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Elric VIII
2011-01-11, 10:14 AM
I have a few questions about general gameplay mechanics that have confused me. It is my hope that the vast, collective knowledge of GitP can aid me.

1.) When TWF with a greatsword and armor spikes, which attack bonus is used with the spikes?
Assuming a character with 10 STR and 4 BAB, would his attacks be +4 greatsword/+4 spikes or +4 greatsword +2 spikes?

2.) How does Twin Spell interact with Split Ray, and can they be staked differently?
For example, a Twinned, Split Ray of Exhaustion. Would this spell have a total of 4 rays, (normal + split)x2, or 3 rays, (normal)x2 + split?

3.) I have read that effects that trigger on critical hits happen even on a creature immune to the extra damage. Is this true and where can I find the ruling?

4.) Participants in combat are flat-footed until they have acted. Does this state persist is the PCs see a battle happening, decide to join it, then roll initiatives? In this situation, the PCs are aware of the battle and the NPCs are already in combat, does this change anything?

This may seem like a random assortment of stuff, and it is. These are just some rules questions I have collected that I did not believ meritted their own threads.

Thank you for any help than can be offered.

Yora
2011-01-11, 10:20 AM
1.) If you're even allowed to TWF with armor spikes (as a gm, I wouldn't) and you have the TWF Feat, you would attack a +2 greatsword, +2 spikes.
You get one additional attack with the secondary weapon at full AB, but all attacks get a -2 penalty.

4.) You roll initiative as soon as you're aware of the battle and decide to react to it. If there's still some distance, you probably spend your first turns with moving closer to the main battle.

Keld Denar
2011-01-11, 10:31 AM
1) It is legal, and since armor spikes are light weapons, you'd make attacks at +2 sword / +2 spikes, with your +4 BAB and +10 Str, assuming no other modifiers.

2) You apply them in the order you want. Split Ray would add one ray to make it a volley of 2 rays, then Twin doubles the whole spell for a total of 4 rays.

3) I think its in the FAQ. I checked the rules for burst weapons, its not there.

4) If you are aware of ongoing combat, but the combatants aren't aware of you, you can get a surprise round. After you act in the surprise round, you are no longer flat footed. Otherwise, by the rules, you would be flatfooted. Some people just react that quick.

Crow
2011-01-11, 10:46 AM
It's legal by RAW, but I am having trouble seeing how the Greatsword+Armor Spikes works. Unsportsman-like kick to the groin? It's seems like at this point, the two-weapon fighting feat doesn't quite work...maybe Multi-weapon fighting instead, since you're technically using 3 limbs now?

Or I guess you could throw an elbow in there or something. It just seems a little wonky.

Elric VIII
2011-01-11, 10:51 AM
It's legal by RAW, but I am having trouble seeing how the Greatsword+Armor Spikes works. Unsportsman-like kick to the groin? It's seems like at this point, the two-weapon fighting feat doesn't quite work...maybe Multi-weapon fighting instead, since you're technically using 3 limbs now?

Or I guess you could throw an elbow in there or something. It just seems a little wonky.

I assume it's like fighting with a bo/quarterstaff. You use the momentum of the swing to add power to a shoulder/elbow strike.

Also, I made some math mistakes in the OP, sorry for the confusion.

Thank you for the responses, I'm going to check out the FAQ for burst weapons, other than that I believe all of my questions have been answered.

Elric VIII
2011-01-11, 11:18 AM
3) I think its in the FAQ. I checked the rules for burst weapons, its not there.

I checked DMG errata, but there was nothing on the subject. To what FAQ were you referring?

Keld Denar
2011-01-11, 11:30 AM
This one. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a) Download it and take a gander.

Elric VIII
2011-01-11, 11:32 AM
This one. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a) Download it and take a gander.

Thank you. Checking it out now.

Zherog
2011-01-11, 11:39 AM
Here's the quote. It's on pages 54-55.


The flaming burst, icy burst, and shocking burst weapon powers require a critical hit to trigger the burst. What happens when you attack a foe that isn’t subject to critical hits? What happens if your critical hit is negated by fortification?

In either case, the burst effect doesn’t occur.

If an effect is negated, it is invalidated, prevented, or ended with respect to a designated area or target. That’s true whether the negation is automatic (such as from immunity) or contingent upon a roll or check (fortification).

If another effect is contingent on the success of a root effect (like, say, any of the burst weapons in the DMG, which are triggered on a successful critical hit), and the root effect is negated, the contingent effect is also negated. In the case of these burst weapons, if the critical hit is negated so is the burst weapon’s critical-dependant effect, since it is triggered on a “successful critical hit” (DMG 224 Flaming Burst entry and DMG 225 Icy Burst and Shocking Burst entries).

There are exceptions to this rule, but they are called out specifically in the effect’s description. For example, some weapon properties in the MIC state “this effect activates even if the target is not normally vulnerable [or subject to] to extra damage from critical hits.” In these cases you would roll to confirm a critical hit, and with a successful critical confirmation you would apply the damage or effect for the special effect, though you would not add the extra weapon damage for the critical hit.

Here’s an example of how this works: If a fighter with an 18 Strength with a +1 desiccating burst greatsword (MIC 32) rolled a natural 19 on an attack against a water elemental (and hit the elemental), you would roll to confirm the critical, even though water elementals are immune to critical hits. On a confirmed critical, the weapon does 2d6+7 plus 3d8 points of damage from the desiccating property to the water elemental.

Note: This FAQ entry is a correction of an older FAQ entry that allowed all of these types of weapons to burst even if the target was immune to critical hits or the critical hit was negated in some other way.

Note that this is counter to what was already said, and also note the last paragraph that probably explains why.