Spell-less Assassin?

[Saint GoH]

Pretty much whats on the tin.

I ask you, homebrewers, what would be fair to grant the Assassin (found in DMG page 180) instead of a small spell list?

Feats perhaps? Increased SA? Maneuvers from ToB?

I found a few alternate Assassin's on the interwebs, but none really caught my fancy. I figured (while I have little to add) ye Olde Homebrew Playgrounders would have a decent idea of what is fair and "balanced" to replace the spell list with.

[Welknair]

I'm having great fun with the Angel of Death (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62659).

[Keinnicht]

Suggestions off the top of my head. Not all of these at once, obviously, just ideas.

1. More sneak attack progression.
2. Better base attack bonus
3. Hide in Plain Sight class feature.
4. Bonuses on Craft (Poisonmaking) checks
5. Ability to make secret assassin poisons (That you'll have to think of) that are better than regular poisons of the same DC/or have a really high DC.
6. Ability to use invisibility or greater invisibility some number of times per day as a spell-like ability.
7. Ability to inflict negative levels/ability damage with their death attack, in addition to the normal paralysis/death options.
8. Ability to use a death attack without studying the target once per day.
9. Ability to use death attacks and sneak attacks on creatures normally immune to these things (Unless you houseruled out those creatures.)

[Saint GoH]

I'm having great fun with the Angel of Death (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62659).

I saw this, and I find it to be wonderfully delicious, yet I feel the stances it grants will make me never want for another. As in, I see ALMOST no other purpose in being in a stance other then Stance of Death or Angel's Edge.


Suggestions off the top of my head. Not all of these at once, obviously, just ideas.

1. More sneak attack progression.
2. Better base attack bonus
3. Hide in Plain Sight class feature.
4. Bonuses on Craft (Poisonmaking) checks
5. Ability to make secret assassin poisons (That you'll have to think of) that are better than regular poisons of the same DC/or have a really high DC.
6. Ability to use invisibility or greater invisibility some number of times per day as a spell-like ability.
7. Ability to inflict negative levels/ability damage with their death attack, in addition to the normal paralysis/death options.
8. Ability to use a death attack without studying the target once per day.
9. Ability to use death attacks and sneak attacks on creatures normally immune to these things (Unless you houseruled out those creatures.)

Why not all at once? :smalltongue: But seriously. I find the lack of BAB to not be that painful since most attacks are either Death Attacks or Sneak attacks. I'm leaning towards HiPS and SA Progression, and perhaps even the super secret extra special Assassin's Poison's.

[Roderick_BR]

If you want to take the spells away, I suggest you either make HiPS, Death Attack, and Poison Use into Rogue's special abilities (maybe add some Special Abilities to those dead levels, no pun intended... almost), or give it some better BAB and HD and make it into a more fighting PrC for rogues.

[Popertop]

Angel's Edge seems a little too strong...

But yeah, I like the idea of an assassin without spells,
especially since an assassin having spells didn't make
any sense to me in the first place.

[brujon]

What about giving them the ability to make concentrated versions of poisons?

Could work like this: By spending 25% more of required components and a crafting DC increase (+5), you can make a concentrated version of a poison. The concentrated poison, if used as is, has a increased save DC (+2). Additionally, the assassin can dilute the poison, and double it in quantity.

This way, the assassin has a double use of a skill: He can produce more normal poison, or use a concentrated version of a poison.

Maybe make it possible for the assassin to create even stronger concentrations of poison? every 25% more material and +5 to the craft DC makes it more concentrated, x2, x3, x4... etc... Adding more and more to the DC, and of course, making it so it can be diluted further.

This would make it so that even cheaper poisons can be deadly in the hands of a skilled assassin, and more expensive poisons (Black Lotus Extract), can even be a source of income at higher levels.

If going even more deeply with the poison theme, make it so that at higher levels, assassins can get even more bang for their buck with crafting poisons: He can extract more poison from raw materials by using secret techniques for crafting them.

Thoughts?

[blackmage]

It's a base class instead of a prestige class, but I think the Mundane Assassin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168122) by Realms of Chaos is a very straightforward, spell-less killer. He has a neat variation on Sneak attack, plus regular sneak attack, and gets free use of Ambush feats.

[Zakaroth]

I made a maneuver based assassin some time ago, I hope you dont mind me being so bold to suggest it: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124905

[Temotei]

This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7362908&postcount=1) is a base class based on Assassin's Creed assassins. It might give you some ideas, or it might be what you want.

[Nopraptor]

A good class to base your base class on would be the assassin from "The Assassins Handbook" (by green ronin press) the original only has 4 levels of casting in the first place so it should be pretty easy to replace

[Keinnicht]

Angel's Edge seems a little too strong...


You'd have to be fifteenth level to have that.

At the same level, Wizards can trap people in an extradimensional maze for ten minutes, and Clerics can deal 4D8+15 damage to fifteen creatures.

I don't think it's overpowered by comparison. At all.