PDA

View Full Version : Can anyone explain Ur-priest?



Scarlet-Devil
2011-01-19, 10:45 PM
Where does the "Ur" come from? What does it mean?

Yukitsu
2011-01-19, 10:51 PM
Where does the "Ur" come from? What does it mean?

Probably comes from this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urreligion

Urpriest
2011-01-19, 10:52 PM
I believe the fluff specifies a civilization of Ur. This is likely inspired by the real-life archeological site (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur) of the same name, and is likely meant to evoke its biblical role as the city that Abraham viewed as blasphemous, as well as a general tower-of-Babel "Man Playing God" feel.

It also may be intended to evoke the idea that the magic they tap is older than the gods themselves, as the prefix ur- is often used to imply ancientness or preexistence.

randomhero00
2011-01-19, 10:53 PM
It's standard German for original, primitive, prototype, etc.

Ur is a German prefix that means "first, prime, original," such as Urinstinkt=primal instinct, Urausgabe=first edition... It has come into English to be used the same way, mostly through academic fields where it is frequently used in technical terms. For example, first century history of Judaism and Christianity we talk about the possibility of an Ur-gospel that was the source of the gospels we now find in the Christian New Testament. As far as I know the word is not related to the name of the ancient Sumerian/Chaldean city of Ur on the Euphrates river, which is from a different linguistic family from the 3rd-2nd millenium B.C.

CubeB
2011-01-19, 10:54 PM
Ur is a prefix meaning "Primitive" or "Original".

In Old Irish, it also means "Over", like "Über" does in German.

So Ur-Priest could mean "Original Priest", which doesn't make much sense.

Or, it could mean "Over-Priest". Which... makes a wee bit more sense.

Ytaker
2011-01-19, 10:55 PM
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Ur-priest

While the vast majority of divine spellcasters gain their powers from a deity, there are some who despise the gods. The ur-priests have learned to siphon off the divine or unholy energies granted by gods to their divine spellcasters, using it for their own needs without giving even lip-service to any god.[1]

So primitive, in that they don't use gods?

randomhero00
2011-01-19, 11:01 PM
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Ur-priest

While the vast majority of divine spellcasters gain their powers from a deity, there are some who despise the gods. The ur-priests have learned to siphon off the divine or unholy energies granted by gods to their divine spellcasters, using it for their own needs without giving even lip-service to any god.[1]

So primitive, in that they don't use gods?

In my games or in my opinion, it is the clerics that create gods in the first place. So the Ur-priests would be the first clerics to have existed. Then someone with talent would have seen their miracles and attributed it to a god, therefore creating that god. Hence how normal clerics are born

Ytaker
2011-01-19, 11:03 PM
The fluff for it implies that they act as parasites and so they require a god to exist already. Ur-priests wouldn't be the original is, clerics who believed in a principle or a god that didn't exist would be the original.

Innis Cabal
2011-01-19, 11:15 PM
In my games or in my opinion, it is the clerics that create gods in the first place. So the Ur-priests would be the first clerics to have existed. Then someone with talent would have seen their miracles and attributed it to a god, therefore creating that god. Hence how normal clerics are born

That doesn't make sense via fluff of the class though, what so ever. Ur is clearly meant to invoke heresy and the like.

Waker
2011-01-19, 11:22 PM
In the Book of Vile Darkness, the first man created rebelled against the gods and attempted to kill them. When the gods destroyed him, a demon came along and brought the man back to life. The descendents of the man (intermingled with demons) now called the Vashar were the creators of the Ur-Priest class. Thus the title could be referring to the fact that they are the First Priest because their race predates humans. Just a thought.

herrhauptmann
2011-01-19, 11:46 PM
The fluff for it implies that they act as parasites and so they require a god to exist already. Ur-priests wouldn't be the original is, clerics who believed in a principle or a god that didn't exist would be the original.

There's an alternative set of fluff, which is detailed in Lost Empires of Faerun. They're priests of dead or missing deities.
Amaunator, Auppenser, Bhaal, Gilgeam, Ibrandul, Leira, Moander, Myrkul, Ramman, Tchazzar. There's a whole bunch more that died just in Faerun like half the Mulhorandi pantheon.


Can anyone explain Ur-priest?
He's this dude on the OotS forums. What more is there to ask :)



http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Ur-priest

While the vast majority of divine spellcasters gain their powers from a deity, there are some who despise the gods. The ur-priests have learned to siphon off the divine or unholy energies granted by gods to their divine spellcasters, using it for their own needs without giving even lip-service to any god.[1]

So primitive, in that they don't use gods?
Perhaps primitive in a definition of 'prmitive: (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/primitive) Not derived from something else; primary or basic.' So their power is primitive, because it's not derived from the gifts of some god.

Ytaker
2011-01-19, 11:58 PM
There's an alternative set of fluff, which is detailed in Lost Empires of Faerun. They're priests of dead or missing deities.
Amaunator, Auppenser, Bhaal, Gilgeam, Ibrandul, Leira, Moander, Myrkul, Ramman, Tchazzar. There's a whole bunch more that died just in Faerun like half the Mulhorandi pantheon.

Yes, which would also rule out them being the progenitors to gods.


Perhaps primitive in a definition of 'prmitive: (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/primitive) Not derived from something else; primary or basic.' So their power is primitive, because it's not derived from the gifts of some god.

They do derive their powers from a god. Just stolen.

I suspect whoever made it up just thought it sounded cool. It sorta works for the dead gods- they are the early priests. Doesn't work so well etymologically as a cleric who steals power.

Urpriest
2011-01-20, 12:05 AM
Yes, which would also rule out them being the progenitors to gods.



They do derive their powers from a god. Just stolen.

I suspect whoever made it up just thought it sounded cool. It sorta works for the dead gods- they are the early priests. Doesn't work so well etymologically as a cleric who steals power.

I think the idea is that in order to steal power from the gods you must understand that that power is interchangeable and independent of any particular god, and such power could be what the Ur refers to. Much like how nobody can interact with quarks except in baryonic form, but you still use Quantum Chromodynamics's quark model to analyze experimental observations of jets.

Safety Sword
2011-01-20, 12:10 AM
I think the idea is that in order to steal power from the gods you must understand that that power is interchangeable and independent of any particular god, and such power could be what the Ur refers to. Much like how nobody can interact with quarks except in baryonic form, but you still use Quantum Chromodynamics's quark model to analyze experimental observations of jets.

I'm sure it's a lot like quantum chromodynamics :smallamused:

Ytaker
2011-01-20, 12:22 AM
I think, according to the fluff, they are stealing the power that individual gods channel to their priests, not taking some interchangable independent power.

dspeyer
2011-01-20, 12:37 AM
Ur can also mean having the essence of something without all the details, or being of the same Platonic form without meeting the technical qualifications. This usage is presumably derived from the "primitive" meaning. It fits the Ur-priest pretty well.

TheWhisper
2011-01-20, 12:39 AM
So primitive, in that they don't use gods?

Or so advanced that they don't use them, depending upon which meaning of the prefix you choose.

KillianHawkeye
2011-01-20, 09:11 AM
I thought the Ur-Priests believed that the divine power didn't come from the gods directly--the gods just took credit for granting it to their followers. The Ur-Priests simply used an older, more primitive method of reaching that power source that's from the time before gods and clerics.

Coidzor
2011-01-20, 09:19 AM
Or so advanced that they don't use them, depending upon which meaning of the prefix you choose.

In English the meaning of old, ancient, and/or primitive is the more common one... and the only form of use I've seen for the prefix. So it's much more likely that's the form they encountered it in and decided to use.

ShriekingDrake
2011-01-20, 09:25 AM
And here I thought Ur-priests were just a little slow on the oratory, as in "Ur . . . . Good ahh morning, all. Welcome ur . . . to this morning's . . . service."

Thurbane
2011-01-20, 08:19 PM
Ur is a prefix meaning "Primitive" or "Original".

In Old Irish, it also means "Over", like "Über" does in German.

So Ur-Priest could mean "Original Priest", which doesn't make much sense.

Or, it could mean "Over-Priest". Which... makes a wee bit more sense.
This explains the Ur-viles in The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant.

Yuki Akuma
2011-01-20, 08:25 PM
I thought the Ur-Priests believed that the divine power didn't come from the gods directly--the gods just took credit for granting it to their followers. The Ur-Priests simply used an older, more primitive method of reaching that power source that's from the time before gods and clerics.

That's the belief of the Athar faction - although the Athar naturally have several Ur-Priests among their ranks, not all Ur-Priests believe this.

Ozymandias
2011-01-20, 10:54 PM
It's a shortened form of "ursine" which means "bearlike".

Yes. Bears. This is why they have to be evil.

dextercorvia
2011-01-20, 11:09 PM
It's a shortened form of "ursine" which means "bearlike".

Yes. Bears. This is why they have to be evil.

I knew it! That's why no DM can bear the class. It's bearly tolerated in a PO discussion.

KillianHawkeye
2011-01-21, 08:40 AM
That's the belief of the Athar faction - although the Athar naturally have several Ur-Priests among their ranks, not all Ur-Priests believe this.

Well I knew it was a thing. Just turned out to be the wrong thing. :smallsigh: