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Hyudra
2011-01-08, 09:44 PM
Community Based Monster Classes VI

For the player that wants to play D&D and be a monster, there's often a bitter pill to swallow. Maybe you're expected to deal with a kludgy level adjustment? Or perhaps the monster class they've already put out there has less-than-full HD per level? Or maybe there's just no LA or monster class option for that obscure monster you're so keen on, and you're forced to throw something together and beg your DM for its acceptance. Whatever the case, you're inevitably imbalanced one way or another. The session ends and people will often find themselves thinking things would have worked more smoothly if that monster hadn't been there to muck up the works.

No more!

In this thread, you will be able to play as any monster you want by entering these monster classes as though they were regular classes. Huge stat bonuses and screwy HD have been done away with, monsters with abilities that would throw campaigns into disarray (24/7 petrifying gaze! Woo!) have been rebalanced and made suitable for play. Monsters have been tweaked for your playing enjoyment.

If you love these monster classes, like so many do, there are two ways you can help out. You can critique or you can submit new monster classes.

The nebulous goal of this thread is to create a playable monster class for every monster in official material. Is that doable? Maybe not, but it's a good boundary to work within. For people wanting to work on monsters that aren't from official WotC material, there is a spin-off project, our homebrew edition (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180510). This spin-off project's main purpose is to make monster classes for PEACH'd homebrew monsters. Make sure to check them out!

General FAQ
Q) What monsters am I allowed to make into a monster class?
A) We encourage Homebrewers to build any monster as a playable character class. We prefer that Homebrewers build Monster Classes for monsters from published material that have not already been submitted. Before starting a new monster class, check the 'called' list (where people have called dibs on a particular monster or indicated they have started such a monster already) and the finished monster list. New homebrewers are encouraged to pick low-CR monsters, and not to attempt to tackle epic tier (20+ level) classes from the outset. Monsters from homebrew monsters should go in our homebrew section (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180510).

Q) Help! I'm taking a 1 or 2 level monster class and can't tell if it's BAB 1/2 or 3/4! (For the purposes of fractional BAB).
A) Unless otherwise noted, an undead has 1/2 BAB, while all other classes/templates have 3/4 BAB.

Q) When I increase in size does my strength increase and my dexterity decrease? If so, by how much?
A) Size increases, or decreases, do not alter ability scores in this project.

Q) What's the Caster Level for the SLAs?
A) Unless otherwise specified, the Caster level for any SLAs is equal to your total HD.

Q) What’s the Save DC for this ability?
A) Unless otherwise specified the Save DC is (10+ 1/2 HD + Charisma Modifier).

Q) What is this list of monsters?
A) The list is a collection of monster-classes that have been thoroughly P.E.A.C.H.ed, and are believed to be Play-ready. We make no claim to the perfection of a monster that has been listed, and continue to encourage comments and thoughts, even on monster-classes that have been 'finished.' Monsters that have been submitted but not added to the list are not yet fully critiqued, and you play at your own risk, using them.


The rest of the rules are split into three parts. Use Guidelines will teach you all the general rules for using these Monster Classes in a game, with specifics on changing size or multiclassing several monster classes (unintended by the project, but people are liable to try it anyways). Critique Guidelines will explain how you can help the project by commenting on other people's monsters. The Homebrew Guidelines state how you can help us by making your own Monster Class.


Use Guidelines

You take these Monster Classes just like you would any other class, such as wizard or rogue. Each level of the class develops your abilities as that particular monster. Normally you should take the first level of a Monster Class at level 1, but in some cases you might wish for your character to transform into a monster, in which case you can take it at a later level. After that, you may multiclass freely; for example one might take 1 level of troll, then 3 of barbarian, then a second level of troll, then another level of barbarian.

Upon taking the first level of a monster class, you lose all other racial traits: what this means is that while you may select a race in character creation, you lose that race when you take your first level in a monster class. You do not gain any traits or bonuses from being a race, as the first level of a Monster Class replaces both class and race. That said, the monster classes are typically a step more powerful than a standard class to make up for the lack of racial bonuses.

Growth Table
{table=head]Base Size|New Size| AC & Attack Bonuses*|Space*|Reach (Tall/Long)*|Ave. Size Incr.|Ave. Weight Incr.|Grapple Mod.|Hide Mod.
Fine|Diminutive|-4 (size)|+½’|+0’/+0’|+6”|+1/2 lb.|+4 (size)|-4 (size)
Diminutive|Tiny|-2 (size)|+1½’|+0’/+0’|+9”|+5 lbs.|+4 (size)|-4 (size)
Tiny|Small| -1 (size)|+2½’|+5’/+5’|+18”|+36 lbs.|+4 (size)|-4 (size)
Small|Medium| -1 (size)|+0’|+0’/+0’|+3’|+240 lbs.|+4 (size)|-4 (size)
Medium|Large|-1 (size)|+5’|+5’/+0’|+6’|+2000 lbs.|+4 (size)|-4 (size)
Large|Huge|-1 (size)|+5’|+5’/+5’|+12’|+8 tons|+4 (size)|-4 (size)
Huge|Gargantuan|-2 (size)|+5’|+5’/+5’|+24’|+80 tons|+4 (size)|-4 (size)
Gargantuan|Colossal|-4 (size)|+10’|+10’/+5’|+48’|+200 tons|+4 (size)|-4 (size)[/table]
Natural weapons damage increases one die size for each size increase.

Thanks to Zeta Kai for the Table.

Under normal circumstances you may not multiclass two Base Monster Classes. Below are some suggested rules should you decide to go against the grain and attempt such:

Multiple Natural Armor Bonuses
If a creature gains natural armor bonuses from multiple sources treat them according to the following chart.
{table=head]Base Natural Armor|Extra Natural Armor|Results

1/2 Con Mod|1/2 Con Mod|Full Con Mod as Natural armor Bonus

Anything higher than 1/2 Con Mod|1/2 Con Mod|+1 Nat. AC

Full Con Mod|Full Con Mod|1.5 Con Mod

Anything Higher than Full Con Mod|Full Con Mod|+2 Nat. AC

1.5 Con Mod|Anything higher than Full Con Mod|+3 Nat. AC[/table]
Creatures that gain Natural Armor from more than one monster class, that specify different Ability Scores as the base for their Natural Armor Class use whichever Ability Score is higher to derive both Natural Armor Classes, and uses the chart above.
Thanks to ChumpLump for the Table.

Multiclassing Monsters
In some cases, your DM may disregard the above rule and allow you to multiclass two base monster classes. This will likely represent some sort of hybrid character, which could be interesting. In this case, how you should play this is: For the monster class which you do not take at level one, remove the “Body of X” class feature, and use the “Body of X” for your first monster class. If you somehow take them at the same time using a variant rule like gestalt, keep the “Body of X” from the class with more levels. If they both have the same number of levels, you may choose which “Body of X” you keep.


Critique Guidelines

For any monster to be put up, it must be critiqued. By you! Here's how it works.

Monster approval is governed by a group of experienced or thoughtful homebrewers, known as the council. The council currently consists of Gorgondantess, Hyudra, and Magicyop. For any monster to be put on the list, it needs only to be approved by any two council members. The council is not a closed entity, if you wish to be a part of the council, send them a private message.

Further, the council are not the only ones who may critique-- we strongly encourage you to help others round out their monster classes. Especially if you hope to one day be on the council, you will only be chosen for the council if you critique often and critique well. Even for those not wishing to be on the council, critiquing others' work can improve the quality of your own submissions and may lead to you getting more critiques & faster approval of your own work. Someone who posts a monster and then doesn't post for two weeks while they wait for responses is going to get a less enthusiastic response than someone who is active and participating in the thread.

If you intend to comment on monster classes in any way, you should read the rules below and follow them.

Critiquing Rules
1. Respect
Respect is tantamount if you are working on this project. If you are disrespectful of a class or a homebrewer, you will face consequences within this thread. At all times we must all treat each other with respect. Ignore all other rules before you ignore this one. Never be disrespectful to another homebrewer.

Unless they're a twit. Then it's okay.

2. Contribution
Try to critique other Monster Classes whenever possible. It can be very frustrating if no one will critique your class, and if you skip over someone's class, they may feel left out. Just remember that if you help someone out by critiquing their class, they will likely help you out by critiquing your class.

How To Critique
1. Take a good long look at the class. A skimming look will not do. Read the entire thing, and try to get the image in your mind of what type of flavor the creator was going for.
2. Comment on the class as a whole before picking it apart. Give your feelings in general.
3. Note how you feel about each separate feature of the class.
4. Make sure the class is in accordance with the homebrew rules below.
5. Remember to also say what you like about the class-- try to find one nice thing to say about every monster class you critique. Every crafter has their merits.

Homebrew Guidelines
Making a Monster Class is difficult, so don't think you can whip something up in ten seconds and get it posted. It may be long and hard to perfect it, but we'll help you through it. Follow these guidelines and you'll quickly be on your way. Remember to start out with Hyudra's class template so that all classes are in a standard format.

Submission Guidelines:
Apply for a 'license' before submitting a monster. To get a license (essentially an a-ok to post monsters from one of the council members), simply PM a council member to ask for one, and let them know that you have read this post & the homebrew guide/FAQs linked immediately below this list. If you already have one or more monsters on the official list, added since the summer of 2010, you are assumed to be a license holder. This is just to avoid people making mistakes that are warned against elsewhere.
Start small. If you are new to the project, don't submit a monster with a CR (and, as a consequence, a maximum level) greater than 5. Leeway can be granted (say, a CR6-8 monster), but ask if you're really keen on doing such. Long & involved monster classes coupled with inexperienced creators make for monsters that can take two or more months to wrap up, with constant revision and critique. Not fun for anyone. Learn the ropes first.
Has it been done already? Check that the monster you want to submit is not on the finished list, the unfinished list, the abandoned list or the called monster list. There's no need to put in the work if someone else has already got the job done.
Spellcheck, format check: Read over your finished work for errors. Ideally, you want to run it through a spellchecker (either built into your browser or copy/pasted into a word document), but if you've got a good eye for errors, that can be omitted. Similarly, check the design & format of your post against other recently finished monsters (Such as Saguaro Sentinel or Troll) to see if there's something you're doing too differently.
Be prepared to revise: Monsters that are submitted have to go through a review process to ensure we're putting quality work out there. For this reason, the council members will go over monsters and suggest changes.

A Guide to Writing Monster Classes: Copy-Paste Post Template, Design Guidelines, Changelog FAQ & Image FAQ (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10450355&postcount=742)

Hyudra
2011-01-08, 09:45 PM
Base Monster Classes

A

Abishai (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9224087&postcount=41) - Gorgondantess
Aboleth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9367644&postcount=408) - by Oslecamo
Achaierai (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8926591&postcount=946) - by Gorgondantess
Air elemental (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8927531&postcount=952) - by AustontheGreat1
Allip (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9468452&postcount=105) - by Temotei
Anaxim (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9355044&postcount=378) - by Draken
Androsphynx (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9241349&postcount=136) - by Oslecamo
Angel of Decay (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8589538&postcount=496) - by Draken
Ankheg (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9917457&postcount=99) - by Kajhera
Annis Hag (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8910218&postcount=915) - by Hyudra
Anthropomorphic Animal (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9187907&postcount=1413) - by Oslecamo
Aranea (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8118735&postcount=220) - by Oslecamo
Arcadian Avenger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9591118&postcount=594) - by Zemro Shivic
Arcanaloth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9059851&postcount=1145) - by Frog Dragon
Arrow Demon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9520004&postcount=337) - by Cogidubnus
Astral Construct (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9477852&postcount=172) - by Sciencepanda
Astral Stalker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9355227&postcount=379) - by Fyrebyrd/Oslecamo
Awakened Monstrous Crab (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9355321&postcount=380) - by Flabort
Awakened Skeleton (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7966879&postcount=55) - by Oslecamo

B

Balor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7967157&postcount=58) - by Oslecamo
Basilisk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10121721&postcount=796) - by Hyudra
Beguiler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8672814&postcount=637) - by AustontheGreat1
Beholder (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8501338&postcount=416) - by AustontheGreat1
Bleakborn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9618000&postcount=669) - by CraftyCultist
Blink Dog (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8325734&postcount=330) - by AustontheGreat1
Brain in a Jar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8674054&postcount=649) - by Draken
Bralani (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9059764&postcount=1145) - by BelGareth
Bugbear (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9243419&postcount=143) - by Crafty Cultist

C

Cat, Awakened (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9959014&postcount=442) - by Gorgondantess
Centaur (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10494644&postcount=1151) - by Hyudra
Cheshire Cat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9803718&postcount=1249) - by Geckoking
Cloaker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10126561&postcount=23) - by Saidoro
Cloud Giant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9569988&postcount=533)vby Hyudra
Coatl (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9237490&postcount=117)vby Kobold-Bard
Cornugon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9201680&postcount=1446) - by Gorgondantess

D

Daeva (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9734048&postcount=1033) - by Gorgondantess
Death Drinker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9236124&postcount=90) - by Oslecamo
Death Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9405915&postcount=547) - by monkman
Djinni (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7960967&postcount=43) - by Oslecamo
Displacer Beast (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9094837&postcount=1225) - by Hyudra
Doppelganger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8160461&postcount=258) - by Oslecamo
Dracotaur (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9380867&postcount=454) - by monkman
Dragonne (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7956421&postcount=32) - by Oslecamo
Dream Larva (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9504956&postcount=215) - by Magicyop
Drider (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9630191&postcount=710) - by I_Am_An_Undead/Lix Lorn
Dryad (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8131810&postcount=243) - by Bodez/Oslecamo
Duergar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9285918&postcount=275) - by Jallorn

E

Earth Elemental (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8946427&postcount=996) - by AustontheGreat1
Entomber (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8787260&postcount=750) - by Gorgondantess
Entropic Reaper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8911700&postcount=920) - by Crafty_Cultist
Erinyes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8024351&postcount=144) - by Oslecamo
Ettin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9471641&postcount=121) - by Temotei

F

Firbolg (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8588088&postcount=490) - by Oslecamo
Fire Elemental (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9234777&postcount=82) - by AustontheGreat1
Flind Gnoll (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9258321&postcount=184) - by Gorgondantess
Force Golem (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8983373&postcount=1020) - by Gorgondantess
Forest Troll (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9466013&postcount=82) - by Volt
Fire Giant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8936547&postcount=968) - by Hyudra
Frost Giant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8591700&postcount=510) - by Hyudra

G

Gelatinous Cube (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9385418&postcount=467) - by Kobold-Bard
Ghaele Eladrin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9212463&postcount=10) - by Oslecamo
Ghost (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8112651&postcount=215) - by Oslecamo
Ghoul (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8164244&postcount=269) - by CraftY_Cultist/Oslecamo
Gibbering Mouther (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9925238&postcount=180) - by Betropper
Githzerai/Githyanki (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9615407&postcount=659) - by Chumplump
Glass Golem (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9550833&postcount=480) - by Cogidubnus
Gloom (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8017974&postcount=129) - by Oslecamo
Gnoll (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8166791&postcount=274) - by Oslecamo
Goristro (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9463971&postcount=19) - by Monkman
Gray Jester (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7988336&postcount=92) - by Oslecamo
Green Hag (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9405322&postcount=539) - by ChumpLump
Grimlock (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7966772&postcount=54) - by Oslecamo
Griffon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9074825&postcount=1170) - by AustontheGreat1
Gynosphynx (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8574795&postcount=460) - by Volt

H

Harpy (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8895469&postcount=872) - by Hyudra
Hell Hound (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9094826&postcount=1224) - by Crafty Cultist
Hill Giant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8476867&postcount=360) - by Hyudra
Hound Archon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7987311&postcount=89) - by Oslecamo
Hook Horror (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8940925&postcount=984) - by Frog Dragon
Hydra (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9338086&postcount=357) - by Oslecamo

I

Imp (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9047328&postcount=1087) - by Hyudra
Iron Golem (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8982582&postcount=1018) - by Gorgodantess

J

Janni (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9242948&postcount=141) - by Kobold-Bard

K

Kaorti (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8843416&postcount=809) - by Crafty Cultist
Karsite (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10347003&postcount=426) - by Kobold Bard
Kuo-Toa (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9081372&postcount=1195) - by Hyudra
Kython (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9264340&postcount=217) - by Crafty_Cultist
Kyton (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9392273&postcount=512) - by ChumpLump

L

Lammasu (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9951605&postcount=371) - by Kobold-Bard
Lantern Archon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9147212&postcount=1301) - by Volt
Leonal (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9059764&postcount=1145) - by BelGareth
Lillend (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8097854&postcount=208) - by Oslecamo
Locathah (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10265374&postcount=217) - by Gorgondantess
Lodestone Marauder (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10262500&postcount=196) - by ScionoftheVoid


M

Manticore (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10000950&postcount=582) - by Hyudra
Marilith (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8132375&postcount=246) - by Oslecamo
Marrash (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10308045&postcount=324) - by Zemro Shivic
Marrutact (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9029376&postcount=1044) - by Gorgodantess
Marraenoloth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9231506&postcount=69) - by Gorgondantess
Medusa (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10343087&postcount=418) - by Hyudra
Mimic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9464961&postcount=60) - by Sciencepanda
Mind Flayer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7947714&postcount=13) - by Oslecamo
Mindflayer, Psionic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9159107&postcount=1357) - by Gorgondantess
Minotaur (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10295137&postcount=275) - by Hyudra
Mephit (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8678862&postcount=664) - by Hyudra
Mezzoloth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9015485&postcount=1034) - by Frog Dragon
Monstrous Spider (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10404448&postcount=542) - by Hyudra
Movanic Deva (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9430145&postcount=596) - by Oslecamo
Mummy (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7977252&postcount=82) - by Oslecamo
MurderJack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9236908&postcount=102) - by FlickerDart/Oslecamo

N

Nashrou (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9525115&postcount=390) - by Makiru
Nerra (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8492973&postcount=390) - by Draken
Nimblewright (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9471896&postcount=123) - by Temotei
Nixie (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8034400&postcount=162) - by Oslecamo
Nycaloth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9044409&postcount=1060) - by Frog Dragon
Nymph (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8167378&postcount=278) - by Bodez

O

Ogre Mage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7951939&postcount=29) - by Oslecamo
Ogre (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8789542&postcount=758) - by Hyudra
Owlbear (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9367442&postcount=407) - by Kobold-Bard

P

Pegasus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9235441&postcount=86) - by FirebirdFlying
Phasm (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8055617&postcount=172) - by Oslecamo
Phoelarch (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9516820&postcount=326) - by AustontheGreat1
Phoenix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9633413&postcount=722) - by Oslecamo/AustontheGreat1
Pit fiend (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7976670&postcount=80) - by Oslecamo
Pixie (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8592607&postcount=512) - by Aranii
Planetouched (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9041408&postcount=1052) - by Gorgodantess
Pseudo-Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9229026&postcount=55) - by Kobold-Bard
Purple Worm (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9604492&postcount=638) - by Hyudra

Q

R

Rakshasa (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7956421&postcount=32) - by Oslecamo
Rakshasa, Naztharune (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9257676&postcount=178) - by Gorgondantess
Ravid (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9234635&postcount=81) - by Kobold-Bard
Red slaad (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7957540&postcount=37) - by Oslecamo
Redcap (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8603621&postcount=534) - by Draken
Reptilians (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9080902&postcount=1191) - by Gorgondantess
Reth Dekala (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8881599&postcount=835) - by Gorgondantess
Roving Mauler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9477550&postcount=171) - by Makiru
Rukanyr (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9252804&postcount=161) - by Makiru
Rust Monster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9402966&postcount=534) - by Kobold-Bard

S

Saguaro Sentinel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10405090&postcount=545) - by Gorgondantess
Sahuagin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9072388&postcount=1164) - by Crafty Cultist
Salamander (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9234376&postcount=77) - by Oslecamo
ScorpionFolk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8885793&postcount=839) - by Frog Dragon
Sea Hag (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9405362&postcount=542) - by ChumpLump
Shadowperson (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9588719&postcount=590) - by AustontheGreat1
Shaedling (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9660218&postcount=805) - by Monkman/Gorgondantess
Silthilar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8913176&postcount=924) - by AustonTheGreat1
Skeroloth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10253686&postcount=172) - by Frog Dragon
Slaad (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8568028&postcount=445) - by Trenelus
Solamith (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9773475&postcount=1173) - by Makiru
Son/Daughter of Silence (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9219759&postcount=37) - by Oslecamo
Soulspark (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9496930&postcount=209) - by Niezck
Succubus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7951939&postcount=29) - by Oslecamo
Spell Weaver (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9262850&postcount=196) - by Winter King
Stone giant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8589236&postcount=495) - by Hyudra
Sverfineblin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9479186&postcount=185) - by ChumpLump

T

Tarrasque (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9148817&postcount=1307) - by Oslecamo
Tengu (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9197614&postcount=1434) - by Oslecamo
Thorn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9876046&postcount=87) - by Zemro Shivic
Thri-Kreen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8017743&postcount=128) - by Oslecamo
Titan (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9473369&postcount=145) - by Kobold Bard
Treant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9386283&postcount=485) - by Niezck
Troll (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10262043&postcount=191) - By Hyudra
Tsochar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9226721&postcount=48) - by Oslecamo

U

Unicorn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9235441&postcount=86) - by FirebirdFlying

V

Valkyrie (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9771437&postcount=1154) - By Niezck
Vargouille (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7966939&postcount=56) - by Oslecamo
Vasuthant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7974321&postcount=75) - by Oslecamo
Vrock (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8940273&postcount=981) - by Gorgondantess

W

Water Elemental (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9465968&postcount=77) - by AustontheGreat1
Wight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9238635&postcount=127) - by Crafty Cultist
Wild Hunt (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9399221&postcount=519) - by Oslecamo
Will-O-Wisp (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9254674&postcount=170) - by Kobold-Bard
Winter Wolf (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8890538&postcount=856) - by Frog Dragon
Wyvern (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9080278&postcount=1186) - by Hyudra

X

Xill (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8078928&postcount=203) - by ScionoftheVoid

Y

Yuan-ti (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8017736&postcount=127) - by Oslecamo

Z

Zelekhut(inevitable) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7951028&postcount=26) - by Oslecamo
Zern (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8903096&postcount=899) - by AustontheGreat1

True Dragons:
Blue Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7941947&postcount=2) - by Oslecamo
Bronze Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9261499&postcount=189) - [b]by Gorgondantess/Oslecamo
Fang dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9317804&postcount=320) - by unknown
Golden Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9260930&postcount=187) - by Oslecamo
Green Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9260954&postcount=188) - by un_known
Red Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165439&postcount=1) - by Oslecamo
Purple Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8927061&postcount=949) - by Oslecamo
Pyroclastic dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9264141&postcount=212) - by Kyuubi/Oslecamo
Silver Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8002450&postcount=108) - by Oslecamo
Styx Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9905425&postcount=158) - by Kyuubi/Oslecamo
White Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9324083&postcount=355) - by un_known
Wing Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7962320&postcount=47) - by Oslecamo




Prestige Monster Classes

C

Creature of Legend (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9077277&postcount=1173) - by Hyudra

D

Death Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9405915&postcount=547) - by Monkman

E

Evolved Undead (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9511014&postcount=240) - by Gorgondantess

F

Feral Creature (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9472386&postcount=132) - by Niezck

G
Golden Protector (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9951670&postcount=373) - by Kobold-Bard
Gravetouched Ghoul (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9567011&postcount=524) - by Hyudra

Half-

Half-Celestial (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8538254&postcount=434) - by Crafty Cultist
Half-Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8159828&postcount=257) - by Oslecamo
Half-Fey (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9538153&postcount=443) - by Kobold-Bard
Half-Fiend (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8535660&postcount=428) - by Crafty Cultist
Half-Golem (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9157221&postcount=1345) - by Oslecamo
Half-Illithid (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8842357&postcount=807) - by Crafty Cultist
Half-Troll (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8911522&postcount=918) - by flabort

H

Horrid Monster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9520824&postcount=353) - by Hyudra

K

Kython, Impaler and Slaymaster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9273463&postcount=252) - by Crafty Cultist
Kython, Slaughterking (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9281500&postcount=270) - by Crafty Cultist


L

Lich (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8535643&postcount=427) - by Crafty Cultist

P

Phrenic Creature (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9910955&postcount=8) - by Niezck

S

Saint (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9660268&postcount=810) - by Magicyop
Spellwarped Creature (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8911423&postcount=916) - by Frog Dragon/Oslecamo
Swarmshifter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9915101&postcount=36) - by TheGeckoKing


U

Ulitharid (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9047316&postcount=1086) - by Oslecamo
Unholy Scion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9581603&postcount=559) - by Monkman

V

Vampire (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8056982&postcount=173) - by Oslecamo

W

War Troll (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9405329&postcount=540) - by Monkman
Winged Template (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9472231&postcount=125) - by Niezck

Therianthropes:

Wereconstrictor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9176252&postcount=1395) - by ChumpLump
Werecheetah (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9224377&postcount=44) - by ChumpLump
Wereleopard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9224377&postcount=44) - by ChumpLump
Werelion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9224377&postcount=44) - by ChumpLump
Wereraptor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9915168&postcount=39) - by Betropper
Wererat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9176252&postcount=1395) - by ChumpLump
Werespider Hunter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9172249&postcount=1384) - by ChumpLump
Werespider Weaver (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9172249&postcount=1384) - by ChumpLump
Weretiger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9224377&postcount=44) - by ChumpLump
Wereviper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9176252&postcount=1395) - by ChumpLump

Hyudra
2011-01-08, 09:46 PM
Unfinished Monster Classes
{table=head]Monster|Council Approvals|Notes

Gray Jester (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10051752&postcount=693) ||Abandoned 2-12-2011, re-adopted by original creator 3-23-2011.

Pandorym (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9943992&postcount=295)||

Jovoc (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9955384&postcount=425)|Hyudra|

Gargoyle (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9959382&postcount=443)|Hyudra|

Remorhaz (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9980073&postcount=505)||

Vivisector (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10219990&postcount=129)|Hyudra|

Razor Boar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10227868&postcount=139)|Hyudra|

Ettercap (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10249821&postcount=152)||

Aboleth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10367328&postcount=473)||Replacing old Aboleth with one that meets current standards.

Ragewalker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10374313&postcount=495)||

Phase Wasp (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10399951&postcount=524)|Hyudra|

Violet Fungus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10400122&postcount=526)|Hyudra|

Chuul (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10414321&postcount=585)||

Hooded Pupil (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10449208&postcount=711)||

Psurlon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10449916&postcount=735)||

Phantom (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10461724&postcount=881)||

Unbodied (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10469494&postcount=906)||

Greenbound Creature (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10472865&postcount=920)||Also Greenbound Paragon, Plant Symbionts.

Drow (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10473291&postcount=924)|Hyudra|

Justice Archon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10474880&postcount=941)|Hyudra|

Coure Eladrin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10480332#post10480332)|Hyudra|

Half Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10494357&postcount=1145)||NinethePuma's version.

Grick (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10509720&postcount=1208)||

Assassin Vine (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10527069&postcount=1249)||

Sharakim (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10527113&postcount=1250)||

Frostwind Virago (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10568242&postcount=1312)||List of powers to be found Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10568249&postcount=1313)

Garngrath (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10576259&postcount=1320)||

Brass Golem (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10588318&postcount=1361)||

Half-Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10609763&postcount=1399)||Gorgondantess' version.[/table]

Abandoned Monsters

The following table lists monsters deemed 'abandoned', either voluntarily ("I'm not going to finish this") or due to inactive posting/lack of responses to critiques. If you wish to reclaim a monster of yours that was abandoned, inform a mod. If you wish to adopt a monster abandoned by another, attempt contacting the original poster, then seek council permission. If deemed appropriate by the council, depending on the monster and how close it is to being done, you should then post in the main thread expressing your interest to adopt the monster and what your plans are for it (starting fresh, just finishing what's there, what kind of abilities you're thinking of & what sort of fixes you're pondering). If someone else wishes to adopt the monster too, you should work out an agreement or compromise, or seek the input of others as to who has the stronger ideas. Once that is done, you may pick up that monster and make any changes necessary to get it up to your & our standards.



{table=head]Monster|Abandoned On|Notes
Yellow Musk Creeper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9924181&postcount=152)|12-13-10|Adopted by creator again 02-08-10, re-abandoned after no activity in 9 days.
Living Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9764043&postcount=1133)|12-14-10|Adopted by creator again 02-08-10, re-abandoned after no activity in 9 days.
Animated Object (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9867627&postcount=50)|12-16-10|Adopted by creator again 02-08-10, re-abandoned after no activity in 9 days.
Wendigo (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9981253&postcount=518)|12-21-10|Adopted by creator again 02-08-10, re-abandoned after no activity in 9 days.
Werescorpion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9932318&postcount=207)|12-09-10|
Maug (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9725817&postcount=1014)|12-10-10|
Death Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9725817&postcount=1014)|12-10-10|
Grell (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9883082&postcount=95)|12-12-10|
Demilich (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9954097&postcount=400)|12-17-10|
Half-Elemental (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10021991&postcount=640)|12-22-10|
Flesh Golem (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10073494&postcount=714)|1-08-11|
Dwarf Ancestor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9967230&postcount=491)|1-12-11|
Storm Giant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10166809&postcount=99)|1-23-11|
Corrupted Creature (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10331050&postcount=365)|2-08-11|
Hellfire Wyrm (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10271903&postcount=254)|2-17-11|
Briarvex (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10000991&postcount=583)|2-24-11|Abandoned 12-22-10, adopted by original creator 2-24-11.
Black Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10246297&postcount=149)|2-26-11|Presumably being reworked from the ground up.
Umber Hulk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9923822&postcount=149)|-|Voluntarily Abandoned, Flavor/Fluff Mismatch
Nightwalker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10297554&postcount=289)|-|Voluntarily Abandoned, Leaving GitP
Ragewalker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10021982&postcount=639)|-|Voluntarily Abandoned, No time to finish
Lemure (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10361230&postcount=457)|-|Voluntarily Abandoned. Was a creative experiment that failed.
Quasi-God (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10077255&postcount=719)|-|Creator resigning from project.
Rast (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10402041&postcount=530)|-|Creator resigning from project.
Magmin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10406969&postcount=556)|-|Creator resigning from project.
Half-Golem (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179202)|-|Leaving as purview of the homebrew forum.

[/table]

Called Monsters
Hagumemnon(Protean): Magicyop
Elder Evil: Magicyop
Karrash: Zemro Shivic
Wild Hunt Revision: Gorgondantess
Ethergaunt: Gorgondantess
Ultroloth: Gorgondantess?/TheGeckoKing?
Varakhat: TheGeckoKing
Vistani: Chambers
Efreeti: Darthteej
Umber Hulk: Gorgondantess
Leucrotta: Hyudra
Homonculus: Mootoall
Frostwind Virago: Hyudra

Hyudra
2011-01-08, 09:47 PM
Reserved post for additional details, new rules, news & featured monsters.

Previous Threads:

First Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142724)

Second Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165439)

Third Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170469)

Fourth Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177708)

Fifth Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178692)

EdroGrimshell
2011-01-08, 10:19 PM
Request for a class to create unique outsiders.

Hyudra
2011-01-08, 10:33 PM
That's not really in the scope of the project, EdroGrimshell. If you'll note in the first post:
"The nebulous goal of this thread is to create a playable monster class for every monster in official material. For people wanting to work on monsters that aren't from official WotC material, there is a spin-off project, our homebrew edition (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180510).

To everyone else: I've updated the list of unfinished monsters & called monsters. I'll wait until Gorgondantess is around with a minute or three to spare, and then we'll come to a conclusion about the monsters currently on the list (several are done, IMHO, but we haven't been able to do a proper council vote with MagicYop's unexplained absence).

The Antigamer
2011-01-09, 12:06 AM
You already noted the new unfinished monsters, I didn't catch anything you missed, but maybe somehow fit in the monstrous feats (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10041982&postcount=663) KB did (as well as the ones Gorgon did (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10042847&postcount=672)) in? Unless they're not in the scope of the project?

Dracolich, Shade Template (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9694700&postcount=924), the original true dragons, shadow dragon, Yith Hound, Shadow Mastiff , and Vol were all requested.

Mystic Muse
2011-01-09, 12:13 AM
I can't recall the advice for Illurien, I didn't see it in the unfinished monsters list, and I'm not sure where the advice is so I'm reposting her.

Illurien


HD:d8
{table]Level|Bab|Fort|Ref|Will|Feature
1|+ 0|+ 0|+0 | +2 | Body of knowledge, Tempest lash, +1 Intelligence
2|+1 |+ 0|+0 | +3 | Improved Body of Knowledge, SLAs
3|+ 2|+ 1|+ 1| +3 | fast healing, Spell resistance, +1 intelligence
4|+ 3|+ 1|+1 | +4 | Storm of visions, Home plane, Infinite knowledge, SLAs, +1 strength
5|+ 3|+ 1|+ 1| +4 | fly speed, combat expertise +1 intelligence
6|+ 4|+ 2|+2 | +5 | Damage reduction, SLAs, +1 strength,
7|+ 5|+ 2|+2 | + 5| Improved infinite knowledge, Greater body of knowledge, +1 intelligence
8|+ 6|+ 2|+2 | +6 | Improved Storm of visions, cloud of Foresight, SLAs +1 strength
9|+ 6|+ 3|+ 3| +6 | Knowledge devotion, Growth, +1 intelligence
10|+7 |+ 3|+3 | +7 | greater infinite knowledge, improved tempest lash, +1 intelligence
11|+ 8| + 3|+ 3| +7 | Blindsight, Perfected body of knowledge, +1 intelligence
12|+ 9|+ 4|+4 | +8 | Rejuvenation, SLAs, +1 Strength
13|+ 9|+ 4|+4 | +8 | Perfect Infinite Knowledge, Perfected tempest lash, +1 intelligence
14|+ 10|+ 4|+4 | +9 |SLAs, Perfected storm of visions,
15|+ 11|+5 |+ 5| +9 | Additional SLAs+1 Strength, +1 intelligence
[/table]
Skills: 8+ int mod per level. All skills are class skills

Proficiencies: Illurien isn't proficient with any weapons except her tempest lash and isn't proficient with any armor.


Features:
Body of Knowledge: Illurien loses all other racial traits and gains outsider traits, (Basically darkvision 60 feet), Base move speed of 40 feet, and she gains the tempest lash ability. She is incapable of speaking but has telepathy out to 10 feet per HD.

Tempest lash: Illurien can use tempest lash as a standard action. The damage is equal to 1d8+strength modifier and she gets iterative attacks with the ability based on her BAB. At 10th level The lash deals 1d4 intelligence damage on a hit and she gains 5 temporary hit points for each point of intelligence she drains. These temporary hit points can not exceed her total hit points and go away at the end of the encounter.

If Illurien multiclasses for an arcane class she can count her levels in the Illurien class as levels of that class for purposes of CL and for the purposes of learning new spells and getting new spell slots. So for example, if Illurien takes 3 levels of her class and takes 1 level of sorcerer, she could choose to have CL 4, get 3 2nd level spell slots, 1 1st level spell slot, 1 2nd level spell known and 1 0th level spell known. She wouldn't get the spells known and spell slots of a sorcerer 3 however. She would get the familiar ability, but Illurien levels wouldn't count for it.

Strength of body and mind: Illurien gains a +1 bonus to her intelligence score at levels 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 and 15 for a total of +8 to her intelligence score at 15th level and a +1 bonus to strength at 4, 8, 12 and 15, for a total of +4 at level 15

SLAs: At 2nd level Illurien gains the spells detect magic, read magic and identify as SLAs, at 4th level she gains locate object and detect thoughts, at 6th level she gains arcane sight and tongues, at 8th level, she gains Scrying and locate creature, at 10th level she gains contact other plane, At 12th level she gains legend lore and Analyze Dweomer, and at 14th she gains plane shift and greater Teleport 1/day per 5 HD. Plane shift upgrades to greater plane shift at 20 HD. The other mentioned SLAs are usable 1/day per spell level HD.

Improved Body of Knowledge: At second level Illurien gains a resistance to electricity, and a bonus on saves against poison, paralysis, and disease equal to her HD. In addition, she gains the evil subtype which applies to all Natural/wielded weapons for the purpose of overcoming DR and she simply needs to trance instead of sleep.

Fast healing: At 3rd level Illurien gains fast healing 1. This amount increases by 1 every 3 HD.

Spell resistance: At 3rd level Illurien gains spell resistance equal to her HD+11

Storm of visions SU:The watery droplets that surround Illurien are the collected fragments of the knowledge she has accumulated. At 4th level, at the end of Each of Illurien's turns each enemy within 30 feet of her must succeed on a will save equal to 10+Half HD+ intelligence modifier or be dazzled for one round. A successful save negates the effect but each enemy in the area must make a new saving throw at the end of each of Illurien's turns. This is a mind affecting ability.

Home Plane: At 4th level, Illurien gains her own “Ivory tower”, known as the Aethenaum Nefarious. The Aethenaum Nefarious is a library filled to the brim with forgotten knowledge and dark secrets. This library is located in the Outlands but can be reached by plane shift. the library can be expanded with extra rooms to help Illurien in her search for knowledge and she gains an extra room every 4 HD In addition, the library grants a +1 bonus to knowledge checks per 2 HD and at 15th level, those within the library and their equipment become immune to all forms of divination, as if they did not exist. Illurien is also able to transport to her library as a full round action twice a day and bring her allies along with her. This place cannot be entered by anyone Illurien does not allow within but it can be destroyed. (Need help in determining how to be destroyed.)

choosable rooms (Need more)

Divination room: This room contains the normal material for a scrying spell and extra materials to make sure divination spells succeed. The room grants a +1 bonus to checks related to divination spells for each 4 HD Illurien has. In addition, at 10th level, Illurien can make a caster level check against the caster level of an effect preventing divination working. This does not work against foes who's divination immunity has no caster level behind it. Her caster level is equal to her hit dice.

Item creation room: This room grants 1 item creation feat for every time this option is taken. At 10th level, Illurien doesn't need to know the spells required for an item, as long as she meets the required caster level. Her caster level is equal to her hit dice.

Rest/Sustenance room:This room acts almost as a ring of sustenance for anyone within. The room expands to fit the size of her allies as needed and provides sustenance for any party member. In addition, party members need sleep or trance for only 2 hours while within the room.


Infinite Knowledge: Illurien can now use all that knowledge she stole to good use. A number of times per day equal to her intelligence modifier (minimum of 1), she may expend a move action to make a knowledge check against whatever she may be facing: local for monstrous humanoids, arcane for magical beasts and dragons, Architecture/Engineering for constructs, dungeoneering for aberrations & oozes, the planes for outsiders & elementals, nature for animals & fey, nobility & royalty for humanoids, and geography for giants. The DC of this knowledge check is 15. If she succeeds, all allies within 30 feet gain a +1 bonus to attacks against the creature (or creatures, if there are multiple creatures of the same race). This bonus increases by an additional 1 for every 10 points Illurien succeeds by.
Starting at 7th level, Illurien may instead grant a +1 bonus to saves against the creature's abilities, plus an additional one for every 10 points Illurien succeeds by.
Starting at 10th level, Illurien may instead grant +1d6 damage to attacks against the creature, plus an additional 1d6 for every 10 points Illurien succeeds by.
Starting at 13th level, Illurien may instead grant a +1 bonus to AC against the creature's attacks, plus an additional one for every 10 points she succeeds by.
Starting at 16th level, Illurien may instead grant a +1 bonus to DCS of any ability used against the creature, plus an additional 1 for every 10 points she succeeds by.

Flight: at 5th level Illurien gains a fly speed of 40 feet and good maneuverability. The speed increases by 20 for every 5 HD afterward.

Combat expertise: At 5th level, Illurien gains combat expertise as a bonus feat. At 10th level the dodge bonus also applies to the miss chance of cloud of foresight. If Illurien already has Combat advantage at this point, she can instead choose any feat from the fighter's list of bonus feats. The bonus to the miss chance at 10th level applies either way.

Damage reduction (EX): At 6th level Illurien gains damage reduction good equal to half her hit dice.

Greater body of knowledge(EX): At 7th level, Illurien only needs to trance for 4 hours, is immune to poison and disease and gains a bonus on saves against the fatigue and exhausted conditions equal to her HD. In addition, she can take 10 on knowledge checks even in a threatening situation.

Cloud of Foresight SU: At 8th level, drawing on her boundless lore, Illurien uses her opponent's tendencies and desires against them. This causes her opponents to have a 10% miss chance against her. The miss chance increases by 10% every time she takes another 2 levels in the class for a total of 40% at 14th level.

Improved storm of visions: At 9th level, the effect changes from dazzled to dazed and the effect lasts an additional round.

Knowledge devotion: At 9th level Illurien can gain the benefits of Infinite knowledge as well.

Growth: At 9th level Illurien grows to large size.

Mind sight: At 11th level, Illurien gains the ability known as mind sight with a range equal to her telepathy range. This ability allows Illurien to determine which square any being with an intelligence score of 1 or higher is located in. Illurien can also determine the being's type and intelligence score. This takes no extra action. If a creature has concealment, or total concealment, they still retain them.

Perfected body of knowledge: At 11th level, Illurien no longer needs to sleep, is immune to effects that would make her fall asleep, and to the fatigued and exhausted conditions..

Rejuvenation: When Illurien would “die” she instead regenerates within the Aethenaum Nefarious in 2 days. However, she loses one level each time this happens. This ability comes in at level 12.

Perfected tempest Lash: At 13th level, Illurien can drain XP from her enemies. This XP is equal to the enemy's hit dice and she gains this with each hit of her tempest lash. This XP goes to a separate pool from her leveling XP and cannot be shifted over. This XP can be used for crafting items, casting spells, or some other such purpose. This XP can not exceed Illurien's current hit dice multiplied by 100

Perfected storm of visions At 14th level, The DC of storm of visions increases by 2, Dazed upgrades to stunned, and the ability loses the mind affecting tag.

Improved SLAs: At 15th level, Illurien can add 2 spells of levels 1-6 from the wizard/sorcerer list to her list of SLAs. The amount of times she can cast these per day are equal to 1/spell level HD.

bladesmith
2011-01-09, 12:39 AM
Hey, if you guys wouldn't mind throwing some ideas out for the Remorhaz, that would be cool too. I've kinda hit a mental block with it. Also, I'll try and have a review or two up by tomorrow. I've been slacking on that.

Hyudra
2011-01-09, 01:19 AM
You already noted the new unfinished monsters, I didn't catch anything you missed, but maybe somehow fit in the monstrous feats (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10041982&postcount=663) KB did (as well as the ones Gorgon did (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10042847&postcount=672)) in? Unless they're not in the scope of the project?

Dracolich, Shade Template (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9694700&postcount=924), the original true dragons, shadow dragon, Yith Hound, Shadow Mastiff , and Vol were all requested.

Added the feats as 'other unfinished/uncritiqued content'.

Added more of the requested monsters.


Illurien

Needs an image.
Bleh, 15 level class.
Source? Without it, can't look at the original monster for flavor & details. I had to look it up.
Telepathy out to 10' per HD is kind of crippling. That means not being able to talk to other people in the same room as you.
All skills should not be class skills. That gives you access to iajitsu focus, hypnotism, craft dreamweave item, and so on... skills with concrete in-game benefits that can really power you up. Also, it's the factotum's schtick that you're messing with.
The numbers in the table (particularly BAB) are screwy. Some are like +1 and others are like + 3 (with a space). It needs tidying.
Needs more flavor text in ability descriptions, so we've got a better idea of what's going on and why. You mention a tempest lash, but I frankly don't have a clue what that is, especially because there's no source listed.
I get the impression I already reviewed this, which is strange because some of the stuff I'm seeing looks like stuff I would've caught, before.
Tempest Lash:
The healing is perhaps a bit much. Consider that you're potentially delivering two 1d8+Str attacks, dealing 2d4 str mod damage and gaining 10-20 hp on each attack.
SLAs:
State, as you describe each level of SLAs, how many times they can be used a day. It's very unclear, as it's currently stated.
"The other mentioned SLAs are usable 1/day per spell level HD." is awkwardly worded.
Improved Body of Knowledge:
"purpose of overcoming DR and she simply needs to trance instead of sleep. " is weirdly worded. The trance thing is a thought of its own. End the sentence after detailing DR and then bring up trances after that, in a sentence of its own.
Storm of visions SU:
Ability needs a proper name, with capitalization (and if you're detailing (su), (ex), etc, do it consistently and use the standard formatting).
You mention watery droplets. I'm confused. Describe the abilities in a way that people who haven't seen the monster have an idea of what they're about.
"At 4th level, at the end of Each of Illurien's turns..." each should not be capitalized.
I don't like abilities that add a lot of rolling & bog down combat. Figure that you're 4th level. You've got 15 levels to gain to reach 20th level. To gain a level, assuming 4 standard, fair encounters a day, one must pass through 13.3 encounters. Right?

So you're talking ~200 encounters to reach through level 20. Over those 200 encounters, in every single round, pretty much every enemy is going to have to make a will save or be dazed. Pass or fail, you're going to have to make the save again at the end of her next turn... that's a crapton of rolling. Depending on the number of rounds in the average combat, the frequency of combat based encounters and the number of enemies, you're talking 500-1000 will saves being thrown out there.
Home Plane:
I don't like that you named it for the player. Let the players name their own dark library.
Being able to transport to the library is fine. Not having a way to transport back is... inconvenient.
This strikes me as an ability fitting for a much higher level than 4th.
Infinite Knowledge:
Seems like a kind of overpowered version of Knowledge Devotion. The problem with skill-based abilities is that they either don't work at all (truenaming) or they're too easy to pump, granting ridiculous bonuses.
The 13th level bonus sucks. A bonus to AC granted around the time that AC really has started to decline in usefulness. I can't see smart players using it.
The 16th level bonus is weird and ill-fitting. I can't think of a better way to say it. "DCS" is confusing (Save DCs would be better, but still awkward), and there's really no precedent for an ability like it. Replace it?
Combat Expertise:
The thing about combat expertise is that, as a feat that's a prerequisite for so many other feats, it's one you take early or you just don't take it at all. As such, it is out of place at 5th level.
"If Illurien already has Combat advantage at this point, she can" ...
What's combat advantage?
You reference cloud of foresight before the ability is granted, which is confusing. Consider moving the dodge bonus details to the cloud of foresight entry instead.
Damage Reduction:
"At 6th level Illurien gains damage reduction good equal to half her hit dice." -- I'd reword, as it's just clunky in the underlined part there. Look at other monsters for how they worded the DR entries.
Cloud of Foresight SU:
Ability name needs fixing.
"The miss chance increases by 10% every time she takes another 2 levels in the class for a total of 40% at 14th level. " - wording is awkward in the underlined part there.
So... I have 40% chance to dodge any attack at 14th level. I've also got the dodge bonus from combat expertise, so that's... 5%? 45% chance to avoid any attack. I'm also getting +5 to AC in addition to my existing bonus, so my AC is maybe going to prevent what? One in five attacks on its own? Seems a little much, numberwise. It strikes me that with some other abilities and/or concealment benefits, you're nigh untouchable (Say, warlock's entropic shield, as a start).
Improved Storm of Visions
Capitalize every letter of an ability name. So instead of "Improved storm of visions" it would be "Improved Storm of Visions".
I've stated why I don't like Storm of Visions, Dazed is actually a pretty crippling condition tacked onto the insane number of rolls being performed.
Knowledge Devotion:
Capitalize ability names.
What would happen if I, as an Illurien with skills stacked to maximize knowledge, huge int, int bonuses from levels in the class, item familiars granting +20 or more to the knowledge skill of my choice, picked up the Knowledge Devotion feat in addition to the bonuses granted here? Stacking! Too easy/intuitive to abuse.
Mind Sight:
Capitalize ability names.
Perfected Body of Knowledge:
Capitalize ability names.
"and to the fatigued and exhausted conditions.. " -- isn't a complete thought. Two periods at the end there.
Rejuvenation:
Kind of crippling if you don't necessarily get a choice in the matter. If I'm the BBEG trying to defeat the party, I'm going to kill the Illurien over and over, and run away after each time.
Perfected Tempest Lash:
I complained about the number of rolls with storm of knowledge, and I complained about the number of things that tempest lash got, goodie wise. I fear the experience tracking makes a full attack routine by the Illurien into a bit of a headache (You're rolling vs. ac, doing damage, recording damage to the monster on the sheet, rolling int damage, recording changes to the monster on the sheet, adjusting stats where needed, calculating hp gain, adding to your temporary hp pool, calculating XP damage, adding to your special XP pool... and you're doing all this potentially twice a round, several rounds in a row.
Perfected Storm of Visions:
Capitalize ability names.
Needs a bracket between the ability name and ability description.
Text is a little rushed.
Improved SLAs:
Too vague, a little rushed.
I can add, what? Two spells, period? Or two spells for each level?
The number of times it's usable per day is awkwardly worded.
Overall, needs polish:
Ability names should be bolded, capitalized, there should be consistency with use of (Su) and (Ex) throughout all abilities or none, there should be a degree of flavor text, the text is a little rushed and feels like shorthand more than proper descriptions made for readability.

Mystic Muse
2011-01-09, 01:29 AM
I'm going to bed soon, so I'll address your points tomorrow. Thanks for the feedback though.

Gorgondantess
2011-01-09, 04:16 AM
Manticore:

Might want to reread the stuff under the spoiler in spike volley, clean it up. There's a couple discrepancies from the editing.
Also, I was looking at some other monsters while reading this, and I was thinking... how would this stuff affect an iron golem? The spikes, I mean. Just think about it.

Skewer salvo: whuh! Again, the iron golem example: at 7 HD, you could just immobilize an enemy with one successful set of attacks if you took hooked spikes, so long as they had a move speed of 20' or less. The only thing that kept these spike abilities balanced is that it took so long to lay down more than a couple on an enemy. It would probably be better if rather than doing something like "max spikes/2", you did a subtraction. So, by 15th level, yeah, you're going to be launching a lot of spikes. This is a good thing. But 4 a round at level 7 is brutal- let the increased spikes start late and then increase at a good clip. Simply saying "2 spikes or max number of spikes minus 5, whichever is greater" should suffice.
Murderous impaler contradicts itself: there's a HUGE difference between ability score penalty and ability score damage.
I like launch impaler's new ability. At first I thought it might be a little too powerful, but then I realized it could only get abusable at level 15 or so, but by that time fighters become abusable. So, no problem. If someone wants to optimize their damage output, they can go right ahead.
Otherwise, looking OK.

Basilisk:
First thoughts... why does it get full BAB? And d12 HD?:smallconfused:
Stone Eye:
Sedimentary gaze: it emulates a cantrip. A CANTRIP. Not worth a standard action when you can just be doling out 1d8+6. I mean, yeah, reflex save... but that only becomes an important thing at high levels. Actually, at low levels, lots of creatures have good reflex saves and poor fort saves.
Heavy glare: ...now I'm a little iffy that it may be too powerful, emulating not a cantrip, but a 3rd level spell.
Anyways, otherwise it's a bit iffy. Lots of rolling involved, lots of effects, lots of bookkeeping. I'd streamline it if I were you. Beyond that, at 1st level craggy look is honestly worse than sedimentary sight or heavy glare, and then at later levels it's far better than either! Pretty much everything in it is off, from the actual petrification (which keeps to the craggy look vs. sedimentary sight or heavy glare discrepancy), to the abilities. Good idea, though, just poorly implemented.
Eight clawed: Cool.
Tail Smash: ...Might want to be a little more deliberate about it. Maybe just "ignores hardness".
Slow Metabolism: good.
Geomorphic Gaze: I'd never use it. Battlefield control, yes, but pitifully low range, and small effects. A swift action would be better. Also, this obstacle mechanic is... odd. By RAW, you don't actually have to be behind the object for it to give you cover.
Deliberate advance: cool.
Subspecies: no abyssal?
Petrifying gaze: all really good, but... even more rolling...
Consider this: you take sedimentary sight, craggy look, and crushing glower. The rolls: attack roll, 2 different saves, some dexterity damage dependent on the attack roll, and then rolling for both strength, constitution and dexterity damage dependent on the fort save. Then all the bookkeeping for 3 reduced ability scores, part of it damage, part of it penalty, and the DR and hardness, and multiple different durations, and checking for petrification. STREAMLINE!:smalleek::smalleek::smalleek:

Kobold-Bard
2011-01-09, 06:26 AM
OK, I've added a few more abilities to choose from besides just a Divine Companion. Not sure how balanced they are so let me know, thanks.

For reference:
Lammasu (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9951605&postcount=371)
G. Protector (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9951670&postcount=373)
Quasi-God (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10077255&postcount=719)
Monstrous Feats (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10041982&postcount=663)

Betropper
2011-01-09, 08:09 AM
You forgot to add my entry on contracting lycantropy in the other thread. It's on page 26.

Saidoro
2011-01-09, 10:34 AM
I'd like to try my hand at the cloaker.

radmelon
2011-01-09, 12:33 PM
I would like to request the Kythons (BoVD).

Kobold-Bard
2011-01-09, 12:41 PM
I would like to request the Kythons (BoVD).

There are 3 4 Kython's done on the Base Monster list, any particular one you want?

radmelon
2011-01-09, 12:42 PM
Wow. I feel like a huge idiot.:smalleek: Sorry for wasting time. :smallredface:

Kobold-Bard
2011-01-09, 12:44 PM
Wow. I feel like a huge idiot.:smalleek: Sorry for wasting time. :smallredface:

Don't worry about it, happens all the time (especially to me).

Hyudra
2011-01-09, 12:48 PM
Manticore:

Might want to reread the stuff under the spoiler in spike volley, clean it up. There's a couple discrepancies from the editing.

I read it and reread it, and only saw one minor paragraph format that could be tidied up. One of the reasons we ask for critiques is because, after a considerable amount of time spent working on a monster, we're intimate enough with the entry that we'll overlook stuff. Can you be clearer?


Also, I was looking at some other monsters while reading this, and I was thinking... how would this stuff affect an iron golem? The spikes, I mean. Just think about it.

I'll give it some consideration. The thought crossed my mind, I just wasn't sure what angle to take - my inclination was just to say "It'll affect an iron golem too, just refluff."


Skewer salvo: whuh! Again, the iron golem example: at 7 HD, you could just immobilize an enemy with one successful set of attacks if you took hooked spikes, so long as they had a move speed of 20' or less. The only thing that kept these spike abilities balanced is that it took so long to lay down more than a couple on an enemy. It would probably be better if rather than doing something like "max spikes/2", you did a subtraction. So, by 15th level, yeah, you're going to be launching a lot of spikes. This is a good thing. But 4 a round at level 7 is brutal- let the increased spikes start late and then increase at a good clip. Simply saying "2 spikes or max number of spikes minus 5, whichever is greater" should suffice.

Thanks for the suggestion. You're right, I don't know what I was thinking.


Murderous impaler contradicts itself: there's a HUGE difference between ability score penalty and ability score damage.

That's intentional. Note the 'further'. Each spike will subtract 2 con, but half of that gets mended when you yank out the offending spike, the other persists as ability score damage.


I like launch impaler's new ability. At first I thought it might be a little too powerful, but then I realized it could only get abusable at level 15 or so, but by that time fighters become abusable. So, no problem. If someone wants to optimize their damage output, they can go right ahead.

Alright.


Basilisk:
First thoughts... why does it get full BAB? And d12 HD?:smallconfused:

I discussed that in the comments. I agree it may be a touch over the top, but it's ultimately a monster with little else going for it than the petrifying gaze. Pit it against an enemy that's immune and it's just got a substandard natural attack.

That would normally point to getting some fair Str & Con bonuses, for a creature with no fine manipulation or speech, but the hazard with con bonuses is that it's a creature with a con based special ability. If I give it 6 con over 5 levels, that's a +3 to all the DCs.

With Str and a substandard BAB, its last resort weapon (the bite) should at the very least be somewhat reliable, I figured.

I'll tweak it, though. BAB changed, strength bonuses increased in number. May lower HD size and give it more natural armor.


Stone Eye:
Sedimentary gaze: it emulates a cantrip. A CANTRIP. Not worth a standard action when you can just be doling out 1d8+6. I mean, yeah, reflex save... but that only becomes an important thing at high levels. Actually, at low levels, lots of creatures have good reflex saves and poor fort saves.

Interesting, that last statement. Hrmm. I may have to change my approach here.


Heavy glare: ...now I'm a little iffy that it may be too powerful, emulating not a cantrip, but a 3rd level spell.

True, but my thought was that you're affecting just the single target and you're targeting a consistently high save, which tones it down a bit.

Hrmm.


Anyways, otherwise it's a bit iffy. Lots of rolling involved, lots of effects, lots of bookkeeping. I'd streamline it if I were you. Beyond that, at 1st level craggy look is honestly worse than sedimentary sight or heavy glare, and then at later levels it's far better than either! Pretty much everything in it is off, from the actual petrification (which keeps to the craggy look vs. sedimentary sight or heavy glare discrepancy), to the abilities. Good idea, though, just poorly implemented.

Damn! And I really liked the gameplay dynamics & flavor of it. Now I'm gonna have to find another approach to the ability.


Tail Smash: ...Might want to be a little more deliberate about it. Maybe just "ignores hardness".

Doable.


Geomorphic Gaze: I'd never use it. Battlefield control, yes, but pitifully low range, and small effects. A swift action would be better. Also, this obstacle mechanic is... odd. By RAW, you don't actually have to be behind the object for it to give you cover.

Reworded it from "These obstacles do provide cover, but only to creatures within 30' of it." to "These obstacles can provide cover, but only for creatures within 30' of it." Changed the range to be dependent on Strength bonus rather than HD.


Subspecies: no abyssal?

Dunno what kind of passive bonus I'd grant in that department. Don't know it's entirely fitting as a subspecies, either.


Petrifying gaze: all really good, but... even more rolling...
Consider this: you take sedimentary sight, craggy look, and crushing glower. The rolls: attack roll, 2 different saves, some dexterity damage dependent on the attack roll, and then rolling for both strength, constitution and dexterity damage dependent on the fort save. Then all the bookkeeping for 3 reduced ability scores, part of it damage, part of it penalty, and the DR and hardness, and multiple different durations, and checking for petrification. STREAMLINE!:smalleek::smalleek::smalleek:

Well, keep in mind that you're only dropping one effect a round, as a standard action. It's not that different from the manticore's spikes, in that respect.

I'm gonna sit back & brainstorm a new approach to the stone/petrifying eye abilities, though. I don't want to go the medusa route, because it's just so "doing the same thing every combat", and I want some flexibility in there. I'll see what I can come up with.

Preliminary changes made to both Basilisk and Manticore. Other comments welcome.


You forgot to add my entry on contracting lycantropy in the other thread. It's on page 26.

You're right. Added.

Might I suggest doing as is standard for monster entries, and putting an image down for any meaningful non-monster content? Just so it's more eye catching and comes across as a more serious entry?

So like, an image before the collection of monstrous feats, and one before the contracting lycanthropy entry.


I'd like to try my hand at the cloaker.

Go for it. Added you to the called monster list.

mootoall
2011-01-09, 02:33 PM
Reposting the Gargoyle, which has been changed considerably since it was last given an official's critique (though not since my last request for critiques, for clarity):

Gargoyle
http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy173/Voidminion/6098LG.jpg
Gargoyle
Hit Dice: d8

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features

1st|
+0|
+2|
+2|
+0|Gargoyle Body, Chiseled Armaments, Ability Boost

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+3|
+0|Freeze, Stone Skin Fortifications, Chiseled Armaments

3rd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+1|Improved Chiseled Armaments, Carved Mobility, Chiseled Armaments

4th|
+3|
+4|
+4|
+1|Stone Cold Metabolism, Chiseled Armaments, Statuesque Perfection[/table]
Skills Points at 1rst Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier) x 4
Skills Points at Each Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier)
Class Skills: The Gargoyle
’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Disguise (Cha), Hide (Dex), Listen (Wis), Spot (Wis).

"Ability Boost" should be listed as "+1 Con" in the table. Also, I think that the gargoyle deserves some Str bonuses. Incidentally, I think that ability boosts should come in pairs, to ensure an actual increase in bonus.

Proficiencies: The Gargoyle gains proficiency with its own natural weapons, but not with other weapons, armour or shields.

Gargoyle Class Features: The following are the Class Features of the
Gargoyle.

Gargoyle Body: At first level the Gargoyle loses all racial traits. They become a Medium Monstrous Humanoid. They gain two claws as primary natural weapons, dealing 1d4 damage each. They gain a Natural Armour bonus equal to half their Con modifier. A Gargoyle's primary natural weapons add (1.5 X Str mod) to damage, whilst their secondary natural weapons (if any) add (0.5 X Str mod). They have a +2 racial bonus to Hide checks in stone terrain.

I think that, since they have two natural weapons and the ability to increase the die size of each, the claws should only apply +Str damage, as opposed to 1.5X Str.

Chiseled Armaments: A Gargoyle's form is constantly chipped and repaired, each time becoming more powerful. At each level, a Gargoyle chooses one of the following abilities, with each one being able to be taken more than once, though not two levels in a row:

Butchery: The Gargoyle gains a secondary natural weapon dealing 1d6 damage. This can be any type of natural weapon, from a tail slap to a bite to a slam. They also gain a body part appropriate to the new weapon, though it lacks fine manipulation regardless of form.

OR

Hideous Visage: They gain the ability to use the Intimidate skill to Demoralise a creature within 30ft of them. This uses a standard action and affects a number of creatures equal to 1/2 their HD. They gain Intimidate as a class skill.

OR

Ambush Hunter: They gain one die of Sudden Strike, adding an additional 1d6 damage to attacks against creatures who are denied their Dexterity bonus to Armour Class.

Sudden Strike (detail):
If a Gargoyle can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from their attack, they can strike a vital spot for extra damage.

The Gargoyle’s attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not). Should the Gargoyle score a critical hit with a sudden strike, this extra damage is not multiplied.

Ranged attacks can count as sudden strikes only if the target is within 30 feet.

With a sap (blackjack) or an unarmed strike, a Gargoyle can make a sudden strike that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. They cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sudden strike, not even with the usual -4 penalty.

A Gargoyle can sudden strike only living creatures with discernible anatomies—undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to sudden strikes. The Gargoyle must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A Gargoyle cannot sudden strike while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach.

OR

Filthy Talons: Any two of a Gargoyle's weapons inflict the disease Filth Fever (Incubation: 1d3 days, Infection: Injury, Fort save DC: 10+Gargoyle's Con mod, Damage: 1d3 Dex, 1d3 Con).

OR

Wicked Talons: You may improve the critical threat range or critical modifier of any two of your natural weapons by 1 (e.g. a 20 threat range to 19-20, or a X2 modifier to X3).

OR

Massive Swipe: You gain Awesome Blow (Monster Manual) as a bonus feat, even if you do not meet the prerequisites.

OR

Oversized Weapons: You may increase one natural weapon's damage by two size categories or two natural weapons' damage by one size category each. The natural weapons to which this ability is applied become the Gargoyle's primary natural weapon(s), instead of their claws, allowing you to add 1.5XStr mod to damage (instead of 0.5XStr mod for secondary natural weapons).

OR

Stone Vicegrip: The Gargoyle gains the Snatch feat (Monster Manual) as a bonus feat, even if they do not meet the prerequisites.

Well implemented, I like it. The limiting factors prevent you from getting ridiculous damage, but don't prevent any options. Good.

Ability Boost: The Gargoyle gains a +1 racial bonus to its Constitution score.

Stone Skin Fortifications: Upon reaching second level the Gargoyle gains access to one of the following abilities of their choice:

Tough Skin: Their Natural Armour becomes 1.5 times their Con modifier, instead of half their Con modifier. They also reduce damage from their environment (including non-magical temperature extremes, lightning strikes, sandstorms, as well as falling damage and crushing damage caused by things such as cave-ins) by their natural armour bonus. In addition, their natural weapons are treated as magic for the purposes of bypassing damage reduction.

I think increasing Nat Armor from .5 to 1.5 Con is a bit much. Just make it equal to their Con bonus, especially since you're then giving them a bunch of other goodies based off it.

OR

Stone Body: They gain DR/Adamantine equal to half their Hit Dice (minimum 1). In addition, their natural weapons count as Adamantine for the purposes of bypassing hardness and damage reduction.

Looks good, though the name's a bit wonky. I don't think "stone" when I hear adamantine, I hear "harder than diamond."

OR

Zealous Carvings: They gain an enhancement bonus to saves equal to one third their HD (minimum 1). In addition, they gain the Lawful, Evil, Chaotic or Good subtype (choose one, cannot oppose their alignment at the time this ability is chosen, though it may later. For example, a Gargoyle is Chaotic Evil when they gain this ability, so they cannot choose the Good or Lawful suntypes. They choose the Evil subtype, but later their alignment changes to Good. They keep the subtype) and cannot have their alignment forcibly changed from the alignment of this subtype (by a Helm of Opposite Alignment, for example), though they may change from that alignment willingly. Their natural weapons, as well as any weapons they wield, count as being of the alignment matching your chosen subtype for the purposes of bypassing damage reduction.

Enhancement bonus? Unless I'm extremely rusty on my items, doesn't that not stack with a Cloak of Resistance? And even if it doesn't, it's worth a lot more than a Cloak of Resistance: at 9 HD you get +3 to your saves, when I doubt you have a CoR +3. Other than that, subtype stuff is good.

OR

Runecarved Body: They gain Energy Resistance equal to their HD to Fire, Cold, Electricity or Acid damage. This Energy Resistance stacks with most other sources (exceptions state that they do not stack with anything else). Their natural weapons deal an additional point of damage of a type matching their Energy Resistance per three HD (for example, a 6HD Gargoyle's natural weapons add two points of damage. Minimum additional damage is 1) and their natural weapons count as dealing damage all of this type for the purposes of energy vulnerabilities, but not energy resistances or immunities.

For example, a Gargoyle has chosen Fire Energy Resistance and fights a Treant. All their natural weapon damage is treated as Fire damage for the purposes of the Treant's Fire vulnerability, multiplying all natural weapon damage by 1.5. However, the same Gargoyle fighting a Salamander does not treat all of its natural weapon damage as Fire damage for the purposes of the Salamander's Fire immunity, so the Salamander is only immune to the added damage, not all of the natural weapon damage.

Confused- it only deals one point of element damage, but all of its natural weapon attacks count as that element? Useful, yes, in the case of immune creatures, but I've trouble justifying it flavor-wise. How does it interact if I take, say, acid, and decide to hit a wall? Acid bypasses hardness, do my attacks count as acid for that?

OR

Reflective Scales: The Gargoyle's racial bonus to Hide checks in stone envirnments improves by 4. In addition, they can become invisible 1/day/4HD for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 their HD.

This one's fine.

OR

Metabolic Redundancy: The Gargoyle no longer needs to eat, sleep, breathe or drink. They gain a (2XHD)% chance to avoid extra damage from criticals or sneak attacks, as the attack hits an organ which is no longer vital to the Gargoyle.

Eh, that's a weird fortification equivalent. Does it stack with fortification, or is it just a second chance to fail?



Freeze: At 2nd level the Gargoyle learns to hold perfectly still, fooling the most attentive of foes.

They can freeze as a free action to appear to be inanimate unless the examiner can succeed on a Spot check (from within line of sight) or Heal check (from within 5ft) opposed by the Gargoyle's Disguise check (which recieves a +10 bonus). The Gargoyle can use this ability to appear dead, and this is the most common use for this ability when outside of areas with an abundance of gargoyle statues.

Gargoyle should not be in blue. Fix that all over the place.

Does Deathwatch detect him as alive if he plays dead? I assume yes.

Improved Chiseled Armaments: Upon reaching third level the Gargoyle hones their body further, adding the following abilities to their list of Chiseled Armaments. Each ability can be taken only once unless specified otherwise.

Growth: The Gargoyle increases by one size category. This becomes two size categories at 14HD and three at 20HD. This ability cannot take the Gargoyle above Collosal.

Horrendous Visage: The Gargoyle gains a gaze attack with a range of 10ft+(5ft/2HD) which inflicts the shaken condition unless the target succeeds on a Will save (DC=5+Intimidate ranks). If the target succeeds on the save they are immune to that Gargoyle's Horrendous Visage for 24 hours. If they fail the save they are immune to the gaze's passive form unless they leave the area and re-enter. The Gargoyle can actively focus the gaze on a single target with a standard action, raising the DC by 2. At 14HD the condition inflicted is shaken or frightened, at the Gargoyle's option on successfully inflicting it. At 20HD the condition is shaken, frightened or panicked.

Water Bullets: The Gargoyle gains a breath weapon, usable once every 1d4 rounds. It is either a cone with a range of 10ft+5ft/HD or a line with a range of 20ft+10ft/HD. It deals 1d4 bludgeoning damage per HD (DC 10+1/2HD+Con mod Reflex save for half). At 14HD a Gargoyle can choose to push back any creature smaller than the Gargoyle that cannot make a Strength check (DC=10+1/2HD+Con mod) up to the edge of the breath weapon's range. At 20HD the damage improves to 2d4/HD and the breath weapon can be used every round (instead of every 1d4 rounds).

I dunno, 40d4 damage at 20th level? Lots of dice being rolled ... I'd change it to 1d6/2 HD, or maybe /3 HD, then change the damage to 1d8/3 HD at 20th if you want to keep that type of effect, and keep the recharge (maybe make it 1d4-1 minimum of 1). Can you apply metabreath feats to this? Also, it's bludgeoning, a big advantage over, say DFA or Dragon breaths, which opponents are commonly immune to. "At 14HD a Gargoyle can choose to push back any creature smaller than the Gargoyle that cannot make a Strength check (DC=10+1/2HD+Con mod) up to the edge of the breath weapon's range" is very clunky wording. Say "Your opponent must succeed on a strength check with a DC of 10+1/2 HD+Con mod or be pushed back up to the edge of the breath weapon's range.

Overwhelming Stench: The Gargoyle gains large growths on its body. Con mod times per day it may release a cloud of vapours with a radius of 5ft+5ft/HD, centered on itself. Creatures within the area must make a Fort save (DC 10+1/2HD+Con mod) or be sickened. The vapours disperse within one round, leaving a strong smell, but no actual effects. This is treated as a poison effect for the purposes of immunities. Any two of the Gargoyle's natural weapons may also inflict sickening, though the Fort save DC is reduced by 5 (becoming 5+1/2HD+Con mod). The Gargoyle is immune to its own stench. At 14HD the Gargoyle has its vapours constantly active, requiring a free action each round to suppress it. They also become immune to all poisons and diseases (including magical ones). At 20HD they may release vapours Con mod times per day which make creatures in the area nauseated. This effect is not added to natural weapons, nor is it subject to being constantly active, but works in all other ways as the sickening vapours.

Sickened is a very weak effect. I'd never take this over, say, Filthy Claws. And by 20 HD, no one's gonna be nauseated unless you're only fighting humanoids with class levels. And not even then most of the time.

Petrification: One of the Gargoyle's natural weapons gains the ability to petrify a foe it hits. The struck creature takes 1 Dex damage per round, each round receiving a Fort save to negate the effect (DC 10+1/2HD+Con mod). One successful Fort save stops all Dex damage from this effect. If struck multiple times with the petrifying weapon before the victim passes a Fort save the Dex damage increases by one per hit, though one successful save still negates all the damage. The creature struck gains one point of natural armour bonus for each point of Dex damage they have taken from this ability. At 14HD, the Dex damage per round per hit increases to 1d3, and a creature with a Dex of 0 or - takes Con damage from this ability equal to the Dex damage they would normally take (with a Fort save still negating damage). A creature dieing from Con damage from this ability is petrified. At 20HD the ability damage dealt by this ability increases to 1d6 and the Gargoyle becomes immune to petrification effects.

This is very confusingly worded. Does a single save remove all previous damage too? After the first save, are they immune to the Dex damage from this? For how long? Do they take 1/hit damage for the first hit, then 2/hit for the second on, then 3/hit for the third? Very confusing. If so, then why mention 1/hit at all? When it increases to 1d3, do they do multiple dice of damage/hit?

Carved Mobility: Also at third level, the Gargoyle gains access to one of the following abilities:

Carved Wings: They may gain a flight speed equal to their base land speed at clumsy maneuverability for up to (3+Con mod) rounds per day. These rounds need not be consecutive.

At 6HD there is no limit to the rounds the Gargoyle may spend in flight and the maneuverability improves to poor.

At 9HD their flight speed increases to twice their base land speed and their maneuverability increases to average.

Flight speed, good, fine, I like it.

OR

Streamlining: They gain a swim speed equal to their base land speed (with all the associated benefits) and gain Hold Breath, allowing them to hold their breath for a number of rounds equal to (8XCon mod).

At 6HD they gain the (Aquatic) subtype, allowing them to breathe water. This does not remove their ability to breathe air.

At 9HD their swim speed becomes equal to twice their base land speed. In addition, they gain the Jet ability. Once per hour they may make a charge or run action as a full-round action to swim at six times their swim speed. They must move at least 30ft when using this ability, but the movement they take does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Swim speed, good, fine, I like it.

OR

Pick Claws: They gain a burrow speed of 10ft+5ft/2HD (to a maximum of their base land speed). This applies when digging through loose soil, sand, clay and substances of similar hardness. They do not leave a usable tunnel.

At 6HD their burrow speed increases to 15ft+5ft/HD (to a maximum of their base land speed). They may leave a usable tunnel by burrowing at half speed. This tunnel has a diameter equal to the Gargoyle's space.

At 9HD their base land speed for the purposes of their maximum burrow speed increases by 10ft. They may dig through substances with a hardness of at most (1/2 their HD + their Str mod) at full speed. They need not slow down to leave a usable tunnel.

Burrow speed, good, fine, I like it.

Statuesque Perfection: At level four their stone body reaches a perfected state. They choose any two abilities from the Chiseled Armaments, Stone Skin Fortifications or Carved Mobility lists (two total, not per list).

My problem with this is that it's a way to get a four die size increase to your natural weapons. Very powerful for a meleer.

Stone Cold Metabolism: Beginning at 4th level the Gargoyle can slow its metabolism to a crawl. Whilst in this state the Gargoyle is treated as an object with hitpoints equal to its normal maximum and a hardness of 4+HD. The Gargoyle becomes immune to effects which only affect creatures and vulnerable to effects which only affect objects. They automatically pass saves against disease and poison whilst in metabolic stasis. Whilst in metabolic stasis they are immune to poisons, bleeding, ability damage and drain, negative and positive energy damage, negative levels, death effects and diseases. Any ongoing effects which only affect creatures are suppressed whilst the Gargoyle is in metabolic stasis. Any ongoing effects which only affect objects are suppressed when the Gargoyle leaves metabolic stasis. In either of these cases they may take effect again if the Gargoyle returns to the appropriate state whilst the effect's duration remains. The Gargoyle does not age whilst in metabolic stasis, nor do they need to eat, drink or breathe. When they leave stasis they do not age an equivalent time or need to eat, drink or breathe for the time they were in stasis. The Gargoyle can use this ability a number of rounds each day equal to 2 X (their HD + their Con mod). These rounds need not be consecutive, but the Gargoyle must decide how many rounds they are using before the enter the state (minimum one round). This ability takes a full-round action to enter. This reduces to a standard action at 8HD, a move action at 12HD, a free action at 16HD and an Immediate action at 20HD.

The Gargoyle may enter stasis for longer than stated above, but they come out of the stasis after 1d6 days, weeks, months, years or decades (or even longer units of time, at the DM's discretion), at the Gargoyle's option, meaning this option is rarely used.

Good, I like this.


Comments/Changelog:

Comments
By the time I got to Chiseled Path (Perfection) I knew why the previous people stopped. I may add more of those abilities later, but for now I'm happy with the class. No dead levels and I didn't have to resort to ability score bonuses (though I may add in some if the class is too weak). Complete overhaul of Chiseled Armaments (now every level), Stone Skin Fortifications (new effects) and Statuesque Perfection (which has been rolled into the other abilities). I'm quite happy with the variety now, and it is much better than when it started.

Changelog

14/12/10 - Fixed formatting.
14/12/10 - Added detail to Ambush Hunter and Stone Cold Metabolism. Changed names of all Chiseled Path abilities. Added a new option to Statuesque Perfection, Metabolic Redundancy.
23/12/10 - Large overhaul to many things (mostly Chiseled Armaments, Stone Skin Fortifications and Statuesque Perfection, as stated above).
Chiseled Armaments has far more abilties, as does Stone Skin Fortifications. Chiseled Armaments is now every level. Statuesque Perfection now gives additional choices from other menus, instead of having abilities itself. Stone Cold should be clarified now (at least I hope so).

Comments are in blue!

Saidoro
2011-01-09, 03:08 PM
Cloaker
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG36.jpg


Hit Dice: d8



Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Class Features


1st

+0

+0

+0

+2
Cloaker Body, Engulf, Engulfing Leap, Cloak, +1 Str


2nd

+1

+0

+0

+3
Shadow Shift, Obscure Features, +1 Con


3rd

+2

+1

+1

+3
Improved Engulf, Mutual Defenses, +1 Str +1 Cha


4th

+3

+1

+1

+4
Flight, +1 Con


5th

+3

+1

+1

+4
Moan, Growth, +1 Str +1 Cha



Skills Points at first Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier) x 4
Skills Points at Each Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier)
Class Skills: The Cloaker’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Disguise (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Spot (Wis)

Proficiencies: The Cloaker is proficient only with its natural weapons.

Cloaker Class Features: The following are the Class Features of the cloaker.

Cloaker Body: The Cloaker loses all other racial traits and acquires aberration traits, giving it darkvision 60 ft. Cloakers begin as medium creatures with base land speed of 10 ft, a climb speed of 10 ft, a primary tail slap that deals 1d4+str damage and a secondary bite attack that deals 1d3+str damage. Cloakers get a natural armor bonus equal to their constitution modifier. Cloakers are treated as though they had a base land speed of 30 ft for the purposes of using the jump skill. Cloakers speak undercommon, and can perform fine manipulation with their tails, although not well enough to wield a weapon.

Cloakers lack the body parts to appropriately use magic items of the boot or cloak item slots, but a cloaker can consume up to two magic items of the cloak item slot and confer their benefits to itself and any character wearing the cloaker. The cloaker can regurgitate a cloak so consumed as a full-round action.

Engulf: A cloaker can try to wrap a creature at least one size category smaller than it in its body as a standard action. The cloaker attempts a grapple that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and bites the engulfed victim. The cloaker does not take the normal -4 penalty to attack rolls with its bite against creatures it has engulfed. It can still use its whiplike tail to strike at other targets.

Attacks that hit an engulfing cloaker deal half their damage to the monster and half to the trapped victim.

Engulfing Leap: As a full round action a cloaker can fly up to 40' in a straight line to a square adjacent to a target it could engulf and attempts to engulf them. Feats or abilities that enhance a charge attack can also enhance this action. This action must end in an engulf attempt.
At 3 HD this ability can be used to fly up to 60'.
At 6 HD it can be used to fly up to twice the cloaker's fastest movement speed or 80', whichever is greater.

Cloak: Cloakers bear an incredible resemblance to their namesake, and can use this resemblance to remain hidden. The cloaker may choose to be worn by a willing creature of its own size or one size category smaller or larger. While using this ability the cloaker enters the other creature's space and occupies space as though it where a creature of that size, it also gains a +10 bonus to disguise checks to appear as a normal cloak and has it's disguise checks opposed by knowledge(Arcana or dungeoneering) instead of spot. The cloaker uses up the other creature's cloak magic item slot and only counts as half its weight for the purposes of determining that creature's encumbrance. The cloaker can use it's tail whip as normal and can use spells or spell-like abilities with somatic components unhindered, but loses access to its bite attack. A cloaker with a fly speed can fly at half its normal speed and with its maneuverability reduced by one step, carrying the other creature with it. Carrying a medium or heavy load reduces this fly speed appropriately and the cloaker cannot fly if its companion would put it over a heavy load. Using it's abilities does not necessarily reveal it as a cloaker, most people will just assume that it is a magic cloak. Entering this state is a move action and leaving it is a swift action. Any ability referring to creatures wearing the cloaker refers to this ability.

Shadow Shift: Beginning at 2nd level the cloaker can manipulate shadows. While in shadowy areas the cloaker can use the following abilities:
Silent Image: The cloaker can use Silent image as a spell-like ability once per day per HD. Save DC 10 + 1/2HD+cha mod. At 5 HD this becomes at will.
Obscure Vision: A cloaker may use a swift action to grant concealment (20% miss chance) to itself and any creatures wearing it for 1d4 rounds once per day per 2 HD. At 10 HD this becomes at will.
Mirror Image: Beginning at 3 HD the cloaker can use mirror image as a spell-like ability once per day per 3 HD. The benefits of this spell also apply to any creature wearing the cloaker. At 12 HD this becomes at will.

Obscure Features: The cloaker can deepen or remove shadows near it's own body seeming to change the features of those who wear it. Any creature wearing the cloaker gets a bonus to disguise checks to appear as someone different equal to the cloaker's HD.

Improved Engulf: At third level the Cloaker becomes better at containing its foes. Engulf can now be used on creatures of the cloaker's size or smaller. Additionally, creatures the cloaker has engulfed are treated as flat-footed against the cloaker's bite attack, and its bite's damage increases to 1d6+str against creatures it has engulfed.

Mutual Defenses: When a creature wearing the cloaker is attacked the cloaker may choose to take up to a quarter of the damage dealt in the place of the other creature. Likewise, when the cloaker is attacked while being worn it may assign up to a quarter of the damage it is dealt to the other creature instead of itself.

Flight: Starting at fourth level the cloaker can fly at a speed of 40' with average maneuverability.

Moan: From fifth level cloakers gain the ability to emit a dangerous subsonic moan as a standard action. The cloaker can use these abilities a total number of times per day equal to its HD. Cloakers are immune to these sonic, mind affecting attacks as are creatures wearing a cloaker. Unless otherwise specified, a creature that successfully saves against one of these effects cannot be affected by the same moan from the same cloaker for 24 hours. All save DCs are 10+1/2HD+cha mod. The cloaker can cause four different effects:
Unnerve: Anyone within a 60-foot spread automatically takes a -2 penalty on attack and damage rolls. Those forced to hear the moan for more than 6 consecutive rounds must succeed on a Will save or enter a trance, unable to attack or defend themselves until the moaning stops. A cloaker who uses this moan may continue using it as a move action each round without expending additional daily uses. At 10 HD and every 5 HD thereafter the penalty increases by 1.
Fear: Anyone within a 30-foot spread must succeed on a Will save or become frightened for 2 rounds. At 8 HD they become panicked instead, and at 10 HD and every 5 HD thereafter the duration increases by 1 round.
Nausea: Anyone in a 30-foot cone must succeed on a Fortitude save or be overcome by nausea and weakness.
Affected characters become nauseated for 1d4+1 rounds, those who fail their saves by 5 or more also fall prone. At 10 HD and every 10 HD thereafter this moan's duration and saving throw DC increase by 1. At 15 HD, the cloaker may choose to use this moan (and only this moan) as though it was not a mind-affecting ability, but when it does so this moan is not affective against creatures that are immune to critical hits.
Stupor: Starting at 9 HD the cloaker can use its final moan. A single creature within 30 feet of the cloaker must succeed on a Fortitude save or be affected as though by a hold monster spell for 5 rounds. Even after a successful save, the creature must repeat the save if the cloaker uses this effect again. At 12 HD and every 3 HD thereafter the duration of this ability increases by 2 rounds.

Growth: A fifth level cloaker grows to large size. Its reach, grapple modifiers, natural attack damage and skills change accordingly, but it doesn't gain any ability score bonuses or penalties.


Comments/Changelog:
Comments
A classic monster with 5 levels and 4 major abilities, not terribly difficult. Still, it's my first homebrew, so there's probably something wrong with it.

Areas of concern:
Do engulfing leap and the ability to be carried give it enough maneuverability until it starts flying? should I up it's move speed?
Should the shadow shift abilities be at will right from the beginning? Should they never be at will? Is my current scheme the right idea but given at the wrong levels?
Should shadow shift become usable in any light? When?
Should Engulfing leap scale? When?
The nausea and stupor moans seem like they shouldn't be gained until a few HD later, but I have no idea when.
The cloaker has a lot of abilities keyed to Charisma, should I be giving boosts to that instead of/in addition to boosts to con and dex?
Changelog
January 10
Fixed typos
Added jump to skills
Assigned primary/secondary weapons
Added Climb speed and removed jump penalties
Modified Unnerve Moan
January 12
Reworded jump-penalty-remover
Renamed dancing images to mirror image
Weakened Nausea Moan
Delayed Stupor Moan to 9th level
January 30
Added thing about magic items.
Added Cloak
Made shadow shift abilities apply to creatures wearing the cloaker
Removed shadow shift "can use in any light" thing
Added obscure features
Added Mutual Defenses
Made it so moans don't affect creatures wearing the cloaker

January 31
Added languages.
Clarified Engulfing Leap and Cloak

February 12
Reworded Engulf
Added line to cloak and removed all "wearing cloaker through cloak silliness"
Made engulfing leap work in a straight line
Cloak's flight no longer works regardless of weight
Cloak can now be used on creatures a single size category larger
February 13
Made Moans Scaly.
Changed Improved Engulf bity-thingy

Hyudra
2011-01-09, 03:19 PM
Gargoyle

Don't make the creature name blue.
Class Skills: The Gargoyle
’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Disguise (Cha), Hide (Dex), Listen (Wis), Spot (Wis).
There's an accidental line break there, between Gargoyle and 's.
Proficiencies:
You from the UK? Funny spelling of armor.
Gargoyle Body:
You state, in two separate areas of the text, that the claws do 1d4 damage, and that they get +1.5 x Str mod to damage. I'd just say they do 1d4 + 1.5 x Str mod damage.
You state "their secondary natural weapons (if any) add (0.5 X Str mod)." -- This may cause conflicts in the text of any natural attacks you pick up (say, from Horrid Monster or Creature of Legend) which might have different values.
Why is their natural armor so low?
Chiseled Armaments:
"A Gargoyle's form is constantly chipped and repaired, each time becoming more powerful." -- This is confusing and weird. Who or what's repairing it? Why is it becoming more powerful?
Butchery:
I'm being nitpicky here, but there's concrete advantages to be gained through this, beyond the natural attack. Consider that I could take 'hoof', gain two legs, and get a bonus to avoid being tripped.
The name Butchery doesn't quite fit the granted ability.
Oversized Weapons:
You need to state what happens to the claw damage die/str bonus/attack roll if another natural attack takes over.
I don't like all the OR in the list. It's visually distracting and annoying. Look at how the Basilisk lists the options, by contrast?
Ability Boost:
We're striving to standardize monster entries in format. I encourage you to look at other recent monster entries and see how they handled/described stat boosts.
Stone Skin Fortifications:
The effects on natural weapons seems out of place, given what the abilities purport to do.
Zealous Carvings is perhaps too good. That's a big bonus to saves.
Runecarved Body: Perhaps a little unwieldy. The bonus to damage is so small as to barely matter.
Reflective Scales: Weak at early levels (You can pick it up at 2nd level, at which point it's just a hide bonus), offers a very small window of passable benefit (Mid levels) and is then useless as you approach higher level (Where half of the enemies you fight are going to be able to see through your invisibility without a sweat.).
Metabolic Redundancy: Weaksauce. Consider that the anti-critical chance is so small as to not matter for a long time, (4% at 2nd level? 40% at level 20?) and criticals don't happen ~that~ often, so it's only going to help you out once a level? Twice a level? Then figure it's really only going to save your life or swing a combat in your favor what, one in five times? It just won't come up often enough to matter, compared to stuff like DR or a good resistance.
Freeze:
Most intelligent foes, I imagine, are just going to coup de grace the 'dead' gargoyle.
Improved Chiseled Armaments:
Not sure I like growth giving you free growth by HD. Also, the flavor of a gargantuan gargoyle is... weird. It kind of runs against the flavor of the monster & several abilities (ie. Freeze).
Visage: "If they fail the save they are immune to the gaze's passive form unless they leave the area and re-enter." What's this? Passive form?
Overwhelming Stench:
I wouldn't make suppressing it a free action, or you get some weird stuff happening. Make it swift.
You contradict yourself, stating:
"Any two of the Gargoyle's natural weapons may also inflict sickening..."
and
"This effect is not added to natural weapons..."
-- Be clearer in your sentence structure.
Petrifaction, I don't like - it's a whole lot of extra book-keeping and stat tracking/changes over the course of a combat. More when you're rolling the stat damage each round.
Carved Mobility:
I'd honestly just give it flight. Swim speed is so situational, and not many people are going to take burrow. The latter two don't really fit the gargoyle, either.
Stone Cold Metabolism:
It shouldn't be anything lower than a move action, actionwise.
Going from a free action to an immediate action is a downgrade, pretty much.
As is, you can turn to stone in response to an incoming attack, at high levels.

Kobold-Bard
2011-01-09, 03:23 PM
Cloaker
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG36.jpg


Hit Dice: d8

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Cloaker Body, Engulf, Engulfing Leap, +1 Str

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|Shadow Shift, +1 Con

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+3|Improved Engulf, +1 Str

4th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|Flight, +1 Con

5th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|Moan, Growth, +1 Str [/table]

Skills Points at 1rst Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier) x 4
Skills Points at Each Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier)
Class Skills: The Cloaker’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Disguise (Cha), Hide (Dex), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Spot (Wis)

This might just be me but I hate stuff only getting 2+Int Mod skill points.

Proficiencies: The Cloaker is proficient only with its natural weapons.

Cloaker Class Features: The following are the Class Features of the cloaker.

Cloaker Body: The Cloaker loses all other racial traits and acquires aberration traits, giving it darkvision 60 ft. Cloakers begin as medium creatures with base land speed of 10 ft, a bite attack that deals 1d3+str damage and a tail slap that deals 1d4+str damage. Either the tail slap or the bite can be the Cloaker's primary weapon at a given point in time, but both can't be the primary weapon at the same time. Cloakers get a natural armor bonus equal to their constitution modifier.

Tail Slap is primary in the SRD, why the choice here? Too slow, make it 20ft.

Cloakers are virtually indistinguishable from a normal black cloak, they gain a +10 on disguise checks to appear as a normal cloak, and may choose to count as only half their weight for the purposes of calculating encumbrance f worn.

Engulf: A cloaker can try to wrap a creature at least one size category smaller than it in its body as a standard action. The cloaker attempts a grapple that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and bites the engulfed victim with a +4 bonus on its attack roll. It can still use its whiplike tail to strike at other targets.

Attacks that hit an engulfing cloaker deal half their damage to the monster and half to the trapped victim.

Engulfing Leap: As a full round action a cloaker can fly up to 40' at a target and attempt to engulf them. Feats or abilities that enhance a charge attack can also enhance this action.
At 3 HD this ability can be used to fly up to 60'.
At 6 HD it can be used to fly up to twice the cloaker's fastest movement speed or 80', whichever is greater.

Shadow Shift: Beginning at 2nd level the cloaker can manipulate shadows. While in shadowy areas the cloaker can use the following abilities:
Silent Image: The cloaker can use Silent image as a spell-like ability once per day per HD. Save DC 10 + 1/2HD+cha mod. At 5 HD this becomes at will.
Obscure Vision: A cloaker may use a swift action to gain concealment for 1d4 rounds once per day per 2 HD. At 10 HD this becomes at will.
Dancing Images: At 4 HD the cloaker can use mirror image as a spell-like ability once per day per 3 HD. At 12 HD this becomes at will.
At 8 HD these abilities can be used regardless of lighting conditions.

Improved Engulf: At third level the Cloaker becomes better at containing its foes. Engulf can now be used on creatures of the cloaker's size or smaller. Also, the cloaker's bite can now be used to make iterative attacks against any foe the cloaker is grappling while it is a primary weapon.

Flight: Starting at fourth level the cloaker can fly at a speed of 40' with average maneuverability.

Moan: From fifth level cloakers gain the ability to emit a dangerous subsonic moan as a standard action. The cloaker can use these abilities a total number of times per day equal to its HD. Cloakers are immune to these sonic, mind affecting attacks. Unless otherwise specified, a creature that successfully saves against one of these effects cannot be affected by the same moan from the same cloaker for 24 hours.

Dislike the 24 hour part, unnecessary since they already get a Save.

All save DCs are 10+1/2HD+cha mod. The cloaker can cause for different effects:
Unnerve: Anyone within a 60-foot spread automatically takes a -2 penalty on attack and damage rolls. Those forced to hear the moan for more than 6 consecutive rounds must succeed on a Will save or enter a trance, unable to attack or defend themselves until the moaning stops.

Make it only enemies. 6 rounds is a really long time, maybe 3?

Fear: Anyone within a 30-foot spread must succeed on a Will save or become panicked for 2 rounds.
Nausea: Anyone in a 30-foot cone must succeed on a Fortitude save or be overcome by nausea and weakness.
Affected characters fall prone and become nauseated for 1d4+1 rounds.
Stupor: A single creature within 30 feet of the cloaker must succeed on a Fortitude save or be affected as though by a hold monster spell for 5 rounds. Even after a successful save, the creature must repeat the save if the cloaker uses this effect again.

Growth: A fifth level cloaker grows to large size. Its reach, grapple modifiers, natural attack damage and skills change accordingly, but it doesn't gain any ability score bonuses or penalties.


Comments/Changelog:
Comments
A classic monster with 5 levels and 4 major abilities, not terribly difficult. Still, it's my first homebrew, so there's probably something wrong with it.

Areas of concern:
Do engulfing leap and the ability to be carried give it enough maneuverability until it starts flying? should I up it's move speed?
Should the shadow shift abilities be at will right from the beginning? Should they never be at will? Is my current scheme the right idea but given at the wrong levels?
The nausea and stupor moans seem like they shouldn't be gained until a few HD later, but I have no idea when.
The cloaker has a lot of abilities keyed to Charisma, should I be giving boosts to that instead of/in addition to boosts to con and dex?
Changelog
Nothing yet



Minimal comments, for what they're worth.

Lix Lorn
2011-01-09, 03:35 PM
Proficiencies:
You from the UK? Funny spelling of armor.
You from america? Funny spelling of armour. :smalltongue:

Saidoro
2011-01-09, 03:38 PM
This might just be me but I hate stuff only getting 2+Int Mod skill points.
The original monster had 4 skills with listed modifiers and +2 int, I may increase it if shown a reason they need more.

Tail Slap is primary in the SRD, why the choice here? Too slow, make it 20ft.
The choice is because they later gain an ability to make iterative attacks with their bite and it seemed wierd to have them doing that with a secondary weapon. I realize it may well be too slow, I gave it engulfing leap and the ability to be carried more easily in an attempt to offset that, do you think it can be made workable through those abilities(possibly modified) or is the only way to have it not fail completely a speed boost?

Dislike the 24 hour part, unnecessary since they already get a Save.
The once every 24 hours thing is standard.

Make it only enemies. 6 rounds is a really long time, maybe 3?
The first part is probably a good idea, the second I'm not so sure about, it seems like the sort of thing you use when you have some sort of tactical advantage to stop them from hitting you, not an every combat thing. (I probably should let them continue doing it without using additional uses though.)

I'll probably wait until I've gotten a few more comments then change things all at once, Anyone else?

The Antigamer
2011-01-09, 04:55 PM
Remorhaz

Responses in Red


Remorhaz, a base character class
Hit Dice: d10

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features

1st|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+0|Remorhaz Body, Rush, +1 Strength

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+0|
+0|Heat, Ambush, +1 Strength

3rd|
+2|
+3|
+1|
+1|Flexible, Lurker, +1 Strength. +1 Constitution

4th|
+3|
+4|
+1|
+1|Cobra Strike, Toss, +1 Strength

5th|
+3|
+4|
+1|
+1|Growth, Swallow Whole, Tremorsense 30ft, +1 Strength

6th|
+4|
+5|
+2|
+2|Pyroclastic Belch, +1 Strength, +1 Constitution

7th|
+5|
+5|
+2|
+2|Improved Grab, Fiery Surge, +1 Strength
[/table]
Skills Points at 1st Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier) x 4
Skills Points at Each Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier)
Class Skills: The Remorhaz’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str)

Proficiencies: A Remorhaz gains proficiency with its natural weapons, but with no armor or shields.

Remorhaz Class Features: The following are the Class Features of the Remorhaz.

Remorhaz Body: The Remorhaz loses all racial traits, and gains Magical Beast traits(basically Darkvision 60 ft and Low-light Vision). The Remorhaz is a medium magical beast, with a long, many-legged, segmented body, and the reach of a long creature of its size category. It has a base land speed of 30 ft, a bite attack that deals 1d10+ 1.5*STR damage, Tremorsense 15 ft.(Which increases to 30 ft at 5th level, and 60 ft at 10th level), and natural armor equal to its CON modifier.

A Remorhaz lacks the limbs for fine manipulation, and cannot use weapons or shields. A Remorhaz can understand speech, but without much practice(requiring the expenditure of two skill points) it cannot speak. Otherwise, someone who has been in the Remorhaz’s company for a week can understand its body language and natural noises enough to recognize basic emotions and needs such as ‘danger’, ‘hunger’, and ‘gratitude’.
I like this part

Ability Score Increases: A Remorhaz gains +1 Strength every level of the class, and +1 Constitution at 3rd and 6th level, for a total of +7 Strength, and +2 Constitution.
Whoah there, maybe scale back the strength bonus a bit?

Rush: A Remorhaz can make a devastating lunge to toss enemies about like rag dolls. As the end of a charge, a Remorhaz can declare a Rush instead of a normal attack, which deals 1d10+ 2*STR damage(bludgeoning). This attack gains the normal bonuses and penalties of a charge. If the attack hits, the Remorhaz can immediately attempt a bull-rush. If the result would move the opponent more then 5 ft, the Remorhaz does not need to follow them.
Hmmm, ok, I guess this could work.

Heat: Beginning at 2nd level, an enraged Remorhaz produces a wave of heat that sears anything near it. As a swift action, a Remorhaz can activate his heat aura, dealing 2d6 points of fire damage to creatures that attack it for a number of rounds equal to 5+Con modifier. This damage increases by 1d6 every two levels, becoming 3d6 at 4th level, 4d6 at 6th level, etc. Only creatures that successfully attack the Remorhaz with an unarmed strike or natural weapon are subject to this damage. The Remorhaz can use this abilty 1/day/3HD(minimum 1), and is fatigued for a number of rounds equal to the rounds spent using Heat.
Maybe some re-wording here. I think you mean "As a swift action, a Remorhaz can activate his heat aura, which lasts for a number of rounds equal to 5+Con modifier. Anything touching the Remorhaz takes 2d6 points of fire damage. Creatures striking a Remorhaz with natural attacks or unarmed attacks are subject to this damage, but creatures striking with melee weapons do not take damage from the remorhaz’s heat. The damage increases by 1d6 every two levels, becoming 3d6 at 4th level, 4d6 at 6th level, etc. The Remorhaz can use this abilty 1/day/3HD(minimum 1), and is fatigued for a number of rounds equal to the rounds spent using Heat."

I'm not sure I agree with the Remorhaz being fatigued for so long after using Heat. Also, you need to note what action it takes to end Heat.


At 6 HD, any weapon that strikes the Remorhaz is subject to being destroyed by the sheer heat of the Remorhaz’s blood. Any melee weapon that strikes the Remorhaz must make a Fortitude save DC (10+1/2 HD+ Con modifier) or be destroyed. Weapons with an enhancement bonus equal to or greater then 1/4 the Remorhaz's HD are not subject to this effect.

At 11 HD, any creature that strikes the Remorhaz with a melee weapon that does not have reach is subject to Heat damage. Also, the Remorhaz is no longer fatigued after using Heat.

At 16 HD, anytime a creature does piercing or slashing damage to the Remorhaz, anyone nearby is subject to a spray of superheated bodily fluids, dealing Heat damage to any creature in a 15ft cone(starting at the creature striking the Remorhaz, and extending directly away from the Remorhaz), with a reflex save DC (10+ 1/2HD+ Con modifier) for half damage.

Ambush: Beginning at 2nd level, a Remorhaz becomes an expert at not only catching creatures off guard, but knocking them down to never get up again. When a Remorhaz strikes a creature that is denied its dexterity bonus to AC, it knocks the creature prone unless it makes a Fort save DC (10+1/2HD+Str modifier). Any stability or relative size modifiers grant their bonuses to this save.
Not so sure about this ability...

Flexible: Starting from 3rd level, the Remorhaz cannot be knocked down and may constrict itself through spaces as though it were one size category smaller. In addition, should the Remorhaz increase in size to such a point that they occupy multiple spaces (likely by way of the Growth class feature, below, and/or magical effects), the Remorhaz may forego their usual 5 foot step to reconfigure the positioning of their body, changing from occupying a square shaped space to an irregular section of ground. Remorhaz who use do this must maintain the same total number of spaces (a Remorhaz with 10' space is 4 tiles) and each occupied space must have a horizontal or vertical connection to another part of the Remorhaz.
I like the idea, but when would it want to occupy irregular shaped spaces?

Lurker: Starting at 3rd level, the Remorhaz can shuffle itself into the ground like a giant stingray, lying in wait for its prey. When standing on ice or earth, the Remorhaz can bury its entire body as a full-round action. This grants the Remorhaz cover, and a +4 bonus to Hide checks. However, movement is extremely restricted, and the Remorhaz can only move 5ft as a full round action.

At 6 HD, a Remorhaz gains a burrow speed of 10 ft through earth and ice.
At 9 HD, this burrow speed improves to 20 ft.
I'd give burrow 10' at 5th level, and burrow 20' at 7th level, but that's just me.

Cobra Strike: Beginning at 4th level, a Remorhaz can choose to stretch its body out when it attacks, extending its natural reach by 5 ft for one round. However, this leaves the main body open to attacks, imposing a -2 penalty to AC.
Say until the beginning of its next turn to be clearer about when it ends. Also, I'd make the extended reach depend upon HD somehow, and the penalty to AC dependent on how far it extends the reach.

Toss: At 4th level, the Remorhaz becomes a master at throwing his opponents exactly where it wants them. When a Remorhaz succeeds at a bull rush attempt, it can now choose to push the opponent 5ft sideways or up for every 5ft he is shoved backwards.
Is this in addition to, or in place of, moving the 5' backwards?

Growth: At 5th level, the Remorhaz grows from medium to large size, gaining size modifiers, reach, and increasing the damage of its natural attack as appropriate, but without changing its ability scores.

At 12th level, the Remorhaz becomes Huge sized.

At 19th level, the Remorhaz becomes Gargantuan.

Swallow Whole: A Remorhaz of 5th level or higher can swallow an opponent that it is grappling. To do this, it must succeed on another grapple check (as if to pin the opponent). If successful, it swallows the foe, delivering bite damage as it goes. Opponents to be swallowed must be at least one size category smaller than the Remorhaz.

Swallowed foes are crushed each round, taking the same damage they would from a bite (but as blunt damage) and suffering from Heat damage. To escape, they must cut their way out through the worm's gizzard. To do so, they must attack with a light/natural slashing weapon and deliver at least 25 points of damage to the gizzard. The gizzard has an AC of (10+ 1/2 Natural armor). Once the creature escapes, muscular action closes the hole, and any creatures which are later swallowed have to cut their own exit.
Note that they take Heat damage even if the Remorhaz isn't currently using the Heat ability.


Pyroclastic Belch: At 6th level, a Remorhaz learns to use its superheated interior to create its own flaming projectiles. As a standard action, a Remorhaz that is within reach of a surface made of ice, dirt, or stone can scoop up some of that surface in its mouth and project it as a devastating attack. If the surface is ice, then the result is a cone of steam (HD*10ft) long, and dealing (HD*1d6) fire damage. If the surface is dirt or stone, then the result is a glob of molten lava that works as a ranged touch attack with a (HD*15ft) range increment, and deals (HD*1d6) damage, half of which is fire damage, the other half is bludgeoning damage.
I like this, it seems fun, but the range increment needs to be scaled down a bit, and it needs a recharge time.

Improved Grab: A Remorhaz of 7th level or higher that lands a bite attack on an opponent can immediately initiate a grapple without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it seizes the victim in its jaws and may attempt to swallow whole the following round.

Firey Surge: At 7th level, a Remorhaz becomes a rampaging creature of burning power. If a Remorhaz successfully attacks a creature at the end of a charge, it can pour its rage and inner heat into an enormous blast of superheated air. This deals fire damage equal to its Heat damage in a (1/3HD*5'ft) radius of the creature struck, with any creature other then that creature entitled to a reflex save DC (10+ 1/2HD+ Con modifier) for half damage. The creature struck, and any that fail reflex saves are also subject to being moved back to the edge of the radius, taking 1d6 damage for each 10ft moved. If a solid surface prevents the creature from moving any further, it takes another 1d6 points of damage as it strikes the surface. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The Remorhaz can use this ability 1/day/5HD.
Since it's pretty limited uses per day, I guess it's fine.


All in all, a good first attempt. Some things need tweaking, but you captured the essence of a Remorhaz, and given it some unique abilities to up their game.

mootoall
2011-01-09, 05:17 PM
For the Remorhaz, I'd make Ambush work, rather than as an ill-defined Fort save (what kind of bonus would "stable" creatures get?) you make it work as part of a bull rush maneuver.

Hyudra
2011-01-09, 05:20 PM
You from america? Funny spelling of armour. :smalltongue:

Canada, eh.

Re: Remhoraz, or however you spell it, I love how it is getting all this feedback on abilities that the Purple Worm had first (and which were never commented on).

Kobold-Bard
2011-01-09, 05:26 PM
Good old canada.

Debatable, Canadian dude spat at me once.

And besides, have you ever seen a moose up close? Ugly mofo's.

Lix Lorn
2011-01-09, 05:28 PM
I mainly like Canada because of the xkcd strip.

So how about dem monster classes?

ScionoftheVoid
2011-01-09, 05:37 PM
Don't make the creature name blue.

Default creature class layout has it, I'll get to fixing it eventually.


Class Skills: The Gargoyle
’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Disguise (Cha), Hide (Dex), Listen (Wis), Spot (Wis).
There's an accidental line break there, between Gargoyle and 's.

Format changes are hellish. Will be fixed sometime soon.


Proficiencies:
You from the UK? Funny spelling of armor.

Yes I am. Incidentally, that is an odd way of spelling "armour". May be changed when everything else is done.


Gargoyle Body:
You state, in two separate areas of the text, that the claws do 1d4 damage, and that they get +1.5 x Str mod to damage. I'd just say they do 1d4 + 1.5 x Str mod damage.
You state "their secondary natural weapons (if any) add (0.5 X Str mod)." -- This may cause conflicts in the text of any natural attacks you pick up (say, from Horrid Monster or Creature of Legend) which might have different values.
Why is their natural armor so low?

First, I'll change that slightly.

Second, "Any secondary natural weapons gained through the class abilities of the Gargoyle class add 0.5 X Str modifier to damage" a good enough fix for you?

Third, so that Tough Skin is actually useful. I had a contradiction between it and the default value and was advised to have the default lower. I can raise Tough Skin to twice Con mod, if you wish, or I can add armour proficiency (I didn't give it armour proficiency, right? It's been a while since I looked it over too closely). Or both, whatever.


Chiseled Armaments:
"A Gargoyle's form is constantly chipped and repaired, each time becoming more powerful." -- This is confusing and weird. Who or what's repairing it? Why is it becoming more powerful?
Butchery:
I'm being nitpicky here, but there's concrete advantages to be gained through this, beyond the natural attack. Consider that I could take 'hoof', gain two legs, and get a bonus to avoid being tripped.
The name Butchery doesn't quite fit the granted ability.
Oversized Weapons:
You need to state what happens to the claw damage die/str bonus/attack roll if another natural attack takes over.
I don't like all the OR in the list. It's visually distracting and annoying. Look at how the Basilisk lists the options, by contrast?

First, that's flavour text that is probably weak, considering I added it on the spur of the moment having realised that the class completely lacked it.

Second, no, you couldn't, unless you took it often enough to need more than four legs with one hoof per leg (in which case the boost is probably acceptable). I will clarify that, however, and may well stop that particular use.

Third, I do need to change it, it fit better way back when it was a Chiseled Path: Offense.

Fourth, will do.

Fifth, ditto. The Basilisk looks very nice, by the way. I'd definitely use it when it's finished. I'd offer a review if I had an eye for balance or typos.


Ability Boost:
We're striving to standardize monster entries in format. I encourage you to look at other recent monster entries and see how they handled/described stat boosts.

I shall do that ASAP, and in response to the other reviewer, I may well give another point of Con at third(? Really should have looked it over when I reposted it), assuming that's okay.


Stone Skin Fortifications:
The effects on natural weapons seems out of place, given what the abilities purport to do.
Zealous Carvings is perhaps too good. That's a big bonus to saves.
Runecarved Body: Perhaps a little unwieldy. The bonus to damage is so small as to barely matter.
Reflective Scales: Weak at early levels (You can pick it up at 2nd level, at which point it's just a hide bonus), offers a very small window of passable benefit (Mid levels) and is then useless as you approach higher level (Where half of the enemies you fight are going to be able to see through your invisibility without a sweat.).
Metabolic Redundancy: Weaksauce. Consider that the anti-critical chance is so small as to not matter for a long time, (4% at 2nd level? 40% at level 20?) and criticals don't happen ~that~ often, so it's only going to help you out once a level? Twice a level? Then figure it's really only going to save your life or swing a combat in your favor what, one in five times? It just won't come up often enough to matter, compared to stuff like DR or a good resistance.

First, true, but DR often comes with bypassing that DR, and since the Gargoyle is melee with their natural weapons, I wanted them to be able to bypass at least some forms of DR.

Second, I'll make it to one save, then? Two, maybe? Your call, honestly.

Third, I'll just have the natural weapon damage counting as elemental for the purposes of vulnerabilities then.

Fourth, I'll just have to add to it then, won't I?:smallbiggrin: A challenge that I will have to get past.

Fifth, it was originally light, medium and then heavy fortification as a Chiseled Path: Perfection, and I wanted to keep at least some part of it, but thought it would be too strong as light fort. at level two. I could make it a scaling part of Stone Cold, but don't want to abandon it completely.


Freeze:
Most intelligent foes, I imagine, are just going to coup de grace the 'dead' gargoyle.

Really? Intelligent foes coup de grace corpses? Pile them and burn them, yes, but attacking them? I wouldn't expect that. Maybe I could sneak a bit of M. Redundancy in here, active when Freezing, to ward off coup de grace and keep the ability.


Improved Chiseled Armaments:
Not sure I like growth giving you free growth by HD. Also, the flavor of a gargantuan gargoyle is... weird. It kind of runs against the flavor of the monster & several abilities (ie. Freeze).
Visage: "If they fail the save they are immune to the gaze's passive form unless they leave the area and re-enter." What's this? Passive form?
Overwhelming Stench:
I wouldn't make suppressing it a free action, or you get some weird stuff happening. Make it swift.
You contradict yourself, stating:
"Any two of the Gargoyle's natural weapons may also inflict sickening..."
and
"This effect is not added to natural weapons..."
-- Be clearer in your sentence structure.

First, I wanted all Imp. Armaments to scale (and at the same rate). Have you never seen a huge statue in a town sqare or something before? It's mainly a boost to meleeing, which is what the class is meant to do. I can change it, but I'll need suggestions.

Second, as opposed to the active use. I can probably make that clearer.

Third, what wierd stuff? Everything I can think of with the option to suppress something does it as a free action, or at least not a swift (because that's kinda nasty, particularly since a Gargoyle could easily be expected to go into ToB). I'm keeping the free action until you give examples.

Fourth, sickening and nauseated, respectively. In response to my other reviewer, I may remove this or change it significantly.

Fifth, I do not lend myself to easy understanding often, do I?


Petrifaction, I don't like - it's a whole lot of extra book-keeping and stat tracking/changes over the course of a combat. More when you're rolling the stat damage each round.

This would be in the previous section, but you did the list tags in a way which confused me.

I'll be changing it, I think. The other reviewer (I value your input, too, but it was easier to quote this post and mention yours whenever you'd made a point I thought needed mentioning) was confused by the wording, so I may make this like Wounding for Dex (or something).


Carved Mobility:
I'd honestly just give it flight. Swim speed is so situational, and not many people are going to take burrow. The latter two don't really fit the gargoyle, either.

Swim speed is found on the Kapoacinth, which is otherwise identical and therefore shouldn't have its own class. Swim speed also protects you from drowning, which could well save your life without requiring Stone Cold and its pre-determined duration. Burrow speed can be more useful in dungeons than fly speed (besides the fact that at high levels, all challenging creatures fly - faster than you, might I add - but very few burrow). I wanted to have at least three options on every list, and I rather like the choice. I'm reluctant to change this.


Stone Cold Metabolism:
It shouldn't be anything lower than a move action, actionwise.
Going from a free action to an immediate action is a downgrade, pretty much.
As is, you can turn to stone in response to an incoming attack, at high levels.

You can change form in response to an incoming attack at high levels, that's deliberate (and why I included the immediate action upgrade). I'll change it to a swift instead of free action, or maybe skip that step (it's a big jump, but immediate covers swift anyway).

Why do you say it shouldn't be lower than move?

Response finished. I'll get to work presently.

The Antigamer
2011-01-09, 06:15 PM
Canada, eh.

Re: Remhoraz, or however you spell it, I love how it is getting all this feedback on abilities that the Purple Worm had first (and which were never commented on).

Purple worm was approved before I had time to review it :smalltongue:

Gorgondantess
2011-01-09, 06:32 PM
I read it and reread it, and only saw one minor paragraph format that could be tidied up. One of the reasons we ask for critiques is because, after a considerable amount of time spent working on a monster, we're intimate enough with the entry that we'll overlook stuff. Can you be clearer?
Hmmm... must've been my mind playing tricks on me. No, that one thing was the only one I can see... but I could've sworn there was more...



I'll give it some consideration. The thought crossed my mind, I just wasn't sure what angle to take - my inclination was just to say "It'll affect an iron golem too, just refluff."
Maybe just say that it has to actually deal damage to get the effects? That would be a... passable fix.



That's intentional. Note the 'further'. Each spike will subtract 2 con, but half of that gets mended when you yank out the offending spike, the other persists as ability score damage.
...Huh. That's interesting. And pretty damn powerful. I mean, yikes con damage!:smalleek:


I discussed that in the comments. I agree it may be a touch over the top, but it's ultimately a monster with little else going for it than the petrifying gaze. Pit it against an enemy that's immune and it's just got a substandard natural attack.
That's what we have ability score mods. Just give it +5 to strength and you should be good.
Also, the natural attack is pretty damn powerful, especially with strength bonuses.


That would normally point to getting some fair Str & Con bonuses, for a creature with no fine manipulation or speech, but the hazard with con bonuses is that it's a creature with a con based special ability. If I give it 6 con over 5 levels, that's a +3 to all the DCs.
...And that's why you give it str bonuses instead.:smalltongue:
+2 con is perfectly sufficient, anyways.


I'll tweak it, though. BAB changed, strength bonuses increased in number. May lower HD size and give it more natural armor.
That would be reasonable... though in retrospect, I'd say the HD size is fine. You're going for a slow and indomitable creature, but don't want to give it too much con, so high HD size works for that.


True, but my thought was that you're affecting just the single target and you're targeting a consistently high save, which tones it down a bit.
Slow also has a single target, and targets a semi-high save.



Damn! And I really liked the gameplay dynamics & flavor of it. Now I'm gonna have to find another approach to the ability.
Don't scrap it! I liked it too. Just tweak it. Streamline!



Reworded it from "These obstacles do provide cover, but only to creatures within 30' of it." to "These obstacles can provide cover, but only for creatures within 30' of it." Changed the range to be dependent on Strength bonus rather than HD.
It's still pretty lame. I mean, grease is significantly more powerful than either of those effects. Either make them more powerful, or lose the standard+ action.



Dunno what kind of passive bonus I'd grant in that department. Don't know it's entirely fitting as a subspecies, either.
Abyssal greater basilisk? Right next to the basilisk? A core monster?:smallconfused:
Anyways, it's just an advanced basilisk with the fiendish template. Just give it a few resistances and that should be good. Maybe throw in DR/magic, too.


Well, keep in mind that you're only dropping one effect a round, as a standard action. It's not that different from the manticore's spikes, in that respect.

...Are you? It looked to me like you're dropping all three at once.


I'm gonna sit back & brainstorm a new approach to the stone/petrifying eye abilities, though. I don't want to go the medusa route, because it's just so "doing the same thing every combat", and I want some flexibility in there. I'll see what I can come up with.
No, I like what you did. It's cool, just neither balanced nor practical. Work on that.



Remhoraz, or however you spell it, I love how it is getting all this feedback on abilities that the Purple Worm had first (and which were never commented on).
I commented on all the Purple Worm's abilities. What does it have that the Remorhaz copied?

Warpwolf16
2011-01-09, 06:43 PM
Can I request something? Totem Giants?

This is a thread I'll be lurking in >w>

Gorgondantess
2011-01-09, 07:43 PM
Can I request something? Totem Giants?

This is a thread I'll be lurking in >w>

Are those an official monster? If so, what book?

Hyudra
2011-01-09, 08:37 PM
Maybe just say that it has to actually deal damage to get the effects? That would be a... passable fix.

Works.


That's what we have ability score mods. Just give it +5 to strength and you should be good.

Also, the natural attack is pretty damn powerful, especially with strength bonuses.

Oh? I dunno, I find myself comparing to a greatsword wielder with full BAB, and finding it falls short, especially after the greatsword wielder has iterative attacks and enhancement bonuses.


Slow also has a single target, and targets a semi-high save.

Slow

Transmutation
Level: Brd 3, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Targets: One creature/level, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes


It's still pretty lame. I mean, grease is significantly more powerful than either of those effects. Either make them more powerful, or lose the standard+ action.

It's worth emphasizing that you're a class that imposes slow and movement hampering effects leading up to petrifaction. A patch of difficult terrain will prevent a charge and keep enemies at bay long enough for you to lay down the petrifaction effects.


Abyssal greater basilisk? Right next to the basilisk? A core monster?:smallconfused:

I always viewed that more as showing off a template (like the Legendary Minotaur) rather than saying "Hey, this is a common thing related to Basilisks".


...Are you? It looked to me like you're dropping all three at once.

Ah, now I see your issue with the degree of rolling/effects.

No, laying down, say, Craggy Look, would be an action independent of any of the other Stone Eye abilities. So you could pile on Sedimentary Seeing or whatever I called it, and that would impose a fatigue condition (Using it first because you know it to be a typically weaker save). Then you could, next turn, use Heavy Glare to add the slow. So long as the two conditions overlapped, the target would be petrified.


I commented on all the Purple Worm's abilities. What does it have that the Remorhaz copied?

Actually, IIRC, when you commented on the Purple Worm, I made a point of the fact that you hadn't commented on Sinuous or Flexible. IIRC, Flexible has been cribbed & used on the Remorhaz, and now it's getting a lot of attention.

bladesmith
2011-01-09, 09:44 PM
I did kinda crib the bit about a non-speaking remorhaz, too. Though that hasn't got as many comments. Though Flexible really hasn't caught all that much flak, either.


Whoah there, maybe scale back the strength bonus a bit?Do you really think it needs it? I was shooting for the sort of Strength bonuses that would make it pretty easy to take the Awesome Blow feat, but if you think so, I can slow down the Strength progression.


Maybe some re-wording here. I think you mean "As a swift action, a Remorhaz can activate his heat aura, which lasts for a number of rounds equal to 5+Con modifier. Anything touching the Remorhaz takes 2d6 points of fire damage. Creatures striking a Remorhaz with natural attacks or unarmed attacks are subject to this damage, but creatures striking with melee weapons do not take damage from the remorhaz’s heat. The damage increases by 1d6 every two levels, becoming 3d6 at 4th level, 4d6 at 6th level, etc. The Remorhaz can use this abilty 1/day/3HD(minimum 1), and is fatigued for a number of rounds equal to the rounds spent using Heat."

I'm not sure I agree with the Remorhaz being fatigued for so long after using Heat. Also, you need to note what action it takes to end Heat.
Done. Because that just sounds a lot better. As for the fatigue, I was just thinking about Rage while I wrote that. Still kinda iffy about it, but I took it out for now. And added a bit about it being a free action to end Heat.

Not so sure about this ability...I'm changing it up. See below.

I like the idea, but when would it want to occupy irregular shaped spaces?I imagine it would mostly be a tactical decision. When you need to fill a wider hallway to keep the bad guys from getting past you. Giving more people flanking bonuses. Stuff like that. It fit the flavor, and gave the Remorhaz something to do after they charge in and alpha strike.:smalltongue:

I'd give burrow 10' at 5th level, and burrow 20' at 7th level, but that's just me.Sounds good. Gets the progression in while you are still in the class. On the other hand, I kinda like the slower progression... Eh, I think I'll keep it as is for now, but keep this in mind.

Say until the beginning of its next turn to be clearer about when it ends. Also, I'd make the extended reach depend upon HD somehow, and the penalty to AC dependent on how far it extends the reach.Fixed, hopefully. Rather then making the reach depend on AC, I used size as the requisite modifier. It seemed to make more sense to me. I'm a little worried about growth spells and what not, but I don't think that will be to significant of a factor. I will come back and look at the wording later, though. I'm pretty sure I can do that better.

Is this in addition to, or in place of, moving the 5' backwards?In addition to. Fixed.

Note that they take Heat damage even if the Remorhaz isn't currently using the Heat ability.Good catch. Mix-up from back when Heat was on all the time.

I like this, it seems fun, but the range increment needs to be scaled down a bit, and it needs a recharge time.Thanks! I was kinda proud of this one. I cut down the range, and made the magma usage a fixed range, rather then incremented. Because I didn't want to have to figure whether it was a thrown weapon or launched weapon, and how many increments it could travel. As for the recharge time, what do you think? Instinct tells me one minute, but I'd like to hear your thoughts.


For the Remorhaz, I'd make Ambush work, rather than as an ill-defined Fort save (what kind of bonus would "stable" creatures get?) you make it work as part of a bull rush maneuver.
That... Is altogether to smart. I changed that. Although I noted that it doesn't work with Rush because that seemed a little cheesy to me.

Makiru
2011-01-09, 11:06 PM
Are those an official monster? If so, what book?

Magic of Incarnum. After the debacle with the soulspark and its non-OGL-ness, though, it might not be worth the effort, at least not at this moment with so many other creatures left to work on.

bladesmith
2011-01-09, 11:07 PM
Quick Basilisk review, because basilisk's rock. Pun completely intended.:smallbiggrin:

1) This class screams "Tank". You could probably bump up the nat. armor by 1 or 2 if you wanted. Otherwise, the basics look pretty good. If you could think of a way for the basilisk to speak, though, that would be cool. There are a lot of other monsters here that don't speak in their natural forms, but manage in the monster class.
2) I'll admit, that at first glance then Slow affect does seem a bit overpowered, compared to the others, but I don't think it matters all that much in the long run. You may want to note whether or not Sedimentary Sight stacks with itself(does 2 uses= exhausted?) for us idiots. Oh, and pretty sure its already been said, but some text saying that you can only use one at a time would be nice. On the other hand, I like that you can actually petrify things with multiple uses, and the Dex damage will slow down a lot of the faster creatures that Basilisks would have trouble with.
3) Eight Clawed is awesome. Basilisks just roll over everything.
4) I think its been said before, but you may want to change it to simply ignoring hardness. Or perhaps hardness less then 20. Or something.
5) Slow metabolism is pretty cool. Makes sure that you aren't going to be easily stopped by some silly failed fort save any time soon.
6) Geomorphic Gaze... Really doesn't do much. Perhaps if you the area affected was bigger, it would be worth the time, but... I dunno. Making it a move action might be a good idea. Spare a glance for the scenery before turning deadly eyes on your foe. As a side note, another affect could do something like caltrops. Making blades of grass into sharpened stone spikes would be pretty wicked.
7) Deliberate Advance keeps the basilisk rolling. I like.
8) Subspecies are neat, give extra options, and seem balanced. There's not much more to say.
9) Torpid nature comes nice and early enough to deal with those things that really annoy a good tank: will saves. Getting to stay up an extra round before Sleep, not getting Confused for an extra round... An excellent addition to the monster that doesn't stop.
10) I like the abilities in Petrifying Gaze. The only one that doesn't make much sense to me is Lithic Stare. Its like a Slow effect, except you pick which type of action that they can't take. So I guess it kinda makes sense... Handy for making sure the bad guy doesn't get away, or the big guy doesn't kill your mage... Okay. I can understand that. Carry on. Also, copypasta error with Crushing Glower, unless you want it to switch to Dexterity damage later. Also, does your full power gaze attack affect allies, too? Or just enemies?

This class is the M1 Abrams of monsters. Slow and a little ponderous, but it just keeps crawling over everything, laying down devastating ranged attacks until the enemy slows enough for the basilisk to crunch them beneath its eight clawed feet. You did a pretty good job of working your way up to the petrifying gaze, and there is plenty of flavor ideas here for me. I approve.

AugustNights
2011-01-10, 01:05 PM
Back from travels. Lost a bunch of suggestions last night. Should have some up by tomorrow.

Edit: Lycanthropy curse thing: Probably not the place for it. Therianthropy is looking more and more out of the direct scope of the project, if the council wouldn't mind, and when I get enough free time, I intend to open a Therianthropic sister thread akin to the Homebrew Sister thread. Of course, that could take some serious time as that I am devoting more of my time to a revision of weapons and the half-golem revamp.

mootoall
2011-01-10, 01:06 PM
I know there's a stigma about it, but you might want to give the Remorhaz Imp. Bull Rush as a bonus feat, since it seems like that's a big part of its game. And regarding the Basilisk- Reading Bladesmith's review, I think that it might not be a good idea to reduce its BAB and give it a trample attack. Removes the problem of little actual damage dealing for a tank, and gives it more options/incentives to knock someone prone.

ScionoftheVoid
2011-01-10, 01:57 PM
Changes have been made to the Gargoyle. They're small (in general), but there are a fair few, including removing the blue from "Gargoyle" and standardising the Con boosts (of which there are now two, in case you hadn't guessed).

Hazzardevil
2011-01-10, 02:16 PM
Being a big fan of this series of threads I have a question.
What is that little guy in the picture for the iron golem?
It has made me wonder for a while and I don't have a clue what it is.

mootoall
2011-01-10, 02:18 PM
It's a flesh golem, and it's eight feet high.

Kobold-Bard
2011-01-10, 02:18 PM
Being a big fan of this series of threads I have a question.
What is that little guy in the picture for the iron golem?
It has made me wonder for a while and I don't have a clue what it is.

Flesh Golem.

Gorgondantess
2011-01-10, 02:19 PM
Being a big fan of this series of threads I have a question.
What is that little guy in the picture for the iron golem?
It has made me wonder for a while and I don't have a clue what it is.

I'd answer, but I'm deathly afraid of ninjas swordsages, apparently.:smalleek::smalltongue:



I know there's a stigma about it, but you might want to give the Remorhaz Imp. Bull Rush as a bonus feat, since it seems like that's a big part of its game.
Or, better yet, give it an ability that allows it to do something that's actually cool. Like, I donno, a slam attack that'll push them back a number of feet equal to the damage it did/2. Or something like that.

And regarding the Basilisk- Reading Bladesmith's review, I think that it might not be a good idea to reduce its BAB and give it a trample attack. Removes the problem of little actual damage dealing for a tank, and gives it more options/incentives to knock someone prone.
I agree. Also, it doesn't fit the fluff.

mootoall
2011-01-10, 02:21 PM
I'd answer, but I'm deathly afraid of ninjas.:smalleek::smalltongue: Please sir, we're swordsages. And FIVE SHADOW CREEPING ICE ENERVATION STRIKE!

Hazzardevil
2011-01-10, 02:48 PM
I lolled about the whole pickiness of what you are.
Why do they call ninjas swordsages of this forum?

The Antigamer
2011-01-10, 02:50 PM
I lolled about the whole pickiness of what you are.
Why do they call ninjas swordsages of this forum?

Because swordsages are more powerful than ninjas.

mootoall
2011-01-10, 02:53 PM
I lolled about the whole pickiness of what you are. Why do they call ninjas swordsages of this forum? Mostly because of the ToB love we seem to share. Oh, and regarding my post about the basilisk- I actually meant it might not be a bad idea. I mean, it's going for the "unstoppable tank of rolling doom" feel to me, and with the "Eight Clawed" ability it looks like it should be able to ... y'know ... do something with them.

Hyudra
2011-01-10, 03:37 PM
Oh, and regarding my post about the basilisk- I actually meant it might not be a bad idea. I mean, it's going for the "unstoppable tank of rolling doom" feel to me, and with the "Eight Clawed" ability it looks like it should be able to ... y'know ... do something with them.

The Basilisk is more artillery than steamroller. There's more fitting creatures for trample.

Also, I wrote up a reply to Bladesmith last night, but apparently it didn't go through. Damn.

To paraphrase: Thank you very much for the positive review, Bladesmith. I'm glad I got the 'slow and steady' and the 'sorta-tanky' feel across. No, sedimentary sight doesn't stack with itself (I'm 90% sure I explicitly stated that in the description).

As far as the caltrop idea, I really like it, but I find it hard to justify in, say, a dungeon with stone floors & a little dust. I can maybe buy the basilisk kicking up a plume of dust with its tail and turning dust to stone, fusing it to itself and making for unreliable and crumbling ground (kind of like walking through snow that's crusted over on top). Turning the same terrain into caltrops would be harder to sell, I think. Which leaves the option of having that incongruency or having the basilisk be terrain dependent, which is ick. I hate class features that are situational; turn undead (in ravenloft vs. a campaign with no undead), favored enemy, black dragon monster class's benefits in water, etc.). Don't want to go that route, however well the ability might fit.

Chumplump: If you want to move the Lycanthropy material over, that would work well.

Saidoro
2011-01-10, 05:15 PM
No one else has anything to say about the cloaker?

The Antigamer
2011-01-10, 07:00 PM
No one else has anything to say about the cloaker?

I'll review it for you later, but try to refrain from asking for reviews, it makes Gorgondantess eat kittens :smallwink:
Like it says in the opening post, reviewing others monsters makes them want to review yours.


Quick question Hyudra, why is Wendigo on the unfinished list? I thought it was approved in the last thread?

Hyudra
2011-01-10, 07:29 PM
Quick question Hyudra, why is Wendigo on the unfinished list? I thought it was approved in the last thread?

I copied over the unfinished list from the previous thread. Still need to sit down with Gorgon & perhaps some of the other veteran monster class makers, work out which should be added to the list, which were confirmed as being in good enough shape to warrant addition.

Saidoro
2011-01-10, 09:36 PM
Half Elemental Template (Manual of the Planes p.189)

Class

Prerequisites:
Special: Heritage tracing to the appropriate elemental plane.
It's half elemental, not part elemental. Also, consider a ritual option as half-fiend or half-celestial.

HD: d8
{table]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Feature
1|+ 0|+0*|+0*|+0*| Elemental Body, Elemental Power, Ability Increases
2|+ 1|+0*|+0*|+0*| Elemental Magic [/table]

Class Skills: (4 + Int. Mod.) x4 at first level. The Half Elemental’s class skills are Balance, Climb, Concentration, Knowledge (Nature), Knowledge (the Planes), and Survival.

In addition to these, Half Elemental may add additional skills to there their class skills list depending on their type.

Air: a half Air Elemental adds Jump and Tumble to its list of class skills.

Earth: a half Earth Elemental adds Appraise and Balance to its list of class skills.

Fire: a half Fire Elemental adds Bluff and Intimidate to its list of class skills

Water: a half Water Elemental adds Escape Artist and Swim to its list of class skills.

Class Features
Proficiencies: the half elemental is proficient with simple and martial weapons, as will well as light armor; but not shields.

Elemental Body: Unlike other monster classes, the creature's original racial traits are retained. The Half Elemental’s type is changed to outsider, and he gains all traits and abilities associated with the type. You need to specify native outsider. All half elementals receive +4 racial to fortitude saves made to resist poison. All half elemental also receive a bonus it its armor class in the form of a natural armor bonus equal to its constitution modifier.

In addition, each Half Elemental receives additional bonuses depending on its type.

Air: Half Air Elementals have the [Air] subtype and are immune to electricity damage and damage taken as a result of falling. In addition to this, at 6 HD, the air elemental gains the ability to fly as a speed of 60ft. with average maneuverability.

Earth: Half Earth Elementals have the [Earth] subtype and are immune to acid damage. In addition, half earth elementals have a burrow speed of 10ft. This speed increases by 10 additional feet for every 2 HD the elemental gains after the first two. At high levels this becomes far faster than any of the others. Consider capping it at base land speed.

Fire: Half Fire Elementals have the [Fire] subtype and are immune to fire damage. In addition, at 4 HD, and for every 4 HD thereafter, the half fire elemental's base land speed increases by 10ft.

Water: Half Water Elementals have the [Water] subtype and are immune to cold damage. Half Water Elementals have swim speeds equal to their base land speed and can breathe underwater as well as on land. In addition, Half Water Elementals receive a +8 racial bonus to swim checks and may always take 10 on swim check, even if rushed or threatened.

Lastly, Each Half Elemental has improved base saving throw scores depending on its type.

Air: The reflex save progression granted by the Half Elemental Monster Class increases to good.

Earth: The fortitude save progression granted by the Half Elemental Monster Class increases to good.

Fire: The will save progression granted by the Half Elemental Monster Class increases to good.

Water: The reflex save progression granted by the Half Elemental Monster Class increases to good.

Elemental Power (Su): Half Elementals have great powers granted by their elemental heritages. Each half elemental receives a one of the following abilities depending on its type.

Air: Force of Nature (Su): Blows made by the Half Air Elemental carry the awesome force of raging winds. Whenever the air elemental deals damage with a melee attack to a target no more than one size category larger than the Half Air Elemental must make a successful balance check (DC = 10 = Damage dealt) or be moved back 5ft. Movement forced in this way does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Building on what Hyudra said, perhaps make it not kick in until the end of a full attack and then have it throw them a distance based on how many time you hit.

Earth: Stability (Ex): Half Earth Elementals are as stable and immovable as the earth itself. All half earth elementals receive a bonus to rolls made to resist Bullrush and being knocked prone equal to 5 + ½ their HD. Consider making them better at bullrushing, not just at resisting bullrushes.

Fire: Burn (Su): The body of the half fire elemental radiate incredible heat. Creatures struck by a melee attack from a half fire elemental take an additional amount of fire damage equal to the half fire elemental’s charisma modifier. This sort of thing usually hurts enemies attacking with natural weapons as well.

Water: Flowing Form (Ex): Half-Water Elementals can make their body fluid and amorphous, allowing them to squeeze through tight spaces. Half-Water Elementals receive a bonus to escape artist checks equal to 5 + 1/2 their HD. This bonus doubles for checks made to squeeze through a tight area.

Ability Increases: Each half elemental gains a bonus to its ability scores depending on its type.

Air: Half Air Elementals receive a permanent increase of +1 to their dexterity score at each level.

Earth: Half Earth Elementals receive a permanent increase of +1 to their strength score at each level.

Fire: Half Fire Elementals receive a permanent increase of +1 to their charisma score at each level. Fire Elves, Fire Hobgoblins and Fire Genasi all have charisma penalties and intelligence bonuses.

Water: Half Water Elementals receive a permanent increase of +1 to their constitution score at each level.

Elemental Magic (Sp): Each Half Elemental possesses powerful magic, allowing it control the forces of its elemental. The half elemental gains a set of spell-like abilities granted as it increases in HD. These spell like abilities vary depending on its element. The save DC for these abilities are 10 + 1/2 the Half Elemental's HD + the Half Elemental's Charisma modifier.

Plane Shift is a boring capstone ability, clerics could do that for the last ten levels and wizards for the last 6. Consider Gate(travel version only). Or maybe Shapechange into appropriately subtyped creatures only.

HALF AIR ELEMENTAL
{table=head]HD |Spell-like Ability|Uses Per Day

1|
Obscuring Mist|
1/day/2 HD (minimum 1)

3|
Wind Wall|
1/day/2 HD

5|
Gaseous Form|
1/day/4 HD

7|
Air Walk|
1/day/4 HD

9|
Control Winds|
1/day/5 HD

11|
Chain Lightning|
1/day/6 HD

13|
Control Weather|
1/day/6 HD

15|
Whirlwind|
1/day/6 HD

17|
Elemental Swarm*|
1/day/10 HD

19|
Plane Shift|
1/day/10 HD[/table]
*Cast as Air spell only.

HALF EARTH ELEMENTAL
{table=head]HD |Spell-like Ability|Uses Per Day

1|
Magic Stone|
1/day/2 HD (minimum 1)

3|
Soften Stone and Earth|
1/day/2 HD

5|
Stone Shape|
1/day/4 HD

7|
Spike Stones|
1/day/4 HD

9|
Wall of Stone|
1/day/5 HD

11|
Stoneskin|
1/day/6 HD

13|
Earthquake|
1/day/6 HD

15|
Iron Body|
1/day/6 HD

17|
Elemental Swarm*|
1/day/10 HD

19|
Plane Shift|
1/day/10 HD[/table]
*Cast as Earth spell only.

HALF FIRE ELEMENTAL
{table=head]HD |Spell-like Ability|Uses Per Day

1|
Burning Hands|
1/day/2 HD (minimum 1)

3|
Produce Flames|
1/day/2 HD

5|
Flaming Sphere|
1/day/4 HD

7|
Wall of Fire|
1/day/4 HD

9|
Fire Shield|
1/day/5 HD

11|
Fire Seeds|
1/day/6 HD

13|
Firestorm|
1/day/6 HD

15|
Incendiary Cloud|
1/day/6 HD

17|
Elemental Swarm*|
1/day/10 HD

19|
Plane Shift|
1/day/10 HD[/table]
*Cast as Fire spell only.

HALF WATER ELEMENTAL
{table=head]HD |Spell-like Ability|Uses Per Day

1|
Obscuring Mist|
1/day/2 HD (minimum 1)

3|
Fog Cloud|
1/day/2 HD

5|
Water Breathing|
1/day/4 HD

7|
Control Water|
1/day/4 HD

9|
Ice Storm|
1/day/5 HD

11|
Cone of Cold|
1/day/6 HD

13|
Acid Fog|
1/day/6 HD

15|
Horrid Wilting|
1/day/6 HD

17|
Elemental Swarm*|
1/day/10 HD

19|
Plane Shift|
1/day/10 HD[/table]
*Cast as Water spell only.



Comments in blue

Hyudra
2011-01-10, 09:55 PM
Saidoro's comments are on target. Also spotted:

"All half elemental also receive a bonus it its armor class in the form of a natural armor bonus equal to its constitution modifier."

You want 'all half elementals', 'to their' armor class and a natural armor bonus equal to 'their' constitution modifier.

The Antigamer
2011-01-10, 10:27 PM
Cloaker


Hit Dice: d8

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Cloaker Body, Engulf, Engulfing Leap, +1 Str

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|Shadow Shift, +1 Con

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+3|Improved Engulf, +1 Str

4th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|Flight, +1 Con

5th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|Moan, Growth, +1 Str [/table]

Skills Points at 1rst Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier) x 4
Skills Points at Each Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier)
Class Skills: The Cloaker’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Disguise (Cha), Hide (Dex), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Spot (Wis)

Proficiencies: The Cloaker is proficient only with its natural weapons.

Cloaker Class Features: The following are the Class Features of the cloaker.

Cloaker Body: The Cloaker loses all other racial traits and acquires aberration traits, giving it darkvision 60 ft. Cloakers begin as medium creatures with base land speed of 10 ft, a bite attack that deals 1d3+str damage and a tail slap that deals 1d4+str damage. Either the tail slap or the bite can be the Cloaker's primary weapon at a given point in time, but both can't be the primary weapon at the same time. Cloakers get a natural armor bonus equal to their constitution modifier.
Make one or the other primary is what I would do. Save headaches. Also, a 5' or 10' climb speed would not be amiss, I believe, to tide it over til flight.

Cloakers are virtually indistinguishable from a normal black cloak, they gain a +10 on disguise checks to appear as a normal cloak, and may choose to count as only half their weight for the purposes of calculating encumbrance f worn.
Typo

Engulf: A cloaker can try to wrap a creature at least one size category smaller than it in its body as a standard action. The cloaker attempts a grapple that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and bites the engulfed victim with a +4 bonus on its attack roll. It can still use its whiplike tail to strike at other targets.

Attacks that hit an engulfing cloaker deal half their damage to the monster and half to the trapped victim.
Seems good, nothing to see here.

Engulfing Leap: As a full round action a cloaker can fly up to 40' at a target and attempt to engulf them. Feats or abilities that enhance a charge attack can also enhance this action.
At 3 HD this ability can be used to fly up to 60'.
At 6 HD it can be used to fly up to twice the cloaker's fastest movement speed or 80', whichever is greater.
Not sure about the scaling leap thing. Also, why is jump not a class skill?

Shadow Shift: Beginning at 2nd level the cloaker can manipulate shadows. While in shadowy areas the cloaker can use the following abilities:
Silent Image: The cloaker can use Silent image as a spell-like ability once per day per HD. Save DC 10 + 1/2HD+cha mod. At 5 HD this becomes at will.
Obscure Vision: A cloaker may use a swift action to gain concealment for 1d4 rounds once per day per 2 HD. At 10 HD this becomes at will.
Dancing Images: At 4 HD the cloaker can use mirror image as a spell-like ability once per day per 3 HD. At 12 HD this becomes at will.
At 8 HD these abilities can be used regardless of lighting conditions.
It can't use dancing images until third level, correct? I'd note that, just to avoid confusion. Also, I'm against such a low HD for uses regardless of shadows

Improved Engulf: At third level the Cloaker becomes better at containing its foes. Engulf can now be used on creatures of the cloaker's size or smaller. Also, the cloaker's bite can now be used to make iterative attacks against any foe the cloaker is grappling while it is a primary weapon.
Couldn't it already?

Flight: Starting at fourth level the cloaker can fly at a speed of 40' with average maneuverability.

Moan: From fifth level cloakers gain the ability to emit a dangerous subsonic moan as a standard action. The cloaker can use these abilities a total number of times per day equal to its HD.
Combined, or each?

Cloakers are immune to these sonic, mind affecting attacks. Unless otherwise specified, a creature that successfully saves against one of these effects cannot be affected by the same moan from the same cloaker for 24 hours. All save DCs are 10+1/2HD+cha mod. The cloaker can cause four different effects:
Unnerve: Anyone within a 60-foot spread automatically takes a -2 penalty on attack and damage rolls. Those forced to hear the moan for more than 6 consecutive rounds must succeed on a Will save or enter a trance, unable to attack or defend themselves until the moaning stops.
Fear: Anyone within a 30-foot spread must succeed on a Will save or become panicked for 2 rounds.
Nausea: Anyone in a 30-foot cone must succeed on a Fortitude save or be overcome by nausea and weakness.
Affected characters fall prone and become nauseated for 1d4+1 rounds.
Stupor: A single creature within 30 feet of the cloaker must succeed on a Fortitude save or be affected as though by a hold monster spell for 5 rounds. Even after a successful save, the creature must repeat the save if the cloaker uses this effect again.

Growth: A fifth level cloaker grows to large size. Its reach, grapple modifiers, natural attack damage and skills change accordingly, but it doesn't gain any ability score bonuses or penalties.


Comments/Changelog:
Comments
A classic monster with 5 levels and 4 major abilities, not terribly difficult. Still, it's my first homebrew, so there's probably something wrong with it.

Areas of concern:
Do engulfing leap and the ability to be carried give it enough maneuverability until it starts flying? should I up it's move speed?
Maybe. Like I said, a small climb speed might be nice, so it can hang on walls/ceilings.
Should the shadow shift abilities be at will right from the beginning? Should they never be at will? Is my current scheme the right idea but given at the wrong levels?
I think your current setup works except for the ability to use them without shadows at 8th level.
The nausea and stupor moans seem like they shouldn't be gained until a few HD later, but I have no idea when.
I'm not sure if that's completely necessary. You can fiddle with it though.
The cloaker has a lot of abilities keyed to Charisma, should I be giving boosts to that instead of/in addition to boosts to con and dex?
You have boosts to con and strength. A cha boost at 3HD and 5HD might work, if nothing else is changed



Comments in red.
Like you said, not much innovation going on, but a solid rendition of a monster for a first attempt :smallsmile:

One thing I might suggest; I've always been a fan of villains wearing cloakers. Maybe a synergy ability with a host in addition to growth at 5th level? Or a feat or ACF?

Saidoro
2011-01-10, 11:18 PM
Make one or the other primary is what I would do. Save headaches
You're the second person to say this so you probably have a point, ah well.


Also, a 5' or 10' climb speed would not be amiss, I believe, to tide it over til flight.
That would play well with their general ambushyness.


Seems good, nothing to see here.
Huzzah.


Not sure about the scaling leap thing. Also, why is jump not a class skill?
Scaling leap is to keep it relevant after you get the 40ft fly speed, I could cut it down to just a single increase at 4HD, would that be better? Because I didn't think of that.


It can't use dancing images until third level, correct? I'd note that, just to avoid confusion. Also, I'm against such a low HD for uses regardless of shadows
Correct. Okay.


Couldn't it already?
Before it could only engulf things smaller than it and/or natural weapons can't normally make iterative attacks.


Combined, or each?
Combined.


Maybe. Like I said, a small climb speed might be nice, so it can hang on walls/ceilings.
And coat racks, can't forget coat racks.


I think your current setup works except for the ability to use them without shadows at 8th level.
Okay.


I'm not sure if that's completely necessary. You can fiddle with it though.
They seemed powerful at the time, but I've since compared them to stinking cloud and suggestion. Disregard that line.


You have boosts to con and strength. A cha boost at 3HD and 5HD might work, if nothing else is changed
Okay.

I'll implement these changes. Thanks for the review.

AugustNights
2011-01-11, 01:21 PM
Flesh golem

While she’s a relatively solid melee tank build, she’s also relatively vanilla.
There isn’t much new brought to the table by playing a Flesh-golem, and it seems like you’ve left a lot of potential floating about. Remember this guy isn’t an ordinary flesh-golem, it’s an adventurer! Think of the potential presented by a amalgamation of corpses animated by electricity…
Can it do more than heal with electricity damage, such as gain strength, speed, or backlash attacks?
Can it make a shocking attack?
Can it unstitch its limbs and animate them?
Can it hide cookies in its lower lumbar cavity?
Can it hide one of its eyes in a jar of jellied eels in order to spy on the local pub?
Can it ghoulify an ogre’s corpse to gain it’s strength?
What a medusa’s face to gain a petrification eye?
Can it sew more limbs to it’self?
Can it sew a sweet blue cape?
Can it tap into its muscle memory to play the flute or other woodwind instrument?
What about other skills?
Can it hunt down doctors and strangle their relatives?
Can it demand a bride?
Can it create its own bride?
Can it do the farm work for a small family and be accepted by the blind old guy only to be run off by the young buck husband?
Can it stitch leather to itself? (I don’t know why, but I’d do that.)
Can it graft weapons to its partially metal frame?
Can it exchange purposely ambiguous body parts with Gene Wilder?
Can it trick people into thinking its name is the same as the person who created it?
Can it be created by a 14 year old girl who feared that science shouldn’t try and push it’s luck?
Can it hold a swarm within its belly?
Can it distract the boogey man with a removed sexy leg, while its hands untie Santa Claus?

A good place to look for some great inspiration is Lappy 9000’s Soul-stitched, and their racial feats.


Quasi God

Love the idea. Kobold Bard never stop homebrewing. Ever.
~Love the point-buy system, works out really well.
~1st nitpick, pronouns change a lot, sometimes in mid-sentence, between ‘you’ and ‘they’
~3rd level has Divine Companion on the table, rather than Manifestation of Divinity.
~5th level abilities are listed as 6th level abilities in description.
~As that Undead and Constructs would be Extraplanar anywhere besides the prime material plane it would not be at all game-breaking to give them the native subtype of the plane they’re ‘home’ at and give them the extraplanar subtype everywhere else. (The subtype does very little besides, as far as I can tell, differentiate between spells and effects that target them, and those are super situational. I think)
~Ability score bonus, the unnamed one, can it be multiple abilities or is it meant to only be one… for example
At levels 1, 3 & 5 gain +1 strength
Or
At level 1 gain +1 strength
At level 3 gain +1 charisma
At level 5 gain +1 sandwich-eating-score-that-the-DM-houserules.
~ Divine Companion: I’m personally not keen on the +1 HD or change option at each level, particularly due to the implied entry text that seems to suggest that the animal companion is similar to that of a Druid’s class feature of same name of effective Druid Level equal to ECL (or HD in this system) of the Quasi-god, and because I further would infer that this implies the bonus HD, Tricks, and other goodies of being an animal companion.
~Aura of Divinity: Cool, reminds me of the marshal and I loved that class… still trying to retool it but I digress.
~Divine Travel: Plane shift uses per day and wording is a bit funny I don’t quite understand when the power is allowed to the Quasi-god, or if it works off of Greater teleport, the issue may come from an unclosed ()s.
~Personal Plane: Hell yes. I’d say since it’s personal, and stuff can’t transfer you could also allow the QD to be in charge of magical effects (dead magic, wild magic, ect) and gravity (subjective, objective, sideways, centric, ect). However time is best left out of the QD’s control. Time is super easy to abuse. Also, the reading of the home-plane makes for it to be a great way to kill things that rely on food, water, or air, as that they don’t receive the benefits of anything taken while inside the home plane… a cruel DM might say the air doesn’t take, a less cruel DM might still mess with the water/thirst or food/hunger effects of such a rule.
~ Hamper the Competition: Fun!
~ Divine Dealings: So in Sandman, the endless can call on eachother and talk, right? I kinda see the ability to call on any deity and chat as a cool power… what I’m trying to say is it might be cool if it could ‘contact other plane’ for deities of other alignments to talk, but the deity on the other side is not compelled to tell the truth or even answer.
~Closing Clause of Immortality is confusing. Does the QD get all of these abilities it qualifies for, or just one that it both chooses and qualifies for?
Overall awesome… My players will know about this class. Great options, and as I tend to say, there could always be more!

Basalisk
Love the pic, somewhat creepy, and hauntingly remorseful almost. Speaks to me as a Player Character Class all the way… Also makes me wonder about combining a chameleon and a basilisk for my next batch of saps… I mean players.
~Stone Eye: Craggy look seems more powerful that the other two to me, and would probably serve better as a standard part of the look, with the other two as singe choice options… of course not necessary, but I imagine most players will use it like that anyhow. Option is made at each use, yes?
~Geomorphic Gaze is, like all of the other abilities, very cool, and interesting, but I feel it could present more options… also its lead in text made me excited for the ability to petrify undead or constructs of organic materials... maybe it’s better off that it cannot… but its something a player would look at and say ‘Hey! If it can petrify dirt…”
Otherwise it looks like a very fun and interesting class, how you manage to turn 1 trick ponies into beasts of many options I’m not certain, but keep it up!

Right… so that was considerably less reviews in an amount of time than I thought I would be able to do… if you want me to look over your beast, and make my humble suggestions, PM me, otherwise I’ll probably pick through them slowly by interest.

Kobold-Bard
2011-01-11, 02:11 PM
...
Quasi God

Love the idea. Kobold Bard never stop homebrewing. Ever.

Aww shucks :smallredface:

~Love the point-buy system, works out really well.

Thanks.

~1st nitpick, pronouns change a lot, sometimes in mid-sentence, between ‘you’ and ‘they’

Yeah, I do that. I'll give it another proofread and try to get the rest of them.

~3rd level has Divine Companion on the table, rather than Manifestation of Divinity.

Fixed.

~5th level abilities are listed as 6th level abilities in description.

Crud, fixed.

~As that Undead and Constructs would be Extraplanar anywhere besides the prime material plane it would not be at all game-breaking to give them the native subtype of the plane they’re ‘home’ at and give them the extraplanar subtype everywhere else. (The subtype does very little besides, as far as I can tell, differentiate between spells and effects that target them, and those are super situational. I think)

I get your point, but since they're not Outsiders it seems a bit weird.

~Ability score bonus, the unnamed one, can it be multiple abilities or is it meant to only be one… for example
At levels 1, 3 & 5 gain +1 strength
Or
At level 1 gain +1 strength
At level 3 gain +1 charisma
At level 5 gain +1 sandwich-eating-score-that-the-DM-houserules.

Added a bit saying it can be any stat each time.

~ Divine Companion: I’m personally not keen on the +1 HD or change option at each level, particularly due to the implied entry text that seems to suggest that the animal companion is similar to that of a Druid’s class feature of same name of effective Druid Level equal to ECL (or HD in this system) of the Quasi-god, and because I further would infer that this implies the bonus HD, Tricks, and other goodies of being an animal companion.

I see your point. Still going to let them change it each level unless that gets another vote against it.

~Aura of Divinity: Cool, reminds me of the marshal and I loved that class… still trying to retool it but I digress.

Based it on the Deity Aura ability, but that's cool.

~Divine Travel: Plane shift uses per day and wording is a bit funny I don’t quite understand when the power is allowed to the Quasi-god, or if it works off of Greater teleport, the issue may come from an unclosed ()s.

Fixed.

~Personal Plane: Hell yes. I’d say since it’s personal, and stuff can’t transfer you could also allow the QD to be in charge of magical effects (dead magic, wild magic, ect) and gravity (subjective, objective, sideways, centric, ect). However time is best left out of the QD’s control. Time is super easy to abuse. Also, the reading of the home-plane makes for it to be a great way to kill things that rely on food, water, or air, as that they don’t receive the benefits of anything taken while inside the home plane… a cruel DM might say the air doesn’t take, a less cruel DM might still mess with the water/thirst or food/hunger effects of such a rule.

Done. Nothing created there can go out, but you can bring food in and eat it fine.

~ Hamper the Competition: Fun!

Woo.

~ Divine Dealings: So in Sandman, the endless can call on eachother and talk, right? I kinda see the ability to call on any deity and chat as a cool power… what I’m trying to say is it might be cool if it could ‘contact other plane’ for deities of other alignments to talk, but the deity on the other side is not compelled to tell the truth or even answer.

I have no idea what you're talking about. But I guess a 1/day chat with a Deity seems fun.

~Closing Clause of Immortality is confusing. Does the QD get all of these abilities it qualifies for, or just one that it both chooses and qualifies for?

It's supposed to be 1 of your choice. Should it be all three?

Overall awesome… My players will know about this class. Great options, and as I tend to say, there could always be more!

:smallbiggrin:

...

Also removed Clairaudience/Clairvoyance from Divine Spark because it's now in Far Sight.

For reference:
Lammasu (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9951605&postcount=371)
G. Protector (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9951670&postcount=373)
Quasi-God (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10077255&postcount=719)
Monstrous Feats (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10041982&postcount=663)

AugustNights
2011-01-11, 02:37 PM
Extraplanar undead are not uncalled for, and inevitables are extraplanar constructs.

I'm actually fine with being able to change it every level, it's more the +1 HD that bothered me.

Sandman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sandman_%28Vertigo%29) it's worth checking out.

On the Immortal thing... I don't know. If they have to choose, I'd get rid of the prerequisites after choosing... the way it reads the player chooses one, and then has to qualify for it. I'd say either let them get all they qualify for, or let them choose one. Though that's only the way I'd approach it, and the council may have other advice, of course.

Hyudra
2011-01-11, 03:10 PM
Basilisk
~Stone Eye: Craggy look seems more powerful that the other two to me, and would probably serve better as a standard part of the look, with the other two as singe choice options… of course not necessary, but I imagine most players will use it like that anyhow. Option is made at each use, yes?

Ah, I see the confusion. No, I should state you make the choice once, and those 2 abilities are available as individual shots thereafter. That entire ability (and its sister ability Petrifying Eye) need some rephrasing and clarification.

Craggy Look is more reliable and consistent in its application, but is outweighed by the disadvantage of having to get foes to 1/2 dex to get the stacking needed for the petrifaction. If, at first level, you take Craggy Look as one of your two Stone Eye abilities, you're gaining the dex damage as a reliable weapon, but you won't be able to take foes out of combat quite so effectively as if you were using Heavy Stare and Sedimentary Sight, or whatever I called 'em.

Probably tonight, I'll sit down and rework things so they're clearer and there's more inherent balance between the abilities (particularly Sedimentary Sight vs. Heavy Stare).


~Geomorphic Gaze is, like all of the other abilities, very cool, and interesting, but I feel it could present more options… also its lead in text made me excited for the ability to petrify undead or constructs of organic materials... maybe it’s better off that it cannot… but its something a player would look at and say ‘Hey! If it can petrify dirt…”

I should state something to that extent, as far as petrifying undead and organic constructs... maybe as something when your HD are higher. I initially wanted to have a lot more options under geomorphic gaze, that were individually less than stellar but gave you a good toolbox set of options. As I mused in this post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10132807&postcount=53), however, I found the abilities I was coming up with were very situational and limited the basilisk in many contexts (so it would ultimately be very effective in forests or other landscapes with lots of organic material and weak in deserts, dungeons and caverns, which runs against the monster entry).

Edit - Almost forgot, in my hurry to punch out a response before I headed out the door. Thank you for the review. Both the positive feedback on the creature and the ability reviews are appreciated and help me nail down what to fix and how.

AugustNights
2011-01-11, 03:57 PM
As for caltrops... I see a sneeze being petrified. Maybe the Basalisk can produce a readily petrified mucus? Limited use per day, would offer the ability in those dungeons without dust and organic material... I agree that situational abilities aren't great, but there is a lot of cool things that can be done with 'and now they are rocks...'

Gorgondantess
2011-01-11, 05:37 PM
Lammasu: Gets my vote.
Golden protector: In the prereqs... you have "Lammasu 4 or 7 HD". Didn't you say you were, in fact, going to make it Lammasu only?
Also, the SR is quite high. Higher than "High SR" creatures.
Once those are addressed, it gets my vote.

Manticore: The only thing I can see now that's a problem is the ungodly number of spikes you can launch with the Skewer Salvo. Address that, and I'll give it my vote. And considering the lack of other Councilmembers, I think that should be enough to get it on the list.

Quasi-God: Extraplanar constructs/undead are good, just not constructs/undead turning into outsiders.
Aura of divinity:

Fright: All enemies within range of their aura suffer a +1/4HD morale bonus on attack rolls, Saves, ability checks & skill checks.
This would be better off in minor, and negative levels in major. Or... I don't know, but they're nearly identical.
Healing/draining: Ummm... I'd just make it one does negative energy and one does positive energy. Fast healing heals undead, y'know.
Personal Plane: So... it's an extradimensional room? Seriously, that's essentially what they get. By 20th level it's an extradimensional building.
Also: say goodbye to material costs! Woo-woo! Need a true resurrection? Just come in the demiplane and do it!

Hyudra
2011-01-11, 06:09 PM
"and now they are rocks", har.

Funny thing, I was contemplating additional abilities, for what a Basilisk might use the ability for. One thought was spitting & turning the spit into stone mid-air. Another was barfing on a prone enemy and then solidifying the puke.

The stuff that crosses my mind...

In all seriousness, I want to sit down with both Basilisk and Manticore either tonight or tomorrow.

Added Lammasu to the list, but it strikes me as I type this that I put it in the wrong place in the list, somehow thinking it was Llamasu. Fixing. Fixed.

Super_Fluous
2011-01-11, 06:29 PM
Ah, I've been away recently, and haven't really had the time to do the proper revisions to the flesh golem. Now that I am back, I'll try to rework it, pretty much from the ground up.

AustontheGreat1
2011-01-11, 06:59 PM
Please don't center creature images/names.
Oh, man, a longish class (though it's the first on the list, here, it's the last one I critiqued, since I was working backward). Let's see...
Skills:
"*New skill described on p.20 ToB" - Forgive me, but I see no *, or ability this might reference. Martial Lore?
Handle Animal seems out of place.
Knowledge (nature) seems kind of out of place.
Full BAB + Strength bonuses seems rather over the top, at a glance. The de-facto rule, now, tends to be one or the other (old classes may ignore this rule, but we shouldn't use them as a measuring stick.)
Why is the armor bonus not the standard Con mod, or 1+Con mod?
What happens if your suit of armor gets ruined? Say, by a rust monster?
The rebuking and commanding of living spells, hrmm...
"(ten times per day for a typical ragewalker)" what is this? What are we gauging by? I mean, assuming you're 1st level, 18 points in Cha, you're only capable of doing such 7 times a day, so you're wrong... but this doesn't need to be said, anyways.
Rebuking & commanding living spells as a cleric of half your HD means you probably won't be able to rebuke/command any. Turn undead (and this ability, by extension) tends to decline severely in usefulness as you gain levels, requiring optimization to keep it viable in mid to high levels. Having it be cut in half means it won't be useful to a player at early, mid or late levels. This ability probably deserves an entry of its own, and fine tuning.
Ability Score Bonuses:
I restate what I covered earlier. Full BAB plus strength bonuses are too good, trumping most other classes in this same thread in raw numbers.
You probably don't need half the ability score bonuses you listed, anyways. As is, the creatures that should get ability score bonuses are those who are sacrificing it thematically (ie. brutes with low BAB and strength bonuses, who thereby hit less often but hit harder), or those who lack fine manipulation, proficiencies and/or speech, and thus need the raw stats to make their natural tools that much more viable. Ragewalker is a humanoid with a lot going for it to begin with, so there's no need for as many stat bonuses as you've included.
Quick Healing:
"The amount of healing each round increases by for every 4 HD the ragewalker gains after the first" - This would initially be read as Fast Healing 2 at 5HD (4 HD after the first {HD}). Clarify? Also, I don't like the use of the word 'gains', either, because it doesn't apply retroactively, RAW.
Blood Frenzy:
How often can it be used? Duration?
This may need to be toned down. You've already got a flat out ridiculous movement speed, you're adding to that, and gaining notable stat bonuses.
Versatile Blade Magic:
RAW, it gives you too much. Let's say that at level 6, I'm a Ragewalker with 18 base CHA, +2 from an item, +3 from stats, +1 from levels. That gives me 7 uses of the metamagic of my choice (assuming I don't go for quicken or amplify), enough to get ~2 uses per encounter in a 4 encounter day (Well, 2 per encounter for 3 encounters, 1 for a single encounter).
Some of the options don't really apply to your SLAs. Widen doesn't apply to any of your SLAs, IIRC. Amplify doesn't offer much either (Just cause fear?).
Probably needs to be toned down in # per day. Doing so is likely to involve tying it to something other than your CHA, which makes sense anyways, considering the stacking you're offering.
Living Spell Companion:
I'm not terribly familiar with living spells, so I'm looking over this, seeing no major faults, and encouraging others who are better versed in such to pay extra attention to it.
You talk about the ragewalker rebuking living spells for a second time (the first time appearing under the grafted armor).
Induce Blood Frenzy:
I'd make it so that if you save, you're immune for 24 hours.
Weapon Cloud:
It affects allies? I can see this being a problem in a cramped dungeon.
"1d6 for every 4 HD" - what type of damage? Every 4HD of the creature? Or the Ragewalker? Word this better.
"This damage is slashing and piercing and damage reduction applies normally." - Ah, here's the damage type. Why not just say '1d6 slashing/piercing damage for every 4 HD of the Ragewalker.'?
"creatures adjacent to the Ragewalker must succeed on a successful reflex save each round" -- This sounds like it would bog down combat. It's a lot of extra saving throws & damage rolls & damage tracking that's liable to come up in pretty much every encounter the ragewalker participates in from 10th level on. (That's ~133 encounters if you go from 10th to 20th level).
Repel Missiles:
"whenever the Ragewalker is the target of a ranged attack from a weapon, but not attacks that result from a spell (such as fireball or lightning bolt)," -- I would restructure this to "whenever the Ragewalker is the target of a ranged attack from a weapon (but not attacks that result from a spell, such as a fireball or lightning bolt)", as it reads awkwardly otherwise.
Awaken Magic:
I this boiling down to the party's wizard offering up spells to turn into awakened spells for longer durations (perhaps) or just more raw power for their buck.
I'm certain there's countless ways to abuse this.
Blade Storm Master:
So... at 20th level, with a +12 Cha bonus, I've got 240 points... which essentially translates to +240 hitpoints? That seems a bit much.



Please don't center your creature images/names. Looks awkward on some monitor setups (I have two 1920x1080 monitors side by side, so I have all the text on one page, and the image is split between the two monitors).
Prerequisites:
Boring. Too easy to enter the class. Not terribly flavorful. Doesn't let people who decide (late) that they want to enter the class do so unless they revise their background, which is weird. Advise more flexible, interesting, challenging prereqs.
Skills: Some elementals kind of get shafted. Appraise? Swim?
Does water elemental even need ranks in swim? He's got swim movement.
Proficiencies:
Don't see why they get weapon and armor proficiencies, if their elemental parents don't... I'm a Wyvern that's the spawn of a wyvern and an air elemental... and now I can wear armor? Does not compute.
Elemental Body:
Air elemental - gets terrific bonuses. Immunity, damage resistance, flight. Question though - it seems odd that creatures that would be spawned from air elemental parents, which would already have flight, kind of don't get much out of this. A half-air elemental pegasus gets little bonus, even if it makes a lot of sense, heritage wise.
Earth elemental - Less terrific bonuses. Acid immunity (which comes up arguably the least of the core elemental damages), and a burrow speed, which is ok but kind of meh. (and potentially gamebreaking if you're getting it at level 2, see other burrowing creatures).
Fire - Gets terrific bonuses. I just don't really understand why it moves so fast (80' land speed at 20th level?). Doesn't make a lot of sense.
Water kind of gets screwed. Immunity to cold, which isn't common (but isn't uncommon), and a swim speed... which is kind of meh, since it's only going to come up in maybe one encounter a level.
Elemental Power:
Force of Nature: Seems kind of detrimental to the air elemental. It basically prevents you from full attacking foes. Make it optional?
Force of Nature: DC needs fixing. DC = 10 = Damage dealt? Think you meant 10 + Damage dealt.
Stability: Kind of sucks. Very niche benefit that's rarely going to come up.
Burn: Not as bad as the other three, but it's... not a lot. I'm sure it adds up, but it doesn't really wow.
Flowing Form: See Stability, above. Niche benefit that won't come up nearly as often as air & fire's Elemental Power effects.
Elemental Magic:
Under air, 'Air Walk' is kind of lame when you already have flight.
No need for "minimum 1" for the 1st ability in each table... it's granted with the 2nd level of the class, so you naturally have 2HD already.
Can't help but feel Fire gets the short end of the stick, here. Lots of evocation effects, delivering damage of the most resisted type.

Ragewalker
Alright, image un-centered. Sorry about that.

Okay, added "*" to martial lore.

Handle Animal and Knowledge (Nature) are both on the list simply because it is a fey and even though it is a rage-filled creature of war, it still has a deep connection to the natural world. I think they should be there. Know.(Nature) mostly, and even fighters get Handle Animal so that they can train any animal they are using such as war beasts and mounts and stuff. Though I trust your advice. If you give me any reason to remove them I will.

BAB has been reduced to Cleric BAB (I think that's 2/3, but correct me if I'm wrong.)

The grafted armor ability was originally extremely complicated ability that involved incorporating armor the ragewalker found into his armor as well as transferring magic armor into it. I believe it was Gorgon who suggested that I change it to copy the Iron Golem's armor ability.

I will add a note saying that the armor is immune to rusting, and heals damage slowly over time.

The "(ten times per day for a typical ragewalker)" was left over when the ability was copied from the original Ragewalker. I apologize and I will remove it. Origianally I was told that the ability shouldn't be the only ability granted at any level so I spliced into the other ability. Rebuking living spells is a minor ability at best so I will change it to "as a cleric of a level equal to you HD."

I agree, the ability increses are over the top. I thing that I should remove the strength increases altogether and give it bonuses to charisma at 3rd level and every 3 levels thereafter. So a total of +4 Charisma, granted over levels 3, 6, 9, 12. Sound better?

Quick Healing edited a little. Tried to clear the stuff you didn't like.

Originally I had the Ragewalker gaining maneuvers with a progression similar to a warblade. I was told that that wasn't acceptable, and understandably. So originally that was going to be stance that the Ragewalker gained access to. I still need to change it. How about it last a number of rounds equal to either the ragewalker's charisma score or constitution score; and usable 1/day for every 5 HD?

How about I reduce it to a flat 3/day as usual for the Metamagic Spell-like Ability feats. Also, Amplify could be applied to Cause Fear, Inflict Light Wounds, or Blade Barrier. Widen could be used to modify Cause Fear or Globe of Invulnerability. You didn't specify widen but it can modify many of them either.

Sorry, Turning living spells ability was originally meant to be part of this ability, I don't know how it wound up under grafted armor.

Induce Blood Frenzy altered as specified.

Weapon cloud has some problems. What if I just state that the Ragewalker can control the the swirling blades enough to make them pass harmlessly around allies? Specified that it's the Ragewalker's HD. How should I reduce the rolls and complication involved.

I knew this ability was overpowered when I put it down. I was hoping to get help making it acceptable. I can't recall who, but I remember someone suggesting that the Ragewalker shouldn't immediately gain control of the living spell. How about I change it so that the living spell is created under the control of the original caster of the spell, and the Ragewalker may then attempt to take control via its Rebuking and Commanding ability. Or to fix the problem of a party wizard simply giving up the spell to make a living spell, the Living Spell is created under no ones command; adding the possibility of creating a new foe. Any of those suggestions sound acceptable?

I see, how would you suggest I fix the capstone ability then?

Okay, gotta run. I'll get to the Half-Elemental soon.\

Sorry for posting this in the Closed thread. I haven't been keeping up and I didn't realize.

NineThePuma
2011-01-11, 07:35 PM
A number of Kython classes are mistakenly listed as Base classes when they are, in fact, optional (mutually exclusive) PrCs.

Mystic Muse
2011-01-11, 07:39 PM
responses to Illurien. I cut out a few of the grammar error critiques simply for the sake of less things to respond to.


I tried to address everything you brought up.




Needs an image.. Forgot about that for some reason

Source? Without it, can't look at the original monster for flavor & details. I had to look it up. Sorry, monster manual 5.


Telepathy out to 10' per HD is kind of crippling. That means not being able to talk to other people in the same room as you. Well, that's how the original class communicated.

All skills should not be class skills. That gives you access to iajitsu focus, hypnotism, craft dreamweave item, and so on... skills with concrete in-game benefits that can really power you up. Also, it's the factotum's schtick that you're messing with. That was a suggestion by Gorgon.

The numbers in the table (particularly BAB) are screwy. Some are like +1 and others are like + 3 (with a space). It needs tidying. Thanks for pointing that out.


Needs more flavor text in ability descriptions, so we've got a better idea of what's going on and why. You mention a tempest lash, but I frankly don't have a clue what that is, especially because there's no source. Okay.

Tempest Lash:

The healing is perhaps a bit much. Consider that you're potentially delivering two 1d8+Str attacks, dealing 2d4 str mod damage and gaining 10-20 hp on each attack. I'll try and change it to be a static amount. Any suggestions on how much is appropriate?

SLAs:
State, as you describe each level of SLAs, how many times they can be used a day. It's very unclear, as it's currently stated.
"The other mentioned SLAs are usable 1/day per spell level HD." is awkwardly worded.[quote/] Okay. I was just trying to simplify it a bit and I guess I failed.
Improved Body of Knowledge:
[quote]"purpose of overcoming DR and she simply needs to trance instead of sleep. " is weirdly worded. The trance thing is a thought of its own. End the sentence after detailing DR and then bring up trances after that, in a sentence of its own. Will do.

Storm of visions SU:
[]Ability needs a proper name, with capitalization (and if you're detailing (su), (ex), etc, do it consistently and use the standard formatting). Thanks for catching this, I will.

Home Plane:

I don't like that you named it for the player. Let the players name their own dark library. WOTC named it actually. Otherwise, yeah, I'd have left the name blank. I'll probably do that anyway since the first name is impossible to spell, and the second seems about as subtle as a brick to the face.

Being able to transport to the library is fine. Not having a way to transport back is... inconvenient. good point.

This strikes me as an ability fitting for a much higher level than 4th. It was originally, but I think somebody suggested that it made more sense as a lower level ability.
Infinite Knowledge:

Seems like a kind of overpowered version of Knowledge Devotion. The problem with skill-based abilities is that they either don't work at all (truenaming) or they're too easy to pump, granting ridiculous bonuses.
The 13th level bonus sucks. A bonus to AC granted around the time that AC really has started to decline in usefulness. I can't see smart players using it.
The 16th level bonus is weird and ill-fitting. I can't think of a better way to say it. "DCS" is confusing (Save DCs would be better, but still awkward), and there's really no precedent for an ability like it. Replace it?[/] I think this was a suggestion by Gorgon based off of the Marrutact.

Combat Expertise:
[The thing about combat expertise is that, as a feat that's a prerequisite for so many other feats, it's one you take early or you just don't take it at all. As such, it is out of place at 5th level. Okay. I just thought the first couple of levels were kind of front loaded already.

"If Illurien already has Combat advantage at this point, she can" ...
What's combat advantage? Most likely combat expertise but I had combat advantage on my mind for some reason.

You reference cloud of foresight before the ability is granted, which is confusing. Consider moving the dodge bonus details to the cloud of foresight entry instead. Sounds good.
Damage Reduction:

"At 6th level Illurien gains damage reduction good equal to half her hit dice." -- I'd reword, as it's just clunky in the underlined part there. Look at other monsters for how they worded the DR entries.[/] Sounds good.

"The miss chance increases by 10% every time she takes another 2 levels in the class for a total of 40% at 14th level. " - wording is awkward in the underlined part there.
So... I have 40% chance to dodge any attack at 14th level. I've also got the dodge bonus from combat expertise, so that's... 5%? 45% chance to avoid any attack. I'm also getting +5 to AC in addition to my existing bonus, so my AC is maybe going to prevent what? One in five attacks on its own? Seems a little much, numberwise. It strikes me that with some other abilities and/or concealment benefits, you're nigh untouchable (Say, warlock's entropic shield, as a start).[/] originally it was just twenty percent. Should I just go back to that?
Improved Storm of Visions
I've stated why I don't like Storm of Visions, Dazed is actually a pretty crippling condition tacked onto the insane number of rolls being performed.[/]

Knowledge Devotion:
What would happen if I, as an Illurien with skills stacked to maximize knowledge, huge int, int bonuses from levels in the class, item familiars granting +20 or more to the knowledge skill of my choice, picked up the Knowledge Devotion feat in addition to the bonuses granted here? Stacking! Too easy/intuitive to abuse.[/] Thanks for pointing that out.
[quote]
"and to the fatigued and exhausted conditions.. " -- isn't a complete thought. Two periods at the end there. Thanks for catching that
Rejuvenation:

Kind of crippling if you don't necessarily get a choice in the matter. If I'm the BBEG trying to defeat the party, I'm going to kill the Illurien over and over, and run away after each time. Have any suggestion for how to implement it then? Somebody suggested the level drawback to balance out the fact the raise dead is unlimited.
Perfected Tempest Lash:

I complained about the number of rolls with storm of knowledge, and I complained about the number of things that tempest lash got, goodie wise. I fear the experience tracking makes a full attack routine by the Illurien into a bit of a headache (You're rolling vs. ac, doing damage, recording damage to the monster on the sheet, rolling int damage, recording changes to the monster on the sheet, adjusting stats where needed, calculating hp gain, adding to your temporary hp pool, calculating XP damage, adding to your special XP pool... and you're doing all this potentially twice a round, several rounds in a row. The XP thing was a suggestion by Magicypop. After pointing a bunch of stuff out, I agree there's too much rolling. I'll do what I can to reduce the amount.

Improved SLAs:

Too vague, a little rushed.
I can add, what? Two spells, period? Or two spells for each level?
The number of times it's usable per day is awkwardly worded. supposed to be per level to kind of represent the endless pursuit of knowledge. It was just an idea and I expect it's more powerful than I intended.

Overall, needs polish:
Ability names should be bolded, capitalized, there should be consistency with use of (Su) and (Ex) throughout all abilities or none, there should be a degree of flavor text, the text is a little rushed and feels like shorthand more than proper descriptions made for readability.

I'll add the flavor text once the mechanics are finished.

Makiru
2011-01-11, 10:23 PM
As a reminder: Solamith (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9773475&postcount=1173)
It's so close to approval, I can taste it!
It would just be so much of an ego boost if it got on the finished list before I finished the garngrath.

Hyudra
2011-01-12, 01:50 AM
Basilisk Changelog:
Jan 11, 2011:
Stone Eye changed to clarify (several times) that you only fire one effect at a time.
Sedimentary Glancing renamed to Glancing Glaze, and given a buff at 8HD that lets you halve duration and make it exhaust instead.
Heavy Glare no longer imposes slow, but comes close, halving enemy movement & imposing the same penalties to attacks, AC and reflex saves. It doesn't force enemies to choose between move and standard actions though - to do that, again, you've got an option at 8HD that lets you halve the duration to make it slow instead.
Craggy Look damage dice changed. Does more damage early, and scales slower (1d6 at 1st, 2d4 at 8th, 3d3 at 14th). I also added the bit about 1/2 dexterity being counted as a stone eye condition to the ability text, which made it easy to tidy up a lot of text elsewhere.
Text of stone eye cleaned up & simplified a lot.
Geomorphic Gaze given a buff rangewise (from 10 + 5 per point of strength mod to 25' + 5' at 6HD and every 3HD thereafter).
Geomorphic Gaze now lets you do the difficult terrain + one obstacle in the same action at 10HD.
Added 5 additional abilities to geomorphic gaze:
Seal a door shut? Check.
Turn grass to caltrops? Check.
Turn leaves on the trees into a rain of knifelike stones? Check.
Turn entangling rope/web/tanglefoot goop into stone? Check.
Turn rope/web/glue/moss/vines to fragile stone? Check.
Tidied up some text in Petrifying Eye.
Fixed erroneous mention of dexterity in Crushing Glower.

Kobold-Bard
2011-01-12, 05:16 AM
Lammasu: Gets my vote.

Woo.

Golden protector: In the prereqs... you have "Lammasu 4 or 7 HD". Didn't you say you were, in fact, going to make it Lammasu only?
Also, the SR is quite high. Higher than "High SR" creatures.
Once those are addressed, it gets my vote.

Done, both are facepalms on my part. Also removed the bit in their claw description that implied they might not have been a Lamassu beforehand.

...

Quasi-God: Extraplanar constructs/undead are good, just not constructs/undead turning into outsiders.

Done.

Aura of divinity:

This would be better off in minor, and negative levels in major. Or... I don't know, but they're nearly identical.
Healing/draining: Ummm... I'd just make it one does negative energy and one does positive energy. Fast healing heals undead, y'know.

ORLY? I didn't know that. I'll adjust that in a bit.

Personal Plane: So... it's an extradimensional room? Seriously, that's essentially what they get. By 20th level it's an extradimensional building.
Also: say goodbye to material costs! Woo-woo! Need a true resurrection? Just come in the demiplane and do it!

Hmm. When you put it like that is sounds a bit ****. The abilities are based on the godly abilities (general ones, not the salient abilities) so I don't want to get rid of it. Any suggestions for improvements?

Yay for Lamassu & G. Protector getting the thumbs up :smallbiggrin:

Hyudra
2011-01-12, 10:55 AM
Added the Golden Protector to the list.

Check this post again (if there's no follow-up posts), as I'm aiming to do some more critiques today.

Bleakborn
Hasn't been updated since late November. No commentary to add.

Maug
Changelogs are useful. I see it was updated on December 10th, but if I want to figure out what changes to look for, I've now got to hunt through 5-10 pages of thread for critique on the class, and any notice of follow up changes.
State the source of the monster in the entry, so people (players & critiquers) can reference it.
Still waiting for Gorgondantess' suggested changes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9984880&highlight=Maug#post9984880) (Added this post to the table, under the suggestions/critiques column.)
Additionally, there's some general format errors. Mild stuff like...
"Craft,Intimidate,Knowledge(architecture andengineering),Listen,Profession (siege engineer and soldier),Spot, Survival"
-- No spaces between commas and the following entry, most of the time.
No period at the end of many sentences.
No space between some other punctuation (periods) and the following word. (ie. "Pulverize:As a free...", "...damage.A maug...")
"equal to it’s strength modifier" -- Should be its.
The creature's name is misspelled under Growth.
The creature's name should probably be consistently capitalized throughout the entry.
So beyond that general polish & Gorgondantess' suggestions (Yeah, don't have full BAB and +Str. That's a smidge over the top.)

Death Knight:
State the source of your monster. I don't want to have to google it.
Prerequisite should state HD rather than levels, as is our tendency.
Prerequisite is kind of dull. Add something more flavorful/hard?
More formatting issues:
"and shield(including tower shield)" should have a space @ the underlined area.
"Death TouchThe death knight’s" needs a bracket & space between Touch and The.
Abyssal Blast - again needs a bracket.
Immunities - needs a period at the end of that sentence.
Spell Resistance - Has two brackets.
Fear Aura - needs a bracket.
"if they succeed the will save , they are shaken." has an extra space after 'will save'.
"the will save, they are shaken, If they succeed" - needs that comma after 'shaken' to be a period.
There's more. No offense intended, but if you can't be bothered to revise & double check your own entry, I can't be bothered to find all the errors.
The gained benefits are kind of weak, considering the level you gain them at. The DR is easily penetrated at 8th level, and you're ultimately gaining paladin-like abilities at levels 7-9 at the earliest... which is a bit underwhelming.
The class needs a bit more flavor. Flavor text and/or abilities that make it stand out as something beyond an anti-paladin who happens to be undead.

Living Spell
Skipping this one since Magicyop is away & I don't know when he'll be back.

Solamith
HD, skill points, proficiencies need proper formatting. Bolded headings at the very least.
It seems to get 'Demon' too early. Compare to other demons, who get it at 2nd. Consistency is key.
The Solamith is immune to its own soulfire and that of other solamiths... what's to stop a group of PCs from just having each player play Solamith and bombard their way through every encounter?
The summon monster is kinda weak, given the very limited number of uses. Consider allowing one to use a lower level summon monster skill, more times a day? So at level N, I can use the highest level summon monster (Say, Summon Monster V) I have available once a day, or use one a step lower (Summon Monster IV) twice a day?

If Foreign Soulfire fuel is a concern here, consider having lesser summoned creatures (ie. the summon monster IV instance) be destroyed absolutely by the offering of their flesh, effectively giving you only one unbuffed shot.
I would reword "is Reflex half (10 + 1/2HD + Con modifer)." to "allows a reflex save (10 + ...) for half damage.
State, in each ability description, when that ability is gained.
Widen Soulfire - I'd state that taking that extra damage is voluntary. Reword to something like "At Xth level, the Solamith can choose to take extra damage when using Soulfire. For every 2 damage taken in this way..."
Again, with Abyssal Defenses, Solamith gains the ability at a level different from other demons. Consider switching the place of Abyssal Defenses and Growth.
Maximize Soulfire - For every 4 extra points of damage taken... so if I take 8 self damage, then I get +2 die of damage (Maximize Soulfire) and +10' blast radius (Widen Soulfire)? Or do they not stack? Clarify.
Finally, I don't like it having full BAB and Str bonuses. One or the other (If ability to land ranged attacks is an issue, consider allowing Str to apply to the ranged attack rolls).

Animated Object
Skipping this one since Magicyop is away & I don't know when he'll be back.

Thorn
First thing that caught my eye was the confusion in the table. For the stat boosts, is that a choice between Dex, Wis and Cha, or is Dex given for sure, then we choose between Wis and Cha?
Consider "+1 Dex. +1 Wis or +1 Cha"
For the enhancement bonus ability (I know there's been a lot of headaches here, the example caught me off guard, since the text, as written, didn't lead me to believe you could choose all abilities anew. Reword to "These special abilities are chosen anew whenever the thorn acquires a new HD and apply to all weapons used with the ability." ?
In your given example, referring to the enhancement bonuses, wouldn't you, at 4th level, just have a +1 weapon? Not a +1 Keen?
"of ammunition to grow curved thorns in can take proper advantage of." is awkwardly worded.
"possession and for up to one minute after it leaves." is an incomplete sentence.
For the sneak attack, I'd consider stating it stacks with rogue levels for the purpose of progressing sneak attack. Also, consider giving it the ability to swap sneak attack for sneak attack analogues (Scout/ninja variants, should the Thorn opt to take levels in either of those classes).
"Drawing from the power of their linage, third level Thorns and higher with a free hand can form and fire..." is awkwardly worded. Rephrase? Also, lineage is spelled wrong (well, it won't show up on spell check, since it's referring to lines; linage means the # of lines on a piece of printed material). The more you know!
"Thorn's with iterative attacks" - you mean Thorns.
"then it has the option of doing bludgeoning damage instead)" - the words 'option' and 'instead' kind of contradict each other. Replace 'instead' with something else?
"DC of 10 + 1/2 HD + Chosen Ability Mod" - this appears under slumbering shots. I'd reword to "DC of 10 + ½ HD + Training/Talent Ability Mod". Or be even clearer; "DC of 10 + ½ HD + Cha mod for Talent Thorns or Wis mod for Training Thorns."
"Against an offguard opponent" - define what this means. Offguard isn't a word, either.
"Thorn's chosen ability modifier per successful attack" - again, the chosen ability modifier reference here is a bit weird.
You reference subduing strikes, but it's not clear from the monster class entry what this refers to. Reference to removed material? Something that needs outlining?
"These weapons are particularly cumbersome and bestow a -1 penalty to attack rolls, armour class, and skills relating to movement..." - Initially, on reading this, I thought the penalty applied to the thorn. Clarify?
"Further saves against the Thorn's slumbering shots ability are made at an addition -1 penalty per stuck slumbering arrow, bolt or bullet ontop of any it may be taking from having non-lethal damage, or the attacks being non-lethal." - run on sentence that goes off rails. Fix/clarify?

Swarmshifter
Abilities need proper paragraphs.
Still have reservations about friend of the plague. BBEG vampire turns into a swarm... and can't attack you? Even if you're mortal enemies? Just doesn't compute.
You shift between referring to the swarmshifter as 'you' and 'her'.
Still referring to CL where you probably mean CR, under swarmshifting.
Could stand to be bumped up to 1 swarm per 4HD.

Wendigo
Skipping this one since Magicyop is away & I don't know when he'll be back.
Wow, he's got a lot of creatures pending completion.

Grell
There's an accidental paragraph break under Abberant body.
I don't like creatures having unspecific "[creature] body" names. There's tons of aberrations, so there could be a lot of confusion if many creatures have the ability "Aberrant body", with each doing the same thing.
"This damage increases by a step when the grell gains a size category." (Powerful Tentacles) -- Read as is, you could see it as gaining the standard scaling of tentacle damage from growth, and then you'd get another step of improvement from Powerful Tentacles. Reword to "This damage increases by a step when the grell gains a size category, as normal"?
Otherwise ok.

Umber Hulk
I'm afraid I can't add anything to this monster, as it veers so wildly from the base monster that flavor & mechanics just don't reconcile.

Yellow Musk Creeper
Skipping this one since Magicyop is away & I don't know when he'll be back.

Gibbering Mouther
You reference a +1 Str in the changelog. It does not appear in the creature, as far as I can tell.
Otherwise looks pretty good

Werescorpion
Is this an official monster? There's so many therianthropes that I can't tell anymore. You don't list a source, changelog or commentary that might help me any.
What's the duration on the changed shape? Can I change shape & stay that way until 26 hours later, change back in the event I need to (opening a door) & then change to a scorpion again, just using one daily use, there?
You state the number of uses a day twice.
Does assuming hybrid and assuming scorpion form use the same use-pool of alternate forms?
Quite frankly, I'm not sold on the full-scorpion form. Sure, you get a bit more strength to damage, but why wouldn't I just assume hybrid form & stay that way indefinitely? I wouldn't really need to change forms & I'd get massive stat bonuses.
You need to change the table header for form improvement, as it refers to ectomanthrope rather than werescorpion.
The jump check bonus is a little weird. I'm looking at the monstrous scorpion and seeing nothing jump based.
You state "Lycanthrope" in 'Size'.
Entomanothrope is kind of misplaced. It's too broad a category. Narrow it down to Dromothrope? Dromopoda are the official classification that scorpions fall into.

Pandorym
Forgive me, but I'm skipping this as I've not seen Geckoking active and I'm not up to reviewing a 20 level class.

Dwarven Ancestor
Str bonuses & Full BAB make it a better bruiser than many melee monsters in this thread.
"one size larged" should be 'one size larger'.
It saddens me that the class basically boils down to "wade into combat and spam Stone Hammer" -- The damage outclasses what you're liable to output with melee until mid-late levels (not necessarily even then), and the actions enemies lose from being knocked prone make up for any turns you 'waste' using Stone Hammer & having it be saved against. When you're not able to use Stone Hammer, then your combat options remain really, really boring, especially for a 6th level class.
Blink out is perhaps too powerful. It basically lets you avoid one round's attacks per encounter and/or avoid a given hazard/terrain feature. I'd give it a more defined # of uses than 'once per encounter', as 'encounter' is fairly vague for something as versatile as Blink Out (ToB maneuvers use 'encounter'
but are largely combat focused).

Jovoc
Hasn't been changed since my prior feedback.

Demilich
Soul Steal needs elaboration. It isn't clear exactly how you go about stealing a soul.
Darker Touch is flat out useless at epic level. Enough so that it's not worth including on the class.
Except... can it target itself with Darker Touch? If so, then you've got a mild use for it. It's still largely a dead level, though.
"Any caster trying to break this curse, must also make a CL check (DC=10+HD) or the cure attempt fails." - this crops up at the end of the ability entry, and feels out of place there. Put the CL check/failure note around where the removal is mentioned in the body of text?
Deathless Terror isn't that great. "Fewer than twice the Demilich's HD" is better than it was, but most enemies that are worth talking about at epic level are going to be immune to mind affecting abilities. It's just kinda underwhelming. The ability to terrify those of 1/2 your HD is probably never going to come up - you're a level 24 PC and you're unable to terrify a CR 11 cloud giant.
Soul Absorption is probably why anyone would take the class, for the easy stat bonuses.
The class table references Greater Fell Defense. There is no ability described.

Gargoyle
Reviewed not long ago.

Remorhaz
I think Heat may last a bit too long. If it had a shorter duration (ie. rounds equal to Con modifier), then enemies at least have an option when dealing with the Remorhaz, that doesn't involve throwing themselves suicidally at the thing or standing there & taking it (they can take cover or postpone long enough to force the ability to time out).
As is, it's a really powerful effect that I think would auto-win many encounters. You're a melee brute and can already initiate battles remarkably well (start every battle by scouting forward, then using Ambush to knock a key foe prone) and you've got a heat aura that turns you into an absolute beast, damagewise. Foes with natural attacks wouldn't be able to take you out before you took them out, and you can have the ability for 1 encounter a day at 1st, 2 at 3rd, 3 at 6th and 4 encounters a day at 9th... at which point you've pretty much got heat on you for every relevant encounter you face.
Compare to a barbarian's rage. At early levels, the barbarian gets +4 Str, +4 con and -2 AC, among other things. Your rage will last less time than heat, grants you ~2-4 damage per attack (as opposed to 7 average damage on heat for every attack delivered & on some attacks received), and you get less rages over levels than Remorhaz gets heat over levels. This isn't counting the other bonuses one gets, like destroying weapons.
Pyroclastic Belch - the cone of steam is kinda vague. Save? Roll to Hit?
Firey Surge - Firey isn't a word. You mean Fiery.
Otherwise, no major complaints.

Others I've reviewed recently. Pandorym, Half-Golem, and MagicYop's creatures I've not reviewed, but that should cover everything on the unfinished list.

Saidoro
2011-01-12, 06:51 PM
Others I've reviewed recently. Pandorym, Half-Golem, and MagicYop's creatures I've not reviewed, but that should cover everything on the unfinished list.

For some reason cloaker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10126561#post10126561) isn't on the unfinished list.

bladesmith
2011-01-12, 07:35 PM
Remorhaz
I think Heat may last a bit too long. If it had a shorter duration (ie. rounds equal to Con modifier), then enemies at least have an option when dealing with the Remorhaz, that doesn't involve throwing themselves suicidally at the thing or standing there & taking it (they can take cover or postpone long enough to force the ability to time out).
Huh, I made it last just as long as a Barbarian's rage...
As is, it's a really powerful effect that I think would auto-win many encounters. You're a melee brute and can already initiate battles remarkably well (start every battle by scouting forward, then using Ambush to knock a key foe prone) and you've got a heat aura that turns you into an absolute beast, damagewise. Foes with natural attacks wouldn't be able to take you out before you took them out, and you can have the ability for 1 encounter a day at 1st, 2 at 3rd, 3 at 6th and 4 encounters a day at 9th... at which point you've pretty much got heat on you for every relevant encounter you face.
Well, to some extent, that was the goal. You've got a decent amount of hit points, and some natural armor, but in the end Heat is often your best defense as a Remorhaz. It makes the big bruiser monsters a little more wary of going toe-to-toe with you, when you are otherwise mostly a first initiative wonder. Still I might slow down the progression to 1/4-5 HD.
Compare to a barbarian's rage. At early levels, the barbarian gets +4 Str, +4 con and -2 AC, among other things. Your rage will last less time than heat, grants you ~2-4 damage per attack (as opposed to 7 average damage on heat for every attack delivered & on some attacks received), and you get less rages over levels than Remorhaz gets heat over levels. This isn't counting the other bonuses one gets, like destroying weapons.
Uh, Rage lasts 3+new CON score, or 5+ original CON score. Which is what Heat is set at. Still, with Con bonuses, it might be a little much, so I'll shorten it a bit. Also, it looks like a lot of the confusion comes in thinking that the Heat damage applies to your natural attacks. Like the original monster, the damage does NOT apply to a Remorhaz's natural attacks. I'll make sure to put a sentence or two in there to explain that.
Pyroclastic Belch - the cone of steam is kinda vague. Save? Roll to Hit?
Bah, I thought I had a save listed in the entry, but it was either never there, or got deleted in one of the edits. Fixed
Firey Surge - Firey isn't a word. You mean Fiery.
My spellchecker either just sucks, or has been putting up with my creative spelling for to long.
Otherwise, no major complaints.
Awesomesauce.
Thanks for bringing up the balance issues. I know that I have a rather odd sense of what is and isn't balanced, so having you looking at it has helped a lot.
EDIT: Cut down Heat to 1/4 HD, and lasting 3+Con. Eh, not sure if 2 rounds will make that much of a difference in the long run, but I don't think it's going to matter a whole lot by the point those two rounds are not mattering much. If that makes sense. Also, cut down the Strength bonuses a bit, so that you aren't getting STR and CON in one level.

Chambers
2011-01-12, 07:42 PM
Hyudra

I've edited in my proposed change (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10083602&postcount=751) to Stone Hammer.


Stone Hammer (Su): At 5th level the dwarf ancestor gains the ability to strike the ground with his weapon as a standard action causing a localized earthquake. All enemies standing on the ground within 20ft of the dwarf ancestor must make a Reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 the dwarf ancestor's HD + the dwarf ancestors Strength modifier) or fall prone and take 1d4 points of nonlethal damage. Enemies that make their Reflex negate both falling prone and the damage.

The damage increases by +1d4 every 2 HD the dwarf ancestor has.

So now it's comparable to the Stomp (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/stomp.htm) power, but scales a little bit in damage with hit dice.

I'm not really sure that 'encounter' is a vague term. There are a number of maneuvers that have uses outside of combat; the shadow teleport ones come to mind. I don't know if there's a hard rule on how often you can use maneuvers out of combat. If there is one, then that would apply to Blink Out as well. If there isn't one, then whatever common sense house rule applies to maneuvers out of combat should be applied to Blink Out.

I feel like we both know each others position on the Full Bab/Str issue. No sense in rehashing old arguments.

I think one of the difficulties I've had with this project is that in my head I'm designing a player race, while the mechanics of it are supposed to be on par with a class. I think that's one of the reason why I've been hesitant to give a lot of active type abilities.

---

With the change to Stone Hammer I'm pretty satisfied with the class. It's a defense orientated class, with heavy protections, enhanced use of combat maneuvers, and some active abilities. I appreciate the time you've taken to review the class. Now I'd like to get some other opinions on it. So far I think you and Gorgondantess have been the only ones to review it. Forgive me if someone else has and I've missed it.

TheGeckoKing
2011-01-12, 07:44 PM
Blech. Basically, Writer's Block + School Exams + Other Stuff = Not a nice life,
so I do apologize for disappearing. It's just making monster classes became painful to do, and so I thought it best to take a break rather than drag my heels about.
Swarmshifer has been edited, Pandoryrm will be gotten to in the morning, and I am simply sick to death with regards to the Umber Hulk. Nothing I do seems right, so I give up. Consider that scrapped.

Hyudra
2011-01-12, 07:46 PM
Cloaker
Part of me expected the cloaker to have a bit more skills. It's more of a roguish creature than anything else... so I figured broad skill list, some conditional but potentially powerful attacks and some general versatility.
"Cloakers do not take penalties to jump checks for having a low movement speed." - this bears clarification. There's a lot of ways movement interacts with jump. For one thing, jump distance is capped by your movement speed... so is that limit now gone?
"At ? HD" - clarify.
You mention freedom from lighting conditions, but you don't actually state that lighting conditions affect the ability in the first place.
One Shadow Shift ability is named Dancing Visions but applies Mirror Image. Kind of confusing. (I know it's this way on the cloaker, but still)
I hate save-or-fall prone, for the record. I've avoided it on all of my creatures thus far. Prone is an extremely effective attack type that I feel should more or less be contained to melee & melee techniques. The nausea effect, by knocking someone down and making them nauseated, effectively denies them a round of actions (they can take one action, which pretty much has to be standing up, which provokes an attack of opportunity from any adjacent foes).
Hold Monster is a 5th level spell, that most casters wouldn't have access to until ~10th level (Bards 8th). You're getting it at 5th level. A bit too much, methinks.
As such, I think the moan abilities, pretty much across the board, are problematic, and detract from the Cloaker's schtick, which should be cloaking & engulfing people.

Gorgondantess
2011-01-12, 07:54 PM
I am simply sick to death with regards to the Umber Hulk. Nothing I do seems right, so I give up. Consider that scrapped.

Consider this a tentative dibs on the umber hulk, then. I want to do something that's not ridiculously long for once.:smallsigh:

TheGeckoKing
2011-01-12, 08:03 PM
Okey Dokey then. I know what I wanna do in place of the Umber Hulk, anyway. I call dibs on the Vivisector (MMV, p200). I'll do it when I get time.

Saidoro
2011-01-12, 09:03 PM
Cloaker
Part of me expected the cloaker to have a bit more skills. It's more of a roguish creature than anything else... so I figured broad skill list, some conditional but potentially powerful attacks and some general versatility.
The base creature has spot, hide, listen and move silently, it's ambushy, but other than that not very rogue-like. If the general consensus goes towards rogue I'll probably change it, but for now it stays.
"Cloakers do not take penalties to jump checks for having a low movement speed." - this bears clarification. There's a lot of ways movement interacts with jump. For one thing, jump distance is capped by your movement speed... so is that limit now gone?
I'll change it to "Cloakers are treated as though they had a base land speed of 30 ft for the purposes of using the jump skill." That should be a bit clearer.
"At ? HD" - clarify.The Antigamer said it should come in at a higher level, but I wasn't really sure where to put it, or if it should be in there at all.
You mention freedom from lighting conditions, but you don't actually state that lighting conditions affect the ability in the first place."While in shadowy areas the cloaker can use the following abilities."
One Shadow Shift ability is named Dancing Visions but applies Mirror Image. Kind of confusing. (I know it's this way on the cloaker, but still)I'll change that.
I hate save-or-fall prone, for the record. I've avoided it on all of my creatures thus far. Prone is an extremely effective attack type that I feel should more or less be contained to melee & melee techniques. The nausea effect, by knocking someone down and making them nauseated, effectively denies them a round of actions (they can take one action, which pretty much has to be standing up, which provokes an attack of opportunity from any adjacent foes). What if I make it "Affected characters become nauseated for 1d4+1 rounds, those who fail their saves by 5 or more also fall prone."
Hold Monster is a 5th level spell, that most casters wouldn't have access to until ~10th level (Bards 8th). You're getting it at 5th level. A bit too much, methinks.Okay, I can delay that.
As such, I think the moan abilities, pretty much across the board, are problematic, and detract from the Cloaker's schtick, which should be cloaking & engulfing people. I disagree. Without moan a fifth level cloaker really has one really effective combat strategy, it leaps at one foe of large size or smaller, engulfs them, and spends the rest of combat slowly biting them to death. It can use shadow shift to grant itself concealment if it's in a poorly lit area and it can swing it's tail at it's other enemies, but really it's main contribution will be locking down a single enemy of large size or smaller. But what if it's fighting a large number of enemies, or an enemy to big to engulf? The five levels it sunk into cloaker will give it some minor defensive abilities, but that's about it. Without moan there's a wide range of encounters where it won't be effective (there are far more huge+ monsters than there are undead and constructs) moan means the ability to meaningfully contribute far more often than not.

I'll make a few changes on this and wait on a response for others.

Zemro
2011-01-12, 10:09 PM
Thorn
First thing that caught my eye was the confusion in the table. For the stat boosts, is that a choice between Dex, Wis and Cha, or is Dex given for sure, then we choose between Wis and Cha?
Consider "+1 Dex. +1 Wis or +1 Cha"
For the enhancement bonus ability (I know there's been a lot of headaches here, the example caught me off guard, since the text, as written, didn't lead me to believe you could choose all abilities anew. Reword to "These special abilities are chosen anew whenever the thorn acquires a new HD and apply to all weapons used with the ability." ?

Simple enough, anything to cut down on confusion is a good change to make in my books.



In your given example, referring to the enhancement bonuses, wouldn't you, at 4th level, just have a +1 weapon? Not a +1 Keen?

I'll quote myself here, I think you may have missed a bit (understandable, considering the impressive amount of monsters you critiqued there).


Sometimes a Thorn may find himself faced with a challenge in which his weapon is not sufficient. Those of fourth level have a strong enough connection to the faerie courts to do something about that. They may empowered a thorned weapon they are wielding, granting it a +1 enhancement bonus per 4HD. In addition to the enhancement bonus the weapon also gains any number of weapon special abilities, provided their total equivalent bonus does not exceed the thorn's HD/4 (rounded down). These special abilities are chosen anew whenever the thorn acquires a new HD and apply to all weapons used with the ability. So a Thorn with four class levels could choose Keen, turning weapons into +1 Keen Weapons, but upon gaining another level decide to replace Keen and make his weapons +1 Merciful Weapons.

So, the amount of abilities is determined by a separate metric, I could clarify that it's just the weapon's special abilities that are checked against the HD/4?


"of ammunition to grow curved thorns in can take proper advantage of." is awkwardly worded.
"possession and for up to one minute after it leaves." is an incomplete sentence.

Made some small changed to address the ammunition portion of that ability. Though, on the second point, there's more to that sentence, and it seems to be complete to me: "This process is a supernatural ability and lasts as long as the weapon is in the Thorn's possession, and for up to one minute after it leaves."


For the sneak attack, I'd consider stating it stacks with rogue levels for the purpose of progressing sneak attack. Also, consider giving it the ability to swap sneak attack for sneak attack analogues (Scout/ninja variants, should the Thorn opt to take levels in either of those classes).

Well, it's progression is a little different then the rogue's... though I'll add a bit on stacking and see how that sounds.


"Drawing from the power of their linage, third level Thorns and higher with a free hand can form and fire..." is awkwardly worded. Rephrase? Also, lineage is spelled wrong (well, it won't show up on spell check, since it's referring to lines; linage means the # of lines on a piece of printed material). The more you know!
"Thorn's with iterative attacks" - you mean Thorns.
"then it has the option of doing bludgeoning damage instead)" - the words 'option' and 'instead' kind of contradict each other. Replace 'instead' with something else?

And knowing is half the battle! (Aka fixed)


"DC of 10 + 1/2 HD + Chosen Ability Mod" - this appears under slumbering shots. I'd reword to "DC of 10 + ½ HD + Training/Talent Ability Mod". Or be even clearer; "DC of 10 + ½ HD + Cha mod for Talent Thorns or Wis mod for Training Thorns."
"Thorn's chosen ability modifier per successful attack" - again, the chosen ability modifier reference here is a bit weird.

Changed, that's a much clearer way of putting things.


"Against an offguard opponent" - define what this means. Offguard isn't a word, either.

It's a fluff sentence, the abilities's requirements for functioning are listed in the next sentence. I've no problems removing that line to increase clarity.


You reference subduing strikes, but it's not clear from the monster class entry what this refers to. Reference to removed material? Something that needs outlining?

Oh, wow, that's in reference to removed material. Initial the Thorn had an ability that increased the amount of non-lethal damage he inflicted, by an amount similar to sneak attack. I forgot about that clause when I reverted it to sneak attack to keep things more open and clearer. I suppose the closest analogue would be to say they 'take an extra 50% damage from any of the Thorns attacks that deal non-lethal damage'.


"These weapons are particularly cumbersome and bestow a -1 penalty to attack rolls, armour class, and skills relating to movement..." - Initially, on reading this, I thought the penalty applied to the thorn. Clarify?
"Further saves against the Thorn's slumbering shots ability are made at an addition -1 penalty per stuck slumbering arrow, bolt or bullet ontop of any it may be taking from having non-lethal damage, or the attacks being non-lethal." - run on sentence that goes off rails. Fix/clarify?

Also fixed/clarified, thanks very much for taking the time to review the Thorn, and all the other creature on the unfinished list. The class itself has now been updated.

I'm sorry I haven't really been that active for making comments and critique lately, between holidays and classes starting up I haven't had much time to sit down. I will continue to endeavour to find that time, though, as I really do like helping things along with this project.

AugustNights
2011-01-13, 04:37 AM
@ Hyudra, Re Werescorpion: Werescorpion never published in a book, but entomanthrope (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040621a) is a wizards ordained template. Ordained? Okay-ed? Made.

NineThePuma
2011-01-13, 10:38 PM
A number of Kython classes are mistakenly listed as Base classes when they are, in fact, optional (mutually exclusive) PrCs.

Just reiterating, cause no one addressed it =V

The Antigamer
2011-01-13, 11:03 PM
Just reiterating, cause no one addressed it =V

War Troll is also, since we're pointing things out.

Hyudra
2011-01-14, 12:28 AM
Fixed the erroneous entries made by another thread OP, once upon a time.

Responses to changes to Basilisk would be welcome (see changelog or my post a 1/2 page back with changelog in it.)

Since Manticore (which may need a few more tweaks to respond to comments) and Basilisk are in finishing stages, am considering what monster I want to do next. Storm Giant is an extensive work in progress, and I'm left to figure out what to do while I plunk away on that.

I'd love to do Chimera, but that's been called by Kobold-Bard, sadly.

As far as discussion points for the thread, what would people think of the following rules (Just to generate conversation)?:
Can't call dibs on any monsters unless you've more or less kept up with your monsters-in-progress. (ie. If you've got 3+ monsters on the unfinished list, no calling dibs).
Limits on # of monsters you can call dibs on, with added #s to veteran thread members who get their stuff done. For example, I've got little problem with Gorgondantess calling dibs on as many monsters as he has, but MagicYop has two or three called monsters & something like five to seven unfinished monsters pending completion.
If a monster goes unfinished due to a lack of response to critiques for 1 month or longer (See Bleakborn, etc), and is reasonably done, it may be polished up & reposted by a veteran thread member.

Kobold-Bard
2011-01-14, 02:14 AM
@Hyudra: I am interested with the Chimera, but I'd never stand in the way of love :smalltongue: I'll do something else.

Mystic Muse
2011-01-14, 02:38 AM
Hyudra, would you mind putting this version of the Styx Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9905425&postcount=158) in the "Finished monsters" list? It clears some things up and I got rid of some errors from the previous version, including cleaning up the table, capitalizing the names of abilities, and removing the EX and SU tags since that was easier than writing them in on every ability that needed them. It seems to keep getting removed from the list and replaced with the previous version and I can't imagine why.

Gorgondantess
2011-01-14, 02:44 AM
Fixed the erroneous entries made by another thread OP, once upon a time.
What were those?


As far as discussion points for the thread, what would people think of the following rules (Just to generate conversation)?:
Can't call dibs on any monsters unless you've more or less kept up with your monsters-in-progress. (ie. If you've got 3+ monsters on the unfinished list, no calling dibs).
Limits on # of monsters you can call dibs on, with added #s to veteran thread members who get their stuff done. For example, I've got little problem with Gorgondantess calling dibs on as many monsters as he has, but MagicYop has two or three called monsters & something like five to seven unfinished monsters pending completion.
If a monster goes unfinished due to a lack of response to critiques for 1 month or longer (See Bleakborn, etc), and is reasonably done, it may be polished up & reposted by a veteran thread member.
Honestly, I don't really think we need hard and fast rules. Just guidelines- as in, "If you want to make a new monster and you have 2 unfinished, ask". "If you haven't touched your monster in months and haven't made clear you're going to finish it, it may be finished for you by another", etc.

Anyways, tonight I'm going to sit down and have a long, hard chat with the Pseudonatural Creature. Hopefully I'll finish it within the next several hours. And not get frustrated, throw my hands up and go to something else. >.>

Mystic Muse
2011-01-14, 02:46 AM
Anyways, tonight I'm going to sit down and have a long, hard chat with the Pseudonatural Creature. Hopefully I'll finish it within the next several hours. And not get frustrated, throw my hands up and go to something else. >.>

psst, I think you're putting a bit too much work into this monster. Whenever I start talking to things, it indicates it's time to take a break.:smalltongue:

Hyudra
2011-01-14, 11:54 AM
@Hyudra: I am interested with the Chimera, but I'd never stand in the way of love :smalltongue: I'll do something else.

That's sweet, but you should do it. Besides, I can't find a half decent image of the creature (Don't like the base image, there's way too many variants on the creature that don't fit the D&D description, and there's a ton of bad art by chimera lovers, with a scarcity of good stuff); that always hampers my enthusiasm to do the monster.


What were those?

Kyton Kython prestige classes & War Troll, specifically (War troll was already listed as a prestige class, but was also erroneously listed as a base class).

Styx dragon updated, Kyuubi.

Gorgondantess: I spotted your 'find an image for the pseudonatural creature' contest, a ways back. I dunno if you still need it, but perhaps one of these images will suit your needs, or will help inspire you to go that extra mile as you work on the class (I find a good image is great inspiration/motivation for me).

http://i51.tinypic.com/24c7eqp.jpg - Sadly not in color, though arguably rather fitting.
http://i53.tinypic.com/117xrhg.jpg - A little more artsy, definitely creepy.
http://i52.tinypic.com/24op11k.jpg - I'm actually going from least favorite to favorite here.
http://i52.tinypic.com/ajs7m1.jpg - And the last one, which I personally like.

I've got another half dozen or so that I didn't deem 100% accurate, in my image folder, that might nonetheless fit. If the above don't suit your tastes, let me know what you're looking for, exactly, and I'll take a look.

Gorgondantess
2011-01-14, 02:13 PM
psst, I think you're putting a bit too much work into this monster. Whenever I start talking to things, it indicates it's time to take a break.:smalltongue:
Naw, just means I'm doing my job right... giving it life, you know? See? It can walk, and talk, and FEEL! IIIIIT'S ALIIIIIIIIIIIVVEEEEEE!
It's Igor.


That's sweet, but you should do it. Besides, I can't find a half decent image of the creature (Don't like the base image, there's way too many variants on the creature that don't fit the D&D description, and there's a ton of bad art by chimera lovers, with a scarcity of good stuff); that always hampers my enthusiasm to do the monster.
Actually, Hyudra, that seems right up your alley. I'd prefer if you'd do it myself.



Gorgondantess: I spotted your 'find an image for the pseudonatural creature' contest, a ways back. I dunno if you still need it, but perhaps one of these images will suit your needs, or will help inspire you to go that extra mile as you work on the class (I find a good image is great inspiration/motivation for me).

http://i51.tinypic.com/24c7eqp.jpg - Sadly not in color, though arguably rather fitting.
http://i53.tinypic.com/117xrhg.jpg - A little more artsy, definitely creepy.
http://i52.tinypic.com/24op11k.jpg - I'm actually going from least favorite to favorite here.
http://i52.tinypic.com/ajs7m1.jpg - And the last one, which I personally like.

I've got another half dozen or so that I didn't deem 100% accurate, in my image folder, that might nonetheless fit. If the above don't suit your tastes, let me know what you're looking for, exactly, and I'll take a look.
Actually, Chump won that one.
http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx295/AugustNight/lf-9.jpg
Though if you have any others along the same vein you think are good, go ahead and throw 'em at me.

Hyudra
2011-01-14, 02:41 PM
Yeah, I'm not aiming to win or nothing, just thought it'd help inspire you. To be frank (no offense to Chumplump) the image you've got isn't what I imagine when I think 'pseudonatural creature'.

Makiru
2011-01-14, 06:01 PM
Solamith
HD, skill points, proficiencies need proper formatting. Bolded headings at the very least.
Easy enough fix

It seems to get 'Demon' too early. Compare to other demons, who get it at 2nd. Consistency is key.
I'll see what I can do about that

The Solamith is immune to its own soulfire and that of other solamiths... what's to stop a group of PCs from just having each player play Solamith and bombard their way through every encounter?
Good catch! I'll change it to just be its own soulfire.

The summon monster is kinda weak, given the very limited number of uses. Consider allowing one to use a lower level summon monster skill, more times a day? So at level N, I can use the highest level summon monster (Say, Summon Monster V) I have available once a day, or use one a step lower (Summon Monster IV) twice a day?
Was trying to keep the format the same as the other demons in that regard. I'll look into your suggestion.


If Foreign Soulfire fuel is a concern here, consider having lesser summoned creatures (ie. the summon monster IV instance) be destroyed absolutely by the offering of their flesh, effectively giving you only one unbuffed shot.
That's probably a good idea for a limiting factor.

I would reword "is Reflex half (10 + 1/2HD + Con modifer)." to "allows a reflex save (10 + ...) for half damage.
Nitpicky, but I'll fix it.

State, in each ability description, when that ability is gained.
See above.

Widen Soulfire - I'd state that taking that extra damage is voluntary. Reword to something like "At Xth level, the Solamith can choose to take extra damage when using Soulfire. For every 2 damage taken in this way..."
That's supposed to be the intent, but I'll clean it up for clarification.

Again, with Abyssal Defenses, Solamith gains the ability at a level different from other demons. Consider switching the place of Abyssal Defenses and Growth.
I'll check to see if that makes sense. I think I made it the way it is because it's a pretty one-trick-pony class and wanted to give it something good a little bit earlier.

Maximize Soulfire - For every 4 extra points of damage taken... so if I take 8 self damage, then I get +2 die of damage (Maximize Soulfire) and +10' blast radius (Widen Soulfire)? Or do they not stack? Clarify.
Again, that's supposed to be the intent, but I'll clarify it.

Finally, I don't like it having full BAB and Str bonuses. One or the other (If ability to land ranged attacks is an issue, consider allowing Str to apply to the ranged attack rolls).
I'll see if I can replace the strength bonus with something else.

EDIT: Made changes.

Super_Fluous
2011-01-15, 12:41 AM
Alas, I do not think I am going to have the time right now to rework the flesh golem class I started a while back. If anyone else is willing to work on it, they are welcome to.

Also, while I am here, might I request a Deathless template?

Mystic Muse
2011-01-15, 03:17 AM
I should probably mention that I am still working on overhauling the Silver dragon.

Hyudra
2011-01-15, 01:01 PM
Storm Giant
Monster Class
SRD, Monster Manual I
http://i55.tinypic.com/1zd52c3.jpg

Class:

HD: D8
{TABLE]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
1| +0| +2| +0| +2| Storm Giant body, Powerful Build, Str+1, Con+1
2| +1| +3| +0| +3| Tempestuous, Assail, Zap, Str+1, Con+1
3| +2| +3| +1| +3| Thunder and Lightning, Torrential Attack Str+1, Con+1
4| +3| +4| +1| +4| Growth, Throw Stone, Catch, Str+1, Con+1
5| +3| +4| +1| +4| Trample, Thunderbolt, Str+1, Con+1
6| +4| +5| +2| +5| Call The Thunder, Thundercloud Throne, Str+1, Con+1
7| +5| +5| +2| +5| Monsoon Spirit, Str+1, Con+1
8| +6| +6| +2| +6| Unflinching, Thunderstroke, Str+1, Con+1
9| +6| +6| +3| +6| Thunder Step, Lightning Palm, Str+1, Con+1
10| +7| +7| +3| +7| Breath of Squalls, Str+1, Con+1
11| +8| +7| +3| +7| Thunderstorm, Str+1, Con+1
12| +8| +8| +4| +8| Rolling Thunder/Forked Lightning, Str+1, Con+1
13| +8| +8| +4| +8| Eye of the Storm, Str+1, Con+1
[/TABLE]
Skill Points: 4+int modifier per level, quadruple at first level.
Class Skills: Climb, Concentration, Craft (Any), Diplomacy, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Perform (sing), Sense Motive, Spot, Swim.

Proficiencies: All simple and martial weapons, his own natural weapons, and light armor.

Storm Giant Body: The Storm Giant loses all other racial bonuses, and gains giant traits (mainly low light vision), a base speed of 30 feet, two natural slam attacks doing 1d4+Str each and a +1 racial bonus on thrown rocks. Lastly, he gains natural armor equal to his Con bonus.

Storm Giants gain a racial bonus to Swim checks equal to half their HD, and can always take 10 while swimming, even when endangered. Storm Giants ignore any and all weight penalties for gear carried while swimming.

Ability score increase: a Storm Giant gains +1 Str and +1 Con for each level in this class. By thirteenth level, a Storm Giant has +13 Str and +13 Con.

Powerful Build: At first level, a Storm Giant gains Powerful Build. The physical stature of Giants lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever the Giant is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the Giant is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A Giant is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A Giant can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.

Tempestuous: At second level, the Storm Giant gains a resistance to electricity equal to double his HD. Further, the Storm Giant gains a bonus to saves against deafness and blindness equal to his HD or his charisma bonus, whichever is higher. Finally, the Storm Giant can now see without difficulty in even the heaviest rainfall.

At 9HD, the Storm Giant is immune to electricity damage.

Assail: Starting at second level, the Storm Giant may leverage his strength to tear through the ranks of those lesser than him. When the Storm Giant successfully strikes and damages a foe smaller than him with a melee or ranged physical attack, he delivers damage equal to his slam, without the strength bonus, to each foe within 5' of his target. For each size category the Storm Giant grows, this increases by 5'.

Zap: A second level Storm Giant can strike foes with bolts of lightning from great range. The Storm Giant can fire off a bolt with a 120 ft range, dealing 1d6 damage, with an added 1d6 damage at 4HD and every 2HD thereafter. The attack automatically arcs towards the target, but the foe gets a Reflex save (DC 10 + ½ Storm Giant's HD + Storm Giant's Cha) to avoid the damage entirely. Zap is a spell-like ability with a spell level equal to half the Storm Giant's HD.

In addition, a Storm Giant who multiclasses into an arcane caster class can now count his Storm Giant levels as levels of that class for purposes of CL/ML and for the purposes of learning new spells/powers and getting new spell slots/power points. However, he does not retroactively gain spell slots or new spells for caster levels he did not take, nor does he add his Storm Giant level to his character level for the purpose of class features, such as familiars. Storm Giants cast non-SLA electricity spells at +1 caster level.

Thunder and Lightning: Starting at third level, the Storm Giant's natural instincts in combat and controlling the weather come together in a duality mirroring that of Thunder and Lightning. Any time the Storm Giant strikes a foe for physical damage, he applies one 'Surge of Thunder' charge to that foe. Likewise, any time the Storm Giant delivers lightning damage to a foe, he applies one 'Surge of Lightning' charge to that foe. These charges can accumulate indefinitely, but if one full round passes without the Storm Giant attacking or using an ability that potentially deals electricity damage, then any lingering surges dissipate. If a foe moves more than 200' away from the Storm Giant, then all surges fade from that foe.

The latent charges on a foe come into effect when the Storm Giant follows through with an appropriate form of attack:

Surge of Thunder:
One Surge of Thunder is applied to any foe damaged by a physical attack of the Storm Giant, be it a ranged or melee attack. Should the Storm Giant deliver lightning damage to a foe with lingering Surges of Thunder, then all surges are removed from that foe and the foe is thrown 5' away from the Storm Giant (or from the origin of the blast in the case of area of effect damage) for every surge removed. Such foes must make a DC (10 + ½ Storm Giant's HD + Storm Giant's Cha mod + 2 for every surge removed) Balance check or fall prone as they hit the ground. Foes who cannot move the full distance due to intervening obstacles take 1d6 damage for every 2HD of the Storm Giant instead, plus 1d6 damage for every 5' remaining in the movement. Foes colliding with something deliver the same damage to the obstacle (be it a terrain feature, wall or living creature) as they themselves take. Creatures who would be struck by an airborne foe may make a reflex save (DC 10 + ½ Storm Giant's HD + Storm Giant's Cha mod) to avoid being struck, in which case the flying foe passes through the square. Uses of Assail (A Storm Giant ability described above) will apply a Surge of Thunder to any foes adjacent to the Storm Giant's target, in addition to the target.

Surge of Lightning:
One Surge of Lightning is applied to any foe dealt lightning damage by a spell, SLA, (non-weapon) magical item or ability of the Storm Giant. Should the Storm Giant deal physical damage to a foe with latent Surge of Lightning charges on them, then all Surges are removed from that foe and the foe must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ Storm Giant's HD + Storm Giant's Str mod) or be Blinded and Deafened for one round per surge removed. Creatures with other means of sensing foes (such as blindsense, tremorsense or mindsight) are nonetheless shaken enough by the attack that their effective ranges for these abilities are halved.
A Storm Giant cannot add a surge on the same round that he triggers one: abilities that trigger a Surge of Thunder do not add a Surge of Lightning to any foes, and vice versa. Attacks that deal both physical and lightning damage (such as a magic weapon that deals bonus electricity damage) add only Surges of Thunder. The Storm Giant cannot add Surges to opponents who could not grant him experience.

Torrential Attack: At third level, the Storm Giant is well versed enough in the nuances of the storm, and can alter his attacks and techniques to optimal effect. Any time the Storm Giant deals damage, he may make half of that damage lightning damage. Further, any time the Storm Giant deals lightning damage (not counting abilities already turned partially or wholly to lightning damage by Torrential Attack), he may instead choose to deal half damage and deliver sonic damage instead. Attacks and abilities altered by way of Torrential Attack do not add Surges of Lightning or trigger Surges of Thunder, as described in Thunder and Lightning, above.

At 6HD, the Storm Giant counts any attack altered with Torrential Attack as though it were magical, with an effective enhancement bonus of +1 per 4HD of the Storm Giant.

At 10HD, the Storm Giant may choose to make the entirety of any damage dealt by attacks, spells or abilities into lightning damage.

At 14HD, the Storm Giant may turn any lightning damage into sonic damage, without halving the damage dealt.

At 18HD, the Storm Giant may add Surges of Lightning as appropriate.

Growth: At fourth level, the Storm Giant finishes growing to large size but loses Powerful Build. His AC, bonus to hit, slam damage, grapple and skills change accordingly, but doesn't get any ability score bonus or penalties. The giant's base movement speed increases by 10' (This movement boost occurs again at 12HD and 20HD, as the giant increases in size again).

The Giant continues to grow throughout his life:
At 8HD, the Storm Giant reacquires Powerful Build, granting partial benefits of Huge size.
At 12HD, the Storm Giant grows to Huge size and loses Powerful Build.
At 16HD, the Storm Giant reacquires Powerful Build, granting partial benefits of Gargantuan size.
At 20HD, the Storm Giant grows to Gargantuan size and loses Powerful Build.

Throw Stone: At fourth level, the Storm Giant may begin throwing boulders or other large objects. A giant of at least Large size can hurl rocks weighing 40 to 50 pounds each (Small objects) up to 700 feet. A Huge giant can hurl rocks of 60 to 80 pounds (Medium objects). A Gargantuan giant can hurl rocks of 90 to 120 pounds (large objects). Inanimate objects of similar size and heft may be substituted, but you lose the racial bonus to attack rolls and have half the range.

Catch: At fourth level, a giant that would normally be hit by a rock can make a Reflex save to catch it as a free action. The DC is 15 for a Small rock, 20 for a Medium one, and 25 for a Large one. (If the projectile provides a magical bonus on attack rolls, the DC increases by that amount.) The giant must be ready for and aware of the attack in order to make a rock catching attempt.

Trample: At fifth level, as a full-round action, The Giant can move up to twice his speed and literally run over any opponents at least one size category smaller than itself. The Giant merely has to move over the opponents in its path; any creature whose space is completely covered by the Giant’s space is subject to the trample attack. If a target’s space is larger than 5 feet, it is only considered trampled if the Giant moves over all the squares it occupies.

A trample attack deals bludgeoning damage (the Giant’s slam damage + 1½ times his Str modifier).

Trampled opponents can attempt attacks of opportunity, but these take a -4 penalty. If they do not make attacks of opportunity, trampled opponents can attempt Reflex saves to take half damage.

The save DC against the Giant’s trample attack is 10 + ½ Giant's HD + Giant’s Str modifier. The Giant can only deal trampling damage to each target once per round, no matter how many times its movement takes it over a target creature.

Thunderbolt: The fifth level Storm Giant is capable of releasing much more devastating bolts of lightning. His Zap becomes Thunderbolt, with the following changes: it now operates as a 120' line attack, offering a Reflex save (10 + ½ Storm Giant's HD + Storm Giant's Cha) to each creature within its area for half damage on a successful save. See Zap for damage progression.

The Thunderbolt sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in its path. It can melt metals with a low melting point, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, or bronze. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the bolt may continue beyond the barrier if the spell’s range permits; otherwise, it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.

Call the Thunder: At sixth level, the Storm Giant can distill the latent energies in the surroundings into a delayed but powerful column of lightning. The Storm Giant must, as a standard action, designate a 5' square within 200'. This range increases by 20' per HD of the Storm Giant.

At the beginning of the Storm Giant's next turn, the target area is struck with a torrent of lightning that strikes from above. The lightning takes the form of a column with a 20' spread that extends from the ceiling or 7 miles up into the atmosphere, down to the ground. The column strikes everyone within the area for 1d6 lightning damage per HD of the Storm Giant, with a reflex save (DC 10 + ½ Storm Giant's HD + Storm Giant's Cha) for half damage. For 1d4 rounds after this ability strikes, the Storm Giant loses use of his Zap, Thunderbolt, Thunderstroke, Thunderstorm, Torrential Attack and Call the Thunder abilities. Subtract 1 from the roll if the Storm Giant is outdoors, and a further 1 from the roll if the Storm Giant is in a stormy area (a rain shower, clouds and wind, hot and cloudy conditions, or even a tornado).

Foes are aware if they are in the area of an incoming column of lightning, as the air crackles and the smallest hairs on their body stand on end. Foes that enter the area as part of their movement become aware of the imminent threat. Structures and objects that are firmly affixed to the ground will ground the electricity and take no damage.

Should the Storm Giant wish, he may focus and direct the lightning. To do so, he must spend a full round casting Call the Thunder, with the benefit of being able to choose the target area as the casting completes. Doing so detracts from the primal nature of the effect, however, and halves the damage to 1d4 damage per HD of the Storm Giant, with a reflex save (see above) negating it entirely.

At 12HD, the Storm Giant may designate a total number of target areas equal to half his Charisma bonus, provided the squares at the center of each blast radius are at least 30' from one another.

At 18HD, the Storm Giant may designate a total number of target areas equal to his Charisma bonus, provided the squares at the center of each blast radius are at least 30' from one another.

Thundercloud Throne: Starting at sixth level, the Storm Giant may seat himself on a throne of dark, rumbling clouds, giving him the ability to take to the air. The Thundercloud Throne can be created with a full round action that provokes attacks of opportunity, and directed to move 20' a round in a given direction with a standard action. The Throne then continues moving in the chosen direction until it is stopped or the direction is changed with another standard action. The movement is heavily affected by wind strength, increasing in speed by 20' a round for every step of wind strength after 'light' (ie. 40' a round at 'moderate', 60' a round at strong, 80' a round at severe, and so on.), so long as you are moving in the direction of the wind. If the wind is magically generated (such as by a control weather effect) by an ally or the Storm Giant himself, then the Thundercloud Throne gains the bonus speed even when moving against the wind direction.

The Thundercloud Throne is such that only the Storm Giant treats it as solid, and only when such is beneficial to the Storm Giant. The Thundercloud Throne only provides partial cover to the Storm Giant for attacks from below, and provides no cover to enemies. That said, the Throne is a poor platform for attacks, and offers the same cumulative penalties for attacks as the Levitate spell, with the same ability to use a full round action to stabilize and reset the penalties.

The Throne dissipates in 1 round if the Storm Giant is not seated upon it, and otherwise dissolves after a duration of 1 minute per HD of the Storm Giant. The Thundercloud Throne may be created once a day for every 5HD of the Giant.

At 11HD, the Thundercloud Throne may be directed with a move action rather than a standard action.

At 15HD, the Thundercloud Throne offers no penalties for attacks.

At 17HD, the Thundercloud Throne may be directed with a swift action instead.

Monsoon Spirit: Starting at seventh level, the Storm Giant is so intimate with the manner in which the storm affects the sea that he may effortlessly pass from open air to water below. The Storm Giant comes under the effect of an endless Freedom of Movement effect, gains the ability to breathe underwater and can effortlessly use any class abilities while underwater, with the exception of Call the Thunder.

Unflinching: The eighth level Storm Giant is capable of standing tall and unblinking against gale force winds, and may reflexively withstand or bat aside the attacks of lesser creatures in the same way he takes on flying debris. The Storm Giant gains the ability to automatically resist the attacks delivered by creatures smaller than him. This applies automatically to the next attack successfully delivered by any creature smaller than the Giant, rendering the attack into an effective miss. This ability recharges in 1d4 rounds, with the recharge time reduced by one round sooner for every time the Storm Giant successfully strikes a creature smaller than him. Creatures that could not grant the Storm Giant experience do not reduce the recharge time in this manner.

Thunderstroke: At eighth level, the Storm Giant is capable of using lightning to tear through the ranks of his enemies with artful ease. His Thunderbolt becomes Thunderstroke, with the following changes: it now operates either as a line attack as described under Thunderbolt, or it can be used as a 120' range touch attack that branches off to strike additional targets for half damage. Each additional target must be within 30' of the previous target, no target may be struck more than once, and the total number of targets (including the primary) cannot exceed ½ your HD. The damage increases to 1d6 lightning damage for every HD of the Storm Giant. A successful reflex save (DC 10 + ½ Storm Giant's HD + Storm Giant's Cha) will halve damage in the case of the line attack or the primary target of the branching attack and will negate the damage for the secondary targets of the branching attack. For 1d4 rounds after using the branching variant of this ability, the Storm Giant loses use of his Zap, Thunderbolt, Thunderstroke, Thunderstorm, Torrential Attack and Call the Thunder abilities. Subtract 1 from the roll if the Storm Giant is outdoors, and a further 1 from the roll if the Storm Giant is in a stormy area (a rain shower, clouds and wind, hot and cloudy conditions, or even a tornado).

At 13HD, this effect can strike a total number of targets equal to the Storm Giant's HD.

Thunder Step: Starting at ninth level, when the Storm Giant triggers a latent Surge of Thunder (Described in Thunder and Lightning, above), he may transport himself, moving in the moment that bright light and pealing thunder obscures the senses. This operates as a Dimension Door spell, but the target destination is the area previously occupied by the target. A Storm Giant seated on his Thundercloud Throne may bring it with him as Thunder Steps. If the Storm Giant uses Thunder Step and the target was smaller than the Storm Giant, then the Storm Giant may make an attack of opportunity against the flying foe for every surge removed after the first, striking with a series of quick strikes as the foe is sent into the air. This does not count against the Storm Giant's attacks of opportunity for the round, and the Storm Giant is only limited in the number of attacks that he may unleash by the number of surges spent. Attacks made in this manner do not add any Surges.

The knockback effect of spent Surges of Thunder extends to 10' per surge spent, regardless of whether Thunder Step is activated.

Lightning Palm: At ninth level, the Storm Giant gains the ability to bring catastrophic amounts of concussive force to bear when triggering latent Surges of Lightning (Described in Thunder and Lightning, above). The effect of spent Surges of Lightning extends; on a failed save, the victim is rendered blind and deaf for one minute per surge spent, instead. Further, if the victim's result on the Fortitude Save against the blindness and deafness does not exceed (5 x Surges of Lightning spent + ½ Storm Giant's HD + Storm Giant's Str Mod), the victim is killed outright, instead. This is an extraordinary ability and a massive damage effect.

Breath of Squalls: The tenth level Storm Giant is capable of sending opponents tumbling head over heels with a single powerful breath, charged with the element of wind. As a standard action, the Storm Giant can use Gust of Wind as a standard action. This is an extraordinary ability, and counts as the Storm Giant attacking for the purposes of keeping any latent Surges active (A round spent using Breath of Squalls will not count as a round spent out of the fight and summarily, will not cause Surges of Thunder or Surges of Lightning to fade away).

Starting at 19HD, the Storm Giant can use this ability as a swift action.

Thunderstorm: At eleventh level, the Storm Giant may elect to make iterative attacks with his Thunderstroke ability. In doing so, he is limited to using the line-type attack. The DC for any additional Thunderstrokes is cumulatively decreased by -5 for each one fired after the first, with damage negated on a successful save.

Further, should he so wish, the Storm Giant may elect to waive a physical attack in favor of delivering a Thunderstroke. The DC is penalized as described above (-5 if you replace the second attack in a full attack, -10 for the third, and so on) and again, the damage is negated on a successful save.

Rolling Thunder/Forked Lightning: The twelfth level Storm Giant is a terrible force, relentless as the storm itself. He now adds two surges of the appropriate type, the first time he damages an opponent in a given round.

Eye of the Storm: At thirteenth level, the Storm Giant is a literal force of nature, his very presence affecting the direction of the wind and drawing an accumulation of thundering clouds overhead. The Cloud Giant is the subject of a permanent Control Weather effect, only the effect has a radius of one mile for every 5HD of the Giant, centered on the Giant himself. Further, the Storm Giant can always make it rain, regardless of the season.

Comments
The Storm Giant. Not quite so tough or impossible to topple as some of the other Giants - he's still hampered by difficult terrain and doesn't get as many gimmicks for avoiding hassles. Put simply, he's tough, yes, but he's not a tank.

That said, what he does is tear **** up. I built him as a hybrid caster/brawler, with the Thunder and Lightning duality to complement that. You're effectively building up combo points and unleashing those points at your whim, for impressive effect.

I think the Storm Giant gives off a pretty feel of being 'impressive', as is fitting for the kings of giants, without being overly overpowered. I tried to avoid per-day effects where possible and balance in another way. I think it works out fairly well, but I encourage critiques.

Changelog
Changed skin color from blue to purple in the pic, to fit more with standard monster manual description.

Jan 23rd
Assail changed from "Melee does damage to adjacent equal to your slam damage (sans strength) and Ranged deals damage equal to the base weapon damage" to just using the slam.
Call the Thunder damage changed from 1d8/HD to 1d6/HD.
Unflinching phrasing clarified.
Stressed that the penalty for iterative thunderstrokes under Thunderstorm is cumulative.

Hyudra
2011-01-18, 10:18 PM
Wow, guess my Storm Giant killed the thread. That bad?

If anyone needs or wants reviews, or wants to post a creature even though their current stuff isn't quite done, speak up.

The Antigamer
2011-01-18, 10:31 PM
Wow, guess my Storm Giant killed the thread. That bad?

If anyone needs or wants reviews, or wants to post a creature even though their current stuff isn't quite done, speak up.

I could use a quick check-up on whether the changes to Gray Jester were satisfactory. I haven't had time to do much on the board this weekend, had a program that needed writing, but I think I'll be able to review some more classes after tomorrow.

Makiru
2011-01-18, 11:05 PM
I looked at storm giant yesterday but couldn't find anything glaringly wrong with it. I'm not very good at critiquing something, just making it, which is why I chose not to say anything.

tl;dr: storm giant looks fine, but get another opinion.

Also, if you didn't catch the tiny edit I did in my last post, I did revise the solamith based on the suggestions given. I'm afraid I kinda made it a little SAD, but it might be OK due to it hemorrhaging HP every time it makes an attack, let alone iterative attacks.

Gorgondantess
2011-01-19, 02:10 AM
The instant I finish the Pseudonatural Creature, I'm reviewing the Storm Giant. I've looked it over, though, and as a preliminary, something to consider: being a mediocre blaster and a mediocre fighter doesn't make you a good character, it makes you a mediocre character. It's like being a sorcerer 10/fighter 10. The abilities don't mesh unless you can use both at once.

The Winter King
2011-01-19, 05:52 PM
Jovoc


http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mm2_gallery/88268_620_26.jpg
HD: d10
{table=head]Level|Bab|Fort|Ref|Will|Feature
1|+ 1|+ 2 |+ 0 | +0| Body of Vengeance, Double Claw, +1 Con
2|+ 2|+ 3 |+ 0| +0|Demon, Abyssal Skin, +1 Str,
3|+ 3|+ 3|+ 1| +1|Retributive Aura, +1 Con,
4|+ 4|+ 4|+ 1| +1| Rapid Recovery, +1 Str
5|+ 5|+ 4|+ 1| +1|Shared Doom, +1 Con[/table]
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple weapons and natural weapons

Skills: 4 + Int modifier. Balance, Bluff, Craft, Climb, Concentration, Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Profession, Sense Motive, Spot.

1st Level:
Body of Vengeance: You lose all previous racial bonuses and gain outsider traits (Darkvision 60ft) and the Chaotic and Evil subtypes. It's a small sized outsider with a base land speed of 30ft. A Jovoc has two claw attacks dealing 1d4 damage each and all your attacks count as being both evil and chaotic aligned.
You gain a natural armor bonus equal to your constitution modifier.

Double Claw: You may attack with both claws as a standard attack.

Ability Score Increases: Your constitution increases by 1 at 1st, 3rd and 5th levels. (+3 overall)
Your strength increases by 1 at 2nd and 4th levels. (+2 overall)

2nd Level:
Demon: You gain telepathy equal to 30ft + 10ft per HD. You gain resistance to electricity equal to your HD and an equal bonus on saves against poison. You gain resistance to acid, cold and fire equal to half your HD.

Abyssal Skin: You gain DR/good or cold iron equal to half your HD. At 10 HD, this becomes DR/good and cold iron. You gain SR equal to 11 + your HD.


3rd Level:
Retributive Aura (Su): Whenever you take damage from any source (including ability damage), all creatures within a 30ft spread must make a Fortitude save (DC=10+1/2HD+Con bonus) or immediately take an amount of damage equal to half the damage that you took.
Regardless of what the original source of the damage was, the damage dealt by this ability is not subject to negation or reduction due to resistance, immunity, damage reduction, spell resistance or similar abilities.
You may choose to exclude any number of creatures from this effect.

At 8HD this ability deals damage equal to that taken.

At 16HD this ability inflicts any condition you are suffering from upon those within half range

4th Level:
Rapid Recovery: You gain Fast Healing equal to 1/2 your HD.

At 7HD you regain 1 point of ability damage each minute.

At 14HD you regain 1 point of ability damage each round and 1 point of ability drain an hour.

5th Level:

Shared Doom: 1/day/5HD You may as a full round action invoke the ritual of shared doom. To perform the ritual you must ingest a small part of the victim (dealing at least one point of damage with a melee attack fulfills this requirement). Once performed you and the victim are bound together. Your victim is affected by your aura of retribution no matter where it is and never receives a saving throw. This ability lasts until you choose to release the victim and you may have a maximum number of victims equal to your Con modifier.

In addition you always know the victim's location and teleportation effects and the planeshift spell are accurate.

In addition both you and the victim are affected by any spell or spell-like ability that affects the other although you both make saves seperately and only need to make the save if the other fails their save.
The Risk
There is some risk to this technique as the victim can harm you as though the link. The victm can affect you as if the victim possessed the aura of retribution and shared doom abilities identical to your own(in other words it also always knows your location and you take any damage it takes however this damage does not activate your AoR nor does damage your AoR activate the victims effective AoR)

ConditionsFor the purpose of Retributive Aura the following are considered conditions: Ability Burn, Ability Drain, Blinded, Confused, Cowering, Dazed, Dazzled, Deafened, Disabled, Entangled, Exhausted, Fascinated, Fatigue, Frightened, Grappling, Nauseated, Panicked, Paralyzed, Shaken, Sickened, Silenced(as the spell), Stable, Staggered, and StunnedThe following conditions are included with a shared doom active on a victim:Blown Away, Checked, Dead, Dying, Energy Drained, Flat-Footed, Helpless, Incorporeal, Invisible, Knocked Down, Petrified, Pinned, Prone, and Unconscious I personally suggest using these as the limits for Iron Heart Surge as well. It is however up to the DM where to include spells that do not inflict damage or these conditions.


Comments The jovoc is a small tough guy that can recover from damage really quickly and causes those who damage it to suffer. Its shared doom ensures that an opponent can never escape from it and cant be ignored because it can move and attack itself causeing it to be able to use its melee attacks as area of effect attacks

I am looking at retributive aura and it feels strong but I didnt change it all that much from MM2

1/21/2011 Edit clarified the Risk, also made it so any spell that affects the victim or the jovoc affects the other as well to solve the healing problem and the teleportation issue is solved by it knowing your exact location.

Lord_Gareth
2011-01-19, 06:11 PM
Has anyone re-done the Eryines yet? The original class was more "Girl with rope" rather than "LE Temptress and political machinator".

bladesmith
2011-01-19, 06:32 PM
Sorry I haven't been around to help review. Unfortunately, I still don't really have time to do much reviewing, but I thought I'd toss out a comment on the Storm Giant after a quick look. Namely, the Assail ability. For one: Is the size requirement affected by Powerful Build? So, would Assail still work if a medium giant with Powerful build were beating up on another medium target? I'm pretty sure it doesn't work like that, but it might not hurt to have a word or three that makes it a little more definite. Also, and this is probably more then a little hypocritical of me after working on the Remorhaz, but automatic damage always felt weird to me. I mean, taking damage with no save, only having to hit someone else's AC rather then yours... I dunno. It just doesn't seem right. I mean, I guess you could get damage reduction by 4th level, when Assail actually becomes an issue to deal with the relatively small amount of damage dealt(being without the significant giant STR bonuses), but it still seems a little wonky to me.

I like the idea of pounding through masses of foes, though, so good idea and flavor. Just, no so much on the actual workings. Hopefully I'll be able to come up with something more helpful then that with a little thinking.

Gorgondantess
2011-01-19, 09:07 PM
Jovoc tactic for ridiculous awesomeness:
Get reach. Attack an enemy with shared doom. Teleport away. Have all your allies attack you with things like power attack, take the hits while the cleric is healing you. You're now the perfect assassin. One hit and any enemy is going down, and good.

mootoall
2011-01-19, 09:21 PM
Is the clarification for Double Claw necessary? I thought you could always use all of your natural attacks as a standard action.

Gorgondantess
2011-01-19, 09:26 PM
Is the clarification for Double Claw necessary? I thought you could always use all of your natural attacks as a standard action.

Nope. Attacking with 2 claws even requires a full round action. Unless by maneuver or feat or something like that, attacking more than once in one round requires a full round action.

Hyudra
2011-01-19, 09:28 PM
Jovoc tactic for ridiculous awesomeness:
Get reach. Attack an enemy with shared doom. Teleport away. Have all your allies attack you with things like power attack, take the hits while the cleric is healing you. You're now the perfect assassin. One hit and any enemy is going down, and good.

I raised this issue when the Jovoc was first posted, and it's still there, which made me think it wasn't updated, at first.

Bladesmith, I hear you on the automatic damage, but I don't know that it's gamebreaking. You're still having to make a successful attack, initially, and I was concerned that something like "If your attack roll would hit any creatures adjacent to the target, they take slam damage as well" would be tedious or overly complex.

The Winter King
2011-01-21, 10:32 PM
Edited the jovoc slghtly

Kobold-Bard
2011-01-22, 01:50 PM
Quasi-God (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10077255&postcount=719) updated, Personal Plane redone being the big change.

I'm also hereby relinquishing any dibs I had on the Chimera, I had a go at making a start on it and it just wasn't up to snuff; I'm not going to do it justice.

Saidoro
2011-01-22, 08:26 PM
Quasi-God: Divine Rank 0

Class:
Pre-reqs
- 8HD
- Knowledge (Religion): 4 ranks
- Charisma 11 No love for the Hephaestus?
- Successfully complete a trial of supreme difficulty, thus earning your Divinity. Generally this involves defeating a challenge with a CR higher than your ECL singlehandedly, though it could be something more abstract at the DM's discretion.

Hit Dice: d8
{table]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1| *| *| *| *|Deific body, Divine Spark, +1 Stat
2| *| *| *| *|Fledgling Portfolio, Shield of Divinity, +1 Cha
3| *| *| *| *|Manifestation of Divinity, Timeless Body, +1 Stat
4| *| *| *| *|Hamper the Competition, +1 Cha
5| *| *| *| *|Divine Dealings, Immortal, +1 Stat[/table]
Class Skills: (* Int Mod/Level) Knowledge (Religion), any 6 skills (chosen at 1st level and cannot be changed)

Proficiencies: Quasi-God grants proficiency with all Simple Weapons, Light Armour & Shields (but not Tower Shields). Why?

Divinity manifests differently in each of the rare few who achieve it. As such the classes abilities vary depending on the creatures outlook on life.
The symbols in the table above are chosen by the player when they take their first level of this class and cannot be changed afterwards. They have access to 7 points to spend on the class.
* - BAB defaults to that of a Wizard. By spending 1 point they can increase it to that of a Rogue, and by spending 2 additional points (3 total) they can increase it to that of a Fighter.
* - All three Saves (Fort, Ref, Will) default to poor progression. Spending 2 points on a Save will increase it to the good Save Progression.
* - Skill Points default to 2 Int Mod/level. Spending 1 point will increase this to 4, a second point will make it 6, and a further (3rd) point will make it 8.

In addition the Quasi-God may tailor the growth of their class abilities to a certain extent:
- Spending two points will allow you to purchase one Monstrous Feat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10041982&postcount=663) to allow this class to advance a previous Class Feature.
- Spending points will allow you to advance previous Spellcasting, Manifesting or another progression (Manoeuvres, Essentia, Invocations, Soul Binding etc.) that the creature had, as if they had gained a level in that class. The amount of points spent determine how many levels advance spellcasting (eg. if a spellcaster spent 2 points it would mean Quasi-God levels 1 & 2 would advance their Caster Level, Spells/day & Spell Known (if applicable) but they would not gain any other benefits from their previous class). Spending any points on this option means the Quasi-God cannot spend any of these points to buy the Mind Afire Feat. Why would anyone do this when they can just take mind afire and get the same thing? (Unless I misunderstand that feat.)

Class Features

Deific Body (Ex): Unlike other Monster Classes the creature doesn't lose their racial traits when they take become a Quasi-God, but they do gain the Outsider Type (unless they were previously a Construct or Undead) and its Traits except that they can be revived as normal. Even if they were previously an Undead or Construct they choose a Plane which they feel is their home; they gain the Native subtype when on this Plane and the Extraplanar subtype when elsewhere. They also gain the subtype(s) that correspond to their alignment.

- They do not gain any natural attacks but they do gain a natural armour bonus equal to their Cha Mod.
- They retain their previous size and base land speed. Their Base movement speeds all increase by 10ft for every 5HD they have.
- Each of the races Age Categories increase to twice the norm, meaning their inherent lifespan is effectively doubled. Can this cause them to move into a younger age category?
- The Quasi-God gains +1 to it's Charisma score at 2nd & 4th level. At levels 1, 3 & 5 they may advance 1 stat of their choice (which may be different for each boost).

Divine Spark (Su): The transition into the life of a Deity is a big one, but this power isn't given to just anyone, and mastering this new strength gives many rewards.

Every 1d4 rounds the Quadi-God may unleash a pulse of (untyped) energy that deals 1d6/2HD damage. Additionally, 1/2HD each day they may instead heal/repair (for constructs) a creature (including yourself) by the same amount. This ability usually requires a successful ranged touch attack (medium range), though willing subjects of your healing power are successfully affected automatically (assuming they are in range and you have line of effect with them). This ability requires a standard action to use. I'd suggest making several abilities, each one having a at will power and a 1/2HD power. It seems odd that all deities would be able to do this.

1/5 rounds the Quasi-God may duplicate any of the following spells, using your HD as your Caster Level (Save DC 10+1/2HD+Cha Mod):
- Any Cantrip or Orison Cure minor wounds is an orison
- Charm Monster Why?

The Quasi-God may also shed light as a torch (that supersedes magical darkness) or create an area of magical darkness in a 60ft radius around themselves at will. Torches only shed 40 ft of light, why does darkness go farther? What happens if two quasideities are within 20 ft of each other? As written the light would win, but shouldn't the stronger god be the one in control? Giving the ability to see through magical darkness might be a good idea.

Fledgling Portfolio (Sp): The creature may only be a minor God, but they are a God nonetheless and as such they must consider their portfolio: the facets of reality that they will begin to hold sway over.

They may chose a single Cleric Domain (not including Planar Domains) and gain it's granted power. They may also cast each of the Domain's spells 1/day as a spell-like ability. Some domains grant wish, you should probably have a "you still pay XP costs" clause in here.

They may only cast spells that are of a level that a Cleric who's level matched your HD could cast (eg. a Quasi-God of 8HD could use the spells of Level 1-4, and a 17HD Quasi-God could utilise all the spells in their chosen Domain).

At 15HD & every 5HD after that they gain an additional use of each SLA.

Shield of Divinity (Ex): As a Deity, many mortal magics find great difficulty affecting the creature.

- At 2nd level they gain resistance to either Acid, Cold or Electric equal to your HD, becoming full Immunity at 14HD.
- At 3rd level they gain DR equal to 1/2 your HD that is overcome by one alignment that is opposed to an alignment subtype they gained from this class. If they gained none by being True Neutral then their DR is overcome by Adamantine.
- At 4th Level they gain SR equal to 11+HD.
- At 5th level they gain a bonus on Saves against mind-affecting abilities equal to 1/2 their HD.
- At 15 HD they become immune to energy drain, ability drain, or ability damage.

Manifestation of Divinity: At third level the Quasi-God chooses one of the abilities in the spoiler below:

Divine Companion (Ex):
The Quasi-God calls to their service a creature to serve as an ally and companion through their (possibly very) long life. This companion can be any animal that a Druid whose level matched your ECL could have.

The animal uses it's own stats (depending on it's current size; see below) and gains the benefits of being a Druid's Animal Companion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/druid.htm#theDruidsAnimalCompanion). It may also speak one language the Quasi-God does and can communicate telepathically with their master as long as they can see one another. As a full round action the Quasi-God may increase or decrease the Companion's size by one step, from Tiny - Huge (regardless of if the original animal was either larger or smaller than this, Divine Companions are always within this size bracket, and will grow or shrink to either Tiny or Huge upon becoming a Companion). At 16HD they may adjust the companion from Diminuitive - Gargantuan and at 21HD they may adjust the companion from Fine - Colossal.

If the Companion is killed they may expend 3 uses of Divine Spark's healing effect to resurrect them after 24 hours have passed. Each time the Quasi-God gains a level they may change the animal that their companion is.

Aura of Divinity (Su):
The Quasi-God exudes power and authority, they are surrounded by an aura of Divine Energy.

As a Move action the Quasi-God may grant themselves a 5ft/2HD aura around themselves that can affect those within it with one of several effects. Their aura may be active for 3 rounds/HD each day and they may spread these rounds throughout the day as they wish (dismissing the aura is a free action).

The Quasi-God chooses one major effect and two minor effects that they may use from the lists below. The Deity may have 1 effect active at a time initially. At 15HD they may have both minor effects active simultaneously, and at 20HD they may also choose to have their major and 1 minor effect active simultaneously.

Major Effects:

Resolve: All allies (including the Deity) within range of their aura receive a +1/3HD morale bonus on attack rolls, Saves, ability checks & skill checks.
Weaken: All enemies (excluding undead) suffer 1/4HD Negative levels that last for as long as they remain within the aura and for 1 hour afterwards (Fort Save DC 10+1/2HD+Cha Mod for half; minimum 0). Multiple applications do not stack, though re-entering the aura resets the hour before they fade.
Enhance: All allies (including the Deity) within range of their aura are treated as 1HD higher/4HD for effects that are dependant on it eg. Caster/Manifester level for spells/powers, Save DCs of abilities etc. These are not virtual or temporary HD (so new class levels/class features/spells/Hit Points/ Feats etc. are not gained, only the effects affected by an HD increase are affected.

Minor:
(Unless stated, all Minor effects grant a bonus/penalty of 1/5HD)
(Unless stated, any effects that affect allies also affect the Quasi-God)

Healing: All allies gain Fast Healing.
Drain: All enemies lose HP each round (no Save).
Senses: All allies gain a bonus to their Listen, Search & Spot checks, and to their Initiative.
Guard: All allies gain resistance of 5/5HD to one energy type (acid, cold, electric, fire, sonic). The energy type may be changed each time this effect is activated.
Bolster: All allies gain an insight bonus to 1 stat of the Quasi-God's choice (all allies receive this efect on the same stat, though the Quasi-God may change which stat it is every time they activate this ability).
Blur: All allies receive a Miss Chance of 5%/5HD. This is a displacement effect.

Far Sight (Su):
Knowledge is essential to successful growth as a Deity, and the Quasi-God is no exception, developing the skills necessary to expand their church.

As a Full Round action usable at-will, they may use a Scrying effect, the target's Will Save DC being 10+12/HD+Cha Mod+Quasi-God level, adjusted by the usual factors. Alternatively you may use a Clairaudience/Clairvoyance effect to see a location instead.

The Quasi-God gains Telepathy to a range of 5ft/HD. You may also communicate via Telepathy with anyone you can see through your Far Sight ability, and at your discretion you may create a Major Image (DC 10+12/HD+Cha Mod) of a creature of your choosing which appears within the area you can see by this ability.

Finally, the Quasi-God may take 10 on any Knowledge or Martial Lore check, gaining a bonus to Knowledge & Martial Lore checks equal to their Quasi-God level. These check bonuses are an (Ex) ability rather than (Su).

Divine Travel (Ex):
One of the greatest perks of being a Deity is the freedom to go wherever they please, and by choosing this ability they begin to unlock this power.

As a standard action the Quasi-God may teleport 5ft/HD. If they would end up inside a solid object they instead shunt to the nearest free space within range (if there are no free squares the teleport fails).

Additionally, 1/6HD each day they may mimic the Teleport spell (improving to Greater Teleport at 17HD), and 1/8HD they may utilise a Plane Shift effect.

Finally, they are under a permanent Feather Fall effect, are not troubled by difficult terrain and may fly at a speed equal to their base land speed with average manoeuvrability.

Personal Plane (Su):
The Quasi-God has their own minor Domain where they may rest, entertain and work.

The Quasi-God has their own demiplane (radius 10ft/HD). They may decide the temperature and geography of this plane, and may change them with 4 hours continuous effort. They may also decide the gravity, magic & alignment traits of the Plane (but not time traits or any others not explicitly allowed).

They may make the landscape out of any mundane material (not precious/alchemical metals, diamonds etc.) they wish and create any structure/plant life that they desire within it, but nothing except mundane food and drink created in the demiplane may be removed from it, nor have any effect in the real world.

While inside the demiplane all inhabitants gain Fast Healing 1/5HD up to 1/2 their max HP and any poisons or continuing negative effects (Melf's Acid Arrow, disease incubation period, negative levels etc.) are suspended, continuing as normal once the person leaves. This has the iron heart surge problem. Remember that dead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#dead) is defined as a condition. In addition, whilst inside the Quasi-God is completely immune to any spell, skill, (Ex), (Su), (Sp) or any other kind of effect of any kind (psionics etc. included as per transparency). The only exception is if a God of Divine Rank 1 or higher is inside and succeeds on a Will Save (DC 15+1/2 Quasi-God's HD+Quasi-God's Cha Modifier) or a God of Divine Rank 11 or higher succeeds on a similar check What about people the god doesn't want in his realm? do they still get healed?

At will, as a Full round action the Quasi-God may create a doorway in or out of their domain which can be dismissed by them as a swift action. They may also 1/10HD each day transfer themselves into the Plane as an immediate action. Except for these methods the demiplane is completely planar locked, meaning there is no other way in or out of it, and no planar effects such as Astral Projection may pass through it.

Timeless Body (Ex): Upon attaining 3rd level, the Quasi-God no longer takes penalties to their ability scores for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any such penalties they have already taken, however, remain in place. Bonuses still accrue, and they still dies of old age when their time is up (unless they gain the Immortal class feature before then).

Hamper the Competition (Su): As an Immediate action 1/5HD each day the Quasi-God may channel their growing Divine power and affect the spells of Divine Casters. To use this ability they must be within 60ft of the spellcaster, or be the target of the spell that they're casting. If you make a successful Concentration check (DC 10+spell level+Caster's primary casting stat modifier) the you may either cancel out their spell, wasting the caster's spell slot or duplicate it's effect on themself as well as the intended target(s).

Divine Dealings (Su): At 5th level the Quasi-God is truly accepted into the circles of the Supreme Beings.

All Divine spellcasters that share their alignment are treated as Helpful.

Additionally 1/week they may call on a more experienced and powerful deity that shares their alignment for assistance. They can ask them 1 question/4HD as the Contact Other Plane (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/contactOtherPlane.htm) spell, except theire is no risk of Stat damage & the answer is always true (assuming the Deity knows the answer What if the deity doesn't want to tell them?). They may also 1/day call on a Deity either for advice, to negotiate or simply to chat. This 1/day effect may not necessarily have a mechanical benefit, it is merely a way for the Quasi-God to grow as a Divine being.

They may also begin to exert their power on reality, 1/day utilising a Limited Wish effect. However this effect is powerful and until 17HD will Burn (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#abilityBurn) 2 points from a mental stat of the Quasi-God's choice. After 17 HD the Quasi-God no longer suffers Ability Burn when using this ability.

Finally, if the Quasi-God or an ally attempts to resurrect someone, their Divine network of contacts mean the Gods will allow the person to return at half the normal material component cost.

Immortal (Ex): At 5th level the Quasi-God truly surpasses mortality. They are now naturally immortal and cannot die from natural causes.

Quasi-God's now do not need to eat, sleep, or breathe and can. This ability extends the Quasi-God's Venerable or Great Wyrm Age Category by an infinite amount, meaning they still age mentally but due to their Timeless body class feature will not age physically.

In addition they gain a bonus equal to 1/2 their class level to one of:
- Any Saves they gave a good progression at Level 1
- A number of class skills equal to their skill points/level-2
- To their damage rolls if they gave their BAB a medium progression and to attack rolls if they gave it a good progression.

Comments in blue.

Kobold-Bard
2011-01-23, 04:28 AM
No love for the Hephaestus?

Hephaestus is a big, intimidating mofo. Besides, they're Gods, I'd say any of them have at least the Cha of a normal person.

Why?

Covers the basics, I was going to give Simple Weapons only, but figured that light armour and shields wasn't exactly game breaking.

Why would anyone do this when they can just take mind afire and get the same thing? (Unless I misunderstand that feat.)

With the Feat you don't gain retroactive spells. So if you were a Wizard 8/Q-G 5/Wizard +1 who didn't advance spellcasting and instead took Mind Afire they would have CL 14 & spells/day of 4/4/3/3/2/-/-/1/-/- rather than the 4/4/4/4/4/3/3/2/-/- a Q-G who advanced spellcasting, both gaining a single 8th level spell slot at Level 15.

The Feat is based on the Pseudo-spellcaster of classes like the Succubus, you don't gain the spells you missed on those monster levels that didn't advance spellcasting.

Can this cause them to move into a younger age category?

Good point. I'll add a clause saying yes, but regardless of age they never go below young adult.

I'd suggest making several abilities, each one having a at will power and a 1/2HD power. It seems odd that all deities would be able to do this.

What makes you think this is an odd ability to have?

Cure minor wounds is an orison

Ugh, if your DM is willing to let you sit there for hours on end (1/5 rounds, so 2 HP/minute) poking everyone back to full health then that's a problem with them not the spell. If it's really that much of an issue for people I'll add a clause barring CMW.

Why?

Along with the minimum Charisma, Gods are designed to be worshipped. Being able to give people a little poke in the right direction seemed like a good ability to me.

Torches only shed 40 ft of light, why does darkness go farther? What happens if two quasideities are within 20 ft of each other? As written the light would win, but shouldn't the stronger god be the one in control? Giving the ability to see through magical darkness might be a good idea.

It's supposed to read as them both going out to 60ft. I'll rearrange some stuff to accommodate these changes, the light vs. dark thing is a good point.

Some domains grant wish, you should probably have a "you still pay XP costs" clause in here.

As far as I'm aware no Domains grant Wish (except the Munchkin domain), just Miracle occasionally. Alright, I'll add that clause in.

This has the iron heart surge problem. Remember that dead is defined as a condition.

I said effect, not condition. Effect means something that's affecting you, being dead is a passive condition. But I've added a bit into a bracket.

What about people the god doesn't want in his realm? do they still get healed?

Alright, I'll add that in.

What if the deity doesn't want to tell them?

I assumed thay'd be using it on a Deity that will be friendly to them/sympathetic to their current aims. If the DM has decided that all the Gods are against the character so they can't get any info then that's their prerogative.

Volthawk
2011-01-23, 04:36 AM
Envy domain has Wish and Limited Wish, and the Spell domain has Limited Wish. Luck domain has Miracle.

Kobold-Bard
2011-01-23, 04:38 AM
Envy domain has Wish and Limited Wish, and the Spell domain has Limited Wish. Luck domain has Miracle.

OMGNOWAI!!

I was sure no domains gave wish, I knew about the other two (Glory & Zeal also give Miracle). OK, I'll put in an XP cost clause.

Gorgondantess
2011-01-23, 04:41 AM
Also: mind afire is a broken feat that is neither in circulation nor shall it ever be.
...Just sayin'.

Kobold-Bard
2011-01-23, 04:50 AM
Also: mind afire is a broken feat that is neither in circulation nor shall it ever be.
...Just sayin'.

Are you going to take that ability from all the monsters that have it then?

Megawizard
2011-01-23, 06:35 AM
I must say the guasi-god seems to be quite insane power-level wise for casters, almost on planar sheperd level.

So spend five divinity points, and you have a fullcaster prc with very easy pre-requisites, that grants several powerfull (if not outright broken) bonus abilities.

Just aura of divinity, for example, for +1/4 HD Caster/manifester level makes this even more powerfull than Archmage, a quite powerfull prc on it's own right and with much harsher entry requirements. For psionic characters, extra manifester level is simply godly.

Charisma-based spellcasters are even more happy geting Cha and powerfull abilities based on Cha.

And what do noncasters get instead of spellcasting? A couple more Bab? A little better saves? Some more skill points? I really can't see how that's remotely balanced. Every spellcaster will want and be able to take quasi-god (what do you have to lose?), but noncasters will gain only a fraction of it's power. A little better base numbers simply pale in comparison to full five levels of spellcasting.

I humbly sugest to simply remove the option to fully advance spellcasting. At best it should just have that "pseudo-spellcasting" ability (that's how you call it, right?) like the lich and the half-celestial/half-infernal have.



What if the deity doesn't want to tell them?

I assumed thay'd be using it on a Deity that will be friendly to them/sympathetic to their current aims. If the DM has decided that all the Gods are against the character so they can't get any info then that's their prerogative.

I'm really not very sure if abilities completely based on DM-fiat are a very good idea. Either the DM wanted you to know that info, and you could've got it trough easier means, or he doesn't want you to know that info and no god you contact will give you the answer.

Also your at-will scrying saves are kinda too high . 10+12/HD+Cha Mod won't give anyone a real chance of making it whitout a natural 20.

Kobold-Bard
2011-01-23, 06:55 AM
I must say the guasi-god seems to be quite insane power-level wise for casters, almost on planar sheperd level.

So spend five divinity points, and you have a fullcaster prc with very easy pre-requisites, that grants several powerfull (if not outright broken) bonus abilities.

Just aura of divinity, for example, for +1/4 HD Caster/manifester level makes this even more powerfull than Archmage, a quite powerfull prc on it's own right and with much harsher entry requirements. For psionic characters, extra manifester level is simply godly.

I've removed the Enhance Aura because you're right, that was too strong.


Charisma-based spellcasters are even more happy geting Cha and powerfull abilities based on Cha.

Gods as written get some abilities based on Cha. Cha would be (in my mind) a measure of your ability to influence reality, that's why I used it as the basis for most abilities).



And what do noncasters get instead of spellcasting? A couple more Bab? A little better saves? Some more skill points? I really can't see how that's remotely balanced. Every spellcaster will want and be able to take quasi-god (what do you have to lose?), but noncasters will gain only a fraction of it's power. A little better base numbers simply pale in comparison to full five levels of spellcasting.

I humbly sugest to simply remove the option to fully advance spellcasting. At best it should just have that "pseudo-spellcasting" ability (that's how you call it, right?) like the lich and the half-celestial/half-infernal have.

The Monstrous Feats I linked let Q-G's of other classes advance other class features through this class besides spell casting, so any class can advance at least their primary class feature(s).


I'm really not very sure if abilities completely based on DM-fiat are a very good idea. Either the DM wanted you to know that info, and you could've got it trough easier means, or he doesn't want you to know that info and no god you contact will give you the answer.

How is that different to anyone using Contact Other Plane any other time?


Also your at-will scrying saves are kinda too high . 10+12/HD+Cha Mod won't give anyone a real chance of making it whitout a natural 20.

That was supposed to be +1/2HD not +12/HD.

Megawizard
2011-01-23, 08:01 AM
The Monstrous Feats I linked let Q-G's of other classes advance other class features through this class besides spell casting, so any class can advance at least their primary class feature(s).

Except that for several caster classes, spellcasting isn't just a class feature, it's the class itself.

A barbarian doesn't have only rage. It has a d12 HD, full Bab, fast movement (or pounce/totem), uncanny dodge, and some other stuff.

A wizard has weak BAB, good Will save and 2 Skill points per level. And then spellcasting.

So a barbarian going into quasi-god gets a smaller HD and only improves rage, then needing to burn his remaining divinity points to replicate skill points, good Bab and Fort Save.

Meanwhile the wizard quasi-god keeps his spellcasting and good Will save, actually gets a better HD and new proficiencies. The only thing you lose from standard wizard is a bonus metamagic feat at worst!

Not to mention, spellcasting is the strongest class feature of all. It's easily worth much more than rage or sneak attack advancment. It's more than worth the 5 divinity points. It would be more than worth your full 7 divinity points.

Also, it seems like those feats seem to be on the "unfinished/uncritiqued" section of the third post. Maybe get them aproved by the council first before you start puting them on monster classes?



How is that different to anyone using Contact Other Plane any other time?

It has a base failure chance and ability burn risk.

Saidoro
2011-01-23, 10:52 AM
I'd suggest making several abilities, each one having a at will power and a 1/2HD power. It seems odd that all deities would be able to do this.

What makes you think this is an odd ability to have?

The ability to shoot lasers at things isn't very common among dieties, it's just one of many salient divine abilities and it isn't a particularly common godly trait in fiction(unless of course, it's in a world where everyone is doing that.) Healing is somewhat more common and well supported by clerics being the archetypical healers, but the heal-gun still strikes me as a bit odd.


Cure minor wounds is an orison

Ugh, if your DM is willing to let you sit there for hours on end (1/5 rounds, so 2 HP/minute) poking everyone back to full health then that's a problem with them not the spell. If it's really that much of an issue for people I'll add a clause barring CMW.

As things are, the party will regain 2 hp/min while traveling and will be fully healed every time they sleep (outsiders can just stay up all night, afterall). No, it isn't game breaking and yes, you could probably leave it in there and be perfectly fine, but generally infinite healing is seen as a bad thing, no matter how slow it is.


What if the deity doesn't want to tell them?

I assumed thay'd be using it on a Deity that will be friendly to them/sympathetic to their current aims. If the DM has decided that all the Gods are against the character so they can't get any info then that's their prerogative.

Maybe the god had some sort of personal involvement in the situation and doesn't want anyone to know. Maybe the god is trying to manipulate the PC to further their own goals. Maybe they're asking about the campaign's equivalent of the snarl. Maybe the PC was dumb enough to expect an honest answer from Cyric. Being the same alignment doesn't necessarily mean being close friends.

On a somewhat unrelated note: am I the only one who thinks this class needs an epic level expansion to grant a full divine rank?

Lix Lorn
2011-01-23, 11:14 AM
As things are, the party will regain 2 hp/min while traveling and will be fully healed every time they sleep (outsiders can just stay up all night, afterall). No, it isn't game breaking and yes, you could probably leave it in there and be perfectly fine, but generally infinite healing is seen as a bad thing, no matter how slow it is.
From what I generally hear, Infinite healing is too easy to get to be an issue.
Infinite IN COMBAT healing is an issue.

AugustNights
2011-01-23, 11:58 AM
With the normal complaints about time and internet connection being mostly outside I have a few more commentaries. Mostly do this stuff in offline mode, so apologies if stuff is outdated.

Lammasu
~Gatekeeper is cool, sort of like sanctuary for a doorway, thought I almost feel that it should be 1/day for HD hours rather than HD/day for 1 hour. But that’s just me.
~Divine Connection ends with “unless they take level sin the actual cleric class later,” which makes me want to play or build a blackguard of this race.
~ Healing Hands is pretty cool, does it apply to Cure minor wounds? In a pathfinder, or homebrew model with access to infinite L.0 spells that may be a useful weapon against undead or healing allies… then again infinite 1 hp is a handy tool for healing allies, so I guess really there isn’t too much of a disbalance here, except that cure light wounds would more or less be replaced by minor wounds…. Eh. Not a big deal at fifth level, and makes up for the lost caster levels… so in short, it’s pretty cool.
~ Over all it’s a pretty solid class, I haven’t any major complaints.


Golden Protector
I was under the assumption that a Golden Protector was just a Lammasu with the Half Golden Dragon template. But I see no reason to have the printed monster as a PrC to the lammasu.
~ Fire Subtype: You may specify that this offers fire immunity and cold vulnerability.
~Broken [/indent] code after claw and bite size increase.
~ How, if Lammasu 4 is a prerequisite for this class, can it not have access to flight?
~Resistance to Cold is very powerful, more powerful than the other choices because of its Fire subtype and vulnerability to that element. Just something to note.
~White light, perhaps “attack rolls, skill or ability checks, and saves” is a better way of wording d20 rolls. I’ve seen DM’s house rule d20 damage rolls, and other silly things involving a d20.
~Maneuverability is misspelled in Dragon’s wings.
~ Superior Protection: “It is also always on the lookout for damage and can no longer flanked.” I think you mean “can no longerbe flanked.” Also, this may serve better if it allowed a rogue of 7 levels high to flank the golden protector, unless you feel that absolutely no flanking ever works for this.
~ Supreme Protector looks pretty cool, I like both its Holy fire aspect and its dragon summoning power, but I don’t know about being able to smite on a full attack, charge, or pounce. (As that a pounce is both a charge and a full attack RAW I believe that would be a valid use of this ability, you may wish to specify if you do not wish pounce to be a viable use.)
All in all, it looks more or less solid, again no major complaints.

Storm Giant
~Tempestuous is pretty cool, I dig it.
~Assail seems a bit off, as that it allows for the additional damage of a ranged weapon to be governed by the weapon’s damage die, but the additional damage of a melee weapon to be governed by a specifically increased set number. With the exotic weapon proficiency for a greatbow, it’s ranged damage is quite terrifyingly high compared to even that of a fullblade.
But I do like that its good at taking down hordes of mooks.
~ Zap is fun!
~ “The Storm Giant cannot add Surges to opponents who could not grant him experience.” I fail to understand the point of this line. Is this to prevent the level 20 Storm-giant from utterly tossing around goblin foes, or to prevent the level 5 storm giant from knocking the Tarrasque off its keester? It seems to me as if this is already protected by the Saving Throw mechanic.
~ Torrential Attack is good fun!
~ Thunderbolt is also fun.
~ Call the Thunder is cool, but its accessibility is quite high, even though it’s tricky to target, getting enemies to stand still isn’t too hard, and HDd8 damage every 1d4 (or less) rounds, is quite a bit.
~Thundercloud Throne is both flavorful and functional, though you might specify that only the Storm Giant who created the throne may treat it as solid, in case there is another storm giant involved, unless awesome throne fights are encouraged.
~Monsoon spirit: So… uh… it can never be grappled. I mean I know the ring exists, but this power is… uhm… very powerful.
~Unflinching is also an interesting ability, the recharge is for all smaller creatures, not each individually, yes?
~ Oh man, can Zap get any cooler than Thunderstroke?
~Thundersteps AoOs of doom ability seems very easily abusable.
~
if the victim's result on the Fortitude Save against the blindness and deafness does not exceed (5 x Surges of Lightning spent + ½ Storm Giant's HD + Storm Giant's Str Mod), the victim is killed outright, instead. This is an extraordinary ability and a massive damage effect. that seems like a bit much. Especially with the x5 multiplier on the charges… that gets high, quick. Horribly quick.
~Breath of Squals, while using it as a swift action is cool, I think it’d be pretty cool if it could be used as a standard attack action, as in part of a full attack action. Just a thought.
~Answer to my question about Thunderstroke: Thunderstorm, or yes. However Thunderstorm’s -5 to DC should probably read ‘cumulative -5 penalty’ as that penalties don’t normally stack.
~ While “Rolling Thunder/Forked Lightning” is awesome, it makes some of the above abilities even more broken, however I think the problem lies in the exploitation of certain aspects of those abilities, and not in this one.
~Eye of the storm is a nice little cherry on the top, especially considering the synergy it offers the other class features.
All in all it strikes me as stronger than the average monster-class, I hope there is a way to tame it back without losing the awesomeness factor. It is definitely a class I’d want my GMs to let me be able to play. Definitely has a royal “King of Giants” feel.

Hyudra
2011-01-23, 01:19 PM
~Assail seems a bit off, as that it allows for the additional damage of a ranged weapon to be governed by the weapon’s damage die, but the additional damage of a melee weapon to be governed by a specifically increased set number. With the exotic weapon proficiency for a greatbow, it’s ranged damage is quite terrifyingly high compared to even that of a fullblade.

Ok, that's fair.


~ “The Storm Giant cannot add Surges to opponents who could not grant him experience.” I fail to understand the point of this line. Is this to prevent the level 20 Storm-giant from utterly tossing around goblin foes, or to prevent the level 5 storm giant from knocking the Tarrasque off its keester? It seems to me as if this is already protected by the Saving Throw mechanic.

It's a pre-emptive measure to prevent shenanigans like the storm giant from flinging bags of rats long distances, then blasting them for easy Thunder Steps.


~ Call the Thunder is cool, but its accessibility is quite high, even though it’s tricky to target, getting enemies to stand still isn’t too hard, and HDd8 damage every 1d4 (or less) rounds, is quite a bit.

I could lower it to HDd6, sure.


~Thundercloud Throne is both flavorful and functional, though you might specify that only the Storm Giant who created the throne may treat it as solid, in case there is another storm giant involved, unless awesome throne fights are encouraged.

Well, the entry does say "The Thundercloud Throne is such that only the Storm Giant treats it as solid" as opposed to "The Thundercloud Throne is such that only Storm Giants treat it as solid". This implies, though doesn't explicitly state, that it works for the Storm Giant that created it.


~Monsoon spirit: So… uh… it can never be grappled. I mean I know the ring exists, but this power is… uhm… very powerful.

This is true, but it's a part of the core monster, and I doubt many foes will be going out of their way to grapple the storm giant anyways.


~Unflinching is also an interesting ability, the recharge is for all smaller creatures, not each individually, yes?

I'll see about specifying. It blocks one attack from any creature, not all individual creatures.


~Thundersteps AoOs of doom ability seems very easily abusable.

But remember, you need to set it up. I generally see most battles ending fairly early, with a save or lose or a save or suck deciding things. A battle that's prolonged enough to set up a Thunder Step Flurry may well be decided already. If it's not, it makes for a potentially epic finish.


~ that seems like a bit much. Especially with the x5 multiplier on the charges… that gets high, quick. Horribly quick.

See response above this one. Also, I figure 2 lightning damage effects from the storm giant would equal the typical DC10 + 1/2 HD + Mod save. That, generally speaking, requires 2 rounds to set up and one to trigger. If you want a higher-than-base-DC, then you're facing ~4 rounds of actions to set it into motion. You can reduce this with Thunderstorm & iterative lightning attacks, but enemies can make saves to negate those iterative attacks, and in the end, your finishing blow may not connect.

And with a Storm Giant as a PC, the rest of the group may well have polished off whatever enemy you're fighting by the time you've set up and delivered your combo.

Rolling Thunder/Forked Lightning, yes, does give you a few extra surges, but by that point you're level 13, and you're on the brink of the point in the metagame where some monsters have enough HP that doing raw HP damage is becoming less feasible. Ultimately, the "I just turned you into carbonized ash" deathblow just keeps you in the game.


~Breath of Squalls, while using it as a swift action is cool, I think it’d be pretty cool if it could be used as a standard attack action, as in part of a full attack action. Just a thought.

Hrm. Might be better suited for the Air Elemental, that.


~Answer to my question about Thunderstroke: Thunderstorm, or yes. However Thunderstorm’s -5 to DC should probably read ‘cumulative -5 penalty’ as that penalties don’t normally stack.

Good call.


~ While “Rolling Thunder/Forked Lightning” is awesome, it makes some of the above abilities even more broken, however I think the problem lies in the exploitation of certain aspects of those abilities, and not in this one.

Ok. So I'm open to more feedback on this point. As I see it, you're having to build up sufficient charges to get any real oomph out of, say, Lightning Palm. That requires time/actions, and time/actions are a resource that I see as balancing the strength of the ability.

Worst case scenario, you've got a storm giant using Flurry of Blows or a ToB maneuver to get a lot of attacks in. This scenario, to me, is more or less okay, as you're sacrificing a fair bit in the way of maneuvers (or... haha... monk progression) for a sufficient progression in Storm Giant abilities. You're also having to go a little MAD statwise. Topping it off, you've got low BAB, so your iterative attacks aren't all that, either.

The Storm Giant is a hybrid, and as classes like the Duskblade (or, for the initial, less successful incarnation, the Hexblade) demonstrate - and as GorgonDantess mentioned earlier - you can't be mediocre at two things. That makes for a mediocre class. In the end, I don't think he's mediocre, and I don't feel he's overpowered, but I've worked on him on & off for a while now, so I can't be subjective.

Thanks for the feedback. much appreciated.

Changelog, Jan 23rd:
Assail changed from "Melee does damage to adjacent equal to your slam damage (sans strength) and Ranged deals damage equal to the base weapon damage" to just using the slam.
Call the Thunder damage changed from 1d8/HD to 1d6/HD.
Unflinching wording clarified.
Stressed that the penalty for iterative thunderstrokes under Thunderstorm is cumulative.

Lord_Gareth
2011-01-23, 02:30 PM
Lord_Gareth officially requests that someone redo the Erinyes and/or Succubus classes.

Thanks muchly!

TheGeckoKing
2011-01-23, 03:12 PM
Im going to nag a bit and poke people to go have a loot at the Swarmshifter to see if i'm doing it right. Vivisector will be posted shortly, If I can.

Gecko's Question of The Day: Did anyone call dibs on the Dracolich? I swear someone said they were going to make it, but nothing's transpired. It seems like a fun Prc to do.

Hyudra
2011-01-23, 03:23 PM
Ah, in the last thread, I do think whoever did the lich & demilich expressed interest in the dracolich. Dunno if I added it to the called list - it was a bit ago.

TheGeckoKing
2011-01-23, 03:27 PM
Vivisector
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM5_Gallery/106351.jpg
Monster Manual V

Hit Die: d8

{table=head] Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will |
Special
1st|
+0|
+0|
+2|
+0|Vivisector Body, Vivisection, +1 Str
2nd|
+1|
+0|
+3|
+0|Dissection, Scalpel Claws, Tough Shell, +1 Dex
3rd|
+2|
+1|
+3|
+1|Choice Cuts, Hidden Shell, +1 Str
4th|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+1|Flight, Poison Claws, +1 Dex[/table]
Skill Points: (4 + Int modifier) per level, x4 at first level
Class Skills: The Vivisector’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Move Silently (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Tumble (Dex).

Proficiencies: The Vivisector gains proficiency with its natural attacks.

Ability Increases: The Vivisector gains +1 Str and 1st and 3rd levels, and +1 Dex at 2nd and 4th levels, for a total of +2 Str and +2 Dex at 4th level.

Vivisector Body: At first level, the Vivisector loses all previous racial bonuses and traits, and gains Aberration traits (basically 60' Darkvision). The Vivisector is a Medium Sized Aberration with a base land speed of 30ft. A Vivisector does not need to eat, drink, sleep or breathe (but see Vivisection), but must rest for 8 hours to regain spells/power points/etc.
The Vivisector has two Claws as primary natural attacks that deal slashing damage equal to 1d6 + Str modifier. These claws are not capable of fine manipulation, including the ability to wield weapons. At 3rd level, this increases to 1d8 damage + Str Mod each. A Vivisector can wear nearly all magic items and accessories normally, with the exception of gloves, gauntlets, or anything else worn on the hands. The Vivisector may ingest up to two rings, gaining the benefits of the rings as if they were worn. Ingesting or regurgitating one or both rings is a full-round action.
Finally, Vivisectors have no hearing organs of any sort. They automatically fail all Listen checks, but are immune to any effect that requires the target to hear it. However, they can accurately sense and decipher the vibrations of their vocal cords, and so do not take any penalty for using verbal components. They can also talk as normal beings, and can lip read anyone they can see. Thus, if a Vivisector knows a language (Automatic/Bonus/Bought Languages) and can see the creature's face as the creature talks, they can converse with the creature. If the creature's face is not within their line of sight and visible to the Vivisector, the Vivisector cannot understand that person.
A Vivisector's automatic language is Common. They gain bonus languages if they have a sufficiently high Int score, as normal (Any, bar non-secret languages).

Vivisection (Ex): At 1st level, as a full-round action, a Vivisector can hack into the chest of a helpless creature of Medium size or larger, attempting to harvest choice organs for its personal use, such as experiments, feeding, or just being cruel. Treat this as successfully damaging the target with a single claw attack that does double the normal damage, and also heals the Vivisector of the same amount of damage. Any creature immune to critical hits only takes the normal claw damage. Also, if the target is killed via Vivisection, its corpse is rendered unsuitable for spells such as Raise Dead that require an intact body.

The Vivisector needs its fill of organs, much like a normal creature needs its fill of food. Thus, the Vivisector must use its vivisection ability at least once every two weeks or suffer the effects of starvation. Treat using this ability as gaining it's fill of food with regards to ending the effect.

Dissection (Ex): At 2nd level, by examining their enemies' biological weaknesses, the Vivisector can see how to dismantle their fleshy forms with ease. If a Vivisector spends 1 round studying their target, and then attacks that target with their claws, the target is flat-footed against their attack. Studying a target is a swift action. While studying the victim, the Vivisector can perform other actions so long as his attention stays focused on the target and the target does not detect the Vivisector or recognize the Vivisector as an enemy. Once the Vivisector has completed their round(s) of study, they must make the Dissection attack within the next 3 rounds.

At 4th level, the Vivisector may choose to extend their observation of their target to 2 rounds. If they do, and either of the Dissection claw attacks hits and deals damage, they strike their target in the vitals, dealing 2 points of Con damage and making them Flat-Footed for 1 round. At 8HD, this ability improves, dealing Con drain instead of damage.

At 8HD, the Vivisector may choose to extend their study of their target to 3 rounds. If they do, and either of the Dissection claw attacks hits and deals damage, the target must make a Fort save (DC 10 + 1/2 the Vivisector's HD + their Str modifier) or be paralyzed for a number of rounds equal to the Vivisector's Str modifier. (This effect does not stack with the previous one; the Vivisector may choose to deal Con damage/drain and make their target flat-footed, OR attempt to paralyze them, not both.)

At 15HD, if the Vivisector successfully paralyzes their target/deals Con Drain with this ability, the target must make another Fort save (DC 10 + 1/2 the Vivisector's HD + their Str Mod) or die on the spot as they have a vital organ of some sort torn out in a messy way.

If the Vivisector would gain the Death Attack ability from another source (such as the Assassin prestige class), they may use the same action to study a target for Death Attack and Dissection, and apply both abilities' effects to the same attack.

Scalpel Claws (Ex): At 2nd level, a Vivisector’s deadly claws become incredibly sharp, allowing it to surgically dismantle foes. Its claw attacks threaten a critical hit on a roll of 19–20, dealing triple damage on a successful critical hit.

Tough Shell (Ex): At 2nd level, the Vivisector gains a Natural Armor bonus to their Armor Class equal to its HD+2, and a Deflection Bonus to its Armor Class equal to its HD/4.

Choice Cuts (Su): At 3rd level, when a Vivisector successfully uses its Vivisection or Dissection ability on a creature and kills them with it, they may scoop up the organs extracted, eat them, and pick a bonus from the following list, as a free action. A Vivisector can also use Choice Cuts on a creature that died by other causes, but only if the creature has been dead for no longer than 1 minute. These bonuses last for a number of rounds equal to the Vivisector's HD, and the Vivisector may only have one such bonus at a time; if she would acquire a second, it replaces the first.

If the Vivisector wishes, they may internally pickle a number of organs equal to twice the Vivisector's Con modifier instead of eating them, preserving them for up to a number of days equal to their Con modifier. While preserved in this fashion, the organs are inactive and grant no bonuses. The Vivisector may activate a pickled organ as a swift action, at which time it grants its bonus (replacing any currently active bonus, as normal) for a number of rounds equal to the Vivisector's HD.

At 15HD, the Vivisector can have up to two bonuses active at one time. Activating a 3rd organ automatically replaces one of the previous two organs (Vivisector's choice).

The creature/corpse targeted by Choice Cuts can only grant bonuses corresponding to organs it actually possesses. See the list to determine what organs can be harvested from the creature the Vivisector is harvesting from.

Choice Cuts Organ & Bonus List:Any corporeal, non-undead, non-construct, non-ooze, non-elemental creature: Heart: They gain Fast Healing equal to 1 per four HD (minimum 1). Liver: They gain immunity to all poisons. Lungs: They are treated as having the Run and Endurance feats. Spinal Cord: They gain mage hand as a Spell-Like Ability, useable once per round with a Caster Level equal to their HD. Muscle: They gain a circumstance bonus to Str checks and Str-based skill checks equal to +1 per four HD (minimum +1). Skin: They gain DR/piercing equal to half their HD. Bone: They gain DR/bludgeoning equal to half their HD. Blood: As a standard action, they can vomit up the blood at their enemies. Treat this as a ranged touch attack that targets everything in a 40ft line and deals acid damage equal to 1d6 per two HD on a successful hit. Brains: They gain an insight bonus to Reflex saves, Int checks, and Int-based skill checks equal to 1 per four HD. Feet: Their Land Speed increases by 20ft. Appendix: They gain a Flaw, chosen by the DM (But no bonus feat). Digestive Organs: The next bonus activated while this one is in effect lasts for twice as long as normal. Eyes: They gain a circumstance bonus to Spot Checks equal to their HD. Hands: They gain fine manipulation, allowing them to handle and use objects as a creature with hands would. Teeth: They gain a secondary Bite natural attack, dealing 1d8 + Str modifier piercing, slashing, and Bludgeoning damage. This bite attack also benefits from the Poison Claws ability (if the Vivisector has it) as if it were a claw attack.Any Corporeal Undead: Bone: They gain DR/bludgeoning equal to half their HD.Any Ooze: Slime: They gain DR/slashing equal to half their HD.Any Construct: Construct Essence: They gain Spell Resistance equal to 11 + their HD.
Hidden Shell (Sp): At 3rd level, a Vivisector may use invisibility 1/day per two HD as a Spell-Like Ability. At 8HD this improves to greater invisibility, though the Vivisector may still use invisibility instead if it wishes.

Flight (Ex): At 4th level, a Vivisector gains a Fly speed equal to their land speed, with Average maneuverability. The Vivisector also gains Hover as a bonus feat.

Poison Claws (Ex): At 4th level, any target struck by the Vivisector's claws is subject to the poison oozing out of them. The poison has a Fortitude save DC equal to 10 + 1/2 the Vivisector's HD + their Con modifier, and deals 1d4 Initial and Secondary Dex damage per four of the Vivisector's HD.

Comments:
SCYTHER! SCYTHER! The Vivisector is a nasty aberration that gets it's fill eating organs, and then using them to fuel it's killing power, so it can just kill creatures on and on and on. It's primarily an assassin, with a bit of scout in it once it can fly, and a little list of fun effects to use when it guts the latest kill. Enjoy!
Changelog:
19/02/11 - Swapped Prestidigitation for Mage Hand in the ability granted by eating Spinal Cord, and elaborated on some fuzzy rulings.
20/02/11 - More wording issues fixed
24/02/11 - More wording and typos, basically. Also allowed Choice Cuts to be used on corpses, and made the poison scale.
26/02/11 - More skill points, so the Vivisector can be a better hunter. Invisibility moved to 3rd level, because that's when a Wizzy gets it and it gives the Vivisector more to do at that level. Also, lowered BaB and removed Dex bonus in return for adding the Dissection ability.
28/02/11 - More grammatical/typing errors fixed, and the list has been neatened.
7/03/11 - Fixed up the wording in a few places (But awaiting Psyborg's generous help), Vivisection has been simplified, Dissection is a swift action to study now, Capped the organs (Cap is intentionally high, mind you), Blood organ has been better defined, and the poison was toned down. Lastly, the ability increases have returned! Yay!
3/8/11 - Proofread and corrected by Psyborg. In addition to minor typos, the following non-trivial alterations were made, in accordance with general project guidelines and the perceived intent of the creator: Scythe Hands rolled into Vivisector Body. Dissection was almost completely rewritten for clarity. It remains functionally unaltered. Choice Cuts had several sentences re-ordered to read more smoothly. It remains functionally unaltered. Vivisection, Scalpel Claws, Flight, and Poison Claws were tagged as (Ex). Dissection and Choice Cuts were tagged as (Su). Hidden Shell was tagged as (Sp). Choice Cuts: Blood did not specify a damage type; it was marked with several large, bold question marks as I have no idea what the author's intent was for this. Choice Cuts: Muscle, Choice Cuts: Eyes: Untyped bonuses were made circumstance bonuses. Choice Cuts (many): All "1 per four HD" abilities were noted as "(minimum 1)", since you gain Choice Cuts at 3rd level and a couple of the bonuses already had it. Hidden Shell, Flight, Poison Claws: All more or less heavily rewritten for clarity but functionally unaltered. Four points that are the author's business, not mine, plus one suggestion:
I: It concerns me that the Vivisector gains neither Natural Armor nor any armor proficiencies. Fixed.
II:Vivisectors are utterly and completely deaf. How do they communicate with the party? Lip-read? Learn party members' body language like party members learn to read that of some of the non-speaking monster classes? Make the whole party learn Drow Silent sign language? Fixed
III: Can Vivisectors even speak? Are they subject to the normal spell failure chance for spells with verbal components when unable to hear? I guess that can speak, and no penalty - Will make clear in the text.
IV: Vivisector Body needs to specify automatic languages, " with additional languages for a high Int score as normal." Done.
V: It might not hurt to allow Choice Cuts to have two bonuses active at a time at, say, 15-18 HD. You'd need to specify whether activating a third bonus ended the oldest one, or one of your choice. Why not. <end Psyborg's stuff>
09/03/11 - Many, many thanks to Psyborg for his corrections. The Vivisector's speech/languages has been sorted out. As long as they can see the person they want to talk to, they can just lipread. I gave it proficiency with light armor because I can't see the harm, Dissection is (Ex) because ripping open someone's jugular with skill isn't really supernatural, and Choice Cuts can have two bonuses as 15th HD.
16/03/11 - Removed proficiency and gave the Vivisector some bonus AC instead.
23/03/11 - Claw damage scales, DR that can be granted by Choice Cuts has been boosted, and the poison does Dex Damage instead of Str Damage. Also, Dissection kills you outright at 15HD if you bork the save. Other than that, one or two little typing errors have been fixed.

Saidoro
2011-01-23, 05:43 PM
Vivisector

Hit Dice: d8

{table=head]Level|BaB|Fort|Ref|Will|Class Features

1st|
+1|
+0|
+2|
+0|Carapace Body, Vivisection

2nd|
+2|
+0|
+3|
+0|Scalpel Claws, +1 DEX

3rd|
+3|
+1|
+3|
+0|Choice Cuts, +1 DEX

4th|
+4|
+1|
+4|
+0|Flight, Poison Claws, Hidden Shell[/table]


Skills Points at 1st Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier) x 4
Skills Points at Each Level: (2xIntelligence Modifier)
Class Skills: The Vivisector’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Autohypnosis (Wis), Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Disable Device (Int), Heal (Wis), Iaijutsu Focus (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (All skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Tumble (Dex).

Proficiencies: The Vivisector gains proficiency with it's natural attacks.

Carapace Body: The Vivisector loses all previous racial bonuses and traits, and gains the Aberration type (Basically 60ft Darkvision). The Vivisector is a Medium Sized Aberration with a base land speed of 30ft. A Vivisector does not need to eat, drink, sleep or breath, but must rest for 8 hours to regain spells/pp/etc. The Vivisector has two Primary Claw attacks that deal 1d8 slashing damage each, but as the claws are pretty much the entire hand, a Vivisector has no fine manipulation. Also, a Vivisector can wear items as normal, but cannot wear gloves, gauntlets, or anything else worn on the hand slot. However, up to two rings can be ingested by the Vivisector, and the Vivisector gains the benefits of the rings. To ingest/regurgitate the rings requires a full-round action. Also, Vivisectors are utterly Deaf. This means they fail all Listen checks, but are immune to any effect that requires the target to hear it.

Vivisection: At 1st level, as a full-round action, rather than performing a coup de grace, a Vivisector can hack into the chest of a helpless creature of medium size or more, attempting to harvest choice organs for its personal use. Treat this as an automatic critical hit with a single claw attack that also heals the vivisector of the same amount of damage. At 4HD, if the target is killed via Vivisection, its corpse is rendered unsuitable for spells such as Raise Dead that require an intact body. Does this still provoke the fort save vs. death as normal? And if not can they still use a normal coup de grace if they want to?

Scalpel Claws: At 2nd level, a vivisector’s deadly claws are incredibly sharp, allowing it to surgically dismantle foes. It's claw attacks threaten a critical hit on a roll of 19–20, dealing triple damage on a successful critical hit.

Score Boost: A Vivisector gains +1 DEX at 2nd and 3rd level.

Choice Cuts: At 3rd level, when a Vivisector successfully Vivisections vivisects a creature, they may pick a bonus from the following list. If the Vivisectioned vivisected creature has not got an organ(s) on the list, you cannot choose it. You may only pick Bones off this list when vivisectioning an Undead creature So, is this bones can only be be picked when vivisecting an undead or is it bones are the only thing that can be selected when vivisecting the undead? and if it's the latter, what about fleshy undead?, and Slime is specific to Oozes (And the only thing you can take from an Ooze). These bonuses last for a number of rounds equal to your HD, and you may only have one bonus at a time (A new bonus removes the old one).

Organ List:
Heart: You gain Fast Healing equal to the Vivisectioned vivisected creature's HD/4 (Minimum 1).
Liver: They gain immunity to all poisons.
Lungs: They are treated as having the Run and Endurance feats for the duration of the bonus.
Spinal Cord: They gain Telekinisis as an SLA, useable once per round (CL=HD). This is a fifth level spell. third level is way too early.
Muscle: They gain a bonus to all STR based rolls equal to the Vivisectioned vivisected creature's HD/4 Attack and damage rolls too?(Minimum 1).
Bone: They gain DR 2/Bludgeoning The damage reduction ones are fairly irrelevant, they can be kind of useful at level 3 but lose power every level afterwards, consider making them scale.
Slime: They gain DR 2/Slashing
Skin: They gain DR 2/Piercing

Flight: At 4th level, a Vivisector gains a Flight Speed equal to their Land Speed, with Average Manuverability. I realize that this is probably based off of the monster, but that picture really looks like it should be able to hover.

Hidden Shell: A 4th level, a Vivisector gains Invisibility as an SLA useable 1/2HD times per day. At 8HD this becomes Greater Invisibility instead. Invisibility has a longer duration than greater invisibility, they should still be able to cast it if they want to.

Poison Claws: At 4th level, if a Vivisector successfully strikes an opponent with their claws, they must make a Reflex Save (DC 10+Con Mod+HD/2) or be affected by the poison oozing out of their claws (1d6 STR/1d6 STR). Poison uses fortitude saves.

Swarmshifter looks pretty good, my only complaint is that they should take more than just 1d10 damage for having their swarm die.

Hyudra
2011-01-23, 06:17 PM
Vivisector

Class Skills: The Vivisector’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Autohypnosis (Wis), Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Disable Device (Int), Heal (Wis), Iaijutsu Focus (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (All skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Tumble (Dex).

Autohypnosis? Iajitsu Focus? What?


Proficiencies: The Vivisector gains proficiency with it's natural attacks.

Its. It's = It is or It has:

The Vivisector gains proficiency with it is natural attacks.
The Vivisector gains proficiency with it has natural attacks.
No go.


Carapace Body: The Vivisector loses all previous racial bonuses and traits, and gains the Aberration type (Basically 60ft Darkvision). The Vivisector is a Medium Sized Aberration with a base land speed of 30ft. A Vivisector does not need to eat, drink, sleep or breath,

Make the 'body' entry creature specific. Rename to Vivisector Body for less confusion when gestalting and whatnot. That last word should be breathe.


...but must rest for 8 hours to regain spells/pp/etc. The Vivisector has two Primary Claw attacks that deal 1d8 slashing damage each, but as the claws are pretty much the entire hand, a Vivisector has no fine manipulation.

Underlined bit can stand to be reworded.


Also, Vivisectors are utterly Deaf. This means they fail all Listen checks, but are immune to any effect that requires the target to hear it.

Be careful about capitalizing the word deaf. It's not only incorrect, but there's toes one could step on, politically.


Vivisection: At 1st level, as a full-round action, rather than performing a coup de grace, a Vivisector can hack into the chest of a helpless creature of medium size or more, attempting to harvest choice organs for its personal use. Treat this as an automatic critical hit with a single claw attack that also heals the vivisector of the same amount of damage. At 4HD, if the target is killed via Vivisection, its corpse is rendered unsuitable for spells such as Raise Dead that require an intact body.

Try to capitalize Vivisector throughout, if you're capitalizing it at all. The 4HD benefit bugs me, but it's hard to say why. I think in part, because it's kind of a niche effect that doesn't really change anything enough to warrant being a later upgrade (in which case it would just be inherent to the ability from 1st level onward).

Also, what Saidoro said. Clarify.


Scalpel Claws: At 2nd level, a vivisector’s deadly claws are incredibly sharp, allowing it to surgically dismantle foes. It's claw attacks threaten a critical hit on a roll of 19–20, dealing triple damage on a successful critical hit.

Its.


Score Boost: A Vivisector gains +1 DEX at 2nd and 3rd level.

Rename & reformat this bit to keep with the trends being used by other monster submissions. Also, don't capitalize the attribute scores (Dexterity or Dex, not DEX), as it's visually distracting and looks worse.


Choice Cuts: At 3rd level, when a Vivisector successfully Vivisections a creature,

I'd reword to "when a Vivisector successfully uses its Vivisection ability on a creature," to keep things absolutely clear. (Else some players might argue a standard or special attack is a Vivisection).


they may pick a bonus from the following list. If the vivisectioned

Again, capitalize consistently. Vivisectioned is capitalized in the quote above this one, but not here.


Organ List:
[SPOILER]Heart: You gain Fast Healing equal to the Vivisectioned creature's HD/4 (Minimum 1).
Liver: They gain immunity to all poisons.

You shift from 'You' to 'They'. See underlined.


Spinal Cord: They gain Telekinisis as an SLA, useable once per round (CL=HD).

Telekinesis is spelled wrong. Usable is spelled wrong. (CL=HD) should be written out in full. "The caster level is equal to..."


Muscle: They gain a bonus to all STR based rolls equal to the Vivisectioned creature's HD/4 (Minimum 1).

Don't tie abilities to target's HD. HD scales exponentially at higher levels. At low levels, for example, CR is more or less = to HD, but the Cloud Giant, for example, has 11CR and 17 HD. Things continue along these lines. This leads to problems when you're level 20 and fighting enemies with 48 or more HD.


Bone: They gain DR 2/Bludgeoning
Slime: They gain DR 2/Slashing
Skin: They gain DR 2/Piercing

These need to scale. The benefit sucks.


Flight: At 4th level, a Vivisector gains a Flight Speed equal to their Land Speed, with Average Manuverability.

Spelling error: Maneuverability.


Hidden Shell: A 4th level, a Vivisector gains Invisibility as an SLA useable 1/2HD times per day. At 8HD this becomes Greater Invisibility instead.

This is a heck of a lot of invisibility. Usable is spelled wrong.


Poison Claws: At 4th level, if a Vivisector successfully strikes an opponent with their claws, they must make a Reflex Save (DC 10+Con Mod+HD/2) or be affected by the poison oozing out of their claws (1d6 STR/1d6 STR).

Write out the poison damage properly. Laziness is bad. Write out the DC using the standard layout (DC 10 + ½ Vivisector's HD + Vivisector's Con mod). Should be a fort save.

Makes me think of the Pokémon Scyther

mootoall
2011-01-23, 06:22 PM
"Vivisectioned" is incorrect. It should be "Vivisected."

Hyudra
2011-01-23, 06:47 PM
Oh, one thing that struck me as I read the monster entry, but that I forgot to add to the end...

The creature has a big flaw. Several of its primary abilities are based off of finishing enemies, but this runs contrary to what a PC is going to need. If enemies are dead, the encounter may well be finished, and the (less than fantastic) buff you collect isn't going to be worth the time spent. Unless encounters are back to back, the Vivisect and Choice Cuts abilities just don't really come into play.

Consider letting the Vivisector keep hold of a small number of organs, then activate them within a time frame of X hours.

Saidoro
2011-01-23, 09:28 PM
Calling Razor Boar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/razorBoar.htm).

Hyudra
2011-01-23, 10:18 PM
How is it that I've never seen that creature before?

It looks tricky. Very much a one schtick pony, but a 10 level class.

Saidoro
2011-01-23, 11:05 PM
I have plans. Trample, bullrush, toughness, and some critical hit crazyness on the tusks to tide them over until they get trample as a capstone. It should be up sometime tomorrow.
And it's a piggy, not a pony. :smallwink:

Hyudra
2011-01-23, 11:52 PM
Trample isn't a lot to build around, as it is kinda limited for a creature that's only large size at level 10. I'd even consider taking the general idea of trample and reworking it to suit the boar.

Just speaking for myself, I'd build it as a rough and tumble brawler with a critical attack schtick. Stuff along the lines of what the Manticore got, but even more specialized. Then extend into the 'boar' nature with stuff that builds on diehard. It's important to get away from the base abilities (scent, trample, fast healing) and throw in stuff that makes it interesting and unique to play, like the line "Razor boars have been known to recover from seemingly mortal wounds, track down their attackers, and exact revenge." What abilities can one come up with that build on the idea of revenge?

Maybe abilities like (getting carried away, and borrowing from non-D&D sources here, but...):

Violent Goring - Starting at third level, your attacks deal bonus damage based on how low your health is. This bonus damage increases dramatically in the event of a critical hit.

Razor's Edge - Once per day per X HD, you can stop your health from dropping below 1 for a single round.

Obstinate Attacker - You may follow an opponent with a 5' step as they make a 5' step.

Unrelenting - Your HP must drop to a negative number exceeding your constitution score before you die. (ie. at 20 con, you die at -21 hp.)

Scarred Hide - Each time you are reduced to 0hp or below in mortal combat (not staged combat), you permanently gain 1 hp. This number cannot exceed double your HD. At X HD, the cap increases to ______.
I mean, seriously, you can youtube "Wild boar attack" and see videos of wild boars taking on lions three times their size and winning. Those guys are tenacious little bastards.

TheGeckoKing
2011-01-24, 02:47 PM
Right, I've fixed up the Vivisector, and it can pickle the guts it harvests for a few days now. And yes, the Vivisector is like an Eldritch, Organ Eating, Zombie Looking Scyther
Also, i'm going to try to explain a few things so I don't look crazy (Ahahahaha....). The deafness was just...there. I don't know why, but the guys at WoTC wanted the Vivisector deaf. Yeah. The "All bony creatures give you bones, but all undead ONLY give you bones" because I didn't want to debate on the different types of undead and if the organs were intact or usable and whatever. As far as i'm concerned, whatever's animating the undead has corrupted all the leftover organs bar the bones. And finally........Do you think it's got too much Invisibility? I kinda like the thought of a Ninja Eldritch Scyther (Swordsage Vivisector :smalleek:)

NOTE: If you lose your black glasses in the near-dark, ASK SOMEONE ELSE TO FIND THEM. If you don't, you get stuck in the horrible loop of being unable to find them, so you can't see well, and you can't find them again, so you can't type worth a gecko, so your mild OCD goes on a bender....so.......blech.

Saidoro
2011-01-24, 05:56 PM
Razor Boar
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images//mm2_gallery/88268_620_106.jpg

Hit Dice: d10


Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Class Features


1st

+0

+2

+0

+0
Razor Boar Body, Mighty Force, +1 Str, +1 Con


2nd

+1

+3

+0

+0
Trample, Scent, Surge of Force, +1 Str, +1 Con


3rd

+2

+3

+1

+1
Resilience, Hard to Kill, +1 Str, +1 Con


4th

+3

+4

+1

+1
Sharp Tusks, Barrel Through, +1 Str, +1 Con


5th

+3

+4

+1

+1
Growth, Wrench, +1 Str, +1 Con


6th

+4

+5

+2

+2
Unstoppable, Ignore Spells, +1 Str, +1 Con


7th

+5

+5

+2

+2
Tusk Rush, +1 Str, +1 Con


8th

+6

+6

+2

+2
Razor Tusks, Crazy Sharp, +1 Str, +1 Con


9th

+6

+6

+3

+3
Reflexive Gore, Greater Resilience, +1 Str, +1 Con


10th

+7

+7

+3

+3
Vorpal Tusks, Unstoppable Rampage, +1 Str, +1 Con


Skills Points at First Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier) x 4
Skills Points at Each Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier)
Class Skills: The razor boar’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Spot (Wis) and Survival (Wis)

Proficiencies: The razor boar gains proficiency with its natural weapons.

Razor Boar Class Features: The following are the Class Features of the razor boar.
Razor Boar Body: The razor boar loses all other racial traits and acquires magical beast traits, giving it darkvision 60 ft. Razor boars begin as medium creatures with a base land speed of 40 ft, a primary tusk slash attack that deals 1d6+1½*str modifier damage and 2 secondary hoof attacks that deal 1d3+½ str modifier damage. The tusk slash is treated as a two handed weapon for the purpose of bonus damage done by power attack and similar effects. Razor boars gain a natural armor bonus equal to their constitution modifier and a bonus to strength checks made as part of a bull rush equal to half their HD.

Razor boars lack the hands required for fine manipulation, and as such, cannot wield weapons or use doorknobs. Razor boars do not speak, but those who spend at least a week in the boar's company can learn to understand its body language and snorts and growls enough that the player can understand simple expressions such as 'danger', 'hate', 'gratitude' and so on.

Mighty Force: The razor boar is treated as being one size category larger for the purpose of determining who it can target with its bullrush, size modifiers on bullrush, disarm, grapple, overrun and trip checks, and for determining encumbrance.
At 12 HD the boar is treated as an additional size category larger.

Trample: Upon reaching second level the boar gains the ability to trample for 1d8+1½ str damage the save DC for this ability is 10+½HD+str modifier. Mighty Force also modifies the size of creatures the boar is able to trample.
As a full-round action, a creature with this special attack can move up to twice its speed and literally run over any opponents at least one size category smaller than itself. The creature merely has to move over the opponents in its path; any creature whose space is completely covered by the trampling creature’s space is subject to the trample attack. If a target’s space is larger than 5 feet, it is only considered trampled if the trampling creature moves over all the squares it occupies. If the trampling creature moves over only some of a target’s space, the target can make an attack of opportunity against the trampling creature at a -4 penalty. A trampling creature that accidentally ends its movement in an illegal space returns to the last legal position it occupied, or the closest legal position, if there’s a legal position that’s closer.

A trample attack deals bludgeoning damage (the creature’s slam damage + 1½ times its Str modifier). The creature’s descriptive text gives the exact amount.

Trampled opponents can attempt attacks of opportunity, but these take a -4 penalty. If they do not make attacks of opportunity, trampled opponents can attempt Reflex saves to take half damage.

The save DC against a creature’s trample attack is 10 + ½ creature’s HD + creature’s Str modifier (the exact DC is given in the creature’s descriptive text). A trampling creature can only deal trampling damage to each target once per round, no matter how many times its movement takes it over a target creature.

Scent: Starting at second level, razor boars may use Scent.(Detailed below.)
To assist in this hunting down of enemies, the razor boar acquires the Track feat.
A boar that scents a foe that has injured it in the last 24 hours gets +10' to its movement speed as long as it is pursuing that foe. It ignores terrain hindrances for the purposes of calculating overland movement while tracking that foe.This extraordinary ability lets a creature detect approaching enemies, sniff out hidden foes, and track by sense of smell.

A creature with the scent ability can detect opponents by sense of smell, generally within 30 feet. If the opponent is upwind, the range is 60 feet. If it is downwind, the range is 15 feet. Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above. Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at three times these ranges.

The creature detects another creature’s presence but not its specific location. Noting the direction of the scent is a move action. If it moves within 5 feet of the scent’s source, the creature can pinpoint that source.

A creature with the Track feat and the scent ability can follow tracks by smell, making a Wisdom check to find or follow a track. The typical DC for a fresh trail is 10. The DC increases or decreases depending on how strong the quarry’s odor is, the number of creatures, and the age of the trail. For each hour that the trail is cold, the DC increases by 2. The ability otherwise follows the rules for the Track feat. Creatures tracking by scent ignore the effects of surface conditions and poor visibility.

Creatures with the scent ability can identify familiar odors just as humans do familiar sights.

Water, particularly running water, ruins a trail for air-breathing creatures. Water-breathing creatures that have the scent ability, however, can use it in the water easily.

False, powerful odors can easily mask other scents. The presence of such an odor completely spoils the ability to properly detect or identify creatures, and the base Survival DC to track becomes 20 rather than 10.

Surge of Force: Beginning at second level the razor boar can unleash a surge of strength once per day per HD or per point of strength modifier. As a swift action the boar can gain a +4 morale bonus to their strength score until the beginning of its next turn. At 5 HD and every 5 HD thereafter this bonus increases by +2.

Resilience: At third level the razor boar gains damage reduction/- equal to half its HD and fast healing equal to its HD.

Hard to Kill: Beginning at third level the boar can attempt to absorb his enemies blows once per day per hd. As a swift action the boar can grant itself a number of temporary hitpoints equal to its hd that last until the beginning ot its next turn. Unlike normal temporary hitpoints, these hitpoints will stack with temporary hitpoints from other sources and are used before other temporary hitpoints.

Sharp Tusks: At fourth level the razor boar's tusks sharpen, its critical threat range with its tusk slash is increased by 1. Additionally, whenever the boar threatens a critical hit its critical multiplier increases by 1 for each point the unmodified attack roll was higher than the minimum roll needed to threaten a critical hit. Finally, the boar's tusks are treated as adamantine for the purposes of penetrating damage reduction and hardness.
At 11 HD the boar's critical threat range with its tusks increases by an additional 1 (before applying keen).

Barrel Through: Starting at fourth level the razor boar gains the ability to simply smash its way through any obstacles. The boar ignores difficult terrain and may choose to remove the difficult terrain trait from any squares they move through if the source of the difficult terrain could reasonably be removed or destroyed by the sudden application of brute force, such as heavy undergrowth or a series of low walls. Additionally, the boar is able to cut through anything between it and its targets. If using its tusks to attack a target with some form of cover relative to the boar it may chose to make a free attack against the source of the cover, if enough damage is dealt to destroy the source of cover the target does not gain its benefits against this attack. This can also be used to attack foes with total cover, but in this case if not enough damage is done to destroy the source of cover or reduce it to less than total cover the attack against the target has no effect.

Growth: At fifth level the razor boar grows to large size(long). Its reach, grapple modifiers, natural attack damage and skills change accordingly, but it doesn't gain any ability score bonuses or penalties. In addition to the normal changes the razor boar also gains +1 to its natural armor bonus and +10 ft to it base land speed.
At 15 HD the boar grows to Huge size.

Wrench: From fifth level the razor boar has the ability to tear away the weapons of its foes. Once per day per 2 HD, after being struck and damaged by a piercing or slashing weapon, the boar can move in such a way as to tear that weapon from their opponent's hands. Against manufactured weapons this is treated as a disarm attempt for which the boar is considered to be wielding a two-handed weapon. Weapons so disarmed remain stuck in the boar's hide until removed. Removing a weapon requires a successful touch attack against the boar followed by a disarm check as above if the boar is unwilling or a successful DC 5 heal check if the boar is willing.

Against natural weapons of creatures of the boar's size or smaller this forces the foe to make a reflex save DC 10 + ½ HD + str modifier. Those who fail the reflex save are treated as flat-footed until the beginning of their next turn, those who fail by 3 or more are knocked prone and considered flat-footed until they are no longer prone, those who fail by 7 or more have their weapon trapped in the boar's hide. A creature with a stuck natural weapon is pulled into the boar's square and can take no action beyond attempting to free itself, a full round action in which it makes a strength check opposed by the boar's constitution check. If the trapped creature rolls higher it pulls itself free and can move to any space adjacent to the boar, if the boar is successful the trapped creature takes bludgeoning and piercing damage equal to the boar's HD from the movement of its hide and sharp hairs. The boar takes no penalties from having the trapped creature in their space.
This ability has no effect on creatures larger than the razor boar.

Unstoppable: At sixth level the razor boar gains the ability to shrug off almost anything. Once per day per 5 HD the razor boar can supress all ongoing negative effects or conditions affecting it for a number of rounds equal to its HD or its constitution modifier, whichever is lower. Time spent suppressed does not count against an effect's duration. If a suppressed effect targets multiple characters this only suppresses its effects on the boar. This effect can even suppress death, though it must have been activated before the boar died to do so. Activating this ability is a purely mental free action.

Ignore Spells: At sixth level the boar gains spell resistance equal to 10+HD

Tusk Rush: Beginning at seventh level the razor boar can attack an opponent they can reach with their tusks as a standard action. If the attack hits the boar can attempt to bull rush that opponent as a free action with a +4 bonus to their strength check. Bull rushing in this way does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender, but still provokes attacks of opportunity from movement as normal.

Razor Tusks: At eigth level the boar's tusks grow ever sharper, gaining the keen weapon property. If it has the improved critical feat for its tusks or if they gain the keen property from some other source increase their critical threat range by one instead of their normal effects. These bonuses do not stack and are not multiplied by the keen property.

Crazy Sharp: From eight level the boar can score critical hits against creatures that would normally be immune to them, although its critical multiplier is halved when it does so. The critical multiplier should be rounded up and halved after the bonus from sharp tusks is applied, not before.

Reflexive Gore: At ninth level the razor boar's reflexes quicken, allowing it to gore its foes as it tramples them. When a foe fails their reflex save or misses their attack of opportunity against the trampling boar they provoke an attack of opportunity from the boar. A foe who intentionally fails their save does not provoke this attack.

Greater Resilience: At 9th level the razor boar gains Energy resistance to all energy types equal to its damage reduction.

Vorpal Tusks: At tenth level the boar's tusks sharpen to an impossible degree, gaining the vorpal property.
At 20 HD the vorpal ability activates on a natural 19 as well as a natural 20.

Unstoppable Rampage: At tenth level the boar's unstoppable ability improves. While Unstoppable is activated the boar gains a single extra swift action which can only be used to activate abilities from this class. In addition whenever the boar activates unstoppable they gain a pool of charges equal to half their Con modifier which can be used to activate Surge of Force, Hard to Kill, or Wrench without using a daily use. These charges dissipate when the unstoppable effect end. Finally, the boar gains a single extra use of unstoppable per day.

Comments
So, the razor boar, a big, incredibly tough brawler with pointy teeth.(and the ability to bullrush a tarrasque by 12 HD)
Points of concern
Should I up the racial bonus to bull rush?
Is Sharp Tusks broken?
Is Unstoppable to much?
Crazy Sharp: y/n?

Changelog
January 30
Minor Formatting changes.

January 31
Changed Vorpal Body to Razor Boar Body
Modified Scent
Modified Sharp Tusks
Reworded Growth
Capped Unstoppable Duration
Reworded Reflexive Gore
February 10
Added Surge of Force, Hard to Kill, Wrench, Barrel Through, and Unstoppable Rampage
Made sharp tusks make tusks adamantine
February 18
Added speech and fine manipulation to rb body
Surge of Force now has HD+4 uses/day
Numerous small spelling/grammar changes
February 26
Modified wording on language.
Changed surge of force uses per day to HD or str.
Upped damage of tusks.
Changed .5s to ½s.
Added the word 'modifier' to a bunch of places.
Changed second 'Additionally' in sharp tusks to 'Finally.'
Removed cannot be healed back to life clause from unstoppable.
Slight rewording to Razor Tusks, Crazy Sharp and reflexive gore.
March 7
Rearranged Mighty force, surge of force, hard to kill, and Wrench
Reworded scent.
Added combat maneuver bonuses to Mighty Force.
Added action type to unstoppable
March 20
Separated Resilience into 3 abilities, resilience, Ignore Spells, and Greater Resilience.
Added mounting to Wrench
March 30
Capitalized a dc in wrench.
Wrench can only be used against natural weapons your own size or smaller.

Mystic Muse
2011-01-26, 06:21 PM
Has anybody attempted the multiheaded template yet?

Saidoro
2011-01-26, 11:26 PM
It's not on any of the lists, so probably not.

KingOfLaughter
2011-01-27, 12:15 AM
Can I request epic level for the Tarrasque? Or a Tarrasque PrC?

Hehe yea. that powerful of a tarrasque.. Is being used.. In a game...
=D

Mystic Muse
2011-01-27, 12:18 AM
Can I request epic level for the Tarrasque? Or a Tarrasque PrC?

Hehe yea. that powerful of a tarrasque.. Is being used.. In a game...
=D

I hate to tell you this, but that's probably not going to be happening any time soon. There's not a lot of demand for that, and extra levels for a class hasn't happened as far as I can tell.

KingOfLaughter
2011-01-27, 12:21 AM
I hate to tell you this, but that's probably not going to be happening any time soon. There's not a lot of demand for that, and extra levels for a class hasn't happened as far as I can tell.

I didn't figure it would.. Any good PrCs for it?

Kobold-Bard
2011-01-27, 01:33 AM
I didn't figure it would.. Any good PrCs for it?

Monster of Legend seems fitting.

Have it lose a leg in battle and take 1/2-Golem? :smalltongue:

Mystic Muse
2011-01-27, 01:39 AM
Telepathy out to 10' per HD is kind of crippling. That means not being able to talk to other people in the same room as you. Well, that's how the original class communicated. She was capable of telepathy but incapable of speech.


All skills should not be class skills. That gives you access to iajitsu focus, hypnotism, craft dreamweave item, and so on... skills with concrete in-game benefits that can really power you up. Also, it's the factotum's schtick that you're messing with. That was a suggestion by Gorgon. I personally agree with you there.


Needs more flavor text in ability descriptions, so we've got a better idea of what's going on and why. You mention a tempest lash, but I frankly don't have a clue what that is, especially because there's no source. Okay.

Home Plane:

I don't like that you named it for the player. Let the players name their own dark library. WOTC named it actually. Otherwise, yeah, I'd have left the name blank. I'll probably do that anyway since the first name is impossible to spell, and the second seems about as subtle as a brick to the face.

Being able to transport to the library is fine. Not having a way to transport back is... inconvenient. good point.

This strikes me as an ability fitting for a much higher level than 4th. It was originally, but I think somebody suggested that it made more sense as a lower level ability. Not sure what my reasons were for putting it at 4th.

Infinite Knowledge:

Seems like a kind of overpowered version of Knowledge Devotion. The problem with skill-based abilities is that they either don't work at all (truenaming) or they're too easy to pump, granting ridiculous bonuses.
The 13th level bonus sucks. A bonus to AC granted around the time that AC really has started to decline in usefulness. I can't see smart players using it.
The 16th level bonus is weird and ill-fitting. I can't think of a better way to say it. "DCS" is confusing (Save DCs would be better, but still awkward), and there's really no precedent for an ability like it. Replace it?[/] I think this was a suggestion by Gorgon based off of the Marrutact.


Combat Expertise:
[The thing about combat expertise is that, as a feat that's a prerequisite for so many other feats, it's one you take early or you just don't take it at all. As such, it is out of place at 5th level. Okay. I just thought the first couple of levels were kind of front loaded already.

Damage Reduction:

"The miss chance increases by 10% every time she takes another 2 levels in the class for a total of 40% at 14th level. " - wording is awkward in the underlined part there.
So... I have 40% chance to dodge any attack at 14th level. I've also got the dodge bonus from combat expertise, so that's... 5%? 45% chance to avoid any attack. I'm also getting +5 to AC in addition to my existing bonus, so my AC is maybe going to prevent what? One in five attacks on its own? Seems a little much, numberwise. It strikes me that with some other abilities and/or concealment benefits, you're nigh untouchable (Say, warlock's entropic shield, as a start).[/] originally it was just a flat twenty percent. Should I just go back to that?


Knowledge Devotion:
What would happen if I, as an Illurien with skills stacked to maximize knowledge, huge int, int bonuses from levels in the class, item familiars granting +20 or more to the knowledge skill of my choice, picked up the Knowledge Devotion feat in addition to the bonuses granted here? Stacking! Too easy/intuitive to abuse.[/] Thanks for pointing that out.

Rejuvenation:
[quote]Kind of crippling if you don't necessarily get a choice in the matter. If I'm the BBEG trying to defeat the party, I'm going to kill the Illurien over and over, and run away after each time. Have any suggestion for how to implement it then? Somebody suggested the level drawback to balance out the unlimited amount of raise dead/resurrect or whatever it is.


I complained about the number of rolls with storm of knowledge, and I complained about the number of things that tempest lash got, goodie wise. I fear the experience tracking makes a full attack routine by the Illurien into a bit of a headache (You're rolling vs. ac, doing damage, recording damage to the monster on the sheet, rolling int damage, recording changes to the monster on the sheet, adjusting stats where needed, calculating hp gain, adding to your temporary hp pool, calculating XP damage, adding to your special XP pool... and you're doing all this potentially twice a round, several rounds in a row. The XP thing was a suggestion by Magicypop. After pointing a bunch of stuff out, I agree there's too much rolling. Any ideas on what to do to reduce the amount?

Improved SLAs:

]Too vague, a little rushed.
I can add, what? Two spells, period? Or two spells for each level?
The number of times it's usable per day is awkwardly worded. supposed to be per level to kind of represent the endless pursuit of knowledge. It was just an idea and I expect it's more powerful than I intended.


Okay, I'm addressing your various points here Hyudra. I've edited a few things out because I've already addressed them.

AugustNights
2011-01-27, 02:15 AM
They were also called Daevas back in 2e, and Daeva is approximately 10,000,000 times cooler than Angel.

Agreed, though I'd toss a few more zeros in for good measure. I'd rather be a "not-quite-god" than a "messenger" any day.

Mystic Muse
2011-01-27, 02:18 AM
Agreed, though I'd toss a few more zeros in for good measure. I'd rather be a "not-quite-god" than a "messenger" any day.

I agree, but we should probably put "(Solar)" in or something, otherwise it's hard to find what you're looking for.

EDIT: Never remind disregard this.

Frog Dragon
2011-01-27, 07:25 AM
Black Dragon

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/2778/blackdragonpowah.jpg

Class
HD: d8
{TABLE]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
1| +0| +2|+0 |+2 |Black Dragon Body, Wings: Glide, Draconic Path I
2| +1| +3|+0 |+3 |Acidic Breath, Keen Senses, Arcane Blood (Obscuring Mist)
3| +2| +3|+1| +3|Blindsense, Breath Power
4| +3| +4| +1|+4 |Physiology of the Skull Dragon
5| +3| +4| +1| +4|Draconic Path II, Grand Claws
6| +4| +5|+2 |+5 |Wings: Flight, Charm Person/Animal
7| +5| +5| +2| +5|Breath Power
8| +6/+1| +6| +2| +5|Hide of the Skull Dragon
9| +6/+1| +6|+3 |+6|Draconic Path III
10| +7/+2| +7|+3 |+7 |Growth, Grand Wings, Charm Monster
11| +8/+3| +7| +3|+7 |Breath Power
12| +9/+4| +8| +4|+8 |Plant Growth
13| +9/+4| +8| +4| +8|Draconic Path IV
14| +10/+5| +9| +4| +9|Tail Slap, Insect Plague
15| +11/+6/+1| +9| +5| +9|Breath Power
16| +12/+7/+2| +10| +5| +10|Growth, Crush
17| +12/+7/+2| +10| +5|+10 |Draconic Path V
18| +13/+8/+3| +11|+6 |+11 |Mass Charm Monster
19| +14/+9/+4| +11| +6| +11|Breath Power
20| +15/+10/+5| +12| +6| +12|Draconic Paragon[/TABLE]

Skills Points at first level: 4+Intelligence Modifier x 4
Skills Points: 4+Intelligence Modifier
Class Skills: The Black Dragon’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Climb (Str), Jump (Str), Spot (Wis), Listen (Wis), Bluff (Cha), Hide (Dex), Move Silently (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge: All skills, taken separately (Int), Spellcraft (Int) and Swim (Str).

Proficiencies: The Black Dragon gains proficiency with whatever natural weapons it has, no armor, and no weapons

Black Dragon Body
The black dragon loses all other racial bonuses gaining Dragon traits (including darkvision 60' and immunity to paralysis & sleep), with one bite as a primary natural attack dealing 1d8+1.5str, 40' base speed, swim speed equal to its base speed and is medium sized. Its claws are capable of fine manipulation and can be used for somatic components of spellcasting or anything else a human hand could do. Black Dragons have common and draconic as a starting languages, with additional languages for a high intelligence score as normal.

The black dragon also gains a natural armor bonus equal to its Con modifier. Whenever the black dragon grows one size category, its natural armor increases by a further 1.

The black dragon is immune to acid and is amphibious, capable of breathing in water indefinitely and using its breath weapon (when it gets one) underwater. It can cast spells underwater, if it has them, but is subject to all limitations governing how the spells work. Spells that do not function underwater still don't function underwater even if cast by a black dragon.

Wings
Glide
At level 1, a black dragon can use its wings to glide, negating damage from a fall from any height and allowing 20 feet of forward travel for every 5 feet of descent. Black Dragonss glide at a speed of 30 feet with average maneuverability. Even if a black dragon's maneuverability improves, it can't hover while gliding. A black dragon can't glide while carrying a medium or heavy load.
Flight
At level 6, the dragon's wings become functional, and it gains the ability to fly at a speed of 10ft per round per HD (max 200ft), with Poor Maneuverability. However, its wings are neither large, nor controlled, nor powerful enough to properly attack with so it does not gain wing attacks.

Draconic Path
Different dragons have different pursuits, and this applies to the black dragons as well. Just as some of their kind take up arcane studies from their lairs, other drakes rely on the bare minimum of magic their heritage gives them, while focusing the full of their draconic might to improve their physical prowess.
A dragon must choose one of the paths below at first level (War Dragon or Dragon Mage). Once made, this choice may not be changed by any means.

War Dragon
A war dragon may not possess the full arcane might of dragons who truly focus on their arcane talents, but that is by far not the only innate talent black dragons have. War dragons are self-sufficient, cunning and terrifying creatures, achieving with physical might and a draconic body what the dragon mage achieves with spells.
The War Dragon's hit dice per level of Black Dragon is raised do d12 (including the first level). In addition, at levels 1, 5, 9, 13 and 17, the gains a +1 bonus to initiative checks and may choose either a fighter bonus feat, with any feat that specifically enhances flying, any metabreath feat, and any feat from Dragon feats section of the Draconomicon added to the list, or skirmish damage, gaining +1d6 skirmish damage the first time they choose the skirmish option, and +2d6 every subsequent time they choose it. Prerequisites for the bonus feats must be met as normal.

The War Dragon gains +1 to STR at every odd level, a +1 to charisma at levels 4, 8, 12, 16 and 20 and a +1 to constitution at levels 2, 6, 10, 14 and 18. This totals to a +10 to strength, +5 to Charisma and +5 to Constitution at level 20.

Draconic Camouflage (Draconic Path I)
A first level black dragon choosing to focus on its physical talents becomes a powerful hunter, capable of stalking prey much smaller than itself without fail, unimpeded by its increasing physical bulk as it grows. The black dragon does not take size penalties to hide checks, and gains a bonus to hide checks equal to 4 + 1/5 its HD.

Holy &%"# It's a dragon! (Draconic Path II)
At level 5, a War Dragon's attack is both sudden and unexpected, unmatched in the sheer, raw might and explosive burst of violence. It is not subtle in the least once put in motion, but the sudden charge stuns opponents with panic, making them easy pickings for the dragon.
Whenever the war dragon charges an opponent in the surprise round, all flat footed enemies within 30 feet+5ft/HD of the dragon must make a will save (DC=10+1/2 HD+Cha modifier) or be shaken, if they have more or equal HD compared to the dragon. If they have less HD than the dragon, they are instead Frightened if they fail the save, and shaken if they do not fail it. Any creature that fails the will save takes a penalty to its initiative check equal to 1/3 the dragon's HD, and takes extra damage equal to the dragon's HD from any attack it makes during the surprise round.

Hidden Dragon (Draconic Path III)
At level 9, the dragon becomes especially adept at hiding, and gains the ability to hide even while being observed. As long as it is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, a black dragon can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. It cannot, however, hide in its own shadow. In addition, the dragon gains the ability to make a full attack at the end of a charge.

Caustic Essence (Draconic Path IV)
At level 13, the caustic nature of a black dragon begins to spread much further than just the breath weapon. All of the dragon natural weapons deal an extra 2d6 points of acid damage, and the save DC for the dragon's breath and any breath powers used in conjunction with it have their save DC:s increased by 2. In addition, a number of times per day equal to 1/3 its hit dice, the dragon may bring the full brunt of its mighty breath to bear through a singe natural weapon attack, dealing extra acid damage equal to the normal damage dealt by the breath weapon, without a reflex save to avoid the damage. This ability may be activated as a part of an attack action.

Terror of the Dark Depths (Draconic Path V)
At level 17, the black dragon masters the art of instigating a rout with a mere roar and a threatening glance. The primal fear of the great scaled monster is so overwhelming it even causes pause in those normally fearless. Any fear effect generated by a dragon affects even creatures immune to fear. In addition, when it uses its Holy &%"# It's a dragon! ability, creatures that would normally be frightened may instead be bestowed the cowering condition, at the dragon's option. Finally, the dragon is immune to fear, even fear effects caused by a level 17 war dragon.

Dragon Mage
The dragon mage is the master of sorcery, drawing on his natural talents at magic, his very blood, to call forth miraculous magic with but a thought.
The dragon mage spontaneously casts arcane spells with the spells known and spell slot progression of a bard, gaining access to spells from either the druid or the sorcerer spell list. The choice of spell lists must be made at first level, and cannot be changed afterwards by any means. Essentially, the dragon casts as a bard with a different spell list.
The dragon's caster level is equal to his hit dice. In addition, at levels 5, 9, 13 and 17, the dragon mage can add a spell to his spells known list from the spell list he did not choose at first level. This would mean that a dragon that casts druid spells would gain a sorcerer spell to his spell list at those levels. If the black dragon chooses druid casting, it may add the spells from any one of the following domains to its list at levels 1 and 9. The domain choices available are Water, Trickery and Plant. If the Draconomicon is available, the Domination domain is added to the list. Finally, it gains Eschew Materials as a bonus feat.

If it multiclasses as a bard its spellcasting increases as a bard
If it multiclasses as a sorcerer it counts as already having sorceror casting depending on its dragon level, as shown on the following table (if druid list was chosen then it keeps learning spells from the druid list instead of sorcerer/wizard list).

{table]Dragon level | Virtual sorcerer casting
1|-
2|1
3|2
4|3
5|4
6|5
7|6
8|6
9|7
10|8
11|8
12|9
13|10
14|10
15|11
16|12
17|12
18|13
19|13
20|13[/table]

So for example a dragon 2 who takes a level of sorcerer would count as already having 1 level of sorcerer and gains the spell slots and spells known that a sorcerer gains when leveling from level 1 to 2, but not the spell slots and spell knowns from the 1st level of sorceror. He would get the familiar ability, but dragon levels wouldn't count for it.

A dragon 18 who takes a level of sorceror would count as having 14 levels of sorcerer (13+1) and gain the spell slots and spells known that a sorcerer gains when leveling from level 13 to 14, but not the spell slots and spells known that a sorcerer gets from level 1 to 13. He would get the familiar ability, but dragon levels wouldn't count for it.

The Dragon Mage gains +1 to STR at levels 4, 8, 12, 16 and 20, a +1 to charisma at levels 1, 5, 9, 13 and 17, a +1 to intelligence at levels 2, 6, 10, 14 and and 18 and a +1 to constitution at levels 3, 7, 11, 15 and 19. This totals to a +5 to strength, Charisma, Intelligence and +5 to Constitution at level 20.

Draconic Theory (Draconic Path I)
While the black dragon gains magical powers just from its magnificent bloodline, handling arcane forces has a way of sharpening the focus of a creature already disposed to hoard knowledge.
At first level, the Black Dragon is capable of utilizing its refined knowledge to better understand magic and its enemies. The dragon may take ten on spellcraft checks in any situation. In addition, times per day equal to 1/4 the Dragons HD+Int modifier (minimum 1), the dragon may mimic the effects of Detect Magic, with the following differences: The dragon does not need to concentrate, and gains the information in the amount of rounds that would normally be needed for concentrating. In addition, the Dragon's ability is not limited to a cone, but instead discerns all effects within 30ft of the dragon.

Breath Channeling (Draconic Path II)
At fifth level, Times per day equal to half his hit dice, the black dragon may warp the magics comprising their spells through its fundamentatum, making them an integral part of his breath weapon.
The breath weapon is used and the spell is cast in the same action, with the action used being the one taking the most "time". For example, if the black dragon channeled a spell that would normally take a swift action to cast, it would instead be cast in the same standard action that the breath weapon was used in. The casting provokes attacks of opportunity as normal, and apart from being cast in the same action as the breath weapon, the spell is cast normally.
If the spell cast would normally only affect a single target, the target is chosen from those in the breath weapon's area of effect, even in the case of a touch spell. However, if the spell itself has an area of effect such as cone, line or burst, the area of effect is instead altered to match the breath weapon's area of effect. In cases where it matters, the damage of the breath weapon is resolved before the effects of the spell take place.
Using this ability extends the recharge time of the dragon's breath weapon by a round, and cannot be combined with breath powers other than Breath Control.

Awesome Magic (Draconic Path III)
At level 9, a Black Dragon working its magic is a terrifying sight to behold, especially when the spell in question is directed at you. Any spell with verbal components audible at the time of casting can be used to trigger Awesome Magic, which causes any creature within 30ft+5ft pr hd of the dragon to become shaken unless they succeed on a will save (DC=10+1/2 HD+ Cha modifier), unless they have less than half the dragon's HD, in which case they are frightened on a failed save, and shaken on a successful one. Awesome Magic can be used 1/4HD+cha modifier times per day.

Grand Dracomancy (Draconic Path IV)
At level 13, the dragon's mastery of magic reaches new heights. So complete is its control over the arcane forces drawn from its blood that it can cast any spell it knows as a still spell without needing a higher level slot to cast it. A dragon doesn't do fancy handsigns to cast a spell. It just does. In addition, times per day equal to 1/4 HD +Int modifier, the dragon can gain a bonus to a single spellcraft check equal to its HD.

Scale Thaumaturgy (Draconic Path V)
At level 17, the black dragon learns to shape arcane energies into scales. Each day, it may spend 10 minutes per scale to store a single spell from the spell list it normally casts from. The spell does not need to be on its spells known list. The dragon may do this 3 times per day, and can craft a scale with a spellcraft check with a DC of 20+spell level. The dragon can only have one scale-inscribed spell of a spell level of 5 or higher, and once cast, the scale dissipates, and the spell cannot be cast again until another scale with the same spell is inscribed. Casting a spell from a scale takes a spell slot as normal.

Acidic Breath
At level 2, as a standard action no more than once every 1d4 rounds, the Black dragon may breathe out a line of acid out to 60', plus 10' per class level. It deals 1d6 damage/HD, with a reflex save (10+1/2 HD+Con Mod) for half.

Arcane Blood
At second level, a full-blooded black dragon has magic in its very blood, and no specimen is exempt from this. Even dragons focusing on their physical prowess gain some magical ability. The save DC:s are equal to 10+1/2 Dragon's HD+charisma modifier.
Firstly, at level 2, the dragon may bring the misty marshes of its home with it, gaining the ability to cast Obscuring Mist once per day+ another time per day every 3 hd after the second HD it gains.
At sixth level, the dragon's guile and subtle powers of deceiving the mind appear, granting it the power to cast charm person or charm animal as a spell like ability one per day per three hit dice. At tenth level, they can cast Charm Monster as well from the same pool of uses, and at eighteenth level, they may cast Mass Charm Monster from the same pool of uses.
At twelfth level, the dragon may also cast Plant growth once per day per 5 hit dice.
At fourteenth level, the dragon may cast Insect Plague once per day per 5 hit dice.

Keen senses
At 2nd level, the black dragon sees four times as well as a human in shadowy illumination and twice as well in normal light. It also has darkvision out to 120 feet, and can see normally even in magical darkness.

Blindsense
At level 3, the black dragon gains blindsense out to 60ft+5ft per level.

Breath Power
At third level, and every four levels thereafter, the black dragon gains additional powers with its breath weapon. The dragon may choose a single power from the list below, provided it meets the prerequisites for it. Using a Breath Power adds an amount of rounds to the recharge time of the Acidic Breath of the black dragon, as indicated in the description. Only one Breath Power may be utilized at a time.
Soul-Burning Acid
When the Soul-Burning Acid power is added to the breath weapon of the black dragon, half the Acid Damage the breath weapon would normally deal is instead turned into Untyped damage, the acid searing through the very being of the creature, instead of just hide. Using this ability adds one round to the recharge time of the breath weapon.

Acidic Fumes
The Dragon's acidic breath fumes light mists that sicken and weaken those exposed to it. Any creature caught within the area of the dragon's acidic breath must make a fortitude save (DC=10+1/2 HD+Con modifier) or be sickened for 1d4 rounds. Using this ability adds one round to the recharge time of the breath weapon.

Breath Control
The dragon gains further control over its breath weapon. Instead of a line of acid, it may instead utilize a 30ft cone of acid+5feet per class level. Using this ability adds no time to recharge period of the breath weapon, and may be used in conjunction with other Breath Powers.

Forceful Stream
Prerequisite: Level 7 black dragon
The Dragon's acidic breath is emitted with unusual force. Any creature of equal or smaller size compared to the black dragon that fails the reflex save against the dragon's breath is knocked prone. Using this ability adds two rounds to the recharge time of the breath weapon.

Poisonous Breath
Prerequisite: Level 7 black dragon
Far more than simply horrid to the nose, the dragon's breath can be intermingled with a vile poison. A creature caught within the are of the breath weapon must make a fortitude save (DC=10+1/2 HD+Con Modifier) or be poisoned (inhaled poison) and take 1d6 points of strength damage. The secondary damage is also 1d6 strength damage. Using this ability adds two rounds to the recharge time of the breath weapon.

Horrid Breath
Prerequisite: Level 11 black dragon
The dragon's breath stuns targets with nausea. A creature caught within the are of the breath weapon must make a fortitude save (DC=10+1/2 HD+Con Modifier) or be nauseated for 1 round.Using this ability adds two rounds to the recharge time of the breath weapon.

Enlarged Breath
Prerequisite: Level 11 black dragon
The Dragon's breath is exhaled into a larger area, encompassing a massive area. This ability doubles the breath weapon's range, so a 40 ft cone becomes a 80 ft cone and so on. This ability adds Using this ability adds one round to the recharge time of the breath weapon.

Stunning Breath
Prerequisite: Level 15 black dragon
The dragon's breath knocks the wind out of enemies, leaving them disoriented. A creature caught within the area of the breath weapon must make a fortitude save (DC=10+1/2 HD+Con Modifier) or be stunned for 1d4 round, with another fortitude save to end the effect each round. Using this ability adds three rounds to the recharge time of the breath weapon. If the creature is immune to being stunned, it is instead dazed.

Cursed Exhalation
Prerequisite: Level 15 black dragon
The dragon learns to bring the marshes to its enemies, pinning them down with the draining essence of the swamps. A creature caught within the are of the breath weapon must make a fortitude save (DC=10+1/2 HD+Con Modifier) Or be exhausted. In addition, those that fail the save are also slowed for 1d4 rounds. Using this ability adds three rounds to the recharge time of the breath weapon.

Breath of Ruination
Prerequisite: Level 19 black dragon
The dragon unleashes its most potent breath, dissolving enemies to nothingness in mere moments, and leaving acidic fumes, droplets floating in the air and pools of acid in its wake, creating a zone of utter destruction. The Dragon's breath deals damage as if the Empower Breath feat was used on it and any creatures killed by the breath weapon are utterly disintegrated, as if killed by the spell, though in this case, not even dust remains. In addition, the area encompassed by the breath weapon continues to deal damage equal to 1d6/4 HD for 5 rounds after the initial attack, with a reflex save for half. Using this ability adds four rounds to the recharge time of the breath weapon.

Exhaled Aura
Prerequisite: Level 19 black dragon
The dragon shapes its breath weapon into a cloak around itself. Instead of damaging creatures in its normal area, any creature adjacent to the dragon takes the normal damage for the breath weapon, with a reflex save to halve the damage. This ability lasts for 3 rounds. Using this ability adds four rounds to the recharge time of the breath weapon.

Physiology of the Skull Dragon
At fourth level, the black dragon becomes immune to diseases and poisons of any sort.

Grand Claws
At level 5, the dragon gains two secondary claw attacks dealing damage equal to 1d4+1/2 the dragon's strength modifier.

Hide of the Skull Dragon
At ninth level, the Black Dragon's hide toughens to turn away both sword and spell. It gains Spell Resistance equal to 11+HD and DR/- (Damage Reduction) equal to 1/2 HD.

Growth
At 10th level the Black dragon grows to large size.
At 16th level the Black dragon grows to huge size.

Its AC, bonus to hit, base damage, grapple and skills change accordingly, but it doesn't get any ability score bonuses or penalties.

Grand Wings
At level 10, the dragon gains two secondary wing attacks dealing damage equal to 1d6+1/2 the dragon's strength modifier.

Tail slap
At level 14, the black dragon can make a tail slap attack dealing 1d8+1/2 str damage (already taking the dragon's size into account). This is a natural secondary attack.

Crush
At 16th level this dragon can make a crush attack dealing 2d8 damage, taking the dragon's huge size into account.

This special attack allows a flying or jumping dragon of at least Huge size to land on opponents as a standard action, using its whole body to crush them. Crush attacks are effective only against opponents two or more size categories smaller than the dragon (though it can attempt normal overrun or grapple attacks against larger opponents).

A crush attack affects as many creatures as can fit under the dragon’s body. Creatures in the affected area must succeed on a Reflex save (DC equal to that of the dragon’s breath weapon) or be pinned, automatically taking bludgeoning damage during the next round unless the dragon moves off them. If the dragon chooses to maintain the pin, treat it as a normal grapple attack. Pinned opponents take damage from the crush each round if they don’t escape.

A crush attack deals the indicated damage plus 1½ times the dragon’s Strength bonus (round down).

Draconic Paragon
at level 20, the Dragon becomes the pinnacle of its kind. The recharge time of its breath weapon is decreased by 1 round in all cases, to a minimum of 1 round. The maneuverability of its flight increases by one step. In addition, it gains other benefits depending on which draconic path it chose.
War Dragon
The dragon can force two will saves against any fear effect it makes. If the target fails one of the saves, the target is treated as having failed the save. In addition, its Caustic Essence ability now grants +4d6 acid damage to all natural attacks.
Dragon Mage
The Dragon Mage can use its Scale Thaumaturgy to cast spells otherwise out of its reach (since it has the spell progression of a bard). It can inscribe a seventh level spell on a scale, and can cast level 7 spells gained via Scale Thaumaturgy three times per day. In addition, the spells gained by scale thaumaturgy no longer fade when they are being cast, but can be cast up to 3 times before fading. Finally, the dragon no longer has a limitation on how many scales it can have of spell slots higher than 4, though it can still only craft three spellscales per day.
Comments

So. Finally done. As far as I can see, the War Dragon is about on par with ToB, though perhaps somewhat more straightforward. I tried to encourage tactics, especially with the "Holy &%"# It's a dragon!" (needs another name) ability. The War Dragon is intended to be scary and sneaky, and the two aspects complement each other. In addition, it should be rather good in combat. I wanted to drop pounce in, but I didn't want to overload the lower levels, so it comes kinda late. Maybe I should put it in with Caustic Essence? I'm also a bit worried about the dippability of that option.

As for the Dragon Mage, I hope the domain thing and the extra spells from the other list help the druid casting stay up to par. The other abilities mostly signify that dragons are ancient creatures, and very knowledgeable. Magic is in their blood, and thus, Draconic Theory. Scale Thaumaturgy was something that popped into my mind when I was trying to think of a level 17 ability for the Dragon Mage, and I think it is pretty good, if perhaps slightly awkwardly worded. Not sure how to clarify it though.


Changelog
March 26 - Tidied up descriptions, fixed typos. Clarified stuff. Added gliding at first level, and dropped the darkstalker feat from the Draconic Camouflage ability. Switched around Hidden Dragon and Caustic Essence, while boosting the latter. Granted natural attacks at lower levels.

radmelon
2011-01-27, 09:58 AM
I would like to request the Lodestone Marauder (MMIV).
How does it work? :smallcool:

TheGeckoKing
2011-01-27, 10:50 AM
Well. At least your Black Dragon looks cooler, I guess. Mine was a bit haphazard so if you wanna do it, that's cool. My only gripe is that the higher level stuff (Diseased Breath, Toxic Breath, Impure Breath) are a bit useless against a Warforged, or any of the many ways of being immune to being sickened/nauseated. Might wanna give them a secondary effect that's a bit harder to get around.

Scio
2011-01-27, 06:28 PM
Ettercap
http://i51.tinypic.com/2mgoap3.jpg
Ettercap
Hit Dice: d8

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features

1st|
+0|
+0|
+2|
+0|Ettercap Body, Web, Vermin Empathy, Dex+1, Con+1

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+3|
+0| Dex+1, Poison, Spider Rider

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+3|
+1|Master Climber, Spider Companion, Synergy, Dex+1, Con +1 [/table]

Skills Points at first Level: (4+Intelligence Modifier) x 4
Skills Points at Each Level: (4+Intelligence Modifier)
Class Skills: The Ettercap’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) (Int), Move Silently (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Use Rope (Dex).

Proficiencies: The Ettercap gains proficiency with Light Armor, Nets, Whips, Its own natural weapons, and all simple weapons.

Ettercap Class Features: The following are the Class Features of the Ettercap.

Ettercap Body (Ex.): At first level an Ettercap loses all racial traits and gains the following: Aberration type, Darkvision 60’ and Low-light Vision, two claw attacks as secondary natural weapons that deal 1d3 + Str. Mod. damage each, a bite attack as a primary natural weapon that deals 1d8 + 2x Str. Mod. damage, a base land speed of 30 feet, and a climb speed equal to their base land speed. Additionally, an Ettercap gains one point of dexterity per Ettercap level and one point of constitution per two Ettercap levels.

Vermin Empathy (Ex.): An Ettercap can influence creatures of the Vermin type with a Diplomacy check. For the purposes of this ability, an Ettercap is considered to have 3+HD ranks in Diplomacy, and the key ability score of Diplomacy for the purposes of this ability is Wisdom. This can be used to influence the attitude of a Monstrous Vermin at a -4 penalty. Additionally, an Ettercap can use the Handle Animal skill to train mindless creatures of the Vermin type.

Webs (Ex.): An Ettercap can spin webs as a standard action a number of times per day equal to twice its HD. At 5 HD, this ability changes to an at will. These webs can either be thrown, in which case they function as a net, or placed, in which case they cover one five foot square. If anyone other then an Ettercap, Drider, or Monstrous Spider enters a square, they are entangled. This web can be broken with a Strength Check. This Strength check has a DC of 10 + 1/2 the Ettercap's HD + the Ettercap's Constitution Modifier. When occupying a square with a web in it, an Ettercap is considered to have Tremorsense out 60’, but only for connected squares with webbing on them. In addition, a use of the web ability can be used to produce either 20 Ft. of silk rope or a whip.

Poison (Ex.): At second level, an Ettercap’s bite attack has a 50% chance to inject poison on a successful hit. This poison does 1d4/1d6 Dexterity damage at 3 HD. This increases to 1d4/1d8 at six HD, 1d6/1d8 at nine HD, 1d6/2d6 at 12 HD, 1d6/2d8 at 15 HD, and 1d6/3d8 at 18 HD. This poison has a fortitude saving throw of 10 + ½ the Ettercap’s HD + the Ettercap’s Constitution modifier. In addition, an Ettercap's poison causes an opponents limbs to stiffen, decreasing their effectiveness in combat. For this reason, an Ettercap's poison inflicts a -1 penalty on the opponent's Attack Bonus, as well as an additional -1 at five HD and for every 5 HD beyond that. This penalty is cumulative.

Spider Rider: An Ettercap gains a bonus to the Ride skill equal to 3 + the Ettercap's HD, but only when riding creatures of the Vermin type. In addition, when riding creatures of the Vermin type, an Ettercap takes no penalty from using the Ride skill without a saddle.

Master Climber (Ex.): At third level, an Ettercap no longer has to make climb checks when it takes damage, can take actions that require both hands while climbing, and can take run and charge actions while climbing. in addition, the bonus to climb checks gained from a climb speed increases to +20.

Synergy: At third level, an Ettercap’s class levels stack with all other classes for the purposes of one of the following: Sudden Strike, Sneak Attack, Skirmish, Favored Enemy, or Unarmed Strike damage.

Spider Companion: At third level, an Ettercap gains a medium monstrous hunting or web-spinning spider as an animal companion. An Ettercap's effective druid level is its HD-3. Instead of a normal animal companion progression, an Ettercap may instead advance its spider's size category by one for every four effective druid levels, up to Colossal+ at 21st level. at 25th level, the spider becomes a Colossal+ sized Devastation Vermin. For every size category the spider advances, the Ettercap's effective druid level for the purposes of it's animal companion decreases by 4.

Comments/Changelog:

Comments
[MM]
Hi! I'm new here and I've been toying with this for a week or two. I was thinking that a monstrous spider mount or companion would fit with the fluff, but it might be too powerful.
the point of the Master Climber ability is mostly to make it so the Ettercap has a leg up on people who use spider climb and such. The bonus to climb checks is so it can climb on ceilings without having to make a check.
The Synergy is mostly so it can multiclass into rogue or scout or something without losing damage progression.
I'm not sure about the poison and I think it might be a bit too strong.

I sure hope people like this.
Changelog
Class Written:1/27/11
Changed Master Climber and added damage for Nat. weapons.
Changed Poison and Wis. Bonus
Added Spider Companion
Tweaked Vermin Empathy, Removed Illiteracy
Added Proficiencies, tweaked Web
Fixed Vermin Empathy, Synergy, Changed Wis. Bonus

Class Changed: 2/26/11
Made it a three level class
Changed stat bonuses again
Messed with poison a little. Now you have to wait ten rounds to do any real damage and it's a percentile chance. So you should probably tie them up first.
Made Vermin Empathy a bit easier to understand.
Added Extraordinary tags.

Class Changed 3/18/11
Removed Ride from skill list and substituted it with the Spider Rider ability.
Clarified how size increases affect the animal companion progression.
Added an additional effect to poison.

Hyudra
2011-01-27, 06:39 PM
Not up to doing a review just yet, but a heads up:

Look at the formatting of other monsters. Note how they have the monster name & image in plain view, with the class features & whatnot inside the spoilers

Having everything inside spoilers may lead to your monster being overlooked. I'll have a review for you tonight or tomorrow, as I'm aiming to do another batch critique.

Betropper
2011-01-27, 06:46 PM
Here is a review, since I haven't done much on the thread lately (It's in the quote):



Ettercap
Hit Dice: d8

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features

1st|
+0|
+0|
+2|
+0|Ettercap Body, Vermin Empathy, Dex+1, Wis+1, Illiteracy

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+3|
+0|Poison 1d4/1d4, Web, Wis+1, Dex+1

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+3|
+1|Poison 1d6/1d6, Dex+1, Wis+1

4th|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+1|Poison 1d6/2d6, Master Climber, Synergy, Dex+1, Wis+1[/table]

Skills Points at 1rst Level: (4+Intelligence Modifier) x 4
Skills Points at Each Level: (4+Intelligence Modifier)
Class Skills: The Ettercap’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) (Int), Move Silently (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Use Rope (Dex).

Proficiencies: The Ettercap gains proficiency with Light Armor, Nets, Its own natural weapons, and all simple weapons.

Ettercap Class Features: The following are the Class Features of the Ettercap.

Ettercap Body: At first level an Ettercap loses all racial traits and gains the following: Aberration type, Darkvision 60’ and Low-light Vision, two claw attacks as secondary natural weapons Damage? I'm assuming your using the damage scale by size, but you should probably just say the damage considering you lose all racial traits (including size), a bite attack as a primary natural weaponSame as above., a base land speed of 30 feet, and a climb speed equal to their base land speed Hmm? Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Climb a skill, not a movement?. Additionally, an Ettercap gains one point of dexterity and one point of wisdom per Ettercap level. May be too much, I'm not sure.

Vermin Empathy: An Ettercap can influence creatures of the Vermin type with a Diplomacy check. For the purposes of this ability, an Ettercap is considered to have 3+HD ranks in Diplomacy, and Diplomacy is based off of wisdom. This can be used to influence the attitude of a Monstrous Vermin at a -4 penalty.

Illiteracy: as Barbarian

Poison (Ex.): At second level, an Ettercap’s bite attack injects poison on a successful hit. This poison does 1d4/1d4 Dexterity damage at 2nd level, 1d6/1d6 Dexterity damage at 3rd level, and 1d6/2d6 Dexterity damage at 4th level. This poison has a fortitude saving throw of 10 + ½ the Ettercap’s HD + the Ettercap’s Constitution modifier Whoa, too much. This could reuce a level 3 character's dex to zero easily, and this activates every bite. Also, when does the secondary damage hit?

Webs (Ex.): An Ettercap can spin webs as a standard action a number of times per day equal to twice its HDPeriod needed. at 5 HD, this ability changes to at will. These webs can either be thrown, in which case they function as a net, or placed, in which case they cover one five foot square. If anyone other then an Ettercap, Drider, or Monstrous Spider enters a square, they are entangled, as the spell. This web requires a DC 20 Strength or Escape Artist check. The DC of this check increases by 1 for every 2 HD the Ettercap has. When standing on a square with a web in it, an Ettercap is considered to have Tremorsense out 60’, but only for connected squares with webbing on them.

Master Climber: At fourth level, an Ettercap is always considered to be on solid ground while climbing, even when on ceilings Even on things like ice? May want to alter this a bit.

Synergy: At fourth level, an Ettercap’s class levels stack with other classes for the purposes of Sudden Strike, Sneak Attack, Skirmish, and Unarmed Strike damage.
It's a great start though! :smallbiggrin:

Gideon Falcon
2011-01-27, 07:22 PM
I think that the Tarrasque class needs to be redone. As is, it's awesome. If it was playable, it would be even awesomer.

The Antigamer
2011-01-27, 07:29 PM
I think that the Tarrasque class needs to be redone. As is, it's awesome. If it was playable, it would be even awesomer.

I'm just so firmly against PC's being tarrasques that I can't support the idea :smallyuk:

Luckily for you my opinion isn't stopping anyone from making another attempt at it :smallwink:

Scio
2011-01-27, 07:49 PM
Thanks for the feedback! Just so you know there is actually such a thing as a climb speed. It's under "special"here. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/climb.htm) I wasn't really thinking about slippery surfaces when I was writing it, but it's fixed now, so thanks! It now essentially lets you treat walls and ceilings as floors. I'm not sure about doubling the bonus on climb checks, though.

Also, I thought the poison was overpowered too, but I wasn't sure how to make it scale correctly. This is my first time making a class, so I would appreciate it if someone would help me figure it out.

Gorgondantess
2011-01-27, 08:00 PM
Also, I thought the poison was overpowered too, but I wasn't sure how to make it scale correctly. This is my first time making a class, so I would appreciate it if someone would help me figure it out.

Well, that all depends on how powerful you want to poison to be. A good start would be to look at other monsters- Hyudra's wyvern is about as powerful as it should get. Also, here in Improved Monster Classes, we like to scale things by HD, not class level, so things don't end up becoming obsolete so easily just because it's a 3 level class as opposed to a 20 level class.
Secondly, we don't give out attribute bonuses if the class isn't going to use them. Handing out all that dexterity is fine and good, but ettercap has no use for wisdom aside from skills & will saves. Instead, a good choice would be to stagger out +2 constitution.
All in all, though, it's an excellent start. I like what you did with the tremorsense & the web.

Scio
2011-01-27, 08:29 PM
Well, on the stats thing, I thought that the wisdom bonus should go in since the actual monster has 15 Wisdom, but yeah, you're right, it might work better with +2 Con. or something.

On the poison thing, maybe I should change it to 1d4+1d4/3 HD instead. What do you think?

Gorgondantess
2011-01-27, 08:35 PM
Well, on the stats thing, I thought that the wisdom bonus should go in since the actual monster has 15 Wisdom, but yeah, you're right, it might work better with +2 Con. or something.

On the poison thing, maybe I should change it to 1d4+1d4/3 HD instead. What do you think?
As I said, check out the wyvern. Tables are nifty.:smallcool:
(In other words, don't feel the need to restrict yourself to a linear progression. Also, 6d4 strength damage is pretty ridiculous.)

Scio
2011-01-27, 09:02 PM
All right, I took your advice and tried to fix the poison and stat bonuses. The poison is one die size lower then the Wyvern because it already has a climb speed and webs.

Also, what do you think of the spider mount/companion idea?

Gorgondantess
2011-01-27, 09:06 PM
All right, I took your advice and tried to fix the poison and stat bonuses. The poison is one die size lower then the Wyvern because it already has a climb speed and webs.

Looks OK to me. Might be a tad too high, but, eh, I can swing it.:smallbiggrin:



Also, what do you think of the spider mount/companion idea?
I'm the one who loves giving companions as class abilities, so if you think it's a good idea, go right ahead. I'd probably just give 'em a large monstrous spider as an an animal companion with effective druid level equal to HD-3 or something, maybe giving an option to switch out for a larger monstrous spider at later date (and lower effective druid level).

Oh, and also: I'm not a fan of giving illiteracy. Just sayin'.

Scio
2011-01-27, 09:20 PM
Well, the reason I gave it illiteracy was that Ettercaps are meant to be pretty stupid, and honestly, what's a Spider-person who lives way out in the wilderness going to write about anyways?:smallconfused:

Gorgondantess
2011-01-27, 09:24 PM
Well, the reason I gave it illiteracy was that Ettercaps are meant to be pretty stupid, and honestly, what's a Spider-person who lives way out in the wilderness going to write about anyways?:smallconfused:

Fungus patterns?:smalltongue:
Really, though, trolls don't get illiteracy. Awakened animals don't get illiteracy. I see no reasons ettercaps shouldn't. Also, I remember seeing a picture of a portly ettercap wearing a victorian suit, stovepipe hat and monocle. He's a doctor. It makes me happy.:smallbiggrin:

Crafty Cultist
2011-01-27, 09:44 PM
I didn't realize this project had been restored. Good to see it up and running again. Bleakborn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9618000&postcount=669) is still awaiting endorsments. and I thought I'd respond to magicyop's thoughts on the class


Bleakborn: Again, I like it, it may not be perfect, but I think it deserves to go on the list.
I'll remind everyone, we're not trying for perfection. While that would be nice, classes should be added to the list as long as they are relatively playable, fun, and balanced. Bleakborn seems to be this for the most part, so I'll give it my vote.
With that being said, there are some things you will probably want to look at.

I'm really not sure why you're doing Heat-draining aura the way you are doing it. Why not simply make it deal cold damage, and with its "Heat Siphon" ability, the healing would come naturally? This whole fast healing business seems extraneous.
Fourth, not forth.
Brittle Strike: Again, no scaling into epic levels? Monkman said it earlier, but these are used in epic games very often. Just go by your established pattern: 1 dex damage for every 7 HD you have.
Watch the capitalization, all ability names should be capitalized.
Ice Ward: Remember that a fourth level bleakborn may not have 4 HD? Just say that it's DR 1/- for every 4 HD they have.
Frost Nova: Tough to say what this is. It can't decide between being a spell-like type thing and being a breath weapon. Why not give it a couple more times per day, but say that instead of every x rounds, the bleakborn can use it when they are at their coldest, aka, low health? Just a thought.



I choose to make the heat draining aura seperate from Heat siphon because I felt that it could be unbalancing to have it work based simply upon the amount of creatures present. A low level bleakborn could gain massive amounts of healing by sorrounding itself with weak creatures while a high level bleakborn would have a negligible amount of healing when facing a single powerful foe. I simply thought that a flat number would be more balanced.
Noted, and changed
Point taken. The ability now scales every 7 HD beyond 3
I capitalize the first word of the ability names but not the others. It's the stanard I've developed and I dont think it needs changing. If it bothers you, I'll change it for future classes, but I don't want to go through all my old monsters just to change the puctuation
Ice ward changed to DR 1 per 4HD
Frost nova is a supernatural ability, but I wouldn't class it as a breath wepon. Its more like the bleakborn bringing its heat draining abilities to the fullest. Rather than uses per day would it work better with a 2d4 round cool down time, during which their heat draining aura ceases to fuction as they have overused its power?

Great to see this up and running again

Scio
2011-01-27, 10:25 PM
Ok, I removed Illiteracy, added Spider Companion, added whip proficiency. I also tweaked the Vermin Empathy ability so you can actually train your companion, and the Web ability so you can also produce ropes and whips.

Saidoro
2011-01-27, 11:22 PM
Ettercap
Ettercap
Hit Dice: d8

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features

1st|
+0|
+0|
+2|
+0|Ettercap Body, Vermin Empathy, Dex+1

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+3|
+0|Web, Dex+1, Con+1

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+3|
+1|Poison, Dex+1

4th|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+1|Master Climber, Spider Companion, Synergy, Dex+1, Con+1 [/table]
Ettercaps are CR 3.

Skills Points at 1rst Level: (4+Intelligence Modifier) x 4
Skills Points at Each Level: (4+Intelligence Modifier)
Class Skills: The Ettercap’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) (Int), Move Silently (Dex), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Use Rope (Dex).

Proficiencies: The Ettercap gains proficiency with Light Armor, Nets, Whips, Its own natural weapons, and all simple weapons.

Ettercap Class Features: The following are the Class Features of the Ettercap.

Ettercap Body: At first level an Ettercap loses all racial traits and gains the following: Aberration type, Darkvision 60’ and Low-light Vision, two claw attacks as secondary natural weapons that deal 1d3 damage each, a bite attack as a primary natural weapon that deals 1d8 damage, a base land speed of 30 feet, and a climb speed equal to their base land speed. Additionally, an Ettercap gains one point of dexterity per Ettercap level and one point of constitution per two Ettercap levels. Ettercaps have lowish constitution, they're supposed to be ambush predators not brawlers.

Vermin Empathy: An Ettercap can influence creatures of the Vermin type with a Diplomacy check. For the purposes of this ability, an Ettercap is considered to have 3+HD ranks in Diplomacy, and Diplomacy is based off of wisdom. This can be used to influence the attitude of a Monstrous Vermin at a -4 penalty. Additionally, an Ettercap can use the Handle Animal skill to train mindless creatures. Might want to restrict this to vermin, undead and golems are mindless too.

Poison (Ex.): At third level, an Ettercap’s bite attack injects poison on a successful hit. This poison does 1d4/1d6 Dexterity damage at 3 HD. This increases to 1d6/1d6 at six HD, 1d6/1d8 at nine HD, 1d6/2d6 at 12 HD, 1d8/2d6 at 15 HD, and 2d6/2d6 at 18 HD. This poison has a fortitude saving throw of 10 + ½ the Ettercap’s HD + the Ettercap’s Constitution modifier.

Webs (Ex.): An Ettercap can spin webs as a standard action a number of times per day equal to twice its HD at 5 HD, this ability changes to at will. These webs can either be thrown, in which case they function as a net, or placed, in which case they cover one five foot square. If anyone other then an Ettercap, Drider, or Monstrous Spider enters a square, they are entangled, as the spell. This web requires a DC 20 Strength or Escape Artist check. The DC of this check increases by 1 for every 2 HD the Ettercap has. When standing on a square with a web in it, an Ettercap is considered to have Tremorsense out 60’, but only for connected squares with webbing on them. In addition, a use of the web ability can be used to produce either 20 Ft. of silk rope or a whip.

Master Climber: At fourth level, an Ettercap no longer has to make climb checks when it takes damage, can take actions that require both hands while climbing, and can take run and charge actions while climbing. in addition, the bonus on climb checks gained from a climb speed increases to +16.

Synergy: At fourth level, an Ettercap’s class levels stack with other classes for the purposes of Sudden Strike, Sneak Attack, Skirmish, and Unarmed Strike damage. All of them? So a Ettercap 4/Rogue 1/ Ninja 1/ Scout 1 would have 3d6 sneak attack, 3d6 sudden strike and whatever it is scout gets at level 5?

Spider Companion: At fourth level, an Ettercap gains a medium monstrous hunting or web-spinning spider as an animal companion. An Ettercap's effective druid level is its HD-3. Instead of a normal animal companion progression, an Ettercap may instead advance its spider's size category by one for every four effective druid levels, up to Colossal+ at 21st level. at 25th level, the spider becomes a Colossal+ sized Devastation Vermin.



Comments in blue.

Scio
2011-01-28, 01:03 AM
Wait, Ettercaps are CR 3? I'm using the 3.0 Monster Manual :smalleek:. I'm not sure constructs are trainable, but I'll fix it anyways. About Synergy; I just didn't want them pigeonholed into one class. I'll change it so you can pick one. Also, how about a compromise between Gorgondantess' suggestion and yours? Maybe +2 Wis. or something?

Frog Dragon
2011-01-28, 01:52 AM
Well. At least your Black Dragon looks cooler, I guess. Mine was a bit haphazard so if you wanna do it, that's cool. My only gripe is that the higher level stuff (Diseased Breath, Toxic Breath, Impure Breath) are a bit useless against a Warforged, or any of the many ways of being immune to being sickened/nauseated. Might wanna give them a secondary effect that's a bit harder to get around.
I gave it another breath option, the Weakening Breath, which applies a strength penalty. Don't remember anything that should be immune to that, offhand.

Gorgondantess
2011-01-28, 02:15 AM
Wait, Ettercaps are CR 3? I'm using the 3.0 Monster Manual :smalleek:. I'm not sure constructs are trainable, but I'll fix it anyways. About Synergy; I just didn't want them pigeonholed into one class. I'll change it so you can pick one. Also, how about a compromise between Gorgondantess' suggestion and yours? Maybe +2 Wis. or something?

We are going by 3.5 here. Please don't be looking at 3.0. Ever. If there's any confusion, try here. (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/monsters.htm)
Constructs aren't trainable... but by what you wrote, the ettercap could train them.
No wisdom. Period. Unless you want to give it wisdom based abilities, which is cool. It does have highish constitution on the actual monster, as well as strength. One of the two. Or just up the actual class features and leave it at dexterity. I don't know much on the fluff, so I just said constitution, as it is a very mechanically appropriate choice, and it wouldn't be going out of fluff entirely.

AugustNights
2011-01-28, 03:43 AM
Swarmshifter

I'm still thinking the swarmshifter would benefit from set class abilities rather than found class abilities.
I'm not certain how well a CR and HD formula will work for this guy, sure it leaves a lot of options available, but does very little balance working.
I guess at the end of the day using both CR and HD things shouldn't get to crazy, however I would prefer to see at least a small list of opinions customized to fit the class, that advance with HD. But I've already mentioned that I think.
Also, class options seems to be my MO recently with that ridiculous idea of mine to add all the golems I can find to the Half-golem template...


Cloaker
I like the idea of a Cloaker hiding on a fellow adventurer, nice touch with the half weight addition.
Engulf is unclear as to weather it needs to succeed on a touch attack before attempting to grapple an opponent.
The ability to grapple, and attack other creatures without a penalty is very strong. While normally creatures with improved grab may grapple as if they were not at a -20 penalty, normal creatures cannot attack outside of the grapple at all. Consider allowing the attacks, but perhaps at a healthy penalty?
Engulfing leap mentions flight, which the cloaker does not yet have, it may be good to specify that it must land after this flying bout.
It seems as if you are unsure when these abilities should be available without darkness. I am unsure whether they should be available without darkness.
The language in the moans alternates between mentioning enemies and anyone. I doubt a sonic-mind effecting screech could differentiate between ally and enemy, but if it can, you may wish to be consistent with it.
I suppose fear effects aren't terribly strong when everyone will be resisting or immune to them at this level, but still save or panicked is quite strong.
Stupor mentions level rather than HD, which implies that it comes into play at Cloaker L.9, which their isn't. You may wish to change that to HD.
While some of the options are nice, it seems to me to be a very bare class, it could use some more fun abilities, maybe more fluffy ones that can play off the idea that it looks like a cloak, I mean, why not take advantage of the fact that a party member can wear it. I mean, think of all the awesome abilities a semi-magical living cloak that abhors nature could grant to your adventuring buddies!


Quasi-god


- Successfully complete a trial of supreme difficulty, thus earning your Divinity.
Dig this pre-req. Is it new, or did I not notice it's awesome before?
Divine Spark: I'm thinking this healing energy should be chosen by the player as Healing, Repairing, or Harming, as that an undead god may wish to 'heal' the undead.
I dig the infinite use of l.0 spells, but only 1/5 rounds. Nice touch.
I imagine That quasi-gods count as "other gods" for their light-darkness ability.
Demi-plane looks good, I see a demi god going off to their Elemental Plane of Sandwiches to pack a bunch of adventurers a lunch. (Food's cheap enough in D&D, and at L.11 if the party hasn't got access to Create Food and Water, they've got bigger issues to deal with than hunger.)
Still definitely going to point my players at this if they ever want to become gods (again.)


Storm giant
Okay I see how the Exp thing works, that makes sense after some careful re-examination.
I guess I've tended to play in and with longer combat sessions, 4-5 rounds is generally a mook fight, and scheduled fights can take much longer. I don't know how long other people tend to play with.
Especially with the BBEG, the Storm Giant will only need 3-4 rounds to charge up a super assault, and when charging such a super assault is done with attacks and damaging actions, it really steals the...well, thunder, from other classes.
Most "Heavy Monsters" will have immunities to Save or Sucks, or Save or Dies, but AoOs, those could get nasty fast.
With Lightning Palm, 3 rounds of Shooting lightning at an enemy, the save or die DC is bumped by 15, and that's if the player wasn't finding some sort of creative UMD or other magical loophole to get iterative attacks that deal only lightning damage, such as a Level dip into sorcerer, and a rod of quick spell, this offers a DC bump of +20 for two rounds of blasting.
Maybe it's just a knee-jerk reaction to seeing +(5xY) to a save or die DC. IIRC death from massive damage is not actually a death effect, and less Major Villains will be immune to it.
I love the class, btw, always pleasantly surprised when I see your creations. I always think "Well that can't possibly be interesting" and then I read it and wonder why I ever doubted you ability to turn boring things into amazing things.
Still not personally comfortable with the Charges as it stands, but that's just my two pence.


Jovoc

Body of Vengeance: Nitpick, you change persons from You to It from the first sentence to the second.
Double Claw: Does this allow for iterative attacks with both claws? This ability is either very very strong, or mildly uninteresting, I think you could get creative with it, and expand on it.
Retributive aura...at 16HD is terrifyingly easy to break wide open, then again I guess waves of status effects at 16th HD isn't horrible, but I'm not currently savvy on all the "Status effects" there are. Is dead one? Stunned is. A stunned Jovoc makes for a great stun bomb. Have the party monk use stunning fist on him, fail the save willingly, move the jovoc, by any means, into a group, and shoot an arrow at it. Bam. Group is save or stunned.
Same thing can be done with any status effect.
Grappled? That's even better.
Two Jovocs walk in to a bank, and begin wrestling, then one punches the other, everyone else must save be treated as if they were grappled.
The lack of duration is also an issue.
Then the jovocs open the vault, take the money and walk away as the guards paradoxically wrestle with invisible foes.
Rapid Recovery is... Wow! 14 HD you're literally healing Ability damage like it's the pink raised to skin by a slap... that's... abusable and strong. I guess no stronger than immunity to such a thing, so I don't know.
Shared doom... is uhm... yeah. Wow.
Over all, it's got some very shakily worded features, and very little flavor to the thing. It could use some spicing up. I'm unfamiliar in general with the Jovoc, what's their thing? Succubi Seduce, Bearded Devils got Beards, Balors are big, and Kytons throw chains around, what do these guys do, and how can you make it awesome?


Razor Boar

You may wish to detail trample's action and effects in its entry.
Also, I think "1.5" would be better than "3/2" for the strength modifier as bonus damage.
3rd level this class is looking might barren, and mighty vanilla. So far it has trample, some natural attacks and a little DR, compare this to other Melee monsters of 3rd level, usually there is already some nice combat abilities.
Fourth level is all critical bumping...which isn't very fun for the play, nor very active. It's a fine side ability, but fourth level should offer an active attack or something. Maybe something like "Spear-hilt Charge" allowing the Boar an AoO against any creature that readies a weapon against it's charge.
At fifth level this guy hasn't got much going for him other than his size.
Reflexive gore has some wording issues that seem to imply that the Boar can attack itself, which makes little sense. I mean, of course it can attack itself, but why have an ability that allows it to do so?
This class is in serious need of some creative active options.
Waiting for a critical to happen is a mugs game played by fighters and non-errata Talenta-scythe wielders.
To answer a few of your questions IMO
* Should I up the racial bonus to bull rush?: Meh. No real need to.
* Is Sharp Tusks broken?: Not so much broken as boring.
* Is Unstoppable to much?: No, it's both weaker and stronger than Deathless frenzy, so I see no real problem with it, and its one of the more active abilities this class has. Maybe it belongs higher on the table, at a higher level, but the table needs some more filling out.
* Crazy Sharp: y/n?: If she must be critical focused, the ability to Critical Against those pesky Undead/Oozes/Constructs/Fortified Armor Wearing savvy Jerks is always a good idea. However it is also suffering from the fact that it is very passive.
I think I've hit the active/passive nail enough times to mar the wood. It's a tough beastie to build, good luck with the revisions!

Vivisector

Where is this guy from?
The eating vomiting rings bit, that's both cool and weird... personally I'd have my own explanation for the rings, but this works just fine.
A deaf race, I imagine, would suffer a mild penalty to Move Silently, I know I have trouble sneaking out of the house being quiet backstage if I have my headphones in some reason for not being able to hear.
Woah! Vivisection is both brutal and confusing, I mean I like it but... how does it steal the organs if its hands are knives?
Does it eat them? Does it do surgery on itself? Does it simply derive curative pleasure from cutting open living creatures? What goes on here?
Poor Blood is outside of the Organ list and all alone!
If you donate two pence today, the Save an Organ Foundation can feed and cloth an abandened Blood in the Vivisector's entry.
Telekinesis is pretty strong compared to the other abilities.
What about eyes?
Ears?
Hands?
Fingers?!?!
Stomach?
Intestines?
Bile?
Membrane?
Pulmonary Sack?
Sinew?
Fat!?!?!
Tentacles?
Teeth?
Construct-organs?
Nerves?
BRAINS!?!?!
Bladder?
Appendix?
Feet? What. I'd steal feet. I'd totally steal feet.
Endocr- Probably best not to go there.
All in all she's decent yet, but could use some fluffy abilities in my mind. Some fun side powers as it were.
Keep at it!

Frog Dragon
2011-01-28, 08:59 AM
Skeroloth
http://i54.tinypic.com/4jqi53.jpgg
HD: d6

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+2|
+2|
+0|Skeroloth Body, Sneak Attack +1d6, Natural Stealth, +1 Dex

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+3|
+1|Feign Weakness, +1 Dex

3rd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+1|Sneak Attack +2d6, Yugoloth Magic, +1 Dex[/table]


Proficiencies
The Skeroloth is proficient with its natural attacks, no armor and no shields.

Skill Points: 6+Int
Class Skills: Balance, Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Diplomacy, Disguise , Hide, Intimidate, Knowledge (any), Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, Search, Sleight of Hand, Spellcraft, Spot, Survival, Tumble, Use Magic Device

Skeroloth Body
The Skeroloth loses all previous racial and gains the outsider traits (Darkvision 60ft, no need to eat or sleep). It gains a natural armor bonus equal to it's con modifier, and two claw attacks that deal 1d4+str damage each. It also gains a land speed of 40ft per round. A Skeloroth is a small creature that has no hands capable of fine manipulation. A skeroloth automatically gains Common as a language, and can choose either Abyssal of Infernal regardless of intelligence score. It may choose any language as a bonus language.

When the Skeroloth gains its sixth HD, it gains another two claw attacks.

Natural Stealth
The Skeroloth gains a bonus to Hide Checks equal to half its hit dice.

Sneak Attack
If a Skeroloth can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage.

The Skeroloth’s attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the Skeroloth flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and it increases by 1d6 every two Skeroloth levels thereafter. Should the Skeroloth score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied.

Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.

With a sap (blackjack) or an unarmed strike, a Skeroloth can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual -4 penalty.

A Skeroloth can sneak attack only living creatures with discernible anatomies—undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to sneak attacks. The Skeroloth must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A Skeroloth cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach.

Dexterity Bonuses
Each level, the Skeroloth gains a +1 racial bonus to its dexterity score, for a total of +3 at level 3.

Feign Weakness
At level 2, the Skeroloth may Feint as a swift action or as a move action (counts as Improved Feint for the purpose of prerequisites).

In addition, every time the Skeroloth successfully feints in combat, he gains a dodge bonus to AC equal to +2, and an additional +1 bonus for every 5 hit dice the skeroloth has. This bonus is gained against the target of the feint only, for one round.

Yugoloth Magic
At level 3 the Skeroloth may cast Daze and Expeditious Retreat times per day equal to their hit dice.

When the Skeroloth gains its 6th hit die, it can cast Hold Person (level 3 spell) times per day equal to 1/3 it's hit dice.

When the Skeroloth gains its 11th hit die, it can cast Hold Monster (level 5 spell) times per day equal to 1/3 it's hit dice.

Comments
Back to the Yugoloths. Did a fairly simple one this time.

It's the Skeroloth from the Fiend Folio, which is basically just an ambusher and a coward to boot. I only had 3 levels to fill so I just cannibalized abilities from the original monster. To me, it seems a bit more powerful than an equally leveled rogue, but it might need tweaking.

I didn't like the Cringe ability that much, especially on a PC, so it got replaced with the boosted feinting.

Scio
2011-01-28, 09:40 AM
It's nice, but a little dull. Is it supposed to be some sort of giant flea demon? Maybe it could have a bonus to jump checks equal to 2xHD? I dunno, you have all the crunch down pretty well, it's just that I like semi-useless flavor abilities a little too much.

Frog Dragon
2011-01-28, 10:00 AM
Well, the original creature didn't even have a word about jumping, and it doesn't look like a creature that should be especially good at jumping to me anyway.

Also, given that it already has a speed of 40ft, it isn't that bad at jumping anyway.

Scio
2011-01-28, 10:18 AM
Yeah, I guess you're right. It just reminds me of a flea for some reason.

Saidoro
2011-01-28, 10:34 AM
Skeroloth
HD: d6

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+2|
+2|
+0|Skeroloth Body, Sneak Attack +1d6, Natural Stealth, +1 Dex

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+3|
+1|Feign Weakness, +1 Dex

3rd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+1|Sneak Attack +1d6, Yugoloth Magic, +1 Dex[/table]


Proficiencies
The Skeroloth is proficient with its natural attacks, no armor and no shields.

Skill Points: 8+Int
Class Skills: Balance, Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Diplomacy, Disguise , Hide, Intimidate, Knowledge (any), Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, Search, Sleight of Hand, Spellcraft, Spot, Survival, Tumble, Use Magic Device

Skeroloth Body
The Skeroloth loses all previous racial and gains the outsider traits (Darkvision 60ft, no need to eat or sleep). It gains a natural armor bonus equal to it's con modifier, and two claw attacks that deal 1d4+str damage each. It also gains a land speed of 40ft per round. A Skeloroth is a small creature that has no hands capable of fine manipulation.

When the Skeroloth gains its sixth HD, it gains another two claw attacks.

Natural Stealth
The Skeroloth gains a bonus to Hide Checks equal to half its hit dice.

Sneak Attack
As Rogue. You need to actually say what this does in the class.

Dexterity Bonuses
Each level, the Skeroloth gains a +1 racial bonus to its dexterity score, for a total of +3 at level 3.

Feign Weakness
The Skeroloth may Feint as a swift action or as a move action (counts as Improved Feint for the purpose of prerequisites). You need to say what level it gets this at in the description.

In addition, every time the Skeroloth successfully feints in combat, he gains a +2 dodge bonus to ac and an additional +1 dodge bonus to AC for every 5 HD the Skeroloth has. How long do these last?

Yugoloth Magic
At level 3 the Skeroloth may cast Daze and Expeditious Retreat times per day equal to their hit dice. Daze is pretty meh, especially at third level. Consider adding another similar but more powerful ability at some number of HD.

Comments in blue

TheGeckoKing
2011-01-28, 10:55 AM
@ChumpLump
Well, the MMV doesn't say where these things come from, and it doesn't elaborate much on WHY they Vivisect creatures, only that they feed of the organs for healing. I guess they could just go down a butcher for some offal, but monsters will be monsters. As for all the parts that i'm missing........
That's why I didn't make up class options for the Swarmshifter. I tried to make up options in the 1st draft of the SS, but they sucked. Hard. I'm just not good at making up lots of options like you. :smallannoyed:
So I went for the next best option. Use all the swarms available, and offer them as forms, because either a player will probably want a classic form (Bees, Spiders, Bats) or some exotic thing they saw in a Splatbook anyway.

Frog Dragon
2011-01-28, 12:00 PM
I did the requisite rogue copypasta, and clarified the Feign Weakness ability. I need to think of SLA:s to give them, but I fixed the other stuff.

Hyudra
2011-01-28, 12:18 PM
I guess I've tended to play in and with longer combat sessions, 4-5 rounds is generally a mook fight, and scheduled fights can take much longer. I don't know how long other people tend to play with.

In a given fight, though, are you honestly dealing the damage to a single enemy for the full 4-5 rounds? Because that's what it takes to make your Thunder & Lightning surges shine.


Especially with the BBEG, the Storm Giant will only need 3-4 rounds to charge up a super assault, and when charging such a super assault is done with attacks and damaging actions, it really steals the...well, thunder, from other classes.

Well, it's my personal experience that a fight with the BBEG will be short and intense. In a game with save or lose effects at level 1, it's difficult to set up an encounter where the PCs are going to be exchanging blows for 5+ rounds. In those encounters where you can have the long, knock-down, drag-up fight, it's not implausible for the BBEG to have protection from or resistance to lightning. A Storm Giant that has to resort to Torrential Attack (Turning Lightning damage to Sonic damage) isn't going to be building surges, so you get your longer encounter that way.


Most "Heavy Monsters" will have immunities to Save or Sucks, or Save or Dies, but AoOs, those could get nasty fast.

I admit I could stand to tone down the AoOs some. I'm hoping for some more feedback before I get in elbows deep to make changes.


With Lightning Palm, 3 rounds of Shooting lightning at an enemy, the save or die DC is bumped by 15, and that's if the player wasn't finding some sort of creative UMD or other magical loophole to get iterative attacks that deal only lightning damage, such as a Level dip into sorcerer, and a rod of quick spell, this offers a DC bump of +20 for two rounds of blasting.

Perhaps I could/should specify a limit to number of surges added in a given round. Not too strict, but enough that it heads off shenanigans.


Maybe it's just a knee-jerk reaction to seeing +(5xY) to a save or die DC. IIRC death from massive damage is not actually a death effect, and less Major Villains will be immune to it.

That's intentional. One wants the Storm Giant to have something to bring to the table at high/epic levels, and it is meant to be representative of such vast amounts of damage that someone is scattered to the four winds.


I love the class, btw, always pleasantly surprised when I see your creations. I always think "Well that can't possibly be interesting" and then I read it and wonder why I ever doubted you ability to turn boring things into amazing things.

Thank you. That's nice to hear.


Skeroloth

Use this url for the pic:
http://i54.tinypic.com/4jqi53.jpg

Frog Dragon
2011-01-28, 01:16 PM
Thanks for that pic, Hyudra.

I have to say that looking at some of Oslecamo's old work, some of it is stuff that I would not allow into my game. Take for example, the Ghaele Eladrin. It's a full tier 2 arcane spellcaster with a full BAB, better HD and a bunch of class features to seal the deal. Being slightly MAD certainly doesn't compensate for that, especially since you get a sizable bonus to one of the stats that are supposed to be contributing to said MAD. The MAD is really weak here anyway, because you only need to get your Wis up to 19, and then you can ignore it, which is not hard when you're getting a +5 to your main casting stat just from your class levels.

My quick fix would be to replace sorcerer spellcasting with bard spellcasting, but otherwise using the same stipulations. That way, there are actual tradeoffs.

Hyudra
2011-01-28, 02:11 PM
All my respect to Oslecamo, as far as getting the project off the ground and popularizing it, but he didn't have the best head for balance. Beyond that, even those creatures that are technically balanced, wouldn't necessarily pass muster today. Minotaur and Troll are two creatures with some potential to be interesting, but are just a mess of passive bonuses with little to make for interesting gameplay. There's also a few (Dragon, Tarrasque) which are potential nightmares as far as the power level they bring to the game. I've discussed the point to death with Gorgondantess (as far as dragons are concerned, anyways), but I still have to say I wouldn't allow any of the Monster Class Dragons into my games.

On the other side of the spectrum, I wouldn't mind a chance to tackle a few of the monsters Oslecamo did already, from scratch, just to bring them up to par with monsters today in terms of options & power level. The aforementioned Minotaur and Troll included.

Though I'm hesitant to contribute more monsters, because with Gorgondantess so busy as to be unable to critique, and MagicYop AWOL, the council thing has more or less fallen through. I feel like the Manticore and Basilisk are nearly done & need a final lookthrough by experienced contributors before addition to the list, but there's nobody to give that final say.

I've currently got loose frameworks done for Chimera, a non-monster class that's turning out to be a huge project (not related to this project), and one monster class that I'm keeping under wraps until it's towards the end-stages (It's a 20 level class, bleh).

Lord_Gareth
2011-01-28, 02:18 PM
I'd love to see you redo Erinyes if you could, my friend.

Kobold-Bard
2011-01-28, 02:19 PM
I'd love to see you redo Erinyes if you could, my friend.

They'll do it if you "volunteer" for council duty.

Gorgondantess
2011-01-28, 02:19 PM
All my respect to Oslecamo, as far as getting the project off the ground and popularizing it, but he didn't have the best head for balance. Beyond that, even those creatures that are technically balanced, wouldn't necessarily pass muster today. Minotaur and Troll are two creatures with some potential to be interesting, but are just a mess of passive bonuses with little to make for interesting gameplay. There's also a few (Dragon, Tarrasque) which are potential nightmares as far as the power level they bring to the game. I've discussed the point to death with Gorgondantess (as far as dragons are concerned, anyways), but I still have to say I wouldn't allow any of the Monster Class Dragons into my games.
I still personally think that the dragon isn't that bad. It's more powerful than a warblade or crusader, but barely, and just as hard to go "ridiculous optimization LOL" with.


On the other side of the spectrum, I wouldn't mind a chance to tackle a few of the monsters Oslecamo did already, from scratch, just to bring them up to par with monsters today in terms of options & power level. The aforementioned Minotaur and Troll included.
I think that would be a good idea. I'm already working on 2 of the monsters he did that are just flat out messes (Wild Hunt & Ethergaunt).


Though I'm hesitant to contribute more monsters, because with Gorgondantess so busy as to be unable to critique, and MagicYop AWOL, the council thing has more or less fallen through. I feel like the Manticore and Basilisk are nearly done & need a final lookthrough by experienced contributors before addition to the list, but there's nobody to give that final say.
I've been busy, yeah, but I will say that the Pseudonatural Creature is 85% finished, and just needs a few more invocations, statting out of the, ah, "familiar", and a little tweaking. Once I'm done with that, I'll be able to contribute much more.


I've currently got loose frameworks done for Chimera, a non-monster class that's turning out to be a huge project (not related to this project), and one monster class that I'm keeping under wraps until it's towards the end-stages (It's a 20 level class, bleh).

Neato.:smallcool:

ScionoftheVoid
2011-01-28, 03:03 PM
Okay, I feel the need for a reminder that the Gargoyle is not technically finished yet, but is close (I think). If I can get a more recent review I'll try to get it list-worthy. In the mean time, I'm taking up the Lodestone Marauder (MM4). It was one of a few things I wanted to do, so now it's been requested I may as well.

Frog Dragon
2011-01-29, 07:36 AM
I gave the Skeroloth Hold Person and Hold Monster as it gains levels.

Scio
2011-01-29, 09:36 AM
We are going by 3.5 here. Please don't be looking at 3.0. Ever. If there's any confusion, try here. (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/monsters.htm)
So, should I change it to a three level class now, or just keep it as is?


No wisdom. Period. Unless you want to give it wisdom based abilities, which is cool. It does have highish constitution on the actual monster, as well as strength. One of the two. Or just up the actual class features and leave it at dexterity. I don't know much on the fluff, so I just said constitution, as it is a very mechanically appropriate choice, and it wouldn't be going out of fluff entirely.
How about something like blindsense out 5'+5' per point of Wis. mod? Or maybe the saving throw for poison is based off of Wis? That way the Blindsense, Poison, and Vermin Empathy are all based off of Wis. Plus it can multiclass into monk, which uses Dex and Wis as it's main scores.
Also, I just figured out that the poison the 3.0 Ettercap has is different from the poison that the 3.5 Ettercap. Now I'm thinking that a bonus damage progression would be better than a die size progression.

Hyudra
2011-01-29, 02:31 PM
So, should I change it to a three level class now, or just keep it as is?

Build it as a 3 level class, as that's the standard way of doing things around here.


How about something like blindsense out 5'+5' per point of Wis. mod? Or maybe the saving throw for poison is based off of Wis? That way the Blindsense, Poison, and Vermin Empathy are all based off of Wis. Plus it can multiclass into monk, which uses Dex and Wis as it's main scores.
Also, I just figured out that the poison the 3.0 Ettercap has is different from the poison that the 3.5 Ettercap. Now I'm thinking that a bonus damage progression would be better than a die size progression.

The blindsense thing feels forced.
The poison goes against common sense.

Overall, there's really no need for the wisdom bonus or stuff being based off of wisdom.

Gorgondantess
2011-01-29, 03:11 PM
Build it as a 3 level class, as that's the standard way of doing things around here.


The blindsense thing feels forced.
The poison goes against common sense.

Overall, there's really no need for the wisdom bonus or stuff being based off of wisdom.

Aye. There's no reason not to use constitution, really.

Frog Dragon
2011-01-29, 03:30 PM
Anyone willing to have a look at my Black Dragon? I'd like to get to doing the bigger Yugoloths again, but if there's a lot of fixing to be done with the dragon, it might not work so well.

Hyudra
2011-01-29, 04:31 PM
Troll
http://i55.tinypic.com/2d2d9if.jpg
Monster Class
Monster Manual, SRD

Class
HD: D10

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will |Special
1st|+0|+2|+2|+0| Troll Body, Furor, Mend Flesh, +1 Str, +1 Con
2nd|+1|+3|+3|+0| Scent, Gnaw, +1 Str, +1 Con
3rd|+2|+3|+3|+1| Thrash, Rend, Regeneration, +1 Str, +1 Con
4th|+3|+4|+4|+1| Excision, Tumescent Recovery, +1 Str, +1 Con
5th|+3|+4|+4|+2| Growth, Violent Onslaught, +1 Str, +1 Con
[/table]
Skill Points 2+Int per level
Class Skills: Climb, Jump, Swim, Knowledge (Nature, Dungeon) Intimidate, Tumble.

Proficiencies: The Troll is proficient only with its own natural attacks.

Troll Body: The Troll loses all other racial bonuses and gains Giant traits, granting it low light vision. Trolls are initially medium sized creatures with a base movement speed of 30', possessing two claw attacks that deliver 1d4 + Str mod damage each and natural armor equal to their con modifier.

Trolls speak either Common or Giant as their starting language and gain additional languages for a high intelligence score as normal.

Attribute Bonus: The Troll gains +1 to Strength and Constitution with each level in the class, for a total bonus of +5 Str and +5 Con at 5th level.

Furor: Starting at first level, the Troll may throw itself at a foe with reckless abandon, claws or weapon flailing, heedless of the blows he himself suffers. The Troll may, as part of a full attack, declare he is using Furor and deliver an additional blow using its highest attack bonus, with a -2 penalty. A Troll delivering a claw attack in this manner suffers only a -1 penalty to hit. Using Furor provokes an attack of opportunity from the victim, but only a maximum of one such attack of opportunity a round. A successful attack of opportunity does not interrupt or interfere with the Furor.

After any successful hit with Furor, a Troll of 2HD or more may elect to deliver another Furor attack at a further, cumulative -2 (-1 for claw) penalty. As such, a Troll would suffer a -2 for the first Furor attack, a -4 for the second, a -6 for a third, and so on. This process may be repeated to deliver a number of Furor attacks up to or equal to the Troll's HD, with the caveat that if one Furor attack misses, they all miss. Non-furor attacks are unaffected, and do damage independently of whether the Furor misses.

Finally, starting at 2HD, a Troll may deliver a series of Furor attacks alongside a standard action attack, but is limited to one extra attack for every two HD it has. This involves the same cumulative penalties and provokes the attack of opportunity, as described above.

Mend Flesh: Starting at first level, the Troll may step back from combat to crudely smear or pinch its flesh together, prompting muscle and warty hide to join together again. Mend Flesh is a standard action, in which the Troll heals itself of damage equal to its HD or its Con modifier, whichever is higher. This is a supernatural ability, and does not count as a spell or magical power for the purposes of healing nonlethal damage (In short, you do not heal an amount of nonlethal damage equal to the lethal damage healed).

This may be performed a number of times a day equal to the Troll's Con modifier. In the event that the Troll suffers fire or acid damage, this ability becomes unusable for 1d4 rounds.

Starting at 3HD, if the Troll is damaged and unable to take a standard action (such as if it is unconscious, stunned, dying or dazed), it will automatically use Mend Flesh as a free action.

At 9HD, the Troll may use Mend Flesh as a move action.

At 15HD, the Troll heals twice the amount.

Scent: At second level, the Troll gains Scent, as per the monster ability, with a standard range of 30'. Trolls can scent fires and smoke at four times the usual range (twice the usual range, as a racial variant, doubled again as smoke is a strong scent). Scent is described here:
This extraordinary ability lets a creature detect approaching enemies, sniff out hidden foes, and track by sense of smell.

A creature with the scent ability can detect opponents by sense of smell, generally within 30 feet. If the opponent is upwind, the range is 60 feet. If it is downwind, the range is 15 feet. Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above. Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at three times these ranges.

The creature detects another creature’s presence but not its specific location. Noting the direction of the scent is a move action. If it moves within 5 feet of the scent’s source, the creature can pinpoint that source.

A creature with the Track feat and the scent ability can follow tracks by smell, making a Wisdom check to find or follow a track. The typical DC for a fresh trail is 10. The DC increases or decreases depending on how strong the quarry’s odor is, the number of creatures, and the age of the trail. For each hour that the trail is cold, the DC increases by 2. The ability otherwise follows the rules for the Track feat. Creatures tracking by scent ignore the effects of surface conditions and poor visibility.

Creatures with the scent ability can identify familiar odors just as humans do familiar sights.

Water, particularly running water, ruins a trail for air-breathing creatures. Water-breathing creatures that have the scent ability, however, can use it in the water easily.

False, powerful odors can easily mask other scents. The presence of such an odor completely spoils the ability to properly detect or identify creatures, and the base Survival DC to track becomes 20 rather than 10.

Gnaw: Starting at second level, the Troll gains Bite as a secondary natural weapon, dealing 1d4 + ½ Str damage.

Further, a Troll may, as a standard action, make a Gnaw attack. This requires the Troll take a full round action to make a single Bite attack, which suffers the standard penalty to hit for being a secondary weapon. This special attack deals 1d8 + 2x Str damage, with the Troll and the victim making an opposed Strength check if the bite hits and damages the victim. Every time the Troll succeeds in the Strength check, it deals 1 point of Con damage and makes another Strength check, with the Troll sustaining a cumulative -2 penalty to its Strength check for each attempt after the first, until the Troll fails the opposed Strength check. This ability only works on flesh and blood enemies. The damage dealt by the Gnaw attack penetrates DR.

Gnaw provokes an attack of opportunity from adjacent opponents, but if the Troll is below half hitpoints, Gnaw does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the target (it still provokes attacks of opportunity from other foes in the immediate vicinity).

At 5HD, the Con damage increases to 1d2. This becomes 1d4 at 10HD, 1d6 at 15HD and 1d8 at 20HD.

Thrash: A third level Troll can exercise strength and raw brutality to bring its foes to their knees. Thrash offers two options to the Troll:
As part of a melee full attack, foregoing the use of Furor or attack maneuvers, the Troll may batter his opponents with such ferocity that they buckle under the assault. As the Troll makes a full attack with every attack directed at a single foe, the Troll and that foe make opposed strength checks, using the special modifiers for size as found under Grapple. If the foe fails to beat the Troll's result, that foe is immobilized for one round, losing the ability to move from their current location of their own volition for the duration.
The Troll may make a jump check with a +2 bonus. If it comes within reach of an airborne foe, it makes a trip attack against that foe. The opponent does not get a bonus for having additional legs, nor can they attempt to trip the Troll if the attack fails. If the trip attack is successful, the Troll drives the foe 30 feet straight downward, plus 5' per point he beat the opponent's result. Foes take falling damage as appropriate, and fall prone on striking the ground. Foes who are still in the air at the beginning of their next turn can use their airborne mobility and maneuverability to avoid hitting the ground. This is a full round action if the Troll makes the jump check, and a standard action if it can reach and make the trip attack against the airborne foe without the jump.

Rend: Starting at third level, a Troll that hits a foe with both claw attacks deals a bonus 2d6 + 1.5 x Str damage. A Rend can only occur once each round. A Troll that uses Furor is not paying enough attention to whether its attacks are hitting to take advantage of Rend, so Rend only has a 50% chance of working if a Troll uses Furor.

Regeneration: At third level, the Troll manifests the Regeneration ability, healing an amount of nonlethal damage each round equal to half its HD. Fire and Acid deal normal damage to the Troll. Should the Troll lose a body part, it regrows in 3d6 minutes. The Troll can reattach the severed body part by holding it to the stump for 1 round. Regeneration is described here:
Creatures with this extraordinary ability recover from wounds quickly and can even regrow or reattach severed body parts. Damage dealt to the creature is treated as nonlethal damage, and the creature automatically cures itself of nonlethal damage at a fixed rate per round, as given in the creature’s entry.

Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, deal damage to the creature normally; that sort of damage doesn’t convert to nonlethal damage and so doesn’t go away. The creature’s description includes the details. A regenerating creature that has been rendered unconscious through nonlethal damage can be killed with a coup de grace. The attack cannot be of a type that automatically converts to nonlethal damage.

Creatures with regeneration can regrow lost portions of their bodies and can reattach severed limbs or body parts. Severed parts die if they are not reattached.

Regeneration does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation.

Attack forms that don’t deal hit point damage ignore regeneration.

An attack that can cause instant death only threatens the creature with death if it is delivered by weapons that deal it lethal damage.

A creature must have a Constitution score to have the regeneration ability.

Excision: At fourth level, a Troll that would fall victim to physical maladies (effects that would require a Fortitude saving throw) can tear and claw away their own flesh to prevent the effect from setting in properly. Doing so is a free action, declared as one fails a Fortitude Save. The Troll deals its own claw damage (typically nonlethal) to itself and adds half the damage total to the result of the saving throw.

For example, a Troll achieves a result of 15 against a DC 18 petrifaction attack. It opts to claw at the parts of its body that are turning to stone, dealing 1d4+6 damage to itself. Rolling a 4 for damage, the Troll effectively deals 10 points of nonlethal damage to itself, adding +5 to the result of the save. With a new effective result of 20, the petrifaction is averted.

Tumescent Recovery: At fourth level, the Troll may enhance its regeneration for short periods of time, healing less mortal wounds within heartbeats of their occurrence. Activating Tumescent Recovery is a swift action, and grants the effects until the end of the Troll's next turn. For the duration, the Troll forces all damage rolls against it to be rerolled and use the lower result. Tumescent recovery is usable once a day per 2HD, but the effect has the same restrictions on use as Mending Flesh (It suffers the same 1d4 round restriction on use after taking fire damage) and the effect ends immediately if the Troll suffers fire or acid damage (fire and acid damage is not rerolled).

Growth: A fifth level Troll grows to large size. Its reach, grapple modifiers, natural attack damage and skills change accordingly, but it doesn't gain any ability score bonuses or penalties.

Violent Onslaught: A fifth level Troll may throw himself through enemy ranks, clawing or smashing his way through them as he does so. This is a full round action, in which the Troll moves half its movement allowance in a straight line (it cannot move a shorter distance). The Troll can move through spaces occupied by enemies, but not through obstacles. Should he so wish, he may make a jump check to give himself vertical height to strike at flying foes.

The Troll makes a single attack, at a -2 penalty, against every opponent who falls within his reach during the movement. If the Troll attacks with its claws, it makes these attacks at a -1 penalty. This attack deals full damage to swarms.

At the end of the first onslaught, a Troll that has either killed an opponent or made the onslaught while at 50% or less health (count nonlethal damage as lethal for these purposes) may make a second use of Violent Onslaught, provided it is not moving back in the direction it came. Rather than suffer a -2 penalty, this second charge grants a +2 bonus to attacks made (+4 for claws).

Opponents of the Troll's size or larger may make an attack of opportunity against the Troll as it tears past.

Comments
I made a few changes here. The main thing I wanted to address was how passive Oslecamo's Troll was. It didn't have a lot of options in combat, and those options it did have weren't a ton of fun.

Mend Flesh is one such example. It's in keeping with the Troll's primary schtick (regeneration), but requires an action and some thought for use in combat. It's a little strong at early levels, but given that the Troll doesn't have proficiencies and is pretty much stuck with somewhat unimpressive claws (1d4 base damage is not fantastic), it should at least give the Troll enough staying power to feel confident about using Furor or just outlasting opponents in the fray.

Furor is fairly fitting for the Troll, given flavor descriptions and my own mental picture of the Troll looming before you, largely ignoring the fact that you're stabbing through her chest while she tears off your head. There's a bit of a gamble element in there too; at level 20 you might be able to deliver 20 bonus attacks, which looks ridiculous on paper, but missing one means you lose 'em all. On the flip side of the coin, though, it also means you really, really don't want to be denied your AC against Trolls. If you're helpless, that Troll can and will tear you to pieces. Which is great - it's very much in keeping with my mental picture of trolls.

Tumescent Recovery is another I wanted to mention. The effect is largely flavor, because it allows for some awesome moments where the Troll is striding through the magical sandstorm, healing as fast as its flesh can be ripped away, or striding through enemy ranks to crush that damned wizard, wounds closing up as fast as they are made. I think I'll have to go back to it to tidy it up, though.

So, the Troll is a reckless fighter that can throw itself into the fray and trade hits, then heal up and be ready for the next fight. I've tried to give it a few options so it has something to do in most level 1-5 combats. I think this version would be much more enjoyable to play, or to play against, should a DM wish to throw it at the group.


Changelog
Feb 03, 2011:
Gnaw bite & bonus damage now penetrate DR.
Excision bonus to saves is halved.
Tumescent recovery is clarified. Added a table elaborating on the healing amount.
Feb 06, 2011:
Gnaw (which was a singular bite attack that did bonus damage equal to the target's total HD, penetrating DR) replaced with Chomp, a single bite attack that can deal potentially massive damage, which was the intent anyways.
Clarified what Immobilization does, under Thrash.
Leaving Rend, Tumescent Recovery and Violent Onslaught alone until I decide what to do with them.
Feb 10, 2011:
Rend now only has a 50% chance of working if you use Furor, so there's a choice to be made in declaring your use of Furor.
Tumescent Recovery no longer grants healing each time you take indirect damage (indirect damage was hard to calculate and the overall effect was complicated) but now lets you force rerolls on all damage taken for the duration.
Violent Onslaught now has a 'rage mode', where a troll brought to low health, or a troll that offs an enemy, can use the ability again, with a small bonus.
Feb 11, 2011:
Changed Chomp (described above, in the changelog) back to Gnaw, but changed mechanics. It now lets the Troll bite, followed by making a Strength check against the foe. Each strength check you pass deals con damage and lets you make another strength check (with a penalty on the check and more con damage) until you fail.

Crafty Cultist
2011-01-29, 04:40 PM
The new troll looks pretty good, but there a few minor issues. You haven't stated how many hit points of damage a troll heals with regeneration and I'm not familiar with the immobilized condition mentioned in thrash. Did you mean they are knocked prone?

Edit: Also, some wepon proficiencies might be apropriate. trolls are savage, but capable of using tools. Maybe just a few basic wepons, like the club, sling, greatclub or spear

Hyudra
2011-01-29, 04:45 PM
Added the regeneration amount (equal to 1/2 HD). Tweaked Mend Flesh so it doesn't heal scads of nonlethal damage as well (oversight on my part). Immobilized means you cannot move from your current square, but does not, IIRC, forbid full attack options. It is not equivalent to being knocked prone.

Frog Dragon
2011-01-29, 04:51 PM
BAB is weird. If it's medium BAB, the level 5 bonus should be +3.

Hyudra
2011-01-29, 04:52 PM
True dat. Was copying monster class template from a level 4 creature, and was rushing through the new row on the table.

ScionoftheVoid
2011-01-29, 05:39 PM
Lodestone Marauder
http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy173/Voidminion/Fafnir.jpg

Lodestone Marauder
Hit Dice: d10

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features

1st|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+0|Lodestone Marauder Body, Magnetic Defense, Spiked Hide, +1 Str

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+0|
+0|Lesser Magnetic Repulsion, Lesser Magnetic Attraction, +1 Con

3rd|
+2|
+3|
+1|
+1|Spiny Whirlwind, +1 Str

4th|
+3|
+4|
+1|
+1|Growth, Magnetic Wrecking

5th|
+3|
+4|
+1|
+1|Magnetic Crushing Charge, +1 Con

6th|
+4|
+5|
+2|
+2|Claws, Climb Speed, +1 Str

7th|
+5|
+5|
+2|
+2|Magnetic Repulsion, Magnetic Attraction, Burrow Speed

8th|
+6|
+6|
+2|
+2|Unstoppable Force, Immovable Object, +1 Str

9th|
+6|
+6|
+3|
+3|Magneto-Kinetic Mastery, Biological Supermagnet, +1 Str[/table]

Skills Points at 1rst Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier) x 4
Skills Points at Each Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier)
Class Skills: The Lodestone Marauder’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Spot (Wis).

Proficiencies: The Lodestone Marauder gains proficiency with its natural weapons, but no other weapons, nor any type of armour.

Lodestone Marauder Class Features: The following are the Class Features of the Lodestone Marauder.

Lodestone Marauder Body: The Lodestone Marauder loses all of its racial traits and becomes a Medium Abberation. It is a quadruped (granting it a +4 bonus to resist trip and bullrush attempts, as well as a larger encumbrance limit than a biped of its size and strength). It cannot speak, but can understand languages it knows (one plus one per point of Int bonus at first level) and can learn to read and write. Its claws lack fine manipulation, but can manipulate metal objects as if they had fine manipulation thanks to its magnetic abilities (companions often invest in a sheet of thin metal to be piched into pictures and letters, or a set of metal quills). It gains a natural armour bonus equal to its Con modifier. It gains a bite attack as a primary natural attack, dealing 1d6+1.5XStr mod damage. A Lodestone Marauder wears barding rather than normal armour, and even barding is priced as for an unusual or exotic creature. It cannot wear standard gloves, helms, shields or robes. It has a base land speed of 30ft and Darkvision 60ft.

Magnetic Defense (Su): Upon reaching 1st level the Lodestone Marauder gains access to a passive magnetic field, granting it a deflection bonus to armour class equal to one-third its HD (minimum 1) against partially or wholly metal-based attacks (e.g. most swords, polearms, etc., as well as many spells from the Wu Jen's Metal element). It also recieves a bonus equal to its HD on saves against electrical spells and abilities.

Spiked Hide (Ex): A Lodestone Marauder learns to utilize the spikes on its body, in much the same way as a warrior in spiked armour. A creature grappling a Lodestone Marauder takes 1d4 points of piercing damage at the beginning of the Marauder's turn. The Lodestone Marauder also adds 1d4 piercing damage to damage dealt by grapple chacks, and deals lethal damage in a grapple in this way. At 4HD, and every 4HD thereafter (8, 12, 16, 20, etc.), the damage die increases by one step as if it were a weapon increasing in size.

Attribute Bonus: A Lodestone Marauder gains bonuses to Strength and Constitution at each level indicated in the table. These bonuses stack, for a total of +5 Str and +2 Con at 9th level.

Lesser Magnetic Repulsion (Su): At 2nd level the Lodestone Marauder learns to create a small burst of magnetic repulsion, leaving its opponents off-balance. As a standard action, a Lodestone Marauder can create a burst of magnetic repulsion within a 10' cone, which extends a further 5' per 2HD of the Lodestone Marauder. Any creature holding a metal weapon or item (including swords and other weapons and items made mostly or entirely of metal, excluding wooden-hafted weapons and items such as polearms), wearing metal armour or which is made of metal must make a Reflex save (DC 10+1/2HD+Con mod) or lose their Dexterity bonus to armour class for 1 round/2HD. A creature holding a metal item or weapon may drop the item to automatically succeed on their save, at which point the item flies to the far edge of the burst's range, dealing 1 damage of an appropriate sort (usually piercing, bludgeoning and/or slashing) to anything in its path. Any unattended metal items (under the Lodestone Marauder's Light Load encumbrance limit) are also sent to the edge of the burst's range.

Lesser Magnetic Attraction (Su): At 2nd level the Lodestone Marauder learns to harness its magnetic powers to drag items towards itself. As a full-round action, a Lodestone Marauder can attract all mostly or wholly metal items (swords, coins and the like count; arrows, polearms and similar items do not) under its Heavy Load encumbrance limit to itself, within a 10ft/HD radius. Unattended items are automatically dragged 5ft/HD toward the Lodestone Marauder, going by the shortest route between the two, possibly being stopped by barriers, even low ones. Creatures holding such items must make a Reflex save (DC 10+1/2HD+Con modifier) or drop them, at which point they are dragged as normal. Creatures wearing such items (or who are made of metal themselves) are unnaffected unless the combined weight of that creature and its metal items fall under the limit, in which case the creature moves 5ft/2HD toward the Lodestone Marauder. Any item which could be moved into the Marauder's space by this movement becomes stuck to its hide, though it can be pulled off with no Strength check necessary as a move action.

Spiny Whirlwind: At 3rd level the Lodestone Marauder learns to spin in a tight circle, slicing nearby enemies to shreds with the spikes on its carapace. As a full-round action, the Lodestone Marauder deals its Spiked Hide damage plus its Strength modifier to all enemies within 5ft of itself. At 7HD, Lesser Magnetic Repulsion or Lesser Magnetic Attraction can be used as part of this action, taking effect before or after the Spiny Whirlwind effect, at the Marauder's choice. At 14HD this works with the Magnetic Repulsion and Magnetic Attraction abilities.

Growth: At 4th level the Lodestone Marauder grows to Large size. Its reach, grapple modifiers, natural attack damage and skills change accordingly, but it doesn't gain any ability score bonuses or penalties.

Magnetic Wrecking: At 4th level the Lodestone Marauder can, as a standard action, deal damage as its bite attack to all metal items on its hide or its reach (including or excluding particular items as it chooses), ignoring 1 point of hardness for every 4HD (no minimum, round down).

Magnetic Crushing Charge: At 5th level, by releasing a forward thrust of magnetism in combination with a charge, a Lodestone Marauder crush its enemy with magnetic force whilst attacking. When the Lodestone Marauder makes a charge, it deals an additional 1d12+Str bludgeoning damage, as long as the charge's target is wearing metal armour or clothing. This additional damage is dealt even on a charge to bullrush, and in this case the opposed Strength check to bullrush recieves a +4 bonus.

Claws: At 6th level the Lodestone Marauder gains two claw attacks as secondary natural attacks, each dealing 1d6 damage at Large size.

Climb Speed: At 6th level the Lodestone Marauder learns to climb effectively, gaining a climb speed of 20ft, as well as the associated +8 racial bonus to Climb checks and the ability to take 10 on Climb checks even if rushed or threatened.

Magnetic Repulsion: At 7th level the Lodestone Marauder learns to master its magnetic repulsion. This ability works as Lesser Magnetic Repulsion, with the following exceptions. The range is 10ft plus 10ft for every HD of the Lodestone Marauder. Any creature failing the save required for holding a metal item drops that item. Any creature failing the save required for wearing metal armour or clothing drops prone onstead of losing their Dex bonus to armour class. Unattended items (and items on the Marauder's hide, at the Lodestone Marauder's option) deal damage as thrown improvised weapons to all in their path (Reflex save of 10+Lodestone Marauder's HD for half damage), instead of 1 damage. Finally, the weight limit for affected items increases to the Marauder's Medium Load.

Magnetic Attraction: At 7th level the Lodestone Marauder masters its magnetic attraction. This ability works as Lesser Magnetic Attraction, with the following exceptions. The action taken is reduced to a standard action and the weight limit is doubled. Creatures holding metal items fall prone if they fail their Reflex save. Unattended items are dragged as close as possible to the Lodestone Marauder, instead of being limited to 5ft per Hit Die. Creatures made of metal or wearing metal armour are treated as unattended items unless they succeed on a Reflex save. Movement caused by this ability provokes attacks of opportunity.

Burrow Speed: At 7th level the Lodestone Marauder learns to dig quickly and effectively, gaining a burrow speed of 20ft. The Lodestone Marauder can dig through loose earth, sand, clay and similar materials, but not packed earth, stone and similarly hard materials. The Marauder leaves a useable tunnel with a diameter equal to its space, which collapses after three rounds, two rounds if disturbed.

Unstoppable Force (Su): At 8th level, as long as the Lodestone Marauder has metal up to 5ft per HD beneath it, the Lodestone Marauder gains a +10 bonus on Climb and Jump checks, as well as to checks made to bullrush or overrun. In addition, they gain a +10 bonus to movement speed, attracting itself to the metal beneath it with each bound to move faster, and ignore difficult terrain, almost floating over the ground with their magnetic powers.

Immovable Object (Su): At 8th level the Lodestone Marauder learns to use its magnetic powers to stay in place. It gains a bonus equal to twice its HD to Balance checks and checks made to resist trip and bullrush attempts, so long as there is metal up to 5ft per HD beneath it.

Magneto-Kinetic Mastery (Su): At 9th level the Lodestone Marauder learns to use its magnetic power to its full potential. They gain Telekinesis at will as a supernatural ability, but they may only move metal items using it. The caster level for this ability is equal to the Lodestone Marauder's hit dice and the Lodestone Marauder uses their Strength modifier where a Wizard would use their Intelligence modifier.

Biological Supermagnet (Su): At 9th level the Lodestone Marauder can have items stuck nigh-immovably to its skin. It can, as a free action, have any metal item within 5ft stick to its skin, or become unstuck. A stuck item requires a full-round action and a Strength check (DC=Lodestone Marauder's Strength score) to remove. A Lodestone Marauder can benefit from a stuck magic item as if it were wearing or wielding it, but the normal rule of one item per slot (two for rings) still applies, so this is most useful for items it could not normally use. Stuck items remain stuck even after the Marauder's death, at which point the DC to remove items becomes 20, regardless of what it was before. Items attracted by Lesser Magnetic Attraction or Magnetic Attraction are now treated as if stuck by Biological Supermagnet.

Comments/Changelog:

Comments
Okay, first draft is done. Lots of active abilities, the class encourages (or should encourage) melee with a focus on battlefield control (nonstandard though it may be). It has lots of things to knock opponents about like ragdolls, provided their magnetic power is strong enough and the opponent has metal items on them. It's quite strong to make up for a lack of speech and fine manipulation, but I hope it should be within reasonable limits.

Magneto-Kinetic Mastery should be fun, lacking a maximum weight limit. You can move almost anything metal with it, given enough time. Note that a 1-round action is different from a full-round action.

Changelog
09/02/11 - A few typos and wordings fixed ("10ft+5ft/HD" to "within a 10' cone, which extends a further 5' per 2HD of the Lodestone Marauder", "5fHD" to "5ft per HD", Lodestone Marauder Body is now in the table, etc.). Magnetic Attraction and Repulsion now read "As Lesser Magnetic X, with the following exceptions, to avoid redundancy. Magnetic Repulsion and its Lesser form now have flying objects deal some damage, and Magnetic Repulsion's effects may have been changed slightly, partially to balance the added damage and partially because I accidentally deleted the ability before making changes to it or copying it for reference. Supermagnet no longer features "permanent". Magnetic Attraction (or more accurately, it's Lesser form) clarifies what happens to items that reach the Marauder. Burrow speed now leaves a usable tunnel, where it previously lacked clarification. Magneto-Kinetic Mastery now requires concentration as a spell, anyone still wearing metal on the cliff edge after not doing anything to the big magnet visibly charging a supermove deserves whatever they get. A bit of text under LM Body added to allow some communication, or at least suggestions for it.
19/02/11 - Clarification on damage dealing in Lesser Magnetic Repulsion. Magneto-Kinetic Mastery changed to at-will, metal-only Telekinesis.



I know the Gargoyle isn't done yet, but I did want to do this anyway. In any case, it is now ready for review.

radmelon
2011-01-29, 06:01 PM
The lack of speech is going to be a problem. May use the Purple Worm's "After a week, body language is comprehensable."

Gorgondantess
2011-01-29, 06:11 PM
Troll looks good! I found a few things that were iffy, but at first glance, nothing was wrong with it.

And as for the lodestone marauder... haven't read it in whole, but I just want to say: F*ckin' Lodestone Marauders, how do they work?

Mystic Muse
2011-01-29, 06:12 PM
Troll looks good! I found a few things that were iffy, but at first glance, nothing was wrong with it.

And as for the lodestone marauder... haven't read it in whole, but I just want to say: F*ckin' Lodestone Marauders, how do they work?

A wizard did it.

ScionoftheVoid
2011-01-29, 06:15 PM
And as for the lodestone marauder... haven't read it in whole, but I just want to say: F*ckin' Lodestone Marauders, how do they work?

May want to censor that all the way, posting rules don't let you censor you're own posts for occasions like this, I imagine. And are you referring just to the meme, or (Lesser) Magnetic Repulsion and Attraction, which are rather wordy and will probably need to be cut down?

Gorgondantess
2011-01-29, 06:30 PM
A wizard did it.

Know thy memes. (http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/fcking-magnets-how-do-they-work)


May want to censor that all the way, posting rules don't let you censor you're own posts for occasions like this, I imagine.

I find it amusing that those who tend to follow the forum rules strictly also tend to ignore the "vigilante moderation" rule.:smalltongue:

Mystic Muse
2011-01-29, 06:32 PM
Know thy memes. (http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/fcking-magnets-how-do-they-work)

Oh, I know the meme. I just thought I'd post another meme as well.

ScionoftheVoid
2011-01-29, 06:39 PM
I find it amusing that those who tend to follow the forum rules strictly also tend to ignore the "vigilante moderation" rule.:smalltongue:

It was just a thought, it seemed to rather defeat the point of a censor in the first place. No word has no vowels, after all (unless it has a "y"), so it's only a matter of guesswork even for the few who don't know it already. Nevertheless, I'd have preferred an answer to my question, really.

Gorgondantess
2011-01-29, 06:44 PM
It was just a thought, it seemed to rather defeat the point of a censor in the first place. No word has no vowels, after all (unless it has a "y"), so it's only a matter of guesswork even for the few who don't know it already. Nevertheless, I'd have preferred an answer to my question, really.

Like I said, haven't read it in full. I'm a little too busy right now to do much more than quote internet memes at people.:smallwink:

Hyudra
2011-01-29, 08:38 PM
Added Vivisector, Razor Boar, Black Dragon, Troll, Lodestone Marauder and I think one or two others to the 'Unfinished Monster' list. Tidied up the Called Monster list.

Just a heads up, guys. My significant other's dad died, which wasn't a surprise and wasn't that sad, given that he's been sick enough for long enough that it's something of a relief for everyone. As a consequence, anyways, I'm going away this week. This might mean I am unable to post at all. Conversely, it might mean I have a lot of time to post, depending on the strength and the availability of the connection where I end up staying. Just letting you know what's up and that I haven't dropped off the face of the Prime Material, just in case.

Psyborg
2011-01-29, 10:50 PM
Speaking as a (very) inexperienced homebrewer, I just want to say that the work that y'all have done here is just amazing. It's even inspired me to consider running a monsters-only campaign at some point. This series of threads is a really incredible resource...so thanks, on behalf of me and my group.

Condolences, Hyuudra. Hope everything goes as smoothly as possible this week.

And I'm rather excited to hear that the Ethergaunt is being redone. Ethergaunts are awesome.

Gorgondantess
2011-01-29, 10:56 PM
And I'm rather excited to hear that the Ethergaunt is being redone. Ethergaunts are awesome.

That will be finished in an... indeterminate amount of time. Might be in a few days, might be in a few months, just depending on... everything, really. Not a first priority, really (though apparently it should be, as everyone seems to want one).

NineThePuma
2011-01-29, 11:18 PM
Wasn't there some sort of "only work on one monster at a time" sort of rule? :smallconfused:

If not, I recommend one.

Hyudra
2011-01-29, 11:52 PM
Wasn't there some sort of "only work on one monster at a time" sort of rule? :smallconfused:

If not, I recommend one.

There was such a rule, some time ago, but it was ignored by the people it was most intended for, and in the current dynamic, with one council member AWOL and another busy, it's not possible to get stuff accepted in any reasonable span of time.

Speaking for myself, I've polished and gone over my previous unfinished monsters as much as I can, in good conscience, and deem them complete for most intents and purposes. Basilisk and Manticore have been reviewed by people in the know, altered to address the reviewers' concerns and I suspect they're awaiting a small few minor changes and a thumbs up before their inclusion on the list. Storm giant, as I see it, needs more critiques but is largely unfinished.

Further, the thread was stagnating somewhat, with the aforementioned difficulties with council members and the restriction on waiting until your monster was accepted. The influx of new monsters, while adding to the size of the unfinished list, has helped spur discussion and creative input. Which is good.

Regardless, the main concern for the rule was to not have people posting new monsters & forgetting about their unfinished ones. While I can't speak for others, I can assure you I've not forgotten about my monsters.

Hyudra
2011-01-29, 11:58 PM
-- Time Warp --

Speaking of which: first five people to post and ask for a critique on their monsters that's more than a week old get my critique. I want to do some critiquing, but I don't want to waste time and energy on anything that's been abandoned.

Seeking critique on your choice of Storm Giant or Basilisk. The latter has been critiqued, but is more finished and could get a potentially final look & inclusion to the list. The former is largely uncritiqued, but a little more comprehensive. Your call.

With Gorgondantess' assent, Manticore has been added to the finished list. May your tail spikes strike true.

Gorgondantess
2011-01-30, 12:00 AM
Speaking of which: first five people to post and ask for a critique on their monsters that's more than a week old get my critique. I want to do some critiquing, but I don't want to waste time and energy on anything that's been abandoned.

The Winter King
2011-01-30, 12:08 AM
Okay some big changes made
Jovoc
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9955384&postcount=425

I want to make some changes to my spellweaver(http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9262850&postcount=196) as I feel it might be out of date with the current feeling of the project, any suggestions

Hyudra
2011-01-30, 12:25 AM
Winter King, please don't repost your monsters. It is much preferred that you link back to the original post, as things get confusing if you just repost it, while there's links & stuff (such as in the posts at the start of the thread) to what then becomes outdated material. We've had much confusion in the past, because of this.

Further, it's messy, as your monster images increase page load times. Imagine the clutter if everyone was doing it.

The Winter King
2011-01-30, 12:28 AM
Sorry. Wont happen again boss.

Gorgondantess
2011-01-30, 12:30 AM
Sorry. Wont happen again boss.

Probably best to just edit what you have there into your original monster post and then replace the whole shebang with a link.
Also:

Jovoc:
No maneuvers on non-initiating classes! It's like giving caster levels to a class that doesn't have them. It's also like laziness. Give actual class abilities as opposed to premade ones. ToB already has excellent multiclassing options, and those that want maneuvers can get some superb always useful maneuvers with a 1 level dip, or can just play a class that already uses maneuvers (i.e. reth dekala/valkyrie).
Also, no using homebrew. Just as a rule. That's for the other thread.
Retributive Aura is again quite abusable. I can imagine a Jovoc grabbing leadership & a cohort who is capable of dealing 1 damage dozens of times per round and using that to attack him & annihilate his enemies.

Basilisk:
Hmmm. Stone eye is looking much, much better.
Tail Smash... again, I can't see anyone using it too much. It's just not very effective- something like, eh, 12 damage per round, as a full round action provoking AoOs? Essentially only useful for bashing apart petrified enemies, and even then not much. Why not reduce the damage a little, and say it pierces hardness? It just seems like a little nicer way of putting things. But I'll not make a big deal about it.
I'm loving Geomorphic Gaze. It's seeming less like a battle option and more of a battle preparation option- a bunch of cool little utility abilities... and then finally a few actually decent battle abilities. It's not very powerful, but it's fun and versatile, and that's all that matters.
I'd still like an abyssal greater basilisk. I mean, really, why not? People are going to want it, it would add another cool variety, and it would require next to no effort.
Torpid Nature is quite powerful, essentially making it immune to 1-round save or sucks.
Granite Gaze is quite powerful. Dazing would be more balanced.
Lithic Stare... probably best for a full-round action to break free. Or something like that. State it, anyways. It's a little less powerful, eh.

The Winter King
2011-01-30, 01:12 AM
Okay I believe I have fixed the jovoc good this time. I am sorry if I seemed lazy or condescending. The jovoc can now no longer exclude the creature dealing the damage and has an actual class feature at level four. Link is in my above post.

How about the spell weaver? It is one of my favorite creatures but I dont think I did it justice.

Benly
2011-01-30, 01:17 AM
What first strikes me about Pseudonatural Creature as written is that you can take it at first or second level depending on how you interpret order of operations in character creation (human with Aberration Blood and Willing Deformity: Madness, with Aberration Blood representing Far Realm ancestry.) This makes for an extremely powerful character for the first several levels at least, probably excessively so for the first few, since the class seems to be balanced around taking it at sixth level or so.

Gorgondantess
2011-01-30, 01:18 AM
Locathah

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080131000603/forgottenrealms/images/5/56/Locathah.jpg

HD: D10
{table]Level|Bab|Fort|Ref|Will|Feature
1|+ 0|+2|+2|+2 |Fishman Body, Spear Warrior, Watersense, +1 Dex, +1 Wis
[/table]
Skills: 4+int modifier, quadruple at 1st level. Class skills are Craft (any), Escape Artist, Hide, Knowledge (Dungeoneering), Knowledge (Nature), Listen, Move Silently, Search, Spot, Survival, Swim.

Proficiencies: The Locathah is proficient in simple weapons, all non-exotic polearms and light armor.

Fishman Body: The Locathah loses all other racial bonuses and gains humanoid traits with the aquatic subtype, a land speed of 20 feet, a swim speed of 40 feet (+10 feet at 3 HD and every 3 HD thereafter) and natural armor equal to its constitution modifier.

Spear Warrior: Most Locathah are quite adept with spears of all sorts, being one of the few effective underwater hunting weapons. When wielding a spear, or any other polearm the Locathah is proficient with that only deals piercing damage, the Locathah may choose to add its wisdom bonus to attacks & damage.
Finally, when attacking as a part of a standard action (or otherwise making a single attack), the Locathah may choose to either increase the reach of its polearm by 5 feet or decrease the reach by 5 feet. At 8 HD, this reach increases to up to 10 feet, and at 16 HD it increases to 15 feet.

Watersense: The Locathah gains tremorsense out to 10', but only against creatures within the same body of water as the Locathah, be it a puddle or an ocean. This increases by 5' at 4 HD and every 4 HD thereafter.

Ability score increases: The Locathah gains a +1 bonus to dexterity and wisdom at 1st level.

Comments:
Why not?

Gorgondantess
2011-01-30, 01:20 AM
What first strikes me about Pseudonatural Creature as written is that you can take it at first or second level depending on how you interpret order of operations in character creation (human with Aberration Blood and Willing Deformity: Madness, with Aberration Blood representing Far Realm ancestry.) This makes for an extremely powerful character for the first several levels at least, probably excessively so for the first few, since the class seems to be balanced around taking it at sixth level or so.

Bad oversight. Fixed.

Benly
2011-01-30, 01:33 AM
Bad oversight. Fixed.

Aw, and here I was half looking forward to trying to sell my DM on letting me play one.

What is "5th level spellcasting in any caster class"? As far as I know the correct terms for normal class-prerequisite writing would be "caster level 5 in any spellcasting class", "ability to cast fifth-level spells", or "five levels in any spellcasting class" depending on which one of those you mean. As it is, you could mean any of those. Is this a difference of terminology in this thread? (Sorry, I only pay attention to the monster class threads intermittently.)

Gorgondantess
2011-01-30, 01:34 AM
Aw, and here I was half looking forward to trying to sell my DM on letting me play one.

What is "5th level spellcasting in any caster class"? As far as I know the correct terms for normal class-prerequisite writing would be "caster level 5 in any spellcasting class", "ability to cast fifth-level spells", or "five levels in any spellcasting class" depending on which one of those you mean. As it is, you could mean any of those. Is this a difference of terminology in this thread? (Sorry, I only pay attention to the monster class threads intermittently.)

Edited, yo.

Benly
2011-01-30, 01:41 AM
Edited, yo.

Actually, even though I suggested that wording it only now occurs to me: can a class with caster level but no spells (invocation classes or artificers) qualify?

I'm reasonably certain there's still some way to qualify for this class by level 3 or 4 regardless, just trying to hammer out all possible issues.

Tacitus
2011-01-30, 01:49 AM
Requiring CL 5, Monster Class Levels of 5, or Knowledge ranks of 9 means that 5 is indeed the earliest you can get in. You choose one of those prerequisites and then two from the second list. One of easiest (though not earliest) I can think of off the top of my head is probably Marrutact 5/Wizard 1. CL 5, Monster Levels of 5, and +3 base will. Its also incredibly amusing. XD I might have to try it now...

Hyudra
2011-01-30, 01:49 AM
Pseudonatural Creature

Please don't use color in creature names/monster titles/ability names/ability text. You used purple for 'Pseudonatural Creature' and it bugs me.
Prerequisites:
Let it be said, I'm picky on prereqs.
They're a little boring. I see prerequisites as the first dose of flavor you & your gaming group gets at the table, for the particular prestige monster class.
They're also a little too easy, which makes Pseudonatural creatures more common and mundane as a result, which is a shame as it stands to be an interesting characterization element.
I think the 'descendant of a creature of the far realms' is a bit too easy to enter.
I see a Griffon with 5HD, a line of dialogue in the griffon's backstory and a base will save of +3 suddenly becoming this bizarre, outlandish creature. Doesn't compute, really.
The list could use some nicer formatting, as it looks kinda ugly as is, no offense. I've picked on others for the allcaps OR, before, and you could italicize or bold (the latter of which is my preference) 'Prerequisites' to make it stand out.
All good saves is a tad much.
Class Skills:
Minor format nitpick - you've got Class Skills and 'skill points at each level' standing out in bold with increased size and whatnot, but for the rest of the creature entry, you're using italics to make stuff stand out (which isn't as nice looking IMHO).
Sleight of Hand seems out of place on the list.
I fear, going into this, seeing the picture, noting Sleight of Hand, that we have different ideas of what constitutes a Pseudonatural creature, though. I'm envisioning the creatures the Alienist has at her disposal, the Griffon that looks like it's melting, and the small handful of pseudonatural creatures detailed in Dungeon magazine.
Far Realms Touched:
What if it already had aberration type?
Warp:
Warp is perhaps a bit too much like Eldritch Blast for my liking.
Invocations:
You refer to warlocks channeling the power of hell. Not sure I like this as, IIRC, only hellfire warlocks explicitly channel such. Other warlocks, by fluff, may be channeling any supernatural elements, be it Faerie, Vestige or Infernal.
Paralleling the Warlock perhaps a bit too much, here. While I haven't studied the invocations themselves, it's hard to get truly excited about the class having read thus far, feeling like I'm retreading old ground.
Lesser Alternate Form:
This is more like it.
Enemies take a -1 morale penalty to attacks against the Pseudo for every point of its charisma modifier: I take it this is a mental or fear based effect? Should be stressed.
Tentacles are good fun, but do you lose your normal attacks? I fear we could see Dragons with 2 claw, bite, 2 wing, tail and 6 tentacle attacks.
Are the tentacle attacks natural attacks? Primary or secondary?
Can it change back to a regular form? Worth stating.
Warp Augmentation:
I'd replace any & all mentions of Eldritch with something else, if you're attempting to disassociate from the Warlock. Aberrant?
Wording under Reality Tearing Warp is kinda awkward. I stress, via. bold: "Reality Tearing Warp: The Pseudonatural Creature may make enemies struck by Warp to make a will save or be shaken for the rest of the encounter, or make a fortitude save or be sickened for 3 rounds, or make a reflex save or have their movement speed halved for 3 rounds."
Ditto for Greater Reality Tearing Warp.
And Eldritch Reality Tearing Warp.
Eldritch Reality Tearing Warp - the prone version is far, far better than the alternatives, as you're targeting a typically weak save (at the levels you're getting this & thereafter)
I really dislike knock prone as an easily applied condition. It's rather potent as far as action economy goes, and in this scenario, you're getting it via. a not too difficult touch attack (most touch ACs are abysmal) and reflex save (Reflex is typically the weakest save enemies will have). For your trouble, you can consistently keep enemies from approaching you, while doing decent damage. You can get the knock prone condition as early as 12th level, and effectively lock enemies down with minimal effort or risk. Would you, as a tier 2-3 character, be able to deal if I pit you against a Pseudonatural creature using this from 45' away?
Greater Alternate Form:
Dunno if i like the improved grab coupled with a potential six tentacles & whatever you're packing from your base form. Say I'm a level 20 gibbering mouther. 6 tentacles & my natural grabs... nothing's going to escape being pulled into my toothy little ooze self, short of a freedom of movement.
Channeling:
"This effect cannot be ended voluntarily- it will run its course, and the Pseudonatural Creature will suffer the backlash." - I find this doesn't read like proper ability description. Reword? "This ability burn cannot be prevented in any way, and no ability or condition imposed by the Pseudonatural Creature or her allies can end the effect early."
Far Realms Apotheosis:
"whichever one is more beneficial at the type," - you mean time.
"Finally, at 20 HD, the Pseudonatural Creature gains an additional +1d6 to warp damage." seems out of place.
Least Invocations:
Could use some formatting to make it less 'mini walls of plain textish'.
Also needs explanations for what the individual entries are. Duration: 1d4 rounds is superior to a random '1d4 rounds' in the middle of the invocation entry.
Implexsion:
"in the remaining pieces an amount of diamond dust of value equal to one half the original obect's gp can be collected." - wording is awkward.
Can I not just use this against a cursed item over & over until it fails the save & goes away, sparing my party the hassle?
I foresee shenanigans as far as players finding ways to collect obscene amounts of gold, somehow.
Dread Curse of A*******:
Don't like the name.
Seems a bit clumsy for use alongside one's party members.
Many voiced:
Bonuses from abilities should be even, as a general rule. +7 is obscure and awkward as numbers go.
Some Things Man was Not Meant to Know:
Kinda boring, potentially problematic with knowledge devotion.
Overall, something of a lack of combat-usable invocations, here.
Lesser Invocations:
Twitch:
You're giving a plethora of 24 hour bonuses, which I'm not sure I like. This redoubles on my general stance against too many passive abilities.
I do like that you can discharge it & lose the effect, but I shy away from messing with the action economy overmuch. For a caster, this is another spell at the outset of combat with the fatigued penalty not being overly problematic.
The numbers are a tad high, as I see it. Could stand to be toned down.
The fatigue is kind of weird alongside the 10' bonus movement. You have 30' speed, are fatigued and get +10' bonus move... does that leave you with 25' or 20' movement?
Rereading it, I don't like that you can gain a standard action at any time, as a free action.
The "10 movement" should be "10' movement".
Realigned Gravity:
Pretty interesting.
Summon Lesser Warp Elemental:
Where's the warp elemental class?
"with levels equal to 3/4 her HD." - a bit awkward. Levels are generally reserved for PC classes. HD?
"The Pseudonatural Creature instantly loses Xd6 hp, where X is the Warp Elemental's HD, and xp equal to 1000 times its HD. She may then re-summon it as normal." - needs rewording. Algebra is generally discouraged in ability entries. Perhaps: "The Pseudonatural creature loses 1d6 hp and 1000 xp for every HD it has."
Shadowy Tentacles:
"The Pseudonatural Creature infuses the shadows in a 20 foot radius spread with Far Realms stuff-" - stuff seems out of place. "with the energies of the Far Realms", perhaps?
"Improved Dread Curse of A*******:
Should state it requires Dread Curse of A.
Who or what is this Dread Prince? Needs background fluff if you're going to stick fluff in there.
A touch underwhelming.
Greater Invocations:
Ego Explosion:
Makes me think of Psionics, from the name.
You could rename it "Way for a level 11 PC to screw up epic level deities", if you wished.
If my previous point wasn't clear - there's some balance issues here with the potential vs. high CR targets.
Y'Nachtal's Wail:
Hazardous to fellow party members.
A tad too powerful considering you can fire it off every round, you're covering pretty much half the battlefield, dealing damage and taking enemies out of combat.
Summon Greater Warp Elemental:
Where are stats for greater warp elemental?
Flash Implexion:
Dunno if I like the immediate action item destruction. Consider that, by some readings (Say, the people who do PvP in D&D) you'd be able to do an immediate action Impexion vs. the weapon an enemy is currently swinging at you, destroying it before the attack is successfully resolved.
Eldritch Tentacles:
See previous points for my complaints over use of word eldritch.
So at 11th level you've potentially got an area of effect 'save or be erased from reality'. Perhaps a tad much?
Eldritch Invocations:
Subjective Reality:
Um. Again, perhaps a bit much. Consider that you can pump your will save relatively easily, while you're targeting enemies in a way they've got no way to defend against. Where I can add only a +1 to the DC of a monster ability with a feat, I can add +2 to the 'attack' save with Iron Will, while simultaneously gaining a concrete benefit.
You're also adding a boatload of versatility to the class, by way of adding two complete schools of arcane magic to the repertoire. And you can use these all day, every day. Greater Mage armor? You got it. Summon monster (whatever), you got it.
Portal Rend:
Theoretically speaking, what happens if I, as a Pseudonatural creature, create a vortex, then on my following turn, set down another just outside the radius, so they overlap?
You're adding yet another 'save or be obliterated beyond recovery' to the Pseudonatural Creature, with sizeable bonuses. There's nothing enemies can do to stop you from setting one down right on top of them, and once that happens, they're effectively immobilized - they have to make strength checks to be able to move 5', while you and the rest of your party can blast them, safely out of range.
Summon True Warp Elemental:
Stats?
"cannot be pierced by anything short of the gods." - elaborate/clarify?
True Dread Curse of A*******:
Eh. Another save or lose, with a dash of 'character is ruined forever'.
Overall... concerns that it's too powerful at several points in the advancement. How would you feel as a standard Tier 2 or 3 PC (Beguiler, Swordsage, etc), if I was setting you against a Pseudonatural Creature BBEG, that was setting down vortexes or pitting you against 'save or reroll a new character' effects?
More than that, to be brutally honest, I feel you've diverged considerably from the fluff and flavor of the Pseudonatural creature as it is described in the official material. That isn't to say you've done a bad job, but nonetheless, I can't take the official material and swap it out for your stuff without a serious shift of tone and flavor. For example, if I'm a PC Alienist who's summoning Pseudonatural things, I'm no longer summoning twisted flesh beasts with tentacles and maddening images... I'm summoning warlocks with the ability to become flesh beasts.
Which leads me to my final statement: I don't think it's fitting as a Pseudonatural creature... but I do think that with some minor alterations and an overhaul in terms of balance, it would make a great Alienist base class.

Benly
2011-01-30, 02:05 AM
Requiring CL 5, Monster Class Levels of 5, or Knowledge ranks of 9 means that 5 is indeed the earliest you can get in. You choose one of those prerequisites and then two from the second list. One of easiest (though not earliest) I can think of off the top of my head is probably Marrutact 5/Wizard 1. CL 5, Monster Levels of 5, and +3 base will. Its also incredibly amusing. XD I might have to try it now...

The easiest entry is any race, five levels of any spellcasting class with K: Dungeoneering on its list (wizard is the easiest), and character backstory of being descended from a Whately. You don't even need to spend a feat that way. Marrutact business is sort of excessively complicating matters.

However, that's the easiest entry, not the earliest. The thing is, there are a lot of ways to boost your caster level with varying levels of cheese and nitpickiness, and you can get your CL above your ECL in a variety of ways (although most of them are hard to pull off early enough to make this worth it). Normally that wouldn't be a problem, except that this is a catch-up class - it's designed to give you level-appropriate abilities no matter what you came in with, so if there are ways to get into it early, they will give you level-inappropriate abilities.

Edit: While I'm at it, why 9 ranks for Knowledge? That puts its entry at level 7 while the other routes enter at level 6. It just seems weird.

Gorgondantess
2011-01-30, 02:33 AM
Please don't use color in creature names/monster titles/ability names/ability text. You used purple for 'Pseudonatural Creature' and it bugs me.
Can chance.


Let it be said, I'm picky on prereqs.
They're a little boring. I see prerequisites as the first dose of flavor you & your gaming group gets at the table, for the particular prestige monster class.
I prefer to keep flavor and mechanics at opposite- and equally important- ends of the table, with only a little meshing. I hate it when my rules lawyer DM doesn't let me take cool PrC X because I don't have the warhammer of gillhalloo because it doesn't exist in his campaign world.

They're also a little too easy, which makes Pseudonatural creatures more common and mundane as a result, which is a shame as it stands to be an interesting characterization element.
True. Sortof. It's a lot to tackle, though.

I think the 'descendant of a creature of the far realms' is a bit too easy to enter.
Meh, alright.

I see a Griffon with 5HD, a line of dialogue in the griffon's backstory and a base will save of +3 suddenly becoming this bizarre, outlandish creature. Doesn't compute, really.
Why not? The player can make it compute. That's kindof the point I was making above- there's often good reasons for taking PrC X, but sometimes it just doesn't fit your mechanics and thus you're losing a cool character concept.

All good saves is a tad much.
Probably.


Sleight of Hand seems out of place on the list.
Sleight of hand can used for disguising spellcasting. I thought it might be appropriate.

I fear, going into this, seeing the picture, noting Sleight of Hand, that we have different ideas of what constitutes a Pseudonatural creature, though. I'm envisioning the creatures the Alienist has at her disposal, the Griffon that looks like it's melting, and the small handful of pseudonatural creatures detailed in Dungeon magazine.
I'm envisioning either the alienist OR (yeah, allcaps or, take that:smalltongue:) the creature she has at her disposal. Remember that the alienist, at 10th level, becomes a pseudonatural creature. The alternate form allows for either/or, really. You can be a mass of tentacles, or your aberrant taint can be kept... more internal.

What if it already had aberration type?
...Then it becomes an aberration, changing nothing?


Warp is perhaps a bit too much like Eldritch Blast for my liking.
Eldritch Blast is a little too much like warp for my liking.:smalltongue:
Seriously, though. I came up with warp irrelevant to eldritch blast, and they just kindof ended up the same.
Invocations:

You refer to warlocks channeling the power of hell. Not sure I like this as, IIRC, only hellfire warlocks explicitly channel such. Other warlocks, by fluff, may be channeling any supernatural elements, be it Faerie, Vestige or Infernal.
Fine, fine, I can change it.

Paralleling the Warlock perhaps a bit too much, here. While I haven't studied the invocations themselves, it's hard to get truly excited about the class having read thus far, feeling like I'm retreading old ground.
Well, this isn't a book I'm trying to sell here. I want to make a good class, not have people want to buy it after reading the 1st page.
Lesser Alternate Form:

This is more like it.
Enemies take a -1 morale penalty to attacks against the Pseudo for every point of its charisma modifier: I take it this is a mental or fear based effect? Should be stressed.
Tentacles are good fun, but do you lose your normal attacks? I fear we could see Dragons with 2 claw, bite, 2 wing, tail and 6 tentacle attacks.
Are the tentacle attacks natural attacks? Primary or secondary?
Can it change back to a regular form? Worth stating.
Honestly, I pretty much just copied it exact from the actual PC. But all valid points.

I'd replace any & all mentions of Eldritch with something else, if you're attempting to disassociate from the Warlock. Aberrant?
Again: warlock is too much like pseudonatural creature, not the other way around. Eldritch doesn't mean "hellspawn", it means ancient and mysterious and evil.:smallyuk:

Wording under Reality Tearing Warp is kinda awkward. I stress, via. bold: "Reality Tearing Warp: The Pseudonatural Creature may make enemies struck by Warp to make a will save or be shaken for the rest of the encounter, or make a fortitude save or be sickened for 3 rounds, or make a reflex save or have their movement speed halved for 3 rounds."
Ditto for Greater Reality Tearing Warp.
And Eldritch Reality Tearing Warp.
Can change.

Eldritch Reality Tearing Warp - the prone version is far, far better than the alternatives, as you're targeting a typically weak save (at the levels you're getting this & thereafter)
...But the alternatives do far, far more!

I really dislike knock prone as an easily applied condition. It's rather potent as far as action economy goes, and in this scenario, you're getting it via. a not too difficult touch attack (most touch ACs are abysmal) and reflex save (Reflex is typically the weakest save enemies will have). For your trouble, you can consistently keep enemies from approaching you, while doing decent damage. You can get the knock prone condition as early as 12th level, and effectively lock enemies down with minimal effort or risk. Would you, as a tier 2-3 character, be able to deal if I pit you against a Pseudonatural creature using this from 45' away?
Eh, I donno. I'll point you to the greater thunderclap spell, which has "reflex save or knocked prone" Or, better yet, might I point you to grease? It doesn't require a RTA, and can affect multiple creatures.

Dunno if i like the improved grab coupled with a potential six tentacles & whatever you're packing from your base form. Say I'm a level 20 gibbering mouther. 6 tentacles & my natural grabs... nothing's going to escape being pulled into my toothy little ooze self, short of a freedom of movement.
Hmmm... possibly. I'll consider changing that.
Channeling:

"This effect cannot be ended voluntarily- it will run its course, and the Pseudonatural Creature will suffer the backlash." - I find this doesn't read like proper ability description. Reword? "This ability burn cannot be prevented in any way, and no ability or condition imposed by the Pseudonatural Creature or her allies can end the effect early."
'Kay.

Far Realms Apotheosis:
"whichever one is more beneficial at the type," - you mean time.
"Finally, at 20 HD, the Pseudonatural Creature gains an additional +1d6 to warp damage." seems out of place.
Just trying to pad out the warp damage.

Least Invocations:
[list] Could use some formatting to make it less 'mini walls of plain textish'.
But I don't like formatting... I'm bad at it.:smallfrown:

Also needs explanations for what the individual entries are. Duration: 1d4 rounds is superior to a random '1d4 rounds' in the middle of the invocation entry.
'Kay.

Implexsion:
"in the remaining pieces an amount of diamond dust of value equal to one half the original obect's gp can be collected." - wording is awkward.
Can I not just use this against a cursed item over & over until it fails the save & goes away, sparing my party the hassle?
Sure, why not? You can also just have the 3rd level warblade hireling use mountain hammer strike on it over and over until it breaks.

I foresee shenanigans as far as players finding ways to collect obscene amounts of gold, somehow.
True... I just wanted it to be usable, so people wouldn't be like "No! Don't destroy the BBEG's enchanted sword! That thing has at least a +4 enchantment on it!

Dread Curse of A*******:
Don't like the name.
Seems a bit clumsy for use alongside one's party members.
Ripped it straight from the CoC RPG. The name stays.:smallamused:

Many voiced:
Bonuses from abilities should be even, as a general rule. +7 is obscure and awkward as numbers go.
Why?

Some Things Man was Not Meant to Know:
[ Kinda boring, potentially problematic with knowledge devotion.
Overall, something of a lack of combat-usable invocations, here.
Maybe...

Lesser Invocations:
[ Twitch:
You're giving a plethora of 24 hour bonuses, which I'm not sure I like. This redoubles on my general stance against too many passive abilities.
Well... why not? They're mostly minor.

I do like that you can discharge it & lose the effect, but I shy away from messing with the action economy overmuch. For a caster, this is another spell at the outset of combat with the fatigued penalty not being overly problematic.
The numbers are a tad high, as I see it. Could stand to be toned down.
The fatigue is kind of weird alongside the 10' bonus movement. You have 30' speed, are fatigued and get +10' bonus move... does that leave you with 25' or 20' movement?
Rereading it, I don't like that you can gain a standard action at any time, as a free action.
The "10 movement" should be "10' movement".
Fatigued doesn't reduce speed. Also, I think you should reread it: to gain the extra standard action, you lose all of its benefits and become exhausted for 24 hours, not to use it again until it wears off. Pretty damaging.


Summon Lesser Warp Elemental:
Where's the warp elemental class?
"with levels equal to 3/4 her HD." - a bit awkward. Levels are generally reserved for PC classes. HD?
"The Pseudonatural Creature instantly loses Xd6 hp, where X is the Warp Elemental's HD, and xp equal to 1000 times its HD. She may then re-summon it as normal." - needs rewording. Algebra is generally discouraged in ability entries. Perhaps: "The Pseudonatural creature loses 1d6 hp and 1000 xp for every HD it has."
Read the comments. Rewording, fine.

"Improved Dread Curse of A*******:
Should state it requires Dread Curse of A.
It's an advancement invocation. Read the first few sentences in the spoiler.

Who or what is this Dread Prince? Needs background fluff if you're going to stick fluff in there.
No, it doesn't. It's a far realms entity. Best not to talk too much about it, 'lest people start losing their heads.


Greater Invocations:
Ego Explosion:
Makes me think of Psionics, from the name.
You could rename it "Way for a level 11 PC to screw up epic level deities", if you wished.
If my previous point wasn't clear - there's some balance issues here with the potential vs. high CR targets.
True. I'll consider that.

Y'Nachtal's Wail:
Hazardous to fellow party members.
A tad too powerful considering you can fire it off every round, you're covering pretty much half the battlefield, dealing damage and taking enemies out of combat.
Right. Kinda made that one at the last minute.

Flash Implexion:
[list] Dunno if I like the immediate action item destruction. Consider that, by some readings (Say, the people who do PvP in D&D) you'd be able to do an immediate action Impexion vs. the weapon an enemy is currently swinging at you, destroying it before the attack is successfully resolved.
That's the whole point. Magic items get saving throws, though, so it's cool.

Eldritch Tentacles:
So at 11th level you've potentially got an area of effect 'save or be erased from reality'. Perhaps a tad much?
Ugh. Needs rewording.

Eldritch Invocations:
Subjective Reality:
Um. Again, perhaps a bit much. Consider that you can pump your will save relatively easily, while you're targeting enemies in a way they've got no way to defend against. Where I can add only a +1 to the DC of a monster ability with a feat, I can add +2 to the 'attack' save with Iron Will, while simultaneously gaining a concrete benefit.
You're also adding a boatload of versatility to the class, by way of adding two complete schools of arcane magic to the repertoire. And you can use these all day, every day. Greater Mage armor? You got it. Summon monster (whatever), you got it.
Perhaps. I think I'll break it into 2 invocations.
And, yes, they do have a way to defend against it. Sortof. You're just switching around the saves and the DCs.:smalltongue:
Anyways, I'll up the DC, though.

Portal Rend:
Theoretically speaking, what happens if I, as a Pseudonatural creature, create a vortex, then on my following turn, set down another just outside the radius, so they overlap?
You're adding yet another 'save or be obliterated beyond recovery' to the Pseudonatural Creature, with sizeable bonuses. There's nothing enemies can do to stop you from setting one down right on top of them, and once that happens, they're effectively immobilized - they have to make strength checks to be able to move 5', while you and the rest of your party can blast them, safely out of range.
Whoops, forgot to state that only one can be in existence at a time.
Summon True Warp Elemental:
Stats?
"cannot be pierced by anything short of the gods." - elaborate/clarify?

True Dread Curse of A*******:
Eh. Another save or lose, with a dash of 'character is ruined forever'.
"Character ruined forever"? You do realize that insanity is a condition? One that can easily be removed with a 6th level cleric spell?

Overall... concerns that it's too powerful at several points in the advancement. How would you feel as a standard Tier 2 or 3 PC (Beguiler, Swordsage, etc), if I was setting you against a Pseudonatural Creature BBEG, that was setting down vortexes or pitting you against 'save or reroll a new character' effects?
Heheh. Consider this: Subjective Reality & the vortex spell are gained when most other classes are gaining 9th level spells. This is a caster class. I'd peg it at tier 2 or 3. When it came to the Eldritch level invocations, I went more for "cool" than "balanced".

More than that, to be brutally honest, I feel you've diverged considerably from the fluff and flavor of the Pseudonatural creature as it is described in the official material. That isn't to say you've done a bad job, but nonetheless, I can't take the official material and swap it out for your stuff without a serious shift of tone and flavor. For example, if I'm a PC Alienist who's summoning Pseudonatural things, I'm no longer summoning twisted flesh beasts with tentacles and maddening images... I'm summoning warlocks with the ability to become flesh beasts.
I was more going for "let's be Nyarlathotep lol" kinds of stuff. Rather than drawing inspiration from D&D, which made the Pseudonatural Creature just a glorified beatstick, I drew inspiration from Lovecraft. Pseudonatural Creatures don't maul you. That's just pathetic. They say a single word and render you bat**** insane, or they send you to a dark corner of the universe to spend the rest of your years.

Which leads me to my final statement: I don't think it's fitting as a Pseudonatural creature... but I do think that with some minor alterations and an overhaul in terms of balance, it would make a great Alienist base class.
I'll say that I did make this with the philosophy of "put as much into it as possible, then start paring away to bring it back down to balanced".

Mystic Muse
2011-01-30, 02:53 AM
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10245497&postcount=146


These have yet to be addressed. While I would like Hyudra to elaborate on some things, if anybody can make some critiques on Illurien, please do so. I want this thing finished.

Hyudra
2011-01-30, 03:19 AM
Again: warlock is too much like pseudonatural creature, not the other way around. Eldritch doesn't mean "hellspawn", it means ancient and mysterious and evil.:smallyuk:

Eldritch: Suggesting the operation of supernatural influences; "an eldritch screech"; "the three weird sisters"; "stumps...had uncanny shapes as of monstrous creatures"- John Galsworthy; "an unearthly light"; "he could hear the unearthly scream of some curlew piercing the din"- Henry Kingsley

The reason Eldritch refers to warlock abilities as much as it does is that it encompasses a broad variety of supernatural effects, be it astrological, faerie, infernal, far realm or simply a variant of arcane magic. In terms of linguistics and etymology, it's the same as saying 'supernatural ______." So using it to refer to Pseudonatural abilities is just a tad broad and unspecific when you could be more on target & unique. It also leads to confusion if and when you're multiclassing between Warlock and Pseudonatural Creature. I hold to the notion that abilities can and should be renamed for the sake of clarity and flavor.


Eh, I donno. I'll point you to the greater thunderclap spell, which has "reflex save or knocked prone" Or, better yet, might I point you to grease? It doesn't require a RTA, and can affect multiple creatures.

But if we're talking about spells, we're talking about limited uses per day, pretty much. A better parallel would be Trip, whcih can also be used all day, every day, and your prone condition, here, is easier, safer and more reliable to apply than trip.


Just trying to pad out the warp damage.

Aye, but it just feels out of place. It's a random line of text offering a benefit at a distant point in the character development, with nothing leading up to it or supporting it within the text. An orphaned bonus.


True... I just wanted it to be usable, so people wouldn't be like "No! Don't destroy the BBEG's enchanted sword! That thing has at least a +4 enchantment on it!

That's a good point and good line of thinking. Perhaps the benefit only extends to magical items that fail their save?


Why?

Because that's standardized class creation as outlined and stressed in official "How to create a class" and "How to create a monster" material.


Fatigued doesn't reduce speed. Also, I think you should reread it: to gain the extra standard action, you lose all of its benefits and become exhausted for 24 hours, not to use it again until it wears off. Pretty damaging.

My bad on the reduced speed, though that does make me raise a further eyebrow at the size, versatility and breadth of the bonuses. Did a ctrl-f to find 'fatigued' in the SRD and the first place it took me was the exhausted condition. Even so, getting extra actions tends to be broken or easily breakable, and like I said, I shy away from such.

In any event, you've got bonus init so you're liable to win initiative, and for that pivotal encounter of the day, you can open up with two standard actions. You're a caster, so the drawback isn't that bad, and forcing two save or lose effects on the enemy caster before they even get a turn is a considerable advantage. As a pseudo-caster yourself, the drawbacks of exhaustion are fairly minor - a -3 to AC and lowered reflex saves.


It's an advancement invocation. Read the first few sentences in the spoiler.

I know it's an advancement invocation, but it should be stated for clarity and neatness' sake anyways.


No, it doesn't. It's a far realms entity. Best not to talk too much about it, 'lest people start losing their heads.

Meh. Lots of orphaned flavor text makes for less suspension of disbelief and more mild annoyance on the part of the player/DM/class reviewers. :smallconfused:


And, yes, they do have a way to defend against it. Sortof. You're just switching around the saves and the DCs.:smalltongue:
Anyways, I'll up the DC, though.

Surely you mean you'll down the DC?

My main complaint, anyways, is that people will naturally take steps to raise their saves, but only certain characters will focus on emphasizing their mental attack stats. Items, spells and skills will also make it easier to raise your defensive measures than offensive. Go up against a Mature Adult Red Dragon at level 18 and you can (with a proper build and a few buffs) have a will save somewhere in the neighborhood of +33 (+11 base, +6 from core stats, +4 from cloak of resistance, +5 from periapt of Iron Will, +1 luckstone, +2 from Iron Will feat, +2 from Protection from Evil, +2 from Owl's Wisdom) trying to best a DC 26 effect. You'd erase the Red Dragon from existence, virtually guaranteed. Since you're not having to debuff the cloud giant, either, you can rinse and repeat for as long as the buffs last. And hey, why not make your entry class for Pseudonatural creature a cleric with luck domain? Should your huge will save fail you, you can always reroll it.


"Character ruined forever"? You do realize that insanity is a condition? One that can easily be removed with a 6th level cleric spell?

Not so. You stated Permanently. That's a big word that implies the effect can never be removed and lasts forever. But even without insanity, you can still ruin characters forever by erasing them from reality.

Gorgondantess
2011-01-30, 03:39 AM
Not so. You stated Permanently. That's a big word that implies the effect can never be removed and lasts forever. But even without insanity, you can still ruin characters forever by erasing them from reality.

Not so. "Permanent", in D&D terms, means indefinite duration but can be removed. Permanencied spells are permanent, but they can still go away from a dispel magic, as are all other effects with a duration of "permanent".
Anyways, I'll get to the other points later. Just wanted to clarify that now.

Mystic Muse
2011-01-30, 03:55 AM
Does anybody have any ideas for an 18th/19th level dragon of Hell? I know I shouldn't do too much at one time, but I felt like doing the hellfire wyrm. The only problem is, I can't think of any decent abilities for those levels. I could give it a few more SLAs, but it already gets 20 so I would think it would be covered by now.

ScionoftheVoid
2011-01-30, 05:08 AM
Speaking of which: first five people to post and ask for a critique on their monsters that's more than a week old get my critique. I want to do some critiquing, but I don't want to waste time and energy on anything that's been abandoned.

I think I'm in time for this. The Gargoyle is (I think) very near finished, but hasn't gotten a green light yet, if you'd care to critique it.

TheGeckoKing
2011-01-30, 10:58 AM
Speaking of which: first five people to post and ask for a critique on their monsters that's more than a week old get my critique. I want to do some critiquing, but I don't want to waste time and energy on anything that's been abandoned.

Firstly, Pseudonatural Creature looks a bit......strong. Were you aiming for Tier 2? It seems solidly in that ballpark. Also, Locathah looks fine, although I don't have the slightest clue where that monster is from.

Now, the bad news. If you would kindly, I've touched up Pandorym (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9943992&postcount=295) :smallwink:
No rush, mind you. Just wanted to ask if you'd have a look.

ScionoftheVoid
2011-01-30, 11:15 AM
Also, Locathah looks fine, although I don't have the slightest clue where that monster is from.

Monster Manual, right before Lycanthrope.

TheGeckoKing
2011-01-30, 11:16 AM
And that'll be why. I havn't opened up that book in ages. I just go look at the SRD for most of the older monsters.

Crafty Cultist
2011-01-30, 11:52 AM
What's happened to my werewolf and werebear? They were in need of an over haul, but the werebear remake has been done here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9867276&postcount=44). I'll complete the werewolf rebuild soon.

Edit: I'd also like to endorse hyudra's troll rebuild

Hyudra
2011-01-30, 11:55 AM
Just FYI, Crafty, we're not using the endorsement system anymore. Nothing was getting done with it. See the Critique Guidelines in the first post as to the new method.

That said, stuff isn't getting done under the new system, but that's largely because MagicYop disappeared on us.

Edit: If you're wanting to get caught up on that particular notion, the change happened on page 18 of the 5th thread.

Lord_Gareth
2011-01-30, 12:30 PM
If you folks would like some dedicated space with which to work, there's space available on Plothook (http://plothook.net/RPG/forumdisplay.php?f=1473) (which could use some 'brewers, frankly) and Competitor (http://forum.faxcelestis.net/) (just PM Fax or DragoonWraith for a dedicated sub-forum). Plothook also has the advantage of a built-in chat room.

That being said, I kinda suck at balancing 'brew, but a lot of this stuff looks great. Keep on keepin' on, ya'll.

Frog Dragon
2011-01-30, 12:59 PM
Looking at my old yugoloths, I realized two things.
1. The Mezzoloth and the Nycaloth are 3.0, versions, and both were changed in a way that matters for 3.5 :smallannoyed:
2. The Mezzo can't really hold a candle to the Nycaloth
Sooo... Nycaloth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9044409&postcount=1058) and Mezzoloth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9015485&postcount=1033), overhauled. The mezzo had its SLA capability enhanced dramatically and squeezed into 6 levels, and the Nycaloth basically had its abilities squeezed into three less levels.

Gorgondantess
2011-01-30, 01:38 PM
Firstly, Pseudonatural Creature looks a bit......strong. Were you aiming for Tier 2? It seems solidly in that ballpark.
The idea was to start high then bring it down. However, I am aiming for a "caster" monster- probably on par with a core-only psion. Which I suppose is technically tier 2, so woopee, I've done my job right.:smallamused:



Eldritch: Suggesting the operation of supernatural influences; "an eldritch screech"; "the three weird sisters"; "stumps...had uncanny shapes as of monstrous creatures"- John Galsworthy; "an unearthly light"; "he could hear the unearthly scream of some curlew piercing the din"- Henry Kingsley

The reason Eldritch refers to warlock abilities as much as it does is that it encompasses a broad variety of supernatural effects, be it astrological, faerie, infernal, far realm or simply a variant of arcane magic. In terms of linguistics and etymology, it's the same as saying 'supernatural ______." So using it to refer to Pseudonatural abilities is just a tad broad and unspecific when you could be more on target & unique. It also leads to confusion if and when you're multiclassing between Warlock and Pseudonatural Creature. I hold to the notion that abilities can and should be renamed for the sake of clarity and flavor.
:smallsigh: Fine, fine. I suppose you're right.


But if we're talking about spells, we're talking about limited uses per day, pretty much. A better parallel would be Trip, whcih can also be used all day, every day, and your prone condition, here, is easier, safer and more reliable to apply than trip.
Ugh... please. The Warlock has proven that unlimited uses per day of something isn't broken. By the level you're getting it at, most combats are going to last 2-3 rounds anyways.


That's a good point and good line of thinking. Perhaps the benefit only extends to magical items that fail their save?
Good idea. Will do.


Because that's standardized class creation as outlined and stressed in official "How to create a class" and "How to create a monster" material.
Official? As in, WotC? As in, the guys who botched up monsters so incredibly badly that we're devoting hundreds, if not thousands of hours to rectifying that?:smalltongue:


My bad on the reduced speed, though that does make me raise a further eyebrow at the size, versatility and breadth of the bonuses. Did a ctrl-f to find 'fatigued' in the SRD and the first place it took me was the exhausted condition. Even so, getting extra actions tends to be broken or easily breakable, and like I said, I shy away from such.

In any event, you've got bonus init so you're liable to win initiative, and for that pivotal encounter of the day, you can open up with two standard actions. You're a caster, so the drawback isn't that bad, and forcing two save or lose effects on the enemy caster before they even get a turn is a considerable advantage. As a pseudo-caster yourself, the drawbacks of exhaustion are fairly minor - a -3 to AC and lowered reflex saves.
Yes... but you can only do that once per day, and after that your initiative drops by something like 5 points. It's powerful, yes, but it's not OMGWTFBBQ. You can get the same thing in a belt of battle without having to suffer through the exhausted condition (which is pretty meaty).


Meh. Lots of orphaned flavor text makes for less suspension of disbelief and more mild annoyance on the part of the player/DM/class reviewers.
Listen, I just wanted to make it a little flavorful. I wanted to make all of the invocations a little flavorful. Do you really want me to write up a bunch of info on this guy? Who is Azathoth, by the way? (I mean, really, not that hard to guess.)


Surely you mean you'll down the DC?
Noooo... I'll up the DC that the PC will be saving against.:smalltongue:

(+11 base, +6 from core stats, +4 from cloak of resistance, +5 from periapt of Iron Will, +1 luckstone, +2 from Iron Will feat, +2 from Protection from Evil, +2 from Owl's Wisdom)
That is obscene. Wisdom is a dump stat. You're more likely to have -1 from core stats. Also, why would you have a constant owl's wisdom? Or protection from evil? And Iron Will is generally lauded as a mediocre feat. Oh, and the periapt of iron will is just kindof silly. So, considering that most people won't pump their will save to that extent, and considering that this is supposed to be on par with a 9th level spell, I'm going to change the DC to (10+1/2 HD+Highest ability score modifier). Then the mature adult red dragon will have its save DC be in the mid 30s.

Betropper
2011-01-30, 02:33 PM
Speaking of which: first five people to post and ask for a critique on their monsters that's more than a week old get my critique. I want to do some critiquing, but I don't want to waste time and energy on anything that's been abandoned.

My Gibberring Mouther needs a critique if I'm not mistaken.

Saidoro
2011-01-30, 02:35 PM
Cloaker
I like the idea of a Cloaker hiding on a fellow adventurer, nice touch with the half weight addition.
Engulf is unclear as to weather it needs to succeed on a touch attack before attempting to grapple an opponent. Grapples require touch attacks.
The ability to grapple, and attack other creatures without a penalty is very strong. While normally creatures with improved grab may grapple as if they were not at a -20 penalty, normal creatures cannot attack outside of the grapple at all. Consider allowing the attacks, but perhaps at a healthy penalty? Neither of its attacks are very powerful, and it can only do that when engulfing, which at first level means small creatures only. I don't see it as a major problem.
Engulfing leap mentions flight, which the cloaker does not yet have, it may be good to specify that it must land after this flying bout. It has to end the flying bout with an engulf attempt, it can end up anywhere as long as that anywhere is another creature's head.
It seems as if you are unsure when these abilities should be available without darkness. I am unsure whether they should be available without darkness. Removed that part.
The language in the moans alternates between mentioning enemies and anyone. I doubt a sonic-mind effecting screech could differentiate between ally and enemy, but if it can, you may wish to be consistent with it. Good point.
I suppose fear effects aren't terribly strong when everyone will be resisting or immune to them at this level, but still save or panicked is quite strong. It's only for two rounds and there will likely be at least one ally within 30 ft.
Stupor mentions level rather than HD, which implies that it comes into play at Cloaker L.9, which their isn't. You may wish to change that to HD. Right.
While some of the options are nice, it seems to me to be a very bare class, it could use some more fun abilities, maybe more fluffy ones that can play off the idea that it looks like a cloak, I mean, why not take advantage of the fact that a party member can wear it. I mean, think of all the awesome abilities a semi-magical living cloak that abhors nature could grant to your adventuring buddies!Consider it done

In related news, I'd like to request Gorgondantess's thoughts on the cloaker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10126561#post10126561).

Razor Boar

You may wish to detail trample's action and effects in its entry.
Also, I think "1.5" would be better than "3/2" for the strength modifier as bonus damage. Okay
3rd level this class is looking might barren, and mighty vanilla. So far it has trample, some natural attacks and a little DR, compare this to other Melee monsters of 3rd level, usually there is already some nice combat abilities. I've got an idea for a third level ability in the works, still needs more stuff though.
Fourth level is all critical bumping...which isn't very fun for the play, nor very active. It's a fine side ability, but fourth level should offer an active attack or something. Maybe something like "Spear-hilt Charge" allowing the Boar an AoO against any creature that readies a weapon against it's charge. Okay, I'll work on something.
At fifth level this guy hasn't got much going for him other than his size.
Reflexive gore has some wording issues that seem to imply that the Boar can attack itself, which makes little sense. I mean, of course it can attack itself, but why have an ability that allows it to do so? What wording issues are these? I don't see them.
This class is in serious need of some creative active options. Working on it
Waiting for a critical to happen is a mugs game played by fighters and non-errata Talenta-scythe wielders. I'll keep that in mind.
To answer a few of your questions IMO
* Should I up the racial bonus to bull rush?: Meh. No real need to.
* Is Sharp Tusks broken?: Not so much broken as boring.
* Is Unstoppable to much?: No, it's both weaker and stronger than Deathless frenzy, so I see no real problem with it, and its one of the more active abilities this class has. Maybe it belongs higher on the table, at a higher level, but the table needs some more filling out.
* Crazy Sharp: y/n?: If she must be critical focused, the ability to Critical Against those pesky Undead/Oozes/Constructs/Fortified Armor Wearing savvy Jerks is always a good idea. However it is also suffering from the fact that it is very passive.
I think I've hit the active/passive nail enough times to mar the wood. It's a tough beastie to build, good luck with the revisions! Thanks.

Frog Dragon
2011-01-30, 03:03 PM
I have four critters that need critique. The Black Dragon, the Skeroloth and the Nycaloth and Mezzoloth, which I recently revised and linked to.

Benly
2011-01-30, 03:05 PM
Ugh... please. The Warlock has proven that unlimited uses per day of something isn't broken. By the level you're getting it at, most combats are going to last 2-3 rounds anyways.


Just a caveat: What Warlock proved is that unlimited uses per day is not inherently broken, when combat provides the limiting factor of available actions and useful targets. At-will abilities which can usefully be applied outside of that context can have their implications seriously changed by becoming at-will. As an example, x/day Stone Shape is useful. At-will Stone Shape rebuilds dungeons and castles to your liking.

Zemro
2011-01-30, 04:59 PM
I feel the Thorn is very close to completion and only requires one more council approval. So if either of the active council members would pay it a glance, it'd be much appreciated.

Meanwhile I'll offer some commentary on other unfinished creations. If I don't comment on a specific ability or feature of the class, assume that I saw no problems with it.

Troll

Troll Body: The Troll loses all other racial bonuses and gains Giant traits, granting it low light vision. Trolls are initially medium sized creatures with a base movement speed of 30', possessing two claw attacks that deliver 1d4 + Str mod damage each and natural armor equal to their con modifier.

Trolls speak either Common or Giant as their starting language and gain additional languages for a high intelligence score as normal.

Nothing wrong here, just wanted to comment that I like that you've noted languages as that's good to have and is sometimes skipped.


Furor: Starting at first level, the Troll may throw itself at a foe with reckless abandon, claws or weapon flailing, heedless of the blows he himself suffers. The Troll may, as part of a full attack, deliver an additional blow using its highest attack bonus, with a -2 penalty. A Troll delivering a claw attack in this manner suffers only a -1 penalty to hit. Using Furor provokes an attack of opportunity from the victim, but only a maximum of one such attack of opportunity a round. A successful attack of opportunity does not interrupt or interfere with the Furor.

After any successful hit with Furor, a Troll of 2HD or more may elect to deliver another Furor attack at a further, cumulative -2 (-1 for claw) penalty. As such, a Troll would suffer a -2 for the first Furor attack, a -4 for the second, a -6 for a third, and so on. This process may be repeated to deliver a number of Furor attacks up to or equal to the Troll's HD, with the caveat that if one Furor attack misses, they all miss. Non-furor attacks are unaffected, and do damage independently of whether the Furor misses.

Finally, starting at 2HD, a Troll may deliver a series of Furor attacks alongside a standard action attack, but is limited to one extra attack for every two HD it has. This involves the same cumulative penalties and provokes the attack of opportunity, as described above.

I was unsure of Furor until I noticed the 'if one misses they all do' clause, which does seem like a nice balancing aspect. I'm still a bit unsure, as it does seem to provide more extra attacks the other methods of gaining them. However, I'm probably thinking too much of it, the balancing aspect should take care of that,


Mend Flesh: Starting at first level, the Troll may step back from combat to crudely smear or pinch its flesh together, prompting muscle and warty hide to join together again. Mend Flesh is a standard action, in which the Troll heals itself of damage equal to its HD or its Con modifier, whichever is higher. This is a supernatural ability, and does not count as a spell or magical power for the purposes of healing nonlethal damage (In short, you do not heal an amount of nonlethal damage equal to the lethal damage healed).

This may be performed a number of times a day equal to the Troll's Con modifier. In the event that the Troll suffers fire or acid damage, this ability becomes unusable for 1d4 rounds.

Starting at 3HD, if the Troll is damaged and unable to take a standard action (such as if it is unconscious, stunned, dying or dazed), it will automatically use Mend Flesh as a free action.

At 9HD, the Troll may use Mend Flesh as a move action.

At 15HD, the Troll heals twice the amount.

I like this ability for healing, I like it a lot. It has a good feel to it, and deals nicely with the healing flavour of trolls.


Gnaw: Starting at second level, the Troll gains Bite as a secondary natural attack, dealing 1d4+Str damage. Further, a Troll may elect to forego claw and weapon attacks in a full attack. In doing so, focusing only on the bite (which remains a secondary natural attack), a Troll that successfully hits and damages the foe tears a chunk of flesh from the victim, dealing bonus damage equal to the victim's total HD. (ie. a 20 HD foe would take 20 bonus damage)

I'm kinda worried about this being an underwhelming attack option. While the damage bonus is nice, you're not going to get very many attacks with it, to the point that it seems using claw and weapon attacks will always be the better option for your initial attacks.

It does have a bit of promise with furor, but it's going to be stacking penalties fast, making that a bit risky. The mechanic is neat, I'm unsure about effectiveness.


Excision: At fourth level, a Troll that would fall victim to physical maladies (effects that would require a Fortitude saving throw) can tear and claw away their own flesh to prevent the effect from setting in properly. Doing so is a free action, declared as one fails a Fortitude Save. The Troll deals its own claw damage (typically nonlethal) to itself and adds the damage total to the result of the saving throw.

For example, a Troll achieves a result of 10 against a DC 18 petrifaction attack. It opts to claw at the parts of its body that are turning to stone, dealing 1d4+6 damage to itself. Rolling a 4 for damage, the Troll effectively deals 10 points of nonlethal damage to itself, adding +10 to the result of the save. With a new effective result of 20, the effect is averted.

Limiting to a single save is good, and makes sense, however it does seem to make getting a bonus to saves a little to easy. It's better at the lower levels, but at higher levels with it being a free action and the healing from regeneration, the sustained damage seems to me to have little opportunity cost.


Tumescent Recovery: At fourth level, the Troll may enhance its regeneration for short periods of time, healing less mortal wounds within heartbeats of their occurrence. Activating Tumescent Recovery is a swift action, and grants the effects for the duration of one round. For the duration, any time the Troll sustains damage that is not an attack made as part of a standard or full-round action, or a spell with the Troll as an explicit target, the Troll gains 1d{closest value to Con mod, rounding down} hitpoints. This includes but is not limited to attacks of opportunity, area of effect damage, environmental damage, falling damage and ongoing effects on the Troll. Tumescent recovery is usable once a day per 2HD, but the effect has the same restrictions on use as Mending Flesh (It suffers the same 1d4 round restriction on use after taking fire damage) and the effect ends early if the Troll suffers fire or acid damage. Healing through Tumescent Recovery does not heal an equal amount of nonlethal damage.

I unfortunately have no suggestions on the matter, but it did take a bit of reading to properly process the ability. Perhaps some wording could be simplified or cleaned up? (I understand completely how it works now, it just took a bit when initially reading the class)

Overall, I think a much better class to play and doesn't look like it will require much more work in order to be finished

Hrm, didn't have as much time right now as I thought I would. I shall return later today and hopefully comment on some more classes.

Megawizard
2011-01-30, 05:23 PM
That is obscene. Wisdom is a dump stat. You're more likely to have -1 from core stats.

Geting Cha, Int or Con to Will saves is just one feat away tough.



Also, why would you have a constant owl's wisdom? Or protection from evil?

Cheap buffs, easily spammable at higher levels.



And Iron Will is generally lauded as a mediocre feat. Oh, and the periapt of iron will is just kindof silly.

You can get it with 2000 GP and an Yutulogh's hole tough.



So, considering that most people won't pump their will save to that extent, and considering that this is supposed to be on par with a 9th level spell, I'm going to change the DC to (10+1/2 HD+Highest ability score modifier). Then the mature adult red dragon will have its save DC be in the mid 30s.

I'm no monster balance specialist, but as far as player optimization goes, that's really easy to make. It's not a "Save or lose", it's a "Just lose". And that's tier 1 level right there, wich I believe you're trying to stay away from.

+11 Base+10 either Cha or Con to Will (trough feats), +5 Resistance, +2 Iron Will from Otlyugh's hole (2000 GP), +2 Protection from Evil, +1 Luckstone (or something else) and you only fail on a 1.

Plus most "Save or Die" effects can normally be stoped by immunities (death ward, freedom of movement, mind blank, ect), but I can't recall a single spell, class feature, or anything that could grant immunity to that power.

Gorgondantess
2011-01-30, 05:50 PM
Otyugh hole is cheese, first and foremost.
Secondly, eh, it's a WIP. I've been looking at ways to change it and make it effective while still keeping the same idea.

Megawizard
2011-01-30, 06:16 PM
Otyugh hole is cheese, first and foremost.

So let me see if I get this straight

+2 To will saves for 2000 GP= cheese

Spamming Greater Shaddow Conjuration (wich includes infinite Wall of Iron for infinite gold, infinite faster Planar Binding for infinite powerfull minions, infinite summon monster VI or lower for buff spamming)= not cheese.

I'm missing something here. How can you make quite versatile 7th level and 8th level spells spammable, but you consider geting +2 to Will saves for 2000 GP is cheese?

Gorgondantess
2011-01-30, 07:01 PM
So let me see if I get this straight

+2 To will saves for 2000 GP= cheese
In a word? Yes. I prefer to think of it as "2000 gp for bonus feat", which is certainly cheese.


Spamming Greater Shaddow Conjuration (wich includes infinite Wall of Iron for infinite gold, infinite faster Planar Binding for infinite powerfull minions, infinite summon monster VI or lower for buff spamming)= not cheese.
That is going to be rectified. Like I've said multiple times, it is in no way a finished product.

Chambers
2011-01-30, 07:53 PM
So let me see if I get this straight

+2 To will saves for 2000 GP= cheese

Spamming Greater Shaddow Conjuration (wich includes infinite Wall of Iron for infinite gold, infinite faster Planar Binding for infinite powerfull minions, infinite summon monster VI or lower for buff spamming)= not cheese.

I'm missing something here. How can you make quite versatile 7th level and 8th level spells spammable, but you consider geting +2 to Will saves for 2000 GP is cheese?

The reason Otyugh hole is suspect is that it's not about the mechanical benefits so much as what you really gain. Iron Will is a prerequisite for a number of prestige classes or other feats...but no one wants to burn one of their few feats on Iron Will to get the other thing. Cash is usually readily available and at higher levels 2000gp is a drop in the bucket.

---

If someone wants to review the Dwarf Ancestor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9967230&postcount=491) I'd appreciate it. Hyudra has gone over it extensively but I feel like she and I are at an impasse. New thoughts and observations would be appreciated.

Benly
2011-01-30, 07:57 PM
Okay, so I have some time to go over the Pseudonatural Creature's invocations. I'm going to assume a level 6 entry, since that seems to be the most obvious way to do it.

Least Invocations: These are to be considered as gotten at ECL6.

Implexsion: Basically Shatter with some salvage value. Most warlocks pick this up at first level. It's a nice utility, that's about it. No real complaint.

Dread Curse Of A*******: First off, the "A*******" makes me imagine the creature is yelling "A***HOLE" to inflict massive confusion on his foes, but that's my own personal damage. Moving on from that, this is pretty powerful right when you get it, which I guess is supposed to be okay because if you use it your partymates are hosed? Whatever.

All Awareness: Nice bonus, not that big. No real complaint.

Many Voiced, Things Man Was Not Meant To Know: These are pretty much standard skill invocations, although it would be cleaner if they gave the same size bonus.

Lesser Invocations: These are to be considered as gotten at ECL7.

Twitch: +10 to move speed but you can't run or charge. +3 to initiative, +4 to Listen, -1 to all attack rolls, melee damage rolls, and AC. I don't mean to be rude, but did you actually consider the effects of fatigue? The bonus-action option is nice, but on the whole I consider this invocation to be more bane than boon.

Realigned Gravity: Flavorful and useful. The speed is pretty high, but it's not a dealbreaker by a long shot. I like this one.

Summon Lesser Warp Elemental: Impossible to evaluate without Warp Elemental stats.

Shadowy Tentacles: Hooboy. The thing is, ability damage is powerful. Ability damage without a save is powerful. Ability damage without a save, over a fairly large AoE, with one of the best battlefield control effects in this level range applied as a free bonus? Yeahhh. This is without getting into the question of whether you can stack multiple Black Tentacles over the same area. This is a win button against humanoid enemies and quite a lot of nonhumanoids. The only time you wouldn't spam this is when you're facing the "colossal with ludicrous grapple score" enemies...

Improved Dread Curse Of Algernon: ...which is when you use this, because those guys tend to have unimpressive Will saves and Wisdom scores. Assuming you don't mind that you're destroying your allies, of course.

Ability damage takes down enemies fast, especially when you can tune it to their weakness, and double-especially when it's resisted with the same score it damages - like, say, a grapple that drains Strength or a Will save against Wisdom damage.


Greater Invocations: these come online at level 11.

Ego Explosion: Basically, this is a save or die that's harder to optimize. Enemies with high Charisma tend to be the sort with high Will saves. This doesn't jump out at me as broken, although I could be wrong. Probably should be mind-affecting, though - it doesn't make any sense for it not to be.

Y'Nachtal's Wail: Moderate damage, save-or-suck and you die if you fail two different saves in a row. Doesn't seem like a big problem to me at these levels other than the whole "party unfriendly" thing.

Summon Greater Warp Elemental: Can't be evaluated without Warp Elemental stats.

Flash Implexsion: Keeps an old invocation useful by cutting out most of its action cost. You'll probably be spamming this a lot, just for lack of anything better to do with your swifts by default.

Eldritch Tentacles: See criticism of Shadowy Tentacles, and add "save every round or die" to the list - although obviously you don't use this on an enemy you plan to loot.


Eldritch Invocations: These come online at ECL 17.

Subjective Reality: This is going to be your first eldritch invocation, because it's actually two invocations at once and they're both ridiculously powerful.

So, hey, remember what I said earlier in the thread about how there are in fact some powers where at-will changes their nature entirely? Greater Shadow Conjuration is one of them. Actually, it's about forty of them. You know what's awesome? Being able to spit out ten Trumpet Archons per minute who will all stick around for several days and cast as 14th-level clerics. Or Efreeti, if you want to jump straight to the part where you get a billion Wishes. You will need someone to draw your summoning circle for you before you can do this, but you can probably pay him in Wishes.

So I read some of the discussion of Subjective Reality's save-or-goodbye application, and you seemed to think that wisdom is a dump stat and nobody would tool their Will save that high. The thing is, when you can use your Will save as the attack roll for a no-save annihilation attack, it's no longer a dump stat and people can and will optimize their Will save if they expect to have a chance to use this. What's more, since this is a catch-up class that automatically brings you up to par when you come in, there's little reason not to spend your first five levels building for a high Will save if you reasonably expect to ever get eldritch access. Or, if you don't feel like that, you could just dip one level of warblade or swordsage in your first five, get Moment of Perfect Mind, and pick up Concentration-boosting items when you get to the high levels to have a Win Button at very little cost.


Portal Rend: Save every round or gone forever. Powerful, and it would be potentially pushing it except that you only get two Eldritch Invocations and you've already taken Subjective Reality.

Summon True Warp Elemental: Cannot be evaluated without Warp Elemental stats but frankly I'll be boggled if it even holds a candle by comparison.

True Dread Curse Of Applebee: Whoops! Everyone's mind just fell out. Possibly the least party-friendly it's possible for an ability to be, but that's okay because the enemy spellcasters just forgot how to use their level-appropriate spells and the enemy non-spellcasters don't have high enough mental stats to remember how to move after that ability damage. And that's assuming they're immune to mind-affecting. On the bright side, it's not as broken as Subjective Reality.

Hyudra
2011-01-31, 12:02 AM
At the end of the day, though, abilities can be tweaked and rebalanced. Off target flavor is a lot harder to handle.

I really think that the biggest problem with the Pseudonatural creature isn't that it's unbalanced, but that it feels like 95% Alienist and 5% Pseudonatural Creature. Those aspects of the class that I might ascribe to the Pseudonatural Creature (namely, the transformations) could and would (and are? I don't have access to my books) easily be an Alienist class feature. The class, in the end, feels like an Alienist, in flavor, scope and role. It's an interesting approach, and it sells the Mythos aspects, but it doesn't come across as a Pseudonatural creature. I don't think that's just my inherent bias, either. I think it's genuinely off target.

Pseudonatural creatures aren't casters, as the Gorgondantess variant portrays them. They're like chaos spawn from Warhammer, or Shoggoths. They're aberrations half outside reality that might vaguely resemble something you could recognize one moment, then become writhing masses of tentacles the next. Their schtick is that, half outside of reality, they can phase through objects and reach into your chest to tear out your heart. That and the whole 'turn into mind-bending horrors' bit.

The argument that the Pseudonatural creature is supposed to encompass or blend both the Pseudonatural creature and the Alienist seems off target. If I wanted an Alienist, I'd homebrew one, or roll one up. If I want a Pseudonatural creature, I'd rather have my chaos-spawny hybrid or face melting Shoggoth. I just don't see the merit in blurring the two. Especially when one class (alienist) can end up summoning the other (pseudonatural creatures).

So yeah, that's my biggest concern with the class at present.