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Hazzardevil
2011-01-15, 04:38 PM
For a Gestalt game I am planning on joining I want to try something new, something people don't often try, I have decided to try a twf battle caster,
On teh duskblade side I intend to go into daggerspell mage and be belker only better, on the other side I take the twf line and just take sword of the arcane order,

Problem is I am unsure what race and Prc's I should go into, I was thinking that going into swiftblade would help with all of the bonuses that come with using haste thanks to it, and since I can afford to lose some CL's I might as well use it.

So, any ideas on race, PrC's or feats?

Dusk Eclipse
2011-01-15, 04:48 PM
You will need somatic weaponry if you want to cast while wielding your two weapons; there are also some great ranger spells in the spell compendium; such as Bladestorm (level 3) make an attack to all enemies you threaten; foebane your weapon becomes +5 and bane against your favourite enemies.}

Humans is always great and lesser tielfing is quite good.

Also, are you aware that you can't have to prestige classes at the same time on gestalt.

Hazzardevil
2011-01-15, 04:52 PM
IS somatic hand gestures? I can't remember which is which with spell components.
I don't need to worry about making hand gestures when casting spells with daggerspell mage since if I have daggers in my hand I can still make teh gestures.

I might try tiefling actually since it gives a bonus to a useful stat a penalty to a dump and a bonus to something that will always help.
When do you reckon I should stop taking ranger levels for teh build?

Tvtyrant
2011-01-15, 04:58 PM
Well the Duskblade lets you cast with TWF later on by itself, the other one is either going to have to focus on none-somatic spells or get somatic-weapons. Somatic is the hand movements.

I would suggest not prcing out of Duskblade, as its already perfect for straight damage output in magi-melee. For the Mystic Ranger you could either drop it for a ToB class or have it multiclass as a Gish.

Dusk Eclipse
2011-01-15, 05:03 PM
Yes somatic are hand gestures; I didn't remember that feature of Daggerspell mage.

I really like levels of mystic ranger, with Sword of the Arcane order they are essentially the lighting warrior... yes THAT lightning warrior. You should also look into taking a level of Wizard, because by RAW SotAO doesn't let you scribes new spells in your spellbook; besides Wizards have some excellent ACF that work regardless of Wizard level (Abrupt Jaunt for example)

Hazzardevil
2011-01-15, 06:48 PM
So don't prestige out of duskblade, take a dip in wizard and If I am wrong about doing somantics with daggers I can always go with a mounted aproach and keep mobile picking off anything escaping or being weak enough to kill easily in a hit or 2, or better yet I can deliver spells in wildshape on horseback.
Inspired by a guy who decided to wildshape into a bear mounted on another bear summoning more bears.

Bang!
2011-01-15, 06:52 PM
What levels do you think this game will be played at?

Tvtyrant
2011-01-15, 08:17 PM
Mr. Bearsington is the prime example of why Druids>Everything else. Can other classes be more powerful? Yes. Can they ride a bear as a bear while throwing miniature bears at people that return to normal size? No. No they cannot.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-01-15, 08:25 PM
You're using two full BAB classes, which is not a good idea. For what you want to do, you would be better off as a Mystic Ranger//Wizard, or even a Fighter//Wizard if the Ranger skill points aren't crucial. Better spellcasting makes for a stronger character, especially in this case since there's not even any drawback because you won't lose BAB or HD. Ranger is a better overall class than Fighter due to its skills and spells, but in a gestalt game taken with a spellcasting class Fighter makes for a much better combatant. You'll be able to get (Greater) Weapon Specialization, Melee Weapon Mastery, and eventually even Weapon Supremacy from PH2. Warblade would be an even better alternative, you would still have the same feat options and your maneuvers and stances would give you even more options in combat. In any case you should trade Ride for Tumble as a class skill (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a), and there would be no reason to not use the Armored Mage ACF in CM.

Daggerspell Mage is a spectacular class, but you need at least 1d6 Sneak Attack to take it. I'd recommend a single level in Invisible Blade if you can meet the skill rank prerequisites. Depending on how you're dealing with level adjustments, it could be worth using Marrulurk in Sandstorm (3 HD of Outsider, +1 LA, racial 2d6 sneak attack and death attack plus more) or a Dark Creeper in Fiend Folio (+4 LA, racial 2d6 sneak attack and blindsight plus more) for your race to meet the sneak attack prerequisite.

Dead_Jester
2011-01-15, 08:31 PM
You can definitely afford losing caster levels in mystic ranger, as the spell progression slows down to a crawl at higher level. Also, consider taking Sword of the Arcane Order for a more versatile spell choice.

Dusk Eclipse
2011-01-15, 09:17 PM
Biffoniacus_Furiou: -Marrulurk are Monstrous Humanoids not outsiders; besides I know of the game Hazzardevil is trying to join, it is a pbp and we still don't have DM nor big 16 yet:smallredface:

Hazzardevil
2011-01-16, 06:22 AM
I could try going into a half casting divine PrC on teh ranger side,
I was thinking of trying dread necromancer and be an anti hero that heals himself an infinite amount and be badass with dual weilding.
I have just checked daggerspell mage and it says that I can do somantics with daggers, Also when somethign says you need sneak attack to get into a PrC does it specifically have to be sneak attack or can it be something like skirmish or sudden strike?

Doing this means I have a guy who can keep fighting for hours on and on, and can always flank opponents thanks to an ACL and just be a general badass.

Coidzor
2011-01-16, 07:07 AM
So don't prestige out of duskblade

Well, the main draw is level 13 full attack arcane channelling, as far as I can tell, so yeah.


take a dip in wizard
Only if you 1. want the ACF and bonus feat or 2. your DM rules in such a way. There's a number of things about Mystic Ranger that aren't made clear in the class write up that have to be fixed with Rule 0 anyway, such as how the caster level works.

Since Mystic Ranger stops getting new spells (just additional slots) at level 10, having levels such as Master of Many Forms or Nature's Warrior or Warshaper would be something to consider as well, and would give good synergy between full attack channeling and lots and lots of natural attacks. At lest it seemed like you were interested in shapeshifting.

Alternatively, the Eilservs School feat is good with TWF, getting a bonus to attack and damage depending upon the charges left in a magic staff and allowing one to activate a staff on either one's self or one's enemy upon hitting them with both ends. Becomes even better with the ability to recharge staves.

gbprime
2011-01-16, 08:49 AM
To get arcane channeling once a round you just need level 3 Duskblade. And honestly, if you have 2 casting classes in there, you have the spell slots to burn for Arcane Strike instead.

As for TWF, go with a staff. Don't have to worry about having a free hand, and you open up the Eilserv School style (hit em twice, activate a charge in the staff as a free action).

So... Mystic Ranger / Swiftblade on one side, Elf Generalist Domain Wizard on the other. Arcane Strike, Eilserv SChool style, perhaps Knowledge Devotion.

dextercorvia
2011-01-16, 08:51 AM
What about a Duskblade//Wizard?

Int synergy. Wraithstrike from level 3. You can eventually Full Attack Channel any Wizard spell. Martial Wizard from UA lets you take fighter feats, like TWF instead of scribe scroll/metamagic. If you take one level of something like Master Specialist, then your wizard bonus feats will hit at ECL 6/11/16, just like the Ranger Combat style and you can take ITWF, GTWF as soon as you are eligible. This will leave your other feats free for the Duskblade staples Power Attack, Knowledge Devotion, and Arcane Strike. (And Obtain Familiar if you traded it out for Abrupt Jaunt -- If you go conjuror, do this. Althought conjuration doesn't have the best touch spells, so I wouldn't Focus.) If you TWF with Glaive/Armor Spikes or Unarmed Strike, you can don't need Somatic Weaponry, and you get reach.

The main problem with a TWF gish is that, RAW, Arcane Strike only applies to one weapon.

Duskblade13/AbjurantChampion5/Duskblade+2//Wizard3/MasterSpecialist1/Wizard+12/Fullcasting PrC+4

Hazzardevil
2011-01-16, 12:34 PM
to me after level 13 duskblade isn't worth taking more levels in, so I could probably take daggerspell mage before and after so I can do a somantic and vocal all the time easily.
But now that I look at it apart from badass factor it doesn't seem that good.
Especially with the requirements.

I could at 2nd level take a level in wizard for some useful abilitys and be able to add spells to my book without help.
I do have a question though.
Do I need a wizard level to add a spell to the back?
Also would I be able to get a wizard or an archivist to scribe the appropriate spell into my book?

I have found 2 PrC's that seem quite useful, Nar demonbinder and Dracolyte.
Dracolyte has averadge BaB and has a few useful abilities such as giving you a dragon to look after and help in combat and at level 10 in it you can summon a dragon once per day.
And I get a free domain and darkvision, alertness and immunities to a few things.

dextercorvia
2011-01-16, 05:07 PM
Duskblade 15 isn't bad. You get the free quicken.

I'm not sure what you are asking about the rest. Duskblade doesn't have a spellbook. You can't share spells known among your classes, and, while someone else could add a spell to your spellbook, they would charge you to do so at least what you would normally pay to do it yourself, and you still wouldn't know the spell unless you attuned to your own spellbook.

Hazzardevil
2011-01-17, 04:36 PM
Well a fellow party member, Probably wouldn't charge me.
Presuming an archivist is in the party He could add spells he has on te wizard list to my book.

dextercorvia
2011-01-17, 09:47 PM
Scribing a spell into the book (except the free ones at level up) costs 100gp/spell level, no matter who does it. You can't avoid that cost. Even if they are spells the other party member gets for free, it will cost the 100gp/spell level to make an additional copy of them.

Also, Sword of the Arcane Order lets you prepare wizard spells -- these spells are (usually) arcane. Even if the Archivist knows a spell that is on the Wizard list, it is a Divine spell for him. You can't prepare those -- unless they are Ranger spells.

Hazzardevil
2011-01-20, 04:00 PM
What I was asking was if there was an archivist in the party that knew fireball (1st arcane spell I could think of) Could then scribe that spell into my book since I think if I do it I have to make a skill check.

dextercorvia
2011-01-20, 07:13 PM
Someone else can write in your book. I'm not sure about the Archivist/SotAO crossover, divine and arcane are different.

However you would still have to make the skill check in order to prepare it. (It would be like preparing from a borrowed spellbook.) The check DC is the same to learn/scribe it as it is to prep from a borrowed book, (15+Spell Level), but you only make the learning check once. The borrow check happens every time you prepare the spell.

A sixth level ranger with cross class Spellcraft and a 14 int, taking ten, should hit a 16. Your archivist friend can Aid Another for another +2. That is a consistent check of 18, or 3rd level spells. At 7th it hits a 19 for 4th level spells and will go up at a rate of 1/2 levels which is about how fast you will acquire spells until 10th.

Coidzor
2011-01-21, 03:45 AM
Check out complete arcane's section on spell books, that should help shed some light on the issue, or at least provide some ideas for workarounds.