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Shardan
2011-01-15, 12:45 PM
I've not played 3.5 so I don't really know what I need to aim for.

The basic idea I have now is

Human
Ranger
Starting feats
Sacred vow, vow of poverty, intuitive strike
lvl 2 go to fighter for lvls 2~5
lvl 6~16 Forsaker prestige class


The ranger for 1 is for a combination of skills and feats. (track, ambidexterity, and 2 weapon)

Beyond this, I really don't know what I should aim towards, especially feat wise.

I'd like some advice as well as wanting to know if this is just a silly idea or not.
Thanks.

Bang!
2011-01-15, 01:05 PM
It's a cool idea, but expect to play the Jimmy Olsen to the rest of the group's Justice League.

(I don't say this to stymie your idea; more to ground the expectations some people have when looking at VoP for the first time.)

Edit:
If you're looking for fitting options, the Karsite race (Tome of Magic) and the Defiant class (Planar Handbook) expand on the rejection of magic.

The Animal Devotion feat from Complete Champion deals with one of the biggest problems you'll probably face at higher levels (flight).

Artificer (Eberron) is another way to disenchant magic items, but it's also extremely reliant on magic gear (though not arcane or divine, so if you just want to reject one or both of those, it can work), so its applicability is kind of iffy.

Saint GoH
2011-01-15, 01:15 PM
Of note, many people here don't care much for the Vow of Poverty. I personally say it depends on your groups WBL and/or optimization. Usually most of the issues come from how grounded (literally) you are. No Belt of Battle for extra actions, no Winged Boots for flying, no Anklets of Translocation for short range movement. Your character will be really starved.

This of course can be remedied by having a wizard around, buuuuuuut, Forsaker doesn't allow spells to be cast on you (or by you for that matter) so suddenly Vow of Poverty has become seriously limiting.

If you are playing in a low wealth game, with tiers 3-4, this build is excellent. Might I suggest somehow trying to get Fist of the Forest (Complete Champion) in there for another Con to AC? Might help make you a better meat shield.

Forged Fury
2011-01-15, 01:27 PM
The ranger for 1 is for a combination of skills and feats. (track, ambidexterity, and 2 weapon)
Not that it matters all that much but:
a) Ambidexterity is gone, essentially rolled up into Two-Weapon Fighting
b) Ranger doesn't get Two-Weapon Fighting until Level 2

Shardan
2011-01-15, 06:35 PM
I don't know that this character or even the campaign will last all the way through 20. I doubt I'll even get to the end of the forsaker class.

Is the PoV really that bad?

Lateral
2011-01-15, 06:40 PM
No, it's not. Wealth-by-level far outclasses it, though. If you're playing a very low-items game, it can be worth it. Just expect to have trouble if your foes can fly.

Zaq
2011-01-15, 06:58 PM
Rangers don't really actually do much. They pretty much just attack, and not particularly well. I can understand trying to keep it simple for yourself if you're new to the game, but I warn you that it's very easy to get bored with a character like the one you're describing. Other people have already said what I would say about VoP, so I won't belabor the point.

I understand that you're new, but if you could try to describe what you want your character to do (crunch if you can, but fluff is important too), we can try to help make that happen in as relatively simple a manner as possible.

Shardan
2011-01-15, 07:34 PM
well, Ranger was purely for some skills, BAB +1 for lvl 1, track, and 2 weapon fighting.

as a PoV fighter Fluff wise I was going for a retired soldier/scout who long ago swore off the trappings of war. But dire times pressed him into service again. armed with cheap peasant gear (hunting knives, etc) and the shirt on his back he has to act as guide for the 'real' adventurers.

The basic plan is just to use ranger for 1 (or i guess 2 since they moved 2 weapon fighting to 2) then fighter for 4 lvls then forsaker.

He's going to be part meat shield and skill monkey (I don't think we'll have a rogue)
I was going to tank his Str and use Intuitive Strike to use the Wis for melee and be better set for skill monkey, etc.


As I said though, I'm noob to 3.5

Zaq
2011-01-15, 07:43 PM
I don't suppose that you have a list of approved (or banned) books, do you? Warblades, from Tome of Battle, are extremely newbie-friendly (in contrast, I would call fighters very newbie-unfriendly, since it's easy to screw yourself over with them) and fit your fluff perfectly. If they're allowed, then I would use them. They're available free from WotC online (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060802a&page=2) (their maneuvers are here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a)), so you don't need to have the book. If they're allowed, I (or someone else) can help you build one that fits your specifications.

As for Forsaker . . . how important is that to you? At the very least, you won't be able to get your damage reduction from it (because to do so you have to destroy magic items, and you can't have magic items to destroy without breaking VoP). I think it's a pretty bad class all around, but if it's crucial to your fluff, I guess we can try to work around it.

Urpriest
2011-01-15, 07:45 PM
Also, are you sure you're allowed to use Forsaker? Forsaker is from 3.0, and while technically unupdated 3.0 content is allowed in 3.5, many DMs would prefer you avoid it.

Greenish
2011-01-15, 07:55 PM
I was going to tank his Str and use Intuitive Strike to use the Wis for melee and be better set for skill monkey, etc.The problem here is that Intuitive Strike only applies your Wis to your attack roll, but Str (and thus potential Str penalty) still applies to the damage you'll deal.

Combine that with your limited selection of weapons and the fact that you're TWFing, you'll have serious troubles to deal any damage. The main sources of damage for most melee builds either are Str and Power Attack (feat) used with a two-handed weapon, or multiple attacks with a different bonus to them, such as rogue's sneak attack. On the lowest levels, weapon damage dice can also be a sizable factor.

Though if you don't need to be a credible threat in a battle, you should probably focus on the thing you want to do, instead of burning feats and class levels on a sideshow.

Shardan
2011-01-15, 08:52 PM
Thus far, I'm still not sure who else is in the party. I may just give up on this whole plan and try something else. The only character I know about is a sorceror. For the most part he wants us to stick with core races and I think core classes but he's much more open to the classes than the races.

Greenish
2011-01-15, 09:09 PM
Thus far, I'm still not sure who else is in the party. I may just give up on this whole plan and try something else. The only character I know about is a sorceror. For the most part he wants us to stick with core races and I think core classes but he's much more open to the classes than the races.Tome of Battle is an excellent source for melee, but tends to be a rather polarizing. You could ask about it, for it seems the simplest way to realize your concept with some real martial prowess, but I'm sure we can come up with other options.

nedz
2011-01-15, 09:21 PM
Wether Ranger is good or dull depends upon the game style.
If you get opportunities to use stealth then its an excellent choice, unfortunately in many games you don't.
Basically Rangers are very good scouts who are OK in combat.
Fighter has poor skills, and level 3 is pretty dead.
Stick to Ranger to keep your skills up, if there going to be relevant, and maybe dip fighter twice for feats if you need 'em.
Though for TWF to work you need to boost your damage output by several means.

Shardan
2011-01-16, 08:53 PM
Maybe I should just forgo this and go for a simple cleric.

Curmudgeon
2011-01-16, 10:39 PM
You might be able to pull this off, but you'd need to make some alterations to achieve your goal. 3-D mobility is an important consideration here. If you played a Tiefling, the combination of Fiendish Bloodline and Outsider Wings would give you nonmagical flight. Being an outsider would also make you an invalid target for spells that require the Humanoid type. (You could buy off the level adjustment for 3,000 XP at class level 3.)

Next I'd suggest getting hard to see, and that's a tough one without any magic. Ranger 17 would get you there (in natural terrain only) with Hide in Plain Sight, but a better bet is Forest Reeve 4 (Complete Champion, page 82) with Camouflage. If you can Hide pretty much all the time you can't be targeted by any spells.