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SurlySeraph
2011-03-15, 12:41 PM
Guys! I need something to reinvigorate my appreciation for Exalted!

What do you want to see in the setting that it doesn't have? Homebrew that. What does it have that you dislike? Think up something better.


The problem is finding someone who plays the systems I like that aren't Exalted or M&M. They tend to be so obscure and I can't find a recruiting game for any of them.

Try a new system? Try a new site with a wider variety of PbP games, because there are a fair number of PbP sites out there?

Tavar
2011-03-15, 03:00 PM
So, I know there's some big difference between Terrestrial/Celestial Gods and some difference between 1s/2nd/3rd circle demons. Is it a mechanically clear line? Like, Essence X? Or is it more vague?

Yuki Akuma
2011-03-15, 03:28 PM
It's more vague. First-circle demons tend not to go much higher than Essence 3, second-circle souls tend not to go higher than 5 or 6, and third-circle souls tend to be around 8 or 9. 10 if it's a fetich.

Terrestrial and Celestial are not measures of power - a Terrestrial god could have an Essence of 10, if his domain were suitably huge. A Celestial God can easily have an Essence of 1 if he's a very minor functionary.

Lochar
2011-03-15, 03:30 PM
Terrestrial gods also tend to be gods of actual physical things. Celestial gods tend to have sway over the idea or ephemeral.

Xefas
2011-03-15, 03:38 PM
The problem is finding someone who plays the systems I like that aren't Exalted or M&M. They tend to be so obscure and I can't find a recruiting game for any of them.

Would "In a Wicked Age" be one of them? I've been interested in this recently, as I think it'd be able to play in the Exalted setting without any homebrewing required.

The only problem being that its primary mechanic is largely incompatible with Play-by-Post (though it might be doable with agreeable folk). An IM or IRC game might work, though.

Kyeudo
2011-03-15, 05:03 PM
Hasn't Lytek been in the setting for a long time? And isn't he pretty unobtrusive? I mean, I can kinda understand not liking the Daystar stuff, as it really changes a lot in the setting, even if I like it. But to me, Lytek's always seemed pretty tame/integral.

Lytek always seems to violate one of the basic principles of Exalted - that no one can stop an Exaltation from finding a host. The whole nonsense of Lytek having a cabinet where all Exaltations come back to and just sit and wait until Lytek cleans the memories off them and then gets an Incarnae to rubber stamp a form before he lets them back out bugs me. WHY DIDN'T THE PRIMORDIALS JUST ORDER LYTEK TO NOT LET THE EXALTATIONS OUT OF THEIR BOX? Instantaneous end to all endlessly reincarnating Exalted.

Now, I don't mind that there is a God of Exaltation. I don't mind if that god has some influence on the when, who, and how of Exaltation. What I mind is that Exaltation can be stopped if a single pencil-pushing bureaucrat decides to lock a single door. Exaltation is supposed to be a wild card, an uncontrollable, unpredictable factor that upsets the order of Creation just by its very nature.

The Rose Dragon
2011-03-15, 05:08 PM
For one thing, Lytek wasn't around in the Time of Glory. There was another god who had the duties of handling Exaltations in the first years of the War, who was murdered by the Primordials. It didn't help their side any. For another, Lytek cannot control Exaltations. At best, what he does with them can be explained as a negotiation. The Exaltation waits, because it trusts Lytek to do his job right. For a third thing, Primordials cannot order gods to stop doing their jobs. Keeping the cycle of Exaltation intact is Lytek's job, therefore he cannot be told to stop it.

Tavar
2011-03-15, 05:11 PM
Also, in the fluff, I thought it was Autochthon who did that. After the war, Lytek took over, as it wasn't considered as vital a duty.

TheCountAlucard
2011-03-15, 05:12 PM
The whole nonsense of Lytek having a cabinet where all Exaltations come back to and just sit and wait until Lytek cleans the memories off them and then gets an Incarnae to rubber stamp a form before he lets them back out bugs me.To my understanding, he actually can't hold them there; he just cleans the past memories off of them as best as he can and makes sure there's nothing glaringly-wrong with them before it has a chance to flit to a proper host.


WHY DIDN'T THE PRIMORDIALS JUST ORDER LYTEK TO NOT LET THE EXALTATIONS OUT OF THEIR BOX?To be fair, wasn't Lytek appointed after the Primordial War?

EDIT: Double-Sidereal'd! :smalleek:

Indon
2011-03-15, 05:25 PM
So, I know there's some big difference between Terrestrial/Celestial Gods and some difference between 1s/2nd/3rd circle demons. Is it a mechanically clear line? Like, Essence X? Or is it more vague?

Terrestrial/Celestial diety is about where you work - a God with a job or office in Heaven is Celestial. What dictates who has an office in Heaven (some gods have offices in heaven that they never use), is all politics. Generally, though, Celestial gods are more powerful as well as better connected.

There are also rogue deities that work in the Underworld who do not fit into this schema.


Lytek always seems to violate one of the basic principles of Exalted - that no one can stop an Exaltation from finding a host. The whole nonsense of Lytek having a cabinet where all Exaltations come back to and just sit and wait until Lytek cleans the memories off them and then gets an Incarnae to rubber stamp a form before he lets them back out bugs me. WHY DIDN'T THE PRIMORDIALS JUST ORDER LYTEK TO NOT LET THE EXALTATIONS OUT OF THEIR BOX? Instantaneous end to all endlessly reincarnating Exalted.
Firstly, the Primordials aren't very smart. Secondly, the Exaltations don't need Lytek to perform this function.

Consider that Abyssal exaltations without their Monstrances will function more like Solar exaltations, for instance - and it's not mentioned that Lytek ever gets them in that case. If Lytek tries to contain an Exaltation indefinitely (as opposed to merely the higher soul of an Exalt, which he does illegally have a couple of, which is an interesting plot point vis-a-vis extra potential Deathlords but I digress), it probably fails.

Yuki Akuma
2011-03-15, 06:06 PM
Exaltations don't instantly go from one host to another - they spend a bit of time without a host. They just happen to spend that time in Lytek's office while he performs routine maintainence.

They're programmed to go there. Abyssal and Infernal Exaltations aren't - because it'd be pretty stupid if you could simply destroy the Montrances of Celestial Portion/the Phylactery-Womb and Lytek automatically got his hands on your warped Exaltations.

Also, nitpick: Primordials are very smart. They're just incapable of thinking outside their themes.

The Rose Dragon
2011-03-15, 06:10 PM
Also, nitpick: Primordials are very smart. They're just incapable of thinking outside their themes.

Technically, they can spend Willpower to get a Virtue in dice for a single action, but they are not likely to do it, since that requires recognizing their themes aren't all that is necessary.

Rikandur Azebol
2011-03-15, 06:11 PM
We are talking Yozi's here, they have "built" in "limiters", by victorious Solars.

And yes, from what I read about Lytek he can't hold Exaltations for long, merely for checkup and to illegally download memories. Most likely he would be unable to do much with Abyssal and/or Infernal Exaltations. He's just a technician, not engineer.

Yuki Akuma
2011-03-15, 06:15 PM
No, Primordials are exactly the same. They embody their themes so completely that they have to spend willpower to act outside of them, and have trouble even conceptualising anything outside of them.

Also it has been explicitly stated that Lytek could fix a Green Sun Prince exaltation easily enough, and Abyssal exaltations are easier to fix.

Heck, Solar artifact makers worked out Abyssal exaltations before the Neverborn did.

Lochar
2011-03-15, 06:18 PM
Also it has been explicitly stated that Lytek coulod fix a Green Sun Prince exaltation easily enough, and Abyssal exaltations are easier to fix.

Yeah, it just requires the death of the GSP. Abyssals not so much, but they still require free will to do so.


Heck, Solar artifact makers worked out Abyssal exaltations before the Neverborn did.

Where's this one at?

Yuki Akuma
2011-03-15, 06:19 PM
Yeah, it just requires the death of the GSP. Abyssals not so much, but they still require free will to do so.


Where's this one at?

See, there's this mirror that can flip a Solar's exaltation over to Abyssal...

I have no idea what book it's in.

Tavar
2011-03-15, 06:20 PM
And yes, from what I read about Lytek he can't hold Exaltations for long, merely for checkup and to illegally download memories. Most likely he would be unable to do much with Abyssal and/or Infernal Exaltations. He's just a technician, not engineer.

Canon wise, he can 'fix' an infernal exaltation, because that exaltation was changed by essentially gluing things to a solar shard. Abyssals are more difficult, because the shard themselves has been changed in some way; for that you need the abyssal, The Unconquered Sun, or Autochthon to actually fix them. Coincidentally, Abyssals are the ones who actually need to be fixed.

Yuki Akuma
2011-03-15, 06:24 PM
That's not actually true. The Solar/Abyssal switch is almost literally just like flipping a switch. It was done by the Neverborn - who are incapable of making new things. At least Yozis can still create stuff - just not on the scale they used to be able to.

GSP exaltations are the ones that have been tinkered with. No 'gluing' involved.

The Rose Dragon
2011-03-15, 06:25 PM
See, there's this mirror that can flip a Solar's exaltation over to Abyssal...

I have no idea what book it's in.

It's a bit more complex. The Black Mirror does change a Solar greatly, but it doesn't actually make them an Abyssal, merely allows them to use Abyssal Charms until their next limit break, gives them Whispers and temporarily turns them into creatures of darkness outside Fate. It also wasn't built by Exalted, if it was built by anyone. The Solar artificers aren't even allowed to analyze the artifact, by the Hierophant's order.


That's not actually true. The Solar/Abyssal switch is almost literally just like flipping a switch. It was done by the Neverborn - who are incapable of making new things. At least Yozis can still create stuff - just not on the scale they used to be able to.

GSP exaltations are the ones that have been tinkered with. No 'gluing' involved.

The Solar - Abyssal switch is like inverting the Essence flows of an Exaltation. It cannot, however, be reversed by anyone but the Exalt himself. It is a simple but essential change to the Exaltation that doesn't leave anything to be fixed.

The Green Sun Princes are basically Solar Exaltations with lots of vitriolic gunk on it. The core of the Exaltation remains inaccessible to the Exalt himself, except to power his Charms, so the Infernal himself cannot change his nature, but it is fairly easy for the creators and caretakers to scrub it off, if they can capture the Exaltation.

Lochar
2011-03-15, 06:30 PM
So what book, TRD?

Rikandur Azebol
2011-03-15, 06:30 PM
Huh ? From what I read Lytek can't alter Exaltations. Abyssal ones are Solar-reversed, and Lytek lacks equipment ... but given time might stumble on the resolution by trial and error. Infernal Ones are ... tweaked in a more subtle way. They aren't reversed Solar Exaltations, but are remade into something significantly distinct. Infernal splatbook states that Lytek is well over his head if he tries to "fix" Infernal Exaltation.

I wonder if GSPs should have Essence 6 charm "Incarnate Mockery of Principle" that lets them acquire US's charms.^^

The Rose Dragon
2011-03-15, 06:31 PM
So what book, TRD?

Lands of Creation, the West chapter.

Yuki Akuma
2011-03-15, 06:33 PM
I wonder if GSPs should have Essence 6 charm "Incarnate Mockery of Principle" that lets them acquire US's charms.^^

There's no reason to assume they couldn't do that with sufficient Devil-Tiger twinkery.

Holy charms would still be beyond them though, unless they can get themselves struck from the "Creature of Darkness" list.

Tavar
2011-03-15, 06:33 PM
That's not actually true. The Solar/Abyssal switch is almost literally just like flipping a switch. It was done by the Neverborn - who are incapable of making new things. At least Yozis can still create stuff - just not on the scale they used to be able to.

GSP exaltations are the ones that have been tinkered with. No 'gluing' involved.

I'm pretty sure that it's come up before that Lytek actually can't change an Abyssal into a Solar, nor change an Abyssal shard into a Solar Shard. But he can change a GSP shard into a Solar shard, because the things that make it different are simply 'g....
Wait. Found what I was looking for. http://nobilis.me/quotes:damnation-101

Lytek can't restore an Abyssal Exaltation, but he can restore an Infernal one. This goes back to an issue of frequency. In the case of Abyssals, the frequency of the Solar Exaltation has been changed beyond his power to do anything about it. This is a very underboard way of saying it has been deeply tainted and inverted in such a way that is has not been fundamentally changed, only warped, and it is beyond his ability to restore it, as he cannot influence Exaltations internally to change how they function. Infernal Exaltations are just frontloading a ton of Primordial charm technology, mutations if you will, that he can scrape off the Exaltation and restore it. It is surface-level change. Infernal Exaltation similar to just wrapping a perishable temporary Exaltation over the imperishable Solar Exaltation, so it's kind of using the Solar "shard" as a battery pack.

TheCountAlucard
2011-03-15, 06:43 PM
Speaking of Infernals, I briefly had this thought, wanted to see if it had merit...

Many Charms in the Adorjan Charmset are limited by the fact that you have to be going as fast as possible for the Charms to function. With them, however, you can run so fast that you can go up walls, dash across water, or even go invisible or fly.

The thought I had here was, "What's the absolute slowest you can go to actually pull these things off?" Yes, you have to be going as fast as you can in order for the Charms to work, but if you can be outpaced by a starting character while doing so, that'd just look silly, now wouldn't it? :smalltongue:

"Wait, he's going so fast that he's invisible, but I'm running faster than him, and everyone can see me just fine?" :smallconfused:

Any ideas for this? :smallbiggrin:

The Rose Dragon
2011-03-15, 06:46 PM
Adorjan is not about being fast. Adorjan is about being the wind. There is no such thing as a still wind, and there is no such thing as a still Adorjan. As such, Adorjan moves, constantly, and the wind moves with her - for the wind is her. As such, her Charms are not about moving fast, but about moving without end.

TheCountAlucard
2011-03-15, 06:48 PM
Adorjan is not about being fast. Adorjan is about being the wind. There is no such thing as a still wind, and there is no such thing as a still Adorjan. As such, Adorjan moves, constantly, and the wind moves with her - for the wind is her. As such, her Charms are not about moving fast, but about moving without end.Still, the Charms specify that you have to be moving at your maximum possible speed in order to activate them/keep them active. My query was to see just how slow-moving a Scourge could actually be.

Yuki Akuma
2011-03-15, 06:49 PM
Adorjan doesn't become invisible because she's moving quickly. Adorjan is invisible because Adorjan is invisible.

Adorjan's "velocity" charms require you to be moving at your top speed to use them because you have to be Adorjan to use Adorjan's charms, and Adorjan is always moving at top speed.

golentan
2011-03-15, 06:50 PM
Guys, I think you're overlooking the larger issue: Fluff on the nature of exaltation is borked. Abyssal redemption has a million contradictory things said about redemption, even leaving off the nonsense we could get into about the monstrances. GSPs we know can't be fixed while the exalt lives, but is contradictory on whether it's superficial or deep down structural change.

The Rose Dragon
2011-03-15, 06:52 PM
Still, the Charms specify that you have to be moving at your maximum possible speed in order to activate them/keep them active. My query was to see just how slow-moving a Scourge could actually be.

2 yards per tick, assuming you have enough penalties to bring your dashing speed that low.

Jokasti
2011-03-15, 08:03 PM
We should write standardized Exaltation fluff.

DeadManSleeping
2011-03-15, 08:24 PM
We should write standardized Exaltation fluff.

...*ahem*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xEfUh6dSpk

Seriously, man, if people being PAID to be relatively consistent managed to make the mishmash that Exalted is now, how well do you think a bunch of forumites will perform? Seriously, if you can get five people to form a complete consensus on that kind of topic, I will guarantee you at least one of them will be wishing something was at least a little different. Standardized. Pfeh.

Jokasti
2011-03-15, 08:31 PM
/cries :smallfrown:
I believe in the heart of the cards forum!

Tavar
2011-03-15, 08:39 PM
Well, it appears that quite a few of them aren't paid to be consistent with it. Heck, the developers admit that they were inconsistent within the same book(Infernals, I believe).

But, yeah, there are wildly different views on this forum regarding what's good vs what's not.

The Rose Dragon
2011-03-15, 08:41 PM
Well, it appears that quite a few of them aren't paid to be consistent with it. Heck, the developers admit that they were inconsistent within the same book(Infernals, I believe).

But, yeah, there are wildly different views on this forum regarding what's good vs what's not.

We need some sort of standardized test to make things simpler. I suggest making everything I like good and everything I don't bad.

Tavar
2011-03-15, 08:47 PM
Wow, you're a mind reader! I was going to suggest the exact same thing, word for word!:smallbiggrin:

DeadManSleeping
2011-03-15, 08:51 PM
Guys, if you want something standardized, it's best to confer with your playgroup. Even if we did manage to get some consensus on this forum, I highly doubt you'll ever play an Exalted game in which every player and the ST all take part in this thread. To them, the consensus will be meaningless, or at least, of no more weight than what is said in the actual books (and probably less).

That said, I still think we'd never manage to get it down to less than three disparate viewpoints. And that's just the standard Celestial Exaltations.

Jokasti
2011-03-15, 08:52 PM
That's stupid because Abyssals are stupid.
How's this for starters?
§Auto-kun created 700 physical "Exaltations"
--Could be changed to say 500 for Solars and Lunars, or even 300 Sidereal ones (of which only 100 are currently out) or other personal changes. I personally like 100 of every caste and 50 for Sidereals. More Solars= more Abyssals/Infernals.
§Of these, 300 were Solar, 300 Lunar, and 100 sidereal pre-war
--Could be changed as appropriate for previous tweak.
§After the war, Lytek was appointed God of Exaltation, charged with wiping most of the memories of the previous life, with some left over for instruction (finding tombs, learning charms, etc).
§Exaltations can at any point, while not bound to a soul, choose a soul within the purview of Fate to bind the Exaltation to.
--Solars have to be courageous or awesome
--Lunars have to have some element of survival
--Sidereals are fated to Exalt, I forget their criteria

I'm on my phone so this is getting long to type, any more suggestions?

Fortuna
2011-03-15, 08:58 PM
It's my understanding that there are no criteria for Sidereals. Rather, the child is fated from birth to Exalt, and the Exaltation must bond with it at the appropriate time. The fate alters the child's disposition to match their intended caste.

Yuki Akuma
2011-03-15, 09:00 PM
You have to have a heroic soul to Exalt as a Sidereal. Although that doesn't really change anything because Fate will only choose someone born with a heroic soul or someone fated to become heroic at some point.

TheCountAlucard
2011-03-15, 09:13 PM
--Lunars have to have some element of survivalLunars are also themed toward protection, IIRC.

The Rose Dragon
2011-03-15, 09:17 PM
Lunars are also themed toward protection, IIRC.

...Lunars have a theme?

Kylarra
2011-03-15, 09:21 PM
...Lunars have a theme?Silver solars is a theme. :smalltongue:

Tavar
2011-03-15, 09:26 PM
...Lunars have a theme?

They have several themes. It's just none of them are big enough/integrated enough to really sell them as a unique brand of Exalt.

Jokasti
2011-03-15, 09:28 PM
Yeah, Lunars need a new book. So do Sidereals, Abyssals, Infernals, Dragon-Blooded, Alchemicals, and Solars.

Tavar
2011-03-15, 09:49 PM
Okay, this isn't about the average mortal. But, what would a second age scholar with about 4 dots in lore, 3 in occult, with schooling in Lookshy, know about the Yozi/primordials? Anything?

SurlySeraph
2011-03-15, 09:54 PM
...Lunars have a theme?

Mostly protection and versatility. Also survivalism, evolution (whether Lamarckian in which you change yourself into something perfectly adapted for solving the problem you face, or natural selection in which the weak people in your model ecosystem-society die off until it's full of badasses), shapeshifting, being an outsider to society, being able to adapt to any society and belong anywhere, emulating nature in general and animals in particular, savage beast (Full Moon)/ trickster (Changing Moon)/ wise old nature guy (guess) archetypes.

And being a Solar's bodyguard, drinking buddy, and/or boyfriend.

And said Solar's moral guide, I guess, given the stuff about how Lunar mates are the fastest way to redeem Abyssals and GSPs. That didn't seem to remotely work out in anything I've read about the first age, but eh. Maybe Leviathan, Lilith, Ma-Ha-Suchi, and Ingosh were just exceptions and most Lunars had healthy and nurturing relationships with their mates.

Indon
2011-03-15, 10:14 PM
They have several themes. It's just none of them are big enough/integrated enough to really sell them as a unique brand of Exalt.

I view the overarching theme of Lunars as an existential one.

The only divine mandate Lunars are given is a fairly insignificant and petty one that, in practice, is more a clearly unnatural compulsion than anything else. Of all the groups of Exalts in Creation, they are the most free to do what they please in the world - with Celestial power, and the backing of their fellows, but lacking severe responsibility.

From an ST's perspective, a Lunar NPC can fit damn near anywhere. They can be Wyld-themed villains or urban masterminds, deep Realm infiltrators with powerful anti-Fate artifacts, exotic locale explorers, Deathlords - you name it, a Lunar can thematically go there. Lacking guidance, Lunars forge their own fates.

From a player's perspective, Lunars are the easiest Exalt to throw into a multi-Exalt circle of damn near any composition, because of the above.

Kyeudo
2011-03-15, 10:18 PM
From a player's perspective, Lunars are the easiest Exalt to throw into a multi-Exalt circle of damn near any composition, because of the above.

At least, they would be if they weren't straightjacketed into particular builds to be effective. You get combat monkeys and sexy socialites and that's about it.

DeadManSleeping
2011-03-15, 10:25 PM
At least, they would be if they weren't straightjacketed into particular builds to be effective. You get combat monkeys and sexy socialites and that's about it.

With the exception of sorcerer/artificers, those are about the only types of builds I really see in any Exalt type :smalltongue:

Indon
2011-03-15, 10:34 PM
With the exception of sorcerer/artificers, those are about the only types of builds I really see in any Exalt type :smalltongue:

And the No Moon anima power is frightening for Sorcery.

Agrippa
2011-03-15, 10:59 PM
And said Solar's moral guide, I guess, given the stuff about how Lunar mates are the fastest way to redeem Abyssals and GSPs. That didn't seem to remotely work out in anything I've read about the first age, but eh. Maybe Leviathan, Lilith, Ma-Ha-Suchi, and Ingosh were just exceptions and most Lunars had healthy and nurturing relationships with their mates.

Maybe their Solar mates were just too wicked and far gone to be redeemed at all. That could be it.

golentan
2011-03-15, 10:59 PM
And the No Moon anima power is frightening for Sorcery.

I think you had a typo here. This should read "Almost makes sorcery worth it. Almost."

Reynard
2011-03-15, 11:05 PM
Actually, it was Leviathan who screwed up his relationship with his Solar Mate, after having an affair with said Solar's wife, then running to save her instead of his Mate when the Siddies went for broke.

He failed to save either of them, and hides in his city in shame, half-mad (he still calls himself an Admiral, even though the navy doesn't exist.)

He's also the (probably unwitting/knowing) leader of that-group-of-Lunars-that believe-you-should-love-your-mate-and-hold-them-and-squeeze-them-and-call-them-George-whose-name-I-can't-be-bothered-to-spell-and-my-this-is-getting-long.

Indon
2011-03-15, 11:21 PM
I think you had a typo here. This should read "Almost makes sorcery worth it. Almost."

Extreme downtime requirements aside, Sorcery is very powerful, if only for the ability to access effects thematically disparate from your Exaltation type.

golentan
2011-03-15, 11:28 PM
I agree, but the massive downtime and related rules makes it harsh for combat, and even the massive cost reduction of the No Moon requires you spend motes equal to the discount (I.E. only effective if you're casting a lot of spells at once)

Kylarra
2011-03-16, 01:19 AM
I feel that if you're only looking at the "directly in combat utility" aspect of sorcery, you're selling its capabilities far short of what it can do. Even if we're looking only at CCS, since no-moons are the topic of discussion, to say nothing of SCS which kicks rules to the curb.

senrath
2011-03-16, 01:36 AM
The problem is that while some spells are really great and are worth taking (like the summoning spells and Imbue Amalgam), the rest are either mediocre at best or downright suicidal to use at worst.

Drascin
2011-03-16, 05:12 AM
There is also the problem that many, many spells are the kind of thing you cast maybe two times per story, tops, but still cost the same XP as getting more generally advantageous Charms or raising perpetually useful Ability dots or any other stuff - and XP is, in my experience, a sharply limited resource. It makes buying most spells feel like a waste.

And certainly combat spells are a bad idea among bad ideas. Sorcery is the go to place for big, powerful, but costly effects. In a game with cheap PDs, high DVs, and many immunities galore, "big, powerful, costly attacks" tend to read "waste this turn" :smallsigh:


...*ahem*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xEfUh6dSpk

Seriously, man, if people being PAID to be relatively consistent managed to make the mishmash that Exalted is now, how well do you think a bunch of forumites will perform?

Better than Exalted writers, I reckon. At least we have a forum and we use it to talk to each other, which seems to be out of style in WW's offices. There's accounts of writers who seriously had no idea what the other guys were writing until they saw the document in print.


Mostly protection and versatility. Also survivalism, evolution (whether Lamarckian in which you change yourself into something perfectly adapted for solving the problem you face, or natural selection in which the weak people in your model ecosystem-society die off until it's full of badasses), shapeshifting, being an outsider to society, being able to adapt to any society and belong anywhere, emulating nature in general and animals in particular, savage beast (Full Moon)/ trickster (Changing Moon)/ wise old nature guy (guess) archetypes.


A pity half of those themes are so little expanded upon that most people can't even see them. Seriously, I mentioned the "outsiders" theme to my current ST and her reaction was something in the vein of "...uh? Don't really see it...". To most people, being a Lunar is simply about being tough and being persistent. Which is great for Full Moons, but makes thinking of No Moon exaltations a serious bear :smallsigh:. I mean, I managed in the end, but still...

MickJay
2011-03-16, 05:37 AM
The thought I had here was, "What's the absolute slowest you can go to actually pull these things off?" Yes, you have to be going as fast as you can in order for the Charms to work, but if you can be outpaced by a starting character while doing so, that'd just look silly, now wouldn't it? :smalltongue:

"Wait, he's going so fast that he's invisible, but I'm running faster than him, and everyone can see me just fine?" :smallconfused:

Any ideas for this? :smallbiggrin:

Start with making your character legless. You're getting bonus points at creation AND your top speed is going to be somewhat limited. For extra effect, have your character's arms chopped off as well. :smalltongue:

The Rose Dragon
2011-03-16, 05:39 AM
Which is great for Full Moons, but makes thinking of No Moon exaltations a serious bear :smallsigh:. I mean, I managed in the end, but still...

I seriously read that to mean that you were talking about only having played Lunars whose spirit shapes were serious bears.

TheCountAlucard
2011-03-16, 06:20 AM
Okay, this isn't about the average mortal. But, what would a second age scholar with about 4 dots in lore, 3 in occult, with schooling in Lookshy, know about the Yozi/primordials? Anything?Well, 3 in Occult is enough to know about most First Circle Demons, so I imagine you'd have at least an inkling of how it worked: namely, how these First Circle Demons were created by the Yozis/their composite souls to serve various purposes, and that the Second and Third Circle Demons are somehow vital components to the Yozis...


I seriously read that to mean that you were talking about only having played Lunars whose spirit shapes were serious bears.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa100/TheCountAlucard666/serious-bear.jpg

DeadManSleeping
2011-03-16, 08:49 AM
I feel that if you're only looking at the "directly in combat utility" aspect of sorcery, you're selling its capabilities far short of what it can do. Even if we're looking only at CCS, since no-moons are the topic of discussion, to say nothing of SCS which kicks rules to the curb.

Ah, but outside of directly-in-combat, you don't have that same mote-dependency thing because you can pace yourself better, which makes the No Moon's anima banner pretty unhelpful.

Drascin
2011-03-16, 09:20 AM
By the way, while we're talking Sorcery, I'm reading the Celestial Circle spells in the White Treatise for the first time, and I'm kind of... underwhelmed. I'm trying to think up of scenarios that would allow for use of many of these spells and which would come up more than maybe twice per campaign, and I'm having trouble. The effects are really cool and all, but they feel like they are mostly either in the once-in-a-game category or the not-worth-so-much-essence-oh-my-god-why-does-this-cost-35-motes category.

And then there's Imbue Amalgam, which I'm either reading wrong or could be used for so many shenanigans it's not even funny.

Lochar
2011-03-16, 09:30 AM
You're not reading it wrong.

Guancyto
2011-03-16, 09:34 AM
I don't know how you could possibly think that. Sure, most of the spells aren't very good. Then there's Magma Kraken, which is the solution to everything.

Yuki Akuma
2011-03-16, 09:50 AM
Sorcery is more useful for Exalts who can't simply do everything awesomely like Solars.

Solars only get use from Solar spells. Which is why they were developed really. They can do practically anything Celestial spells can do by themselves.

Perhaps not on such dramatic scales, so there's that. Sorcery is for when you want to kill an army all at once?

Drascin
2011-03-16, 10:24 AM
You're not reading it wrong.

I was afraid so. It does have the drawback that you need to utterly destroy the personality of a mortal and substitute it for slavish devotion, so it's really kind of morally objectionable to many characters, but in the hands of someone without moral compunctions this thing could get pretty silly pretty quick...


I don't know how you could possibly think that. Sure, most of the spells aren't very good. Then there's Magma Kraken, which is the solution to everything.

Eh, as far as memetic solutions to everything go, I prefer Neighborhood Relocation Technique :smalltongue:. But yes, there is undeniable style in dropping a giant aggroed chunk of magma with tentacles on your enemy's head.


Sorcery is more useful for Exalts who can't simply do everything awesomely like Solars.

Solars only get use from Solar spells. Which is why they were developed really. They can do practically anything Celestial spells can do by themselves.

Perhaps not on such dramatic scales, so there's that. Sorcery is for when you want to kill an army all at once?

Actually, I'm searching for spells for a Lunar, not a Solar - I don't play Solars if I can avoid it at all. It's just that most of these seem just so impractical to use, and so very much not worth the annoyance of finding a source to study the spells and then scraping 10 XP for the initiation charm and then another 10 XP for each individual spell that you'll probably use twice in the campaign at most (except, okay, Magma Kraken, because that's a spell you'll probably spam as much as humanly possible if you do get itjust because of the whole "it's a goddamn magma kraken, dude" thing, and there are indeed few situations that can't be improved by an angry kraken on fire :smalltongue:)

Lochar
2011-03-16, 10:30 AM
Imbue Amalgam is also benefited by Summon Elemental, and Demon of the First and Second Circle.

Bind a few elementals/demons, then Imbue your Amalgam so you've got plenty of charms to give to it.

Tavar
2011-03-16, 11:06 AM
Well, one spell suffers from the problems that Warstriders in canon are bad, but if that's fixed, the celestial spell that creates a full warstrider could be useful.

Maybe.

Reynard
2011-03-16, 11:13 AM
Well... Moonsilver Warstriers are pretty decent. You can take a colossal one and not suffer any mobility penalty, and keep the insane strength.

Yes, you'll be just as nimble in a colossal warstrider as you are on the ground.

Indon
2011-03-16, 11:49 AM
Actually, I'm searching for spells for a Lunar, not a Solar - I don't play Solars if I can avoid it at all.
If you want to get the most out of Sorcery, you'll probably want to write spells for yourself. The written spells give a broad power range for what the spells can do, and sorcery itself has few non-power limitations.

Though? The Faithful Ally looks like the most awesome Celestial spell for a Lunar ever. You can hook yourself up in a mind-network with your party, and the teleportation is expensive but potentially awesome - heck, a No Moon with even mediocre Essence could concievably pop their entire circle to them, albeit at the cost of most of their motes.

Reynard
2011-03-16, 05:52 PM
I did something. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191161)

Any comments would be very welcome.

[/shameless plug]

SurlySeraph
2011-03-17, 12:33 PM
@^: I'll need to read it over more carefully to really analyze it, but I certainly like the idea so far.


To most people, being a Lunar is simply about being tough and being persistent. Which is great for Full Moons, but makes thinking of No Moon exaltations a serious bear :smallsigh:. I mean, I managed in the end, but still...

Yeah, No Moons don't seem to get much support/ recognition. The most prominent one is Raksi, and she spends her time being creepy and failing at Solar Circle Sorcery. I'd assume a No Moon elder would generally be some ridiculously old guy with high virtues and moss growing in his beard guiding the younger generations with timeless wisdom, but the closest thing we see is Ingosh Silverclaws, and he isn't a No Moon.
I can think of a few No Moon concepts (mostly variations on "wise nature person" and "shapeshifting master manipulator/ guy who out-plots the Sidereals"), but there isn't much to go on.


Start with making your character legless. You're getting bonus points at creation AND your top speed is going to be somewhat limited. For extra effect, have your character's arms chopped off as well. :smalltongue:

Have you read Scroll of Heroes?

A legless character in a wheelchair or cart (either of which is Resources 1) can move and dash, but the movement rate is based on the character’s Strength instead of Dexterity.

Yeah, that's right. If you're beefy, having no legs lets you be faster than you would normally be. And even if you don't have a wheelchair, you can crawl at 1/3 your normal movement rate, which isn't terrible.

IcarusWings
2011-03-17, 01:35 PM
Bit o' Homebrew (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10574347#post10574347) from me. It's my first ever though, so probably very very broken or useless. One of the two :smallbiggrin:

MickJay
2011-03-17, 02:34 PM
Yeah, that's right. If you're beefy, having no legs lets you be faster than you would normally be. And even if you don't have a wheelchair, you can crawl at 1/3 your normal movement rate, which isn't terrible.

Well, according to the text, you still need that wheelchair or a cart (and arms to push yourself, too). Eliminate either of these, and your maximum speed becomes "0", meaning you can use Adorjan charms at will. :smallbiggrin:

SurlySeraph
2011-03-17, 04:02 PM
As I quoted, you can crawl at 1/3 your normal speed without a chair or cart. It doesn't specifically say that having no limbs makes you immobile, though ruling that it does is certainly reasonable (though one could still roll or shimmy along like a snake). Quadriplegic would do it, though, and you can still get (reduced) BP for being quadriplegic *and* missing limbs. So if you don't mind being limbless and paralyzed from the neck down, you can get 16 BP and use Velocity charms at will. I don't have MoEP: Infernals, but I assume there are Adorjan charms that would allow movement again.

Also, a limbless Green Sun Prince who runs by wiggling his nose or pulling himself along the ground with his tongue, so fast that you can't see him pass, while periodically dispensing inscrutable wisdom and finding people he loves and biting them to death... god I love Exalted. Can someone who has Infernals stat this up?

@V: Unless you take the Experienced merit or the Inheritance or Esoteric Knowledge backgrounds. Though none of those are available for a Scourge (unless you let him keep mortal-only/ God-Blood only things after Exalting), so your point stands.

Considering that, it would be mechanically superior to have arms, but I'm going to put fluff ahead of power here. To the extent that "Scourge Caste who is just an inexplicably fast-moving torso" is a fluff-reasonable concept.

Reynard
2011-03-17, 04:59 PM
As I quoted, you can crawl at 1/3 your normal speed without a chair or cart. It doesn't specifically say that having no limbs makes you immobile, though ruling that it does is certainly reasonable (though one could still roll or shimmy along like a snake). Quadriplegic would do it, though, and you can still get (reduced) BP for being quadriplegic *and* missing limbs. So if you don't mind being limbless and paralyzed from the neck down, you can get 16 BP and use Velocity charms at will. I don't have MoEP: Infernals, but I assume there are Adorjan charms that would allow movement again.

Also, a limbless Green Sun Prince who runs by wiggling his nose or pulling himself along the ground with his tongue, so fast that you can't see him pass, while periodically dispensing inscrutable wisdom and finding people he loves and biting them to death... god I love Exalted. Can someone who has Infernals stat this up?

No, you can't. The total BP you get from flaws can't be above 10.

Tavar
2011-03-17, 08:11 PM
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I believe that flaw also states that people who are badly injured in a permanent way generally don't exalt. For various reasons.

SurlySeraph
2011-03-17, 08:26 PM
Yep, it says "Exalted characters gain less from this Flaw than mortals, since the gods simply do not normally choose crippled characters for Exaltation." It's even more ludicrous for the Primordial who never steps moving to choose a completely immobile person as a champion. Adorjan tends to be weird even for a Yozi, and given her maimed state and high Compassion would probably be able to identify with and pity an immobilized former runner, particularly if he didn't talk much. But a paralyzed Scourge Caste is still a very, very dumb idea.

With that said, hyperspeed Infernal torso-assassin.

Lochar
2011-03-17, 08:31 PM
Tis just a flesh wound! Come back over here and I'll bite your kneecaps off!

SurlySeraph
2011-03-17, 10:44 PM
On a non-paralysis-related note, I just found a potentially useful trick. It's a semiperfect defense + counterattack. You combo either Break the Storm (http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=470178596653) (from Solar Hero Style) or Crimson Palm Counterstrike (from VBoS Style) with Empowering Justice Redirection (from Crane Style). Empowering Justice Redirection adds a number of successes equal to the successes on your opponent's attack roll to your counterattack roll, so you'll automatically negate the attack, and if your parry DV was already high you'll get a fairly hefty bonus on your counterattack because more of the successes from EJR will go towards attacking instead of towards negating your opponent's successes.
A further advantage is that since high PDV effectively increases your successes on the counterattack roll, this is nice with post-errata Blade of the Battle Maiden and great with pre-errata.
Disadvantages: Takes 8 Charms to get the necessary Charms and prereqs. I think rerolls let the attack get through anyway since you negate the attack in Step 2. The Crimson Palm Counterstrike version is a lot weaker than the Break the Storm version, unless you take "The intercepting fist seen here will also be repeated in the errata of Crimson Palm Counterstrike" to be stealth errata replacing CPC's text with Break the Storm's text or decide that ambiguous things in CPC should be treated like clearer things in Break the Storm. It's expensive, at 8m per attack plus 1wp for the combo; you can bring it down to 4m per attack with the Precision of Form Gemstone and Perfected Kata Bracers, but those are pretty expensive and powerful items to be relying on. Adding in Joy in Adversity Stance, Certain Victory Formulation and/ or Final Sunset Stance + Fading Light Quickening would also help with the cost.

@V: Nice!

Lochar
2011-03-17, 10:48 PM
Snake Strikes the Heel, Empowering Justice Redirection, Adamant Skin Technique.

Hi, I absorbed your attack without dodging (so your successes ALL count), and I'm returning that twofold to you with my MA tacked on as well.

Nighty night.

Tavar
2011-03-19, 03:29 PM
Do flurries count as one action or multiple actions for the purposes of charms that count on those, like Relentless Lunar's Fury?

SurlySeraph
2011-03-19, 03:48 PM
For duration, you mean? One action.

Lochar
2011-03-19, 03:50 PM
An action is the time in which you do something to when your DV refreshes.

The-Mage-King
2011-03-19, 10:30 PM
So. I am interested in learning to play this game.


Teach me. In a simple manner.

Tavar
2011-03-19, 10:33 PM
Do you have the books? Because, there's not SRD for the game, so there's a lot the we can't cover right, unless you have the books to fall back on.

The-Mage-King
2011-03-19, 10:37 PM
Do you have the books? Because, there's not SRD for the game, so there's a lot the we can't cover right, unless you have the books to fall back on.

*shifty look*

...Assume I have core.

Lochar
2011-03-19, 10:40 PM
Then we must assume you at least have a character archetype you want to play.

So what is it? Do you want to play sorcerer, god-king of war, the person that could rebuild the world as a machine, what?

The-Mage-King
2011-03-19, 10:44 PM
...LARGE HAM?

Wait, no, that's probably inherent in the system...


Uh... Will... Master swordsman, able to cleave tall buildings in twain with a single strike do?

Tavar
2011-03-19, 10:54 PM
Basic setting history; Primordials created the world out of raw chaos. They set up gods to run the world, and went off to do their game, and generally screw around. The gods didn't like this, but they and everything else of power was geased so as not to be able to fight the primordials. Then some of the most powerful figured out how to empower the weakest of the primordials creations, Mankind, with part of their power. These were the Exalted, subdivided into Terrestrial(dragonblooded), Sidereal, Lunars, and Solars. The Solars were the most powerful. The revolt succeeded. Some Primordials were killed outright, others were forced to swear oaths and were terribly maimed. Then, these twisted survivors were stuffed inside the world body of their leader, and sent into elsewhere.

Solars started ruling the world. But there was a problem. When some of the Primordials were killed, they put terrible curses on their murderers. No one realized this happened, but as time went on it began to drive the exalted to madness. Worst effected were those considered most responsible, the Solar exalted. Eventually, the Terrestrials rose up, guided by the Sidereals, and killed the solars. Their exaltations, usually free to reincarnate, were trapped. The world was diminished, but it survived.

Fast forward...1000 years? The Great Contagion hit. This killed 9 out of every 10 people. If that wasn't enough, the Fey, creatures spawned from the chaos outside of the world, trying to end the horror that was structure, invaded. They Killed many of the rest. But one Terrestrial managed to activate Creation's defenses. Saving the world, and restoring order. She founded the Realm, which over the next 750 years became the primary superpower in the world.

But, 5 years ago, she disappeared. Now the realm is pulling itself apart. Even more recently, the Solar shards, so long gone, have returned.

This summary leaves out a lot. Including most of your antagonists, and the world.

The-Mage-King
2011-03-19, 11:00 PM
Got it.

I've actually read the article on TVTropes about the game's setting, so I was more asking for help with the mechanical side of it...

Like understanding Charms and the other abilities.

Tavar
2011-03-19, 11:04 PM
Okay, the system is based on 9 attributes and 25 abilities. Rolls are Attribute+ability, with certain things adding modifiers. Charms are, well, magical abilities that you get due to being an exalted. You activate them with motes, which are magical energy. There are limitations. Unless otherwise noted, you can only activate one charm per action.

The-Mage-King
2011-03-19, 11:05 PM
Obtaining the aforementioned Charms? And do they have levels of power?

EDIT: Another question: Motes- do they regenerate, or do you need to have a way to restore them?

Tavar
2011-03-19, 11:06 PM
You get some at chargen, and others can be bought with Xp, given out over time. Charms do have prerequisites, leading to what are called charm trees.

The-Mage-King
2011-03-19, 11:06 PM
And motes regenerate?

Tavar
2011-03-19, 11:09 PM
Yes, over time. There are also stunts. Basically, describe something, adding details and interactions with the scenery, and you get bonus dice and more motes back.

The-Mage-King
2011-03-19, 11:11 PM
Alright.


I don't suppose that there's a newbie game recruiting now?

Or that they'd mind an inhuman abomination empowered by the Yozi master swordsman joining?


Or should I stick with a Solar for my first character?

Tavar
2011-03-19, 11:14 PM
Solars are probably the easiest. Plus, you only need to flip through one book, not multiple.

The-Mage-King
2011-03-19, 11:19 PM
Got it. And I won't be technical about it, either.



So, any PBP games recruiting here?

Tael
2011-03-19, 11:20 PM
Read this (http://wiki.white-wolf.com/exalted/index.php?title=Category:Essays). Now. It is invaluable in learning Exalted without a teacher. (specifically read 201, it's essential, but the others are good too)

Lochar
2011-03-19, 11:30 PM
Uh... Will... Master swordsman, able to cleave tall buildings in twain with a single strike do?

Building this as simply as I can, yes I realize he would probably get owned in anything but combat. But we're building a glass nuclear reactor here.

A Solar Exalt, Dawn caste straight out of the box. All attributes are minimum 1, and then you add points up to five, depending on your primary focus. Here, we're going to focus on your melee. We're going to set Strength to 5 and Dex to 5. Also get Perception as high as you can.

There are 25 abilities. At the moment, we want Dodge 5, Melee 5, and Awareness 5.

We're going to spend most of the rest of our bonus points getting Essence 3.

Ten charms to start with.

3 will go into Dodge so that you can dodge any attack at you. (We want Seven Shadows Evasion)

The other seven will go into Melee charms. We're going to get First Melee Excellency, Infinite Melee Mastery, Hungry Tiger Technique, One Weapon-Two Blows, Peony Blossom Attack, and Iron Whirlwind Attack.

Combos in starting game are created by spending one bonus point per Charm in the combo.

We're going to put Seven Shadows, Iron Whirlwind, First Melee and Hungry Tiger into a combo for four bonus points.

Background points are going to go 3 dots to a Grand Daiklave which will give us 3 accuracy and +12 lethal damage.

So we've spent 18 bonus points and 9 out of ten charms. What can we do with this?

Before we do anything else, we commit 6 motes to Infinite Melee Mastery to reduce all costs of First Melee Excellency by 3 motes when we use it.

Then in the same scene, our Combo costs the total cost of all the charms we use inside it, plus an additional 1 willpower to activate it.

Iron Whirlwind is 5m, 1 willpower. Hungry Tiger is 1m. We have Dexterity of 5 and Melee of 5, so First Melee Excellency is 10m, minus the 3 we put into the Mastery above, so 7m.

So 6m, 1wp, and then an additional 1wp to activate the combo. We get Dexterity+1 attacks, so 6 attacks. We have a base of 13 dice, and we can add up to 10 more dice with the first excellency, at a cost of 0-7m.

So if we want to go insane all out, we could spend 42m for the excellency, 6m, 1wp for the other charms, and then 1wp for the combo activation.

You would roll 23 dice and compare it to the enemy's Defense Value(DV). And then do that 5 more times.

The enemy DV is the number of successes on a roll. A success on any one particular die is rolling 7-10, and 10s are counted twice. Most enemies have a DV of about 8-10 if they're fairly serious enemies.

Damage on our hypothetical glass reactor here is 12L from the weapon plus the Solar's 5 strength, plus any extra successes over the enemies DV. At 23 dice, we're looking at about 12-13 successes.

So let's say the enemy has 10 DV and we roll 12 successes each time. That's 2 successes over the DV, and Hungry Tiger says we count them twice.

Add the Solar's 12L from his sword and 5 Str. That's 21 dice of damage. Roll those 21 dice. Each success is a level of damage. 10s are not counted twice here.



And we do this five more times.




Now remember, this is a theoretical build that is all damage output, no real safety minus his Seven Shadows Evasion that he hopefully still has the motes of Essence to use if something attacks him.

TheCountAlucard
2011-03-20, 03:54 AM
So, any PBP games recruiting here?(begins sizzling from the constrained radiance of the Solar within)

I SHALL DO THIS, IF YOU DESIRE.

Sound good? :smallsmile:

I kinda want to keep it small, though, so just you and maybe another dude, 'kay?

Let's just say I've got something interesting in mind, 'kay? :sabine:

knightMARE
2011-03-20, 05:20 AM
I wouldn't mind being the other dude. I've been interested in Exalted for ages, but haven't found an appropriate PBP to try it out in.

TheCountAlucard
2011-03-20, 05:43 AM
I wouldn't mind being the other dude. I've been interested in Exalted for ages, but haven't found an appropriate PBP to try it out in.(invokes Thread-Linking Playground Atemi) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191590)

Tael
2011-03-20, 02:53 PM
Alright, new question: How the hell does Striking Serpent Speed work? It says it's a magical flurry, but doesn't say anything about multiple action penalties or DVs. Let's say I get 3 actions with my roll. Can I activate different charms on those actions? Can I Flurry 3 attacks on the first, activate a form type charm, and then activate some other charm? Do my DVs refesh in between my actions? Is it just a really bad Extra action charm, with the one exception that you can use non-attack actions?

Lochar
2011-03-20, 03:01 PM
It's a standard extra action charm, but yes you can do non-combat stuff with it.

Since it doesn't say, if I were the ST I'd say you take normal DV penalties. Since they are standard actions you get, yes you can activate more than one charm, but they have to be in a Combo with the charm.

Tael
2011-03-20, 03:05 PM
It's a standard extra action charm, but yes you can do non-combat stuff with it.

Since it doesn't say, if I were the ST I'd say you take normal DV penalties. Since they are standard actions you get, yes you can activate more than one charm, but they have to be in a Combo with the charm.

So you take the extra action penalties as well? So there is no real benefit of using the charm?

Lochar
2011-03-20, 03:13 PM
As written, not so much. You'd have to get clarification on it from your own ST. I'd have to sit down and reread the entire thing as well to come up with a ruling for it.

Tavar
2011-03-20, 03:16 PM
Buh...that's entirely against the keyword.
Extra Action—Extra action Charms are Charm-based flurries
(see p. 143). Each functions as a normal flurry but has no multiple
action penalties. In addition, only the action with the highest
DV penalty imposes a DV penalty. The others do not. This magical
flurry is the character’s action. Therefore, if a flurry gives the
character two attacks, those two attacks are her complete action.The character can use the Charm only once per action and cannot
add multiple actions by mundane means.

Lochar
2011-03-20, 03:20 PM
Then I stand corrected against it, and note that it still allows non-combat related things to be done, so you'd still have to arbitrate what happens with those.

Jokasti
2011-03-20, 03:35 PM
Building this as simply as I can, yes I realize he would probably get owned in anything but combat. But we're building a glass nuclear reactor here.

A Solar Exalt, Dawn caste straight out of the box. All attributes are minimum 1, and then you add points up to five, depending on your primary focus. Here, we're going to focus on your melee. We're going to set Strength to 5 and Dex to 5. Also get Perception as high as you can.

There are 25 abilities. At the moment, we want Dodge 5, Melee 5, and Awareness 5.

We're going to spend most of the rest of our bonus points getting Essence 3.

Ten charms to start with.

3 will go into Dodge so that you can dodge any attack at you. (We want Seven Shadows Evasion)

The other seven will go into Melee charms. We're going to get First Melee Excellency, Infinite Melee Mastery, Hungry Tiger Technique, One Weapon-Two Blows, Peony Blossom Attack, and Iron Whirlwind Attack.

Combos in starting game are created by spending one bonus point per Charm in the combo.

We're going to put Seven Shadows, Iron Whirlwind, First Melee and Hungry Tiger into a combo for four bonus points.

Background points are going to go 3 dots to a Grand Daiklave which will give us 3 accuracy and +12 lethal damage.

So we've spent 18 bonus points and 9 out of ten charms. What can we do with this?

Before we do anything else, we commit 6 motes to Infinite Melee Mastery to reduce all costs of First Melee Excellency by 3 motes when we use it.

Then in the same scene, our Combo costs the total cost of all the charms we use inside it, plus an additional 1 willpower to activate it.

Iron Whirlwind is 5m, 1 willpower. Hungry Tiger is 1m. We have Dexterity of 5 and Melee of 5, so First Melee Excellency is 10m, minus the 3 we put into the Mastery above, so 7m.

So 6m, 1wp, and then an additional 1wp to activate the combo. We get Dexterity+1 attacks, so 6 attacks. We have a base of 13 dice, and we can add up to 10 more dice with the first excellency, at a cost of 0-7m.

So if we want to go insane all out, we could spend 42m for the excellency, 6m, 1wp for the other charms, and then 1wp for the combo activation.

You would roll 23 dice and compare it to the enemy's Defense Value(DV). And then do that 5 more times.

The enemy DV is the number of successes on a roll. A success on any one particular die is rolling 7-10, and 10s are counted twice. Most enemies have a DV of about 8-10 if they're fairly serious enemies.

Damage on our hypothetical glass reactor here is 12L from the weapon plus the Solar's 5 strength, plus any extra successes over the enemies DV. At 23 dice, we're looking at about 12-13 successes.

So let's say the enemy has 10 DV and we roll 12 successes each time. That's 2 successes over the DV, and Hungry Tiger says we count them twice.

Add the Solar's 12L from his sword and 5 Str. That's 21 dice of damage. Roll those 21 dice. Each success is a level of damage. 10s are not counted twice here.



And we do this five more times.




Now remember, this is a theoretical build that is all damage output, no real safety minus his Seven Shadows Evasion that he hopefully still has the motes of Essence to use if something attacks him.

But no one actually plays this type of character, just like no one plays a Twilight Essence Reactor or Pun-Pun, (1) because characters don't have perfect knowledge of game abstracts and all charms and (2) it wouldn't be fun at all, because things are either too easy to worry about or too hard to worry about.
Good thought experiment though, and is that without Dawn Fix charms? Nice.

Volthawk
2011-03-20, 03:43 PM
Twilight Essence Reactor.

What's that?

Tavar
2011-03-20, 03:45 PM
From what I remember, pre-errata, a Twilights anima could interact with Essence Gathering Temper to give them unlimited motes and evade all damage.

Lochar
2011-03-20, 03:45 PM
Of course, defense wins over offense in most situations, because the only person you'd turn a combo like that on is likely to have some form of perfect defense.

But it is a fun thought experiment.

Teln
2011-03-20, 04:28 PM
But no one actually plays this type of character, just like no one plays a Twilight Essence Reactor or Pun-Pun, (1) because characters don't have perfect knowledge of game abstracts and all charms and (2) it wouldn't be fun at all, because things are either too easy to worry about or too hard to worry about.

Good luck convincing the people on the official forum about that. I swear, they actually WOULD.

Lochar
2011-03-20, 04:39 PM
As I've said to other people. Exalted is more collaborative storytelling than it is hard mechanics, if you play it right. Doing otherwise you bring it down and it isn't Exalted anymore.

Tavar
2011-03-20, 11:25 PM
So, I've been thinking. I like robot anime, both of the 'real' and super varieties. I like exalted. Exalted has robots, and with a bit of work they can be anything from real to super. So, why not combine them. Would anyone else like to try this? I'd willing to run it, and I already have a couple ideas of how to do so.

TheCountAlucard
2011-03-21, 12:15 AM
Oh, Sol, I just realized something...

WE CAN STAT OUT THE NOSTALGIA CRITIC! :eek:

My guess is he has some Archery Charms, seeing how often he uses that gun... some Martial Arts Charms seem to be in order after his bout of fisticuffs with the Nerd... Obviously he's using Golden Years Tarnished Black and its expansions when he's doing his reviews, so he's probably an akuma of the Ebon Dragon, with an Urge related to tarnishing our nostalgic memories... :smallconfused:

Tavar
2011-03-21, 12:56 AM
I don't think so. I haven't really watched much, but he really only goes full throttle at the really bad stuff. Like, Neverending Story 3.

Drascin
2011-03-21, 01:33 AM
So, I've been thinking. I like robot anime, both of the 'real' and super varieties. I like exalted. Exalted has robots, and with a bit of work they can be anything from real to super. So, why not combine them. Would anyone else like to try this? I'd willing to run it, and I already have a couple ideas of how to do so.

Well, some people have tried before. It's problematic because warstriders suck, but if we fix warstriders it could certainly work.

Tavar
2011-03-21, 01:37 AM
At the very least, I'd be using Kyendo's fix for them. Not sure what else; I need to look into the rules more.

Kris Strife
2011-03-21, 01:38 AM
Will this be real or Super robots?

Tavar
2011-03-21, 01:40 AM
Bit of both. The idea is slightly based of a game I saw once. In that game, making warstriders was much faster, plus mortals could use them. Essentially, it was like gundam, with exalts as super robots, and mortals as real ones. Not sure which I want to do, though.

Kyeudo
2011-03-21, 01:41 AM
Well, some people have tried before. It's problematic because warstriders suck, but if we fix warstriders it could certainly work.

*Obligatory plug* (http://www.mediafire.com/?p17g342wgh8qnq9)

Tavar
2011-03-21, 01:47 AM
Hmm... just to be sure; what's wrong with warstriders as written in Wonders of the Lost age? From my short glances through it, I'd assume high attune costs/overall resources to use them, and overall weakness of options it gives you, but I'd like to know a bit more.

Kris Strife
2011-03-21, 01:47 AM
I'm interested either way, but it'll affect where I get the inspiration for my character and warstrider from.

Rikandur Azebol
2011-03-21, 02:31 AM
Warstrider problem boils down to be not a real robot, but just expensive armor. More like show-off case, and their rules are near identical to the rules of the Power Armors ... while PA's have less shortcomings while in use.

It was said that Warstrider was a powerful tool of war, right ? Not really so, since it have to be protected from small enemies pulling out these ... small parts, so it won't fall apart like so many modern cars left for a night in the rain, instead of spotlessly clean garage.

Warstirders are good for one thing, and this thing isn't war. It's parade of a victorious army. They just look impressive.

Drascin
2011-03-21, 02:38 AM
Hmm... just to be sure; what's wrong with warstriders as written in Wonders of the Lost age? From my short glances through it, I'd assume high attune costs/overall resources to use them, and overall weakness of options it gives you, but I'd like to know a bit more.

Well, biggest one is that, generally speaking, you're better off on foot than in a warstrider. Warstriders are clumsy, huge, have huge mobility penalties (this is a big point. -6 DV is much more hurtful than the little extra soak Warstriders give especially with Essence ping rules), require hideous mote attunements and maintenance, and barely give you any actual bonuses... they're just big, clumsy, handicapping power armors, except without the power armors' cool powers unless you pay extra for an animating intelligence. Between a Celestial battle armor and a warstrider, the armor is better in every way, easier to maintain, less obvious, and more powerful.

And honestly, Exalts or no, the idea that super robots are worse than slogging it on foot just doesn't sit right with me :smallsigh:.

Yuki Akuma
2011-03-21, 08:02 AM
That Resistance charm that lets you make a warstrider with no mobility penalty can be fun, though. Too bad it's Essence 7.

Also hellstriders are badass.

The Rose Dragon
2011-03-21, 08:03 AM
That Resistance charm that lets you make a warstrider with no mobility penalty can be fun, though. Too bad it's Essence 7.

Also hellstriders are badass.

Armored Scout's Invigoration is Essence 1.

Yuki Akuma
2011-03-21, 08:05 AM
Armored Scout's Invigoration is Essence 1.

That's not the charm I'm talking about.

Incomparable Soul-Born Warstrider. It lets you make a warstrider that doesn't have mobility penalties.

And it's Essence 6. >.>

(Which has apparently been errata'd into nonexistance. White Wolf doesn't like warstriders actually being useful I guess.)

Teln
2011-03-21, 10:09 AM
God-Forged Champion of War (http://wiki.white-wolf.com/exalted/index.php?title=Spells:God-Forged_Champion_of_War) only requires Essence 4.


...And Celestial Circle Sorcery.

Lochar
2011-03-21, 10:10 AM
yes, but it creates a Warstrider with standard mobility penalties.

Hyperion
2011-03-21, 01:22 PM
for the lunars critical part in the fae invasion, Lunars MoEP pg. 30 last paragraph, it clearly state that the lunars sacrifice helped the DB take control of the Manse system.

DrakeRaids
2011-03-21, 01:42 PM
Look guys. You are obviously confused, and its not your fault. You seem to think that Lunars are meaningfully allowed to effect canon. The fact of the matter is this is fundamentally incorrect. In fact, a cursory glance over 2E fluff reveals that one of its main tenets was in fact that Lunars are incapable of worthwhile action and are [Term for females dogs here] for Solars and unable to do anything on their own because WW apparently hates them.

Anything that might suggest that Lunar can do something on their own or accomplish anything noteworthy on their own virtue is quickly given stealth errata and overwritten, where they are shooed back into the wyld to [Alternate term for sexual intercourse here] animals all day long.

This is why we should ignore most canon having to do with Lunars or rewrite it altogether until it vaguely resembles something befitting Celestial tier Exalted. Because right now? It sure as hell doesn't.

DragonSinged
2011-03-21, 01:43 PM
So, we're coming up on page 50 of this thread again, nearly General Exalted Discussion III time. What do you guys think?

GED III: The Next One Takes Training Time
GED III: We Need More Essence
GED III: He's Rolling How Many Dice?
:smalltongue:

Tackyhillbillu
2011-03-21, 01:45 PM
for the lunars critical part in the fae invasion, Lunars MoEP pg. 30 last paragraph, it clearly state that the lunars sacrifice helped the DB take control of the Manse system.

And MoEP: DBs says they didn't. GWM gives yet another story. Each of the splats gives history from the point of view of that exalt/being. It is entirely unclear whether the Lunars had any effect, or simply tell themselves they do, so they can justify their conviction that the DBs are usurpers, and Creation would be better off if the Lunars put them 'back in their place' (i.e. as servants/slaves of the Lunars.)

Kyeudo
2011-03-21, 01:52 PM
Well, biggest one is that, generally speaking, you're better off on foot than in a warstrider. Warstriders are clumsy, huge, have huge mobility penalties (this is a big point. -6 DV is much more hurtful than the little extra soak Warstriders give especially with Essence ping rules), require hideous mote attunements and maintenance, and barely give you any actual bonuses... they're just big, clumsy, handicapping power armors, except without the power armors' cool powers unless you pay extra for an animating intelligence. Between a Celestial battle armor and a warstrider, the armor is better in every way, easier to maintain, less obvious, and more powerful.

And honestly, Exalts or no, the idea that super robots are worse than slogging it on foot just doesn't sit right with me :smallsigh:.

Well, technically its only a -3 penalty to Dodge DV (armor mobility penalty doesn't affect Parry DV and it only applies to the base pool, not after it has been calculated), but otherwise you have the right of it.

SurlySeraph
2011-03-21, 03:55 PM
I was under the impression that when you were in a Warstrider, the Warstrider took damage and you only got injured if it was really severely damaged. But no, it's just a big suit of armor that Piercing still gets through. Argh, I love and hate this system so much.

Indon
2011-03-21, 04:43 PM
I was under the impression that when you were in a Warstrider, the Warstrider took damage and you only got injured if it was really severely damaged. But no, it's just a big suit of armor that Piercing still gets through. Argh, I love and hate this system so much.

Yeah, same, I thought Warstriders gave you a second health bar, Magnitude-style.

I suppose that's now a houserule for my games.

Kyeudo
2011-03-21, 05:26 PM
I was under the impression that when you were in a Warstrider, the Warstrider took damage and you only got injured if it was really severely damaged. But no, it's just a big suit of armor that Piercing still gets through. Argh, I love and hate this system so much.

I've been thinking about adding such a system to my Warstrider fix, but I want to wait until I get the results of some actual testing of the system before I start making major modifications.

Drascin
2011-03-21, 05:39 PM
Look guys. You are obviously confused, and its not your fault. You seem to think that Lunars are meaningfully allowed to effect canon. The fact of the matter is this is fundamentally incorrect. In fact, a cursory glance over 2E fluff reveals that one of its main tenets was in fact that Lunars are incapable of worthwhile action and are [Term for females dogs here] for Solars and unable to do anything on their own because WW apparently hates them.

Anything that might suggest that Lunar can do something on their own or accomplish anything noteworthy on their own virtue is quickly given stealth errata and overwritten, where they are shooed back into the wyld to [Alternate term for sexual intercourse here] animals all day long.

This is why we should ignore most canon having to do with Lunars or rewrite it altogether until it vaguely resembles something befitting Celestial tier Exalted. Because right now? It sure as hell doesn't.

Now, now. It's not quite like that. Lunars are allowed to make contributions.. so long as they die doing it. They can die saving Creation, they can die to protect the party that takes the imperial manse... but always dying. Three brave Changing Moons died to bring you this post. Heroic sacrificing seems to be the only part of Lunarness that doesn't turn you into, as you put it, a [Term for females dogs here].

Annoyed? Who, me? Naaahhhhh.

Tavar
2011-03-21, 08:07 PM
So, more theoretical rules for my Robot game. Warstriders have a separate health level track. This track consists of 5 -0 health levels, 10 -1 health levels, 10 -2 health levels, and 5 -4 health levels. It has dying levels equal to it's artifact rating x3. It does not passively lose health levels.

Also, for each 2 actual levels of damage dealt to the Warstrider, the pilot will suffer 1 Bludgeoning damage, which ignores all soak from armor.

Lochar
2011-03-21, 08:11 PM
Two lethal/aggravated damage equals one bashing on the pilot. Otherwise, it'll be better to actually use bashing damage to roll over and kill the pilot while the warstrider is still semi intact.

Tavar
2011-03-21, 08:43 PM
Well, it'd be based on damage actually rolled, plus the damage would be soaked by stamina as natural. Also, wrap-around damage wouldn't count.

Edit: also, the strider does have an incapacitated level, so if it ever reaches the point that damage wraps around, the warstrider is pretty much worthless.

Jokasti
2011-03-21, 10:30 PM
So, we're coming up on page 50 of this thread again, nearly General Exalted Discussion III time. What do you guys think?

GED III: The Next One Takes Training Time
GED III: We Need More Essence
GED III: He's Rolling How Many Dice?
:smalltongue:

Not until Page 49, bucko.

Re:Lunars- so it needs a rewrite, just like everything else? :smalltongue:

Lochar
2011-03-21, 10:59 PM
More so than most, probably. At least the other castes have a true focus.


But you know? I could almost see Luna setting up her Exalted that way, except giving them a unique background in the means of Evolution, working kinda like the Infernal Past Lives background, except with less/no drawback. "You may have killed me, but you shall never kill US!"

TheCountAlucard
2011-03-21, 11:04 PM
Finally buckled down and obtained Broken-Winged Crane...

And, uh, wow. I was never aware that Phantom Limb could be a viable Exalt build...

Reynard
2011-03-21, 11:06 PM
More so than most, probably. At least the other castes have a true focus.

Everyone forgets the Sidereals.




¬_¬

Jokasti
2011-03-21, 11:14 PM
Finally buckled down and obtained Broken-Winged Crane...

And, uh, wow. I was never aware that Phantom Limb could be a viable Exalt build...
Yeah. Infernals... Yeah.


Everyone forgets the Sidereals.




¬_¬

Nevar forget. When is the errata coming out again?

Lochar
2011-03-21, 11:18 PM
Everyone forgets the Sidereals.




¬_¬

Who? Ever since the Mask got that crack in it, my memory has been like a sieve.

Reynard
2011-03-21, 11:19 PM
Nevar forget. When is the errata coming out again?
Noxday, apparently.


@Lochar: Them starfolk people. I think. Or are those astronomers?

I dunno.

Jokasti
2011-03-21, 11:21 PM
The Little Sister side is the cool side.
And Sidereals are master extreme sport fishermen.

Reynard
2011-03-21, 11:23 PM
The Little Sister side is the cool side.

Little Sister option rocks becuase it's as creepy as all hell and really sad.

Nox option rocks becuase it's hilarious, and also there is incest. But then Venus was involved, and she's a Luna-wannabe.

Jokasti
2011-03-21, 11:30 PM
You must be an
Only child.
Gasp

Tavar
2011-03-22, 12:00 AM
Little Sister? What does this refer too?

Reynard
2011-03-22, 12:12 AM
Little Sister? What does this refer too?

Two options in the Sidereals book, Little Sister and Nox, the Brother.

"Little" Sister is the 6th Maiden, and is the force that keeps the loom running. She's innocent and idealist, but has the various conflicting personalities of the other maidens in her head. They never agree, and recently this has meant she's paralyzed with indecision, and the events currently stirring up the fabric aren't being dealt with properly.

She's also trapped in a small room, somewhere Elsewhere, with no means of escape.



Nox is the older brother of the 5 sisters... and he met an interesting fate. He was loyal to the Primordials. I'll have to crack open the book to get the exact details, but one of the key points was that Venus seduced him for some bizzare reason.

I'm going "because she's Venus."

Tavar
2011-03-22, 12:17 AM
Oh, interesting.

If I remember correctly, Nox was seduced as part of a plan to bring him over to the god's side.

Jokasti
2011-03-22, 12:24 AM
I thought little sister was in the Middle of the Loom of Fate in a room with no way in or out, and no windows or doors.
Or something

Reynard
2011-03-22, 12:27 AM
Oh, interesting.

If I remember correctly, Nox was seduced as part of a plan to bring him over to the god's side.

Well, he ended up being shanked and having his still-live spirit bound to the fabric of the loom, forced to keep it intact.

Kyeudo
2011-03-22, 12:31 AM
Well, he ended up being shanked and having his still-live spirit bound to the fabric of the loom, forced to keep it intact.

That, of course, depends entirely on whether he existed in the first place.

Jokasti
2011-03-22, 12:32 AM
Castrated too.
That was one of the more pleasant things that happened to him actually.

Indon
2011-03-22, 12:46 AM
So, more theoretical rules for my Robot game. Warstriders have a separate health level track. This track consists of 5 -0 health levels, 10 -1 health levels, 10 -2 health levels, and 5 -4 health levels. It has dying levels equal to it's artifact rating x3. It does not passively lose health levels.

Also, for each 2 actual levels of damage dealt to the Warstrider, the pilot will suffer 1 Bludgeoning damage, which ignores all soak from armor.

If commanding a military unit from the front lines carries no health risks unless a hero uses a stunt to attack you personally, I should think that even the most basic warstrider should grant similar immunity to the pilot - you can't hurt the pilot at all without some sort of called shot, at which point you could then transfer some of your damage to the pilot.


But you know? I could almost see Luna setting up her Exalted that way, except giving them a unique background in the means of Evolution, working kinda like the Infernal Past Lives background, except with less/no drawback. "You may have killed me, but you shall never kill US!"

Another possible proposal: The ability to spontaneously learn charms, even to the point of incurring XP debt, in order to save your life - so for instance, if your health levels drop to Dying, and you aren't maxed on Ox-Body yet, you lose the XP and get another bucket of health levels. Kind of maintaining the Lunar theme of power-when-you-most-need-it-and-refuse-to-give-up.

I wonder what it would take for one or more Exalts to create another Incarnae - perhaps to replace an existing one, or for some other interesting reason.

meschlum
2011-03-22, 02:03 AM
For the Lunar who wants to use most Sorcery without bothering to spend the experience for every new spell available...

Get a Ring Grace. Learn Worker's Gift, which has exactly NO drawbacks as you're not a Fair Folk, and gives you gossamer from time to time. Learn Style Improving Spirit. Post November errata, this gives you Style 5.

You now have the ability to perform any Sorcery you like if your Essence is high enough, up to (Ring) times per season. Said Sorcery works just like the real thing so long as it does not affect other beings who might want to resist. So Magma Kraken is probably out, but creating Manses, teleporting, summoning demons that only exist in your imagination, Invulnerable Skin of Bronze without the weight constraints... can all be yours.

And if you want to do it more often, there are ways.

Fortuna
2011-03-22, 02:05 AM
Actally, I quite like the idea of floating charm slots, reassigned at a time, essence and willpower cost, that let Lunars be adaptable. Like, y'know, they're meant to be.

Tavar
2011-03-22, 02:27 AM
If commanding a military unit from the front lines carries no health risks unless a hero uses a stunt to attack you personally, I should think that even the most basic warstrider should grant similar immunity to the pilot - you can't hurt the pilot at all without some sort of called shot, at which point you could then transfer some of your damage to the pilot.
My system does. You can't attack the pilot, only the warstrider. And, the damage thing isn't nearly as bad as it looks. The pilot takes half damage dealt as bashing damage, that can't be soaked by armor, with no minimum. So, your warstrider's hit for 4 levels of damage? You take 2 dice of bashing damage, but unless you have Stamina 1 that's reduced to 0. If you do have 1, it's reduced to 1, and then you roll that one bashing level of damage.

Basically, if you're hit really hard, then you will probably be damaged as well. Otherwise...yeah, not really.

Actally, I quite like the idea of floating charm slots, reassigned at a time, essence and willpower cost, that let Lunars be adaptable. Like, y'know, they're meant to be.
So...Alchemicals. That actually sounds kinda nice. Need to change the system, probably make it take much less time.

Indon
2011-03-22, 08:48 AM
For the Lunar who wants to use most Sorcery without bothering to spend the experience for every new spell available...

Get a Ring Grace. Learn Worker's Gift, which has exactly NO drawbacks as you're not a Fair Folk, and gives you gossamer from time to time. Learn Style Improving Spirit. Post November errata, this gives you Style 5.

You now have the ability to perform any Sorcery you like if your Essence is high enough, up to (Ring) times per season. Said Sorcery works just like the real thing so long as it does not affect other beings who might want to resist. So Magma Kraken is probably out, but creating Manses, teleporting, summoning demons that only exist in your imagination, Invulnerable Skin of Bronze without the weight constraints... can all be yours.

And if you want to do it more often, there are ways.

Huh. So, can any being that gets a Ring grace pull this off? Also, does this ability work in Creation without existential side effects?

Lord_Gareth
2011-03-22, 09:05 AM
Throw Down: The lords of the Neverborn decide that they all hate each other's guts and meet for personal combat. Who is left standing?

Indon
2011-03-22, 09:25 AM
Throw Down: The lords of the Neverborn decide that they all hate each other's guts and meet for personal combat. Who is left standing?

Whoever can eat the most bystanders? They all share the ability to consume the motes of nearby ghosts to replenish their own essence reserves.

The Rose Dragon
2011-03-22, 09:28 AM
OK, just to be sure, by "the lords of the Neverborn", you mean Deathlords, right? Because the Neverborn themselves lend themselves poorly to in-fighting, and they have no metaphysical or social superiors (Oblivion can be considered a very close ally, but it has no power over them).

In that case, I'd bet on either Dowager or Eye and Seven Despairs. They are the only ones who seem to actually care about things (usually in destructive manners), and when they do care, they really do care.

DrakeRaids
2011-03-22, 11:53 AM
In that case, I'd bet on either Dowager or Eye and Seven Despairs. They are the only ones who seem to actually care about things (usually in destructive manners), and when they do care, they really do care.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha-gasp-hahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahah

Seriously though. Fafl has the best bet in straight combat, without a doubt.

Tavar
2011-03-22, 12:24 PM
All the deathlords care about things. It's just, for most of them, those things don't include completing the Neverborn's plans.

Kyeudo
2011-03-22, 12:41 PM
Seriously though. Fafl has the best bet in straight combat, without a doubt.

Given that the Deathlords all have exactly the same Charms plus or minus a few custom Charms and some Sidereal Martial Arts, practically all Sorcery and Necromancy spells from the first two circles, and access to rediculous reserves of motes, a battle between the Deathlords would be closer than you think. My money's actually on the Bhodisatva Anointed By Dark Water, with his scene long perfect defense custom Charm.

meschlum
2011-03-22, 01:20 PM
Huh. So, can any being that gets a Ring grace pull this off? Also, does this ability work in Creation without existential side effects?

You need to be able to use Fair Folk charms, so:

Fair Folk (who can also take Style as a background and skip on Ring)
Lunars
Eclipsoids
Fae-bloods (and possibly Exalted Fae-bloods)

In fact, Fair Folk have the hardest time of it, because you're limited to a number of uses per season equal to your lowest Grace. If you only have one Grace...


Style 5 explicitly gives you the ability to pull off this stuff in Creation. Creation-born directly impacted by the effect can spend wilpower to ignore it, which is why you refrain from attack spells. Or drop half a dozen Magma Krakens on the enemy to deplete their wp reserves.

How does one apply more than 5 Magma Krakens? Manacles of Virtue (on an Oneiromancy, so accessible to any essence user with a Grace) or Unsighlty Rigor Approach (Cup charm) let you enhance your Graces. Such as Ring. Or Heart. So all you need is high Essence, and you're set.

Tavar
2011-03-22, 02:06 PM
Lunars can use fair folk charms?

Sanguine
2011-03-22, 02:08 PM
Lunars can use fair folk charms?

Yep, if they have Graces.

SurlySeraph
2011-03-22, 05:04 PM
Nox is the older brother of the 5 sisters... and he met an interesting fate. He was loyal to the Primordials. I'll have to crack open the book to get the exact details, but one of the key points was that Venus seduced him for some bizzare reason.

I'm going "because she's Venus."

Full story:
It was so they could blackmail him. Then Jupiter had to make him actually care about having that secret exposed so blackmailing him would work. Then Saturn ended his loyalty to the Primordials. (Why didn't they just end his loyalty in the first place?)

But it didn't work. Nox plotted to expose the Incarnas' plan in the hopes that if he did the Primordials would let him take his sisters as a harem, even though he wasn't actually loyal to them anymore. Jupiter figured this out (Why didn't she tell the other Maidens, agree to unf Nox for the duration of the war to get another freaking Incarna on their side, and give him the cold shoulder after they won?) Mercury got him lost so he couldn't go tell the Primordials, and then Mars beat him up. (Why didn't they just get him lost or beat him up in the first place?)
Then Autochthon mindcrushed Nox and duct-taped him to the Loom, because if the Loom was sentient managing Oversight and the Bureau of Destiny would be easier. Because putting a brain-damaged Primordial-loving Incarna directly in charge of the bureau your Exalts work for - and also directly in charge of the thing that runs Fate - is clearly a smart way to reduce your workload.

The Rose Dragon
2011-03-22, 05:06 PM
You made a slight mistake in telling the story. Nox is not brain-damaged. Nox is brain-dead.

SurlySeraph
2011-03-22, 05:14 PM
EDIT: MoEP: Sids, p. 89. "Some might question the wisdom of putting a braindamaged Incarna sympathetic to the Primordials in charge of the Loom of Fate. Nox has never consciously abused his Oversight position to the detriment of Creation..."
Explicitly brain-damaged, and capable of doing things consciously so not brain-dead.


I wonder what it would take for one or more Exalts to create another Incarnae - perhaps to replace an existing one, or for some other interesting reason.

Sidereals have an Astrological Charm, The King Is Dead, that's designed for replacing gods up to the Incarna. They can explicitly make new Astrological charms, so an improved version of it is plausible.
They also have Willing Assumption of Chains, which is broader and gives a god new responsibilities and possibly a new nature, but not significant new powers; Spirit-Shape Companion, which makes a small god; and An End to Darkness, which makes demons into gods.

EDIT: I also missed the Neverborn/ Deathlord fight club question. Interesting question!

Of the Neverborn, He Who Holds in Thrall. All of his Deathlords are competent, and he's reasonable well-known and his tomb relatively accessible because his servants have had a noticeable impact on Creation. Unless the fight is "Who can reach Oblivion first?", in which case he's going to lose.

Of the Deathlords, I'm thinking the Bishop. I'll go through them all to explain why.

The Bishop has Charcoal March of Spiders Style up to the Form. This lets him take 3 actions every time he would normally take one, which is hax. He could, say, use a non-magical flurry with a Rate 5 weapon to make 15 attacks, and because he's a Deathlord he can have each attack be with a high enough dicepool for them all to be perfect-or-die. Or move after an attack to break a flurrybreaker. Most of the other Deathlords have PDs that cost 3m per use, no cheaper than Flickering Wisp Defense. So he can do his 3 full actions per turn while using Flickering Wisp Defense for his Charm activation. Others have 3m perfect parries that don't count as Charm activations, but can't do 3 full actions a turn to wear down their opponent like that.
EDIT: Plus, since FWD lets you teleport up to [Essence] yards, it's a leaping flurrybreaker in addition to a defense. But the 3 actions per turn of CMoS style don't have to be melee actions. He can throw shuriken or Infinite Jade Chakrams instead, and jumping away just means you need to dodge two actions worth of attacks instead of three. And that's if he doesn't use the Abyssal mirror to Elegant Dance of Blade and Bow to switch weapons mid-flurry, in which case it's still 3 actions worth of attacks, minus the attack you dodged. And so if you don't have a way to catch up to him, he can just use FWD to pop out of reach every time you move while pelting your silly Deathlord face with rocks.
He is also working on a CMA called Gentle Embrace Style that's based on Oblivion itself, and "Once codified, it could become one of the deadliest martial arts styles ever invented." That's pretty nice. Also, overpowered with Oblivion-related fluff? a) Damn, I was going to homebrew an SMA about non-existence and now I have to justify why the Bishop doesn't have it. Or just say he does. b) Why wasn't it in Scroll of the Monk?

The Bodhisattva has his scene-length perfect parry, which costs 3m per parry. He also has a 3m perfect social defense, Irresistible Succubus Style for free at will, and good melee. None of those beat having a normal 3m PD plus 15 punches in the face per action.

The Dowager turns into a lion. Yawn.

Eye and Seven has a crossbow for an arm, and a scene-length perfect dodge for 4m per dodge. So he can't out-endurance the Bishop, and seriously come on. He's Eye and Seven Despairs. He's a cowardly loser even by Deathlord standards.

FaFL has Scarlet-Patterned Battlefield Style up to the Form. Without Strategy Arrangement is hax, but the Deathlords all have Ominous Portent Method to negate surprise for free, and the other low-level SPBS Charms are significantly less hax than the low-level CMoS charms. "For five motes, the Lion can render himself perfectly immune to any non-magical source of damage," which I assume is a perfect soak. If that's instant, which it sounds like, it's less efficient than other PDs. If it's action-long, it's nice but it leaves him vulnerable to effects that just need to touch the target to work. It's not enough to stop the Bishop's death-fu.

The Lover wins at social skills, but all Deathlords have Scathing Cynic Method for a perfect defense. Other than that, she is stealthy and S&M-y. She's not going to win.

Masky has the same perfect parry as the Bodhisattva, Juggernaut, and nothing else notable. Having a really big mean horse is not going to decide the fight.

Princess Magnificent has the Umbrella of Discord and knows Dreaming Pearl Courtesan style, though she can't use its capstone charm. Not that she'd want to, because turning into a gazellefish never helps. In any case, being too cute to hurt is not a perfect defense.
She does have a perfect parry that costs 2m per use. I know of no cheaper PD. But she's Princess Birdhat With Face of Adorable. She's not going to win.

The Walker has the same perfect parry as the Mask and the Bodhisattva, and knows Citrine Poxes of Contagion up to the Form. CPoS gives people diseases, has good medical charms, and has Inner Dragon Unbinding (think how Iron Heart Surge is supposed to work). You know what isn't very useful against Deathlords? Disease.

Bishop takes it.

Indon
2011-03-22, 06:28 PM
EDIT: MoEP: Sids, p. 89. "Some might question the wisdom of putting a braindamaged Incarna sympathetic to the Primordials in charge of the Loom of Fate. Nox has never consciously abused his Oversight position to the detriment of Creation..."
Explicitly brain-damaged, and capable of doing things consciously so not brain-dead.

Interesting.

Honestly, though, I'm not liking that interpretation. Autochthon likely had enough of a hand in the creation of the Incarnae - and certainly the Maidens, as he designed Fate - to seamlessly disassemble Nox if required. Furthermore, I don't think he's the jury-rigging type - if the Loom is sentient, I would think that it is sentient of its' own accord.

This leads to an interpretation of Oversight that I think I'd lean towards, though - that the Loom itself is a sentient entity, with opinions and an agenda, and occasionally expresses this.

Jokasti
2011-03-22, 06:41 PM
Seraph: you said at the end that Bodhisattva takes it, but in Bodhisattva's paragraph you said Bishop was better. :smallconfused:
Great analysis though

Tavar
2011-03-22, 06:43 PM
New Exalted Super Robot game opens up! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10609043#post10609043)

Fortuna
2011-03-22, 07:29 PM
So...Alchemicals. That actually sounds kinda nice. Need to change the system, probably make it take much less time.

Not quite. Rather, you can purchase charms normally, and those charms are locked in place. The difference is that you can also buy floating charm slots, which cost more and can be filled with any charm you meet the prerequisites. Alternatively, perhaps they come with higher Essence ratings, so you have one per dot of Essence or something. The preliminary idea was that you could change them all over a single hour for free, a minute for 5m per charm, five ticks for 10m, 1wp per charm, or reflexively for 15m, 1wp per charm. However you implement it, the idea is entirely seperate from the Alchemical charm slots. The idea is not to make you interchangably competent at multiple things, but marginally competent at anything.

SurlySeraph
2011-03-22, 08:22 PM
Seraph: you said at the end that Bodhisattva takes it, but in Bodhisattva's paragraph you said Bishop was better. :smallconfused:
Great analysis though

"Bodhisattva" is a prettier word than Bishop and I have the attention span of a gnat. Fixed.


Honestly, though, I'm not liking that interpretation. Autochthon likely had enough of a hand in the creation of the Incarnae - and certainly the Maidens, as he designed Fate - to seamlessly disassemble Nox if required. Furthermore, I don't think he's the jury-rigging type - if the Loom is sentient, I would think that it is sentient of its' own accord.

This leads to an interpretation of Oversight that I think I'd lean towards, though - that the Loom itself is a sentient entity, with opinions and an agenda, and occasionally expresses this.

Autochthon going back and changing the Loom, and not just changing Nox instead, is almost the least nonsensical part of the Nox story.

TheCountAlucard
2011-03-23, 01:31 AM
So, to my understanding, Whitewall's magical abjurations protect the city by preventing any creatures of darkness from entering without being invited by a true native of Whitewall, yes?

So what's stopping Fair Folk from waltzing in? It's only the unshaped that are creatures of darkness; why did they just merrily dance around the city during the Balorian Crusade? :smallconfused:

Kyeudo
2011-03-23, 02:49 AM
So what's stopping Fair Folk from waltzing in? It's only the unshaped that are creatures of darkness; why did they just merrily dance around the city during the Balorian Crusade? :smallconfused:

Because Exalted's developers couldn't keep straight whether or not the shaped Fair Folk were creatures of darkness or not. Recently, they picked a line and went with it, though I think it retarded that the Unconquered Sun would decide not to label his historical nemeses as Creatures of Darkness. The Fair Folk are what he was made to kill!

The Rose Dragon
2011-03-23, 03:27 AM
So, to my understanding, Whitewall's magical abjurations protect the city by preventing any creatures of darkness from entering without being invited by a true native of Whitewall, yes?

So what's stopping Fair Folk from waltzing in? It's only the unshaped that are creatures of darkness; why did they just merrily dance around the city during the Balorian Crusade? :smallconfused:

Technically, it's ghosts, demons and Fair Folk, plus other creatures of darkness. The ban against Fair Folk is universal.

Also, the Unconquered Sun was made to fight the unshaped, since there were no shaped raksha at the time. The shaped raksha are simply too below his notice to be creatures of darkness.

Yuki Akuma
2011-03-23, 04:07 AM
Interesting.

Honestly, though, I'm not liking that interpretation. Autochthon likely had enough of a hand in the creation of the Incarnae - and certainly the Maidens, as he designed Fate - to seamlessly disassemble Nox if required. Furthermore, I don't think he's the jury-rigging type - if the Loom is sentient, I would think that it is sentient of its' own accord.

This leads to an interpretation of Oversight that I think I'd lean towards, though - that the Loom itself is a sentient entity, with opinions and an agenda, and occasionally expresses this.

Nobody created the Maidens, at least in this timeline. They are omnitemporal and have always existed as soon as someone ever made them in any timeline.

And the Ebon Dragon was the one working on Fate when they appeared and screwed up his plans, anyway.

Indon
2011-03-23, 08:51 AM
Nobody created the Maidens, at least in this timeline. They are omnitemporal and have always existed as soon as someone ever made them in any timeline.

And the Ebon Dragon was the one working on Fate when they appeared and screwed up his plans, anyway.

Wait, really? Where is that detailed?

Tavar
2011-03-23, 09:18 AM
Going out on a limb, Glories of the Most High: Maidens?

Kyeudo
2011-03-23, 09:18 AM
Also, the Unconquered Sun was made to fight the unshaped, since there were no shaped raksha at the time. The shaped raksha are simply too below his notice to be creatures of darkness.

That's like saying "This bug spray was formulated to kill tarantulas, so it won't kill garden spiders." Shaped Fair Folk were showing up long before the Primordial War and all the Unconquered Sun has to do to decide that he gets to do aggravated damage to them would be to say "I hate shaped Fair Folk as well as unshaped Fair Folk".

Morph Bark
2011-03-23, 09:38 AM
Heh. Posted in the first thread only on the first page, now look at me, posting on the almost-last page of the second.

Anyhoo: question relating to armor. A Lunar can have tattoo armor and still wear normal armor. Do the soak ratings stack? What if the Lunar is using Armor-Forming Technique?

Also, does tattoo'd armor's hardness apply? Does it stack with other armor?

Tavar
2011-03-23, 09:51 AM
That's like saying "This bug spray was formulated to kill tarantulas, so it won't kill garden spiders." Shaped Fair Folk were showing up long before the Primordial War and all the Unconquered Sun has to do to decide that he gets to do aggravated damage to them would be to say "I hate shaped Fair Folk as well as unshaped Fair Folk".

Plus the fact that Fey were a primary antagonist of the First age Solars.

I mean, why then are Demons on the list? They weren't created till after the War, and they're minor foes compared to primordials.




Anyhoo: question relating to armor. A Lunar can have tattoo armor and still wear normal armor. Do the soak ratings stack? What if the Lunar is using Armor-Forming Technique?

Also, does tattoo'd armor's hardness apply? Does it stack with other armor?
Soak stacks, and I believe as long as it's moonsilver armor it also works with Armor forming Technique.

Hardness does apply, but it apparently doesn't stack with other armor.

Morph Bark
2011-03-23, 10:07 AM
Soak stacks, and I believe as long as it's moonsilver armor it also works with Armor forming Technique.

Hardness does apply, but it apparently doesn't stack with other armor.

That'll work awesomely for my tanky build then. Thanks!


Oh, and when Essence is committed, and then taken out, do you immediately have access to it again, or do you need to regain the motes first? A page source would be nice on this one, as my friends and I were quite stuck on that.

Tackyhillbillu
2011-03-23, 10:34 AM
So, to my understanding, Whitewall's magical abjurations protect the city by preventing any creatures of darkness from entering without being invited by a true native of Whitewall, yes?

So what's stopping Fair Folk from waltzing in? It's only the unshaped that are creatures of darkness; why did they just merrily dance around the city during the Balorian Crusade? :smallconfused:

Because they promised not to?

Whitewall feeds the Fae Prisoners in order to secure safety for themselves. Fair Folk don't like breaking promises.

Reynard
2011-03-23, 10:40 AM
That'll work awesomely for my tanky build then. Thanks!


Oh, and when Essence is committed, and then taken out, do you immediately have access to it again, or do you need to regain the motes first? A page source would be nice on this one, as my friends and I were quite stuck on that.

It has to regenerate normally.

Kyeudo
2011-03-23, 10:54 AM
I mean, why then are Demons on the list? They weren't created till after the War, and they're minor foes compared to primordials.


The Unconquered Sun declared the Primordials and their spawn to be Creatures of Darkness when the Exalted made their first attack at the start of the Primordial War.

Yuki Akuma
2011-03-23, 11:30 AM
Wait, really? Where is that detailed?

Glories of the Most High: Maidens.

They just appeared when time started. Which was around the time when the Primordials started waking up.

golentan
2011-03-23, 12:26 PM
I thought they appeared well after that, when creation started and the petulant manchildrenprimordials were discussing how to design the gods to keep it running. The maidens showed up and were all like "hey, you created us in the future, so now we're here" and the primordials were weirded out because none of them knew who was responsible.

The Rose Dragon
2011-03-23, 12:32 PM
The Unconquered Sun declared the Primordials and their spawn to be Creatures of Darkness when the Exalted made their first attack at the start of the Primordial War.

Not Primordials. Just the individuals who fell or were imprisoned in the War. Ramethus was not declared a creature of darkness until the Aftershock War got the Unconquered Sun's attention, for example.

meschlum
2011-03-23, 12:33 PM
So, to my understanding, Whitewall's magical abjurations protect the city by preventing any creatures of darkness from entering without being invited by a true native of Whitewall, yes?

So what's stopping Fair Folk from waltzing in? It's only the unshaped that are creatures of darkness; why did they just merrily dance around the city during the Balorian Crusade? :smallconfused:

Because it's rude to completely ignore the utterly useless ward those silly mortals set up?

The defense failed, and the entire population of Whitewall was replaced with nigh-perfect Fair Folk duplicates?

The local Fair Folk hordes were graffitti artists with Mad Skillz, but were undone as every tag they put on Whitewall's wall was white. Thus, in despair, they took up punk rock and landscape gardening, leaving the memory of their defeat behind.

The Fair Folk attacking the city had all sworn an Oath granting them infinite power as long as they took on the aspects of Mr. Ed. Sadly, instead of crushing Whitewall to rubble under the hooves of their Bestial (Talking Horse) Assumption, they took up the tea, crumpets, and maniacal plan habits of the Ebon Dragon. They also got infinite power - aleph null power over an aleph one span, so effectively none at all.

An idiotically overcompetent Warrior created a Breakthrough further in, and the Fair Folk hordes rushing by were really just aspects of an Unshaped invading the land?

A Lunar decided to be useful for a change and drew away the Raksha armies by taking on the form of a delicious steak with extra fries. Unfortunately, all records of this continuity shattering event were lost when the Lunar subsequently died in a freak accident involving a monocole, three pineapples, the Small God of a miniature feather duster and a vat of boiling cheese. Damn those Solar Bond induced flashbacks!


Pick three, give or take four.

Morph Bark
2011-03-23, 01:09 PM
It has to regenerate normally.

Could you, or anyone else, give me a page reference on that?

Jokasti
2011-03-23, 01:23 PM
Could you, or anyone else, give me a page reference on that?

Think of it this way: you've spent the motes, but can't regain them until you've stopped the commitment. So when you stop, they've already been spent, but now you can regain them as per normal.
Also I'm at Disney (In line for Big Thunder Mountain Railroad right now) and was thinking, how would you stat up a rollercoaster.

golentan
2011-03-23, 01:32 PM
Page 184, Sidebar: Committed Essence. "After the charm's effects end, the character can regain those motes normally."

Teln
2011-03-23, 01:33 PM
Because it's rude to completely ignore the utterly useless ward those silly mortals set up?

The defense failed, and the entire population of Whitewall was replaced with nigh-perfect Fair Folk duplicates?


If I ever run a game in the North, I just might have to steal one or both of those.

Drascin
2011-03-23, 02:45 PM
Because it's rude to completely ignore the utterly useless ward those silly mortals set up?

I like this one. It feels very Raksha.

"Wait, couldn't you just enter?"
"Well, yes, but that'd make the ward useless, and this tale of finding a way through it is so entertaining"
"...but you do not need to find a way through it! You can just waltz in!"
"What, after we're in like chapter seven? Are you crazy? What kind of climax is that? We still need to fail at least two times! And Lady Xia Radiant Wings still hasn't finished grooming her brave mortal hero to face the hordes! No, this wouldn't do at all!"
"Buh... wha? What... you... ARGH!" *throws hands up and leaves*

Indon
2011-03-23, 06:18 PM
I like this one. It feels very Raksha.

"Wait, couldn't you just enter?"
"Well, yes, but that'd make the ward useless, and this tale of finding a way through it is so entertaining"
"...but you do not need to find a way through it! You can just waltz in!"
"What, after we're in like chapter seven? Are you crazy? What kind of climax is that? We still need to fail at least two times! And Lady Xia Radiant Wings still hasn't finished grooming her brave mortal hero to face the hordes! No, this wouldn't do at all!"
"Buh... wha? What... you... ARGH!" *throws hands up and leaves*

This will henceforth be how thaumaturgical fae-barriers function in Creation when I run Exalted - by placing a notification at the barrier location notifying the Fae that there is in fact a barrier against them and how they are to react to it. More awesomely described barriers are more effective at keeping fae out!

SurlySeraph
2011-03-23, 08:35 PM
Hey guys, remember the Sidereal with a 320 Feat of Strength I made a while back? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186758) Some wonderful person determined that Feats of Strength lifting weight can be calculated via f(x) = 0.051878 x^4 - 1.556891 x^3 + 21.880641 x^2 - 6.604205x + 87, where x is your Strengh + Athletics total.

So I went on Wolfram Alpha, and determined that that works out to throwing a 464,277,000-pound object. Google tells me 168 lb/ ft^3 is a typical density for stone in a mountain, and I don't have any sourcebook stating the geological composition of Creation. So I'll go with that, and that means a 2,763,553 cubic foot object. Approximating a typical mountain as a cone with equal radius and height, we get a mountain with a 138-foot radius and height. That's more a large hill than a proper mountain, but I guess it's adequate.

Also, another wonderful nerd calculated that Mount Meru weighs at least 2,595,067,746,550 tons. (http://www.patternspider.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5404&view=next) This means you would need a 17,793 Feat of Strength to lift Mount Meru, and a 17,793 to throw it.

Now, I'm not sure we have the technology. The best I can do with an Essence 10 character is 1,280, but it might be possible somehow.

30 Strength + 10 Athletics + 10 Second Excellency +10 Jade Mountain Form +10 Beauty is in the Eye +10 bonus successes from Invisible Motion +10 artifact +6 Prosthetics of Clockwork Elegance +5 Deadly Transformation Armor + 5 Virtue channel + 5 Cooperation + 3 Stunt + 3 Specialties +3 Eye of the First Goat +3 Double-Jointed +2 Jewel of Youthful Suppleness +1 Legendary Strength +1 Strong Back +1 Titan of the Streets = 128, multiplied by Strength of the Mast to 1,280.

Citation/ explanations:
If I'm understanding the prosthetics rules in Wonders of the Lost Age correctly, replacing both arms with prosthetics that each give +1 Strength with that limb in general and +2 Strength to Feats of Strength with that limb specifically is possible. Two arms, so +6.
Deadly Transformation Armor gives +5 to feats of strength.
Invisible Motion is the Sidereal Athletics capstone, and gives you a pool of [Athletics] successes that you can apply to any physical action.
Jade Mountain Form gives you +[Essence] strength. Pretty nice for a TMA.
Titan of the Streets from First Pulse Style gives +1 Strength.
Body of War Meditation from Celestial Monkey Style is poorly worded. As written, you can add +1 Strength with it. However, it seems intended to let you add up to [Essence] Strength, explicitly breaking normal maximums. So I'm going to interpret it the broken way and take another +10.
Merits! Double-Jointed for +3 Athletics, Legendary Strength for +1 Strength, Strong Back for +1.
Beauty is in the Eye is from Kaleidoscopic Border of Whatever, that really high Essence SMA, and adds 2xValor to Strength.
God Ways is from Prismatic Arrangement of Creation Style, and lets you enter the body of something else. I'm going to say a Brass Legionnarre, to start out with 30 Strength; there are problem better options, though.
Oadonel's Codex notes that a 5-dot artifact could add +10 to all Athletics rolls but would be exceptionally boring. Sold!

Tavar
2011-03-23, 08:38 PM
Couldn't, oh, the spell that combines people into one be useful here? Also, perhaps a Warstrider would help. They have massive strength values already.

SurlySeraph
2011-03-23, 09:02 PM
Unity of the Fivefold Fist? Probably, I don't have a copy of the White Treatise.

A Colossus Warstrider has only 20 Strength, less than I can get by merging with a Brass Legionnaire. Merging with a high-Essence Lunar might be ideal, I don't really know how high they can get their Strength.

Teln
2011-03-23, 09:05 PM
Couldn't, oh, the spell that combines people into one be useful here?

I presume you're talking about Unity of the Closed Fist, from the White Treatise? That's a Solar Circle spell and caps at five participants post-errata, so if we assume 5 Siddies and that one is an akuma borrowing a Yozi initiation, that gets us to 64 thou--



• Strength, Dexterity and Stamina equal the
highest possessed by any member of the composite,
plus one dot for each additional character.

Puckernuts, that only gets us to a combined Strength of 1284. Still, that's 4 dots closer than we were before!

EDIT: Another thing, UotCF is a Shaping effect, so a Lunar's moonsilver tattoos won't permit their Lunar to join in this.

Tavar
2011-03-23, 09:14 PM
They can hunt Behemoths, and take on their physical stats. I think they can get pretty darn high.

Reynard
2011-03-23, 09:24 PM
Next thread name: General Exalted Discussion 3: (Not really) Worth 7 BP.

Yuki Akuma
2011-03-23, 09:29 PM
I think it should just be "7 BP".

Alternative title: "Where All The Cool Charms Are".

Tavar
2011-03-23, 09:45 PM
Graceful Crane Stance, Spirit Detecting Glance, among others would like to have a word with you. :smallmad::smallannoyed:

Jokasti
2011-03-23, 10:28 PM
I was thinking of Third Circle demon references but I like the 7 BP one.

Xefas
2011-03-23, 10:51 PM
I will continue my suggestion of "Weddings Are An Act of Villainy" for the thread title. The first title had nothing to do with permanent Essence values, so I see no reason to start a trend to that effect.

And, I mean, what's better than a game mechanic that actively rewards cosmic monsters for the pursuit of polygamy? It's certainly unique.

TheCountAlucard
2011-03-23, 10:56 PM
And, I mean, what's better than a game mechanic that actively rewards cosmic monsters for the pursuit of polygamy? It's certainly unique.Believe it or not, I agree. :smallamused:

Jokasti
2011-03-23, 11:03 PM
I will continue my suggestion of "Weddings Are An Act of Villainy" for the thread title. The first title had nothing to do with permanent Essence values, so I see no reason to start a trend to that effect.

And, I mean, what's better than a game mechanic that actively rewards cosmic monsters for the pursuit of polygamy? It's certainly unique.

I like this suggestion, but it can be used for any number, while a 3-specific title is likely to only be applicable to 3.
Also I wasn't sure how well this thread idea would go off, so I just went with something random at the time.

tonberrian
2011-03-23, 11:14 PM
GED III: That's How Many the No Moons Could Salvage
GED III: Fetich Soul
GED III: Slightly Better Than Average
We Get +3 Dice Thanks To Our GED Specialties

Reynard
2011-03-23, 11:23 PM
GED III: Any higher and we'll need more Flaws.
GED III: The line of mediocrity.

Indon
2011-03-23, 11:27 PM
General Exalted Discussion III: The Next Skill Point Costs Double BP

General Exalted Discussion III: 3 Is Not Very Significant In The System

General Exalted Discussion III: Could Technically Still Be Mortal

General Exalted Discussion III: Mountains Were Made To Be Thrown

Jokasti
2011-03-23, 11:37 PM
GED III: That's How Many the No Moons Could Salvage


General Exalted Discussion III: Mountains Were Made To Be Thrown
I like these, what about a psyche 3e one?

Sanguine
2011-03-23, 11:57 PM
General Exalted Discussion III: Could Technically Still Be Mortal


Except Enlightened Mortals aren't technically mortals no matter what the the name suggests.

Indon
2011-03-24, 12:14 AM
Except Enlightened Mortals aren't technically mortals no matter what the the name suggests.

Not mortals mechanically, but still in-character.

Lix Lorn
2011-03-24, 04:56 AM
I like these, what about a psyche 3e one?
GED III: It's Coming, Honest?

Morph Bark
2011-03-24, 08:53 AM
I like this suggestion, but it can be used for any number, while a 3-specific title is likely to only be applicable to 3.
Also I wasn't sure how well this thread idea would go off, so I just went with something random at the time.

This made me think it should have a reference to love triangles. General Exalted Discussion III: Our Circle Is A Love Triangle?

Otherwise, perhaps General Exalted Discussion III: Any More And You'll Need Bonus Points.

Jokasti
2011-03-24, 09:42 AM
This made me think it should have a reference to love triangles. General Exalted Discussion III: Our Circle Is A Love Triangle?

Otherwise, perhaps General Exalted Discussion III: Any More And You'll Need Bonus Points.

Except Circles are five people, and three needs bonus points.

The Rose Dragon
2011-03-24, 09:47 AM
Except Circles are five people, and three needs bonus points.

Only perfect circles are necessarily five people, and 3-dots needs bonus points only for Essence.

Volthawk
2011-03-24, 09:51 AM
Does Essence used for attuning yourself to artefacts come from your Personal or Peripheral pools?

Tael
2011-03-24, 09:54 AM
Does Essence used for attuning yourself to artefacts come from your Personal or Peripheral pools?

Either, but I don't know if your Anima Flares if it's Peripheral Essense.

The Rose Dragon
2011-03-24, 09:55 AM
Either, but I don't know if your Anima Flares if it's Peripheral Essense.

It does, but it doesn't stay that way, and the anima fades normally.

Jokasti
2011-03-24, 10:01 AM
Only perfect circles are necessarily five people, and 3-dots needs bonus points only for Essence.

Mm. I shouldn't post this early.

Volthawk
2011-03-24, 10:14 AM
It does, but it doesn't stay that way, and the anima fades normally.

Ah, right. Good to know. Thanks, guys. Looks like I'll just have to flare up for a while if I want to use my power armour.

Right, another question: If I have the Essence Gauntlets feature for Celestial Power Armour, do I need to spend motes attuning to the gauntlets as well as the armour (since it says use the statistics of Power Maces, but are still part of the armour, I wasn't too sure)?

Guancyto
2011-03-24, 10:23 AM
Casting a vote for "Weddings are an Act of Villainy." The KoC threads already have their share of Essence jokes, doing so with this thread too would just be redundant.

SurlySeraph
2011-03-24, 10:27 AM
Another vote for Weddings Are An Act of Villainy.


Ah, right. Good to know. Thanks, guys. Looks like I'll just have to flare up for a while if I want to use my power armour.

Right, another question: If I have the Essence Gauntlets feature for Celestial Power Armour, do I need to spend motes attuning to the gauntlets as well as the armour (since it says use the statistics of Power Maces, but are still part of the armour, I wasn't too sure)?

I think you only need to attune to the armor.

The Rose Dragon
2011-03-24, 10:28 AM
Ah, right. Good to know. Thanks, guys. Looks like I'll just have to flare up for a while if I want to use my power armour.

I'll just note that attuning to your armor mid-battle is not a good idea, as it takes 20 minutes to attune to an artifact, during which you have to practice with and handle the artifact. Far better to attune to it once and wear it every day to prevent the attunement lapse.

Indon
2011-03-24, 10:32 AM
I'll just note that attuning to your armor mid-battle is not a good idea, as it takes 20 minutes to attune to an artifact, during which you have to practice with and handle the artifact. Far better to attune to it once and wear it every day to prevent the attunement lapse.

Either that, or be willing to only use the artifact for things you are notified for well in advance.

Weddings are fine with me.

Volthawk
2011-03-24, 10:35 AM
I'll just note that attuning to your armor mid-battle is not a good idea, as it takes 20 minutes to attune to an artifact, during which you have to practice with and handle the artifact. Far better to attune to it once and wear it every day to prevent the attunement lapse.

Yeah, only problem would come if I start failing Fatigue rolls. Then again, I guess I could just grab the Second Excellency for Resistance. CPA is only Fatigue 1, so it'll just cost me 2 motes, and then it's not a problem any more. That would work, right?

The Rose Dragon
2011-03-24, 10:39 AM
I will note that weddings are not an act of villainy. Exquisite Bride Obsession is an Act of Villainy, which does not require a wedding, only marriage and an Intimacy in favor of the marriage.


Yeah, only problem would come if I start failing Fatigue rolls. Then again, I guess I could just grab the Second Excellency for Resistance. CPA is only Fatigue 1, so it'll just cost me 2 motes, and then it's not a problem any more. That would work, right?

You don't have to wear it all the time. Just once per day, to prevent the attunement lapse.

That, or you can get Armored Scout's Invigoration.

Guancyto
2011-03-24, 10:48 AM
But the wedding itself also counts for Exquisite Bride Obsession, just not anything afterward.

The Rose Dragon
2011-03-24, 10:50 AM
But the wedding itself also counts for Exquisite Bride Obsession, just not anything afterward.

Marriage, not necessarily wedding. You can marry your would-be spouse without a wedding, after all.

Guancyto
2011-03-24, 10:54 AM
Only if you're some sort of barbarian. :smalltongue:

I don't think the Ebon Dragon counts common-law marriage, either.

Kyeudo
2011-03-24, 11:09 AM
Out here in Utah, marriages without weddings happen from time to time. Most people out here don't like to advertise that they couldn't have a temple ceremony.

Kris Strife
2011-03-24, 11:39 AM
Only if you're some sort of barbarian. :smalltongue:

I don't think the Ebon Dragon counts common-law marriage, either.

What about Elvis Impersonators?

golentan
2011-03-24, 11:49 AM
I find it funny that both Infernals and Sidereals both have incentives to get involved in horribly dysfunctional marriages. I have a mental image of a Fiend and a Chosen of Serenity both trying to take advantage of the same horrible, horrible relationship for game mechanics reasons, and it. is. amazing.

Jokasti
2011-03-24, 12:09 PM
New thread. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10621999#post10621999)