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View Full Version : Miscellaneous Undead Questions, more fluff than mechanics (D&D)



Scalenex
2011-01-14, 10:03 AM
Zombies and Skeletons aren't really sentient. They are usually controlled by a spellcaster or working on programmed instructions. What force maintains these programmed instructions?

In most cases I get the impression vampires have the consciousness they had in life twisted by their hungers. Liches are similar, but they are probably closer to what they were in in life to vampires. In fact they are likely to continue scheming for arcane power much like the presumably did in life.

Ghosts seem to be very close to the original consciousness of the deceased. I read Wraith: the Oblivion, they have their original consciousness with their desires and passions intensified. I might even be inclined to give D&D ghosts a similar Shadow or the ability to draw strength from their passions.

Wights and ghouls and the like are tricky. They are fully sentient with decent intelligence scores and the like, they have languages, but they don't seem to act remotely like the living people they once were. Are they possessed by a foreign consciousness? Is a new consciousness born? Is the old consciousness still there, just unrecognizeably warped?

The base creature turned into an undead cannot be raised until the undead is destroyed. Does this mean the soul of the person is trapped there or can they still enjoy their afterlife even with the barrier to them resuming their old lives?

HunterOfJello
2011-01-14, 10:38 AM
Which game system are these questions directed at?

Scalenex
2011-01-14, 10:40 AM
Which game system are these questions directed at?

Sorry, I meant D&D, it's easy for me to forget that thisn't an exclusively D&D forum sometimes with how it's tied to a D&D parody.

Urpriest
2011-01-14, 10:46 AM
Zombies and Skeletons aren't really sentient. They are usually controlled by a spellcaster or working on programmed instructions. What force maintains these programmed instructions?

Magic, essentially. Well sort of. More to the point, nonsentient in D&D means either ruled by instinct (assassin vine) or capable of flawlessly remembering and carrying out instructions while having no interests of its own. The latter is the type of nonsentient that zombies and skeletons are. They remember their instructions flawlessly and carry them out, no force required.



Wights and ghouls and the like are tricky. They are fully sentient with decent intelligence scores and the like, they have languages, but they don't seem to act remotely like the living people they once were. Are they possessed by a foreign consciousness? Is a new consciousness born? Is the old consciousness still there, just unrecognizeably warped?

Probably the latter. Ghouls especially are generally implied to have some memory of their past life, but twisted. Also, remember that many who become ghouls were cannibals in life, so it's not like they're acting all that much differently. Otherwise it seems like a similar situation to vampires: an overarching concern (in the wight's case, the extinguishing of life, in the ghoul's hunger for flesh) overwhelms their former identity.


The base creature turned into an undead cannot be raised until the undead is destroyed. Does this mean the soul of the person is trapped there or can they still enjoy their afterlife even with the barrier to them resuming their old lives?

Generally speaking such souls don't go to the afterlife. This would seem a little odd for things like skeletons and zombies, which is one of the reasons I believe that the soul is involved even in nonsentient undead, which also explains why they're undead and not, say, golems.

Shpadoinkle
2011-01-14, 11:09 AM
Zombies and Skeletons aren't really sentient. They are usually controlled by a spellcaster or working on programmed instructions. What force maintains these programmed instructions?

Magic.


In most cases I get the impression vampires have the consciousness they had in life twisted by their hungers.

Agreed.


Liches are similar, but they are probably closer to what they were in in life to vampires. In fact they are likely to continue scheming for arcane power much like the presumably did in life.

Searching for arcane power is typically WHY wizards become liches. So they don't have to worry about getting old or distractions like eating or sleeping.


Ghosts seem to be very close to the original consciousness of the deceased. I read Wraith: the Oblivion, they have their original consciousness with their desires and passions intensified. I might even be inclined to give D&D ghosts a similar Shadow or the ability to draw strength from their passions.

Whatever floats your boat.

Personally, since ghosts are typically created by traumatic deaths, I always figured they were permanently stuck in a state of mental and emotional anguish and therefore tend to lash out and/or be unreasonable. I see ghosts that are created by the death of someone who has important unfinished business as tending to be more reasonable, or at least less violent, but still very much consumed with emotion, and they only exist because of these unresolved personal issues.


Wights and ghouls and the like are tricky. They are fully sentient with decent intelligence scores and the like, they have languages, but they don't seem to act remotely like the living people they once were. Are they possessed by a foreign consciousness? Is a new consciousness born? Is the old consciousness still there, just unrecognizeably warped?

Ghouls, like all undead, are 'powered' by negative energy, which has a corrupting influence on whatever remains of their minds. I don't see them so much as intelligent (at least not intelligent in the way normal people are) as cunning- they're ALWAYS hungry, and hunger does strange things to people's minds, causing them to mentally regress somewhat to a more primitive hunter state. I imagine if a ghoul ever got enough to eat to be sated, he'd immediately start hunting again because he knows he's going to be hungry again soon. But during this time you might be able to talk or reason with him (as long as you've got a solid stock food on hand to placate him for a little while.)

Wights are similar in that they possess a sort of hunter's cunning in lieu of 'real' intelligence, and they have the presence of mind to understand and follow plans, but they're quite happy to just be a roving gang of murderers as well. They don't 'eat' in the same way ghouls do, but draining the vitality of living people and creating more wights is still something that gives them some kind of satisfaction.


The base creature turned into an undead cannot be raised until the undead is destroyed. Does this mean the soul of the person is trapped there or can they still enjoy their afterlife even with the barrier to them resuming their old lives?

I always took it to mean that their souls are bound to the undead as a sort of glue, holding the husk together while negative energy actually provides power and the 'motivation' (if you could call it that) to get up and do whatever it is that particular breed of undead does instead of just laying in the dirt.

A few exceptions exist, though- liches and vampires come to mind. They retain a lot of their living minds and memories, but while the negative energy that powers them doesn't completely control their actions, it does taint their minds to the point that it changes their entire way of thinking.

Coidzor
2011-01-14, 12:21 PM
Zombies and Skeletons aren't really sentient. They are usually controlled by a spellcaster or working on programmed instructions. What force maintains these programmed instructions?

IIRC, it's sometimes mentioned somewhere that spirits of negative energy provide the animation for the skeleton.

I personally prefer Frank and K's interpretation that it's more like a magical computer program suite though.