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Kaww
2011-01-20, 04:24 PM
A player has been bugging me about the cost of this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20060807a) item.

What's your take on it's cost?

All opinions are welcome, but I would like an explanation. I'm not going to post nether mine, nor my players guess on the item's price.

Cruiser1
2011-01-20, 06:43 PM
What's your take on it's cost?The Greater Rod of Wonder (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20060807a) shouldn't have a cost at all. It's a major artifact (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/artifacts.htm). Some of its effects can be seriously abused or have major effects on the entire cosmos. Similar to the Deck of Many things, it can end a campaign or make a character overly powered (or worse than dead). This artifact (like any other) shouldn't be craftable by mortals, and similarly like any other artifact it shouldn't have a listed price. For just some of its godly effects, consider:


65-69: Wielder is affected by the imprisonment spell.
70-73: Day becomes night or night becomes day; the day/night pattern of the planet or plane is permanently offset by half a day.
97-100: Wish (no XP or gold cost).

ericgrau
2011-01-20, 09:05 PM
The standard rod is priced the same as an at-will 2nd level spell, and based on the spells available that seems about right. The uncommon rod contains a lot of 7th spells but you're less likely to get a desirable effect than the standard rod. So I'd peg it at about a 5th level spell or 9x5x2000 = 90,000 gp. Maybe a 6th level spell for 132,000 gp if it turns out to be more frequently useful than I thought.

The rare rod is loaded with 9th level spells, but as pointed out the at will ability can be abused out of combat. Otherwise it only has a 1/3 chance of being useful and thus might be priced as a 7th or 8th level spell. I mean if you removed the broken items pointed out above.

Siosilvar
2011-01-20, 09:15 PM
The standard rod is priced the same as an at-will 2nd level spell, and based on the spells available that seems about right. The uncommon rod contains a lot of 7th spells but you're less likely to get a desirable effect than the standard rod. So I'd peg it at about a 5th level spell or 9x5x2000 = 90,000 gp. Maybe a 6th level spell for 132,000 gp if it turns out to be more frequently useful than I thought.

The rare rod is loaded with 9th level spells, but as pointed out the at will ability can be abused out of combat. Otherwise it only has a 1/3 chance of being useful and thus might be priced as a 7th or 8th level spell. I mean if you removed the broken items pointed out above.

Those three tables are all part of the same rod.


d100; common result on 1-65, uncommon result on 66-95, rare result on 96-100

eggynack
2011-01-20, 11:49 PM
The Greater Rod of Wonder (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20060807a) shouldn't have a cost at all. It's a major artifact (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/artifacts.htm). Some of its effects can be seriously abused or have major effects on the entire cosmos. Similar to the Deck of Many things, it can end a campaign or make a character overly powered (or worse than dead). This artifact (like any other) shouldn't be craftable by mortals, and similarly like any other artifact it shouldn't have a listed price. For just some of its godly effects, consider:


65-69: Wielder is affected by the imprisonment spell.
70-73: Day becomes night or night becomes day; the day/night pattern of the planet or plane is permanently offset by half a day.
97-100: Wish (no XP or gold cost).

Seconded. This thing is like the deck except infinite. The only time I would consider using the greater rod of wonder is if my back were against the wall, and that just isn't enough for the price it would necessitate.

Kaww
2011-01-21, 03:12 AM
The Greater Rod of Wonder (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20060807a) shouldn't have a cost at all. It's a major artifact (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/artifacts.htm). Some of its effects can be seriously abused or have major effects on the entire cosmos. Similar to the Deck of Many things, it can end a campaign or make a character overly powered (or worse than dead). This artifact (like any other) shouldn't be craftable by mortals, and similarly like any other artifact it shouldn't have a listed price. For just some of its godly effects, consider:


65-69: Wielder is affected by the imprisonment spell.
70-73: Day becomes night or night becomes day; the day/night pattern of the planet or plane is permanently offset by half a day.
97-100: Wish (no XP or gold cost).


I know it is OP, the problem was that he was trying to convince me that it should cost no more than 36.000GP, my estimation was ~ 300.000GP.

I will likely give it to him, without rare effects for some 150.000GP.

P.S. I know why the item doesn't have a price. :smallwink:

Tvtyrant
2011-01-21, 03:44 AM
I used the launcher and the first one that came up was a Gate to Azzgarat (Graz'zt's planes). Yeah, I think it is a weee but dangerous.

ericgrau
2011-01-21, 04:35 AM
Those three tables are all part of the same rod.
d100; common result on 1-65, uncommon result on 66-95, rare result on 96-100

Ok then 65% of price given for common result plus 30% of price given for uncommon result plus 5% of price given for rare result. Done. That comes to about 44,000 gp by my estimate. Maybe 60k tops. Sure there are crazy results, but they're so unlikely you can't price the rod based on those alone while ignoring their improbability.

Come to think of it that makes the 3 crazy results posted so uncommon that the rod isn't so bad. Heck you're just as likely to screw yourself as you are to get a wish, so you can't keep popping the rod in hopes of infinite wishes.

Callista
2011-01-21, 07:17 AM
Yup... artifact.

Are the players trying to sell it? If so, I'd suggest making that a plot point rather than just a source of cash. Think: Who, in your campaign world, would want to buy this? What would they use it for? Why do they want it and not some other more reliable item? Could be a good plot hook.

Asheram
2011-01-21, 08:14 AM
Seconded. This thing is like the deck except infinite. The only time I would consider using the greater rod of wonder is if my back were against the wall, and that just isn't enough for the price it would necessitate.

Thirded!
It's part of those things that are "Lost in ancient times" or "Locked up because it's too bloody dangerous to use"

Comet
2011-01-21, 08:26 AM
What's your take on it's cost?


Three kings' ransoms, a continent devoured by flames and the immortal souls of every child born under an ill-fated star for three full years starting from the moment the rod changes hands.

My GP conversion math is a bit rusty, so I'm not much help on that part. Sorry.

Starbuck_II
2011-01-21, 08:34 AM
Ok then 65% of price given for common result plus 30% of price given for uncommon result plus 5% of price given for rare result. Done. That comes to about 44,000 gp by my estimate. Maybe 60k tops. Sure there are crazy results, but they're so unlikely you can't price the rod based on those alone while ignoring their improbability.

Come to think of it that makes the 3 crazy results posted so uncommon that the rod isn't so bad. Heck you're just as likely to screw yourself as you are to get a wish, so you can't keep popping the rod in hopes of infinite wishes.

I would go with 60K: the standard results and uncommon are fine. The rares are more bad than good.

To get a wish you have to roll 96-100 then 96-100.
4/100 x4/100= 16/10000 chance.

Malbordeus
2011-01-21, 08:44 AM
with major artifacts, theres only one of them in existance (usually) so tell him he can have it if he finds the owner and can get it.

the owner is liable to be a demigod or worse. :smallconfused:

Callista
2011-01-21, 08:51 AM
Actually, with the way the rod works, the owner is likely to be dead on some exotic planar destination...

dextercorvia
2011-01-21, 01:30 PM
Does the player in question have access to Augury or other divination magic? If yes, then the cost should be 5xWBL for ECL20.

Kaww
2011-01-21, 01:38 PM
@ dextercorvia: yes and he is a wildmage. :smallsigh:

dextercorvia
2011-01-21, 02:28 PM
Then consider what you would do if he during his downtime uses all of his spells to ask, "If I activate this Rod of Wonder, will X happen?" until he gets a positive answer. Where X, could be the Wish thing, or Gate, or whatever else he wants.

Or, "The next time I activate this Rod of Wonder, will X, happen?"

Dzondo
2011-01-21, 02:34 PM
But I don't need a free wish. I just like chaos, and chaos I will bring...

Kaww
2011-01-21, 02:37 PM
I see you don't know one thing players playing in my games know of - the great wyrm rule.

If you go over the edge a great wyrm dies of a heart attack a mile above you and squishes you when it falls, no save.

dextercorvia
2011-01-21, 02:42 PM
But I don't need a free wish. I just like chaos, and chaos I will bring...

You will get plenty from Random Deflector. Your allies will not appreciate that, especially since in most fights with something worth deflecting, the Party will outnumber the Bad guys.

You also get a Rod of Wonder effect at the cost of a 1st level spell.

ericgrau
2011-01-21, 02:42 PM
Does the player in question have access to Augury or other divination magic? If yes, then the cost should be 5xWBL for ECL20.

One thing I noticed with augury is that the chance of success decreases when you ask a vague question. It would also be reasonable for the DM to lower the chance when it might break things. Or to say that the rod is so random that all auguries return "weal and woe" because either may happen and it is not yet determined.

But that's getting off topic. I don't think any DM actually lets players augury powerful random items like this or a deck of many things or etc.

Dzondo
2011-01-21, 02:48 PM
This is a bit trolling but I have to answer...


You will get plenty from Random Deflector. Your allies will not appreciate that, especially since in most fights with something worth deflecting, the Party will outnumber the Bad guys.

I'm an invisible flyer with fly speed 90 perfect, so I will usualy be away from the party...

jseah
2011-01-21, 03:02 PM
You don't need too much to abuse the heck out of this.

Summon monster something that can talk (lantern archon will do). Get it to spam the thing.

Conditions:
1 potted plant within 30ft. Replace as necessary.
1 tank of water within 30ft. Replace as necessary.
1 any other summon within 30ft. Replace as necessary.
Dimensional Lock over entire testing ground.
At least 900ft away from nearest population.

That should shut off any negative effects by lumping them on disposable minions.
True, the wishes can't be used for stats, but they can be used for money and items. And it's powered by summon spells.

Dimensional Lock needs to last at least 20 rounds after the last effect, best to be permanent.

Claudius Maximus
2011-01-21, 03:19 PM
One thing I noticed with augury is that the chance of success decreases when you ask a vague question. It would also be reasonable for the DM to lower the chance when it might break things. Or to say that the rod is so random that all auguries return "weal and woe" because either may happen and it is not yet determined.

But that's getting off topic. I don't think any DM actually lets players augury powerful random items like this or a deck of many things or etc.

Agreed. It's an Artifact of Chaos. I'd frankly be surprised if mortal magic could predict it.

Starbuck_II
2011-01-21, 04:41 PM
You don't need too much to abuse the heck out of this.

Summon monster something that can talk (lantern archon will do). Get it to spam the thing.

Conditions:
1 potted plant within 30ft. Replace as necessary.
1 tank of water within 30ft. Replace as necessary.
1 any other summon within 30ft. Replace as necessary.
Dimensional Lock over entire testing ground.
At least 900ft away from nearest population.

That should shut off any negative effects by lumping them on disposable minions.
True, the wishes can't be used for stats, but they can be used for money and items. And it's powered by summon spells.

Dimensional Lock needs to last at least 20 rounds after the last effect, best to be permanent.

All Fiendish/Celestial creatures can talk. They have 3 Int after all. They may not speak common though.

senrath
2011-01-21, 04:43 PM
I'd price it at costing exactly 1 copper more than whomever is trying to buy it has available to them, to be recalculated whenever their wealth changes.

Chess435
2011-01-21, 04:47 PM
I would rule about 75,000 gp - or minor artifact. Either way, I'd start making melee attacks with my trusty DMG before I'd let them use augury or the like on it.

Qwertystop
2011-01-22, 05:37 PM
I would say that any divinations used to find out what will happen next would essentially be the following:
Roll to determine what will happen, as per the usual method. The actual effect is delayed until someone actually uses it, but re-divining it will not change the future result.
Therefore, divining only gives an advantage if you have somewhere safe to trigger it in between divinations. You can't spam Augury until you get a yes unless you can send all the "no"s somewhere.

Occasional Sage
2011-01-23, 01:29 AM
I would say that any divinations used to find out what will happen next would essentially be the following:
Roll to determine what will happen, as per the usual method. The actual effect is delayed until someone actually uses it, but re-divining it will not change the future result.
Therefore, divining only gives an advantage if you have somewhere safe to trigger it in between divinations. You can't spam Augury until you get a yes unless you can send all the "no"s somewhere.

Using mortal divinations on an artifact is like asking my two-year-old to predict the winner of the next World Cup; there's a level of sophistication needed for a useful answer which is so lacking that your reply is meaningless.