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DragonSinged
2011-01-17, 03:35 AM
So yeah. I'm currently getting into a game of Exalted with some friends of mine, playing around a table, and I've rolled up a female character, mid-twenties, who is supposed to be both beautiful and manipulative.

I'm having some difficulties getting into character. I don't want this character to just be a big joke or anything, but this is definitely a challenge for me. Usually, when I make a new character, that characters personality is largely based off of some part of my own personality; my first character, a dragonborn paladin, I could get into character with based off my desire to generally do the "right" thing; my next, a roman knight, was centered around the desire to perform as duty directed him to; a beguiler I played liked to have fun, and do "good" while maintaining his reputation that said otherwise; half-dragon wizard let me just be crotchety and point out when other people were being stupid.

This character, though, I haven't really been able to put a part of my personality into, and I think it's the gender thing that is the majority of the problem.

Has anyone else run into this? And I mean in an 'around the table' type of situation. Over the interwebs, I can take the time to think about things, and make the appropriate response. In person is a bit different.

So yeah, have you run into this? And if so, how did you deal with it / was there something that you found helped?

Xefas
2011-01-17, 03:40 AM
This character, though, I haven't really been able to put a part of my personality into, and I think it's the gender thing that is the majority of the problem.

Are you sure it's the gender? I think answering that for certain would be the first step on the road to "dealing with it".

For instance, if you woke up tomorrow with boobs and decidedly less phallus than when you went to sleep, would you be a fundamentally different person, personality-wise?

If you answered that question with "No, I'd just be a normal person that happened to have female genitalia" then you've discovered the first and only secret of successfully playing an opposite-gender character without it being a joke.

DragonSinged
2011-01-17, 03:52 AM
I suppose maybe I haven't given enough details? I mean, the problem I'm encountering isn't making this character unplayable. And no, I'm not the type of dude who is all, "Hey, I'm playing a hot chick? Ok, Storyteller! I need to sleep with all the other hot chicks, now!"
I guess the main problem I'm running into is making this character believable, without weirding out the other players.

I've played one sort of half-session/intro-session sort of thing so far, and, yes, mainly when I had to say something in character, I spoke as if it were just, well, me speaking. (Sorry if that sentence is a little unclear.)

But.. I don't know. The words I'm using, the phrases and whatnot, just.. don't sound like what I picture my character sounding like. Now, of course there's not going to be a perfect solution here - it's always going to be a masculine voice quoting the words that the sultry lady is speaking (and I have a fairly deep voice, at that), so there's not much I can do there.
But.. Yeah. It could be something that will just sort itself out as time goes on, and I'm sure a few sessions in things will run a bit smoother.

But again, has anyone else actually run into this before? Was there anything you did to make things easier for yourself and the other players/ST?

EDIT: And hey! With that post, I am officially a "Halfling in the Playground"!

Xefas
2011-01-17, 04:24 AM
But again, has anyone else actually run into this before? Was there anything you did to make things easier for yourself and the other players/ST?

Ah, okay. Your additional information is, indeed, illuminating. I've run into this problem indirectly, having GM'd for someone with a similar issue. What we discovered, and how we resolved it is simply thus:

The act of "Roleplaying", in theory, is one person acting out the role of a fictional individual. That fictional individual may be as similar or as different to its controller as the "player" can conceive of. In a "Roleplaying Game", we have multiple people acting out the parts of multiple individuals, and together they tell a fictional story from the perspective of those individuals. That is the theory.

In practice, however, you are a grown man acting 'sultry' towards another grown man whom you are sitting across from. Possibly in a poorly lit room surrounded by other grown men.

In an ideal world, all involved could be completely passive about this and no one would bat an eye. It's fiction, of course. But we don't live in an ideal world. Of course it's going to be awkward. And therein lies the solution. If you're going to play a female character, don't hit on the GM. Yes, you're technically hitting on "the fictional individual he's portraying". In practice, once again, you're hitting on the GM.

FerhagoRosewood
2011-01-17, 05:06 AM
Only when she was charmed by an Incubus and slowly being drained of life force.

...Yeah.

a_humble_lich
2011-01-17, 05:18 AM
Also, there is a big difference between playing a character who happens to be female and one whose femininity is an important part of the character (or masculinity for a female player). The first is easy. The second is a lot harder and sounds more like what you are trying to do. Besides possible issues of flirting with other players/the DM (which can be awkward even if you're off appropriate genders), it can be hard to play such a character without reverting to stereotypes.

KillianHawkeye
2011-01-17, 07:12 AM
If you're going to play a female character, don't hit on the GM. Yes, you're technically hitting on "the fictional individual he's portraying". In practice, once again, you're hitting on the GM.

I don't see a meaningful difference between playing a female character hitting on a male NPC and playing a normal male character hitting on a female NPC. This really has less to do with what gender your character is and more to do with what you and your group members are comfortable roleplaying out. I also don't think that that's what the issue is here.

Whenever you're trying to get into the mindset of a character who is fairly dissimilar from yourself (whether it's because of gender or some other reason), I like to find music which relates to the character and listen to it before a session. Make up a playlist that forms the emotional building blocks of the character. That way listening to the music becomes sort of like listening to your character's story. I used to do that all the time and it worked out pretty well for me.

rakkoon
2011-01-17, 07:17 AM
We had a session where the DM's switched. So instead of flirting with a male DM who was fabulous at portraying female characters, I was flirting with a male lecherous DM who never shaved or bathed. That was a problem.
If you just flirt less your (fictional) bits should not be a problem

Ragitsu
2011-01-17, 07:18 AM
Unless you're worried about straying from a safe stereotype, why would you have any?

Cespenar
2011-01-17, 08:50 AM
Most characters are already very different from the people that plays them. Adding that one more angle (the gender) shouldn't make much of a difference.

BayardSPSR
2011-01-17, 09:34 AM
I'm expecting a similar problem to crop up soon in a game I'm running. I'm not exactly experienced. I have a group of four guys, and in six sessions there has been exactly one female NPC (who they didn't talk to). Current plans require three (named and important) to show up at different times in the near future, and I'm not quite sure how to handle it. To dissuade flirting, one will be a lesbian pirate captain (which actually makes sense with the character concept, I swear!) who will castrate any of them who try to. One of them will be one of the PCs' cousin, as well as suffering from a terrible crush on another NPC. The third will be the first they run into, and I have no idea what to do with her.

Grumman
2011-01-17, 09:57 AM
To dissuade flirting, one will be a lesbian pirate captain (which actually makes sense with the character concept, I swear!) who will castrate any of them who try to. One of them will be one of the PCs' cousin, as well as suffering from a terrible crush on another NPC. The third will be the first they run into, and I have no idea what to do with her.
A simple "Thanks, but no thanks" mindset should suffice, shouldn't it?

BayardSPSR
2011-01-17, 10:05 AM
A simple "Thanks, but no thanks" mindset should suffice, shouldn't it?

:smallredface: I don't know. Should it? Like I said, I've never RP'ed a female NPC before, and I've heard frightening rumors about what players like to do... And one of my players has already suggested a brothel visit. I don't know whether he was joking.

Yeah, I'm paranoid about this. :smallredface: But only because I don't know what to do.


(Though I'm actually liking the way the lesbian pirate captain's coming together. Honest.)

Titanium Fox
2011-01-17, 10:36 AM
I've had issues playing a female character, but honestly, it had nothing to do with getting in character.

The other players in the campaign (playing males, of course) continually attempted to IC rape my character. It was cute the first couple of times, especially considering the offender was... I think a 9 int fighter. I mean the first time with his alignment and intelligence it was in character. Then the wizard joined in. I know it was OOC trolling, but it ruined the campaign a little bit for me.

I turned her into a blighter, and when she went to burn the forest, pissed off like three Orcworts. She died. I re-rolled a male. :smalltongue:

KillianHawkeye
2011-01-17, 10:46 AM
I've had issues playing a female character, but honestly, it had nothing to do with getting in character.

The other players in the campaign (playing males, of course) continually attempted to IC rape my character. It was cute the first couple of times, especially considering the offender was... I think a 9 int fighter. I mean the first time with his alignment and intelligence it was in character. Then the wizard joined in. I know it was OOC trolling, but it ruined the campaign a little bit for me.

Man, I would NOT have put up with that crap. There would have been swearing at the table on that day. :smallmad:

Titanium Fox
2011-01-17, 10:54 AM
Yeah. The wizard left the college and the fighter was his brother. So I mean it's a non-issue at this point. Just if I ever played with them again, I would pull them aside before hand.

They argued that cause my female druid had 18 charisma, it was all looks, and no other skills (verbal wit, commanding voice, etc.) I told them BS, but... Meh.

KillianHawkeye
2011-01-17, 10:55 AM
They argued that cause my female druid had 18 charisma, it was all looks, and no other skills (verbal wit, commanding voice, etc.) I told them BS, but... Meh.

So in other words, you were asking for it? :smallconfused:

I don't get it. How is that an argument?

Titanium Fox
2011-01-17, 10:57 AM
It really wasn't at all. They were trying to justify going about it and failing miserably. I wish the DM had looked at them and gone "Heh. You're chaotic evil now!"

Grumman
2011-01-17, 11:09 AM
I wish the DM had looked at them and gone "Heh. You're chaotic evil now!"
No, the correct DM response is "Get the **** out of my game!"

Urpriest
2011-01-17, 11:18 AM
To the OP:

In some ways, your issue is just that you're playing a character who's very different from you. This can be refreshing at times, but it's also challenging.

Here's the thing: while you don't have much in common with this character, you've doubtlessly read stories of similar characters. So think about what sort of story you want to tell with this character. What is her background? Where is she going in life? What does she want, both blatantly and secretly?

The one time I played a female character she was a halfling mercenary in Warhammer. It was a one-shot with semi-randomly rolled characters, and I ended up deciding she was female halfway through because it fit better with the story I wanted to tell. She had run away from her stodgy and conservative halfling community to become a mercenary, but on some level she still missed the traditions of her home, so after saving a halfling village on pie day (a major Warhammer halfling festival) she ended up requesting to help with the baking.

One thing that might be making it tricky for your character is that for a manipulative type most of the time you're posing as someone rather than actually being someone. Try to think a little bit about the person behind the mask. Is she nervous sometimes? Overconfident? Bored with her ability to control people, or is it still a challenge?

Fastmover
2011-01-17, 11:58 AM
So in other words, you were asking for it? :smallconfused:



LOL that is exactly what my Femanist Girlfriend says all the time to people argueing female rape victims. Sigh... she is so cute when she starts to take that feminist anger out on me...

I think all the players in my gaming group have all played female chars, besides me, and sometimes prefer it. Sometimes they do a really good job, other times one or two of them seem only play the extremes of the female gender without a real normal moment, the stereotypical extremes that is... though... It could also be due to their lack of actual experience with them...

Charisma is not a dump stat IRL.

Callista
2011-01-17, 12:09 PM
Not too many issues, no; but I've never been too strongly feminine. I'm kind of the nerdy version of a tomboy, so it's easier for me, I think.

I find that playing a non-human or at least culturally exotic character will smooth over any cross-gender RP!fail by allowing people to put down the unavoidable feminine traits to being a different race. My last male character was a kobold in a D&D game, and was often referred to as simply a kobold rather than by his gender. It didn't hurt that I played him more like a teenage boy than like a grown man; he was a cleric of Bahamut and an absolute dragon fanboy.

Coidzor
2011-01-17, 12:23 PM
The other players in my group won't let me. :/ No idea why, it's not like I've done it before and been horrible or anything.

Actually, come to think of it, I think that might just be a blanket rule against guys playing girl characters. But not the other way around.

RndmNumGen
2011-01-17, 12:52 PM
who is supposed to be both beautiful and manipulative.

[...]

Usually, when I make a new character, that characters personality is largely based off of some part of my own personality


Is part of your personality manipulative as well? Are you part "Lady-killer"? Are you confident in your appearance(not OMYGAWDIMGORGEOUS, but at least you don't consider yourself unattractive)?

If so, then there really shouldn't be that big of a problem here. You just need to think about what it's like on the other side(not that difficult). It might take a while to get used to, but it shouldn't be a huge problem.

On the other hand, if your personality does not have any of those elements, there is your problem right there. You're trying to roleplay a character nothing like you. If this is the case, conflicts are more likely to stem from personality issues then gender issues.

Ernir
2011-01-17, 01:08 PM
I find it much easier to RP characters that aren't like me at all.

YMMV.

Grey Paladin
2011-01-17, 01:15 PM
When playing something utterly unlike yourself I find it better to narrate the character and his or her actions, rather than speaking and talking in first person - much like you would in a book. I think it also creates a more descriptive picture for the rest of the group and forces you to consider how your character appears to the rest of the world, which makes a richer game in general. The downside is that it takes longer and you might have trouble getting 'in character' in the sense of identification if you are unused to it.

Combat Reflexes
2011-01-17, 01:18 PM
I don't RP my characters to their gender, but to their race/class - both manipulative bastard, loyal warrior, bookish wizard, annoying gnome. Not that they aren't different, but more that they behave more or less the same.

If you RP females completely differently than males, you are putting too much accent on their gender instead of their background, class, race, beliefs, alignment, personal code, attitude etc. There are a thousand things that can define how you RP your character.

And if you really dislike playing a female, go get yourself a Gender Bender Belt:smallamused:
Warning: DM may freakout when used on NPCs once or twice. Per minute.

TheWhisper
2011-01-17, 01:30 PM
I don't generally allow players to play characters of the opposite gender.

I find that roleplaying a character is generally a daunting challenge in an of itself to the average participant. If all their effort is used up in the mere act of roleplaying their demographic, there's none with which to create a unique character.

Ernir
2011-01-17, 01:34 PM
I don't generally allow players to play characters of the opposite gender.

Woah. People let you get away with that? :smalleek:

Grey Paladin
2011-01-17, 01:37 PM
Gender is but another quality, not any more significant than personality, profession, age, or race.

I find it extremely odd that people will constantly play creatures of an alien psychology with little bother, but cannot play a slightly different member of their own specie.

Yes, gender is important. Men and women are different. No, they are not so different that its harder to play than, say, a warrior, a wizard, or an elf. In fact people of the opposite gender are much closer to you than any of the previously mentioned concepts. If a dwarf is closer to you than a woman (or, respectively, a man) then something's wrong in the picture.

Tengu_temp
2011-01-17, 01:45 PM
I don't generally allow players to play characters of the opposite gender.

I find that roleplaying a character is generally a daunting challenge in an of itself to the average participant. If all their effort is used up in the mere act of roleplaying their demographic, there's none with which to create a unique character.

Time to play with more RP-oriented people, maybe?

TheWhisper
2011-01-17, 01:56 PM
Woah. People let you get away with that? :smalleek:

Absolutely.

One character per player.
No characters of dissimilar gender.
No characters of species that do not share your basic physical form or psychological makeup (nothing so alien you can't act it).
No metagaming.
No out of character table chat.

Sound unusual? Draconian, even?

People are usually surprised at how rapidly that they start really acting under those conditions, and how rapidly it becomes fun.

I couple a high degree of commitment to running a tight ship with a high degree of commitment to player enjoyment.

Yora
2011-01-17, 01:59 PM
Have you ever had difficulties playing a character of the opposite gender?
No, I havn't.

Not being allowed to play a character of a different gender would get me into a big argument with the gm and could quite possibly be a reason not to join the group. I might not even want to play such a character in the game, but not being allowed to is so sexist, that I probably wouldn't want to play in that group anyway.

Ajadea
2011-01-17, 02:17 PM
I rarely make male characters, but I don't have trouble playing them when I do make them. This may be because I DM a lot, and considering I have had to believably roleplay a mind flayer...

Well, roleplaying a dwarf guy is a lot easier than that.

Telasi
2011-01-17, 02:17 PM
I've found that I need to focus on personality over anything else when RPing any character. Gender is largely secondary, in my experience; it's a physical attribute that has only minor effects on the character's personality.

That said, it's not always easy to crossplay. Depending on your group, you may have to put up with quite a bit of mockery for a little while, and the first time somebody gets the bright idea to hit on you IC is awkward. If your group is relatively mature, though, they'll get used to it and so will you, most likely. Remember, 35% of RPG players play characters of genders other than their own. It's not bad, and it's not just you.

TheWhisper
2011-01-17, 02:19 PM
Not being allowed to play a character of a different gender would get me into a big argument with the gm and could quite possibly be a reason not to join the group. I might not even want to play such a character in the game, but not being allowed to is so sexist

That is a politically charged accusation.

You do not know me.

Would you care to withdraw it?

Grumman
2011-01-17, 02:30 PM
Sound unusual? Draconian, even?
Yes! Gender is not a barrier to good roleplay unless you're trying to play some kind of stereotype instead of a character.

The best character I've played was a female. The fact that she was a woman was far less important than that magic had left its mark on her, or that she had very particular ideas about those who would enslave the innocent.

Urpriest
2011-01-17, 02:39 PM
I've found that I need to focus on personality over anything else when RPing any character. Gender is largely secondary, in my experience; it's a physical attribute that has only minor effects on the character's personality.

That said, it's not always easy to crossplay. Depending on your group, you may have to put up with quite a bit of mockery for a little while, and the first time somebody gets the bright idea to hit on you IC is awkward. If your group is relatively mature, though, they'll get used to it and so will you, most likely. Remember, 35% of RPG players play characters of genders other than their own. It's not bad, and it's not just you.

Well for the OP's character gender isn't particularly secondary. Being a manipulative seductress means knowing how to act within and use cultural expectations of gender behavior.

As for that 35% statistic, where did you get that? Not questioning it, I'm interested in seeing how much sociological work has been done to study the gamer community.


That is a politically charged accusation.

You do not know me.

Would you care to withdraw it?

Political? Wouldn't have taken you for the "The Personal Is Political" type.

WarKitty
2011-01-17, 02:45 PM
Oddly, I actually discovered that I roleplay a much better male charmer than a female charmer. My female characters get accused of being the stereotypical seductress, while my male characters are fairly well accepted.

So "No crossgender characters" doesn't always work that well. :smalltongue:

Telasi
2011-01-17, 03:00 PM
Well for the OP's character gender isn't particularly secondary. Being a manipulative seductress means knowing how to act within and use cultural expectations of gender behavior.

As for that 35% statistic, where did you get that? Not questioning it, I'm interested in seeing how much sociological work has been done to study the gamer community.



Political? Wouldn't have taken you for the "The Personal Is Political" type.

It was in a psychology study I read about how people use RPGs to explore social and philosophical issues. It's been a while since I read it, and I've forgotten the name. sorry.

kamikasei
2011-01-17, 04:11 PM
So yeah. I'm currently getting into a game of Exalted with some friends of mine, playing around a table, and I've rolled up a female character, mid-twenties, who is supposed to be both beautiful and manipulative.
Have you played socially-focused characters before? Since I think Urpriest has a good point with:

Well for the OP's character gender isn't particularly secondary. Being a manipulative seductress means knowing how to act within and use cultural expectations of gender behavior.


This character, though, I haven't really been able to put a part of my personality into, and I think it's the gender thing that is the majority of the problem.
Well, can you give more detail? What made you want to play the character? Would a tweak bring her more in line with your own personality at least enough to give you a hook?

If the problem is essentially with wearing an unfamiliar persona, a little research might be helpful. There are resources out there discussing the difference in male and female modes of speech, and of course there are any number of guides on manipulation and influence. Try a few of them on for size.

That is a politically charged accusation.

You do not know me.
You restrict players from certain actions based on their sex. That's sexist pretty much by definition. No one has to "know you" (to what, perform some sort of moral audit of your entire character and determine that you are, in sum, A SexistTM?) to see that or point it out.

Ragitsu
2011-01-17, 04:15 PM
Okay guys, I may not agree with TheWhisper's limitations, but if the group is having fun, and otherwise accepting/tolerant of others in reality, I don't have a problem with the situation.

Tengu_temp
2011-01-17, 04:21 PM
People are usually surprised at how rapidly that they start really acting under those conditions, and how rapidly it becomes fun.

I don't see how any of those conditions improve roleplaying, maybe apart from the "no weird races" thing. If someone is a good roleplayer, they will stay a good roleplayer anyway, and if someone is a bad one then they won't suddenly improve no matter how many arbitrary rules you heap on their heads.

Many people are better at roleplaying characters of the opposite gender and, more importantly, enjoy playing characters of the opposite gender more. Why limit them?

Oracle_Hunter
2011-01-17, 04:29 PM
In re OP
It gets better with practice :smallsmile:

ANECDOTE
I usually DM, and for a long time my worlds were mostly male-dominated. I have female NPCs - many of whom were in positions of power - but most "important" NPCs I made were male. All of my PCs to that point were male as well.

Eventually, I played a game of Bliss Stage in which a Male Player RPed one of my (female) love interests. After the game was over, I looked at my reactions and realized I was having a hard time dealing with the gender issues involved. So I decided to work on it. I then ran a Bliss Stage game in which I played - among other things - a female love interest for a male Player (with a male Pilot). It went poorly.

Soon, I was joining a D&D4 Eberron campaign and came up with a Half-Elven Barbarian that - in my minds eye - was female. Since I was mentally stuck on the concept, I rolled her up and began thinking hard about how she RP'd. It turned out to be a pretty character-centric campaign and - in time - I was able to think about how she felt about various portions of her life from a female perspective. I probably didn't make many decisions based on her gender but there were a few and soon I was able to have her stick in my head in a way that felt "right."

Later still, I ran a third Bliss Stage game in which the awkward relationship between my female NPC and a male Pilot (with male Player) became a major focus of the game. The female Player at the table thought the relationship was very realistically portrayed and - since she was dating the male Player - I figure her judgment must be pretty good :smalltongue:
IMHO, this sort of RP is most hampered by paranoia: being male, am I really thinking as a woman would in this situation? Or am I just using stereotypes? The truth is that this sort of thinking is unhelpful to RPing any character - are you really playing an Elf or just what you think an Elf would do?

That said, this sort of discussion is fraught with politics. If you have a female friend who RPs, it might be good to play female characters in games with her and ask her - privately - what she thinks. At least she can give you a shrug and a "sounds reasonable" and help you become more confident in your character.

WarKitty
2011-01-17, 04:45 PM
IMHO, this sort of RP is most hampered by paranoia: being male, am I really thinking as a woman would in this situation? Or am I just using stereotypes? The truth is that this sort of thinking is unhelpful to RPing any character - are you really playing an Elf or just what you think an Elf would do?

That said, this sort of discussion is fraught with politics. If you have a female friend who RPs, it might be good to play female characters in games with her and ask her - privately - what she thinks. At least she can give you a shrug and a "sounds reasonable" and help you become more confident in your character.

It sort of helps that there is no such thing as a "real elf." Therefore, elves behave however I think they behave. There is such a thing as a real man/woman, however.

Of course, this whole discussion also gets complicated by those of us whose commonly read gender and internal sense of gender don't entirely match.

Regarding the OP:
There's really only one gender-specific thing that I'd worry about in this situation. That is, in most classical societies, you should not directly state your interests, at least not to a male of equal or greater social standing. Flirt, tease, and hint, but never outright state that you want something from someone you're manipulating. You've been taught not to be too "forward." Of course, I am also presuming this is a neutral to evil character here.

It can also help to think of some women you've known, and base parts of the personality on them. Or on fictional characters.

Ragitsu
2011-01-17, 04:48 PM
Ironically, in the attempt to try and roleplay another gender as impartially as possible, stereotypes still get used in some form.

Coidzor
2011-01-17, 04:49 PM
It sort of helps that there is no such thing as a "real elf." Therefore, elves behave however I think they behave.

True, though dangerous at times.

Mando Knight
2011-01-17, 04:49 PM
In re OP
It gets better with practice :smallsmile:
Something like this.

It also helps if you don't subscribe to the notion that female minds are necessarily unknowable alien entities.

Ragitsu
2011-01-17, 04:53 PM
female minds are necessarily unknowable alien entities.

http://www.deviantart.com/download/115683969/Fractal_Queen_by_ValentinaKallias.jpg

kamikasei
2011-01-17, 04:55 PM
It sort of helps that there is no such thing as a "real elf." Therefore, elves behave however I think they behave. There is such a thing as a real man/woman, however.
In fact, there are about three billion of each. Which can make it problematic to say that someone isn't playing like a "real" man or woman.

On the one hand, it behooves anyone playing outside their own experience to bear in mind ways that their character's experience would have differed from their own, and how that might have shaped them. On the other hand, you don't want to fall in to the trap of treating each gender as a single, homogenous mass.

Vulaas
2011-01-17, 05:01 PM
I honestly find it easier, simply because there are less female heroic characters in popular literature, and as such I find it a lot easier to make them stand apart from the archetypes presented.

Granted, I know it is easy to reverse most archetypes, it just happens that sex and gender are two of the ones I find easier to change.

Oracle_Hunter
2011-01-17, 05:01 PM
It sort of helps that there is no such thing as a "real elf." Therefore, elves behave however I think they behave. There is such a thing as a real man/woman, however.
Well, yes and no :smalltongue:

There are real women, of course, but is there such a thing as the real woman? In much the same way as it can get a little silly dwelling on how Elves would react to a situation, you can overthink how Women would react.

Side-track
IMHO, there is some psychological distinction between genders - either natural or socially induced. If I didn't believe this, then the question of "what would a woman do?" in a given situation is academic - she would react however your characters (sans gender) would react. Now, as I believe this, I simply need to figure out what that distinction is - insofar as it affects my RP.

Practice with female characters helped me focus on what those distinctions were. While feedback from actual women is helpful, it bears mentioning that this is the feedback of women from their own perspective of their gender and not some reflection of the universal Woman Mind :smallwink:

And, of course, the social aspect of gender will vary with the society; playing a woman in Gondor can be as challenging (RP-wise) as playing a man in Themyscira.

DeltaEmil
2011-01-17, 05:49 PM
Here in the Internet, every man is a man. Every woman is a man. And every child under 12 years is a federal agent.

Gnoman
2011-01-17, 05:58 PM
I've never had trouble, and as a DM I have to roleplay all manner of beings. A virtual tabletop does help a lot, though. Ut i sharder at an actual table.

Knaight
2011-01-17, 06:06 PM
I mostly GM, and as such am accustomed to playing all sorts of characters, this transfers to playing as well. Gender has never presented an issue, its something that subconsciously registers and might have cultural implications in a setting, not something that I use as a guiding point on all actions. "How would a woman react in this situation?" is largely an irrelevant question, one with about 3.5 billion different answers, minimum, just from real life. Its the character that is important, and unless gender is extremely important to the character in and of itself (which it might be in the OP's case), it shouldn't pose a problem. Now, drastically different life philosophies, motivations, or religious beliefs can make life difficult.

Mando Knight
2011-01-17, 06:20 PM
Every woman is a man.

Except those who have chosen the former answer to "Tits or GTFO." They have a slightly higher chance of being women. :smalltongue:

DeltaEmil
2011-01-17, 06:27 PM
Except those who have chosen the former answer to "Tits or GTFO." They have a slightly higher chance of being women. :smalltongue:
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTNu62eD3aIGeri6gguf0fwOgx2kQE1U alDfDRtcN9U8vlkvPsH http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS9CF2U3ti7NwJOFeBD5xyBpRwcw4XTv o6_WVkzFskD8D9o5igaVQAre you so sure you want to see them? And do you really dare to tell them to see that?

Yrcrazypa
2011-01-17, 06:50 PM
While I don't play an actual Pen and Paper D&D game, I do play on a Persistent World server on Neverwinter Nights 2, but most of my characters that get used most are female. Of course, none of them are really anywhere near "normal," so that helps, but I don't really think of them as any different than a male character would be. They all have their vulnerabilities in their personality, just like I give my male characters. Maybe they aren't as good at hiding them, but maybe they are.

I can see how it's harder on an actual tabletop, since if you are playing that seductress character, you actually have to say, or act out what you're doing to their faces, which is a lot different than doing the same online, but like a lot of others have said, practice will make it a lot easier. I know for a fact that when I first started with my female characters, I played them poorly, but after playing them for so long, and getting to "know" them better, it has gotten a lot easier. Their personalities are what matter, not what body parts they were born with. If they are adventurers of some sort, they are going to be different from "normal" women to begin with.

DragonSinged
2011-01-18, 03:27 AM
Sorry for the delayed response, busy day.

So I see a lot of opinions here, and it seems like most people agree with the whole, "Give it some time" camp, which I guess I myself agree with, and which probably would have been my own response.

A few more details: The GM is male, one of the players (aside from myself) is male (playing a male), and the other two players are female (playing females): My lady and the other player's lady.

I was thinking of perhaps just drawing a picture of my character's face on a piece of paper to hold up while I'm talking, and see if that helps without being too silly.

I have put a lot of thought into my character's backstory, but perhaps I haven't thought enough about her motivations now that she has exalted... She used to be a slave, so now that she's got some power, she... well, she wants more power, and some possessions, and maybe a manse or two, and... Ok, she's probably a bit greedy. Well, that's something for me to think about, and is off topic, anyways.


A few people suggest that she shouldn't behave any differently than a male character I'm playing would, and I disagree with this point. It could be that this is my first game of Exalted, and I'm used to D&D. If it were D&D, I would definitely find it not much more difficult to play, say, a female wizard as opposed to a male wizard; I think this is because the class you choose in D&D can define a large part of your character's personality. With Exalted, I haven't really found that the castes really define much about your character, and it's more about your character's personality and desires.
Also, the group I'm playing with are fairly social, so that sways things a bit, too.

As to her alignment: Well, it's Exalted, and she's a Solar. Those of you who know what that means, know what that means. Those of you who don't.. I suppose she'll have her moments of gloriousness, and her moments of despicability. She doesn't much care about the problems of mortals, so at the moment she's probably leaning more towards the dark side of the spectrum, but we'll see how that changes through the game.

As to those people calling TheWhisper sexist: While I disagree with his rules (obviously), I don't think he's necessarily being sexist. If he said that the ladies can play male characters, but the dudes can't play ladies, that would be sexist. Saying that males must play males and females must play females seems more just.. stupidly rigid to me. But then, to argue against myself, I guess there are men who think of themselves as women and women who think of themselves as men, so it all gets muddled all over again. NEVER MIND. :smalltongue:

Anyways, all these responses are awesome, and I think I'm going to go read over them again and maybe try a few of the ideas (such as the developing a soundtrack for the character one).

Feel free to keep discussing! (Not that you needed my permission)

AslanCross
2011-01-18, 03:51 AM
I've played a character with no technical gender (a warforged, though the personality was male) and a female human artificer. Had no problems.

As a DM I've also had to RP female NPCs, so I think it's fine. I tend not to draw too much of a difference. (Note: I have both male and female players)

Callista
2011-01-18, 08:22 AM
I'm going to guess that the DMs who ban cross-gender RP have often had problems with people who are using it as an excuse to make trouble--you know, like the Drow (http://www.goblinscomic.com/08192005/) in Goblins... in that case it's quite understandable.

panaikhan
2011-01-18, 08:39 AM
At some point in my long long career of RPing, I have played four gender possibilities (male, female, neither, both) and like to think I do a reasonable job of it.
I have, however, seen appalling RP from people playing a gender other than their own, and can understand why people don't like it / ban it outright.
My thought on the matter is; gender does constitute a fair-sized chunk towards how a character behaves, or how 'society' percieves they should behave.
Stereotypes both help and hinder in this perception. The mindset "If you can't be yourself, be believable" has to draw on stereotypes, just to fulfil the criteria.

Callista
2011-01-18, 08:58 AM
Ooh... a non-gendered character... I have to try that now. :smallcool:

How did it work out for you?

Coidzor
2011-01-18, 09:08 AM
Ooh... a non-gendered character... I have to try that now. :smallcool:

How did it work out for you?

Warforged, Exiled Modrons in 3.X. Warforged and sapient crystal formations in 4e.

And that's all I can think of in regards to D&D offhand as far as ready to go options.

Oracle_Hunter
2011-01-18, 10:49 AM
Warforged, Exiled Modrons in 3.X. Warforged and sapient crystal formations in 4e.

And that's all I can think of in regards to D&D offhand as far as ready to go options.
Deva (4e) really shouldn't, since they're an ageless (i.e. Immortal) race that reincarnates.

And in my game, they don't :smallbiggrin:

panaikhan
2011-01-19, 08:16 AM
I have played Warforged as both genderless (for that character, under gender, I wrote "chair") and multi-gendered (a mix of male and female traits)

For genderless, I take it to mean that the average humanoid wouldn't be able to tell (the physiological and socialogical differences are simply too alien to them), or it would make no difference one way or the other to the creature's actions / interactions.

Constructs are a good example, as are oozes, but ultimately anything sentient with free will could 'adopt' a gender if it so wanted to.

Dust
2011-01-19, 01:14 PM
I play predominantly male characters despite being female. I suspect this stems subconsciously from my very first character ever, who was a whiny 15-year-old Kennedy who ended up getting pushed around by the party leader, a loudmouthed womanizing sort. I ended up playing a male in the next game just so we'd be able to go eye-to-eye regarding IC disputes, and it worked staggeringly well.

Point is, I suspect the gender doesn't matter that much - what matters is how the other players respond to that gender.

WarKitty
2011-01-19, 04:51 PM
Heh. I tried playing a practical courtesan charmer type once. Got one seduction scene in the whole game. That character is forever known as "the slut."

Of course, we've been having great fun in our current game with an amazon barbarian type that doesn't think men ought to be in the middle of things.

panaikhan
2011-01-20, 08:05 AM
It's good to have IC reasons for turning normal social stigmas on their heads.
I loved it when the Drow Cleric in one party I was in, ordered the male human Ranger to 'do her laundry'.

Psyren
2011-01-20, 11:03 AM
Constructs are a good example, as are oozes, but ultimately anything sentient with free will could 'adopt' a gender if it so wanted to.

Changelings can also change gender at will or even be genderless. Reality Seekers opt for the latter, while Becomers opt for the former. Passers tend to pick one and stick with it.



I loved it when the Drow Cleric in one party I was in, ordered the male human Ranger to 'do her laundry'.

Bonus points if he had been a Githzerai instead

Coidzor
2011-01-20, 11:19 AM
I suspect this stems subconsciously from my very first character ever, who was a whiny 15-year-old Kennedy who ended up getting pushed around by the party leader, a loudmouthed womanizing sort.

:smallconfused: Which Kennedy was supposed to be whiny? Ted?

And how on earth does one represent one of the Kennedy family in an RPG anyway?

WarKitty
2011-01-20, 01:21 PM
It's good to have IC reasons for turning normal social stigmas on their heads.
I loved it when the Drow Cleric in one party I was in, ordered the male human Ranger to 'do her laundry'.

Oh yeah we had a fun one. We were trying to explain the Artifacts of Plot to the new character, an amazon barbarian. Somewhere midway through we heard the line:

"And a man told you this?" with a look of utter disbelief.

Scarlet-Devil
2011-01-20, 01:27 PM
I tend to play a lot of opposite gender characters, but there's never been any special difficulty because I just play them as 'this character, but female', and the rest of my group hasn't created any awkward situations for me yet, so yeah.

Mando Knight
2011-01-20, 04:04 PM
And how on earth does one represent one of the Kennedy family in an RPG anyway?
I dunno, but JFK was a pretty good zombie hunter...