and design.
½ BAB (ie. as a Wizard) for squishy monsters. These monsters typically have full casting or powers otherwise fitting to such.
Saving throw progressions have two variants for each saving throw, good (like a Fighter's Fortitude save progression) and bad (like a wizard's Fortitude save progression).
As a general guideline, think of what class is closest to your monster in design. Is it more like a barbarian, monk, a rogue or a wizard? If so, try using the save progression of those classes as a starting point.
Balance saves against HD, BAB and skills/skill points. A creature with full BAB and 6+int skills per level probably doesn't need good progression for 2 different saving throw types, let alone three.
Skill points per level and skills known generally stay within convention:
One thing many people get wrong is that they go for something unconventional with skill points, such as d3, d5, d7. This comes up more often than one might expect. Don't do it.
Skill points should, as with saves, reflect the role of the class. If the class is good at fighting on the front lines, it probably doesn't need to be a skill monkey too.
For skills known, try to keep it within a sane range of the skill points gained per level. A dumb brute with 2+int per level doesn't need 12 different skills for its skills known. Conversely, a more knowledgeable class with 8+int skills per level shouldn't have less than 10 skills on the list, lest it be forced to take cross class ranks.
In some cases, it bears noting, it may be justified to offer a monster talented in a particular field less skill points/skills known, but with racial bonuses or abilities that complement the skill. Convention for this is to offer a monster a bonus on uses of the skill equal to ½ its HD. One skill improved in this manner is enough, two is discouraged but allowed, three is too much.
Undead and constructs do not gain class skills. Plants should have relatively few.
Natural armor is reflective of an inborn toughness. Convention is:
Natural armor equal to one's Constitution modifier for 75-90% of the creatures out there with natural armor.
Natural armor equal to one's Constitution modifier +1, with an added +1 every time they grow a size category, for monsters with the kind of toughness that makes people wonder if their blades will dull on the monster's scales or hide (such as Dragons and Bulettes).
Weaker monsters may justify natural armor equal to ½ one's Constitution modifier. This is also a good idea if there are concerns about armor proficiency being coupled with natural armor for too much toughness, on monsters it doesn't fit.
Monsters without Constitution are justified in using natural armor equal to their Strength modifier (common for constructs and undead) or their Charisma modifier (common for psionic entities and other less solid beings).
Template/Prestige Monster Classes should offer a bonus to natural armor as opposed to a natural armor bonus, with the difference being that the former stacks with the latter.
It's often worth stressing for templates that involve growing natural armor, that they either gain natural armor or enhance any existing natural armor, to allow for a range of monsters taking the template/prestige monster class).
Ability score increases reflect increases in capability well above that of your average human:
A common mistake is to offer too much in the way of ability scores. Err on the side of caution.
Ability score increases should be one of the last things one adds to a monster class before submission. Get it done or nearly done, and then judge the overall efficacy of the monster and how well it reflects the capabilities of the base monster. Skill advances should generally shore up weaknesses and areas where the monster simply does not match up to the base creature.
Humanoids tend to get less (excepting those areas where the humanoid is a brute monster, as covered in BAB, above), while monsters without the ability to speak or perform fine manipulation tend to get a little bit more.
When distributing ability scores, try to have less/none at first level. This prevents a monster from becoming too good a dip - that is, it shouldn't be a class a player takes just one level in because the first level benefits are so good.
When in doubt, none at all. If that doesn't work, then try +1 per 3 levels.
Finally, where I've gone into depth on ability score bonuses, it bears stating that we try to avoid penalties wherever possible.
Abilities offered should strike a balance between active & passive. See a few questions below on the FAQ here for more details on what that means. Further:
No dead levels! That means no levels where the monster doesn't get any abilities. Such is boring and needless. Levels where the monster gets abilities that aren't worth using, as well, can be counted as dead levels.
Some monsters don't have enough abilities to stretch out over their full array of levels. Don't be afraid to come up with original abilities to fill in the gaps.
Further, some abilities that are integral to the monster just won't work as is. In this case, scrap the abilities and rebuild it from scratch, in a way that lets it progress steadily as the monster advances.
Movement modes are tricky because while they're common at mid-high levels, they can break the game at low levels.

Flight:
Shouldn't be granted before 4th level. Flight trivializes low level encounters, since very few enemies will have a way of harming a flying PC. It lets PCs hang in the air and fire ranged weapons until the enemies are dead, or escape unhindered if things go south.
Grant flight at 4th level if the base monster uses flight as an integral part of its nature. A wyvern, imp, giant eagle and giant wasp would be instances of monsters who just aren't the same without flight.
Grant flight at 5th level for creatures who get it, but don't rely on it. Cases might include some celestials and some humanoid psionic creatures.
For creatures who just can't deal without some means of flight before 4th level, consider a placeholder ability. The Harpy, for example, gains the ability to make augmented Jumps and Climb checks, using her wings to bear her up. The Wyvern and Imp can fly at early levels, but have to land at the end of each turn of flight.
Finally, we should give a nod to those creatures who levitate and lack limbs to carry them about. Beholders, brain in a jar and the like all float. To keep them from taking to the sky, consider an ability that lets them float only a certain height above the ground. At 4th-5th level they might gain an ability that frees them from this restriction.
Burrowing:
Same issues as flight. Though it's a little harder to attack from range while burrowed, burrowing creatures can go underground and pop up across the battlefield, pelt a foe and then duck back underground before the foe can close the distance. Also, like flying creatures, burrowing creatures can circumvent many dungeon features. Same general rules as flight.
Size increases are both common and beneficial.
Large size shouldn't be available before 4th level/4HD. Some unavoidable exceptions (Ogre among them), but try to avoid it where possible.
Huge size shouldn't show up before 12 HD.
Gargantuan size shouldn't show up before 16 HD.
Colossal size shouldn't occur before 20th HD.
Tiny size is problematic for other reasons:
Tiny size can't be avoided because it doesn't make sense for many tiny creatures (ie. a housecat) to start small and then shrink.
It tends to offer sizable bonuses, all things considered. The vast majority of tiny creatures get hide as a class skill, which makes for an easy +16 to hide at first level. With many getting dexterity bonuses, this can ramp up to +18 by second level. Most enemies will never beat that check.
It also offers a lot of penalties. To attack an enemy, one must move into their space. This severely limits one's options.
There's also the issue of sameness. Many/most tiny creatures play exactly the same, especially at low levels. Hide, move into an enemy's square, and dish out as much damage as you can.
The first fix for the above is to try to deviate from this formula in some fashion.
Having an active ability or movement mode that confers some benefit but prevents or hinders hiding/silent movement is one option; the Phase Wasp's flight is an example.
Alternately, consider the possibility of a small creature with slight build.
Damage Reduction, Spell Resistance:
DR shouldn't occur before 2nd level, 3rd is suggested. Standard is DR equal to ½ one's HD.
SR shouldn't occur before 2nd level, 3rd is suggested. Standard is SR equal to 11 + the creature's HD.
Full Casters:
Should be crafted very carefully to not overshadow the wizard, sorcerer or cleric.
Special abilities, uses per day and action expenditure:
Abilities should scale with HD. See the question below for more details on scaling.
If an ability is too powerful for low levels, it is perfectly acceptable to offer a weaker version and scale it up over time.
Uses per day should scale with HD.
If a spell qualifies as a save or lose (or 'save or suck', or 'save or die') - an ability that forces a save lest it effectively take an enemy out of combat, it should not become anything less than a move action.
What are the rules on using copyrighted material?

The hard & fast rule (for here & elsewhere) is that you can base your monster classes on material from original sources. You can't copy text directly from copyrighted material. OGL stuff (Stuff found in the SRD or posted by WotC online) is kosher. Anything else is probably not. When in doubt, ask in the thread.

More generally, for this project, don't write up your monster in a way that would demand a player to have a specific sourcebook. If your monster gives a feat or spell that is found on page 113 of It's Cold Outside, and the player doesn't have that book, the player can't use your monster. This is annoying and bad. That leaves two solid options:
Don't do it. Come up with an original ability or a replacement ability that holds to the spirit of that particular spell, feat or ability.
Offer an equal and fair alternative. Something along the lines of "You gain X spell from Y sourcebook or you gain the following ability, described below."
Don't expect, either, for a player to have the sourcebook with the monster you want to play.

What's this scaling thing people keep chanting at me?:

Scaling refers to abilities that get consistently better as you level. Consider the following hypothetical skill:

Smash that Doesn't Scale: You do 5 bonus damage.
Smash that Scales: You do bonus damage equal to your Strength Mod.
The former doesn't scale. You deal 5 damage, and while that might be perfectly good at level 1, when you're level 15, it's so useless you might as well not have it.

The second ability, 'Smash that Scales' does scale. If you're a melee class, you'll have 4-5 strength at early levels, but as you gain levels, your strength score increases, and Smash gets consistently better. By level 15, it might do 8-10 bonus damage. Hopefully, this scales well enough to keep the ability useful, so that you don't feel like you wasted the level by taking a level in the monster class. It also helps you feel like you're growing more consistently powerful.

So what are the ways I can make something scale?

There's a few ways to make something scale. Consider the following:

...This ability allows a saving throw, with a DC of 10 + ½ HD + Cha Mod.
This is how abilities and spells that demand saving throws scale 95% of the time. Generally speaking, it means that foes with bad saves & bad stats to apply to their saves will fail most of the time, foes with good stats and good stats to apply to their saves will pass most of the time. People in the middle ground have about a 50-50 chance. It's perfect.

This attack deals 1d8+Str damage
Simple enough, you do more damage as your strength gets higher. As a plus, for classes that grow, your natural attacks and most abilities that deal natural attack damage will also increase a step whenever you grow.

Shoop da Woop: Deal 1d6 bonus damage, plus an additional 1d6 for every 3 HD you have.
This makes for an ability that scales up in damage at a slow, steady, reliable rate.

You may cast Spell Like Ability twice a day, with an additional usage for every 5HD you have.
If you get an SLA or an ability with limited uses a day, chances are it's going to become a little less relevant as you gain levels. Getting more daily/hourly/weekly uses out of it is a good way to make it scale. If you feel you're getting too few uses at early levels and you can't figure out how to give more without having too many at high levels, consider something like, "You can use this a number of times a day equal to your HD or your Con mod, whichever is more." - it means you'll have between 2-4 uses at early levels, but you'll steadily get more later.

Smash: You deals 999 damage. At 9HD, Smash also forces the enemy to make a fortitude save or die.
Ignoring the ridiculousness of the example, note the 'at 9HD, Smash yadda yadda yadda.' - this is a case of upgrading an ability at a later HD. Whatever the case, try to emphasize scaling over HD rather than scaling with levels. The former ensures the ability stays relevant no matter how you multiclass. The latter (scaling by levels) tends to require you to dedicate yourself to taking levels in the class.

There's more ways for abilities to scale. Try looking at monsters that have been recently added to the list and look at how their abilities improve over time.
I'm being told to emphasize active abilities over passive ones. What does this mean?

There's two broad types of abilities a monster gets. Active and passive. Compare the following:

Netherbolt: The Shadowbat may, as a standard action, fire off a bolt of pure darkness, dealing 1d6 damage for every two HD the Shadowbat has.

Shadow Cloak: The Shadowbat gains a bonus to Hide equal to half its HD.
While both are fine skills and both scale in an appropriate way, the former ability is active. Netherbolt is a standard action, it requires the player to make a decision to use it, and it does something. The second ability is passive. It's always on. It's a set bonus that you don't need to think about. It does something all the time, with no decision making process involved.

So why is this important? In general, someone needs to beat an average of 13.3 fair encounters before they gain a level. Let's say our hypothetical player Johnny is playing in his DM's campaign from levels 1-6 with a monster class. That means Johnny is probably going to run up against 66 and a half encounters, give or take. If Johnny is playing a tentacle demon monster class with no active abilities, he's going to spend 66.5 encounters doing nothing but declaring charges, attacking, full attacking and maybe using a combat maneuver like trip, bull rush or grapple. It's not terribly exciting, it's not a boatload of fun. Whatever the passive abilities are, Johnny's probably not making many meaningful decisions.

On the other side of the coin, if Johnny is playing a monster class with active abilities, he's making the choice whether to use those abilities or to attack, whether to trip or to use his monster's tentacle love. There's choices made, and by making those choices, Johnny is getting more immersed in the game. Rather than just feeling like a beatstick that just happens to be dressed up like a tentacle demon, Johnny feels like a tentacle demon doing tentacle demon stuff. This is what we're going for.

What's going on with these undead and Construct monster classes? Why don't they have skills?

Undead and Constructs get a whole bunch of bonuses just for being undead/construct type. You're immune to poison, diseases, stunning, mind affecting stuff, morale effects, you get a bunch of HD, you can't be crit, you take no ability damage... the list goes on and on and on. It's a huge list of benefits!

To prevent them from being too powerful as one-level dips (creating situations where everyone takes single a level in, say, skeleton, to ensure they can be undead and they get all those choice benefits), there's a rule that if you're undead or construct, you don't get class skills. So you're forced to put ranks in cross-class skills. We generally aim for undead and constructs to be a little less powerful, as well.

Changelog FAQ:

What is a changelog

A changelog is a spoilered box at the bottom of your post that you keep notes in after you've posted the monster. As you make changes to the monster based on feedback and your own second thoughts, you list those changes in the changelog, keeping track and letting others keep track with you.
Why have a changelog?

Three reasons:
The first is for people critiquing the class. If they can read your changelog and know you've only changed abilities A, B and C, then they can focus their attention on those abilities and give you good feedback. If you don't have a good changelog, then they have to read your entire monster to find the changes. That's time consuming, and that means time not spent giving you good feedback.
The second reason is for people playing the class. Let's say you create the Longcat monster class, and Jack decides to play a Longcat. He's midway through a campaign using your longcat when you go back and change how an ability works. Jack goes to level up his Longcat, and, wait a second, stuff is different! Using the Changelog helps Jack figure out what just happened and ideally, lets him get his Longcat working again.
The third reason is YOU. Having a changelog helps you keep your head screwed on straight when you're making a lot of revisions. It keeps you on track and helps you remember what critiques you've responded to. As a side benefit, you can also copy-paste your changelog into a new post to let people know what you've done to fix up your monster.
What makes for a good changelog?

Example of a Good Changelog:

Feb 03, 2011:
[list] Gnaw bite & bonus damage now penetrate DR.
Excision bonus to saves is halved.
Tumescent recovery is clarified. Added a table elaborating on the healing amount.
Feb 06, 2011:
Gnaw (which was a singular bite attack that did bonus damage equal to the target's total HD, penetrating DR) replaced with Chomp, a single bite attack that can deal potentially massive damage, which was the intent anyways.
Clarified what Immobilization does, under Thrash.
Leaving Rend, Tumescent Recovery and Violent Onslaught alone until I decide what to do with them.
Feb 10, 2011:
Rend now only has a 50% chance of working if you use Furor, so there's a choice to be made in declaring your use of Furor.
Tumescent Recovery no longer grants healing each time you take indirect damage (indirect damage was hard to calculate and the overall effect was complicated) but now lets you force rerolls on all damage taken for the duration.
Violent Onslaught now has a 'rage mode', where a troll brought to low health, or a troll that offs an enemy, can use the ability again, with a small bonus.
Feb 11, 2011:
Changed Chomp (described above, in the changelog) back to Gnaw, but changed mechanics. It now lets the Troll bite, followed by making a Strength check against the foe. Each strength check you pass deals con damage and lets you make another strength check (with a penalty on the check and more con damage) until you fail.
Dates clearly defining what's been changed and when.
Changes are fairly detailed, giving the why, and cluing people into what used to be there before it was fixed or replaced.
Everything is ordered, organized and consistent.

What Makes My Changelog Suck?

A sample of the worst sort of changelog you can do:


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Yes, that's right, no changelog at all is as bad as it gets.

But you can get something like this, too:


First change - A few typos and wordings fixed. Bash and Smash now read "Smashybash X, with the following exceptions, to avoid redundancy. Whomp and its Least form now have broken stuff deal some damage, and Whallop effects may have been changed slightly partially because I accidentally deleted the ability before making changes to it or copying it for reference. Thump no longer "permanent". Whomp (or more accurately, it's Least form) clarifies what happens to items that reach the Basher. Burrow speed now leaves a usable tunnel. Crump now requires balance, anyone who doesn't put a few ranks into that deserves what they get. A bit of text under Basher Body added to allow some speech, or at least suggestions for it. Last change I make - Clarification on damage dealing in Least Whomp. Whomp changed to free action.It's chaotic and doesn't serve to clarify much for anyone hoping to use the changelog to check something.
What if I don't have a changelog? I don't want to bother

It's your call, really, but you'll get less critiques, and those critiquing are going to be a lot less focused when they're replying to your monster. In turn, this means it takes longer before your monster passes muster and gets added to the master list. Some (yours truly included, most days) will just skip the critique half the time, if there's no changelog to work with.


Image FAQ

Image? I'm a little confused.

I'm referring to that picture that appears between the monster's name and the actual mechanical bits.
What if I can't find a good image?

Try searching on google images for the monster's name. It might also be worth checking out the monster's name in other languages like french, greek (especially for monsters borne of greek myth), latin, german, chinese or japanese (the latter two especially for oriental monsters).

That doesn't work? Search on DeviantArt. It might help to, after searching, click the list on the left for 'digital art', as that's the kind of image we want, 90% of the time.

That fails? Try asking in the thread for help.
I found an image but it's too big. How do I fix that?

Easy way: right click the image, and from the drop down list, click 'copy image location'.
Go to http://tinypic.com/ and click the bubble that says url. Ctrl-V (paste) the link you got from 'copy image location' into the box there.
Don't click 'upload now' yet! First click on the bar beside 'Resize:' and select Message Board (640x480). This is the size you want 90% of the time. Now click 'upload now' and fill in the Captcha (the 'I'm not an AI' verification thing) using the little refresh button as many times as needed if it's too hard to read. It'll take a second, and then you just copy-paste the link under 'Direct Link for Layouts' into your post.

Harder: Use Paint, or your Photoshop/Paint Shop program of choice and resize manually.

Last Resort: Ask in the thread. Hyudra is one person who can help out, but others might be available too. Just don't post the huge image (spoilered or not) and irritate everyone in the doing.

Benly
2011-02-26, 01:14 AM
Another problem I notice is it doesn't seem to get power points as it levels, meaning it can't augment its powers.

Psi-like abilities augment automatically. (SRD: "When a creature uses a psi-like ability, the power is manifested as if the creature had spent a number of power points equal to its manifester level, which may augment the power to improve its damage or save DC.")

As far as at-will abilities go, Inertial Armor at-will amounts to a scaling AC bonus, so it's not bad in and of itself. Read Thoughts at-will isn't a big deal (you can get it as a pretty low-cost magic item). Concussion Blast is a fairly strong at-will, although not completely overpowering - it'll essentially make the psurlon play a lot more warlock-y to have it.

Edit: Also, given Inertial Armor's duration is hours/level and it's personal-only, there's not really a huge difference between having several shots per day and unlimited shots after a few levels.

Mystic Muse
2011-02-26, 01:25 AM
Type: Must be a corporeal humanoid, monstrous humanoid, or giant.
Skill: Must have at least one rank in Knowledge (Arcane) or Knowledge (Religion).
Alignment: Must be evil.


First off, none of the other classes that I've seen have alignment requirements, not even demons, devils and angels. It's probably best to just scrap that requirement. Second, is this intended to be entered so early? As is, you could enter it at level 2.



Clutch of Orcus: Starting at 1st level the Hooded Pupil gains the ability to use Clutch of Orcus as a spell-like ability a number of times per day equal to half its HD. The DC is 10 + 1/2 HD + Charisma Modifier. Is this in Libris mortis? Also, it should say 1/day per 2 HD.



Drink Blood: Starting at 1st level the Hooded Pupil gains the ability to suck blood from a living victim who has damage that is yet unhealed a number of times per day equal to half its HD. It does so by making a successful grapple attack. Against a pinned or helpless foe a Hooded Pupil drinks blood dealing 2 points of constitution damage. So, the damage is only when they're pinned or helpless? Then I'd say something more like this "At 1st level, the hooded pupil gains the ability to suck blood from a living victim 1/day per 2 HD. The hooded pupil must make a successful grapple attack, and when a hooded pupil drinks an opponent's blood, it deals 2 constitution damage.
Special: This ability can only be used on a pinned or helpless opponent who has taken unhealed damage."



This is all I see at the moment. I'm kind of tired and have some other things that are taking up my attention.



Psi-like abilities augment automatically. (SRD: "When a creature uses a psi-like ability, the power is manifested as if the creature had spent a number of power points equal to its manifester level, which may augment the power to improve its damage or save DC.") Not to self, no more critiquing Psionic monsters until I learn the rules better.


Concussion Blast is a fairly strong at-will, although not completely overpowering - it'll essentially make the psurlon play a lot more warlock-y to have it. As far as I know, the warlock require that you take most of the levels in their class to qualify for the 9d6. Assuming the monster doesn't qualify as a manifesting class and took the rest of its levels in a manifesting class, it matches the warlock's damage output.


Edit: Also, given Inertial Armor's duration is hours/level and it's personal-only, there's not really a huge difference between having several shots per day and unlimited shots after a few levels. It still shouldn't be an at will ability unless it needs to be for the class to be functional. The only class I know of that has an at will ability is the lantern archon, and that class does need the ability to function, since there aren't many other ways for it to attack.

Lizard Lord
2011-02-26, 02:32 AM
Edited the Hooded Pupil and updated the changelog.
Changelog: Feb 25 2011:

Made the Hooded Pupil a level 1 class.
Got rid of Bonus Skills and Bonus Feats.
Cut the overall ability score gain in half, so that Str, Wis, and Dex are +1 at first level.

Feb 26 2011

Clarified text for Drink Blood.
Made Clutch of Orcus 1/day per 2 HD.
Removed Evil alignment from the prerequisites.
Added 4 HD to the Prerequisites.

Benly
2011-02-26, 03:54 AM
As far as I know, the warlock require that you take most of the levels in their class to qualify for the 9d6. Assuming the monster doesn't qualify as a manifesting class and took the rest of its levels in a manifesting class, it matches the warlock's damage output.

Yeah, but the warlock isn't really very good at blasting to begin with. The main concern I see with Concussion Blast is that, on a second look-over, it's no-attack no-save, which is a bit much if it's not supposed to be the focus. (If it's supposed to be the centerpiece of the class, then honestly I don't think it's too much - it's strong, but not crazy-strong.)

Looking at the psurlon entry in Lords of Madness, it says they almost exclusively fight with their telekinetic powers. If the class is supposed to capture the feel of the creature, it pretty much needs either a ton of uses or an at-will telekinetic attack power. Maybe give it a similar-but-not-identical PLA that requires an attack roll or saving throw? (Similar to how Brain In A Jar's Mental Blast doesn't exactly line up with any existing psionic power.)

Regarding counting as a manifesting class, the Psionics entry here gives it an ML equal to its HD.


It still shouldn't be an at will ability unless it needs to be for the class to be functional. The only class I know of that has an at will ability is the lantern archon, and that class does need the ability to function, since there aren't many other ways for it to attack.

Brain in a jar gets at-will mental blast. Cloud giant gets at-will Gust of Wind. Fire Elemental's Spitfire ability is at-will. Mephit gets a breath weapon on 1d4-round recharge. The first was from memory, but the others I clicked on more or less at random.

A power doesn't need to be required for basic functionality before it qualifies to be designated at-will, I'd think. Rather, the criteria should be that it doesn't unbalance the game and that it lets you actually play like the creature you're supposed to be.

Hazzardevil
2011-02-26, 03:55 AM
OBVIOUSLY.



The Death Knight is exactly the same as any other undead creature on this site.

But if it's that same then on death knight it has conflicting abilities, one says it can be ressurected and get turned into a living being before it became a death knight, what I want to know is that if you get ressurected you lose your death knight abilities, I don't know if you gain levels to replace it.

Mystic Muse
2011-02-26, 04:52 AM
Brain in a jar gets at-will mental blast. Brain in a jar is also incapable of wielding weapons, the attack can only target one creature, and it requires a will save.
Cloud giant gets at-will Gust of Wind. Yes it does. At level 7. Gust of wind also does not give you a +7 armor boost to AC at that level, and the breath has to be maintained in order for its benefit to remain.
Fire Elemental's Spitfire ability is at-will. The fire elementa's spitfire ability is also barely above a first level spell in terms of damage at level 20.
Mephit gets a breath weapon on 1d4-round recharge. yes, but it is a damage dealing ability, the subject gets a reflex save, evasion applies to it, and its once every 1d4 rounds, not at will.



A power doesn't need to be required for basic functionality before it qualifies to be designated at-will, I'd think. Rather, the criteria should be that it doesn't unbalance the game and that it lets you actually play like the creature you're supposed to be. If that were the case, I wouldn't mind, but I don't see any reason the psurlon needs inertial armor or concussive blast at will in order to function as the appropriate monster.

EDIT: The version I'm looking at doesn't have either as at wills. It has mage armor, sound burst, and detect thoughts as at wills. The giant Psurlon does, but that's a CR 11 monster as opposed to the standard Psurlon which is cr 5. Also Dsmiles, I suggest just using the SLAs given for the average Psurlon at the moment, and only adding in the others if you want to make it a level 11 class.

I'll look at it more later. Right now, I need sleep.

DiBastet
2011-02-26, 05:40 AM
Inertial armor at will is more or less the same that a scalinbg armor bonus tht saves the player to remember he's got some more four uses that last seven hours and that he can only cast on himself. Please keep it at will.

The blast is part of the lore of the monster as already mentioned, and it scales with level. it seems to me to be the base of the whole monster class, a psionic worm that fights with telepathy.

Mystic Muse
2011-02-26, 06:05 AM
Okay, apparently there's a seperate version for Expanded psionics handbook that I missed.


Inertial armor at will is more or less the same that a scalinbg armor bonus tht saves the player to remember he's got some more four uses that last seven hours and that he can only cast on himself. Please keep it at will. I'm not entirely sure what you're saying here. can you try explaining a bit better?



The blast is part of the lore of the monster as already mentioned, and it scales with level. it seems to me to be the base of the whole monster class, a psionic worm that fights with telepathy.
No, concussive blast is not a specific part of the lore, it just says "Mental blasts" I suggest changing conussive blast to its own ability for the Psurlon to kill enemies with, since it doesn't get the blast at first level anyway and putting the ability at first level. The fluff and combat strategy also seem to disagree here, as there is no mention of using a mental blast in the combat strategy for a Psurlon. Although, that may be because the original monster doesn't actually have one.

The fluff is really kind of screwy here.

EDIT: Another reason I don't like inertial armor is that, despite the class not being a melee monster, it gets a melee class type ability for an at will.