Literary Question: Walking Down ---- Street, by the ---- River

[Deth Muncher]

So, I've noticed that in many older texts, the authors blank out the roads and towns and pretty much any major name of a place or thing that they didn't themselves create. Why is this? Specifically, I'm reading through Crime and Punishment right now, and it's coming up A LOT, but I remember it in Les Mis too.

[Serpentine]

I suspect it's probably largely to make it seem more "real" - like it's been censored to protect the "real" people involved.
Could be worse. Older translations of the naughtier ancient texts don't translate naughty words, or translate them to something other than English. What is "masturbatio" meant to be?!

[Lady Moreta]

I'm with Serps on the 'make it real' assessment.

I've always thought it to be privacy for the lords & ladies with their names/locations... especially as I think some authors used real people at times.

With the street names I always considered it to be a case of you (the reader) should know the area and consequently don't need the street names spelled out for you.

I've always wondered about it myself and if I wasn't at work right now I'd probably do some research. But I am, so I won't :smallfrown:

[ShadowHunter]

Google yielded several conflicting theories. I would suspect it wasn't necessarily always done for the same reasons, but here's someone discussing its use in Crime and Punishment

http://books.google.com/books?id=bAtLzdTvzJcC&pg=PR34&lpg=PR34&dq=blanking+out+names+in+crime+and+punishment+dost oevsky&source=bl&ots=D0qJT8l4u_&sig=fAa9SpElUiGq0xbk-Dvq0wkYkuo&hl=en&ei=U3I2TfzpB8rqgQfqruHnAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBUQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

[mucat]

I know that convention of blanking out names (or using just the first letter of them) was common among Russian novelists at the time; it wasn't just Dostoevsky. I don't know the reason for sure, but my impression was always the same as Serp's: especially when the story is in the first person, it makes the novel seem like an actual letter written by the protagonist. (Since in a letter about real people, you might abbreviate names in case the letter falls into unexpected hands, or simply because your recipient knows who you're talking about.)

Woody Allen had fun with that convention sometimes:
"Should I marry W? Not if she won't tell me the other letters in her name!"

Hey, speaking of Woody Allen -- if you're reading Dostoevsky now, and if you haven't yet seen the movie Love and Death, then watch it soon. Hilarious satire of those old dark, heavy, depressing Russian novels.

[AsteriskAmp]

I believe this only happens with books in English, all the books I've read in Italian/Spanish/German have the places written down as far as I remember, and it seldom happens in books in English, though I don't know the reason, or if they originally had the names written down, it could also be a case of the type of books I normally read, though I remember my edition of Les Mis having the places written down, and I read that one in English.

[Mikhailangelo]

It is because in Russia, evil communists were already there stealing our freedomz!

[Snow Leopard]

I suspect it's probably largely to make it seem more "real" - like it's been censored to protect the "real" people involved.


I also agree with Serpentine. Moreover, I think this need becomes more important about crimes, it is not like "John is walking down Regent street to buy some carrots at the greengrocer's shop " but "John is walking down Regent street to kill his wife at the greengrocer's shop "

[GolemsVoice]

I think it's also done in the German version of Young Werther's Sorrows, but I might misremember.

[Syka]

I've rarely seen place/personal names ommitted, but I see the date written as 17-- or 18-- or some such all the time...although that might be the era of literature I'm reading (a lot of Austen, Shelley, Stoker, etc). I think I recall a few names being blanked out, but dates are what struck me. Don't ask why it struck me, 'cause I totally don't know. >>

[Fifty-Eyed Fred]

There are also the instances in which a stroke is used to censor swearing and the like, commonly in Victorian novels.

[Cyrion]

I've seen both the names and dates blanked out, and it's typically been used by people writing (more-or-less) in the Victorian era about (more-or-less) contemporary events, even if they're fictional. I've always assumed it was for the "make it more real/protect the innocent" reasons.

[leakingpen]

Very similar to how a lot of people are reffered to as Mr. N-or Mrs. P- .
Its how the newspaper articles were written. Both to protect people, but also to save space, since if its local news, everyone knows what road or river you mean.

[Lady Moreta]

I've rarely seen place/personal names ommitted, but I see the date written as 17-- or 18-- or some such all the time...although that might be the era of literature I'm reading (a lot of Austen, Shelley, Stoker, etc). I think I recall a few names being blanked out, but dates are what struck me. Don't ask why it struck me, 'cause I totally don't know. >>

Austen definitely does the place/personal names thing as well as the dates. Stoker - not so much that I remember, and I only just finished reading Dracula...

[SaintRidley]

It also comes up as a way to pun and preserve the illusion that you're talking about someone else.

Alexander Pope did this a lot, and one of his poems used it in reference to a man called Thomas Shadwell, one of Pope's harshest critics and a really crappy writer.

So in the poem Shadwell's name gets turned into Sh----, which puns on a few things -

Shh, as in quiet so he won't hear us talking about him
S***, as in the quality of his writng

And also lets Pope go "Nope, must be some other Sh---- guy. Wasn't talking about you" if he needs to.