PDA

View Full Version : only hiding in plain sight question VS magic



nealpb
2011-01-12, 04:54 PM
i have one for you about hiding in plain sight VS magic question

ok lest say a elf Shadowdancer with magic weapons, armor and other magic items and using hiding in plain sight in a 100ft by 100ft dark room (with nothing in the room) so hiding in plain sight will work at the other end there a door with 2 torchs flanking the door and he can see a mage about 10ft form the door looking not at him but that way then he cast arcane sight the eif will see his go blue (yes if the eif has spellcarft he can roll) and 3 rounds later.

my question is can the mage see the Shadowdancer if he in range using arcane sight?

aquaticrna
2011-01-12, 06:23 PM
my understanding of it is that yes, the magic items will light up like torches, but mechanically that would only leave the elf's square exposed, rather than allowing the mage to pinpoint him exactly and ignore all miss-chances

AslanCross
2011-01-12, 06:33 PM
Magic (even True Seeing) cannot defeat the Hide skill, as far as I can tell, but the magic items will definitely light up. As has been mentioned, this only reveals the shadowdancer's square, but miss chances still apply.

Curmudgeon
2011-01-12, 06:49 PM
No, the mage still cannot see the Shadowdancer without a superior Spot roll. The mage's Arcane Sight will detect magical auras in the Shadowdancer's square, but not their sources. This mage would similarly detect magical auras if someone left invisible Arcane Marks in that square or there were magic items covered by debris, so the presence of auras needn't indicate the presence of any creatures.

holywhippet
2011-01-12, 06:59 PM
No, the mage still cannot see the Shadowdancer without a superior Spot roll. The mage's Arcane Sight will detect magical auras in the Shadowdancer's square, but not their sources. This mage would similarly detect magical auras if someone left invisible Arcane Marks in that square or there were magic items covered by debris, so the presence of auras needn't indicate the presence of any creatures.

True, but if you saw multiple enchanments of different schools - or even several non-universal enchantments you'd know there might be something there. A spot check would tell you if there was debris the items might be underneath.

This is much the same as invisibility vs. the detect magic spell. Detect magic can tell you what square the invisible creature is in, but can't tell you it's exact location.

nealpb
2011-01-13, 02:19 PM
my understanding of it is that yes, the magic items will light up like torches, but mechanically that would only leave the elf's square exposed, rather than allowing the mage to pinpoint him exactly and ignore all miss-chances

that what i was thinking but yes i can see the elf but i should see the magic now saying that i did say
(with nothing in the room) so i should be able to see the magic. if there something for him to hide then yes i do have to make a spot roll


Magic (even True Seeing) cannot defeat the Hide skill, as far as I can tell, but the magic items will definitely light up. As has been mentioned, this only reveals the shadowdancer's square, but miss chances still apply.

not if you AOE spell with no save :smallcool:(bing evil):smallbiggrin:

Last Laugh
2011-01-13, 03:16 PM
not if you AOE spell with no save :smallcool:(bing evil):smallbiggrin:
What spell are you thinking of? Black Tentacles? Are there Damaging AoE spells w/o saves/SR?

Gamer Girl
2011-01-13, 03:29 PM
I agree the shadowdancers magic would be seen.


but I think there should be a fix.....


Just think...after the first(or least say 100th) shadowdancer had this problem(I was all hidden in the shadows, but the mage knew something was up as he detected my magic items and he cast a fireball at the area) you'd think the shadowdancers would fix it.

Maybe a feat? : Shadow cloak-a shadowdancer is covered by a think cloak of shadows that blocks all the auras of any magic on their person. Or maybe something like the shadowdancer detects as 'absence' of magic if they make a hide check vs the spellcraft of the viewing wizard?

ericgrau
2011-01-13, 03:37 PM
Ya detect magic gives location of auras on the 3rd round, which he gets instantly via arcane sight. So he notes the location of multiple magic auras exactly where you are, but does not necessarily know that a person is the source and he still has a 50% chance of missing you with ray spells since he can't actually see you. Many targeted spells also wouldn't work. Though he knows what square the auras are in, and so many auras on a moving target is a pretty good indication that there's a creature there. If you stand still he might also think you're a trap or other heavily warded object.

Except:
1. Arcane sight lasts a minute per level. Why would he cast it in the first place if he hasn't already seen you, which he can't do.
2. You can put oil of (Nystul's) Magic Aura (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicAura.htm) on all your gear if you want to hide yourself from arcane sight. 50 gp per item per day. But your Su ability still shows up.

Curmudgeon
2011-01-13, 03:37 PM
What spell are you thinking of? Black Tentacles? Are there Damaging AoE spells w/o saves/SR?
Of course there are. Some examples:

Acid Rain (Heroes of Battle)
Anarchic Storm (Spell Compendium)
Axiomatic Storm (Spell Compendium)
Holy Storm (Spell Compendium)
Unholy Storm (Spell Compendium)

SoC175
2011-01-13, 03:45 PM
Note that the shadowdancer's HiPS is also magical, it's an [SU] ability.

ericgrau
2011-01-13, 03:53 PM
EDIT: Nevermind, FAQ says Su does show up on a detect magic, though campaign settings and other opinions on this may differ. Even among Wizard's staff. Keith Baker thinks it should - as his opinion not necessarily canon - only while the ability is being used.

Glimbur
2011-01-13, 04:12 PM
What spell are you thinking of? Black Tentacles? Are there Damaging AoE spells w/o saves/SR?

A solid choice is Glitterdust (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/glitterdust.htm). It's possible to be so good at Hiding that even with the -40 you can still conceal yourself, but it is nontrivial.

Curmudgeon
2011-01-13, 04:22 PM
Note that the shadowdancer's HiPS is also magical, it's an [SU] ability.
While that would matter in an Antimagic Field, against Arcane Sight it makes no matter. Hide in Plain Sight is only used on the Shadowdancer's turn. On opponents' turns there's only the mundane Hide skill that HiPS allowed; the magic is already over.

holywhippet
2011-01-13, 07:49 PM
Hmm, would someone be able to "see" an anti-magic field using detect magic or arcane sight? Technically it is a spell and the wording doesn't exactly say they would be stopped as the detection spells aren't trying to operate "within" the field per se.

Dr.Epic
2011-01-13, 07:52 PM
I would imagine so.

HerrTenko
2011-01-13, 08:06 PM
Given the fact that magic is naturally present everywhere to some degree, an Anti-Magic area would certainly be "seen" with Arcane Sight or Detect Magic... Except it wouldn't be seen, really. I think it'd be more like it would be Unseen, just like zombies are Undead. Maybe like a great "hole in the fabric of magic" or a feeling of cold emptiness.

Greenish
2011-01-13, 08:23 PM
Are there Damaging AoE spells w/o saves/SR?The classic Hail of Stones metamagic'ed through nine hells and back. No save, no SR, no attack roll, instantaneous conjuration.

holywhippet
2011-01-13, 08:56 PM
Given the fact that magic is naturally present everywhere to some degree, an Anti-Magic area would certainly be "seen" with Arcane Sight or Detect Magic... Except it wouldn't be seen, really. I think it'd be more like it would be Unseen, just like zombies are Undead. Maybe like a great "hole in the fabric of magic" or a feeling of cold emptiness.

It sort of depends on how you think AMF actually works. I tend to think of it being like a jamming field which prevents other spells from being able to work. I don't think it just completely cancels out all magic in the area since a) it would cancel itself out and b) disjunction wouldn't be able to crack it.

Ytaker
2011-01-13, 09:42 PM
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12551



I've had a few discussions with Ed regarding anti-magic (stemming mainly from some of his prose in "Elminster in Myth Drannor") and he made the cogent point to me that 'anti-magic' is still ... well ... magic. Otherwise it would collapse itself immediately upon being cast or brought into being. An anti-magic shell is a spell that prevents the operation of other magic, it is not a 'dead magic' zone or somesuch.

As it is magic, then other magic can be created and specifically tailored to combat it or ignore its effects. I think that this is why the spell is 6th level. Conceivably you can have a higher level spell that dismisses and banishes an 'anti-magic shell' whilst the caster is still in it. In other words, there are spells that can be cast while inside an 'anti-magic shell' - see the aforementioned novel and note its reference to a 'spell shear' as cast by the fabled Mythanthar.

According to the creator of all, antimagic field is magic.

nealpb
2011-01-13, 09:49 PM
What spell are you thinking of? Black Tentacles? Are there Damaging AoE spells w/o saves/SR?


A solid choice is Glitterdust (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/glitterdust.htm). It's possible to be so good at Hiding that even with the -40 you can still conceal yourself, but it is nontrivial.


The classic Hail of Stones metamagic'ed through nine hells and back. No save, no SR, no attack roll, instantaneous conjuration.

hit it on the head. hehehehehe :smallbiggrin: Maximize Ice Storm or even Extend with Daylight hide on elf :smallbiggrin: