[3.5] Incantatrix's Metamagic Effect and (Su)/Etc. Abilities - What are the limits?

[Endarire]

Metamagic Effect (Su) - Player's Guide to Faerun 62
At 3rd level, an incantatrix can attempt to apply a metamagic feat she possesses to a persistent spell effect that is already in place.

The Questions
1: Can I use a metamagic rod on Metamagic Effect?

2: Can I use Metamagic Effect on a (Su) ability that acts like a spell?

3: Can I use Metamagic Effect on the Travel Domain (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/clericDomains.htm#travelDomain) ability?

4: Can I use Metamagic Effect on the Summon Elemental (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Summon_Elemental) reserve feat? Note the Elemental "acts as if summoned by a summon monster spell."

For our purposes, I assume a Small Elemetal is a L4 spell, a Medium Elemental is a L6 spell, and a Large Elemental is a L8 spell.

I also assume that the reserve feat is a (Su) ability which works as a (Su) ability and as a spell.

5: Can I use Metamagic Effect on a (Su) ability that doesn't act like a spell?

6: Can I use Metamagic Effect on a psionic power, assuming default magic-psionic transparency levels?

7: Can I use Metamagic Effect on a psi-like (Ps) ability?

[NoldorForce]

1. No. Metamagic rods affect spells directly at cast time.

2. Perhaps. Keep in mind that most supernatural abilities that mimic spells have no fixed duration, instead being ongoing effects.

3. No. It's magic, but there's no other similarity to spells.

4. I'd think so, given the text you mentioned.

5. No. Remember, "persistent spell effect".

6. Almost certainly, given transparency.

7. See #6.

[matttrach]

Can you use this ability to cast spells beyond your capability?
IE. can I cast Shapechange, then use it to make that spell persistent?
Do you apply the -1 spell level gained from Improved Metamagic before calculating the spell level?

[Douglas]

Can you use this ability to cast spells beyond your capability?
IE. can I cast Shapechange, then use it to make that spell persistent?
Yes, provided your Spellcraft check is high enough.

Do you apply the -1 spell level gained from Improved Metamagic before calculating the spell level?
Yes, Improved Metamagic and other metamagic cost mitigators do change the Spellcraft DC.

[matttrach]

Would you mind giving a reference on that?
It's not that I don't believe you, but I was under the impression that you can never exceed your maximum spell level. I have a player that I believe is trying to exceed his CR by misusing this ability. I know that the CR system is kind of broke at higher levels, but my other players at the same level are having trouble keeping up because this player raises the party CR too much.

Wouldn't this ability be exactly like the Instant Metamagic ability, just with a spell check?

[Draz74]

Would you mind giving a reference on that?
It's not that I don't believe you, but I was under the impression that you can never exceed your maximum spell level.

Burden of proof is on you -- there is (unfortunately) no such rule, and douglas can't really do anything to prove it to you, short of quoting the entire rules text of all rulebooks. :smalltongue:

Clerics with Divine Metamagic (Persist Spell) can persist Level 1 buffs at Character Level 1. :smallyuk:

[Douglas]

Instant Metamagic got an explicit limit put on it by errata to prevent it from going above what you'd normally be able to do with regard to maximum spell slot level. Cooperative Metamagic and Metamagic Effect have no such clause, and there is no general rule that would prevent it.

It's a case of one rule saying you can do something and no other rules putting limits on it. If a rule says you can do X, and Y is a specific example of X, then you can do Y unless another rule specifically says otherwise - and no rule does.

[Acanous]

in regards to 1, I'd assume that yes, that rod could be applied, assuming you could make the Spellcraft.

Normally, any metamagic has to be applied at or before time of casting. The Incantatrix's ability allowes you to do so Afterward. This would deplete a use from the rod, in my books.