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Ducklord
2011-01-13, 03:36 AM
Is there any way a bard can take 10 on his UMD checks? A feat or somesuch? Or at least get his UMD skill high enough to have a reliable chance of activating a wand?

woodenbandman
2011-01-13, 03:50 AM
Charisma
Skill Focus
you can get 2 synergy bonuses related to scrolls
Magical Aptitude

At level 1 you can easily manage a +10 on a human bard, 4 ranks, 2 charisma, 5 feats.

Ducklord
2011-01-13, 04:39 AM
Charisma
Skill Focus
you can get 2 synergy bonuses related to scrolls
Magical Aptitude

At level 1 you can easily manage a +10 on a human bard, 4 ranks, 2 charisma, 5 feats.

Yeah, but that's two feats basically wasted. Aren't there any better ways?

Coidzor
2011-01-13, 04:40 AM
By what level?

Reynard
2011-01-13, 04:45 AM
Custom skill increasing item?

+1 would be 100gp
+2 would be 400gp
+3 would be 900gp*
+4 would be 1600gp

etc etc.

*Yes. Skill Focus is only worth 900gp.

gorfnab
2011-01-13, 05:13 AM
Take 10 - 1 level of Exemplar (CAdv)
+2 Circumstance bonus - Masterwork Tool of UMD (PHB)
+3 Competence bonus - Circlet of Persuasion (DMG)

Ducklord
2011-01-13, 05:29 AM
By what level?

Let's say by level 5.

Hmm, custom items smell of cheese. The circlet of presuasion could be useful on the other hand, because it fits thematically and gives a nice bonus to almost all the important bard skills. The only downside is it's a bit expensive.

Darrin
2011-01-13, 07:27 AM
Is there any way a bard can take 10 on his UMD checks? A feat or somesuch? Or at least get his UMD skill high enough to have a reliable chance of activating a wand?

Yes. There's a feat in City of Stormreach called "Hardened Criminal". Requires Iron Will as a prerequisite (which you can get via Otyugh Hole if need be). It makes you immune to Intimidate (yawn), but it also allows you to pick one of your skills, and you can then take 10 on that skill even in stressful situations such as combat.

There's also guidance of the avatar (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a), a 2nd level Cleric spell that grants a +20 competence bonus on your next skill check. Unlike divine insight, it's potion-able, too (300 GP).

Reynard
2011-01-13, 08:04 AM
Hmm, custom items smell of cheese.
It's cheese to ask your DM if you can have an item that follows the rules in the DMG for creating them?

Darrin
2011-01-13, 09:21 AM
It's cheese to ask your DM if you can have an item that follows the rules in the DMG for creating them?

The Sword of Continuous Use-Activated True Strike and Rock of Infinite Cure Minor Wounds quietly crying in the "permaban" corner might have something to say about that...

Ducklord
2011-01-13, 09:27 AM
It's cheese to ask your DM if you can have an item that follows the rules in the DMG for creating them?

Not necessarily, but I usually try to avoid thing thst could be interpreted as broken. Also the 900gp=feat eqation sounds kinda broken.

the clumsy bard
2011-01-13, 09:29 AM
Item Familiar from the Unearthed Arcana book.

Also found on the SRD here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm)

Coidzor
2011-01-13, 09:58 AM
The Sword of Continuous Use-Activated True Strike and Rock of Infinite Cure Minor Wounds quietly crying in the "permaban" corner might have something to say about that...

1. entirely different levels. 2. it's not cheese to ask because asking is something that happens in meatspace unless it's PBP or sommat in which case it happens inside the context of a conversation.

Reynard
2011-01-13, 10:00 AM
Not necessarily, but I usually try to avoid thing thst could be interpreted as broken. Also the 900gp=feat eqation sounds kinda broken.

Quick Draw costs 600 300gp. And you don't even have to make anything up.

Some feats are just crap, basically.

Coidzor
2011-01-13, 10:17 AM
Not all feats are created equal, and the pricing on them varies as well. Riding Boots are either 2, 3, or 5K and grants a mounted combat feat in addition to other things, and the Battle Bridle(I believe) does the same for a lesser cost and a different feat. Both of these items are from the Magic Item Compendium.... if I remembered their names correctly.

It's actually possible to buy items that grant the Spirited Charge feat tree, IIRC.

Telonius
2011-01-13, 10:39 AM
Quick Draw costs 600 300gp. And you don't even have to make anything up.

Some feats are just crap, basically.

Agreed. If you want an even more wretched example, a Masterwork Tool is only 50gp, grants +2 to the skill in question, isn't dispell-able like the wondrous item, and is a Circumstance bonus so it stacks with practically everything that's not itself. It's in the PHB.

EDIT: So, level 5 Bard. I think we can safely assume at least 16 charisma.

8 ranks, +3 cha, +2 masterwork tool. You're already at +13. Circlet of Persuasion is only 4500, so that's another +3 for 16 total. (More than +15 means that you never suffer mishaps for failing an Activate Blindly). On a 4 or better (i.e. 85% chance of success), you make the check for a wand. If you have 5 ranks in spellcraft and decipher script, that's total +20 to scrolls; you auto-succeed on level 0 and 1 scrolls, and have a pretty good chance of getting low to mid level scrolls as well.

Chilingsworth
2011-01-13, 11:01 AM
afaik, the only tools available are healer's kits, thief's tools, and artisans tools (for craft checks.) There are no tools for UMD in the PHB.

Greenish
2011-01-13, 11:07 AM
It's actually possible to buy items that grant the Spirited Charge feat tree, IIRC.Riding Boots, Battle Bridle and Lance of Faerūn from the Magic of Faerūn and you have the whole line.

Shape Soulmeld: Mage's Spectacles (MoI) gives you 4+(2*e) bonus to UMD and a couple of other skills.

Telonius
2011-01-13, 11:12 AM
afaik, the only tools available are healer's kits, thief's tools, and artisans tools (for craft checks.) There are no tools for UMD in the PHB.

p. 129 (table), p.130-131 (description). It calls out the other kits as examples, and says that this entry covers "just about anything else."

monkeysammich
2011-01-13, 11:12 AM
Spellsight Spectacles in the MiC also add something like +5 to UMD when using scrolls.

Killer Angel
2011-01-13, 11:46 AM
p. 129 (table), p.130-131 (description). It calls out the other kits as examples, and says that this entry covers "just about anything else."

Indeed, but many DMs easily forget this, or:
1 - they know it, but it isn't explicitly cited as example in the DMG, and "just about", doesn't mean "ALL", but more "almost all".
2 - they don't care, and they simpy ban a masterwork item that gives bonuses to one of the most broken skills ever, and their answer is: "You want some bonus? pick Circlet of persuasion".
So, everytime we suggest a masterwork tool for UMD, IMO we shouldn't take it for granted.

dextercorvia
2011-01-13, 02:27 PM
Shape Soulmeld:Mage's Spectacles gives +4 to UMD, Spellcraft and Decipher Script, +2/ess

It's better than Skill Focus.

Note that none of the abilities that allow you to take 10 even in a stressful situation apply to UMD, which still specifically disallows the the taking of 10. The Warlock/DFA ability works, but requires 4 levels.

gbprime
2011-01-13, 02:39 PM
It's definately easier to get a large bonus than it is to get a take-10. (Which usually requires a feat chain or a prestige class)

Options at 5th level...

8 ranks and +3 CHA bonus are guaranteed

+3 circlet of persuasion (4500 gpv)
+3 skill boost item (call it a Charm of the Talismonger or something) (900 gpv)
+3 Skill Focus (costs 1 feat)

Just using those first two would net you a +17, and considering it's a 20 for activating a wand, you're done with a 90% chance. (100% at 7th level with 2 more skill ranks) I'd only use the feat for Skill Focus if you plan on using a lot of scrolls that need actual caster level.

Thurbane
2011-01-13, 03:06 PM
There;s a feat in Complete Mage - Magic Device Attunement. Once you've UMDd an item once, you can attune to it so that you can use it automatically without needing to roll again for 24 hours.

Ravens_cry
2011-01-13, 03:10 PM
It's cheese to ask your DM if you can have an item that follows the rules in the DMG for creating them?
They are not rules, they are suggestions, giving you a good starting place. Some items are worth more, others are worth less, and are priced accordingly.
In short, talk to your DM about it. My DM didn't mind it when I asked to get some custom Ride skill items, but I asked before I spent the money.

ericgrau
2011-01-13, 03:27 PM
The reliable way to activate a wand at low levels is to keep retrying. Unless you roll a 1 there's not much drawback, and even then it merely keeps you from retrying for 24 hours. If you fail by 10 or more you suffer a mishap, but that's easily avoided by having a modifier of +10 or higher so it can't happen. Even if you do hit a mishap it's a lost charge and a minor drawback.

So basically you load up on non-combat wands and scrolls, because those are the ones you have time to retry on. Invisibility is one of my favorites. The +4 skill synergy bonuses on scrolls makes scrolls of up to caster level 4 as easy as wands. As you reach higher levels you can get the above magic items and so on and then UMD during combat if you want once you hit a +20 modifier. I wouldn't blow a feat on it unless you plan on making a UMD centered character.

Hober Mallow
2011-01-15, 12:18 PM
The best I've found is the 2nd level Bard spell "Magic Savant" from Complete Mage.

Swift action to cast, lasts 1 round / level. It lets you to take 10 with Use Magic Device (and also gives a +4 insight bonus). You need 10 ranks in Use Magic Device for the spell to work.

I've found it incredibly useful when casting high caster level scrolls of high level spells since most Bards also have to make an emulate ability check due to low WIS / not high enough INT.

So you need two UMD checks, DC = 25 + spell level to emulate the ability plus DC = 20 + caster level to cast the spell. Magic Savant makes this fairly easy as long as you've maximised your Use Magic Device skill.