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Scarlet-Devil
2011-01-20, 08:34 PM
The DC for the will save for witnesses of a GFKs Frightful Attack is 10+GFC level+CHA mod+damage bonus from power attack; does this mean the total damage from power attack (double with two hands, triple with two hands and leap attack etc), or the amount subtracted (which was probably RAI)?

Starbuck_II
2011-01-20, 08:37 PM
The DC for the will save for witnesses of a GFKs Frightful Attack is 10+GFC level+CHA mod+damage bonus from power attack; does this mean the total damage from power attack (double with two hands, triple with two hands and leap attack etc), or the amount subtracted (which was probably RAI)?

Total I believe as that will be the damage from power attack.

Rixx
2011-01-20, 08:39 PM
What an unnecessarily convoluted and poorly thought out design decision!

sonofzeal
2011-01-20, 08:45 PM
...consult your DM?

Scarlet-Devil
2011-01-20, 08:47 PM
What an unnecessarily convoluted and poorly thought out design decision!

That sounds vaguely like sarcasm, but of course it's impossible to tell.

Suffice it to say that it has to be one way or the other, and I highly doubt that the creators intended for the DC to be so high (easily around the 30s region when it can first be achieved at 8th level), but I would like others' opinions on this.

Ragitsu
2011-01-20, 08:57 PM
Isn't "Ghost-faced Killer" also the name of a rap artist?

Scarlet-Devil
2011-01-20, 09:01 PM
Isn't "Ghost-faced Killer" also the name of a rap artist?

It should be if it isn't. :smallwink:

Waker
2011-01-20, 09:05 PM
I just went back and re-read the description, (DC 10 + ghost-faced killer’s class level + ghost-faced killer’s Cha modifier).
Doesn't say anything about the Power Attack factoring in, aside from the need to use it in order to use the ability.
And Ghost-Faced Killer is a member of the Wu Tang Clan.

Scarlet-Devil
2011-01-20, 09:11 PM
I just went back and re-read the description, (DC 10 + ghost-faced killer’s class level + ghost-faced killer’s Cha modifier).
Doesn't say anything about the Power Attack factoring in, aside from the need to use it in order to use the ability.
And Ghost-Faced Killer is a member of the Wu Tang Clan.

Nono- it's the second part of the ability; after the attack, all creatures within 30 feet have to make a different will save or be panicked (or shaken, depending on hit dice), and that one is modified by power attack.

Waker
2011-01-20, 09:48 PM
Ah, somehow that particular line escaped my glance.
(DC 10 + ghost-faced killer’s class level + ghost-faced killer’s Cha modifier +
damage bonus from Power Attack on the frightful attack)
I would say that you only add the number subtracted from your chance to hit were I the DM in the game.

Vangor
2011-01-20, 09:49 PM
They would have to be aware of the potentially ridiculous damage from power attack, what with leap attack being in CAdv as well. Would say this is the total amount of damage done by power attack on the hit, though this is rather crazy. Consider how many bonuses versus fear one could get.

absolmorph
2011-01-20, 09:57 PM
Ah, somehow that particular line escaped my glance.
(DC 10 + ghost-faced killer’s class level + ghost-faced killer’s Cha modifier +
damage bonus from Power Attack on the frightful attack)
I would say that you only add the number subtracted from your chance to hit were I the DM in the game.
But that's the penalty to hit, not the damage bonus.

Waker
2011-01-20, 10:23 PM
Well, as pointed out, it would be child's play to crank the DC up to such a ridiculous level that it would be nigh impossible to save. You can easily meet all the requirements of this class by level 5 and then get access to this ability by taking three levels of this class. If we assume a low cha (no higher than +1) and taking even a modest -3 to hit with power attack the save would be DC 20 (10 + 3 + 1 + 6.) Now 20 isn't a big number, but it could be easily cranked up in conjunction with other tactics. Bear in mind that the target of the original ability has to be subject to a sudden strike, meaning that they are considered flat-footed, encouraging you to take a much heftier penalty on your Power Attack. But what if you use Leap Attack which lets you triple the damage from a Power Attack if you jump/charge the target? It would take almost no effort to get the save DC into the 30-40s.

absolmorph
2011-01-20, 10:28 PM
The thing is, it specifically says the damage bonus. If the damage bonus is increased, then the DC should be increased, even if the to-hit penalty remains the same.

Waker
2011-01-20, 10:33 PM
I acknowledge this, but the OP wanted to know if we thought the skill should be followed RAW or if the RAI was to ignore the bonuses from using a weapon two-handed. My opinion is that the bonus to the DC would be equal to the penalty on attack, whereas you appear to belong to the other school of thought.

absolmorph
2011-01-20, 10:40 PM
I acknowledge this, but the OP wanted to know if we thought the skill should be followed RAW or if the RAI was to ignore the bonuses from using a weapon two-handed. My opinion is that the bonus to the DC would be equal to the penalty on attack, whereas you appear to belong to the other school of thought.
No, they're asking RAW. They noted that the base damage increase (so, the to-hit penalty) is probably what it means RAI, but they're asking a question about RAW.

GoodbyeSoberDay
2011-01-20, 11:49 PM
So, GFK is mediocre most of the time, but once a day, under specific circumstances, he gets to destroy an encounter. Another example of brilliant 3.5 design...

... And yet it's my favorite system. Maybe I'm a masochist.

Scarlet-Devil
2011-01-21, 12:27 AM
So, GFK is mediocre most of the time, but once a day, under specific circumstances, he gets to destroy an encounter. Another example of brilliant 3.5 design...

... And yet it's my favorite system. Maybe I'm a masochist.

Well, if you're a masochist then so am I. :smallamused::smallsigh:

BG
2011-01-21, 01:36 AM
It should be if it isn't. :smallwink:

Ghostface Killa also catches the blast of a hype verse. I don't think that's a class feature for the Ghost-faced Killer PrC.

Rixx
2011-01-21, 02:23 AM
That sounds vaguely like sarcasm, but of course it's impossible to tell.

I assure you, I genuinely think that's a counter-intuitive and poorly defined way to calculate a DC.

For the record, the rap artist is the first thing I think of when I hear "Ghost Face Killer" and I don't know a single thing about him.

BG
2011-01-21, 06:50 PM
I assure you, I genuinely think that's a counter-intuitive and poorly defined way to calculate a DC.

For the record, the rap artist is the first thing I think of when I hear "Ghost Face Killer" and I don't know a single thing about him.

I realize you didn't ask for this, but I'll explain anyway. Ghostface Killah (also known as Tony Starks) took his name from an assassin character in the Kung-Fu film "The Mystery of Chessboxing". Around this time, he got together with the other members of the Wu-Tang Clan and they released "Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers)", which is one of the most influential hip-hop albums of all time.

Of the original Wu-Tang members, Ghostface has been one of the most prolific, releasing studio albums regularly. Here's an example of some of his more recent stuff, working with MF Doom (Ghostface has the second verse). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQakz9-kvfI

I always thought that each Wu-Tang member should have a prestige class (although I recognize that the Ghost-Faced Killer is probably not named after Ghostface Killah, but I can pretend.)