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Yora

2011-01-13, 01:32 PM

I love singing. I usually get bored with trying to learn an instrument because I just can't remember all the ways my fingers have to go and it's frustrating to spend months just getting some notes in the right order but without any rythm. With singing, all these problems are irrelevant. (Though others arise.)

However, I'm afraid I'm a pretty bad singer. :smallbiggrin:
I neither have the monney, nor yet the commitment for regular singing lessons, but lot's of good singers didn't need singing lessons either. And I don't want to become professional or something like that, I just have fun singing at home and want to improve it.
But unfortunately, all you find online when looking for "learn singing" or something like that ends you on some good looking sites that manage to disguise for the first five minutes of reading that they are really just advertisments for some commercial stuff you should buy.

As with every other skill, singing really comes down to practice, practice, and practice. I do find some videos of breathing excercises and ways to improve my voice, but as someone who always really played everything on an instrument by ear (I'd completely memorize all the keys and then play piano from memory), I don't know anything about the finer aspects of the art. I can identify full, half, quarter and eigth notes and know that the sounds are labeled c d e f g a h c and that something about them repeats the higher or lower you get. But that's about it.
But what do I do with tips how to improve my (musical babble) if I can't even get the right tones?

Anyone else here who really likes to thing, and maybe encountered simmilar obstacles?

Jair Barik

2011-01-13, 01:50 PM

I'm an all right singer but I don't intend to take lessons. I'm good enough for panto but not much else really. Personally I found singing along to music is a good way to practice singing, not necessarily complicated or modern music, not pop or anything like that but good old fashioned 'fun' music from films and such like (everyone likes a bit of disney!). Really just sing what you enjoy, have fun.
I personally get really self conscious singing if its not on stage/practicing with others so if you do want to practice you may find it easier doing it when your on your own or, alternatively, with a group of like minded friends.

WalkingTarget

2011-01-13, 02:19 PM

I like singing, I dislike audiences.

I was in my school's chorus from 7th through 12th grade and went to the IMEA district choir performance every year that I could do so and had a lot of fun.

Singing solo or as part of a very small ensemble... :eek:

Singing along with popular music is kinda tricky. Not many lead singers sing bass and dropping a tenor's part an octave sometimes drops out of the bottom of my register. I have to choose carefully when it's my turn at vocals when playing Rock Band since I'm self-conscious enough to only want to do songs I can do well (as opposed to most others' response of just hamming it up).

It's been years since I've done anything organized. Sometimes I think that it'd be fun to try to get into something again, but I'd have to 1) track some organization down that would have me and 2) actually be willing to take the time to go to rehearsals and whatnot.

snoopy13a

2011-01-13, 02:34 PM

You could try joining an amateur choral group. They'd also tell you how good of a singer you are.

randman22222

2011-01-13, 02:50 PM

(Heh, H existiert nur in Deutsch.)

I'm... a singer. Kind of. I recorded myself for the first time a month or two ago, and haven't truly sang since. My chest voice is a normal tenor's chest voice, but in throat and head, I sound like a castrato. Or treble. Or something. It's embarrassing, and I can't call myself a singer while I'm this ashamed of my voice.

Anyway, YES. Like the others recommended, JOIN A CHOIR. If you keep your ears wide open, and pay attention to your voice's relation to the others', it's one of the BEST things a musician of any type can do. And you'll end up learning a bit of theory along the way. GREAT if you wanna write your own songs, or help others writing.

Yora

2011-01-13, 03:59 PM

I found this little programm. Link: Canta (http://www.singintune.org/). It's actually made to sing in sync with midis almost exactly like Sing Star, but I still havn't found a reliable way to convert mp3s to midi and you don't get everything you like as midi. But even then, it can show you what notes you are singing. So if you have the notes to something, you can record your voice and compare the notes with the tone the program shows to see where you're off. Though the interface could be a lot better.

Somehow I seem to almost always a half-note off, which would explain why it never sounds completely right.
And I should have started at an earlier age. Now my range is from a1 to a2, if I read the output correctly. I guess that means a lot of voice training. :smallbiggrin:
But now I only realize when legendary singers are said to have been able to cover 8 octaves.

Haruki-kun

2011-01-13, 04:19 PM

I'm singing in the Playground,
just singing in the Playground,
what a glorious feeling,
I'm happy again...

...come on, I can't be the only one who thought of that. :smalltongue:

Castaras

2011-01-13, 04:26 PM

Yora

2011-01-13, 04:46 PM

I can't read those numbers.
A2 could be a' and would be the highest note commonly for tenors.
A2 could also be a'' but that would be beyond the range of sopran. I think we can rule this one out.
A2 could also be A2, which would be one octave below a, and make me an extremely deep bass. I'm pretty sure I can rule that out as well.

Or the charts I'm looking it are bogus.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/7/7a/Tonh%C3%B6hen_der_stimmlagen.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_pitch_notation#Table_of_note_frequencie s

Castaras

2011-01-13, 04:50 PM

Yora

2011-01-13, 04:55 PM

I added the assumed coding to the chart.
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/637/soundc.png
When I showed it my brother, his sole response was "gay". :smallbiggrin:

Castaras

2011-01-13, 04:57 PM

You've got the chart 1 too high I believe, otherwise both me and my mum are Castratos (that the right word?). :smallamused:

randman22222

2011-01-13, 04:58 PM

I added the assumed coding to the chart.
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/637/soundc.png
When I showed it my brother, his sole response was "gay". :smallbiggrin:

Hmm. According to that chart, I'm not actually a tenor. I'm a countertenor. Woo! Feminine voice! :smallsigh:

Oh, and there are two numbering systems. They are separated by one. That probably explains it, Castaras.

@V: Fixed.

Yora

2011-01-13, 05:00 PM

Yeah, it's right, the numbers are one too high. If Frequency is Hz, then my tone range is exactly one lower than I wrote at the chart. Give me a moment to fix it. :smallbiggrin:

Edit: Fixed. (Randmans post still has the wrong one)
This puts me in the range of "really boring". :smallfrown:
Though I found that I can still get rather clear tones up to one octave higher. I just can't articulate any intelligble words there. But maybe that's something training can help with.

randman22222

2011-01-13, 05:13 PM

Yeah, it's right, the numbers are one too high. If Frequency is Hz, then my tone range is exactly one lower than I wrote at the chart. Give me a moment to fix it. :smallbiggrin:

Edit: Fixed. :smallfrown:

That does make a bit more sense. It puts me in the Baritone range, with an extended range just into the counter-tenor region. (Comfortably. I can get farther into counter-tenor, or into bass, but those are quiet or unpleasant sounds.) Either way, I sound like a treble. :smallfrown:

Also, the IMG tag is broken. Well, not the tag, but the URL.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll

2011-01-13, 05:22 PM

I have a verrrrry deep voice. Make's it difficult to sing popular songs, aye, it does. Used to sing in choir. Don't anymore. I still sing to myself once in a while. My singing voice is meh, but I don't mind.

Yora

2011-01-13, 05:28 PM

Now fixed.

(Stupid piece of sh... :smallbiggrin: )

But all this playing around with charts is actually interesting. I often have problems with deeper notes at the end of the chorus in many songs. But apparently it's not the range of my voice, that doesn't go deep enoug, but I'm really making something wrong.

Blue Ghost

2011-01-13, 10:46 PM

I love to sing, and will do it at every opportunity. (Am taking a few levels in bard.)
But I am not a good singer. I would like to learn, but I don't really have the time or the commitment now.

Perenelle

2011-01-13, 10:53 PM

I'm singing in the Playground,
just singing in the Playground,
what a glorious feeling,
I'm happy again...

...come on, I can't be the only one who thought of that. :smalltongue:

Gah, beat me to it. :smalltongue:

I wish I was able to sing. I'm so self conscious about it that I rarely even sing when i'm alone. :smallsigh: I used to be in chorus in elementary school, but that doesn't really count...

MoonCat

2011-01-13, 11:22 PM

I love to sing, and used to do it a lot. Sadly, I've been busy lately, and haven't done it very much. More's the pity, as I was considered good at it.

blackfox

2011-01-13, 11:41 PM

*chart*Do you possibly have yourself marked an octave too low on that chart? I'm a low alto (E3-E5) and I can't hit the notes you have as being at the bottom of your range (A2...), but I could easily see a novice female singer being able to have the range you have marked, but an octave up (A3-Eb5).

As for singing in general, best thing to do is practice reading and practice singing along with things. If you can match pitch, that is, sing exactly a pitch that has been played for you, then you can learn pretty much everything else.

What kind of music do you listen to, and what kind of singing are you interested in? I'm going to second snoopy's suggestion that you join a choir somewhere. I probably learned most of how to sing well from being in choirs.

Lady Moreta

2011-01-14, 03:21 AM

As with every other skill, singing really comes down to practice, practice, and practice. I do find some videos of breathing excercises and ways to improve my voice, but as someone who always really played everything on an instrument by ear (I'd completely memorize all the keys and then play piano from memory), I don't know anything about the finer aspects of the art. I can identify full, half, quarter and eigth notes and know that the sounds are labeled c d e f g a h c and that something about them repeats the higher or lower you get. But that's about it.
But what do I do with tips how to improve my (musical babble) if I can't even get the right tones?

Perhaps it's a language-thing since you're in Germany, but the note between 'a' and 'c' is a 'b'... Since you know the notes, I think some rudimentary theory would probably help, along with learning to read music and musical notation. I too love to sing, but I also spent a lot of time learning musical instruments as a child and as a result I have okay theory and can read music. It makes it so much easier to sing.[/QUOTE]

Singing along with popular music is kinda tricky. Not many lead singers sing bass and dropping a tenor's part an octave sometimes drops out of the bottom of my register. I have to choose carefully when it's my turn at vocals when playing Rock Band since I'm self-conscious enough to only want to do songs I can do well (as opposed to most others' response of just hamming it up).

Especially since they tend to sing as they feel and generally a song won't be sung the same way twice. Not to mention the fact that they frequently don't sing a song the way it's actually written.

I have a good singing voice. I also have a good enough musical ear that I can start on the right note to a song without a reference note. >.> This does mean I get twitchy when I hear a song that's transposed to a key I haven't heard it at before...<.<

I can do that too - most of the time. It depends on how well I know the song... I can get the right note, but I have a bad habit of starting at a pitch that's too high for my range (which is alto, but annoying limited).

Yeah, it's right, the numbers are one too high. If Frequency is Hz, then my tone range is exactly one lower than I wrote at the chart. Give me a moment to fix it. :smallbiggrin:

Edit: Fixed. (Randmans post still has the wrong one)
This puts me in the range of "really boring". :smallfrown:
Though I found that I can still get rather clear tones up to one octave higher. I just can't articulate any intelligble words there. But maybe that's something training can help with.

That's a pretty nifty chart - and if it reads the way I think it reads, you've got an incredibly low voice for a woman with no vocal training. Does it note which is middle C? That's the note that I base my range off, so I'm struggling to read the chart without knowing which note is the one I should be looking at. All I know is that when I'm warmed up properly I can go from the g below middle c to the e an octave above - not a great range, but meh it suits me well enough.

As for getting experience, others have said, and I agree - joining a choir will be the best thing for you. I was in choirs through high school and when I lived in a hall of resisdence for a couple of years. Now I've spent four years on the worship team for church - meaning I'm part of the group who sing up the front on Sunday mornings. I can be anything from one of five singers to one of two. Honestly, this has been the thing that's given me the most experience and training with my voice. I've gone from being very hesitant, especially in songs that were too high for me, to making up my own harmonies and being one of the strongest female singers in the entire team.

I would also suggest getting hold of a Singstar type game, those songs aren't always the easiest to sing, but they will help you see where you're going wrong and what notes you have trouble with. Remember that all the game cares about is the note, so if you can't hit it go up or down an octave and it won't notice or care.

Breathe from the diaphragm, not the stomach. Basically this means that when you breath your chest should go up and down vertically, not your stomach going in and out. If you've got a fast song take lots of little breaths (like you're trying to make yourself hyper-ventilate - only don't actually hyper-ventilate) instead of taking big, long breaths at longer intervals, you'll lose your timing. If you can get hold of the Singstar disc that has One Week by the Barenaked Ladies on it, that's a great one to practice too. Insanely fast, not easy to sing, but so much fun and a great breathing exercise.

Probably the most important thing is to make sure you warm up your voice. Have a search for vocal warm ups and make sure you do them if you're going to be singing for any length of time - especially if you're planning to reach the limits of your range (high or low). If you aren't warmed up you'll do more harm than good. Also, if you're going to be singing, no milk or chocolate and drink warm water not cold.

And when I get home I think I shall crank out the Singstar :smallbiggrin: and have a look at that link and see if I can't figure it out myself. I'd be interested to see what my actual range is according to something impartial and not just me going 'eeee that's too high!'

edit: I thought of a couple of other things to suggest for getting better... one is avoid singing on a full stomach, it will make life very uncomfortable for you.

Second thing is - one way to get better is to practice singing with only the music of the song, not anyone else singing the words. Two ways I can think of to do this... one is to get hold of a game like Singstar, practice your songs up and then one day try singing along but turn the volume down so you can't hear the music from the game itself. Keep an eye on the bars and see how you go without 'singing along'. The second thing is to find backing tracks, the musical accompaniment to a song without the actual words being sung and in some cases the accompaniment doesn't actually involve the tune either, except in places. A friend and I did this for our Christmas day service at church - we sang O Holy Night as a duet. There wasn't anyone who could play it, so she found a lovely backing track (that was just accompaniment, it didn't have the tune itself running through it) and we sang to that. Sounded pretty good, even if I do say it myself.

Yora

2011-01-14, 05:05 AM

The answer to the great mystery: I'm not a woman, I just don't have a problem with an avatar in a dress, when it looks cool. :smallbiggrin:

When it comes to breathing excercises, there are quite a number of videos on youtube, and to someone who doesn't know anything about professional singing, the tipps sound really good.

And yes, the h is kind of a language thing as randman said. Though there's also a b that's somehow the same tone as h, but also not. Don't ask me, I never understood it. :smallbiggrin:

Though I usually don't listen to it, the kind of things I like to sing a Queen, Robbie Williams, and Tom Jones. Their music is just a lot of fun to sing.
Edit: I was just digging through my old CDs, and OMG, what awsome stuff I have I totaly forgott about. :smallbiggrin: Guano Apes and Disturbed have also some great songs for singing, and I even found two or three from Creed.
I'm the little brother of "90's Kid (http://thatguywiththeglasses.wikia.com/wiki/%2790s_Kid)". :smallamused:

Eldan

2011-01-14, 06:01 AM

Have I mentioned before that I'm totally tone deaf? I think I have.

See, my piano teacher almost got a heart attack every single time I couldn't tell if a chord was wrong or correct.

But we also had mandatory choir lessons for two years, and that was worse. I honestly couldn't tell if I was singing the same note was everyone else or not. Sometimes, I was sure I was singing a note higher, and the teacher told me I wasn't.

So, yeah. Not a good singer. I am, apparently, also a student of the "kinda flat, but very loud" school of singing.

Nameless

2011-01-14, 06:29 AM

I sing when I have my headphones on. That way I can't hear myself.
Unless the voice uses harsh vocals, in which case I scream.

Good times.

Coidzor

2011-01-14, 07:14 AM

I'm a fairly mediocre tenor (http://www.youtube.com/coid), but I rather enjoy it.

Thufir

2011-01-14, 07:46 AM

And yes, the h is kind of a language thing as randman said. Though there's also a b that's somehow the same tone as h, but also not. Don't ask me, I never understood it. :smallbiggrin:

Note translation:
{table=head]English|German
Bb|B
B|H[/table]

And, I'm a tenor with about a 3 octave range. Which allows me to sing anything between bass and alto pretty comfortably. :smallcool:

RedDeerJebediah

2011-01-14, 07:59 AM

And yes, the h is kind of a language thing as randman said. Though there's also a b that's somehow the same tone as h, but also not. Don't ask me, I never understood it. :smallbiggrin:

This I can explain. Here in Denmark we had the same system of naming the notes of the c major scale c, d, e, f, g, a, and h. (It's actually been officially changed as of a few months ago, but nevermind that). When playing an h flat (or Hb) it was just labelled Bb instead and later shortened to b. Supposedly this all stems from a typo made by German monk copying sheet music several centuries ago, but that seems a bit too far-fetched to be believed =p

Anyhow, with regards to singing, the best way to go about it is to join a choir. This will help you stay in tune, give you a better understanding of harmony, and most of the time the conductor/pianist (or whoever may be considered the "leader" of the choir) will have everyone go through some warm-up exercises that will radically improve your singing over time.
A completely unsolicited piece of commentary: learning how to sing is not necessarily easier than learning how to play an instrument. One may be naturally more gifted at one than the other, but in most cases the same patience is required in learning either. So don't give up just because it's difficult. Learning how to express yourself musically is one of the best things you can do for yourself.

I wish you the best of luck in your musical endeavours :smallsmile:

EDIT: Damn ninjas! Explaining the same point in a far superior manner :smalltongue:

I might as well throw in now that I've been singing in choirs and various other situations for about three years now. My chest voice has a range of about 2,5 octave, from just about the low C to G above middle C, maybe an A on a good day. I'd like to take a shot at being a lead singer in a band some time - the band I'm in has a true rock tenor lead (completely self-taught, even) capable of reaching high C's and D's, which has diminshed my enthusiasm for lead singing a bit for the time being =p
I've also somehow taught myself how to do death metal growls.

Lady Moreta

2011-01-14, 08:18 AM

The answer to the great mystery: I'm not a woman, I just don't have a problem with an avatar in a dress, when it looks cool. :smallbiggrin:

Oops :smallredface::smallredface::smallredface:

*notices your avatar for the first time*

Eeee, that is so cool! :smallbiggrin: It's a stick figure of the bards can be awesome picture! I love that picture (my first serious D&D character was/is a bard - she ain't dead yet). I'm so jealous :smalltongue:

Though I usually don't listen to it, the kind of things I like to sing a Queen, Robbie Williams, and Tom Jones. Their music is just a lot of fun to sing

I'm not a huge fan of any of those artists, but I have to agree with you on all counts. They are all good singalong musicians - good solid tunes, easy to follow and easy to hear the individual notes.

I'm a fairly mediocre tenor (http://www.youtube.com/coid), but I rather enjoy it.

You're good :smallsmile: From a musical? (I admit it, I zoned out during your explanation of the song, I got sidetracked by A) the fact you look good dressed up and B) the pretty grand piano behind you). It strikes me as not a very easy song to sing acapella. I'm imagining bright springy drum beat, stage set up as a boat, possibly palm trees, bunch of guys whiny there's no girls :smallsmile:

And, I'm a tenor with about a 3 octave range. Which allows me to sing anything between bass and alto pretty comfortably. :smallcool:

Except that alto is feminine - between bass and tenor for guys :smalltongue:

Sorry, that's a pet peeve of mine. Basic male range is bass, baritone, lead, tenor. Basic female range is contralto, also, mezzosoprano, soprano. Having said that, this is just what I've gleaned from years of singing myself - I've never actually read it any place official so I could be wrong. Still a pet peeve though.

Thufir

2011-01-14, 09:04 AM

Except that alto is feminine - between bass and tenor for guys :smalltongue:

Sorry, that's a pet peeve of mine. Basic male range is bass, baritone, lead, tenor. Basic female range is contralto, also, mezzosoprano, soprano. Having said that, this is just what I've gleaned from years of singing myself - I've never actually read it any place official so I could be wrong. Still a pet peeve though.

Yeah, but that's down to typical vocal ranges. It's not defined as alto = female, it's alto = certain vocal range. That vocal range is within my vocal range, therefore I can sing alto. Hell, I can probably manage mezzo-soprano, though it's a bit more of a strain. Get me drunk and I can sing most soprano parts, though I may lose some of my bass range (However it will return with a vengeance the following morning.

Yora

2011-01-14, 01:05 PM

This I can explain. Here in Denmark we had the same system of naming the notes of the c major scale c, d, e, f, g, a, and h. (It's actually been officially changed as of a few months ago, but nevermind that). When playing an h flat (or Hb) it was just labelled Bb instead and later shortened to b. Supposedly this all stems from a typo made by German monk copying sheet music several centuries ago, but that seems a bit too far-fetched to be believed =p
A meaningless symbol got mixed up with another one that looks almost the same? You wouldn't belive how many huge and important theological and philosophical concepts can be traced back to a single tiny typo. Writing h instead of b: Completely plausible. :smallbiggrin:

THAC0

2011-01-14, 04:44 PM

Note translation:
{table=head]English|German
Bb|B
B|H[/table]

May I comment on how darned annoying this is?

I mean, it's pretty much a non-issue most of the time. But there are two aspects that make it super annoying.

1) I teach elementary music. I have a set of Orff instruments (like little xylophones) that accommodate this by labeling the B bar as H/B. This is Incredibly Confusing to small children and leads, no matter how frequently I explain, to repeated questions.

2) I'm a french horn player. French horn players frequently have to transpose music - it will say "Horn in Eb" or "Horn in C" or whatever. Problem: When it says "Horn in B," you never know if they mean "B" or "Bb." So either you have to do a lot of research or (easier) pick one and play it and see if it fits with the rest of the ensemble or if you're a half-step off. :smallmad:

Yora

2011-01-14, 05:43 PM

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll

2011-01-14, 06:47 PM

One thing that really confused me when looking up these things, but I didn't pay much attention to before:
Why aren't there half tones above e and b? If the change in frequence betwen tones is always the same, why are those two skipped?

Because the scale isn't built around the notes, the notes are placed onto the scales. The Major scale has halftones in it, and they decided for some reason to start the scale at C, and that everything would be be based on C Major. When this happened, the two half tones happened to fall after e and b.

Lady Moreta

2011-01-14, 09:25 PM

Yeah, but that's down to typical vocal ranges. It's not defined as alto = female, it's alto = certain vocal range. That vocal range is within my vocal range, therefore I can sing alto. Hell, I can probably manage mezzo-soprano, though it's a bit more of a strain. Get me drunk and I can sing most soprano parts, though I may lose some of my bass range (However it will return with a vengeance the following morning.

Ahhh, see that makes a lot more sense. Told you I didn't really know what I was talking about :smalltongue:

UserClone

2011-01-14, 10:16 PM

I understand it wouldn't make me the first, but would this thread or The You Thread be the more appropriate place to post one's youtube singing videos? I has a few. :smallsmile:

Skeppio

2011-01-14, 10:17 PM

I've seen people do that a few times on the You Thread, so I'm pretty sure it's fine to post it there. :smallsmile:

UserClone

2011-01-14, 11:02 PM

Thanks, much appreciated.

blackfox

2011-01-15, 12:34 AM

The answer to the great mystery: I'm not a woman, I just don't have a problem with an avatar in a dress, when it looks cool. :smallbiggrin:Oh, derp. :smallredface: Without the gender symbol on the left side of the page I usually just go by the avatar. Sorry!

Though I usually don't listen to it, the kind of things I like to sing a Queen, Robbie Williams, and Tom Jones. Their music is just a lot of fun to sing.
Edit: I was just digging through my old CDs, and OMG, what awsome stuff I have I totaly forgott about. :smallbiggrin: Guano Apes and Disturbed have also some great songs for singing, and I even found two or three from Creed.
I'm the little brother of "90's Kid (http://thatguywiththeglasses.wikia.com/wiki/%2790s_Kid)". :smallamused:Queen is good, although might be hard with your range? can't really remember. Freddie Mercury is a good singer. Disturbed works, it's usually within my range, should be within yours then. Don't know any of the other artists, unfortuantely.

Partof1

2011-01-15, 01:36 AM

I mostly just sing in the shower, but I don't think I'm too bad. :P

Trog

2011-01-15, 02:05 AM

I sing when I'm alone in the car. On good days I do pretty well, I think. Sadly those days are few and far between. Most of the time I'm passable and some of the time I'm awful. I have a hard time staying in key and modulating my voice. At first I could only do it properly by singing loudly. As I've practiced more I don't always have to sing with force to get the note I want to hit.

I think I have a good voice I just don't have good control. =/

AsteriskAmp

2011-01-15, 02:14 AM

I sing to the openings of some animes, Strawberry Panic second opening is one of my favourites, though I normally do so while listening to my I-Pod and onlookers normally look at me since well, I sing in Japanese and my voice is awful and well, lets say that the fact that I can hit high notes at my age is disturbing in itself.

Lady Moreta

2011-01-15, 04:25 AM

Queen is good, although might be hard with your range? can't really remember. Freddie Mercury is a good singer. Disturbed works, it's usually within my range, should be within yours then. Don't know any of the other artists, unfortuantely.

Queen is hard! My husband and I bought the Queen for singstar a while ago and just played it last night. Far out some of those songs are hard. Not helped by the fact that I was really tired and my voice was waaaay off.

I sing when I'm alone in the car. On good days I do pretty well, I think. Sadly those days are few and far between. Most of the time I'm passable and some of the time I'm awful. I have a hard time staying in key and modulating my voice. At first I could only do it properly by singing loudly. As I've practiced more I don't always have to sing with force to get the note I want to hit.

I think I have a good voice I just don't have good control. =/

This sounds like me. I have a good voice - not hugely great and I certainly wouldn't win any Idol show with it :smalltongue: I call it a church/choir voice. I can keep in time, I can keep in tune and I have a good sound... but my control sucks. Singing at church has been the biggest thing that's helped me with that... and really the only way to get any better is to practice.

Yora

2011-01-15, 05:37 AM

Oh, derp. :smallredface: Without the gender symbol on the left side of the page I usually just go by the avatar. Sorry!

Queen is good, although might be hard with your range? can't really remember. Freddie Mercury is a good singer. Disturbed works, it's usually within my range, should be within yours then. Don't know any of the other artists, unfortuantely.
I noticed that I havn't developed my head voice much, I almost always sing with my chest voice. I hope with some training I can learn to get a considerably greater range.

Frozen_Feet

2011-01-15, 07:35 AM

I love singing. Unfortunately, since I only started getting into music at 15 years of age, I haven't had musical training since I was 13. I often experiment with my voice by trying to sing along with my favorite songs, and I hear the results are pretty awful most of the time. XD I've been planning to buy a karaoke game or something to practice with, but so far no luck.

Thanks for Canta - the microphone that game with my laptop will finally see some use.

Thufir

2011-01-15, 07:52 AM

and well, lets say that the fact that I can hit high notes at my age is disturbing in itself.

Define 'high notes'. :smallamused:

Frozen_Feet

2011-01-15, 08:05 AM

By the way, what was that thing about not drinking milk?

AsteriskAmp

2011-01-15, 09:56 AM

Define 'high notes'. :smallamused:

Anything above C3 is disturbing after your voice changes.

blackfox

2011-01-15, 11:29 AM

By the way, what was that thing about not drinking milk?Consuming dairy products, especially ice cream or milk, right before a performance will cause there to be a lot of phlegm build-up and will make it more difficult to sing.

I noticed that I havn't developed my head voice much, I almost always sing with my chest voice. I hope with some training I can learn to get a considerably greater range.Most people can improve their range with practice, kind of like people can improve their physical flexibility with practice and exercise.

Queen is hard!Which is why it's good to practice with :smallbiggrin: Also it's fun. >.>

Thufir

2011-01-15, 11:46 AM

Anything above C3 is disturbing after your voice changes.

Woo! I'm disturbing!

Wait... C3? You mean middle C?
You have a really skewed view on what is disturbing. Going above middle C is standard for tenors.

AsteriskAmp

2011-01-15, 11:56 AM

Woo! I'm disturbing!

Wait... C3? You mean middle C?
You have a really skewed view on what is disturbing. Going above middle C is standard for tenors.

Middle C is C4.

Thufir

2011-01-15, 12:01 PM

Middle C is C4.

Well that's even weirder of you. Going above the C below middle C is standard for everyone.

Frozen_Feet

2011-01-15, 12:01 PM

I don't think my laptop mic is up to this stuff after all. ~_~;; My normal singing voice is too loud for the thing to register properly, and trying to sing quietly seem to register as way too low or otherwise inconsistent (fluctuating between 180 and 400 hZ while holding a note, for example. That... doesn't seem quite right.)

Anyways, does anyone have links to some good practice midis?

Anything above C3 is disturbing after your voice changes.
Going by the explanation on Canta's homepage, I think you're referring to the change that happens when you go from heavy to light method of producing voice.

CrimsonAngel

2011-01-15, 12:07 PM

A couple kids got microphones from an AP yesterday at lunch and... broke out into song. I think they were breaking up in style or something? I don't care, the guy's voice made my ears orgasm.

Yora

2011-01-15, 01:44 PM

The human body can adapt to almost any conditions, provided you train enough and survive it. :smallbiggrin: Some people have an easier start than others, but the actual upper limits of a body are way higher than people usually suspect.
Fortunately my parents are both huge music fans and it was rare not to have some kind of music playing in our home. I think this helped me to develop a very good sense for melody and rythm from very early on, this should be extremely helpful for learning any kind of music.

AsteriskAmp

2011-01-15, 01:55 PM

Well that's even weirder of you. Going above the C below middle C is standard for everyone.

C3 is above C4, it goes from C8 (lowest) to C1 (Highest) IIRC.

Yora

2011-01-15, 02:16 PM

It really depends on what kind of system you're using to define the notes. I've seen quite a number of different ones when looking these things up in the last days.

KenderWizard

2011-01-15, 02:53 PM

I love singing! I'm a high soprano voice, and I was in two choirs for a few years, that I loved. Now I've gone to college, I don't have choir anymore, because I can't read music so I'm too shy to audition, because I won't be able to do the cold read. :smallfrown:

I sing in the shower, in the kitchen, in the bedroom, on the street, while I'm drawing, while I'm cleaning, at parties, with Rock Band, when my boyfriend would rather I didn't, whenever anyone else is, any time I can get away with it, really!

I downloaded the thingy, but I don't have any midi files on this computer. Where can I get some?

AsteriskAmp

2011-01-15, 02:58 PM

UserClone

2011-01-15, 04:07 PM

I wish someone on here would record me the piano part of this song I want to make a singing video of - that would be fun!:smallbiggrin:

AsteriskAmp

2011-01-15, 04:16 PM

I wish someone on here would record me the piano part of this song I want to make a singing video of - that would be fun!:smallbiggrin:

Which song? Do you have sheet music or even just the chord progression?
I can record the piano part if you like.

UserClone

2011-01-15, 04:42 PM

"All Will Be Well" by The Gabe Dixon Band. I don't have the sheet music for it because it isn't free. :smallfrown:

AsteriskAmp

2011-01-15, 05:13 PM

"All Will Be Well" by The Gabe Dixon Band. I don't have the sheet music for it because it isn't free. :smallfrown:

I'll have it ready in about a week.

UserClone

2011-01-15, 05:19 PM

I'll have it ready in about a week.

You are a GOD! :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:

Thufir

2011-01-15, 09:37 PM

C3 is above C4, it goes from C8 (lowest) to C1 (Highest) IIRC.

Wikipedia says otherwise.

AsteriskAmp

2011-01-15, 09:53 PM

Wikipedia says otherwise.

You are right, I was in fact wrong, it goes from C0 to C10, with C0 being the lowest and C10 the highest.

Lady Moreta

2011-01-16, 03:10 AM

Consuming dairy products, especially ice cream or milk, right before a performance will cause there to be a lot of phlegm build-up and will make it more difficult to sing.

Yes. This. Chocolate is also bad.

Having said this, I have found that if my voice is going a bit or I've got a scratchy voice then a little bit of milk before singing will actually help smooth it out and I'll do better.

Which is why it's good to practice with :smallbiggrin: Also it's fun. >.>

That's very true. :smallsmile:

Fortunately my parents are both huge music fans and it was rare not to have some kind of music playing in our home. I think this helped me to develop a very good sense for melody and rythm from very early on, this should be extremely helpful for learning any kind of music.

Same here. We had a lot of music playing when I was younger. Plus I started learning various musical instruments from age - 6? yes 6. So I've had a lot of practice at reading music, playing to a rhythm etc. Apparently I used to make up my own harmonies when I was little and singing in the car to music that was too high for me.

Hopefully that'll stand me in good stead for the new song we learned at church today. The verses are low but the bridge is high :smallfrown: (well, high for an alto/me - but I don't have a very big range).

Fifty-Eyed Fred

2011-01-16, 10:02 AM

Looking at the chart, I'm a baritone whose range goes into tenor. That's not bad, I suppose.

Yora

2011-01-16, 01:32 PM

Nothing is really bad, it just depends on what things you want to say.

Tonal Architect

2011-01-16, 10:37 PM

This is a thread I've often thought of starting myself. :)

Anyways... I'm a tenor, my full voice ranging from F2 to E4, IIRC. I can do the guitar's E2, though it lacks depth; my voice lacks weight to it, overall, and even though I can sing high bass parts in a choir (and I actually prefer to; the choir parts that I was handed back when I sung tenor parts, were far from inspiring [btw, gotta love Bach, bass singing lead is totally cool]), I have a tenor's voice.

I'm also a self-taught metal singer, having learned how to sing in metal singer's mixed voice, and that's most of the singing I do now-a-days. I can't do "dirty", harsh vocals like those of Dio and Russel Allen, but I'm fine with high-pitched, "clear" singing. My neighbors not so much, as a matter-of-fact, and my friends often complain of earaches (not as in "Omg, dude, you suck", but as in Literal earaches, due to high volume output) when I start following an Iron Maiden song in the confines of a car with windows closed. :smallbiggrin:

I'm fine with singing most metal songs, although I can't follow Pain of Salvation's lead singer, nor can I do "scratchy" songs, so far. I'm not sure I want to, either; in the long run, most people who sang like that have tended to lose their voices. I recently went to a Scorpions concert (one of the last ones, IIRC), and by the gods, I left wondering where did that guy drop his voice... I'm not sure what my "high" range is, but I can't follow Daniel Gildenlow's high range.

Other than that, I can contribute the following to the topic, especially considering I was once in a choir where often singers would gloat about who had the lowest voice (none of us were true basses, btw, lol):

Don't overexert yourself in the lower range. That's where any excess will hurt the most. I've often been told that people with lower voice ranges are blessed, for you can work out a high range off of a lower voice, but a higher voice will never be able to work out a lower range. As far as I can tell, that has held true, so far.

Coidzor

2011-01-17, 12:45 AM

How does one determine vocal range anyway?

Tonal Architect

2011-01-17, 05:34 AM

Do you mean, actual range (as in the extension, measured in notes, that one's voice covers in the piano), or the voice type (tenor, soprano, etc)?

Coidzor

2011-01-17, 06:19 AM

Do you mean, actual range (as in the extension, measured in notes, that one's voice covers in the piano), or the voice type (tenor, soprano, etc)?

Actual range. I've been wondering about it for awhile, actually...

AsteriskAmp

2011-01-17, 06:28 AM

Actual range. I've been wondering about it for awhile, actually...

You have a Grand Piano behind you on your videos, you could just check.

Hazyshade

2011-01-20, 08:04 AM

Thufir, you may assume that your vocal range is disturbing :smalltongue:

There's a school of thought that a male is a counter-tenor when he sings in the alto range and a treble when he sings in the soprano range. Thus alto and soprano can be sung only by females. But I think calling everyone who sings alto an alto is the modern way. Our local all-male cathedral choir, just to be confusing, has altos and trebles.

My useful range: G below C below middle C, to B above middle C. Higher than that makes my throat die, so I'll never be a barbershop tenor, but I'm compensating by developing a bit of power in the "sensible" tenor range (F#- to A#-above-middle-C).

If the first piece of advice for a new singer is to join a choir, I think the second ought to be: if the other members of the choir tell you you're singing the wrong notes, or the right notes out of tune, assume that they're right, because they can hear you better than you can hear yourself.

Tonal Architect

2011-01-23, 10:47 PM

Actual range. I've been wondering about it for awhile, actually...

Well, let's assume your voice doesn't lean towards the higher or lower corners of the range spectrum (in case it does, just go an octave up or down, whichever way your voice goes), so, you should get hold of a piano or a computer program with piano keys (I played a lot with Aldo's Pianito back when it existed), and locate C above middle C (C2 [I think]; as said, go up or down an octave, if you don't feel confortable singing it). Get your voice to match that key. For the upper part of your voice, you should try to get your voice to "break", that is, continue singing higher until you can no longer keep your voice from breaking into falsetto, without straining, of course. I have trouble with not mixing my voice and actually getting it to break (yeah, ironic, considering how male singers begin), but I can do it with a little patience. I break around E3 (E above middle C).

On the lower part of your voice (you should keep in mind that straining here will actually cause more damage than straining in the upper part), try to keep yourself as relaxed as possible, and, from C above middle C, try going down the piano. Don't push yourself for volume, and relax as much as possible. Further down your range, you'll notice that you'll lose volume; this indicates that you approach the lower extremes of your voice. You should go as far as you can generate volume without straining. Once the volume dies, go up a key, and that's your low extreme.

You'll still have a few more keys to go down, but they won't be useful in acoustic singing, and you'll likely strain in them. I can produce a good F1, and go as far as B1, though lacking any volume.

I tried writing a general guide that would likely be useful to others, so I hope that helps.