Writing: Originality and Genres

[Muz]

So in an effort to try to get myself out of what I suspect is an unhealthy creative mental space, I'm looking for other perspectives on something I'm currently wrestling with:

Short version: When trying to come up with a fresh idea for a genre fiction novel (fantasy, sci-fi, etc.), where does one draw the line between characteristics that simply classify it AS the genre one is trying to write in, and characteristics that make it highly derivative of other works within the genre (and, thus, unoriginal)?

Longer version: I'm trying to brainstorm ideas for a novel (having finished writing one a bit ago--currently pitching that one to agents, but that's not really important here). As I do so, I'm getting the feeling that I'm sabotaging myself because I keep coming up with ideas and then tossing them out due to some similarities with other books that are out there. On the one hand, it's good to have SOME similarity to popular works (from a marketing perspective, at least), but on the other, I need to make things different enough to where I don't just feel like I'm spitting out another writer's idea with the serial numbers filed off. Are ideas about, for example, elves and magic and warring kingdoms just in keeping with writing in the fantasy genre, or are they overdone and unoriginal? Another example: say you're writing detective fiction. Is a murder, a missing person, or someone coming to a detective's office to hire him/her unoriginal, or are those just standard (and thus forgiveable) tropes that make up the genre itself?

I sometimes feel like I'm an architect trying to design an interesting house, but tossing out my ideas because they use walls, windows, wood, and nails. I think I've gotten into a mindset so overcritical as to be self-destructive. Help meeeee! :smalleek:

So, to bring this rambling post to an end, what would you say is necessary to make genre fiction genre fiction, what are allowable similarities between works by different authors, and what are the areas in which there can/should be unique elements?

...And after that we can discuss the meaning of life. :smallwink:

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I'd say that it's really a false dichotomy. Works of genre fiction tend to be viewed as derivative regardless of what tropes are used. The only way they're not is when the genre elements are hidden in the background. The Time Traveller's Wife, for example. It's a science-fiction story, yes, but those elements are mostly ignored because the story focuses on the relationship between the two characters. Kindred is a sci-fi story too, or maybe fantasy, but it's not treated as such because the core of the story is about racism. If something gets filed under "fantasy and science-fiction" at the bookstore, it's immediately considered samey and uninventive.

[rayne_dragon]

Tropes are not bad. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TropesAreTools)

I think that as a writer it is important to realize that you don't have to be perfectly unique and original all the time. There's nothing wrong with writing a dective novel where someone comes into the office to hire the detective because that's essential to what they do. If someone comes into a detective's office to buy ice cream... well, that's a little absurd. It seems like the key to being a good writer is to know when you need to use a trope and how and when to subvert or invert one. Plus its the particular combination of a myriad of different factors that make one work unique from another your individual choices to follow certain conventions or intentionally discard them and in what order to present them is what makes a work unique; just like how in human beings 99% of DNA is the same, but that 1% provides the near infinite variation in appearance.

[Savannah]

What I'd do is take an existing idea (for example, magic in a fantasy novel) and try to put a new spin on it. Compare the magic in Lord of the Rings (J R R Tolkein), the Abhorsen Trilogy (Garth Nix), Harry Potter (J K Rowling), and the Bartimaeus trilogy (Johnathan Stroud). All magic, but all wildly different in who can use it, how it works, how much is explained in the books, and so on.

Oh, and there's nothing special about the books I picked for examples. They were simply the first 4 relatively well-known fantasy books with magic I saw when looking around my room; you can compare any books you personally know and like :smalltongue:

I guess the ultimate answer is read. Read everything you can get your hands on, both in the genre that you're planning on writing and in other genres. By reading your genre, you'll learn what's overdone (in your personal opinion) as well as get ideas for less common approaches. By reading outside your genre, you'll get ideas for things that haven't been done in your genre that you can bring in to it.

[22Charisma]

Remember, creativity isn't necesarilly coming up with something new. It can also be taking something old and presenting it in a new way. Fantasy isn't exactly fantasy with out elves and magic and sci-fi isn't exactly sci-fi without all those futuristic high tech gadgets.

If you come up with an idea and you feel like it's been done then just tweak it, find a new way to present it, change it. For example, you think up of a story with an old wise wizard and then you realize: It's been done! Don't throw it away, play with the idea, play with the expectations people and you yourself have for the idea. Maybe that old wizard is actually a young boy (a woman) who knows that if they don't disguise themselves as an old man, no one will take them seriously.

If that's not working then take a good long hard look at the idea: Is it a necesary evil for the genre. Like I said, fantasy isn't fantasy without a little magic, and like you said, a house isn't a house with out walls. If it's a necesary evil then you're probably stuck with it, if not then throw it away.

Another thing could be that maybe you're focusing too much on world building. Focus on the characters and come up with unexpected trait combinations. Throw a bunch of traits into a hat, come up with a basic list of characters (i.e. guy 1, guy 2, chick 1, chick 2, king, evil overlord, ect) and then pull x number of traits out of the hat and go down the list in order.

Lastly, maybe you're not seeing the forest for the trees. Sure the wize old wizard might be cliche'd, his goals might be cliche'd, his motivation cliche'd as well, but maybe inspite of all of that you're managing to stick something new and fresh in there somewhere.

Worst case scenario, just write. Maybe the story comes out horrible and it's already been done. But you're bound to get brand new better ideas on the way. :smallsmile:

[thubby]

stop worrying about it. stop trying to make a good story and just write the one in your head.

[valadil]

stop worrying about it. stop trying to make a good story and just write the one in your head.

True that. Whenever I get focused on being original I spend all my time making sure my material is going to be unique and I never get around to writing anything.

I steal like a surgeon. I take the smallest piece I can that is still useful to me. Mix it with pieces of other characters/plots/settings and nobody will be able to tell what your inspiration was. I wouldn't rip off Harry Dresden wholesale, but I'd take his smartass mouth in and attach that to another character in a heartbeat.

[Muz]

Good advice, everyone. A lot of this is stuff I already knew but was having trouble getting myself to listen to when I told...myself. (Great sentence, that. :smallbiggrin: ) It's very helpful to hear it externally as well, so thank you. :smallsmile: