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View Full Version : [3.5 Base Class] Jack (Assistance Apprecaited)



Volos
2011-01-20, 05:42 AM
I decided to build this class for a player of mine, or future players in my games. The Jack class combinds the 5th wheel Bard with the already decent Swashbuckler into a Jack-Of-All-Trades sort of class, hense the name. I need your opinion on the power level of the class as well as the functionality of the class features when put together in this current combination. Spellcasting is as a bard, so the spell known list should be the same. As for the class abilites they are easily found in Complete Warrior and Player's Handbook 2. If something about the class is unballanced toward being either too powerful or too weak, please point it out to me.

Jack

"I can do that."
- a Jack shortly after hearing her allies' latest hair brained scheme involving several hundred feet of rope, a crossbow, a guard's uniform, dog snacks, and a bag full of alchemist's fire.

The Jack is a collector of skills and talents. A master of the dueling blade who dabbles in magic while keeping himself open and ready for new experiences. Their name derives from the common phrase, "A Jack of all trades, master of none." but this cliche couldn't be further from the truth. While a Jack may not be as specialized as a Rogue or even a Fighter, what he lacks in percision he makes up for in versitility. A fighter may be able to defeat nearly any foe put before him, but when pressed to be subtle in his actions he is as helpful as a minotaur inside of a magic dish shop.
Adventurers: Jacks may be able to attempt nearly any task, but their knack for odd tallents needs to be practiced if it is to remain useful to them. Many Jacks adventure for this reason alone, finding opprotunites to observe others handle situations in new and unique ways while keeping their own skills sharp. Some Jacks adventure for prestige or fame, enjoying having their personal tales of glory told by bards throughout the land. Some Jack's get impacient and start weaving their own tales of glory. Usually the miriad of skills that a Jack must practice keeps them from writing too epic a ballad.
Characteristics: The Jack backs up his knack for skills with raw combat prowess and finesse as well as magical aptitude and knowledge. Magic is just one more knack that the Jack has picked up along the way. While his spells may not be as powerful as a wizards, he is still able to influence the tide of battle with a well timed cure spell or enchantment. When outside of the dungeon or not in direct mortal peril, the Jack enjoys using his skills to entertain or earn himself a decent amount of coin.
Religion and Background: Olidammara is the obvious god of choice for the average Jack. They are well versed in many skills, they are finesse masters of the dueling blade, and they haveminor magical ability. All traits seen as favorable by Olidammara. Gnome Jacks have been known to worship their patron deity, Garl Glittergold, and some have found themselves as devoted to him as any cleric. Who better to worship than a god of trickery when all your tallent is a bag of tricks? While very rare, some Jacks have come to worship Kord. The god of the sporting arena and strength smiles upon those who train in all things equally, seeing them as great athletes and warriors.
Races: Jacks are most often Humans, half-elves, halflings, or gnomes. Humans are already skilled in so many tallents, that being a Jack comes naturally for them. Likewise, half-elves find it easier to be accepted when they are skilled in the natural tallents of both parents. Halflings and gnomes have been known to walk the path of a Jack, as their small size gives them an edge at staying hidden while they work their knack and their magic on their foes. Dwarves tend to specialize and wear heavier armor and wield bigger weapons, so they almost never become Jacks. Half-Orcs and elves are better suited to other classes and tend to see the Jack as someone who has become exceptional at wasting time studying everything at once.
Other Classes: Jacks get along well with almost anyone, as they see new characters as new ways to learn how to perform their varrious skills. If given the choice a Jack would rather work with other quick, lightly armored characters. Jacks don't get along too well with Bards, as they both seem to be trying to fit into one niche, and two Bards (or two Jacks) is one too many. Jacks get along best with Rogues and Sorcerers, finding both to be facinating in their own way. From the Rogue a Jack can learn how to perform stealthy tasks and may get advice as how to best use their knack on certian difficult skills. From the Sorcerer a Jack can observe the workings of magics, and even though they may be beyond his capablity, he is always inspired by the experience.
Role: The Jack is able to fit any role a party does not already have filled or any role that needs to be expressed more. While an able melee combatant, a Jack doesn't have the hitpoints to go toe to toe with the most terrible of foes a party can face. Luckily he has his selection of spells to aid him as well has his bag of tricks. The Jack is best suited for a supporting role, aiding those who need it while holding his own in most situations.
Alignment: Jacks are almost never lawful, though it has been known to happen. For the most part Jacks are Chaotic and they can range anywhere from the streetwise hero to the skilled villian.

Game Rule Information
Abilities: Charisma determines how powerful a spell a bard can cast, how many spells he can cast per day, and how hard those spells are to resist (see Spells, below). The lightly armored Jack depends on a high Dexterity to keep his Armor Class respectable. Inteligence is nessesary to have enough skill points to be able to use thier Knack ability on 'trained only' skills.
Alignment: Any non-lawful.
Hit Dice: d6

{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special | *0* | 1st | 2nd | 3rd | 4th | 5th | 6th

1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +2 | Bardic Knack, Weapon Finesse, Sneak Attack +1d6 | 2 | - | - | - | - | - | -

2nd | +1 | +0 | +0 | +3 | Grace +1 | 3 | 0 | - | - | - | - | -

3rd | +2 | +1 | +1 | +3 | Insightful Strike | 3 | 1 | - | - | - | - | -

4th | +3 | +1 | +1 | +4 | Improved Knack +1 | 3 | 2 | 0 | - | - | - | -

5th | +3 | +1 | +1 | +4 | Dodge +1, Sneak Attack +2d6 | 3 | 3 | 1 | - | - | - | -

6th | +4 | +2 | +2 | +5 | - | 3 | 3 | 2 | - | - | - | -

7th | +5 | +2 | +2 | +5 | Acrobatic Charge | 3 | 3 | 2 | 0 | - | - | -

8th | +6/+1 | +2 | +2 | +6 | Improved Knack +2 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 1 | - | - | -

9th | +6/+1 | +3 | +3 | +6 | Sneak Attack +3d6 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | - | - | -

10th | +7/+2 | +3 | +3 | +7 | Dodge +2, Improved Flanking | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 0 | - | -

11th | +8/+3 | +3 | +3 | +7 | Grace +2 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 1 | - | -

12th | +9/+4 | +4 | +4 | +8 | Improved Knack +3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | - | -

13th | +9/+4 | +4 | +4 | +8 | Sneak Attack +4d6, Lucky | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 0 | -

14th | +10/+5 | +4 | +4 | +9 | Weakening Critical | 4 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 1 | -

15th | +11/+6/+1 | +5 | +5 | +9 | Dodge +3, Acrobatic Skill Mastery | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | -

16th | +12/+7/+2 | +5 | +5 | +10 | Improved Knack +4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 0

17th | +12/+7/+2 | +5 | +5 | +10 | Sneak Attack +5d6, Slippery Mind | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 1

18th | +13/+8/+3 | +6 | +6 | +11 | - | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 2

19th | +14/+9/+4 | +6 | +6 | +11 | Wounding Critical | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 3

20th | +15/+10/+5 | +6 | +6 | +12 | Improved Knack +5, Dodge +4, Grace +3 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4[/table]

Class Skills: The Jack’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Speak Language (None), Spellcraft (Int), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Magic Device (Cha).

Skill Points per Level: 6+Int Modifier.

Proficiencies: The Jack is proficient in all simple and martial weapons, as well as light armor and bucklers. The Jack can cast arcane spells while wearing light armor and/or using a buckler without incurring Arcane Spell Failure penalties.

Spellcasting:

A Jack casts arcane spells, which are drawn from the bard spell list. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time. To learn or cast a spell, he must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a Jack’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the Jack’s Charisma modifier.

Like other spellcasters, a Jack can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on the table above. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score. When the table indicates that he gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Charisma score for that spell level.

The Jack’s selection of spells is extremely limited. He begins play knowing four 0-level spells of your choice. At most new Jack levels, he gains one or more new spells, as indicated on Table: The Bard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/bard.htm#tableTheBard).

Upon reaching 5th level, and at every third Jack level after that (8th, 11th, and so on), a Jack can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. In effect, he "loses" the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least one level lower than the highest-level spell the Jack can cast. A Jack may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that he gains new spells known for the level.

Improved Knack (Ex): A Jack is able to further his mastery of odd skills and tricks, giving a benifit to his Bardic Knack. When making any skill check, you can use 1/2 his Jack level (rounded up) + 1 in place of the number of ranks he has in the skill. For example, 5th-level Jack would have the equivalent of 4 ranks in Appraise, Balance, Bluff, and so on (but only for the purpose of making skill checks). This ability increases by +1 at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th level. Once per day a Jack can summon up all of his tallent into one amazing feat of skill, when making this skill check a Jack uses his full Jack level + his Improved Knack in place of his ranks for that skill. This particular use of his Bardic Knack allows him to make an untrained skill check as if he were trained in it's use. This only applies to the once per day useage of this ability.

VonDoom
2011-01-20, 02:25 PM
It probably still won't come close to a specialized, strength-based combatant. It looks pretty balanced to me, imo, particularly since it has quite a bit of MAD going on -- a bit of Str for damage, Dex for attacks, Int for skills and damage, Cha for casting and social skills, Con for survivability since this one is probably going to go into combat. The only stat you can afford to skimp out on a little is WIS, and going too low doesn't fit the image of an allrounder.

A way to limit it might be to take away the option of Two-Weapon Fighting. With Int to damage AND Sneak Attack that could be pretty harsh, and two-weapon fighting really is a more specialized route to go and in my opinion doesn't really fit with a 'Jack of All Trades'. Make the character have to fight with a free off-hand for balance.

Gorgondantess
2011-01-20, 02:37 PM
It probably still won't come close to a specialized, strength-based combatant. It looks pretty balanced to me, imo, particularly since it has quite a bit of MAD going on -- a bit of Str for damage, Dex for attacks, Int for skills and damage, Cha for casting and social skills, Con for survivability since this one is probably going to go into combat. The only stat you can afford to skimp out on a little is WIS, and going too low doesn't fit the image of an allrounder.

A way to limit it might be to take away the option of Two-Weapon Fighting. With Int to damage AND Sneak Attack that could be pretty harsh, and two-weapon fighting really is a more specialized route to go and in my opinion doesn't really fit with a 'Jack of All Trades'. Make the character have to fight with a free off-hand for balance.

...What TWF option?:smalltongue:

SanguinePenguin
2011-01-20, 02:46 PM
I think the class is way overpowered. To see this, look at the difference between swashbuckler and jack. In SB, go from best BAB to moderate BAB and drop d10->d6, then add spells, bardic knack and sneak attack, two extra skills and expanded class skills, then you have a jack. I cannot see best->mid BAB and HP drop being equivalent to ALL of that. I think it could work if the swash abilities were spread out, i.e. abilities for Swash 1-14 are spread across levels 1-20.

Volos
2011-01-20, 02:54 PM
Alright, there seems to be a call for spreading the Swashbuckler abilities out, and that sounds reasonable. Adding bardic music, sneak attack, and more skills is making this class a little too powerful. I will make some edits and see what you all think.

Gorgondantess
2011-01-20, 03:01 PM
I think the class is way overpowered. To see this, look at the difference between swashbuckler and jack. In SB, go from best BAB to moderate BAB and drop d10->d6, then add spells, bardic knack and sneak attack, two extra skills and expanded class skills, then you have a jack. I cannot see best->mid BAB and HP drop being equivalent to ALL of that. I think it could work if the swash abilities were spread out, i.e. abilities for Swash 1-14 are spread across levels 1-20.

You do realize that swashbuckler is a tier 5 class? That's like saying warblade is way OP because it gets way more than the fighter, while just losing a few bonus feats.

IcarusWings
2011-01-20, 03:01 PM
I think the class is way overpowered. To see this, look at the difference between swashbuckler and jack. In SB, go from best BAB to moderate BAB and drop d10->d6, then add spells, bardic knack and sneak attack, two extra skills and expanded class skills, then you have a jack. I cannot see best->mid BAB and HP drop being equivalent to ALL of that. I think it could work if the swash abilities were spread out, i.e. abilities for Swash 1-14 are spread across levels 1-20.

To be fair, Swashbuckler is a rather weak class.

Ziegander
2011-01-20, 03:08 PM
It probably still won't come close to a specialized, strength-based combatant. It looks pretty balanced to me, imo, particularly since it has quite a bit of MAD going on -- a bit of Str for damage, Dex for attacks, Int for skills and damage, Cha for casting and social skills, Con for survivability since this one is probably going to go into combat. The only stat you can afford to skimp out on a little is WIS, and going too low doesn't fit the image of an allrounder.

Too much MAD will kill a class. Sure, it makes logical sense for a Jack of All Trades to have well-rounded ability scores, but the game rewards specialization and potency. Which is to say, given two 10th level characters, the first with this ability array (24, 17, 13, 10, 8, 8) and the second with this ability array (18, 18, 17, 17, 16, 16) the first will, in almost every case, be the more effective character.

Since the Bard's casting without the Bardic Music abilities does not make an effective class, you need the class features you've provided to be as effective as Bardic Music can be. Which doesn't seem likely even without taking MAD into account. A Swashbuckler's interesting class features amount to Insightful Strike, Acrobatic Charge, and Improved Flanking. Everything else a Rogue can do, and often better. Improved Flanking isn't really interesting since you can get that and better via feats.

One problem you're going to run into here is in trying to balance this class against the Bard and simultaneously against the Rogue. The Bard is a more powerful class than the Rogue, Tier 3 vs Tier 4, and so trying to balance against the Rogue is always going to pull you down.

EDIT: And dear god, please don't try to balance it against the Swashbuckler.


A way to limit it might be to take away the option of Two-Weapon Fighting. With Int to damage AND Sneak Attack that could be pretty harsh, and two-weapon fighting really is a more specialized route to go and in my opinion doesn't really fit with a 'Jack of All Trades'. Make the character have to fight with a free off-hand for balance.

Well, casting without a free hand is going to be tough without wasting yet another feat. It's probably fine to allow TWF. Especially considering that Intelligence isn't the class's primary attribute you're looking at something like +6 to damage, or 2d6, which is still 3d6 damage short of a Rogue per attack.

Volos
2011-01-20, 03:34 PM
I've moved improved flanking, lucky, and acrobatic skill mastery up a couple or so levels each, to try and keep this class from getting too many abilites and spells all at once. I was concidering increasing the sneak attack dice to come in every 3 levels rather than every 4. It still puts the Jack behind the Rogue but might help. I was also concidering trading out a class ability for a new one of my design.

Improved Knack: A Jack is trained to focus his Bardic Knack ability to such a point that he is able to perform even greater feats of skill. At Xth level, when making a skill check the Jack now uses 1/2 his Jack level (Rounded Up) +1. Example, a 7th level Jack would be able to make skill checks in any skill (aside from 'trained only' skills) as if he had 5 ranks in those skills. (1/2 of 7 rounded up is 4, +1 is 5 ranks)
At Xth level this ability improved to 1/2 his Jack level +2.
Ect.

Gorgondantess
2011-01-20, 04:32 PM
I'd advise Improved Knack at 4, 8, 12, 16 & 20, to fill in the dead levels & also give a decent reason for taking the whole 20 levels of the class.

Volos
2011-01-20, 05:01 PM
I was thinking of adding this to the Improved Knack.

Once per day a Jack can instead add double his Improved Knack bonus to any one skill check. For example, a 9th level Jack normally makes skill checks as if he has 7 ranks in those skills. Using this ability, he could make a skill check as if he had 9 ranks in the skill. This ability can be used an additional time per day at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th level. If a Jack has atleast one remaining use of this ability left, he still uses his Improved Knack bonus when making skill checks. When there are no uses remaining, he cannot use the bonus benifited him from Improved Knack until after he has rested for 8 hours.

Or is that too much?

Gorgondantess
2011-01-20, 06:34 PM
I was thinking of adding this to the Improved Knack.

Once per day a Jack can instead add double his Improved Knack bonus to any one skill check. For example, a 9th level Jack normally makes skill checks as if he has 7 ranks in those skills. Using this ability, he could make a skill check as if he had 9 ranks in the skill. This ability can be used an additional time per day at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th level. If a Jack has atleast one remaining use of this ability left, he still uses his Improved Knack bonus when making skill checks. When there are no uses remaining, he cannot use the bonus benifited him from Improved Knack until after he has rested for 8 hours.

Or is that too much?

To make things less complex: why not just say "once per day he can act as though he had full ranks in a skill under his Bardic Knack."

Volos
2011-01-20, 06:45 PM
To make things less complex: why not just say "once per day he can act as though he had full ranks in a skill under his Bardic Knack."

Done, plus extra.