AC Duelist~Monk

[Tvtyrant]

I was thinking about the MADness that is the monk, and I think there could possibly be a use for it. Using the alternate class feature: Cobra Style the monk can easily meet the pre-reqs for Duelist by level 8. Why would you want to play a monk, the worst class in core 3.5, and then switch over to Duelist, the worst core Prc?

Its essentially because of the ability to take stat scores and transform them into AC. A Monk has both Dex to AC and Wis to AC, which can be fairly easily made into two 18s. This grants to an 18 in AC, which isn't particularly good, but by having a high Int score you can raise this as a Duelist to around 22 with a headband of intellect for 36,000 (assuming you put an extra point in int). Then a natural armor amulet gets you 27, and a bracer of armor eventually gets you to 35. A Continuous Shield of Faith gets you up to 37-40 depending on costs.

So now there is a Monk/Duelist that has the ability to frequently avoid getting hit by high level creatures, and the cost is below WBL. However at this point the question comes up of what in gods name is the Monk-Duelist going to do with its free time? Well, it comes down to the ability of the Duelist to use "Precise Strike." Precise Strike will net an extra 1d6 on every attack at level 13, and it moves up to 2d6 at level 18. Nothing compared to a sneak attack, but as a monk you get a number of extra attacks (5 attacks at level 18, when you get 2d6) and these always work as long as you only use your main hand (which is the only one you can flurry with anyway).

So by using a Siangham you get 15d6 damage a round, compared to 10d6 on a normal level 18 monk, it has a higher to hit (and uses a weapon that can be upgraded more cheaply), higher AC, better initiative and it can still use monk abilities since it doesn't wear armor or use a shield.

Granted, its not a great class option, its still weak. But its better then the monk.

[Greenish]

Pure monk 18 with Imp. Natural Attack gets 3d8 per hit.

A warforged one with battlefist (hey, easy to enchant) gets 4d8. Also cheaper AC, easier time vs DR, probably has more Str (due lesser MAD).

[Hawk7915]

You can do one better by taking Kung Fu Genius or Carmendine Monk and 3 levels of Swashbuckler. Now you're only duo-ability dependent: you get dex + double int to AC, use Dex for attack, and add Int to damage. A start of Cobra Style Monk 2/Swashbuckler 5 lets you enter one level early and get every required feat as a bonus feat, freeing you up to take the aforementioned feat alongside, I don't know, Combat Expertise. Then at high levels, you can make your AC even crazier: you can fight defensively for -4 attack, +13 AC (+15 with Einhander), and you can add Combat Expertise onto that for another -5, +5.

If you add on Deadly Defense, Einhander, and Elusive Target (easy to qualify for) you can have a very high defense build that pulls some cool tricks.

Of course, if material outside the SRD is available to you, it begs the question of why not use Factocum or Swashbuckler/Rogue (with Daring Outlaw) or Warblade for this sort of build, but meh, details. It is cool to be able to get all the feats you need for both Duelist and all the nifty defensive combat feats from just 3 class levels; even a Fighter can't offer that sort of efficiency.

[Zaq]

We're starting with 18 DEX, 18 WIS, and "high" INT? I assume we have 8s everywhere else, yes? Yeah, I have to say I'm not terribly impressed. I suppose that if you lost a bet and had to play a core-only Monk/Duelist, this is about the angle from which you should approach it, but still.

[Tvtyrant]

We're starting with 18 DEX, 18 WIS, and "high" INT? I assume we have 8s everywhere else, yes? Yeah, I have to say I'm not terribly impressed. I suppose that if you lost a bet and had to play a core-only Monk/Duelist, this is about the angle from which you should approach it, but still.

Its a 32 point build. The int doesn't have to be high, int items are cheap and you wouldn't start getting the bonus until level 9 at the earliest. That's pretty standard where I am from. And when I mentioned core the implication I was trying (and failing) to make is that none-core would be off limits in that case. Otherwise I would play a Swordsage :P

Basically within the SRD only this was about the best I could do with Monk and have it actually be a Monk rather than something else with a 2-3 level Monk dip.

[Greenish]

Basically within the SRD only this was about the best I could do with Monk and have it actually be a Monk rather than something else with a 2-3 level Monk dip.Fist of Zuoken (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/psionicFist.htm) is SRD.

[FMArthur]

Its a 32 point build. The int doesn't have to be high, int items are cheap and you wouldn't start getting the bonus until level 9 at the earliest. That's pretty standard where I am from. And when I mentioned core the implication I was trying (and failing) to make is that none-core would be off limits in that case. Otherwise I would play a Swordsage :P

Basically within the SRD only this was about the best I could do with Monk and have it actually be a Monk rather than something else with a 2-3 level Monk dip.

32 point buy is exactly enough for two 18s and four 8s. So you start with an Int penalty. I thought somewhere in your OP you said something about making MAD an actual advantage? You've only multiplied your disadvantage so far. And your high AC still means little to monsters with ridiculous numbers of hit dice and ridiculous Strength scores.

The damage you're talking about doesn't even bear mentioning - doing twice that would be beyond embarrassing at those levels, and it would be agony to actually optimize that particular build to the point where every attack hits, which is the improbable system by which you came to your damage calculation.

I don't really see where you're going with this idea and frankly, with the feat investment and awful returns out of Duelist, it would be very difficult to build a straight-classed Monk who didn't outperform it.

[Tvtyrant]

Alrighty then. Class dismissed (pun intended).