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G3N3R3L GHOST
2011-01-10, 10:30 PM
So...Final Fantasy 8 is one of my favorite games of all time. If you were to "make" a gunblade in D&D how would you do so? And please done say a crossbow with a bayonet. I am talking about a two handed melee weapon with the ability to "shoot" high powered shots in addition to its hack and slash abilities.

A cool imagining of mine would be to run one enemy through with the blade portion of the weapon then use the gun to shoot down an enemy standing behind the first enemy. Picture it with me...Yeah awesome haha

:smallbiggrin:

Hadessniper
2011-01-10, 10:38 PM
A somewhat easy way to work it is to enchant a bastard sword with a spell trigger for a refluffed Scorching Ray. I would require it to deal 50 damage as a sword before recharging the spell and I would also limit it to 3 charges a day.

Zaq
2011-01-10, 10:40 PM
A somewhat easy way to work it is to enchant a bastard sword with a spell trigger for a refluffed Hideous Laughter. I would require it to deal 50 damage as a sword before recharging the spell and I would also limit it to 3 charges a day.

Fixed that for you.

(What, can YOU look at one of those things without laughing? No, neither can I—and neither can your foes.)

Hadessniper
2011-01-10, 10:43 PM
Fixed that for you.

(What, can YOU look at one of those things without laughing? No, neither can I—and neither can your foes.)

Hey it's his fantasy world let him play it out the way he wants. But no I couldn't.

~Nye~
2011-01-10, 10:49 PM
Hehe
Well, I've made it before, in terms of damage it's pretty powerful. The campaign I'm running it with is quite high powered with the use of guns in it already. my gunblade does d10 damage, and 2d6 shot damage. In terms of the shot timer that is a problem for me, I don't want to make it too powerful. I was thinking of making it a one handed weapon and making it do d8+2d6 damage.

But on ff8 you need to time the trigger pull, so I wanted to come up with a cool trigger mechanic, I was thinking of doing 40% chance to shoot a target, and that shot chance increases by 2% for every character level. so a level 1 character would have 42% chance to shoot. mechanically, it might seem a bit harsh, but thinking about it, you're swinging a 2hander that does strength and half damage.

My Gunblade character in my campaign is a samurai that does Iajutsu strikes.

G3N3R3L GHOST
2011-01-10, 10:50 PM
Hey it's his fantasy world let him play it out the way he wants. But no I couldn't.

It's just one of my favorite parts of one my favorite RPG's of all time. I wouldn't imagine it would be too funny if you were on the business end of such things. That is a pretty good idea for the firing portion of the blade though. I was thinking either that or somehow imbue the weapon with an elemental who can then make some sort of attack as well.

woodenbandman
2011-01-10, 11:12 PM
statwise: Keen Flaming Burst Longsword.

Flavor as needed.

nyarlathotep
2011-01-10, 11:31 PM
Make it a sword version of a spikard (Magic of Eberron). Put explosive on the crossbow part.

Terazul
2011-01-10, 11:32 PM
statwise: Keen Flaming Burst Longsword.

Flavor as needed.

Basically. Gunblades don't actually shoot anything; You just pull the trigger at the right time to cause the blade to resonate and deal more damage. ie; Crits.

dgnslyr
2011-01-10, 11:38 PM
Basically. Gunblades don't actually shoot anything; You just pull the trigger at the right time to cause the blade to resonate and deal more damage. ie; Crits.

What he said. If you think of it this way, it's a tad less ridiculous.

A Keen Flaming Burst Longsword (or Scimitar, if you want to take advantage of Keen and Flaming Burst more) would do quite well. Fluff as desired.

AslanCross
2011-01-11, 12:53 AM
Make it a sword version of a spikard (Magic of Eberron). Put explosive on the crossbow part.

Actually, I'd think the Alchemy Blade from the same book is closer, but yes, the Spikard (and the more ridiculous hammer) did remind me of the Gunblade.

The Gunblade doesn't really shoot anything though, so I'd think that the keen flaming burst sword does pretty much the same thing; maybe it could have a limited, on-call ability to trigger a crit (maybe a threatened crit) limited by the ammunition in the weapon.

Revolver would only get six shots until reloaded; blades like Punishment would probably get about 12 (or however many shots similar actual guns get). No idea how many Lionheart would get. I was under the impression that it was actually an energy weapon (hence the need for Pulse Ammo in its construction).

Another_Poet
2011-01-11, 02:37 AM
statwise: Keen Flaming Burst Longsword.

Flavor as needed.

I third this.

Tengu_temp
2011-01-11, 03:32 AM
Playable version:
Exotic weapon. Blade: two-handed, 1d10, crit 19-20 x2, Gun: as light crossbow.

Realistic version:
Exotic weapon. Two handed, 1d12, crit x3, -2 to attack rolls due to the unwieldy grip.

Agrippa
2011-01-11, 03:44 AM
If it looked anything like one of these two I might allow it. When I figure the stats out of course.

http://thedarkblade.com/wp-content/uploads/The-High-Roller.jpg
http://www.thomas-galvin.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/GunBlade.jpg

Rainbownaga
2011-01-11, 04:15 AM
Personally I like the way they did it in Parasite Eve 2 (the video game)

It was a 6-chambered (or was it four, i can't remember) shotgun that did about half the normal damage with half the normal range. It could also be used effectively as a melee weapon, but when combined it did a huge amount of damage.

For d&d I'd treat it as a single barreled hybrid of bastard sword and renaissance pistol. Exotic weapon proficiency. -4 penalty to attack as a pistol, once per round you may choose to pull the trigger as part of the attack and if the attack hits the pistol automatically hits (no additional action) and crits (3d10 bonus damage plus enhancements) pistol and sword can/must be enchanted separately.

It's basically adding two weak exotic weapons to make a bizzare but useful one.

Dsurion
2011-01-11, 04:27 AM
I've always liked the FF8 gunblades for being such ridiculous weapons :smallsmile:

I'd have to agree with the whole War spikard/Spear spikard thing. I don't think you're going to get a better representation of the reverberation effect of using a gunblade. I'd probably have Squall's Revolver essentially have the stats of a bastard sword, and have Seifer's Hyperion be either a shortsword or longsword. I don't recall it's exact length, but I remember it used a pistol-grip, and then just allow both to use the "spikard" ability. Just refluff it as working as they do in FF8.

TheMeMan
2011-01-11, 04:32 AM
Playable version:
Exotic weapon. Blade: two-handed, 1d10, crit 19-20 x2, Gun: as light crossbow.

Realistic version:
Exotic weapon. Two handed, 1d12, crit x3, -2 to attack rolls due to the unwieldy grip.

Frankly, to reign in the complete ridiculousness of the weapon, you would have to factor in having to actually clean the bloody thing every day as all those bodily fluids would gunk up the works, creating the possibility of failure.

So...

Something along the lines of a cumulative 10% failure chance each day that one does not clean the gun. Cleaning said gun takes 1 hour.

Failure would mean an explosion, say 10 ft. radius blast that deals 4d6 damage, and the gun is destroyed.

That's what I would do, at least.

Rainbownaga
2011-01-11, 04:42 AM
Playable version:
Exotic weapon. Blade: two-handed, 1d10, crit 19-20 x2, Gun: as light crossbow.

Realistic version:
Exotic weapon. Two handed, 1d12, crit x3, -2 to attack rolls due to the unwieldy grip.

How is it 2-handed? The sword only has a pistol grip.

(Realistically it would be, but theoretically it should at least be one-handable)

Coidzor
2011-01-11, 05:34 AM
It's basically a flaming burst sword that only does the fire damage when it crits, or rather, when the trigger is pulled which depends upon timing/chance and doesn't depend upon ammo as such.

So, in order to fit it's going to have to be altered in some way, maybe by having it take ammo that acts as a burst of elemental energy that activates as a swift or free action as part of a blow before it connects, as a 10% chance to activate the fiery burst seems a bit low. Maybe with Keen added on it'd be a closer approximation, since it'd be a 20% chance which isn't too far from the percentage chance of hitting most level appropriate enemies that have good AC for their CR.

But even that's fairly imprecise. Still, it is less work than determining the cost and how much damage is appropriate for the ammo and what elements/effects are kosher though.

Tengu_temp
2011-01-11, 06:14 AM
How is it 2-handed? The sword only has a pistol grip.

(Realistically it would be, but theoretically it should at least be one-handable)

It's a rather big gun, and Squall wields it two-handed in combat. Do note that in real life, pistols are usually fired with two hands as well.

AslanCross
2011-01-11, 08:12 AM
How is it 2-handed? The sword only has a pistol grip.

(Realistically it would be, but theoretically it should at least be one-handable)

http://www.dissidia-france.com/img/personnages/exm/squall.png

While yes, it can be held in one hand, Squall slashes with it two-handed. At least Squall's weapon has the grip on roughly the same axis as the blade, unlike Seifer's. (Seifer uses it exclusively one-handed)

http://www.estarland.com/images/products/54/28754/50200.jpg

stainboy
2011-01-11, 08:22 AM
I'd call Squall's gunblade a bastard sword/pistol, using the Renaissance weapons from the DMG. The gunblade doesn't have its own proficiency feats. It works off of bastard sword proficiency in melee, and EWP: Firearms at range. That explains why Squall swings the thing two-handed and Seifer swings one-handed: Squall never took EWP: Bastard Sword. (Or Squall's strength is at least 14, and since he has his offhand free anyway he wants the 1.5x Strength on damage.)

If you want to stab somebody and then pull the trigger for extra damage, or run through one target and then cleave into a shot against another target, make feats for that. Here's an attempt at it as a combat style feat (spoilered for length).

Gunblade Expert [Combat Style]
Prerequisites: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword or proficiency in all martial weapons, Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Firearms, Power Attack, Cleave

You have learned to combine melee attacks with shots from your gunblade. A fighter may select Gunblade Expert as one of her fighter bonus feats.

Gunblade Thrust: To use Gunblade Thrust you must make an attack during a round in which you have declared at least a -3 attack penalty from Power Attack. Your attack deals piercing damage instead of its normal damage type (slashing).
Thrust Shot: To use Thrust Shot, you must make an attack as part of a full attack action immediately following a successful Gunblade Thrust against the same target. Make the attack using your gunblade's ranged attack. The attack suffers no attack roll penalty from Power Attack but adds your Power Attack bonus to damage. A Thrust Shot does not provoke an attack of opportunity.
Gunblade Cleave: When you make an attack granted by the Cleave feat, you may choose to attack with your gunblade's ranged attack against any target outside of your threatened area but within 30'.

GodGoblin
2011-01-11, 08:30 AM
Have you looked into the Vulcarian Thunderclub? (Spelling may be wrong) Its a greatclub with an explosive shotgun thing in the end. Maybe change it into a sword and you got a big gunsword :smallbiggrin:

Yuki Akuma
2011-01-11, 12:13 PM
Fun Fact: Gunblades are not purely from the realm of fantasy. They are actual weapons.

They used the explosive charge to make the blade resonate. They weren't particularly effective.

I'd say 1d8 damage, 19-20 crit range, x3 crit. Maybe a special ability that lets them prompt a critical threat on any roll, restricted by ammunition.

Also: gunblades are not ranged weapons. Any time Squall uses his gunblade at range he's casting a freaking spell.

Fox Box Socks
2011-01-11, 01:09 PM
I don't understand why realism is even entering into this discussion. Getting into an honest to god sword fight with a gunblade is a fantastic way to shatter your wrist.

My vote goes to reflavoring the keen flaming burst longsword.

Sipex
2011-01-11, 01:21 PM
I've statted up something quickly for 4th edition which might do the trick.

Gunblade +(1,2,3,4,5,6) - (Lv 6,11,16,21,26,30)
Your sword is affixed with a firing mechanism which allows you to deal extra damage at close range.
Weapon: Any heavy blade Crit: +1d8 per plus
Daily Power (free):
As part of an attack make a second attack roll versus Reflex against the same target. This attack roll benefits from all the same bonuses as the blade.
Attack: Dex vs Reflex
Hit: 1d8 + Dexterity Modifier damage
(2d8 + DEX @ lvl 16/21, 3d8 + DEX @ lvl 26/30)
Effect: On a critical hit this attack deals full damage but no additional critical damage.

It's a bit overpowered but otherwise it would just be a flaming burst weapon without a damage type attached.

edit: This is due to the poster not specifying plus it sounded like a fun project

Zen Monkey
2011-01-11, 01:27 PM
They actually existed in 2E. I think it was in Ravenloft. They were based on a failed French design of a rapier with a pistol grip. Once the target was stabbed, you pull the trigger to fire a shot point-blank for extra damage. You might be able to find them with a search of 2E firearms rules.

grimbold
2011-01-11, 03:07 PM
you may want to use the DM handbooks pistol for the gun bit
page 145 i believe

Tengu_temp
2011-01-11, 03:10 PM
Also: gunblades are not ranged weapons. Any time Squall uses his gunblade at range he's casting a freaking spell.

Actually, Lightning from FF13 uses a gunblade as well, and it's both a melee and a ranged weapon. It's a different design, more high-tech and clearly one-handed, but still a gunblade.

Sipex
2011-01-11, 03:43 PM
Oh yeah, that kind of gunblade would be much more entertaining to use. You'd have an weapon which could swap forms as (for D&D 4) a minor action.

I don't know what it would translate to in D&D 3.5 terms though. Transform at the start of an attack as a swift action? (ie: If you're firing the gun, as part of the attack you change it to a gun and vice-versa)

Kobold-Bard
2011-01-11, 03:44 PM
Actually, Lightning from FF13 uses a gunblade as well, and it's both a melee and a ranged weapon. It's a different design, more high-tech and clearly one-handed, but still a gunblade.

Can't do both at the same time though. Essentially all you need for the FF13 one is a sword, a gun, the Quick Draw Feat and a bit of fluff.

Greenish
2011-01-11, 03:50 PM
Oh yeah, that kind of gunblade would be much more entertaining to use. You'd have an weapon which could swap forms as (for D&D 4) a minor action.

I don't know what it would translate to in D&D 3.5 terms though. Transform at the start of an attack as a swift action? (ie: If you're firing the gun, as part of the attack you change it to a gun and vice-versa)I'm not sure (not having seen the weapon in question) why it would require an action to swap, since you'll be using the same weapon, albeit in a different way (ref. elvencraft bow, bladed crossbow).

Sipex
2011-01-11, 04:00 PM
Oh, I didn't know of any weapons which have the ability to change so I didn't have anything to base it off of. If others allow a free action then I don't see the harm in it.

Greenish
2011-01-11, 04:11 PM
Oh, I didn't know of any weapons which have the ability to change so I didn't have anything to base it off of.They don't change in any way. They just can be used in both melee and ranged interchangeably.

Coidzor
2011-01-11, 05:32 PM
Actually, Lightning from FF13 uses a gunblade as well, and it's both a melee and a ranged weapon. It's a different design, more high-tech and clearly one-handed, but still a gunblade.

Still a "gunblade," but not the kind of gunblade that was featured in FF8 that the OP wants.

Ravens_cry
2011-01-11, 05:45 PM
Hmm, what about putting the Fleshgrinding enhancement on it? That seems to fit the idea behind how a gunblade is supposed to work.

ajkkjjk52
2011-01-11, 06:13 PM
Fun Fact: Gunblades are not purely from the realm of fantasy. They are actual weapons.

They used the explosive charge to make the blade resonate.

I've seen this argument before in threads like this, and I just don't buy it. I've never seen anything like this in historical texts or museums, and I can't even find a single half-reputable source on the internet. This idea got invented by FF fans, and has been propagated since, but no such weapon was used historically.

Main reason: why is a resonating weapon good? It's good at breaking your wrist maybe, jerking it out of your hand, or massively decreasing your ability to control the damn thing, but somehow putting the blade into a harmonic resonance would not cause more damage in any way I can think of. Also, if you wanted to set up resonance it would be far more dependent on a precise amount of powder in an incredibly carefully milled barrel with a very carefully tuned blade; timing it to when you hit a person would have nothing to do with it. In fact, the sudden deceleration would make it harder to get a resonance.

Now, there were some blades with guns attatched (http://bit.ly/ibCKY2, for instance), but you used them separately, since guns of the time took forever to reload. This way, after you shot one guy you weren't unarmed because you at least had a knife. They never got much use (more common was turning the butt into a club as http://bit.ly/g9mo3m) because the blade tended to hamper the shot (Since the bullet was smaller than the diameter of the barrel, it bounced down the barrel when the gun was fired, leaving the barrel in an essentially random direction and often striking the blade) and the explosion of the shot weakened the metal of the blade, often cracking it after a few uses.

In short a "historical" gunblade, such as a thing existed, was a low quality flintlock pistol or carbine with a low-quality bayonet. None of this "shoot right as you hit them and it turns into a vibroblade from starwars" bullsh*t.

Yuki Akuma
2011-01-11, 06:15 PM
I never said it was a good weapon. Just that some people had the bright idea to make them.

Coidzor
2011-01-11, 07:04 PM
Hmm, what about putting the Fleshgrinding enhancement on it? That seems to fit the idea behind how a gunblade is supposed to work.

I dunno, fleshgrinding means you leave the weapon stuck in someone, so you can't use it against someone else while it's stuck in them doing damage to them. Great for something that you can quickdraw multiple weapons of and afford the enchantment on all of 'em, not so good as an approximation of the gunblade from FF8...

Also, Squall's gunblade doesn't vibrate, it causes an explosion of fire when he pulls the trigger with proper timing.

Dsurion
2011-01-11, 07:09 PM
I don't know what it would translate to in D&D 3.5 terms though. Transform at the start of an attack as a swift action? (ie: If you're firing the gun, as part of the attack you change it to a gun and vice-versa)
Not exactly what you're thinking, as it's not a ranged weapon, but you propose an interesting idea.

Would it be feasible to say you could expend your swift action after you declare your attack to get the extra damage?

Coidzor
2011-01-11, 07:13 PM
Would it be feasible to say you could expend your swift action after you declare your attack to get the extra damage?

The only real issue with that is that one can only use it for one attack out of a full attack action.

And whether the added on effects of flaming, flaming burst, or a completely custom effect model it better.

Keinnicht
2011-01-11, 07:15 PM
Fun Fact: Gunblades are not purely from the realm of fantasy. They are actual weapons.

They used the explosive charge to make the blade resonate. They weren't particularly effective.

Do you have a link for that? I did multiple googles and couldn't find anything other than random people on other forums claiming gunblades were real.

Xuc Xac
2011-01-11, 09:50 PM
Fun Fact: Gunblades are not purely from the realm of fantasy. They are actual weapons.


True.


They used the explosive charge to make the blade resonate.


Absolutely false.



They weren't particularly effective.


True again. Gunblades in history were typically a melee weapon with a holdout pistol strapped to it or a gun with a big bayonet. The first kind wasn't a very good gun and was mainly used to ensure that you could draw first blood in a melee (while the other guy is still out of reach) rather than outright kill the other guy. Wounding the other guy before you close is a good way to tip the odds in your favor in a one on one sword fight. The second kind was a better gun, but the bayonet was a backup weapon and not as good as a regular dedicated melee weapon.

There are plenty of examples of combination weapons that were good at melee and bad at range. My favorites are a mace with a shotgun barrel for a shaft and a battle ax with musket barrel for a handle. There are also plenty that were good at range and bad in melee (like the awkwardly bayoneted pistols). There are even more examples that were terrible at both but looked cool (these things were the 16th century equivalent of spinning rims and neon lights on cars). There aren't any combination weapons that were good at both.

Rainbownaga
2011-01-11, 11:52 PM
Still a "gunblade," but not the kind of gunblade that was featured in FF8 that the OP wants.

Actually, the Gunblade from PE2 (another game by square/ennix) that I referenced in my earlier post was an Easter Egg replica of the one from FF8. It can shoot but does it badly (short range/damage).

Coidzor
2011-01-12, 12:50 AM
Actually, the Gunblade from PE2 (another game by square/ennix) that I referenced in my earlier post was an Easter Egg replica of the one from FF8. It can shoot but does it badly (short range/damage).

It can shoot, thus it's not the one from FF8 which demonstrates no shooting ability, merely the ability to cause explosions.

Dr.Epic
2011-01-12, 01:08 AM
Okay, does the gunblade actually work as a gun? I've never played the game and my knowledge of it all comes from the Spoony One's review of the game (a wrist mounted dog shooter or a magic volleyball that turns enemies to stone seem like the much better weapon!)so I'm not sure if it works as a firearm. Either way, given the grip and that it combines two weapons that are very different, I'd say it'd be an exotic weapons and reload would take some time given the awkward positioning of the blade.

Coidzor
2011-01-12, 01:25 AM
Okay, does the gunblade actually work as a gun?

Not in game as far as the player can tell. When used in combat it's used entirely like a sword with a weird grip in the opening FMV and I don't believe it's used in any other FMVs in the game.

In combat it acts as a regular sword and slashes the enemy except when the player presses R1 at the right time before impact, whereupon the trigger is pressed and the gun causes a small explosion/fireball.

I feel this is best approximated to a use-activated version of the burst part of flaming burst or something along similar lines. Spell-storing doesn't have near enough uses to really give it an honest go without some kind of enchantment or property such that it can store multiple spells, and the main alternative to that one would be ammo that is swift-action activated as part of an attack to cause a burst of elemental damage, that requires homebrewing though.

Come to think of it, actually.... :smallbiggrin: I think there was some kind of alchemical weapons chambers in dungeonscape which allowed one to do something similar. So maybe it's a weapon that simply allows one to have, say, 6 or 8 alchemical weapons capsules loaded at a time. Which could make it into a hilt modification/weapon template rather than an extra unnecessary hoop of making it an exotic weapon.

dgnslyr
2011-01-12, 01:25 AM
In FF8, gunblades do NOT fire projectiles- the correct timing of trigger-pulls create vibrations, which enhances the cutting power, like a Star Wars vibroblade. It also creates a nice explosion, though mostly just for graphical effect and for feedback for the player. This makes about as much sense as you think it does.

The absence of actual ammunition, however, does not stop a suitably trained gunblade-wielder (or suitably-armed, I should say) from firing an enormous beam of energy visible from space and subsequently striking your target with said beam. Again, this makes about as much sense as you think it does. Limit Breaks are always over the top anyways, though, so it's basically par for the course.

Reluctance
2011-01-12, 01:26 AM
Gunblades in FF8 never shot anything. References in later games could. Since we're pulling stuff out of our posteriors for the OP anyways, I see no need to stay too faithful to the base game. (Where gunblades just meant that criticals for certain characters were controlled by player timing instead of dumb luck. Guaranteeing criticals as a weapon property strikes me as tricky to balance.)

The thing I'd be most careful about with gunblades is that working, effective gunblades imply working, effective guns. Melding a bastard sword to a modern gun and calling it a day is the quick and dirty method. You then have to explain how the character can reasonably pick up modern ammo, though.

Dr.Epic
2011-01-12, 01:32 AM
Not in game as far as the player can tell. When used in combat it's used entirely like a sword with a weird grip in the opening FMV and I don't believe it's used in any other FMVs in the game.


In FF8, gunblades do NOT fire projectiles


Gunblades in FF8 never shot anything.

Then what does the gun part do?

This? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVFXgk4ldu0&feature=related) (wait for about a minute 20 into it)

Coidzor
2011-01-12, 01:34 AM
In FF8, gunblades do NOT fire projectiles- the correct timing of trigger-pulls create vibrations, which enhances the cutting power, like a Star Wars vibroblade. It also creates a nice explosion, though mostly just for graphical effect and for feedback for the player. This makes about as much sense as you think it does.

Ok, so maybe Collision then to model the vibration's extra cutting too.


The absence of actual ammunition, however, does not stop a suitably trained gunblade-wielder (or suitably-armed, I should say) from firing an enormous beam of energy visible from space and subsequently striking your target with said beam. Again, this makes about as much sense as you think it does. Limit Breaks are always over the top anyways, though, so it's basically par for the course.

Considering the weapon itself isn't going to be replicating the limit break (that's strictly homebrew territory for class features time), the limit breaks are largely irrelevant if all they are is lazers and slashing.

dgnslyr
2011-01-12, 01:34 AM
Magic, obviously! :smallbiggrin:
In DnD-land, it's magically powered. It doesn't actually need to fire anything solid, so it could be a property of this exotic weapon. Or, if you don't mind refluffing and reflavoring as needed, a Keen Flaming Burst longsword would work.

Also, OP mentioned FF8, so I'd lean more towards that interpretation than, say, FF13.

Smeggedoff
2011-01-12, 01:38 AM
They actually existed in 2E. I think it was in Ravenloft. They were based on a failed French design of a rapier with a pistol grip. Once the target was stabbed, you pull the trigger to fire a shot point-blank for extra damage. You might be able to find them with a search of 2E firearms rules.

Fairly sure they were included in the 3.0 update of Ravenloft too, I remember seeing them when we played our game.

Arbitrarious
2011-01-12, 02:00 AM
Here's what I'm thinking, thoughts?

Gunblade

Gunblade is an enhancement that can be added to any masterwork melee weapon of at least small size, though as the name indicates bladed weapons such as swords are most common. The process installs a small, powerful ranged component into the weapon's design. The weapon can be used in melee as normal or used as a ranged weapon (see table). During a full attack you can use both the melee and range aspects of the weapon interchangeably. Ranged attacks made with a gunblade provoke as normal. The ranged and melee components of the weapon must be enchanted separately, much like the heads of a double weapon. The material properties of the weapon do not affect the ranged portion, but you can use special ammunition (see below). On a successful critical hit from the melee weapon the gun also discharges dealing damage equal to single ranged attack to the target, no attack roll is needed but DR and resistances apply as normal. A gunblade contains a number of shots before it must be reloaded. Reloading a gunblade is a standard action. You can buy a spare magazine or reloader for a gunblade for 150gp. Using a such a device reduces the reload time to a move action. Spare magazines and reloaders require full round actions to reload.

Ammunition is sold in packs of 10 and is 2 gp per pack. Use standard rules for pricing special materials on ammunition.

{table] Weapon Size | Damage | Range | Magazine | Cost
Small | 1d4 | 20 ft. | 4 | +1,450 gp
Medium | 1d6 | 30 ft. | 6 | +1,800 gp
Large | 1d8 | 30ft. | 10 | +2,000gp
Above Large | as normal for increased size | 30 ft. | +2 per size | +200 gp per size
[/table]

dgnslyr
2011-01-12, 02:05 AM
Seems usable. Does using the gun require any particular proficiencies? What about an accuracy penalty, since it's definitely not a standard gun, and the barrel might not be as long as it should.

Also, why does having a bigger gun equate to a bigger magazine? The bullets used would also be bigger, wouldn't they, unless, of course, I'm less sane than I think I am. It happens a lot, especially late at night, when I should be studying for FINALS. :smallfurious:

Arbitrarious
2011-01-12, 02:09 AM
Seems usable. Does using the gun require any particular proficiencies? What about an accuracy penalty, since it's definitely not a standard gun, and the barrel might not be as long as it should.

Also, why does having a bigger gun equate to a bigger magazine? The bullets used would also be bigger, wouldn't they, unless, of course, I'm less sane than I think I am. It happens a lot, especially late at night, when I should be studying for FINALS. :smallfurious:

Not sure about proficiencies, I'm gonna say no since I was basing it all on a crossbow. Maybe martial? Also not worrying about barrel length, etc. As far as magazine size since you are installing the gun into a weapon it seemed reasonable that larger weapons could accommodate larger magazines. Open to suggestions. I popped that out in like 10 min.

AmberVael
2011-01-12, 01:47 PM
Do you have a link for that? I did multiple googles and couldn't find anything other than random people on other forums claiming gunblades were real.

Wikipedia knows all. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pistol_Sword)

Even more bizarre than pistol swords, in my mind, are pistol katara. They're mentioned on that linked page.

Never underestimate human ability to try something that is incredibly foolish and silly.

Gnoman
2011-01-12, 03:02 PM
There is (or used to be, not sure if it's still around) a full (somewhat crude) FF8 game for the D20 system. Here's how that handled gunblades.


Gunblade

The gunblade combines a sword and a short-range firearm. Think of a gun with a long sword starting from around the barrel, and you have a rough idea of what a gunblade looks like. Each gunblade is unique, designed and built for the wielder. The design varies according to the style the wielder uses. Examples of styles included in designs for powerful sword swings, like Squall's gunblade, or for faster fencing-ish style combat, like Seifer's gunblade.

Using the gunblade requires WP sword and EWP gunblade. Triggering the weapons provides a -2 penalty to attack roll. Also, due to the unique nature of each gunblade, anyone who uses the gunblade that isn't the original owner receives a -6 penalty to all attacks, and a -12 if they use the trigger on the attack. These penalties are in addition to any incurred for not having EWP gunblade.

Triggered damage can be changed with the ammo type used. Fast Ammo and Shotgun Ammo are not usable in gunblades.

Ammo Effects with gunblade
Normal Ammo 1d10
Dark Ammo 1d6 + Blind
AP Ammo Ignores DR5, 1d6
Fire Ammo 1d4+(1d4 Fire)
Demolition Ammo -3 hit, 2d10
Pulse Ammo -5 hit, 2d10+1d8

Damage:
1d8
Triggered - see table
Payload: The gunblade holds 10 rounds,
and it takes a full melee to reload.
Size: Large
Critical: 19-20/x2 (19-20/x3 Triggered)
Range Increment: ---
Weight: 1.5-3kg (0.8-1m length)
Cost: 7-12k gil
Type: Slashing and Ballistic

Gavinfoxx
2011-01-12, 03:44 PM
Keen, Flaming Burst *Great Scimitar* or *Falchion*, guys!

Rainbownaga
2011-01-12, 07:38 PM
It can shoot, thus it's not the one from FF8 which demonstrates no shooting ability, merely the ability to cause explosions.

Aren't we trying to demonstrate whether or not it can shoot? Begging the question much?


The reason the gun in FF8 can't shoot is because it's an RPG which only assigns a single basic attack to each character. That and the shooting function is rather pathetic compared to the amount of damage it deals when used properly.

Where there any scenes in the game where the character couldn't attack because of range and other characters could? I can't really remember since it's been so long since i've played 8 (my final cd got scratched :smallfrown: )

I realise the animation looks like an explosion, but it could just as easily be a muzzle flash. As I said, it's been a while, but I remember the sound effect resembling a gunshot.

EDIT: Checked the wiki and it agrees with the explosion theory. No references so I have no idea where they got it from, but I'm going to have to conceed this one.

AslanCross
2011-01-12, 08:04 PM
Aren't we trying to demonstrate whether or not it can shoot? Begging the question much?


The reason the gun in FF8 can't shoot is because it's an RPG which only assigns a single basic attack to each character. That and the shooting function is rather pathetic compared to the amount of damage it deals when used properly.

While this is what I used to think, it's pretty clear from the FMV and in-game models of the weapons that it does not have a bore that comes out of the blade of weapon, and hence no way to launch a projectile.


Where there any scenes in the game where the character couldn't attack because of range and other characters could? I can't really remember since it's been so long since i've played 8 (my final cd got scratched :smallfrown: )

In the intro movie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q09quI356sQ), Seifer doesn't shoot Squall with the Gunblade, but with a fire spell. When he does slash Squall in the face, he clearly pulls the trigger (around 2:48; you can hear the gunshot and see the ejected brass), but the injury on Squall's face is a clean slash rather than a bullet hole.

I think there's a pretty good reason that they recruited Irvine, a sniper, to assassinate Sorceress Edea (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5yc1Z0XVFk). It's less clear here whether Squall triggers it when he slashes the trooper (3:35), but to me it sounds like he does. In any case, Squall didn't need to drive all the way up to Edea if he could shoot her with his gun. (Okay, this video doesn't show Irvine's failed attempt to snipe Edea from the carousel, but yeah, Irvine's choking up before he decides to take the shot is part of this sequence.)



I realise the animation looks like an explosion, but it could just as easily be a muzzle flash. As I said, it's been a while, but I remember the sound effect resembling a gunshot.

Both are true, but the weapon's use does involve firing an powder charge. There ought to be some sort of flash and report.

Coidzor
2011-01-12, 08:42 PM
Aren't we trying to demonstrate whether or not it can shoot? Begging the question much? As I understood it, we were trying to determine how to model it and other people brought in entirely different things that existed IRL and the FF13 version which did shoot.

And then some people didn't believe that the examples people brought up of IRL weapons were real. And yes, I did briefly say that the FF13 version's not what the OP wanted to discuss despite sharing the name.

And it's not begging the question to state that there's no reason to add extra abilities beyond what has been demonstrated and is indicated by the weapon's physical composition. It's just the simplest interpretation of the weapon with the least amount of necessary homebrewing that I was advocating.

true_shinken
2011-01-13, 09:32 AM
Oh, I'm late to the party. Someone even linked to wikipedia's pistol swords already.

Alchemy blade was already mentioned, but I think it's a clear-cut ready to use D&D FF8 gunblade. I'd go for that.