Expedition to Castle Ravenloft: missing information.

[Pigkappa]

Hello, I'm a DM, I'm reading Expedition to Castle Ravenloft and I look forward to use this in my campaign (in the extended version - that is, from level 6 to 9).

I have a rather technical question so I need help from someone who played this adventure or someway knows it very well.


Some important details of the plot are determined by the cards extracted during the encounter with Madame Eva (that's her name in the Italian version, at least). But I can't find some information in the text about some of the results.
For example, if a Green Dragon comes out speaking of the Sun Sword, the sword should be somewhere near the evil nymph's den. But if I read the description of that encounter I can't find where the sword should be. The same happens if the Brass Dragon comes out (the sword should be at the crossroads, where you meet sir Urik) and for some more dragons.
If the Silver Dragon comes out, however, it says that the sword is in the church and in the text about the Church (encounter E7, between pages 26 and 27 in my version of the book) I could actually find the exact location of the Sun Sword if it is there.
The same problem arises for the Crow amulet.

Is this information written in some unthinkable place I should have figured out, or should I just make it up (which could be potentially annoying because I have to find some non-obvious location)?

Thanks for any help :smallsmile:

[Thurbane]

Is this information written in some unthinkable place I should have figured out, or should I just make it up (which could be potentially annoying because I have to find some non-obvious location)?
Hey - I'm getting close to wrapping up the EtCR game I'm currently running.

In regards to the exact location of the items you mention above - no, I don't believe the book tells you exactly where at the listed location the item is to be found. I just winged it...I think I set something like a DC25 search check to find them (mine was at the crossroads). From memory, I said they found it in one of the roadside graves.

[hamlet]

No, exact locations are not always mentioned in the old versions. You, as the DM, were expected to determine a plausible place for them to be. For example, at the roadside the sword could be stashed behind a hedge or some scrub. Nobody would find it if they didn't think to look there.

It's only once you get to the castle that you will find that exact locations are recommended.

If you don't like that, then simply pick a result from the card reading that has an exact location and use it.

[Pigkappa]

I'll try to make up some decent locations for the items, then.


Another question: do you know any site with the encounter's maps without the monsters? This site: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ag/20061031a has the same maps that I can see in the manual, but of course I can't print them and use them for placing miniatures since the PCs don't (usually) know where the monsters are.

[Thurbane]

Unfortunately not. Sometimes you find user made conversion, but not that I've ever seen for EtCR...

Your best best, if you have the time and patience, is to do it yourself with a picture editor.

[Pigkappa]

I started running the campaign and wanted to ask you if you think some new ideas I introduced can ruin it or make it better.

- Madame Eva could give the characters the maps of all floors of Castle Ravenloft, except for the catacombs. She doesn't want the Vistani to know that she did that, so she won't speak about it with the players and will stop them if they start asking questions about it.
I wanted to do this because the castle is huge. I'm not sure I'm able to describe a labyrinth of 100 rooms without going crazy.

- In Bildrath's emporium there's also Bildrath father; he is a very old (age > 80) Sorcerer of level 8 or 9. He's very sick and will not help the PCs, but he can try and make a few simple magic items now and then.
I wanted to do this because they're likely going to stay in Barovia for 3+ levels, and there's nowhere they can even buy a wand of magic missile of whatever (maybe some travelling Vistani can find one but it's unlikely and they should wait a lot of time).

[Project_Mayhem]

You might notice, assuming you are playing the 3.5 version, that the book doesn't actually give a conclusion to the plot anywhere >.>

[Lord Loss]

I don't like the map idea. When I ran it, it was most fun when the players got lost in a dungeon full of creepy crawlers that wanted them dead. I do however like the inclusion of Bildrath's father. It's flavorful and provides the PCs with a source of good weapons.

[Pigkappa]

I don't like the map idea. When I ran it, it was most fun when the players got lost in a dungeon full of creepy crawlers that wanted them dead.

Mmmm you may have a point. I'll think about it. Maybe I won't give them the maps for now but let them know someway that the Vistanis could find some unreliable maps of the castle - for a price.

Too bad Bildrath's father isn't going to be much useful. I think the psychopath PC will try for some reason to kill him (their first encounter went really bad...). I'm not going to provide them another source of magic items if he dies.

[Pigkappa]

Aren't the PC doomed if the Tome of Strahd ends up being in Strahd's crypt? They could go there at level 9; it's surely going to be a TPK at level 6.

[Tokiko Mima]

It would only be an issue if Strahd was decreed to be there in his tomb. Otherwise, the CR10 traps are still there, but the tomb guardian doesn't activate. If they do have to fight him there, it might be a good idea to leave recovering the Tome till they're ready to face Strahd.

Side note: Is there a "Concluding this Adventure" section anywhere in errata or something? Because after the fight with Strahd in his tomb it says to refer to the section on concluding the adventure, but I'm pretty sure it's not in the book.

[Pigkappa]

I'm going to play this module again with a new group soon. Since I have some time to prepare (> 1 month before we start, and it's summer!), I'm trying to fix many of the problems in the module.

The one that's really troubling me now is the following: what happens if the players let Baba Zelenna summon the Demon? This sounds really likely; if they found out that the vampires want them to attack the hag, they could just let her be.

[Togath]

looking over my copy of it, I can't find anything about what happens if the PCs don't stop the witches., Nor can I find anything about concluding the adventure once Strahd is dead, it just says "if the PCs defeat Strahd by ultimately destroying him, refer to the conclusion of this adventure", but lacks any part of the book explaining that part

[Pigkappa]

There's nothing in the book and not even a good reason for the PCs to go to Lysaga when there's a New Moon. I'm looking for ideas to make the module better. For example, I'm adding a few characters to Barovia.

[Togath]

One idea I did/am using is to include the following somewhere in the letter the PCs receive; "she has been cursed by the witches who gather on mount Lysaga on the new moon's night",
I've also made it so in order to cure the villagers already infected by the plague, The PCs have to go and collect an herb in the swamp(giving the PCs a reason to head to the swamp), I'm also using the "untamed allies" part of the adventure and am planning on having a few packs of were-wolves attempting to raid the village, soon after the plague is cured(giving the PCs a reason to fight the were-wolves), In addition I'm also planning on having a few winter wolves, and a thrym hound that has allied with the witches guarding the mountain(in order to make the mountain portion of the adventure more detailed, as it is presented in the module, it only has a single encounter).

[Pigkappa]

One idea I did/am using is to include the following somewhere in the letter the PCs receive; "she has been cursed by the witches who gather on mount Lysaga on the new moon's night",

Since I'm using both the hags and werewolves hooks, the letter is already really long. However, the Vistani and Sasha (she won't act as a fiend, at least in Barovia) will mention the hags meeting on the new moon's night, and maybe Madame Eva will too.




I've also made it so in order to cure the villagers already infected by the plague, The PCs have to go and collect an herb in the swamp(giving the PCs a reason to head to the swamp)

Nice idea, I'll consider it. My idea to send them to the swamp is make the Drowned Lady the one who knows where the ritual to awaken the Sunsword must be performed, instead of Madame Eva. After all, the book says something like this on page 49 ("trapped in her warped mind is the secret of how to unlock the powers of the Sunsword"). I still have to figure out a cool way to unlock the powers of the Sunsword, however.




I'm also using the "untamed allies" part of the adventure and am planning on having a few packs of were-wolves attempting to raid the village, soon after the plague is cured(giving the PCs a reason to fight the were-wolves)

That's why I'm adding a few characters (a blacksmith and his family, an old sorcerer) that can become friendly with the PCs. When some of them die an horrible death because of the werewolves, the PCs are going to have a great reason (i.e. vengeance) to walk into the forest.



I'm also planning on having a few winter wolves, and a thrym hound that has allied with the witches guarding the mountain(in order to make the mountain portion of the adventure more detailed, as it is presented in the module, it only has a single encounter).

I'm making Baba Zelenna the one who knows how to unlock the powers of the Ravenkind Symbol to make her a more useful character. However, she will ask Madame Eva's head in change.
The only way to avoid this will be to ask Kolyan Indirovich using "Speak with Dead", since he's already spoken about this with Baba Zelenna. But the PCs will need to think about this, and casting a Necromancy spell is always dangerous (I'm using some rules from the Ravenloft Player Handbook).

[Togath]

One thing I did to shorten the letter(I am using both the hooks like you, along with some of the non-letter hooks) was to have one or two hooks sent by Strahd, and have the others be sent by things such as a country wanting to reopen trade routes through Barovia that were closed due to the undead plague, another was having Helene Maurgen send a letter to the PCs saying she would offer payment if they can help find out what has happened to her husband.

[Pigkappa]

How did Strahd send the hooks?


I'm using the Helene Margen and Sunsword (and a few more I made up) hooks in a weird way. Each PC will be encouraged to choose one of them at the start of the adventure, so that everyone will have a reason to go to Barovia. They will travel there together because they heard the place is dangerous. I had to do this because we're going to start the campaign with this module, so I also needed a reason for the PCs to make a party.

[Togath]

The initiatial letter is sent by Strahd, but labeled as being sent by the Burgomaster, so I had both th witches and were-wolves ones in the same letter by placing the following after the statement about the forest and the statement of;
"Killing many, And leaving many more wounded";
"To make matters worse my dear daughter Ireena Kolyana has been struck down by a terrible ailment; She has been cursed by the witches who gather on mount Lysaga on the New moon's night, and wastes away under their foul black magic"
I also omitted "the love of my life; Ireena Kolyana" because it seemed like too much of a clue to my PCs that her father didn't write the letter.

[Coidzor]

That's why I'm adding a few characters (a blacksmith and his family, an old sorcerer) that can become friendly with the PCs. When some of them die an horrible death because of the werewolves, the PCs are going to have a great reason (i.e. vengeance) to walk into the forest.

Traveling from place to place in order to get to the bottom of what's going on so they can survive and escape the region isn't enough?


I'm making Baba Zelenna the one who knows how to unlock the powers of the Ravenkind Symbol to make her a more useful character. However, she will ask Madame Eva's head in change.
The only way to avoid this will be to ask Kolyan Indirovich using "Speak with Dead", since he's already spoken about this with Baba Zelenna. But the PCs will need to think about this, and casting a Necromancy spell is always dangerous (I'm using some rules from the Ravenloft Player Handbook).

Are you sure you want to encourage this kind of behavior in your players? You've already mentioned you're having issues with a player just deciding to murder prominent NPCs because he's bored/prissy.

[Thurbane]

There's nothing in the book and not even a good reason for the PCs to go to Lysaga when there's a New Moon. I'm looking for ideas to make the module better. For example, I'm adding a few characters to Barovia.
The way I got the PCs to stop the summoning was by Madam Eva giving them a (not so) gentle nudge in that direction after they had befriended her. There's a fierce rivalry between the hags (particularly Eva and the other two), so I felt it totally in character for her to use the PCs to wreck her sisters plans...

[Pigkappa]

Traveling from place to place in order to get to the bottom of what's going on so they can survive and escape the region isn't enough?

I hope they won't start going everywhere for no reason just to look for clues. Going deep into the forest if you don't have to deal with the werewolves would be a really random and really stupid action.



Are you sure you want to encourage this kind of behavior in your players? You've already mentioned you're having issues with a player just deciding to murder prominent NPCs because he's bored/prissy.

I'm going to start playing again with a totally different group. The players will be intelligent guys this time.



The way I got the PCs to stop the summoning was by Madam Eva giving them a (not so) gentle nudge in that direction after they had befriended her. There's a fierce rivalry between the hags (particularly Eva and the other two), so I felt it totally in character for her to use the PCs to wreck her sisters plans...

I'm afraid they could kill Baba Zelenna before the ritual starts, however. This is more or less what happened when I played the campaign the first time. I think I'll solve the problem this way:

1)Most people in the village will say the hags in Lysaga haven't done anything bad lately, so the PCs will ignore Baba Zelenna, for now.
2)They go to Madame Eva and she tells them where the Sunsword is.
3)They find the Sunsword.
4)They go to Madame Eva (or cast a Divination spell) and she tells them that the Drowned Lady is the only one who knows how to unlock the sword's powers, but she has gone crazy.
5)They hear some rumors about the hags summoning a demon in the new moon's night, but that's uncertain information.
6)They kill the Drowned Lady and cast Speak with Dead upon her (or force her to speak in some other way; I still have to think about this), and she tells them the sword will work once again if it's used to kill a demonic creature.

If they investigate, they can find out there are demons in the castle, but they are extremely dangerous. So, they can let the hags start the summoning to attack the demonic aspect, or they can go hunting for Lucian in the castle; I think the first option is easier. They could also need to keep Baba Zelenna alive to find out how to unlock the powers of the Ravenkind Symbol (though it can be done without involving her too).

[Coidzor]

I hope they won't start going everywhere for no reason just to look for clues. Going deep into the forest if you don't have to deal with the werewolves would be a really random and really stupid action.

Huh. Maybe my DM was just bad at presenting the geography of Barovia, but we had to go pretty deep into the forest in order to get to the Vistani camp to visit Madame Eva, to get from ANYWHERE to get to the swamp, to get to the place where the guy we had entered Barovia to find in the first place had ended up getting lost after getting our readings done by Madame Eva, to get to the meeting place of the coven...

About the only place we didn't need to go through a significant stretch of forest to get to was the church when we went to clear that out & then back to bury the burgomaster, because we forgot that good clerics can cast speak with dead.

Then again, we decided to seek out the werewolves in order to get info about what their beef with us in particular was, since they were actually waiting for us when we first entered the valley... & to see if we could remind them that they hated Strahd a whole lot more than us.

[Pigkappa]

Huh. Maybe my DM was just bad at presenting the geography of Barovia, but we had to go pretty deep into the forest in order to get to the Vistani camp to visit Madame Eva


http://tonytoon.home.insightbb.com/images/barovia_playersmap.jpg

You just need to follow the road to reach the Tser Pool (and therefore Madame Eva)...

[Coidzor]

http://tonytoon.home.insightbb.com/images/barovia_playersmap.jpg

You just need to follow the road to reach the Tser Pool (and therefore Madame Eva)...

He definitely seems to have upped the shadowy woods to 11 then.

Interesting bit of reference there though. I'd somehow gotten the idea that the castle was mostly east and a little south of the town & then the swamp was way to the southeast with the Vistani & coven being more north-central to eastern north central.

[Pigkappa]

I've edited most of the maps (freely available from the WotC site) so that they are usable in combat. That is, most monsters and traps have been deleted and the players can't see them.

This was a poor job done using Paint, so it's often possible to find out where the monsters are by looking carefully at the maps. It's still better than using the original ones, anyway.

Since they are quite little, using miniatures for Medium-sized creatures is hard or impossible. I've been using little paper pieces for them and it worked right. These maps are really good to speed up combat.

The .rar collection is in the spoiler:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=2D2AFS53