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WarKitty
2011-01-12, 01:28 PM
I'm looking for a race to use as a variant lycanthrope. Well, technically, therianthrope. I've looked at shifters, but I don't really like the limits on the number of rounds - I'd rather have a race that gets fewer bonuses but has them all the time. So here's what I'm looking for:

- Medium size. This really is a requirement, I can't have small.
- Some form of claw attack. Doesn't have to do much damage. Something that can be reflavored as a claw is also fine.
- Does not take a penalty to either of strength or con

Other stuff that would be nice:
- I'm not opposed to LA or RHD, but I had better be getting something worthwhile out of them to give up a class level. No, just having a 1d4 natural attack does not count.
- I'd prefer to avoid dragon magazine. I want to play this character but don't have a current DM for it, so it needs to be as DM-friendly as I can.
- would be nice to retain the humanoid subtype. I'm melee, I will need enlarge person eventually or some equivalent.

Edit: Decent feats/class dips are also allowed, so long as I can take them at or before level 3 using pathfinder feat progression.

Greenish
2011-01-12, 01:41 PM
Medium humanoids aren't known for their claw attacks, but templates help here.

Feral might be best fit, but Dragonic isn't quite as strong and comes with claw attacks too.

[Edit]: Feral changes the type to monstrous humanoid though.

crazedloon
2011-01-12, 01:45 PM
Skarn will be one of your better options. They are from MoI and have a natural "spine" attack which deals 1d6 can be used even on the hand which wields a weapon and have a bonus to strength (negative is to dex). Add a little totamist from the same book for more natrual attack options to bring out the real beast in your character :smallwink:

Starbuck_II
2011-01-12, 01:49 PM
Yes, Skarn work.
Reflavoring spine as claw works.

WarKitty
2011-01-12, 01:59 PM
Skarn's not bad, although I'd be a bit disappointed at not being able to use both claws at once. I'm going druid (pf lion shaman) to warshaper with a few other goodies in there. Draconic looks like it might have enough other goodies to justify the +1 LA for a melee character.

crazedloon
2011-01-12, 02:11 PM
.... wait why do you need a race with natural weapons if you are going that combination :smallconfused:

Each of those classes provide you with means to gain natural weapons

WarKitty
2011-01-12, 02:24 PM
.... wait why do you need a race with natural weapons if you are going that combination :smallconfused:

Each of those classes provide you with means to gain natural weapons

RP stuff, mainly - I need the character to start off with natural attacks, not gain them halfway through the game. The original character had the equivalent of a lycanthrope's hybrid and animal forms but no human form.

Person_Man
2011-01-12, 02:34 PM
Variant Kobolds (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) have 2 claws and a bite (and can get a tail attack with 1 feat), plus slieight build and +1 NA. Down side is that there stats suck and don't meet your needs.

Also, you can get 2 claws from 1 feat (Shape Soulmeld: Draconic Claw) if you're dragonblooded, or 2 feats if you're not. You can also get claws from 1 level of Master of Masks, which is also handy for Exotic Weapon proficiency in everything. Or 4 claws from 2 levels of Totemist with Girallon Arms bound to your Totem chakra.

I think there's a dragonblooded human variant somewhere. Spend the bonus feat on the Draconic Claw soulmeld, and you're set.

Urpriest
2011-01-12, 02:57 PM
Don't Hengeyokoi get a lot of this?

Edit: Doesn't look like they get natural attacks in hybrid form unfortunately.

Scarlet-Devil
2011-01-12, 03:02 PM
Don't Hengeyokoi get a lot of this?

Edit: Doesn't look like they get natural attacks in hybrid form unfortunately.

Meh, Hengeyokai are pretty awful unfortunately (doesn't seem like they deserve that +1 LA).

Sure you don't want to just play a psychic warrior?

WarKitty
2011-01-12, 03:06 PM
Meh, Hengeyokai are pretty awful unfortunately (doesn't seem like they deserve that +1 LA).

Sure you don't want to just play a psychic warrior?

Unfortunately I really do need to have the full shapeshifting abilities available as per druid. Shapeshift druid would work if I could find a way to make it work with MoMF so I could get to large size eventually. Ok looks like shapeshift druid is probably what I want. Might still by eyeing that draconic template, +2 each to str and con isn't bad for a melee.

Keld Denar
2011-01-12, 03:10 PM
Poisondusk Lizardfolk? I don't remember if they are medium or small, but they are only +1 LA and have claw/claw/bite, decent stat adjustments, and some NA.

Urpriest
2011-01-12, 03:24 PM
Meh, Hengeyokai are pretty awful unfortunately (doesn't seem like they deserve that +1 LA).

Sure you don't want to just play a psychic warrior?

They only have the +1 LA because of the shapechanger type. In the 3.5 update of OA they became humanoid (shapechanger) and their LA became +0.

Grelna the Blue
2011-01-12, 04:02 PM
With minimal refluffing, straight vanilla Humans make excellent therianthropes if you give them at least one level of Druid, with the wildshape ACF on p.39 of PHII. Spells and Wisdom are irrelevant if all you want is the animal form. At 1st level, you get a "predator form" of your choice with a primary bite attack (1d6), a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength, and your natural armor bonus improves by 4. Your base land speed becomes 50 feet. You get NO other animal abilitiese, but you can shift as often as you want and with no limit on duration. The ability improves even more at higher Druid levels, but one level would be sufficient and as all adult humans have at least one level of something, you could easily posit a tribe of savage catpeople, or wolfmen, or hyaena warriors who all have at least one level of Druid. Of course, to go forward in level from there would be slightly more expensive, which I guess means that you could count this as a LA 1 option. A pretty nice one, though, I think.

Malachei
2011-01-12, 04:32 PM
Catfolk (RoTW) have the flavor, but they don't have the claw attack. At LA+1, however, they come with a +4 Dex and +2 Cha, as well as favored class: ranger. Perhaps a template, feat or class-dip (such as suggested above) will be able to equip the catfolk with a claw attack.

WarKitty
2011-01-12, 04:41 PM
With minimal refluffing, straight vanilla Humans make excellent therianthropes if you give them at least one level of Druid, with the wildshape ACF on p.39 of PHII. Spells and Wisdom are irrelevant if all you want is the animal form. At 1st level, you get a "predator form" of your choice with a primary bite attack (1d6), a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength, and your natural armor bonus improves by 4. Your base land speed becomes 50 feet. You get NO other animal abilitiese, but you can shift as often as you want and with no limit on duration. The ability improves even more at higher Druid levels, but one level would be sufficient and as all adult humans have at least one level of something, you could easily posit a tribe of savage catpeople, or wolfmen, or hyaena warriors who all have at least one level of Druid. Of course, to go forward in level from there would be slightly more expensive, which I guess means that you could count this as a LA 1 option. A pretty nice one, though, I think.

That's what I'm looking at, thanks.


Catfolk (RoTW) have the flavor, but they don't have the claw attack. At LA+1, however, they come with a +4 Dex and +2 Cha, as well as favored class: ranger. Perhaps a template, feat or class-dip (such as suggested above) will be able to equip the catfolk with a claw attack.

Unfortunately all the catfolk have going for them is the flavor. I'm really going for a melee brute build.

Greenish
2011-01-12, 04:43 PM
Poisondusk Lizardfolk? I don't remember if they are medium or small, but they are only +1 LA and have claw/claw/bite, decent stat adjustments, and some NA.Small, but 30' move and no strength penalty.

hamishspence
2011-01-12, 04:44 PM
Poisondusk Lizardfolk? I don't remember if they are medium or small, but they are only +1 LA and have claw/claw/bite, decent stat adjustments, and some NA.

They're Small.

EDIT: Swordsaged.

What about Shifters (MMIII?) They don't have to be Eberron only, after all.

Choco
2011-01-12, 04:47 PM
Feral Changeling maybe?

B1okHead
2011-01-12, 05:06 PM
How about anthropomorphic animals from savage species? They are basically lycanthroaps in hybrid form all the time.

WarKitty
2011-01-12, 05:08 PM
How about anthropomorphic animals from savage species? They are basically lycanthroaps in hybrid form all the time.

Looked at it, unfortunately if I'm going to eat a RHD it's easier to grab a template.

Tvtyrant
2011-01-12, 05:12 PM
Binder 1 and then use the claw form all day?

Malachei
2011-01-12, 05:17 PM
Unfortunately all the catfolk have going for them is the flavor. I'm really going for a melee brute build.

Actually, I find a +4 to Dex pretty solid (especially, if LA-buy-off is allowed). One level of druid, and the ranger TWF, and weapon-finesse your claw attack.

Unless your focus is optimization, of course.

WarKitty
2011-01-12, 05:20 PM
Actually, I find a +4 to Dex pretty solid (especially, if LA-buy-off is allowed). One level of druid, and the ranger TWF, and weapon-finesse your claw attack.

Unless your focus is optimization, of course.

Not total optimization, but it needs to be able to keep up with a relatively optimized fighter. Plus I just don't see her as a finesse type character.

Urpriest
2011-01-12, 06:34 PM
Looked at it, unfortunately if I'm going to eat a RHD it's easier to grab a template.

That's debatable for some of them. There are a few 1HD anthro animals that would presumably lose that HD, and at least one must have a claw-claw-bite routine.

Also, any problem just refluffing unarmed strike to a claw, since you've said your open to refluffing? Or do you need it to be a natural weapon?

true_shinken
2011-01-12, 06:40 PM
I use updated hengeyokai (Oriental Adventures+Dragon 318) for that same role in my game, and I also allow them to qualify for shifter feats.
I know hengeyokai were already mentioned, just giving them another vote.

For melee brutes, hengeyokai can be pretty damn powerful, due to their fast access to Warshaper.

Siosilvar
2011-01-12, 10:55 PM
One-level dip in Totemist and you can bind Claws of the Wyrm from Dragon Magic, one of the few soulmelds that gives claw attacks without being bound to Totem. Better yet, you can get one other miscellaneous benefit and change it daily.

Other things, other things, other things... nothing I can think of that hasn't already been mentioned.

EnnPeeCee
2011-01-13, 01:20 AM
How about Nezumi from OA? Medium size, claws and bite, con bonus, cha penalty.

Edit: Just saw the qualifier that says they just get damage on unarmed strikes because of their claws, so not an actual claw attack.

AugustNights
2011-01-13, 04:41 AM
If you aren't opposed to something that's like LA lite, you might check out the Therianthropes here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182724) [/shameless self-plug]

Darrin
2011-01-13, 07:40 AM
- Medium size. This really is a requirement, I can't have small.
- Some form of claw attack. Doesn't have to do much damage. Something that can be reflavored as a claw is also fine.
- Does not take a penalty to either of strength or con


Kenku (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040912b&page=4) (MMIII) might work. Medium size, two claw attacks, but Str -2/Dex +2. You can shift that Str penalty to Int -2/Cha -2 with the Wild racial template (Dragon #306).

Otherwise, Silverbrow Human or Frostblood Orc with the Draconic Claws soulmeld might be best.

Tokuhara
2011-01-13, 11:42 AM
I suggest a Feral Incarnate Maug, and here's why:

#1. you start at Large, so enjoy stomping some idiots' heads
#2. Low LA/RHD. You'd only have 2RHD and 2LA, meaning you aren't just throwing away class levels
#3. +10 Strength, +4 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom. Seriously???
#4. You'd get all of the cheated goodness of Feral with 2 RHD, a good type, and maybe even be urged to switch with a Dire Wereboar/Dire Werebear to FURTHER increase strength.
#5. You'd just plain look cool! Think about a 9' tall 500lb wereboar attacking you... Scary, eh?

true_shinken
2011-01-13, 01:04 PM
I suggest a Feral Incarnate Maug, and here's why:

#1. you start at Large, so enjoy stomping some idiots' heads
He already stated he wants medium size.

WarKitty
2011-01-13, 01:24 PM
He already stated he wants medium size.

Actually, I wouldn't object to large size, despite what I said. Mainly I needed to not be starting at small.

Melayl
2011-01-13, 02:09 PM
If you're just looking for a claw attack, my Beast Warrior class starts out with a natural attack...[/shamlessplug]