PDA

View Full Version : Gunmage Gestalt



JKTrickster
2011-01-14, 08:14 PM
Hey there Playground! Well I'm building a character for this game and it involves the Gunmage base class (http://files.meetup.com/47309/IK%20Gun%20Mage%20(as%20per%20character%20book).pd f) from the Iron Kingdom setting. This is a level 5 Gestalt with 32 Point Buy and I need to find a good class to supplement Gunmage 5. I'm thinking of going into Spellwarp Sniper afterwards on the Gunmage side.

But I don't know what to do with the other side of the Gestalt. I was perhaps thinking Rogue to deal with the prerequisites of Spellwarp Sniper.

On the other hand, I think a Swift Hunter build could also provide some useful benefits. A CC/Scout/Ranger with the Travel and Knowledge Devotion feats would be pretty strong complement would it not? Both this would make it extremely MAD though.

So please some help with this build?

Greenish
2011-01-14, 08:23 PM
I'd go with an initiator using Black Rain (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5471505). Any of them would improve one of your saves, you hit dice and your skillpoints, and maybe BAB too.

Crusader would offer Charisma synergy (cha to only weak save) and free action maneuver recovery. Limited control over maneuvers, though, and no access to Tiger Claw or Diamond Mind.

Warblade has hefty 1d12 hitdie and a decent selection of schools to pick from, along with a good maneuver recovery.

Swordsage wouldn't upgrade your BAB, but has the most skillpoints, schools available, as well as maneuvers known/readied. Worst maneuver recovery though.

But then, I'm a rabid ToB fanboy. :smallamused:

Bang!
2011-01-14, 08:39 PM
Cloistered Cleric has complementary saves, drastically improved skills, use for channeled touch spells, dramatically increased versatility and, through divine/domain feats, extra benefits for decent Charisma.

Just avoid learning too many Gunmage spells that grant saving throws.

edit: Or use that Dynamic Priest feat from Dragon mag that turns Cleric into a Charisma-based caster.

edit2: W/R/T OP, the Ranger idea isn't bad, but the Rogue would be pretty squishy with its low HD and two weak saves. Spellthief might be a better idea for increased Will (and the Master Spellthief feat could be kind of neat in gestalt - if it's allowed and depending on your group's interpretation).

kestrel404
2011-01-14, 09:21 PM
Artificer. By level 5 you get enchant arms and armor - which means you can enchant your gun(s). You can get a serious steampunk/wild west inventor feel going.

JKTrickster
2011-01-15, 12:37 PM
Would going Cloistered Cleric//Gunmage be a bad idea? Is it RAW legal to trade out the Knowledge Domain for Knowledge Devotion, then grab Knowledge Domain with another one of the domains?

I want to go Ranger mainly because it helps with feats and the like. It would open more choices for me. But I don't know how to get around the MAD issue.

Which book is Artificer from again?

If I don't go Rogue, how should I get the 1d6 Sneak Attack for Spellwarp Sniper?

Greenish
2011-01-15, 02:27 PM
Is it RAW legal to trade out the Knowledge Domain for Knowledge Devotion, then grab Knowledge Domain with another one of the domains?I don't think so, but you can grab some other domain to swap for Knowledge Devotion (CChamp lists Mind and Inquisition).


I want to go Ranger mainly because it helps with feats and the like. It would open more choices for me. But I don't know how to get around the MAD issue.Ranger doesn't get so many feats, all in all, though it gets some nifty spells (but you could ask your DM to slap some of them, like Arrowmind and Hunter's Eye on your Gunmage list). Hmm, a cloistered cleric with Divine Magician could also get some of them.


Which book is Artificer from again?ECS. It's probably the class that requires most system mastery to do well.

If I don't go Rogue, how should I get the 1d6 Sneak Attack for Spellwarp Sniper?Dip, or burn a few feats.

Cieyrin
2011-01-15, 03:00 PM
If I don't go Rogue, how should I get the 1d6 Sneak Attack for Spellwarp Sniper?

Definitely Spellthief for Master Spellthief. Stealing spells from other casters you shoot so you can put new spells into bullets is definitely a good method, as you don't have a hell of a lot of slots available to keep up your barrage, so taking slots from other people is just double plus good.

Also, how close to the rest of IK are you going, as there are other considerations if so, like acquiring magic equipment gets more complicated with the risks for casters permanently losing hit points, plus that IK has their own artificer for dealing with their own system, the arcane mechanik. It could be to your liking to dual class with arcane mechanik and go into warcaster from there.

kestrel404
2011-01-15, 04:33 PM
If I don't go Rogue, how should I get the 1d6 Sneak Attack for Spellwarp Sniper?

My preferred method of getting sneak attack without losing casting is Unseen Seer (from Complete Mage). It gives you extra sneak attack, skirmish or sudden strike damage, and you must choose one of those. If you've got one already, that is the one that is increased. If you don't have one of those, then you presumably get to choose. The requirements for the class are mostly skill based (Hide, Search and Spot at 8, Spellcraft and Sense Motive at 4), plus being able to cast 1st level spells including 2 divination spells (note: Read magic, Detect Magic and True strike are all excellent divination spells you can pick up at 1st level, and there's nothing preventing you from using cantrips to fulfill the requirements). To get into the class, you would probably want to choose a high skill class to gestalt with, one with both search and hide on the class list. Ranger fills all those criteria, and two levels of it will pretty much get you into the class (assuming they're at levels 1 and 5).

You can then take 2 levels of Unseen seer and use that to get you into spellwarp sniper (which, by the way, is also when you pick up the 3rd level spells you'll need to get into the class).

If you're seriously considdering ranger as a companion class, you may want to look at both Mystic Ranger (it's from a dragon magazine article, but you can find the details here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=16927678&postcount=52)) and Sword of the Arcane Order.

Greenish
2011-01-15, 04:39 PM
My preferred method of getting sneak attack without losing casting is Unseen Seer (from Complete Mage). It gives you extra sneak attack, skirmish or sudden strike damage, and you must choose one of those. If you've got one already, that is the one that is increased. If you don't have one of those, then you presumably get to choose.No, if you don't have SA or the like, you get no benefit from the advancement.

JKTrickster
2011-01-15, 07:36 PM
Hmm so I think Spellthief//Gunmage is the easiest way to get into Spellwarp Sniper. How should I deal with my stat disturbution in this case? And is Master Spellthief definitely needed?

Waker
2011-01-15, 07:52 PM
Master Spellthief is terribly handy in non-gestalt games, but in the case of this character is is less amazing. The only benefit you'd get (unless you threw more classes into the mix) is that when you steal a spell you don't have to worry about arcane spell failure if you cast it.
As something else pointed out, Artificer is another good class for this. You could try Gunmage 15/Spellwarp Sniper 5 on one side with Spellthief 5/Artificer 15 on the other side. Using Master Spellthief, you'd be able to steal any spell up to lvl 9, energy resistance and low level spell-like abilities (1/3 Spellthief levels), and because of Artificer you can make any magical item or break them down for building your own toys. You'd also have access to the highest level infusions.

Dead_Jester
2011-01-15, 08:21 PM
I agree with others, I'd go either full artificier if you aren't playing in the IK or AMk (Liber Mechanika if you can) and then into Warcaster (you only need 5 levels of it) if you are. Dip the spellthief and take spellwarp sniper on the remaining levels(you only need Gm to 16th level and AMk to 15 for max level spells, and you'll steal most of your actual spells anyways) And if you're in the Ik, don't forget to put the most ludicrous amount of barrels on your gun your Dm will allow. It will save your life.

Waker
2011-01-15, 08:39 PM
And if you're in the Ik, don't forget to put the most ludicrous amount of barrels on your gun your Dm will allow. It will save your life.
This particular line presented me with the mental image of a character wading into battle with a magelock minigun.

Dead_Jester
2011-01-15, 08:45 PM
This particular line presented me with the mental image of a character wading into battle with a magelock minigun.

Minigun? More like multi-barreled handheld artillery piece (hello magelock Ogrun Battlecannon) shouting lazorz.

JKTrickster
2011-01-16, 12:11 PM
So in general Artificer is what I should be going for, right? But I have extremely little experience in building this class before and it seems rather complicated. Do you have any advice?

Spellthief 1/Artificer 4 // Gunmage 5 going into Spellwarp Sniper on the Gunmage side seems good? Continue Artificer with Master Spellthief at 6th.

Human seems like a good race in general, but is there a dwarf variant that has a bonus to Cha?

Dead_Jester
2011-01-16, 01:00 PM
Human seems like a good race in general, but is there a dwarf variant that has a bonus to Cha?

Not that I know of.

As for Artificer and/or AMk, it's all about getting the most bang for your buck. You probably want to specialize in a role (buffing or nuking are the most common), and take feats that improve your ability at this role. As for actual builds, you might want to check out Ye Olde's Artificer Handbook (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872330/Artificer_Handbook_%28rough_draft%29) or A slightly newer Artificer Player's Guide (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5929.0). Feats that are always good include classics like extend, persist and twin spells, but the dual wand wielder is also pretty good (and stylish) for a gunslinger.

In a way, anything that applies to Arties applies to AMk, only they get the Wizard spell list to play with, and more customizable item creation rules if you are using mechanika (also, Steamjacks). They also get almost unlimited uses out of their wands (arcane turbines), and can use lower level slots to fuel the use of higher level spells in items.

Bang!
2011-01-16, 01:49 PM
Magic-Blooded (DR #306) Gold (DMG), Desert (UA) or Dream (RoS) Dwarf or M-B Korobokuru (OA)?

Cieyrin
2011-01-16, 03:01 PM
Minigun? More like multi-barreled handheld artillery piece (hello magelock Ogrun Battlecannon) shooting lazorz.

Definitely invest in Balanced Multibarreled (Liber Mechanika) magelocks over standard multibarrel, as it's more weight efficient for an easy extra skill check, especially since default IK doesn't have any extradimensional spaces of any kind :smallsigh:.

Also look into the Spellflower spell so you can load multiple touch/rays into your magelocks. You'll have to invest in either Extra Spell feat or a wand and UMDing it (hello there, Artificer/Arcane Mechanik :smallbiggrin:) but it's well worth the effort. Girallon's Blessing for loading more touch spells isn't a bad idea, either.

JKTrickster
2011-01-16, 04:29 PM
What books are Spellflower and Girallon's Blessing from? Do they allow me to cast more than one spell or something?

Cieyrin
2011-01-16, 05:21 PM
What books are Spellflower and Girallon's Blessing from? Do they allow me to cast more than one spell or something?

They're both from the Spell Compendium. Spell Flower lets you hold a touch spell for each hand, in most cases 2. If you haven't made it to your touch spell holding limit, you can hold and cast other spells without losing all your touch spells. Girallon's Blessing gives you another set of arms, so when combined with Spell Flower, gives you the ability to hold 4 different touch spells. Throw in Arms of Plenty (Lords of Madness) for another set of arms for 6 touch spell charges.

The only issue with Spell Flower is it's rounds/level, as is Arms of Plenty, so you probably want to either Extend or Persist Spell Flower (Arms of Plenty can't be Persisted and I think Girallon's Blessing provides enough touch spells for anybody, anyways). What this means is you can put multiple touch spells into bullets or multiple touchs and a ray for a multibarreled magelock. Lay waste to something or somebody, just make sure you hit so it's not a wasted volley.