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Gwillednt
2011-01-14, 12:41 PM
So in 3.5 my wizard just nabbed this feat.

With archmage, I know you can burn your specialization slots to fuel the powers, can I use a specialization slot to use this feat?

For those who don't know what it does, it basically allows a wizard to spontaneously cast once a day as a full round action, as long as they leave a spell slot open. If I'm reading it right, that means as long as it's my highest level spell slot (4th, currently) I can cast *any. spell. in. my. spellbook.* Although we're houseruling the spell needs to take a full round action or less (no free quickened summonings or ritualistic spells).

Elric VIII
2011-01-14, 01:11 PM
Any spell in your book seems to be the intent and that's how I've always played it. Also, consider Versitile Spellcaster along with this for even more hilarity.

Gwillednt
2011-01-14, 01:23 PM
Any spell in your book seems to be the intent and that's how I've always played it. Also, consider Versitile Spellcaster along with this for even more hilarity.

I'm confused, alacratous cogitation is once a day. Does this feat your recommending even have an effect at all because of that? Or does it really allow me infinite spontaneous casts by sacrificing prepared spells?

I'm not quite following the rule that would let me do that, it would seem I could sacrifice my alacratous cogitation slot, 1, to do nothing since I don't have any others. Even if I took alacratous cogitation again, it still wouldn't be very useful...

Elric VIII
2011-01-14, 02:12 PM
It allows you to sacrifice any 2 prepared spell slots to cast any spell you know spontaneously, it does not require the slot to be a spontaneous one. Alacritous Cogitation meets the prereq of being able to spontaneously cast spells.

EDIT: I'd run it by your DM first, but I believe it doesn't cause too many power issues. I've played a game where my DM allowed this and it mostly served to cast those spells that normally only get cast under limited circumstances.

Gwillednt
2011-01-14, 02:13 PM
It allows you to sacrifice any 2 prepared spell slots to cast any spell you know spontaneously, it does not require the slot to be a spontaneous one. Alacritous Cogitation meets the prereq of being able to spontaneously cast spells.

Hm, as long as the the spell i cast is no more than 1 level higher than the two I sacrificed, right?

2xMachina
2011-01-14, 02:15 PM
To be precise, IIRC, it's sacrifice 2 lvl x spells to cast 1 lvl x+1 spell. It's a good deal, getting more top lvl spells.

Gwillednt
2011-01-14, 02:17 PM
To be precise, IIRC, it's sacrifice 2 lvl x spells to cast 1 lvl x+1 spell. It's a good deal, getting more top lvl spells.

It's a downright RIDICULOUS deal for a wizard compared to a sorceror though. I have collegiate wizard, so I know at LEAST 8 spells per level of my not highest level, and at least 4 of the others...

Elric VIII
2011-01-14, 02:23 PM
Sorry about the confusions, I didn't mean any spell exactly. The way it's worded it can only cast a spell known of exactly one level higher, but you choose which slots to sacrifce, so you can get whatever you want.

Gwillednt
2011-01-14, 02:26 PM
Sorry about the confusions, I didn't mean any spell exactly. The way it's worded it can only cast a spell known of exactly one level higher, but you choose which slots to sacrifce, so you can get whatever you want.

Hehe, fair enough, but still, I mean, I'm only level 7 and that's basically um... what, at least 40 some spells I can choose from. XD.

Elric VIII
2011-01-14, 02:32 PM
Hehe, fair enough, but still, I mean, I'm only level 7 and that's basically um... what, at least 40 some spells I can choose from. XD.

I didn't say that it wasn't a bit cheesey, just not broken. As far as I can tell, it's always a trade off of endurance for power or versatility. Depending on the length of time between rests, the DM can keep you in check by making you think very hard if it's worth those 2 spells for one effect. Against one big boss, the answer is yes. Against wave-style mooks, it could be a hard choice.

Gwillednt
2011-01-14, 02:36 PM
I didn't say that it wasn't a bit cheesey, just not broken. As far as I can tell, it's always a trade off of endurance for power or versatility. Depending on the length of time between rests, the DM can keep you in check by making you think very hard if it's worth those 2 spells for one effect. Against one big boss, the answer is yes. Against wave-style mooks, it could be a hard choice.

True, although I'm less concerned with the Raw POWER of it and more with the raw versatility.

nedz
2011-01-14, 02:38 PM
It allows you to sacrifice any 2 prepared spell slots to cast any spell you know spontaneously, it does not require the slot to be a spontaneous one. Alacritous Cogitation meets the prereq of being able to spontaneously cast spells.

This would seem to open up Ultimate Magus for some double levelling. Obviously TO, but does this work ?

Elric VIII
2011-01-14, 02:38 PM
True, although I'm less concerned with the Raw POWER of it and more with the raw versatility.

Do you mean you think you will outshine your party or that you're not sure if that much choice isa good thing?

If your DM is ok with the idea, try suggesting toning it down by allowing you to choose a few spells/level that you can spontaneously cast with it.

EDIT:

This would seem to open up Ultimate Magus for some double levelling. Obviously TO, but does this work ?

Since you only have one spellcasting class, UM's abilities won't actually apply. You can't level up one class twice/level of UM, since although you have the ability to cast spontaneous spells, it is not a spontaneous casting class (the same way Cleric/Druid are still prepared casters).

Gwillednt
2011-01-14, 02:41 PM
Do you mean you think you will outshine your party or that you're not sure if that much choice isa good thing?

If your DM is ok with the idea, try suggesting toning it down by allowing you to choose a few spells/level that you can spontaneously cast with it.

The latter, we'll put it this way.
My build is Abrupt Jaunt Conjurer, going master specialist 10 so 3 free quickens a day. Also, after that, archmage to shape all my horrible fogs and death trap spells AoE, arcane reach, and why not elements to make all my orb of X spells do sonic damage and daze for free by modelling them after the orb of fire.

I'm wondering if adding versatile spellcasting just *might* be overkill.

Elric VIII
2011-01-14, 02:53 PM
The latter, we'll put it this way.
My build is Abrupt Jaunt Conjurer, going master specialist 10 so 3 free quickens a day. Also, after that, archmage to shape all my horrible fogs and death trap spells AoE, arcane reach, and why not elements to make all my orb of X spells do sonic damage and daze for free by modelling them after the orb of fire.

I'm wondering if adding versatile spellcasting just *might* be overkill.

It's your call as to whether it's too much. It seems that your DM allows you a fair amount of freedom in making powerful builds, so I will assume he's counting on you to self-limit. There's nothing wrong with taking this, or simply just having Alacritous Cogitation by itself. TBH, though, using conjuration well will net you the same versatility if you just use Planar Binding and summoning spells to get creatures with the abilities you want.

Based on the choice of Collegiate Wizard, you want utility. So this seemed like a natural follow up. Also, your trepidation makes me think that you won't be one to abuse this, so it may not even be a very noticabe power up to your current build.

Gwillednt
2011-01-14, 02:59 PM
It's your call as to whether it's too much. It seems that your DM allows you a fair amount of freedom in making powerful builds, so I will assume he's counting on you to self-limit. There's nothing wrong with taking this, or simply just having Alacritous Cogitation by itself. TBH, though, using conjuration well will net you the same versatility if you just use Planar Binding and summoning spells to get creatures with the abilities you want.

Based on the choice of Collegiate Wizard, you want utility. So this seemed like a natural follow up. Also, your trepidation makes me think that you won't be one to abuse this, so it may not even be a very noticabe power up to your current build.

True. Also, the summoning is not an issue, the world we are in is *completely* broken off from the outer planes. I have to use summon undead or summon natures ally, even celestial/fiendish creatures can't be brought in. (basically I cast "summon" and draw from the ally and undead lists, at very high levels I *May* be able to untie these bonds keeping us separated, but I doubt my character, though he's a rather brutal LN, would want to allow devils, much less demons, onto the plane that they can't touch)

Adumbration
2011-01-14, 04:21 PM
Looking at your feat choices so far, might I recommend Uncanny Forethought from Exemplars of Evil as a future feat? Very useful.

Gwillednt
2011-01-14, 05:34 PM
Looking at your feat choices so far, might I recommend Uncanny Forethought from Exemplars of Evil as a future feat? Very useful.

Haha I just read Uncanny Forethought, it kinda does everything way better than Alacratous Cogitation, doesn't it?

T.G. Oskar
2011-01-14, 05:47 PM
Looking at your feat choices so far, might I recommend Uncanny Forethought from Exemplars of Evil as a future feat? Very useful.

Useful, but it requires Spell Mastery, which means you have to delay it up until 15th level to use it (Spell Mastery, anyways; Uncanny Forethought is useful at any time).

A loss of caster level and the inability to cast spells unless you meet the actual caster level requirement can be a bit troublesome, though. Basically, if you want to cast a spell of N level, you need to have a caster level of 2N+1; not extremely hard to do, but still troublesome when you're basically reserving a 9th level spell to cast an 8th level spell (exactly what Wish does, except even better; you can do it earlier with Limited Wish, and even earlier with Mnemonic Enhancer. It only works well with spells that use Spell Mastery, and you need those spells to be useful in order to get the full benefit of this feat (instead of the most beneficial part of it).

Doesn't mean it's a bad trick, but it requires two feats in comparison to Alacritous Cogitation which requires only one, can be used with just about any spell you have on your spellbook(s), and without a loss in caster level, even if only 1/day. And I agree with combining both: very useful to have open spell slots to cast whichever spells you desire, with one of them being slightly more powerful than the rest.

FMArthur
2011-01-14, 05:58 PM
You can take Spell Mastery at first level, and just keep retraining it (or taking it over and over) to take it at a higher level every 3 levels. Or just take it at first, forget about those spells, and cast your Int mod in spells spontaneously as a full-round action each day, selected from your vast library at the time of casting. That alone is a grossly overpowered option truly worthy of the grossly overpowered Wizard class.

It's really astonishing how many options exist that instantly change a Wizard's whole game by themselves. When you put them together, even without any real synergy, they... well, a Wizard using the very simple, easy options of Abrupt Jaunt, Focused Specialist, Uncanny Forethought, Invisible Spell and some other tiny-investment-for-enormous-returns things is a disaster factory without even having to look at its spell selection.

Elric VIII
2011-01-14, 11:46 PM
You can take Spell Mastery at first level, and just keep retraining it (or taking it over and over) to take it at a higher level every 3 levels. Or just take it at first, forget about those spells, and cast your Int mod in spells spontaneously as a full-round action each day, selected from your vast library at the time of casting. That alone is a grossly overpowered option truly worthy of the grossly overpowered Wizard class.

It's really astonishing how many options exist that instantly change a Wizard's whole game by themselves. When you put them together, even without any real synergy, they... well, a Wizard using the very simple, easy options of Abrupt Jaunt, Focused Specialist, Uncanny Forethought, Invisible Spell and some other tiny-investment-for-enormous-returns things is a disaster factory without even having to look at its spell selection.

As far as I can tell, the amount of options, rather than simple raw power, is what makes the Wizard so good. Just on that note, since you are a Collegiate Wizard you have more spells known than the PHB, so you might find it beneficial to take a bunch of divination spells and the spontaneous diviner ACF from CChamp as an alternative to Alacritous Cogitation.