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View Full Version : 3.P Gloves of Storing: why so expensive?!



Duncan_Ruadrik
2011-01-09, 05:13 PM
they cost 10,000 gp? I mean, storing and retrieving a single item as a free action is handy,but I dunno if its that handy. So to speak.

is there an alternate, less expensive method of doing the same thing? Say, with a melee weapon, so you could reload a one handed ranged weapon that is in your off hand?

balistafreak
2011-01-09, 05:17 PM
The most popular "alternate" strategy is to use an... errr, "alternate" item. From the Ghostwalk Campaign Setting comes the Glove of the Master Strategist. To quote, it "acts like a glove of storing"... for only 3600 gold. Yup, it's a glove of storing for just 3600. The authors of Ghostwalk realized how overpriced the item was and made an identical copy of the item at just a hair over a third of the original price.

Oh wait! It isn't identical! It can "allows the wearer to use a true strike effect once per day"! (I presume this means standard action [manipulation/command word] usage, not non-action usage.)

Now you're cooking with gas. :smallbiggrin:

Duncan_Ruadrik
2011-01-09, 05:21 PM
Wow. That's. Awesome. Ghostwalk you say? hm....

Well, thanks a lot!

randomhero00
2011-01-09, 05:23 PM
Ya the writers really didn't playtest much and really didn't know how to price things. They over/under priced a lot of things.

Elfin
2011-01-09, 05:25 PM
Or just didn't know how to playtest.

ffone
2011-01-09, 05:28 PM
they cost 10,000 gp? I mean, storing and retrieving a single item as a free action is handy,but I dunno if its that handy. So to speak.

is there an alternate, less expensive method of doing the same thing? Say, with a melee weapon, so you could reload a one handed ranged weapon that is in your off hand?

least crystal of return, 300 gp, MIC.

Draw a weapon as a free (not swift!) action.

Weapons only, but:

For wands, put in wand chambers.

Requires masterwork weapon, so citing 'anything is an improvised weapon' won't cut it.

You can probably make lots of other things 'masterwork weapons'. Or see if the DM will buy 'tying item X to a mw weapon with a rope.'

balistafreak
2011-01-09, 05:32 PM
A couple of qualifications:


least crystal of return, 300 gp, MIC.

Draw a weapon as a free (not swift!) action.

Half the problem is putting the weapon away to get your free hand back. Quick Draw/Least Crystal of Return does nothing about that, which can be a massive headache.


Weapons only, but:

For wands, put in wand chambers.

Requires masterwork weapon, so citing 'anything is an improvised weapon' won't cut it.

Also, I believe the weapon in question has to have a hilt or something. Thou shalt not put wand chambers in one's armor spikes.

woodenbandman
2011-01-09, 05:55 PM
ring of arming

2000 or so gold

Like a glove of storing, but with an entire suit of armor as well.

Duncan_Ruadrik
2011-01-09, 05:57 PM
where is this "ring of arming"?

woodenbandman
2011-01-09, 06:04 PM
I think magic item compendium.

DMClockwork
2011-01-09, 06:17 PM
I believe the Ring of Arming is 5000 gp
And its on page 122 of the MIC

mootoall
2011-01-09, 06:21 PM
Regarding putting things away, dropping an item is a free action.

Duncan_Ruadrik
2011-01-09, 06:42 PM
Yeah, but dropping things suck when its a move action to pick it up next round, which also provokes an AoO.

Claudius Maximus
2011-01-09, 06:54 PM
That's why you have a rope attaching it to your wrist. :smalltongue:

Duncan_Ruadrik
2011-01-09, 07:01 PM
a rope on my wrist... with 2-3 feet of sharp steel on the other end, all while Im reloading say, a hand crossbow or flintlock pistol. Thanks, but no thanks.

Also, if i remember correctly, it was still a move action to "pick up" the attached weapon, though without the AoO. Maybe I'm making that up, because I dont remember where I read/saw that.

Also, ring of arming... It doesnt say that you get to pick which weapons/armor get shrunk into the ring. which kind of sucks. I like the Glove of the Master Strategist more, just due to clarity of use and results price-benefit analysis. :smallsmile:

Darrin
2011-01-09, 07:03 PM
Ya the writers really didn't playtest much and really didn't know how to price things. They over/under priced a lot of things.

That's not really the case with the Glove of the Master Strategist. Ghostwalk was a 3.0 book, and the 3600 GP price was based on the 3.0 price of a Glove of Storing (2200 GP). So it's more like 2200 GP + 1400 GP for true strike 1/day.

Actually, by 3.0 guidelines the glove may be more expensive than it should be. Normally a 1st level spell effect 1/day should be 360 GP (command word activated) or 400 GP (use activated). The designer probably increased the price to 1400 GP because he was stacking an additional ability on an existing item, or he thought the true strike ability was more powerful than most 1st-level spell effects.

When Ghostwalk was updated to 3.5, the editor/designers probably didn't notice or remember that the price for the Glove of Storing went up to 10000 GP in 3.5. They either weren't paying attention to the magic item prices or decided the 3.0 prices were fine the way they were... possibly a combination of both. In the 3.5 update, I can see they adjusted the prices of specific magic weapons and armor, but for the rest of the magic items they seem more preoccupied with making sure the correct "school of magic" aura is listed.

Anyway, because Ghostwalk got a 3.5 update, the 3600 GP price is official... and probably closer to what it should be. 10000 GP for a Glove of Storing is way too much.

gbprime
2011-01-09, 07:22 PM
I don't see the Glove of Storing as a useful combat item so much as it is a very cheap and easy way to HIDE ALL YOUR STUFF. It's a regular leather glove, says so in the description. Doesn't even need to MATCH the one you have on your other hand. So put a Magic Aura on it every so often so it doesn't look magical to a casual examination, then store a small Bag of Holding there with all your loot and backup items. With a regular backpack on your person, nobody will think of even looking twice at that glove.

Voila, proof against getting looted while you sleep and reasonable proof against losing your backup stuff if imprisioned. It also means you can carry a heavy pack into any social situation...

Rainbownaga
2011-01-09, 10:49 PM
...then store a small Bag of Holding there with all your loot and backup items. With a regular backpack on your person, nobody will think of even looking twice at that glove.


Just make sure your dm isn't one who objects to an extra-dimensional space within an extra dimensional space. If anything goes wrong you really wouldn't want it on your hand.

Darrin
2011-01-09, 11:05 PM
Just make sure your dm isn't one who objects to an extra-dimensional space within an extra dimensional space. If anything goes wrong you really wouldn't want it on your hand.

A Glove of Storing/Master Strategist isn't an extra-dimensional (or non-dimensional) space. The object is "held in stasis and shrunk down so small within the palm of the glove that it cannot be seen". Bags of Holding/Portable Holes would treat it just like any other normal-dimensional object.

woodenbandman
2011-01-09, 11:19 PM
Yeah that's another thing why is it a 2nd level spell to create a temporary plane of existance but a third level spell to shrink an item?

Rainbownaga
2011-01-09, 11:21 PM
A Glove of Storing/Master Strategist isn't an extra-dimensional (or non-dimensional) space. The object is "held in stasis and shrunk down so small within the palm of the glove that it cannot be seen". Bags of Holding/Portable Holes would treat it just like any other normal-dimensional object.

Ooops, my bad.

Shrinking a 20lb item so small that it can't be seen and is somehow (I assume) still attached to the palm of the glove seems very different from most magic storage devices.

gbprime
2011-01-10, 12:36 AM
Shrinking a 20lb item so small that it can't be seen and is somehow (I assume) still attached to the palm of the glove seems very different from most magic storage devices.

Which is precisely why it works so wonderfully with an extradimensional storage device. They're totally compatible as long as it meets the 20 pound limit. And since a Magic Aura lasts a day per caster level, you or your wizard friend just have to renew it once a week or less.

Terazul
2011-01-10, 02:15 AM
Just make sure your dm isn't one who objects to an extra-dimensional space within an extra dimensional space. If anything goes wrong you really wouldn't want it on your hand.

Nothing's wrong with extra-dimensional storage spaces going together anyway. Only a portable hole and bag of holding have issues going together, everything else doesn't care.

Duncan_Ruadrik
2011-01-10, 02:53 AM
wait... didnt flipping a bag of holding inside out while inside of another bag of holding do something as well?

Everyone knows the portable hole and bag of holding trick. One of the best ways to escape with your character intact, albeit on a different plane and subject to attacks by roving githyanki. but hey, at least you didnt have to fight that bad ass Blackguard and his demon horde. Also, best way to get out of a DM railroading you, if you are partial to such things.

Coidzor
2011-01-10, 02:55 AM
I believe flipping a bag of holding inside out broke it originally and then they changed it with 3.0 to just make it inert and disgorge its contents.

I don't think one could ever nest bags of holding by RAW though.

Darrin
2011-01-10, 07:25 AM
I don't think one could ever nest bags of holding by RAW though.

Well, you're essentially lighting up a huge neon sign that says, "Hey, DM! My character is begging for a screwjob!"

Which is pretty much the intent behind the original "Bag of Holding/Portable Hole" fluff-warning.

Tyndmyr
2011-01-10, 09:08 AM
That's why you have a rope attaching it to your wrist. :smalltongue:

Waist is popular with my group. So long as you're not moving significantly, it shouldn't be a problem. Wrist has been deemed to be a negative circumstance when you have three pistols, a greatsword, and two wands dangling from it.

By pure RAW, you can nest bags of holding. However, ask your DM before trying it. Some live for the day they can find a way to use the bag of holding/portable hole interaction, and aren't fussed about the rules.

Grendus
2011-01-11, 11:23 AM
Nothing's wrong with extra-dimensional storage spaces going together anyway. Only a portable hole and bag of holding have issues going together, everything else doesn't care.

A lot depends on your DM. Some say that it's a extradimensional storage space inside extradimensional storage space reaction, others say it's specific to the bag of holding and portable hole. Then you get the ones who threaten to spawn a sphere of annihilation on you if you do it. Trust me, 10 times worse.

Crow
2011-01-11, 11:40 AM
Waist is popular with my group. So long as you're not moving significantly, it shouldn't be a problem. Wrist has been deemed to be a negative circumstance when you have three pistols, a greatsword, and two wands dangling from it.

I think you guys underestimate how much hip movement you make in a fight. If you've worn a scabbard, you can see how the end of that thing can move. When you take it a step further to objects hanging off your belt by a rope...holy crap.

We've used key holders with retractable chains so we could get access to our keys quickly IRL. The problem is, the keys are so heavy that they don't always retract. A quick movement from point A to point B sends those thing flailing all over the place.

balistafreak
2011-01-11, 12:41 PM
I think you guys underestimate how much hip movement you make in a fight. If you've worn a scabbard, you can see how the end of that thing can move. When you take it a step further to objects hanging off your belt by a rope...holy crap.

We've used key holders with retractable chains so we could get access to our keys quickly IRL. The problem is, the keys are so heavy that they don't always retract. A quick movement from point A to point B sends those thing flailing all over the place.

This. I can't even wear those rubber/silicone/whatever they are sillybands or bracelets because I feel like they're dangling off of my hands.

I don't wear lanyards for the same reason. Heck, I don't even wear my knife on my belt for the same reason.

You try doing anything with a long, unsecured length of cord attached to your waist. (It has to be long, because you're fighting and interacting with it - that's a good three to five feet of play.) See how long it takes you to step on it and fall over.

Also, I feel like there's an Inception joke to make about these bag in a bag in a bag situations, but I haven't actually watched the movie yet...

Doug Lampert
2011-01-11, 03:44 PM
This. I can't even wear those rubber/silicone/whatever they are sillybands or bracelets because I feel like they're dangling off of my hands.

I don't wear lanyards for the same reason. Heck, I don't even wear my knife on my belt for the same reason.

You try doing anything with a long, unsecured length of cord attached to your waist. (It has to be long, because you're fighting and interacting with it - that's a good three to five feet of play.) See how long it takes you to step on it and fall over.

Also, I feel like there's an Inception joke to make about these bag in a bag in a bag situations, but I haven't actually watched the movie yet...

Is there ANY historical record of anyone ACTUALLY tying a weapon to their body? That's an honest question, I don't know.

Shields, yes, large shields were sometimes on straps.

But weapons? Most people REALLY don't want a sharp bit of steel on a rope attached to them when they're moving around quickly (as is often the case in combat).

And as is pointed out above, it needs to be a reasonably long rope, how often do you trip on that? If the rope leads to your belt and is long enough to let you move in combat then it's probably long enough to trip on when walking with the weapon sheathed.

Nor is grabbing a rope and pulling something up one handed really all that much faster or easier than bending down and picking it up.

Really, "All my gear is on ropes" seems not to be particularly rules supported, nor is it particularly realistic, nor does it particularly fit with the heroic genre. Why should any DM allow it to work at all well?

Claudius Maximus
2011-01-11, 05:31 PM
Well now that people are calling me out as a bad DM for this, I guess I'll note that it was a blunt weapon in the hands of a character who only ever let go of it to fire a crossbow while being stationary.

But I can see why you'd think it was taken further, since I did use the tongue smiley, which as we all know implies dead seriousness.