Condoleances to the Arizonans

[Asta Kask]

I want no politics in this thread, no speculations on what the motive behind this act of insanity was.

I just want to say - as one human to another - that what happened is a terrible tragedy and that you have my condoleances.

[arguskos]

Agreed, and honestly, I'm amazed she lived. Being shot in the head and living is EXCEEDINGLY rare, and it's always good to see someone survived such an action.

[Moonshadow]

Especially when you consider that she was shot point blank in the head and the bullet didn't pass through both hemispheres.

Maybe he was just an extremely disgruntled voter? :smallconfused:

[AsteriskAmp]

My condolences too, way too weird attack for I can't even formulate a reason.
Her surviving is amazing and a good notice amidst the tragedy of 6 deaths and 13 injured.

[Coidzor]

Holy crap. How long ago did that happen? Guy takes a nap and....:smalleek:

[AsteriskAmp]

Holy crap. How long ago did that happen? Guy takes a nap and....:smalleek:

Yesterday, they caught a second suspect today.

[Innis Cabal]

It's a terrible thing that it happen, but it's not a state wide tragedy or anything. I didn't even hear about it until this thread. Saying condolences to us Zonan's would be like making a thread for Ohio if the Provost of OSU got shot. I'd say condolences to her family are far more in order.

[The Glyphstone]

Holy crap. How long ago did that happen? Guy takes a nap and....:smalleek:

Yesterday.

[Dr.Epic]

I'm sorry, what are you guys talking about? It sounds really tragic (and I'm not trying to be rude), but could someone provide a link to this story? The only news I watch is on Comedy Central so you'll have to forgive me for not know what happened.

[DraPrime]

I heard about this earlier today. This is truly a terribly sad tragedy. My prayers go out to those affected by this event. :smallfrown:

[AsteriskAmp]

I'm sorry, what are you guys talking about? It sounds really tragic (and I'm not trying to be rude), but could someone provide a link to this story? The only news I watch is on Comedy Central so you'll have to forgive me for not know what happened.

I got it from:
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0108/Arizona-shooting-Rep.-Gabrielle-Giffords-hit-at-meeting-with-constituents
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0109/Gabrielle-Giffords-case-Second-man-sought-in-mass-Arizona-shooting

Disclaimer: I don't support or endorse, nor oppose the points of view presented in the articles, they are presented as a news story, and should be cross-checked with other versions and presentation of the news in question.

[Dr.Epic]

I got it from:
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0108/Arizona-shooting-Rep.-Gabrielle-Giffords-hit-at-meeting-with-constituents
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0109/Gabrielle-Giffords-case-Second-man-sought-in-mass-Arizona-shooting

Disclaimer: I don't support or endorse, nor oppose the points of view presented in the articles, they are presented as a news story, and should be cross-checked with other versions and presentation of the news in question.

:smalleek:Oh man! That's so tragic. All those people.:smalleek:My condolences to all those affected.

[Emperor Ing]

My sincere condolences to the families of all those that were shot, my prayers go out to the victims. Congresswoman Giffords, we may disagree on a LOT of stuff, but nobody deserves that to happen to them. Nobody.

[MoonCat]

Life attempts are scary. And that a nine year old died...

[Crow]

I feel more sympathy for the family of that little girl than anything.

[CoffeeIncluded]

The second suspect was actually just a cabdriver and not involved in any way.

And I honestly cannot believe that she survived. This was a truly horrible thing.

[Devixer]

I was rather shocked and saddened when this happened. My thoughts are with the families of the victims, and to my fellow Arizonans in general.

[Lycan 01]

My condolences to the families affected. I'm trying to figure out more to say on the matter, but I honestly just can't find the right words. Its a tragedy, through and through, made even worse by the fact that he went after anyone and everyone in sight, even children. :smallfrown:

[Mando Knight]

And I honestly cannot believe that she survived. This was a truly horrible thing.

Well, if the bullet didn't mess her mind up too much, she'll have quite the story to tell.

[Serpentine]

Agreed, and honestly, I'm amazed she lived. Being shot in the head and living is EXCEEDINGLY rare, and it's always good to see someone survived such an action.One guy, who did it to himself, went on to make significant advances in chemistry.

Seriously messed-up.

[Lord Herman]

Wow. My sympathies to all Arizonans. Let's hope the congresswoman and the other injured pull through. :smallfrown:

[Asta Kask]

For those who are interested, I studied brain damage for a while. It's not that unusual for a person to remain conscious after a bullet wound to the head (if they survive), so that fact is not a good indicator of how bad the injury is. This is because the brain itself does not move very much - the bullet just goes through. It is when the brain starts moving and bouncing off of the walls of the skull that unconsciousness ensues (actually there's a raging controversy as to why concussions happen, but that's off-topic for the moment).

But if she can communicate and respond to simple commands, that's a good sign.

[Killer Angel]

Life attempts are scary. And that a nine year old died...


I feel more sympathy for the family of that little girl than anything.

This is truly the saddest thing... :smallfrown:

[Serpentine]

But if she can communicate and respond to simple commands, that's a good sign.Apparently the latter is the case.

A Certain Ridiculous Controversymongering Religious Group has threatened to picket the funerals of the victims of the shooting :smallsigh:

[Obrysii]

I truly hope that, if there is any so-called benefit from this, is that politics will become a bit more sane now - and not so outrageous; ala a "return to sanity."

And I agree - the worst part was the 9 year old girl who died. Coincidentally she was born on September 11th, 2001. Just an interesting coincidence and a very sad one.

[Demon 997]

I truly hope that, if there is any so-called benefit from this, is that politics will become a bit more sane now - and not so outrageous; ala a "return to sanity."

And I agree - the worst part was the 9 year old girl who died. Coincidentally she was born on September 11th, 2001. Just an interesting coincidence and a very sad one.

While I wish for the same thing, I find it far more likely that the politics will stay the same, and this kind of thing will become more frequent.

[pendell]

Thoughts and prayers :(. A terrible tragedy.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Kislath]

A Certain Ridiculous Controversymongering Religious Group has threatened to picket the funerals of the victims of the shooting :smallsigh:

Oh, I hate those morons. Why hasn't anyone stomped their butts yet?

[pendell]

Oh, I hate those morons. Why hasn't anyone stomped their butts yet?

No doubt because that's precisely what they want. Then they can record it all and give themselves airs as 'martyrs persecuted by evil blah blah'.

The best thing to do would be to stop giving them air time, stop chasing them with TV news crews, and simply ignore them. Protestors of this stripe crave attention; physically beating the cow pies out of them, while momentarily satisfying, only gives them even more news time.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[CynicalAvocado]

No doubt because that's precisely what they want. Then they can record it all and give themselves airs as 'martyrs persecuted by evil blah blah'.

The best thing to do would be to stop giving them air time, stop chasing them with TV news crews, and simply ignore them. Protestors of this stripe crave attention; physically beating the cow pies out of them, while momentarily satisfying, only gives them even more news time.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

it gets hard when they get in your face and say how happy they are your brother/son/friend got killed

[pendell]

it gets hard when they get in your face and say how happy they are your brother/son/friend got killed

I well understand that. It occurs to me, however, that when they do that they are intentionally provoking you. As on a schoolground, giving a bully what he wants -- in this case a thorough pasting, and pictures on TV news -- will be momentarily satisfying, but in the long run will benefit them. Why let them use your own grief against you as a weapon? Why let yourself manipulated into doing something that will only help them do more of the same to other people?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Lord Loss]

My condolences to all those affected by the tragedy :smallfrown:.

[Trobby]

Regardless of what we ought to do about the protesters at the funerals, what they are doing is disgusting.

My condolences to the friends and family of all those who lost their lives in that shooting, and to anyone who has lost a person tragically in that way.

[grimbold]

the fact that things like this happen makes me sick, you have my condolences as well

[Form]

Apparently the latter is the case.

A Certain Ridiculous Controversymongering Religious Group has threatened to picket the funerals of the victims of the shooting :smallsigh:

Oh god, those guys!?:smallfurious:

As if the families of the victims don't have enough to deal with already. :smallmad:

[Dacia Brabant]

Regardless of what we ought to do about the protesters at the funerals, what they are doing is disgusting.

I've long believed the Fred Phelps cult (I refuse to call them a church) should be locked up for public incitements to violence. Maybe this will finally be the last straw for them.

That aside, my deepest sympathies for the victims, survivors, families and friends, and even for the family of the would-be assassin.

[CrimsonAngel]

I'm not sure who A Certain Ridiculous Controversymongering Religious Group is.
I feel really bad for the families of those who were shot and the Congressman.
(Congresswoman?):smallfrown:

[blackfox]

I'm not sure who A Certain Ridiculous Controversymongering Religious Group is.
I feel really bad for the families of those who were shot and the Congressman.
(Congresswoman?):smallfrown:Congresswoman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabrielle_Giffords), and Westboro Baptist Church (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westborough_Baptist_Church).

Unless you're asking about what the proper term of address is, which is 'Representative' IIRC? Title is Congresswoman, term of address is Representative.

[CrimsonAngel]

Congresswoman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabrielle_Giffords), and Westboro Baptist Church (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westborough_Baptist_Church).

Unless you're asking about what the proper term of address is, which is 'Representative' IIRC? Title is Congresswoman, term of address is Representative.

... There was a picture of a child with a...

What terrible people. :smalleek: The counter protest near the bottom looked fun, though...

[Raz_Fox]

It is always a tragedy when we use violence to settle our disagreements. For those affected by this horrid shooting - you are in my prayers. Let them be well and may they find solace.

[Demon 997]

I well understand that. It occurs to me, however, that when they do that they are intentionally provoking you. As on a schoolground, giving a bully what he wants -- in this case a thorough pasting, and pictures on TV news -- will be momentarily satisfying, but in the long run will benefit them. Why let them use your own grief against you as a weapon? Why let yourself manipulated into doing something that will only help them do more of the same to other people?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

The best response would be the media agreeing to ignore them (not that I expect that to happen) and people doing counter protests and barricades around the funereal.

EDIT: We should probably get off the topic of the WBC as it is likely to stray into religion and is also moderately off topic. I don't think we've really gotten into religion yet, but it seems likely that we might and I'd prefer that this thread not end up getting locked.

[Lycan 01]

So... The guy's new mugshot...

Scary... (http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/undated-photo-released-Pima-County-Sheriff-Office-shows-shooting-suspect/photo//110110/480/urn_publicid_ap_org_ea310e7e39ae4b1c93879bc864cd65 f8//s:/ap/20110110/ap_on_re_us/us_congresswoman_shot)

6 innocent people dead at his hands, and he's smiling...

[IsaacTheHungry]

It is truly a great tragedy, i have been following it sense near the beginning. Instead of talking about the shooters i want to mention some heroes

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/10/arizona.shooting.intern/index.html?hpt=T2

Story of an intern (who had been with the congresswoman for less the a week) who helped the shot Congresswoman. he is a certified nursing assistant and had some triage training and was able to put aside his emotions and treat the head-wound right away.

also i can't find the article at the moment but i read about an old lady who helped with the shooter. She reached the group while two men were trying to wrestle the shooter to the ground while the shooter was trying to reload. someone said get the magazine (the gun magazine the shooter was trying to load in his gun) and she jumped in and was able to snatch it away

EDIT: link to the story about the old lady and those that wrestled the shooter to the ground http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/01/09/arizona.shooting.wrestled.gunman/index.html

[AsteriskAmp]

It is truly a great tragedy, i have been following it sense near the beginning. Instead of talking about the shooters i want to mention some heroes

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/10/arizona.shooting.intern/index.html?hpt=T2

Story of an intern (who had been with the congresswoman for less the a week) who helped the shot Congresswoman. he is a certified nursing assistant and had some triage training and was able to put aside his emotions and treat the head-wound right away.

also i can't find the article at the moment but i read about an old lady who helped with the shooter. She reached the group while two men were trying to wrestle the shooter to the ground while the shooter was trying to reload. someone said get the magazine (the gun magazine the shooter was trying to load in his gun) and she jumped in and was able to snatch it away

EDIT: link to the story about the old lady and those that wrestled the shooter to the ground http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/01/09/arizona.shooting.wrestled.gunman/index.html

My respects to that old woman, very few people would do that, much less an old lady. She is awesome. Also, that intern is to be praised too.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Giffords is now able to breathe on her own, although she's still on a respirator as a precaution. This is really good.

[pendell]

Indeed. The doctors give her a very high chance of recovery. Here's hoping and praying!

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Asta Kask]

Significant risk of fatigue, problems with memory, concentration difficulties, emotional instability, and more specific symptoms depending on the bullet's path.

[Asthix]

Its a shame that guy never got the help he needed.

The doctors said that by Wednesday night she will begin to move away from the risk of brain swelling and that they can consider bringing her out of the medically induced coma.

[Dusk Eclipse]

My prays and thoughts for the affected families; I really don't know what else to say.

[Moff Chumley]

I'd just like to poke my head in here and bring up the first segment of Monday's Daily Show (http://www.thedailyshow.com/). I think it was a pretty beautiful analysis of this tragedy, its reprocussions, and its implications. Which I realize isn't something you normall get from the Daily Show, but I'd still urge you to watch it. >.>

[Demon 997]

I'd just like to poke my head in here and bring up the first segment of Monday's Daily Show (http://www.thedailyshow.com/). I think it was a pretty beautiful analysis of this tragedy, its reprocussions, and its implications. Which I realize isn't something you normall get from the Daily Show, but I'd still urge you to watch it. >.>

That was an excellent segment, you could really see how much it affected him. :smallfrown::smalleek:

[Serpentine]

Wow... He really got serious, huh?

[AtlanteanTroll]

Giffords is now able to breathe on her own, although she's still on a respirator as a precaution. This is really good.

While this is GREAT news, it doesn't means that Giffords will ever be the SAME again.


Its a shame that guy never got the help he needed.

What? All the news I've heard have made it sound like he isn't CLINICALLY insane.

[Serpentine]

What? All the news I've heard have made it sound like he isn't CLINICALLY insane.Well, at the very least, several people saw it coming...

[AtlanteanTroll]

Well, at the very least, several people saw it coming...

They did? His family said they didn't. I've heard he had met her, and didn't like her though...

[Serpentine]

Weeeell, this (http://wonkette.com/434744/absolutely-everyone-thought-this-kid-was-going-on-a-shooting-spree) is where I got it from. Make of it what you will.

[Asta Kask]

Hindsight is 20/20. I wonder how many would have named him a week before the deed...

[Coidzor]

His family said they didn't.

Families always say that, so it's not really an indication of anything unless they say they did expect their offspring to maim/burn/kill someone.

[THAC0]

Families always say that, so it's not really an indication of anything unless they say they did expect their offspring to maim/burn/kill someone.

Considering that law enforcement had contact with him because he was issuing death threats to people and considering he had to be physically removed from his college by said law enforcement due to what the college called "mental health issues"...

[Kcalehc]

Considering that law enforcement had contact with him because he was issuing death threats to people and considering he had to be physically removed from his college by said law enforcement due to what the college called "mental health issues"...

But note that he was not a minor, so his family are not required to be informed. The only way they'd know is if he or someone else told them about these things. So the family could possibly have not been fully aware of his issues.

Either way, loss of life is regrettable, and its fortunate that it wasn't worse - there were many that were hit but not killed.

[Mando Knight]

What? All the news I've heard have made it sound like he isn't CLINICALLY insane.
Besides the "going into a supermarket and start shooting at people" bit?

I mean, if he just wanted to get rid of Giffords, there would have been cleaner and more efficient means of doing it than a single pistol bullet to the head...

[Dubious Pie]

The only thing I can't believe is that this didn't happen sooner. :smallfrown:

[Kislath]

I have to agree, sad but true.

More clean and efficient...?
This guy wasn't looking for any such thing. There's a reason he's smiling in his mugshot.

[Kaiser Omnik]

I'll just point out the Forum Rules (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/announcement.php?f=29&a=1).

[THAC0]

But note that he was not a minor, so his family are not required to be informed. The only way they'd know is if he or someone else told them about these things. So the family could possibly have not been fully aware of his issues.

Either way, loss of life is regrettable, and its fortunate that it wasn't worse - there were many that were hit but not killed.

Well, there was also the death shrine he build in his parent's back yard.

Anyway, I agree that the loss of life is regrettable, and I was very glad to see the immediate response from those at the scene that acted to stop the shooter and help the injured.

[Moff Chumley]

Wow... He really got serious, huh?

I think anything else would be a bit crass.

[Zeb The Troll]

Unless you're asking about what the proper term of address is, which is 'Representative' IIRC? Title is Congresswoman, term of address is Representative.I've been wondering about that this week. Why do newspersons refer to members of the House of Representatives as "Congressman/Congresswoman"*? The first thought, of course, is 'well, duh, they're members of congress'. Yes. But so are Senators and we don't call them by a more generic term. And, wouldn't it be easier to refer to them as "Representative"? It's both gender neutral AND easier to say.

On topic, though, I am keeping everyone who was injured in the attack in my thoughts, particularly Rep. Giffords. Not because she's a member of Congress, but because her injuries seem to be the worst of those who are still hospitalized.

If there is a bright side to this ordeal, it's the number of people who sprung to action once the chaos erupted. Not that I blame or think less of anyone who simply ducked for cover, because that's what our instincts tell us to do. It's just heartening that, in a rather small gathering, that many people ran towards the gunman instead of away from him.

*Note that, in my area at least, they do this both when talking about them ("the tragedy involving Congresswoman Giffords on Saturday") and talking to them ("Congressman Smith, thank you for being on our show").

[shadow_archmagi]

That was an excellent segment, you could really see how much it affected him. :smallfrown::smalleek:




Wow... He really got serious, huh?

It's pretty common for John to play the straight man while having his minions tell jokes, and I think that the skit worked beautifully. He got to express his message of "You're all terrible people for abusing this mourning" while keeping things fairly lighthearted and humorous.

On a related note, this is why I don't follow the news. It seems like my options are "COMEDIAN" or "TERRIBLE PERSON"

[Quincunx]

My reaction to the title "Representative" is "representative of what?" even though I know what you're referring to. "Congresswoman" is a similar mouthful but it conveys more. There aren't so many competing senates to dilute the meaning of "senator".

[Moff Chumley]

It's pretty common for John to play the straight man while having his minions tell jokes, and I think that the skit worked beautifully. He got to express his message of "You're all terrible people for abusing this mourning" while keeping things fairly lighthearted and humorous.

On a related note, this is why I don't follow the news. It seems like my options are "COMEDIAN" or "TERRIBLE PERSON"

I was refering to the first segment on Monday, in which there was no comedy of any sort involved.

[shadow_archmagi]

I was refering to the first segment on Monday, in which there was no comedy of any sort involved.

Oh, that makes more sense.

[Ytaker]

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/national_world&id=7895767


Figueroa [ex girlfriend] says the last time she saw Loughner was three or four months ago. She says she does not think he is mentally ill.

"I think he's faking everything. I think the outburst that he had in class -- I think he's planned everything. I think that he has been planning this for some time," said Figueroa.

He likely wanted fame, as part of it. He got it.

[Asta Kask]

Couldn't he just have set fire to a building (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herostratus) or something. At least buildings can be rebuilt.

[DaMidget]

At least the congresswoman was placed in very capable hands. She probably had the best surgeon available for this situation.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jan/10/nation/la-na-peter-rhee-20110110

[101jir]

I didn't get the whole story, and it was actually probably Monday when i found out. What got me was the nine year old kid :smalleek::smallyuk:. Did that guy seriouly take aim at her and fire, was he shooting into the crowd wildly, or did it take him that many shots to get the congresswoman? In any case, that is just creepy and messed up. You hear about that type of thing happening throughout history, but its not really the same as when it happened 1 week ago. Must be hard for Tuscon, when something big happens to a place, everyone gets all worried that their city's name will be assosiated with evil.