PDA

View Full Version : [3.5]Alternative Uses for Turn Undead



Callista
2011-01-12, 03:24 PM
'Kay, so I'm researching some of the things I can do with Turn Undead attempts besides, well, actually turning undead. If you don't generally see a lot of undead, then it makes sense to find a different use for them.

But as I've been browsing through my books, I realized that there are just so many options it's overwhelming.

What do you trade your Turn Undead for? I'm guessing most of these options are going to be feats, but there could be items that could be used to channel that positive energy toward something that could help the party.

What alternative uses for Turn Undead are most useful?

Keld Denar
2011-01-12, 03:28 PM
NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER trade Turn Undead. Its an awesome mechanic for powering tons of cool stuff.

CWarrior, CDivine, and a couple other books have a fair number of [Divine] feats, feats that use TU attempts to do various things. Some of them are REALLY GOOD, like Divine Metamagic or Divine Might, and some of them are kinda meh, like Divine Vigor or Divine Shield, and some are downright terrible like the one that aligns everyone else's weapons but yours, forgot the name, or Divine Resistance. The ones that take an action to activate but only last 1 round are generally considered miserable.

CChampion also introduces Devotion feats, all of which other than Knowledge Devotion, grant additional uses by spending TU attempts.

Some classes also use TU attempts to do cool things. Ruby Knight Windicator and Ordained Champion are two of the best, and best known, but I'm sure there are a few others.

monkeysammich
2011-01-12, 03:29 PM
On my Ordained Champion... I use Turn Attempts to Smite (Cha to hit, Turn Level to Damage) and Sacred Shield (Cha to Shield AC as a Sacred Bonus)... Probably will pick up Divine Spell Power for a Caster Level Increase

The #1 thing turn attempts are used for in the realm of most bang for your buck, though, is Divine Metamagic.

Callista
2011-01-12, 03:36 PM
NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER trade Turn Undead. Its an awesome mechanic for powering tons of cool stuff.
Nonono. I meant trading uses of Turn Undead. I don't think I'm silly enough to actually give up that class feature. It's very cool indeed.

Keld Denar
2011-01-12, 03:40 PM
Yea, there's not much you can really trade if out for anyway. Clerics only have the Smite Giant's ACF in Races of Stone, which is TERRIBLERAWR, and Paladins have a couple of options in Champions of Valor, most of which are pretty bad, though.

Just makin sure! :P

EDIT: I just remembered another use. Illumians (RoDest) with the NaenHoon sigil combo can use something akin to Divine Metamagic, and it doesn't even have the whole "Divine Only" clause, which means that any Illumian Wizard who dips into Sacred Exorcist can DMM Persist up to 2 spells per day. Also, another reason why Paladin4/Duskblade2 is my favorite entry into Suel Arcanamach. Persistant Wraithstrike is FUN!

Godskook
2011-01-12, 04:04 PM
1.Unless you're wanting to be a necromancer, I would change out Turn Undead. For Rebuke Dragon. Not only is fully compatible in regards to feats(says so explicitly), but I suspect that commanding a dragon is far more potent for the cleric not built for necromancy.

2.Dragonfire Channeling converts Turn attempts for undead(dragons too) and elementals into a breath weapon. If you've got elemental domains, this is probably the only RAW+RAI method of converting them. Requires you to be dragonblooded. Default is half-fire, half-sacred, but can be adjusted with draconic heritage.

3.In complete divine, there's a variant rule for how turning works that allows you to deal damage instead of the fear/destruction results, making it *FAR* more effective against high effective HD undead, like the BBEG.

Callista
2011-01-13, 01:40 AM
Are there options that affect more than just your character?--like, stuff that'll help the rest of the party somehow?

Benly
2011-01-13, 01:55 AM
1.Unless you're wanting to be a necromancer, I would change out Turn Undead. For Rebuke Dragon. Not only is fully compatible in regards to feats(says so explicitly), but I suspect that commanding a dragon is far more potent for the cleric not built for necromancy.


You can only command a dragon with HD up to half your turning level, which isn't going to be all that impressive even if you pile on the turning level bonuses. With undead, you can at least use tricks involving negative turn resistance to snag stronger targets, which won't work with dragons.

On the other hand, for good-aligned (or healing-spont neutral) clerics any rebuking is probably better than straight turning, and the dragons will probably smell better than undead.

As far as alternate uses for turn attempts, my favorite is Water Devotion. Yeah, it's no Divine Metamagic, but I like being able to just plop out a water elemental several times a day whenever I feel like it, and it'll frequently compare favorably to the elementals you could get with Summon Monster at equal level.



Are there options that affect more than just your character?--like, stuff that'll help the rest of the party somehow?

Just looking at Complete Divine, there's Sacred Boost (maximizes cure spells), Sacred Healing (fast healing for your allies for Cha + 1 rounds), and Glorious Weapons which lets your allies' weapons pierce aligned DR. From Complete Champion, Good/Evil Devotion and Protection Devotion are both area buffs.

Godskook
2011-01-13, 05:08 AM
You can only command a dragon with HD up to half your turning level, which isn't going to be all that impressive even if you pile on the turning level bonuses. With undead, you can at least use tricks involving negative turn resistance to snag stronger targets, which won't work with dragons.

Wait, where are you getting the 'half' part from?

Thurbane
2011-01-13, 05:45 AM
A few items from the MIC can be powered by Turn Attempts:

Divine Wrath weapon enhancement
Ring of Brief Blessing
Radiant Sphere

Master_Rahl22
2011-01-13, 09:53 AM
Divine Metamagic is great and gets a bad reputation from people who try to carry around 400 Nightsticks. When used responsibly, and with at max 1 Nightstick, you can get free Extend/Persist on extremely useful spells and then have more spell slots for utility/combat/buffing/whatever.

I'll second that the Devotion feats are awesome, well several of them are anyway. Law, Travel, Animal, and Knowledge Devotion are all great feats, and all but the Knowledge one give you extra uses for spending TU attempts.

Benly
2011-01-13, 10:53 AM
Wait, where are you getting the 'half' part from?

From the way turning/rebuking works, unless Rebuke Dragons changes that drastically. You can rebuke targets up to your level, but commanding only happens to targets with HD of half your level or less.


If you have twice as many levels (or more) as the undead have Hit Dice, you destroy any that you would normally turn.

Undead that would be turned are rebuked instead, and those that would be destroyed are commanded.

Waker
2011-01-13, 08:35 PM
There is Divine Counterspell in Complete Mage. You lose the ability to turn/rebuke undead but gain the ability to burn turning attempts to act as Dispel Magic for counterspelling. You add your cleric levels as opposed to caster levels, you can do that 1+ Cha mod (as opposed to 3 + cha.)