(3.5) A certain ability.

[Goonthegoof]

There was something- a feat, a class ability perhaps, I can't remember exactly what- that allowed you to choose a spell and cast it unlimited times, but it could only be a spell of the maximum level you could cast -8. However I can't remember anything apart from that and I hope I'm not remembering something that never existed. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

[Runestar]

Innate spell, complete arcane. Basically a metamagic feat with +8 slot adjustment.

[Goonthegoof]

Thank you. Second question, can you use the Earth Sense/Earth Spell/Heighten Spell/Versatile Spellcaster trick to get a spell higher than first?

[Shenanigans]

I'm not familiar with that trick and I'm away from my books, but my thought would be to try Arcane Thesis, Incantatrix, Metamagic School Focus, and the like to get a higher level spell.

[Bakkan]

Unfortunately, Innate Spell is not actually a metamagic feat, so metamagic reducers of any kind wouldn't work. The wording of Innate Spell seems very solid, and I don't see any way to get an Innate spell higher than 1st level without spell slots of 10th level or higher.

[BiblioRook]

Any way any of these things can work for Divine casters too? Or is it more just limited to Arcane?

[Stegyre]

Any way any of these things can work for Divine casters too? Or is it more just limited to Arcane?
Innate spell is not limited to arcane casters.

Anyone who has the prereqs can take it: Quicken Spell, Silent Spell, Still Spell,

and of course, at least a 9th-level spell slot (or an 8th level slot for a 0-level spell).

[Myth]

Silent+Still are both kind of meh feats. Not the level of Toughness but pretty sub-par compared to twin, repeat, ocular, persist etc.

A level 9 slot IMO is better spent on actual level 9 spells. Also, there is the option of reserve feats which might simulate what you need.

[Duke of URL]

Silent+Still are both kind of meh feats. Not the level of Toughness but pretty sub-par compared to twin, repeat, ocular, persist etc.

They can be situationally useful, especially to a spontaneous caster. And when considering low epic levels, auto-Still and auto-Silent are nice to have if you can spare the feats.


A level 9 slot IMO is better spent on actual level 9 spells. Also, there is the option of reserve feats which might simulate what you need.

Burn 1 9th level slot for unlimited use of a 1st level spell... I think with the right choice of spell, it could be worth it. Not if it's your only 9th level slot, certainly, but I could see it worth it for certain special cases. (E.g., for a gish or rogusish wizard, true strike at will could be very, very useful...) You're best looking for spells that gain a lot of use from being spammed, and don't depend on save DC or allow spell resistance.

[Douglas]

Thank you. Second question, can you use the Earth Sense/Earth Spell/Heighten Spell/Versatile Spellcaster trick to get a spell higher than first?
No, there's no way around the cost for this one. It's not actually a metamagic feat, and you specifically have to sacrifice a spell slot. If you don't have an actual spell slot of the appropriate level, then you can't do it.

Now, you could use such tricks with Heighten Spell to make Extra Slot give you a high enough level slot which you could then spend, but that will just let you take it earlier and you might prefer to spend it on actually casting spells of that level instead.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Now, you could use such tricks with Heighten Spell to make Extra Slot give you a high enough level slot which you could then spend, but that will just let you take it earlier and you might prefer to spend it on actually casting spells of that level instead.

Doing that with a Red Wizard's or Hathran's circle magic would be nice. Having a 11th-level spell at will from sacrificing a 19th-level slot has potential, to put it mildly.

[CockroachTeaParty]

What 1st level spells are worth casting at will by the time you hit level 17+?

Is there any way to finagle the Trapsmith's 1st level Haste spell into the mix? Archivist, maybe?

[holywhippet]

Might be worth noting, one of the high arcana tricks an archmage can learn is to permanently sacrifice a spell slot to be able to cast a spell a spell twice (or more if they sacrifice a higher level slot) a day as a spell like ability without needing to prepare the spell.

[Myth]

They can be situationally useful, especially to a spontaneous caster. And when considering low epic levels, auto-Still and auto-Silent are nice to have if you can spare the feats.The Auto-line of metamagic just furthers the gap of Epic casting vs other classes and their features. However if you have Epic Spellcasting this becomes moot pretty quickly. Auto-quicken is better because the action economy is what matters anyway.


Burn 1 9th level slot for unlimited use of a 1st level spell... I think with the right choice of spell, it could be worth it. Not if it's your only 9th level slot, certainly, but I could see it worth it for certain special cases. (E.g., for a gish or rogusish wizard, true strike at will could be very, very useful...) You're best looking for spells that gain a lot of use from being spammed, and don't depend on save DC or allow spell resistance.I can think of no example of a lvl 1 spell spammed indefinitely be worth a 9th level slot. If you need so many castings you can easily buy lvl 1 Pearls of Power. At only 1k a pop you can have 20 or 30 castings on the cheap for a 20+ wbl.

Also, a gish using anything other than Quickened True Strike is wasting a standard action. Not to mention most gishes would prefer to have extended or persisted Wraithstrike instead, seeing as how True Strike applies to a single attack roll and not a full attack routine.

[Radar]

Depending on the wording of Innate Spell, Sanctum Spell metamagic might enable the use of 2nd level spells (treated as 1st level thanks to Sanctum Spell). If so, Command Undead could be hilarious in undead heavy cmapaignes or for a dedicated necromancer to extend his undead army way beyond his HD limit. Other then that Glitterdust is always nice to have

[Duke of URL]

1st level arcane spells possibly worth having at will:

Grease - Always fun, low DC though
Insightful Feint - For beguilers
Protection From X - Always useful, short duration, not level-dependent
Repair Light Damage - if you're a construct or like to craft them
Shield - Always useful, relatively short duration

1st level divine spells possibly worth having at will:

Cure Light Wounds - Everyone back to full strength after every encounter. Winds of lesser vigor ar cheap, though.
Divine Favor - 'nuff said (good candidate for Persist instead. however)
Entropic Shield - Miss chances are good
Grave Strike - For sneak attack multiclassers
Protection From X - Always useful, short duration, not level-dependent
Shield of Faith - Not as good as shield, if only because you're likely to have deflection via items

[Thespianus]

Spamming the world with the Mount spell might not be very effective, but ...well, you can get a LOT of horses this way. ;)

[The-Mage-King]

Magic Missile.

Take Supernatural Transformation.

Laugh as you unleash supernatural death upon everything.

[Radar]

Magic Missile.

Take Supernatural Transformation.

Laugh as you unleash supernatural death upon everything.
It would be sooo efficient (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VDvgL58h_Y). :smalltongue:

[HunterOfJello]

If you have 44 for your spellcasting stat and multiple Improved Spell Capacity [Epic] feats, then it can work out very well for you.

A 9th level spell at-will would be nice.

[Thiyr]

No, there's no way around the cost for this one. It's not actually a metamagic feat, and you specifically have to sacrifice a spell slot. If you don't have an actual spell slot of the appropriate level, then you can't do it.

Now, you could use such tricks with Heighten Spell to make Extra Slot give you a high enough level slot which you could then spend, but that will just let you take it earlier and you might prefer to spend it on actually casting spells of that level instead.

Actually, something like sanctum spell would (as far as I can see at least) would work to get you second level spells, so long as you're getting innate spell outside of your sanctum, considering the wording is "one spell slot eight levels higher than the innate spell is permanently used to power it". Of course, you can't use it if you're in your sanctum, but that's always the issue with sanctum spell, isn't it?