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WarKitty
2011-01-20, 12:55 AM
Need some advice on how to shut down another character. It is a PC. Given that, non-lethal methods would be preferred but aren't strictly required. The character got hit with a helm of opposite alignment and may need a bit of a beating soon. I am aware in-game of the nature of the item and that he has been affected by it. All 3.5 and PF sources allowed except online, setting-specific, and SpC.

My sheet: http://www.dndsheets.net/view.php?id=5875
My wolf's sheet: http://www.dndsheets.net/view.php?id=5877

My opponent's sheet: http://www.dndsheets.net/view.php?id=5867
He has a cheetah animal companion but I don't have a sheet link.

Strategy: Primarily, I wish to be able to shut down ranged attack modes as quickly as possible, and to keep them shut down. He prefers to use his bow but is competent with a sword. I don't have that many hit points. As is probably clear from the sheet, I am a primary caster; I tend to focus on battlefield control.

Notes:
- Assume both characters know the contents of each other's inventory.
- Remember that pathfinder wild shape doesn't provide the scores of the form. I generally prefer air elemental form for the combination of AC bonuses and movement modes.
- If there's a way to create darkness that's penetrable by darkvision, that would help.

Nohwl
2011-01-20, 01:44 AM
cast wind wall?

WarKitty
2011-01-20, 08:40 AM
cast wind wall?

Can't he just walk around that and then shoot me?

TalonDemonKing
2011-01-20, 08:53 AM
Can't view the character sheets at work, but can't you just disjunction the helm? Either that, or get a friend to help you.

Nohwl
2011-01-20, 08:56 AM
you get to shape it any way you want as long as it's continuous (it has to stay vertical though). form a box around yourself.

Coidzor
2011-01-20, 09:10 AM
Can't he just walk around that and then shoot me?

Can't you entangle him while your wolf distracts him?


Can't view the character sheets at work, but can't you just disjunction the helm? Either that, or get a friend to help you.

That's not how Helms of Opposite Alignment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/cursedItems.htm#helmofOppositeAlignment) work. Unless they were nerfed to an incredible level in the update.

The simplest thing, of course, is to get the other PCs to off him and get the guy to roll up a new character since you have no way of fixing him whatsoever without a powerful benefactor that you wouldn't be able to trust anyway.

And he's not able to play his character anyway thanks to the decision of the DM to use such an item on him.

Edit: Smack the DM while you're at it for having the idea in the first place. I mean, it's no deck of many things, like he dumped on you all last time, but clearly positive reinforcement alone is not enough with this guy. :smalleek:

WarKitty
2011-01-20, 01:16 PM
To be fair, I suspect this confrontation would have happened even if he hadn't been changed. He may not have been evil, but he was an arrogant greedy brat.

And coidzor is correct, helms of opposite alignment have an instantaneous effect. The alignment change is permanent regardless of what happens to the helm afterward.

The main issue with spells is that he has about a 50% chance of making any save I throw at him. So I need something that either has a better range than his move speed or a higher chance of getting him locked down.

On a side note, we may be requesting that the DM provide us a way to undo the curse in the near future. Simply because he's the only one that thinks it's a good idea - he considers it a good roleplaying experience for everyone. The rest of us think it's kind of annoying.

Worira
2011-01-20, 01:27 PM
At least he's a humble, charitable villain now.

mootoall
2011-01-20, 01:29 PM
Yeah, wind wall around yourself, Wild Shape to a really small size if you can (do the PF rules regarding not changing scores include size differences?) to avoid being hit, then keep Entangling him and his cheetah, then flamestrike repeatedly.

Coidzor
2011-01-20, 01:34 PM
The main issue with spells is that he has about a 50% chance of making any save I throw at him. So I need something that either has a better range than his move speed or a higher chance of getting him locked down.

What!? *goes to review character sheets*

Ed: Hmm, yeah, entangle might not be the best thing here after all. Something that can hover in place + a well placed wind wall will make it so he can't get at you at all though...

Need something to target his will or fort save. (http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/FindSpell.php)


On a side note, we may be requesting that the DM provide us a way to undo the curse in the near future. Simply because he's the only one that thinks it's a good idea - he considers it a good roleplaying experience for everyone. The rest of us think it's kind of annoying.

The DM or the player thinks it's a good idea? See also: rolled up newspaper, Tycho's Address to Gabe on the Deck of Many Things.

WarKitty
2011-01-20, 01:36 PM
The DM or the player thinks it's a good idea? See also: rolled up newspaper, Tycho's Address to Gabe on the Deck of Many Things.

The DM. I'm going to write that one off as DM not realizing others don't see it that way - we've all decided his wisdom score is around a 7.

Coidzor
2011-01-20, 01:41 PM
The DM. I'm going to write that one off as DM not realizing others don't see it that way - we've all decided his wisdom score is around a 7.

He's already dumped a Deck of Many Things on you. I mean once one could probably just pass off as a naive mistake, but then to drop a helm of opposite alignment into the same campaign? :smalleek: Boy needs a sit down.

Edit: Possible contenders: Affliction: BoED p 89, 3rd level Druid Spell, bestows some affliction on the target

Blinding Beauty: BoED p 92, 4th level Druid, causes blindness



Out of curiosity, what kind of environment are you all in? wintery? dry?

WarKitty
2011-01-20, 01:48 PM
He's already dumped a Deck of Many Things on you. I mean once one could probably just pass off as a naive mistake, but then to drop a helm of opposite alignment into the same campaign? :smalleek: Boy needs a sit down.

I think it was more that he thought the "session of cursed items" would be fun - yes, both of these items were in the same session.

Coidzor
2011-01-20, 01:53 PM
I think it was more that he thought the "session of cursed items" would be fun - yes, both of these items were in the same session.

Wait, so did he only just recently get the helm used on him despite it having been around for months or has he been helm'd for months now?

Continuing: Chill/Heat Metal: Will save, SRD, delayed effect though, and close range.

Circle of Nausea: Book of Vile Darkness on page 88, debuffed or unable to take actions. Druid 2.

Contagion: SRD, touch attack and fort save and Druid 3, so really only viable as a surprise move, such as a sleep attack. Can choose a disease that does strength damage and has a chance for blindness though.

Dessicate: Sandstorm, Druid 2, damages and dehydrates, which might be a debuff.

WarKitty
2011-01-20, 02:01 PM
Wait, so did he only just recently get the helm used on him despite it having been around for months or has he been helm'd for months now?

We've been on hiatus since mid december, scheduled to return in early february. Our school has a little mini semester in january and not all of our players are available until then.

*randomly snuggles coidzor*

Tvtyrant
2011-01-20, 02:27 PM
Well your wolf gets Improved Trip as a racial ability, so you could:
1. Cast Wind Wall to slow down the enemies responses.
2. Cast a strength buff on the wolf companion.
3. Cast entangle on the PC while the wolf trips him.
4. Have the wolf maul him while he is down as you start blasting the cheetah.
5.???
6. Profit!

WarKitty
2011-01-20, 02:43 PM
Well your wolf gets Improved Trip as a racial ability, so you could:
1. Cast Wind Wall to slow down the enemies responses.
2. Cast a strength buff on the wolf companion.
3. Cast entangle on the PC while the wolf trips him.
4. Have the wolf maul him while he is down as you start blasting the cheetah.
5.???
6. Profit!

With the stats the way they are, with the best buff I can cast I would need an 18 or higher to trip.

RaveingRonin
2011-01-20, 02:52 PM
See, the thing is here that everyone is assuming he (the psudo-villain) is aware that he is about to get a beat down. This may be bordering on the not-Good side of Good, but just blackjack (sap) him while he's unconscious i.e. sleeping. Not only can he not retaliate, but you can coup-de-grace with a subdual weapon. Please check with your DM that he will not make him (the villain) take a fort save or die, that would defeat the purpose of the non-lethal damage bit. IF the DM gives the thumbs up, auto hit and auto crit! Make sure you do this AFTER a moderate to hard fight, so your less than stellar STR score won't hurt your efforts to hurt him. ????. Profit.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#coup-de-grace

Alternative -- http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic#TOC-Counterspells
If you are the main healer, let the monsters do your work for you. If someone else takes over healing duties, prepare some Cure spells at every level so that you can stop the heals from reaching the evil ranger. Again, morally ambiguous, but with good timing you should be able to get a monster to knock him into the low (i.e. closer to 0) negatives. Apply a Heal check to stabalize or a Cure Minor Wounds. Zug Zug, jobs done.

Tvtyrant
2011-01-20, 03:10 PM
With the stats the way they are, with the best buff I can cast I would need an 18 or higher to trip.

Hmmmm, good point. The Cheetah is a better tripper anyway.

Okay, so here is my alternative plan:
1. Sleet Storm the Ranger, which will make his to hit plummet.
2. Cast Warp Wood on the Rangers bow (Unless he uses TWF, in which case cast Entangle.)
3. Have your wolf fight the Cheetah; if you can kill the Ranger you can save it.
4. By this time the Ranger should be out of your Sleet Storm and trying to either plunk at you with his ruined bow or walk through the Entanglement to get to you. The issue is he has a lot of HP, more then double yours. So you want to debuff him hard. I suggest casting Summon Swarm on him once he gets out of the Sleet Storm in order to nauseate him. It also does more damage then a direct damage spell.
3.1/2. An alternate strategy is to cast Dominate Animal on the Cheetah and have it and the wolf flank the Ranger. Not sure what its will save is, but if its low enough this could potentially be fight ending.
5. At this point his head should be spinning, as his bow is ruined and he is being prevented from getting into melee. You can either help your wolf kill the cheetah or keep throwing damage at the Ranger; casting Summon Nature's ally II and making a mob of weaklings to flank him would work pretty well.

Coidzor
2011-01-20, 03:32 PM
I suggest casting Summon Swarm on him once he gets out of the Sleet Storm in order to nauseate him. It also does more damage then a direct damage spell.

Good point. If you can limit his movement and prevent him from attacking you, there are swarms you could summon that he simply can't kill, or if he tries, he'll end up hitting himself with his own AoE damage effects.

*scritches behind warkitty's ears*

WarKitty
2011-01-20, 03:37 PM
Ok a few more rules:

(1) No night-time backstabbing or stuff like that. Combination of alignment and not wanting to start something like that. I'm probably not going to start the battle as much as finish it.
(2) I do not want to kill the ranger. I do want to make it clear that I can kill him if he gets out of line. I'm also not opposed to doing lethal until he's bloodied up.
(3) I really doubt any of the rest of the party will get involved. They like me a lot more than I like him. Especially the other casters.

I like the dominate animal idea. It's will should only be a +2. Entangle is good, as it's a level 1 spell and I'm perfectly justified in having multiple copies. Main issue here is he's archery style with melee feats, so I need to avoid both forms of attack. He has a composite bow, so if I can strength drain that might work. I'm also rather good at creating walls if I can get him to stay still long enough.

Coidzor
2011-01-20, 03:50 PM
Most swarms are unlikely to kill him before their summon expires due to their nature, but they can chew off a chunk of HP. And with little ability to have a reprisal for a couple of the varieties.
(2) I do not want to kill the ranger. I do want to make it clear that I can kill him if he gets out of line. I'm also not opposed to doing lethal until he's bloodied up.

If you're trying to intimidate him to keep him in line, then you need others on board for that, and it's more of a preempting of intraparty bloodshed.

Otherwise you're going to have to get rid of the character one way or another...:/ The party dynamic has already been ruined and all. And you can't trust him again after the fight. Or afford to haul him around as a prisoner.


(3) I really doubt any of the rest of the party will get involved. They like me a lot more than I like him. Especially the other casters.

If they don't get involved when someone's trying to kill you, then they don't really like you.

WarKitty
2011-01-20, 03:54 PM
If they don't get involved when someone's trying to kill you, then they don't really like you.

They don't really like him. Most of them either like or are indifferent towards me.

Tvtyrant
2011-01-20, 04:25 PM
Anyway, casting Warp Wood will destroy his bow outright. If you then dominate his animal companion you can just have the companions melee with him while you either summon things or entangle him. Basically your goal is to tie him up and beat on him while he can't move.