Under CRed Templates

[Kalaska'Agathas]

What templates are considered to be "too good" for their CR increase? I'm playing a Bard//Fighter in a Pathfinder game, and I've already got the Shadow Creature template (+1 CR) and I'm wondering what my other options are.

[The Glyphstone]

Half-Minotaur is pretty infamous as being total cheese for any melee character. It's from Dragon Magazine, though, so it's hard to get approved in the first place.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

Half-Minotaur is pretty infamous as being total cheese for any melee character. It's from Dragon Magazine, though, so it's hard to get approved in the first place.

Yeah, I thought about that, and then thought "Wait a minute, this doesn't fit at all." and discarded it. And you're right about it being hard to get approved. I've got a lot of books, but precious few issues of Dragon.

[AslanCross]

Voidmind gives a metric ton of ability score increases, immunities, and special attacks, including a tentacle that is not affected by being a secondary weapon and can grapple at full strength despite attacking with other body parts.
There's also the ability to have your mind flayer master nuke people using the slime in your skull.

CR +1.

(It's completely useless for PCs, though, as your Mind Flayer masters can always Dominate you as a standard action as long as you're within 5 miles of one of them, and they know if you escape.)

[TheCountAlucard]

You might also look at Lolth-touched. That one's ridiculous. :smalltongue:

[Kalaska'Agathas]

Voidmind gives a metric ton of ability score increases, immunities, and special attacks, including a tentacle that is not affected by being a secondary weapon and can grapple at full strength despite attacking with other body parts.
There's also the ability to have your mind flayer master nuke people using the slime in your skull.

CR +1.

(It's completely useless for PCs, though, as your Mind Flayer masters can always Dominate you as a standard action as long as you're within 5 miles of one of them, and they know if you escape.)


You might also look at Lolth-touched. That one's ridiculous. :smalltongue:

Where are these from?

[Yora]

Lolth Touched is MM5 I think. Or 4?

[Lord Loss]

Voidmind is from MM3.

[Keld Denar]

Spellwarped is in MM3. It has a 0 CR adjustment for things up to 4 HD. SR isn't THAT great for a PC, but its downright annoying if you spellwarp a handful of lowish HD creatures and every spell has to check SR. If the SR check fails, give the buggers a bunch of temp HP or temp Con points to make them even tougher to bring down.

Keep in mind, there is a difference between +LA and +CR. +CR tends to be MUCH lower than +LA. Spellwarped, for instance, is a +3 LA template, but is only a +0-2 CR template, depending on the HD of the creature applied to. LA is for PCs, CR is for bad guys.

[Starbuck_II]

Keep in mind, there is a difference between +LA and +CR. +CR tends to be MUCH lower than +LA. Spellwarped, for instance, is a +3 LA template, but is only a +0-2 CR template, depending on the HD of the creature applied to. LA is for PCs, CR is for bad guys.

Except in Pathfinder where you use CR adjustment not LA adjustment. But I guess that only matters if they are using PF.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

Except in Pathfinder where you use CR adjustment not LA adjustment. But I guess that only matters if they are using PF.

Which we are. I'll look at Spellwarped, that's the one that gets bonuses if spells fail to penetrate your SR, right? That might be good.

[Keld Denar]

Yea. The bonuses to stats are enhancement bonuses, which don't stack with themselves or with any existing items, but the HP are untyped, so you can potentially pile those on, and the extra movement speed could potentially be nice if you had monsters with built in Spring Attack or Fly-By Attack.

[Combat Reflexes]

There is also the Saint template (LA +2), which is more or less the definition of cheese. It was in the Complete Champion, IIRC.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

There is also the Saint template (LA +2), which is more or less the definition of cheese. It was in the Complete Champion, IIRC.

BoED actually, and I'm considering it, as I'm already technically exalted (Words of Creation and all that) but I don't know that it really fits with my concept. He could be the Patron Saint of People Who Get In Trouble And Then Out Again By The Skin Of Their Teeth, I guess.

[Combat Reflexes]

BoED actually, and I'm considering it, as I'm already technically exalted (Words of Creation and all that) but I don't know that it really fits with my concept. He could be the Patron Saint of People Who Get In Trouble And Then Out Again By The Skin Of Their Teeth, I guess.

If you can't come up with a creative name, just go with the Patron Saint of Cheese and Munchkinism :smalltongue:

or the saint of shadowy fighter/bard gishes...

[Kalaska'Agathas]

That's the thing though - I'm not after (much) cheese, or rather, not after cheese that benefits only myself. The cheesiest thing about my build is the Song of the Heart + Words of Creation combo, which gives everyone a bonus to hit and damage. I'm using the Fighter side (in place of Warrior, as my DM decided that to gestalt with NPC classes (to balance against high tier classes) was too weak) to become an expert crossbowman and light cavalry fighter, rather than a hood.

Though Saint might be good for our Aasimar Cleric, so I'll run it by him.

[hamishspence]

What templates are considered to be "too good" for their CR increase? I'm playing a Bard//Fighter in a Pathfinder game, and I've already got the Shadow Creature template (+1 CR) and I'm wondering what my other options are.

The Lords of Madness version of Shadow Creature is +2 CR.

The Tome of Magic (and Cormyr Tearing of the Weave) versions of the Dark Creature template (slightly different from Shadow Creature) are +1 CR.

Feral, from Savage Species, is +1 CR and has a reputation as a little cheesy.
Mineral Warrior, from Underdark- is also +1 CR, but is seen as just powerful, rather than outright "way too good".

[Kalaska'Agathas]

The Lords of Madness version of Shadow Creature is +2 CR.

Not in my copy of Lords of Madness. LA +2, CR +1.

[AslanCross]

Where are these from?

Voidmind is from MM3. Lots of tasty stuff from there. Spellwarped is also from MM3.