ElderScrolls Anyone? [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Necro_EX

2011-01-22, 05:32 AM

This is actually a big part of why I joined this community. I've been working on this, myself, and found there had been some interest in it here, which is more than I can say for /tg/ or the official Elder Scrolls forums. Specifically, apocalypsePast2 had a thread a while back about just the same thing, so I messaged him and we're trying to get some people organized to make this happen.

Good to see there's plenty of interest. :D

Here's an example of what I've written up by myself:

Bretons
Breton Racial Traits
+2 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom, -2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution. Bretons are intelligent and wise, but clumsy and frail.

Medium: As medium creatures Bretons have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.

Breton base land speed is 30 feet.

Dragon Skin. This supernatural spell-like ability acts as the shield spell, caster level is the Breton's HD.

Resist Magicka. Bretons receive a +2 racial bonus on saves vs. spells and spell-like abilities.

Magical Aptitude. Bretons are naturally gifted in the arcane arts. A Breton character reveives bonus spells as though his intelligence modifier is +1 higher than it actually is.

Automatic Languages: Common (Tamrielic) Bonus Languages: Any. Bretons tend to be studious and are likely to know any language, especially those related to his or her particular area of study.

Favored Class: Wizard. A multiclass Breton's wizard class does not count when determining whether or not he takes an experience point penalty when multiclassing.

Perhaps the favored class should be bard?

Dunmer
Dunmer Racial Traits

+2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution (Female), -2 Charisma (Male): Dunmer are dexterous and agile, but tend to be frail and often have surly attitudes. A Dunmer’s agility makes him naturally better at stealth and archery.

Medium: As medium creatures, Dunmer have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.

Dunmer base land speed is 30 feet.

Resistance to fire 10.

Summon Ancestral Guardian 1/day. Once per day, as a standard action, any Dunmer may summon an Ancestral Guardian. This is a supernatural spell-like ability, provokes attacks of opportunity, and the summon lasts for 1 minute (10 rounds). The Ancestral Guardian defends the Dunmer that summoned it to the best of its ability and can receive commands.

Weapon/Armor Proficiency: All Dunmer are naturally proficient with the longsword, dagger, shortsword, shortbow, longbow, and light armor.

+2 racial bonus on spot and listen checks, and +2 on sense motive checks. Dunmer have fine senses, as all elves do, and their natural tendency toward paranoia makes them excellent judges of intent.

Favored Class:Wizard. A multiclass Dunmer’s wizard class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing. Wizardry comes natural to Dunmer, especially ecokation and conjuration.

Actually, considering how well-rounded they are, perhaps something like Duskblade for their favored class? Also, the gender difference is based on how they're stat-ed in-game, that's not me being sexist or anything.

Suthay-Raht Khajiit (The Morrowind ones)
Khajiit(Suthay-Raht) Racial Traits

+2 Dexterity, -2 Wisdom. Suthay-Raht Khajiit are nimble and agile like many cats, however they also tend to be curious and naive to a fault like many cats.

Medium: As medium creatures Suthay-Raht have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.

Khajiit (Suthay-Raht) base land speed is 30 feet.

Eye of Fear 1/day. This supernatural spell-like ability allows the Khajiit to demoralize a target humanoid within 30 feet (Must have clear line of sight). This effect confers a -2 penalty to all attack rolls and skill checks made for the duration of the encounter. This is a fear effect and a will save DC 10+1/2 the Khajiit's HD + Charisma modifier negates the effect.

Darkvision 120 feet.

+4 racial bonus to jump checks, +2 racial bonus to tumble, hide, move silently, spot, listen, and open lock checks, tumble is always a class skill for Suthay-Raht Khajiit. Suthay-Raht Khajiit have many feline characteristics such as amazing dexterity and a natural stealthiness.

Claw natural weapons.A Suthay-Raht is considered armed even when unarmed, and deals 1d4 damage with a successful unarmed attack

Weapon/armor proficiency: Khajiit are well armed with only their claws, but many are also trained with use of the dagger. Khajiit are automatically proficient with the dagger, kukri, short sword, and light armor.

Automatic languages: Common (Tamrielic) and Khajiiti

Favored Class: Rogue. A multiclass Khajiit's rogue class does not count when determining whether or not she takes an experience point penalty when multiclassing.

The Suthay-Raht were the ones in Morrowind, for reference. I forgot the name of their tongue, though...

I have all the races (only 1 breed of Khajiit/Argonian, though) stat-ed out this way, and a handful of artifacts/unique magic items written up. Of course, we'll have to decide on a standard for such things, collectively.

EDIT: On the subject of classes, I suggest sticking to the 3.5 standard. It's been proven to work fairly well and it's a model that is easily worked with. For example, have a prestige class or three:

Hircine Huntsman
Hircine Huntsman

Hircine Huntsmen are worshippers of the Daedric prince Hircine, god of the hunt, father of the manbeasts who seek to emulate his skill and cunning in the hunt. Hircine Huntsmen stalk their prey through the harshest perils the elements can throw at them and almost invariably never leave the hunt without a fresh pelt.
Particularly evil Hircine Huntsmen may become stealthy and deadly murderers, and good Hircine Huntsmen make great manhunters and trackers. Regardless of alignment, Hircine Huntsmen are stubborn, ruthless, and relentless in the hunt.
Rangers, scouts, and fighters make natural Hircine Huntsmen, but rogues and barbarians may also seek this prestige class. Other classes rarely, if ever, take up this mantle.

Hit Die: d8

Requirements: To qualify to become a Hircine Huntsman, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Base Attack Bonus: +6
Skills: Craft (Bowmaking) or Craft (Trapmaking) 4 ranks, Knowledge (Nature) 4 ranks, Knowledge (Religion) 4 ranks, Survival 8 ranks.
Feats: Weapon focus (short bow, longbow, or the composite version of either), Track, and Point-Blank Shot

Class Skills
The Hircine Huntsman’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Nature) (Int), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis)
Skill Points at Each Level: 4+int modifier.

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Hircine Huntsman.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The Hircine Huntsman gains no weapon or armor proficiencies.

Ranged Precision(EX): As a standard action, a Hircine Huntsman may make a single precisely aimed attack with a ranged weapon, dealing an extra 1d8 points of damage if the attack hits. When making a ranged precision attack, a huntsman must be within 30 feet of his target. A huntsman’s ranged precision attack only works against living creatures with discernible anatomies. Any creature that is immune to critical hits (including undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures) is not vulnerable to a ranged precision attack, and any item or ability that protects a creature from critical hits (such as armor with the fortification special ability) also protects a creature from the extra damage. Unlike with a rogue’s sneak attack, a huntsman’s target does not have to be flat-footed or denied its Dexterity bonus, but if it is, the huntsman’s extra precision damage stacks with sneak attack damage. Treat the huntsman’s ranged precision attack as a sneak attack in all other ways.

The huntsman’s bonus to damage on ranged precision attacks increases by +1d8 every two levels.

A huntsman can only use this ability with a ranged weapon for which he has taken the Weapon Focus feat.

Poison Use: Beginning at 2nd level the Hircine Huntsmen develops an understanding of various poisons and becomes skilled in the employment of poisons to take down larger game. When applying poison to a weapon a Hircine Huntsman has no risk of accidentally poisoning himself.

Staggering Shot(EX): At 8th level a Hircine Huntsman gains the ability to stagger an opponent with a ranged precision attack. This effect limits the target to a single action for 1 round if the ranged precision attack deals damage. This effect may be resisted if the target makes a Fort save (DC is the damage dealt).

Greater Weapon Focus (EX): At 4th level, a Hircine Huntsman gains the Greater Weapon Focus feat for a ranged weapon which he has already selected the Weapon Focus feat, regardless of whether or not the huntsman has attained 8th level as a fighter.

Sharp-Shooting: At 6th level, huntsman gains the Sharp-Shooting feat even if he does not meet the prerequisites.
Extended Precision(SU): A 10th-level Hircine Huntsman’s senses have been sharpened and honed to near perfection. He may now make ranged precision attacks at a range of up to 60 feet.

Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
1st +1 +2 +2 +0 Ranged precision +1d8
2nd +2 +3 +3 +0 Poison Use
3rd +3 +3 +3 +1 Ranged precision +2d8
4th +4 +4 +4 +1 Greater Weapon Focus
5th +5 +4 +4 +1 Ranged precision +3d8
6th +6 +5 +5 +2 Sharp-Shooting
7th +7 +5 +5 +2 Ranged Precision +4d8
8th +8 +6 +6 +2 Staggering shot
9th +9 +6 +6 +3 Ranged precision +5d8
10th +10 +7 +7 +3 Extended precision

Manic
Manic
Those summon or otherwise communicate with Sheogorrath may seek to understand his insanity. Those who pursue this knowledge are themselves driven mad. With mad determination manics delve into the abyss of madness inside Sheogorrath’s godhead. Those that make it out of this ordeal alive often become the heads of cults of the dam dog. These manics exist to spread insanity throughout Nirn and can be found almost anywhere in Tamriel.
NPC manics may be encountered solitarily or en masse. Individual manics might be found anywhere, and their insanity is often more subtle; these manics might simply be unnaturally paranoid after delving into Sheogorrath’s insanity. Encountered in groups, a cult of Sheogorrath may be led by a single manic or made entirely or in part of a cabbal of manics.

Hit Die: d6

Requirements: To qualify to become a manic, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Alignment: Any.
Skills: Knowledge (the planes) or Knowledge (Religion) 8 ranks.
Feat: Augment Summoning.
Spells: Able to cast at least one summoning spell of 3rd level or higher.
Special: Must have summoned Sheogorrath on his summoning date, traveled to the isles, or otherwise communicated with madness.

Class Skills:
The manic’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Spot(Wis).

Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + int modifier

Class Features
All the following are class features of the manic prestige class.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Manics gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.

Spells per day/Spells Known: At each level, a manic gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if she had also gained a level in a spellcasting class to which she belonged begore adding the prestige class level. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (improved chance of turning or destroying undead, a bonus feat, and so on(. If she had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a manic, she must decide to which class to add each level for the purpose of determining spells per day and spells known.

Familiar Abilities: Levels of manic stack with levels of any class that provide access to a gamiliar. Add levels from this class and the class that granted access to the familiar together and refer to the table on page 53 of the player’s handbook to determine the familiar’s natural armor, intelligence, and special abilities. If a character had levels in multiple classes that grant access to a familiar before becoming a manic, she must decide to which class to add each level for the purpose of determining the abilities of her familiar. This ability does not grant a manic a familiar if she does not already have one.

Mad Summoning: Any creature summoned by a manic gains the mad template in addition to any templates (celestial, fiendish) that it may already have.

Sheogorrath’s Blessing(EX): A manic who attains 2nd level gains a +1 insight bonus on all saving throws, but she permanently loses 2 points of Wisdom.

Metamagic Secret: A manic listens to the maddening whispers of entities of pure and true insanity. At 3rd and again at 7th level, she can choose any metamagic feat as a bonus feat.

Madness(EX): At 4th level, a manic’s insanity begins to consume her. She permanently loses 2 points of Wisdom, but gains 2 points of Charisma as her sanity sheds off and her force of personality increases.

Mad Familiar: Beginning at 5th level, a manic’s familiar, if any, gains the mad template in addition to the powers and abilities normal for a familiar of the appropriate level. This effect does not replace an existing familiar – the familiar has been slowly taking on insanity much like its manic master.

Insanity Defined: At 6th level a manic’s insanity fully defines itself, manifesting in one of several ways:

Mania: A manic with mania is erratic as their mind races in every direction. Mania negatively affects the ability of the manic to concentrate, but makes its moves unpredictable. A permanent -4 on all concentration checks made by the manic is applied, and the save DC of all the manic’s spells increases by +2.

Paranoia: A paranoid manic believes everyone is out to get her, and she may just be right. Paranoia grants the manic +1 to all saving throws, +2 to all bluff, diplomacy, gather information, intimidate, and sense motive checks.

Depression: A Depressed manic suffers from crushing depression, but this hardship grants the manic an unnatural fortitude. Depression grants the manic +4Con, and drops her base land speed by 5ft, base flight speed (if any) by 10 ft., and reduces her will saves by -1.

Obsessive: An obsessive manic becomes horribly fixated on something. This manifests in something of an addiction to the object of the manic’s obsession. Obsession grants the manic a +2 morale bonus to attack rolls and all skill checks made while in possession of her obsession, but she suffers a -2 to attack rolls and all skill checks if she does not possess her obsession. The object of the manic’s obsession is decided by a d% roll by the DM on the table found below.

Deeper Madness (EX): At 8th level, a manic’s madness further possesses her. She loses another 2 points of Wisdom and gains a further 2 points of Charisma as her mind continues to split and her insanity becomes even more forceful. At this point, she may swap her Charisma modifier for her Wisdom modifier on her will saves as well as for spellcasting (if she possessed levels in a wisdom-based spellcasting class before taking levels in manic).

Solid Madness(SU): At 9th level, a manic gains a +4 insight bonus on saves made to resist mind-effecting spells and spell-like abilities.

True Madness (SU): At 10th level, a manic gains the Mad template

Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Spellcasting
1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Familiar abilities, mad summoning +1 level of
existing spellcasting class

2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 Sheogorrath’s blessing +1 level of existing spellcasting class

3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 Metamagic secret +1 level of existing spellcasting class

4th +2 +1 +1 +4 Madness +1 level of existing spellcasting class

5th +2 +1 +1 +4 Mad familiar +1 level of existing spellcasting class

6th +3 +2 +2 +5 Insanity defined +1 level of existing spellcasting class

7th +3 +2 +2 +5 Metamagic secret +1 level of existing spellcasting class

8th +4 +2 +2 +6 Deeper madness +1 level of existing spellcasting class

9th +4 +3 +3 +6 Solid madness +1 level of existing spellcasting class

10th +5 +3 +3 +7 True madness +1 level of existing spellcasting class

Dark Brotherhood Assassin
Dark Brotherhood Assassin
Dark Brotherhood Assassins are masters of stealth and deadly arts. They also have a penchant for infiltration and disguise. Operating in cells throughout all of Tamriel the Dark Brotherhood Assassins have a massive information and supply network backing their every action. With such resources Dark Brotherhood Assassins are a terrifying force of death and entropy.
Evil rogue, ninja, scout, and ranger characters naturally gravitate toward the life of an assassin, a hired blade, agent of vengeance, or scion of entropy. Fighters, blackguards, and barbarians make capable warrior-assassins in the employ of the Dark Brotherhood. Casters that find themselves in service of the Dark Brotherhood can make of themselves some of the most deadly assassins using magic to slay with uninterrupted impunity.
Not all members of the Dark Brotherhood necessarily need take the Dark Brotherhood Assassin prestige class, but it does offer class features that are most useful for the archetypal assassin skulking in the shadows with a blade carrying certain death.

Hit Die: d6

Requirements
To qualify to become a Dark Brotherhood Assassin a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Alignment: Any evil, typically lawful evil.
Skills: Hide 8 ranks, Move Silently 8 ranks, Bluff, Disguise, or Gather Information 4 ranks.
Special: The character must be a member of the Dark Brotherhood, journeyman rank.

Class Skills
The Dark Brotherhood Assassin’s class skills (and the key ability for each) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex)

Skill points at each level: 6+int modifier

Class Features
All of the following are Class Features of the Dark Brotherhood Assassin Prestige Class.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Dark Brotherhood Assassin trains in the use of armaments suitable for stealth and sneak attacks. They are proficient in the use of the crossbow (hand, light, and heavy), dagger, kukri, katar, dart, rapier, sap, shortbow (normal and composite), bolas, throwing star, and short sword. They are proficient with light armor, but not shields.

Sneak Attack: This is exactly like the rogue ability of the same name. The extra damage dealt increases by +1d6 every other level. If a Dark Brotherhood assassin gets a sneak attack bonus from another source, the bonuses on damage stack.

Death Attack: If an assassin studies his victim for 3 rounds and then makes a sneak attack with a melee weapon that successfully deals damage, the sneak attack has the additional effect of possibly either paralyzing or killing the target (assassin’s choice). While studying the victim, the assassin can undertake other actions so long as his attention stays focused on the target and target does not detect the assassin or recognize the assassin as an enemy. If the victim of such an attack fails a Fortitude save (DC 10 + Dark Brotherhood Assassin’s class level + the assassin’s int modifier) against the kill effect, she dies. If the saving throw fails against the paralysis effect, the victim’s mind and body become enervated, rendering her helpless and unable to act for 1d6 rounds plus 1 round per level of the assassin. If the victim’s saving throw succeeds, the attack is just a normal sneak attack. Once the assassin has completed the 3 rounds of study, he must make the death attack within the next 3 rounds. If a death attack is attempted and fails (the victim makes her save) or if the assassin does not launch the attack within 3 rounds of completing the study, 3 new rounds of study are required before he can attempt another death attack.

Poison Use: Dark Brotherhood Assassins are trained in the use of poison and never risk accidentally poisoning themselves when applying poison to a blade.

Save Bonus Against Poison: Dark Brotherhood Assassins trail with poisons of all types and slowly grow more and more resistant to their effects. This is reflected by a natural saving throw bonus to all poisons gained at 2nd level that increases by +1 for every two additional levels the assassin gains.

Uncanny Dodge (EX): Starting at 2nd level, a Dark Brotherhood Assassin gains the ability to react to danger before his senses would normally allow him to even be aware of it. He retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (If any) regardless of being caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. ( He still loses any Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.)
If a character gains uncanny dodge from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below).

Improved Uncanny Dodge (EX): At 5th level, a Dark Brotherhood assassin can no longer be flanked, since he can react to opponents on opposite sides of him as easily as he can react to a single attacker. This defense denies rogues the ability to use flank attacks to sneak attack the assassin. The exception to this defense is that a rogue at least four levels higher than the assassin can flank him (and thus sneak attack him).
If a character gains uncanny dodge (see above) from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge, and the levels from those classes stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character.

Hide in Plain Sight(Su): At 8th level, a Dark Brotherhood Assassin can use the hide skill even while being observed. As long as he is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, an assassin can hide himself from view in the open without having anything to actually hide behind. He cannot, however, hide in his own shadow.

Dexterity Bonus: At 6th level a Dark Brotherhood assassin’s dexterity permanently increases by +2. This represents the rigorous training the assassin undergoes to build his reflexes and ability to hide.

Improved Death Attack: Starting at 4th level a Dark Brotherhood Assassin can make a death attack even with a ranged attack within 30 ft. The save to resist the death attack is also increased by +4 if made with a melee weapon.

Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
1st +1 +0 +2 +0 Sneak attack +1d6, poison use
2nd +2 +0 +3 +0 +1 save against poison, uncanny dodge
3rd +3 +1 +3 +1 Sneak attack+2d6
4th +4 +1 +4 +1 +2 save against poison, Improved death attack
5th +5 +1 +4 +1 Improved uncanny dodge, sneak attack+3d6
6th +6 +2 +5 +2 +3 save against poison, Dex+2
7th +7 +2 +5 +2 Sneak attack +4d6
8th +8 +2 +6 +2 +4save against poison, hid in plain sight
9th +9 +3 +6 +3 Sneak attack +5d6
10th +10 +3 +7 +3 +5 save against poison

I also have started on a Morag Tong prestige class. I think it'd be nice to have a prestige class for all the factions, it would help to solidify the world, imo.

Also, here's the template called for by the Manic:
Mad Creature
Creatures touched by Sheogorrath’s insanity are driven mad beyond the comprehension of the sane. Such creatures may manifest this madness in the form of mania or depression, paranoia or any other psychosis. Mad creatures are not simply insane, they are touched by Sheogorrath and are supernaturally resilient and their very physical being displays some hint of their insanity, subtle or otherwise.

Creating a Mad Creature
“Mad” is an acquired template that can be added to any sentient creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature).
A mad creature uses all the base creature’s statistics and abilities except as noted here. Even though the creature’s type changes, do not recalculate Hit Dice, bas attack bonus, or skill points.
Size and Type: The creature’s type and size are unchanged.
Special Attacks: A mad creature retains all the special attacks of the base creature and also gains the following attack.
Mad Strike (SU): Thrice per day, a mad creature can apply its charisma modifier, if any, to its attack and damage rolls.
Special Qualities: A mad creature retains all the special qualities of the base creature and also gains the following special qualities:
Damage Reduction: A mad creature gains damage reduction 5/- This is a part of the creature’s insanity manifested by a lack of concern for its physical being. The creature loses this quality if it is asleep or otherwise unconscious.
Mad Appearance(SU): A mad creature’s body is affected by its insanity. This may manifest in many ways, a deranged look in the eyes, an unnerving grin, odd coloration, etc… This quality grants the creature a +2 on intimidate checks made against creatures without this template.
Psychotic Death Throes(SU): A mad creature suffers erratic spasms while its hp is reduced to zero or below. Any creature that witnesses these death throes must make a will save (DC 10+the creatures charisma modifier) or be shaken for 1d6 rounds.
Abilities: Wis -4, Cha +6
Challenge Rating/Level Adjustment: +1

Volthawk

2011-01-22, 05:40 AM

Well, here's some stuff I found:

- Birthsigns, Races, Equipment and Goblins (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156253)

- Argonians (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134893)(by me, made pretty near to when I started gaming)

- Suggestions on what to do with the races, by modifying existing races. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8197135&postcount=4)

Also, I seem to remember someone doing a game in the setting...

Necro_EX

2011-01-22, 06:10 AM

If everyone's up for getting this organized, I have some suggestions as to the way we go about it. I just think it'll go a lot more smoothly with some organization, so we don't just end up with a big vat of homebrewed rules with no real centre or control, y'know?

I suggest maybe breaking into groups to handle certain tasks. Such as a group to do monsters, a group to write up classes, a group to work out special materials/unique items? That way everyone's focused on one aspect at a time which will mean they'll be putting forth all their effort into making that one aspect work, without having to worry about also writing up 5 other, unrelated things? If we use 3.5 as a starting point, we won't really have to worry too much about balance, since all that's done for us, so it's not like working on things separately will unbalance anything.

Just a thought, is all. Either way, I'm all for helping with this.
Also, to help with organization, I could go start up a forum specifically for this, so we don't just have 1 thread with a bunch of information strewn about haphazardly.

Hironomus

2011-01-22, 06:22 AM

I have been working on this myself lately, considering it for my group. If I have time I would be happy to contribute whatever I can find (I seem to have misplaced what I had (the dangers of using pen and paper)).

Anyhow its a terrific Idea and one I would love to see completed, at least to a semi usable state.

Necro_EX

2011-01-22, 07:49 AM

Concerning classes:

So, I take it everyone would like to see all the default TES classes made into 3.5 compatible ones? I suppose I could work on classes. I feel more comfortable working on that than I do working on monsters...I wrote up a hunger and a winged twilight, but I'm just not so sure about them.

Concerning enchanting:

To keep this lore-correct we can't use the normal magical item creation method in 3.5, it seems we'll have to write that up from scratch. I sort of recall something in the magic item compendium that is sort of similar to how enchantment is done in TES, but those gems were just ones you'd find, if I recall.

Seems we'll need a soultrap spell effect, a way to measure the strength of something's soul (CR? Maybe have type/subtype factor into it), and what exactly that will mean for enchanting. Perhaps we could have it on something like a point-buy? (So that a +1 enhancement bonus would cost X, a +2 would Y, etc...?)

==

So, like I said I'll be happy to work on classes, perhaps on spell effects and mechanics, but I'm not as comfortable with monsters. :/

EDIT: My skype is luciusrunewind, and I'm available pretty much all day today. Let's get this organized and going, I have an itch to get this done. :D

Codemus

2011-01-22, 04:55 PM

Woohoo! Sweet sweet intrest. Yeah, lets get organized about this, no need to be slap-dash with how we do it.

To keep this lore-correct we can't use the normal magical item creation method in 3.5, it seems we'll have to write that up from scratch. I sort of recall something in the magic item compendium that is sort of similar to how enchantment is done in TES, but those gems were just ones you'd find, if I recall.

Seems we'll need a soultrap spell effect, a way to measure the strength of something's soul (CR? Maybe have type/subtype factor into it), and what exactly that will mean for enchanting. Perhaps we could have it on something like a point-buy? (So that a +1 enhancement bonus would cost X, a +2 would Y, etc...?)

Yeah, I was thinking about that last night. Your idea sounds pretty good actually. Perhaps the strength of the soul would be the sum of the target creatures Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma? And adding type would work as well, cause if you remember Golden Saints were one of the best things to soultrap, and they are demon/outsiders. In fact, I think most of the high-end souls were either demonic or undead, so perhaps they should all give the same bonus?

Lets see: A bog standard Goblin with 10s in Int, Wis, and Cha would have a soul strength of 30. I guess the humanoid type could add something like +5 to the mix, so a total of 35. I dunno if this system would work out, but it's an idea.

Hmm... are we going to allow soultraps to effect the 'sentient' humanoids, like nords and dunmer? They could in Oblivion, but they would only fit into the black soul gem, and I can't remember how much power they had. I just used it to store the soul of that annoying fan. :smallbiggrin:

I can only imagine what kind of stat layout a Golden Saint would have, but the demon/outsider types could probably give a +15 or so bonus to soul strength?

Necro_EX

2011-01-22, 06:01 PM

Codemus

2011-01-22, 09:12 PM

Something like that could work, yeah. Using the ability scores is actually a pretty good idea. Perhaps we should throw in some division to this mix, though...seems like we'll end up with massive scores later in. :/

Maybe something like this:

S=(Int+Wis+Cha)/T

Where S is the 'soul points' and T is a number based on the creature's type? Creatures with greater souls (Daedra, sentients) would have a lower T and therefore a higher score?

Of course, either way would work, really as long as we figure out a good way set up the costs of things.

Actually, come to think of it, I think I like yours better, less needless math.

Well, let's see...

How about this:

Aberration: +20
Animal: +0
Construct: +10 (or perhaps this could be CR/material based?)
Dragon: +20
Elemental: +15
Fey: +10
Giant: +5
Humanoid: +5
Magical Beast: +10
Monstrous Humanoid: +5
Ooze: -5
Outsider: +15
Plant: +0
Undead: +5
Vermin: -5

Also, I'm all for black soul gems taking the souls of the common races. :D

Well, what would be a good spread for enhancement costs? Given 35 as a pretty flat amount to cram into a soul gem? I suppose we'll have to compare the numbers generated this way to the standard costs for enchanting in 3.5, right?

EDIT: Some example soul strengths using this method/table:
Dire bear = 21
Dire rat = 17
MM1's example lich = 51
Human warrior skeleton = 16
The freakin' Terrasque = 41

Ehh...this might take some tweaking.

Hmm... well that list might just be spot on. A lich is well more dangerous than the Terrasque, due to versatility. But the Terrasque, if included, should get mega bonus soul points for being the only one inexistance (depending upon setting that is).

Also, going with the model that I proposed, the simplilest way to calculate conversion to magic may be division. A standard +1 magic bonus to a weapon costs roughly 2,000gp, not counting cost for the weapon itself or special materials. A +2 bonus is 8,000. If you take those and divide by 100 (2000/100=20, 8000/100=80) you can get a somewhat loose definition of how much soulpower (SP for short) you need to enchant the darn thing.

Now, that may look like a problem, what with 80 being almost impossible to get with just one soul. But, what if you allowed for multiple soul gems to be used for one enchantment? By that logic, all you need would be four dire bear souls (calculating up to 84SP) to pull off a enchanting attempt of that magnitude.

And even if finding and slaying that many bears would be a problem, you could always go out and hunt up a bunch of rats instead, or apes, or anything to add up to that amount. One thing however, lets leave out the summoning/soultrap trick. No need for that sort of thing here. :smallwink:

Now, about the soul gems themselves. How should they function? One soul per gem obviously, but what point caps should they have? I know the game has it's own cap system, but they may not meet our needs. I'm presently looking those up right now, so this paragraph may change in a bit.

Edit: Eh, I'll just tack on more instead of changing things. I thought about it some more, and dividing the market price of the magical enchantment by 125 will get better results than just 100.

Moving on, the soul gems. They are ranked as: Petty soul gem, Lesser soul gem, Common soul gem, Greater soul gem, and Grand soul gem. This was snipped from an enchantment faq provided by TOlson at GameFAQ:Format is: Creature Name - Charge Value - Lowest Soul Gem Required
(^ denotes creatures which may be summoned)

Ancestral Ghost - 100 - Common^
Clannfear - 100 - Common^
Cliff Racer - 20 - Petty
Daedroth - 195 - Grand^
Dremora - 100 - Greater^
Flame Atronach - 105 - Common^
Golden Saint - 400 - Grand^
Guar - 20 - Lesser
Kagouti - 20 - Petty
Kwama Forager - 15 - Petty
Least Bonewalker (goes in as Bonewalker) - 75 - Common^
Nix Hound - 10 - Petty
Ogrim Titan - 70 - Common
Rat - 10 - Petty
Scamp - 100 - Common^
Skeletal Minion (goes in as Skeleton) - 20 - Petty^
Skeleton Warrior - 30 - Common
Slaughterfish - 10 - Petty
Winged Twilight - 300 - Grand^

So from this, we can determine that the higest amount of SP that can fit in, say, a petty soul gem is 20SP. This actualy looks fairly managible, with hardly any changes nessisary.

kwanzaabot

2011-01-22, 10:06 PM

Y'know, this comes up every so often, but is never finished.

I take issue with that, good sir. I finished mine.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91755

(mind you, I only set out to do the races, because IMO, the majority of Elder Scrolls monsters are already in the Monster Manual, and anything else can basically be re-fluffed, with a few exceptions)

Necro_EX

2011-01-22, 10:07 PM

Codemus

2011-01-22, 10:33 PM

I don't know about allowing mutliple gems per enchantment, at least not without some restrictions, because aside from the gp cost related to enchantment that might make it too easy to make a ridiculous piece of equipment relatively easily. "Just a couple of bears away from that +3 flaming burst longsword."

Borrowing again from the games themselves, we could assign each bit of equipment a limit to how much SP can be forced into it. Something like an iron longsword might be able to handle, say, 40 SP in it, while a glass one might be able to hold more.

EDIT: Sload with only a +2 Int? Whaaaaaaaaaat?

Well, you have to factor in the price of the gmens themselves, as well as still paying the full enchantment price. And gems should not be easy to get. I mean, they are made from crystal, which can be hard to find at times, is easy to break, and once used for enchantment are consumed in the magical process. *shrug* But, I can see that problem coming up despite all that. Perhaps something can be done to fix it.

And as to the limit to what items can hold how much SP, I agree with you on that. It would be a very easy way to control the power level of magical items, as only rarer materials can hold better enchantments.

Weren't there some special materials in-game? Lets see: chitin, glass, adamantium, ebony, stalhrim, daedric, nordic silver(I guess that just counts for regular silver), whatever metal dwemer stuff is made of, bonemold, and whatever metal orcish stuff is made of (possibly just adamantium). Quite a lot. :smallbiggrin:

Necro_EX

2011-01-23, 12:01 AM

Actually, thinking on it it sort of seems that the material is a good way to prevent characters from having too-powerful weapons. For instance, if an iron weapon can hold only 40 or so SP, and we have a +1 at 16, a +2 at...64?

Suddenly, I think we need to rethink our math, here. D:
Let's look at that lich again. It's a pretty good example of something you'd want to soul trap. I mean it is an undead spellcaster, after all. That thing wreaks of magic.

It gives us 51 SP with our current layout. So, without changing our method of getting SP we need to figure a way to make it so that that 51 SP can be translated into an appropriately leveled item for a party around level 13. At that level we could expect something like a +2 weapon with a +1 equivalent enhancement as a fairly balanced bit of loot, especially when you consider liches typically have double items and goods.

With our current layout that would amount to 80 SP total in enhancements. :/
I suppose allowing multiple gems would fix this to a degree, but it just doesn't feel right, I mean in the games you only ever need one, and I'm fairly certain there's no mention of using multiple gems on one item in any of the in-game books.

Materials? Oh, yeah...TES is full of equipment materials and styles. There's iron, steel, silver, mithril, elven (silver/mithril?), dwemer (brass?), daedric, glass, ebony, chitin, various leathers and hides for armor, plenty. So I suppose we should get a complete list of those and then figure out a way to determine how much each can hold, on top of whatever else defines them like mithril weighing less, ebony weighing a ****ton but being the hardest damned thing ever, etc...

Actually, I'm coming around to the idea of using multiple gems.
I mean, armor is kinda bigger than a weapon, typically. It would really only make sense if more could be used on it, right? Especially when you account for the fact that 3.5 kinda has fewer body slots than even Oblivion had.

Codemus

2011-01-23, 12:48 AM

Yeah, that wasn't the best idea in the world. The SP requirements escalate too fast for that to be a solid fix. Perhaps we can use your equation for calculating SP? That would result in a much lower amount of SP, but we can also just drastically reduce the SP costs of enchantment. Lets look at that prototypical Lich again with your equation:

SP = (Int + Wis + Cha)/T (I guess T would be 5 for now)

So a lich's SP would be 9.2. I guess we should round down, so it would be just 9. Okay, now to the enhancement costs. Hmm... What about multiples of three? As in, +1 is 3, +2 is 6, +3 is 9? Dunno, thats about all I could come up with.

The problem is that the smaller the actual amount of SP we are talking about, the harder to figure out the SP capacity of items. We just have more elbowroom with the larger equation.

I guess neither one has the best design. There must be another way to calculate this, but I can't think of it.

Necro_EX

2011-01-23, 01:04 AM

Well, how about this?

T=

Aberration: 1
Animal: 5
Construct: 2 (or perhaps this could be CR/material based?)
Dragon: 1
Elemental: 2
Fey: 3
Giant: 4
Humanoid: 3
Magical Beast: 3
Monstrous Humanoid: 3
Ooze: 5
Outsider: 1
Plant: 5
Undead: 3
Vermin: 5

That way, our lich would produce 15. Maybe we could add something based on its ability to cast spells? Let's say the equation could be something like S=(Int+Wis+Cha+(1/2caster level))/T?
This way the lich produces 17.

So, all we have to do is get either 15 or 17 to fit an equation that could get it to produce that +2 flaming sword.

Looking at the costs for enhancement, they increase exponentially it looks like, 2k, 8k, 18k, etc...So, logically our SP cost should be set up similarly.
Let's see...something with a CR 6 should have enough SP to provide a +1 enhancement.

Jesus, an Aboleth would produce 39 with this layout. Of couse, Nirn has no Aboleths, but I'd imagine a Sload being the equivalent. Hmmm...
Maybe creature type is the wrong approach?

Codemus

2011-01-23, 01:24 AM

Perhaps. But how would we do it otherwise, just arbitrarily assign a SP value to each creature? Wait... maybe just use the CR as a rough guideline? Or CR as SP?

Necro_EX

2011-01-23, 01:32 AM

Perhaps HD?

I still think there should be other factors, though. I mean imagine getting the 'soul' of something like an overgrown Nix Hound. We'll say he's CR 8, he's a big'n. I'd think you'd get something more out of, say, a level 8 Altmer wizard, y'know?

Maybe we could use something like CR or HD + a list of modifiers? Something like spellcaster nets you, say, 5 or so (doubled up every 5 HD?), certain types like outsider or elemental net you, say, 10? This way big, natural creatures get you less than magical ones and Daedra.

Setting them for each creature just wouldn't do, it'd be hard to balance and what happens when the DM decides to level a creature? So, I think an equation is our best bet, here.

Hmmm...do you have Skype? Perhaps talking this out real-time would help.

Othniel Edden

2011-01-23, 01:39 AM

Okay, so there are three groupings in Elder Scrolls for classes and skills; Combat (Warrior), Magic (Mage) and Stealth (Thief)

Personality= Charisma
Speed= Dexterity
Strength= Strength
Willpower= Wisdom
Agility= Dexterity
Endurance= Constitution
Intelligence= Intelligence

These are the base classes they've included at the beginning of both Marrowind and Oblivion. They are each classified by each of their overlying archtypes and I've listed their primary attributes;
Thief Classes
Acrobats: Dex, Con
Agent: Dex, Cha
Assassin: Int, Dex
Bard: Int, Cha
Monk: Dex, Wis
Pilgrim: Dex, Cha
Rogue: Cha, Dex
Thief: Dex

Warrior Classes
Archer: Dex, Str
Barbarian: Str, Dex
Crusader: Str, Wis
Knight: Cha, Str
Scout: Con, Dex
Warrior: Con, Str

Mage Classes
Battlemage:Int, Str
Healer: Cha, Wis
Mage: Int, Wis
Nightblade: Dex, Wis
Sorcerer: Con, Int
Spellsword: Con, Wis
Witchhunter: Dex, Int

Further I think the spell casting classes would get spell lists based on the schools they can cast rather than having individual spell lists. We can reclassify some DnD spells, as well scaling the the spells in both Marrowind and Oblivion and maybe even Daggerfall and the others.

Necro_EX

2011-01-23, 01:48 AM

Where spellcasting classes are concerned (and there's plenty, because freaking everyone uses magic in Tamriel) I'm all for reclassing spells into the TES schools. Of course, a lot of that's already done for us.

Conjuration/Thaumaturgy = Well, conjuration.

Destruction = Evokation.

Alteration = This one's tricky, a bit of abjuration and a bit pretty much all of transmutation.

Restoration = A very specific school, here.

I think that'd work out pretty well, and it's really not too difficult on our part, just tedious as all hell. I mean, we'll have to sift through all those spells to reclass them all individually.

I could start writing up class progressions for the core classes, I suppose.
By the way, someone check out those prestige classes I dumped earlier, I'd like some feedback on those, as the only person I've shown them to before now was a friend in my local group who's new to traditional gaming, and has never touched homebrewing before. Because, if those suck maybe I shouldn't do the classes. XD

hotel_papa

2011-01-23, 01:49 AM

I did some work on this a couple of years ago. I'll gladly e-mail a zip of what I have to anyone who wants it. It's high powered and needs polishing, but my first playtest / campaign went well. Message me if you're interested.

HP

Codemus

2011-01-23, 02:05 AM

Nah, I don't have skype. Never looked into it really. Worth having?

Also, don't forget Mysticism! :smallbiggrin: I'll hop over and look at those prcs real quick.

Necro_EX

2011-01-23, 02:10 AM

Yeah, Skype's a worthwhile thing to have. It's a pretty nice messager, works as a comp-phone, and you get that one free call to a landline. Definitely worth getting, assuming you've got a mic. :D

Mysticism's an odd one, I'm guessing a lot of divination, plus the soultrap spell. :D

Ziegander

2011-01-23, 02:52 AM

I think, as far as Enchanting goes, using HD as the guideline for soul points seems perfectly reasonable. Then just modify that based on creature types and subtypes. Outsiders are worth more SP than Animals.

Humanoids are tricky because their souls can only be placed in Black Soul Gems and those are really powerful tools for enchanting, but are also [Evil] subtype.

Actually, CR really seems like the best way to go. Just grant double CR in SP for a given creature and then on top of that certain types/subtypes grant bonus SP.

Necro_EX

2011-01-23, 02:59 AM

Yeah, basing it on CR seems to be our best option, really.

So, something like SP=CR+(all misc. modifiers)

Is spellcaster? +.5CR
Is intelligent? (10 or more) +5
Is willful? (10 or more wis) +5
Is charismatic? (10 or more cha) +5
Is outsider? +.5CR

Of course, the problem here is that outsider/casters (Golden Saints?) would have massive SP amounts. :/
Maybe just =10 for being a spellcaster, but it wouldn't make much sense for a level 20 Telvanni mage to give a similar amount of SP as, say, that Khajiit alchemist over there.

Codemus

2011-01-23, 03:08 AM

Skooba dooba

Hircine Huntsman
Hircine Huntsman

Hircine Huntsmen are worshippers of the Daedric prince Hircine, god of the hunt, father of the manbeasts who seek to emulate his skill and cunning in the hunt. Hircine Huntsmen stalk their prey through the harshest perils the elements can throw at them and almost invariably never leave the hunt without a fresh pelt.
Particularly evil Hircine Huntsmen may become stealthy and deadly murderers, and good Hircine Huntsmen make great manhunters and trackers. Regardless of alignment, Hircine Huntsmen are stubborn, ruthless, and relentless in the hunt.
Rangers, scouts, and fighters make natural Hircine Huntsmen, but rogues and barbarians may also seek this prestige class. Other classes rarely, if ever, take up this mantle.

Hit Die: d8

Requirements: To qualify to become a Hircine Huntsman, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Base Attack Bonus: +6
Skills: Craft (Bowmaking) or Craft (Trapmaking) 4 ranks, Knowledge (Nature) 4 ranks, Knowledge (Religion) 4 ranks, Survival 8 ranks.
Feats: Weapon focus (short bow, longbow, or the composite version of either), Track, and Point-Blank Shot

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1st| +1| +2| +2| +0| Ranged precision +1d8
2nd| +2| +3| +3| +0| Poison Use
3rd| +3| +3| +3| +1| Ranged precision +2d8
4th| +4| +4| +4| +1| Greater Weapon Focus
5th| +5| +4| +4| +1| Ranged precision +3d8
6th| +6| +5| +5| +2| Sharp-Shooting
7th| +7| +5| +5| +2| Ranged Precision +4d8
8th| +8| +6| +6| +2| Staggering shot
9th| +9| +6| +6| +3| Ranged precision +5d8
10th| +10| +7| +7| +3| Extended precision
[/table]
Class Skills
The Hircine Huntsman’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Nature) (Int), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis)
Skill Points at Each Level: 4+int modifier.

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Hircine Huntsman.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The Hircine Huntsman gains no weapon or armor proficiencies.

Ranged Precision(EX): As a standard action, a Hircine Huntsman may make a single precisely aimed attack with a ranged weapon, dealing an extra 1d8 points of damage if the attack hits. When making a ranged precision attack, a huntsman must be within 30 feet of his target. A huntsman’s ranged precision attack only works against living creatures with discernible anatomies. Any creature that is immune to critical hits (including undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures) is not vulnerable to a ranged precision attack, and any item or ability that protects a creature from critical hits (such as armor with the fortification special ability) also protects a creature from the extra damage. Unlike with a rogue’s sneak attack, a huntsman’s target does not have to be flat-footed or denied its Dexterity bonus, but if it is, the huntsman’s extra precision damage stacks with sneak attack damage. Treat the huntsman’s ranged precision attack as a sneak attack in all other ways.

The huntsman’s bonus to damage on ranged precision attacks increases by +1d8 every two levels.

A huntsman can only use this ability with a ranged weapon for which he has taken the Weapon Focus feat.

Poison Use: Beginning at 2nd level the Hircine Huntsmen develops an understanding of various poisons and becomes skilled in the employment of poisons to take down larger game. When applying poison to a weapon a Hircine Huntsman has no risk of accidentally poisoning himself.

Staggering Shot(EX): At 8th level a Hircine Huntsman gains the ability to stagger an opponent with a ranged precision attack. This effect limits the target to a single action for 1 round if the ranged precision attack deals damage. This effect may be resisted if the target makes a Fort save (DC is the damage dealt).

Greater Weapon Focus (EX): At 4th level, a Hircine Huntsman gains the Greater Weapon Focus feat for a ranged weapon which he has already selected the Weapon Focus feat, regardless of whether or not the huntsman has attained 8th level as a fighter.

Sharp-Shooting: At 6th level, huntsman gains the Sharp-Shooting feat even if he does not meet the prerequisites.

Extended Precision(SU): A 10th-level Hircine Huntsman’s senses have been sharpened and honed to near perfection. He may now make ranged precision attacks at a range of up to 60 feet.

Manic
Manic
Those summon or otherwise communicate with Sheogorrath may seek to understand his insanity. Those who pursue this knowledge are themselves driven mad. With mad determination manics delve into the abyss of madness inside Sheogorrath’s godhead. Those that make it out of this ordeal alive often become the heads of cults of the dam dog. These manics exist to spread insanity throughout Nirn and can be found almost anywhere in Tamriel.
NPC manics may be encountered solitarily or en masse. Individual manics might be found anywhere, and their insanity is often more subtle; these manics might simply be unnaturally paranoid after delving into Sheogorrath’s insanity. Encountered in groups, a cult of Sheogorrath may be led by a single manic or made entirely or in part of a cabbal of manics.

Hit Die: d6

Requirements: To qualify to become a manic, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Alignment: Any.
Skills: Knowledge (the planes) or Knowledge (Religion) 8 ranks.
Feat: Augment Summoning.
Spells: Able to cast at least one summoning spell of 3rd level or higher.
Special: Must have summoned Sheogorrath on his summoning date, traveled to the isles, or otherwise communicated with madness.

{table=head]Level| BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Spellcasting
1st|+0|+0|+0|+2| Familiar abilities, mad summoning| +1 level of existing spellcasting class
2nd|+1|+0|+0|+3| Sheogorrath’s blessing| +1 level of existing spellcasting class
3rd|+1|+1|+1|+3| Metamagic secret| +1 level of existing spellcasting class
4th|+2|+1|+1|+4| Madness|+1 level of existing spellcasting class
5th|+2|+1|+1|+4| Mad familiar|+1 level of existing spellcasting class
6th|+3|+2|+2|+5|Insanity defined|+1 level of existing spellcasting class
7th|+3|+2|+2|+5|Metamagic secret|+1 level of existing spellcasting class
8th|+4|+2|+2|+6|Deeper madness|+1 level of existing spellcasting class
9th|+4|+3|+3|+6|Solid madness|+1 level of existing spellcasting class
10th|+5|+3|+3|+7|True madness|+1 level of existing spellcasting class[/table]

Class Skills:
The manic’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Spot(Wis).

Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + int modifier

Class Features
All the following are class features of the manic prestige class.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Manics gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.

Spells per day/Spells Known: At each level, a manic gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if she had also gained a level in a spellcasting class to which she belonged begore adding the prestige class level. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (improved chance of turning or destroying undead, a bonus feat, and so on(. If she had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a manic, she must decide to which class to add each level for the purpose of determining spells per day and spells known.

Familiar Abilities: Levels of manic stack with levels of any class that provide access to a gamiliar. Add levels from this class and the class that granted access to the familiar together and refer to the table on page 53 of the player’s handbook to determine the familiar’s natural armor, intelligence, and special abilities. If a character had levels in multiple classes that grant access to a familiar before becoming a manic, she must decide to which class to add each level for the purpose of determining the abilities of her familiar. This ability does not grant a manic a familiar if she does not already have one.

Mad Summoning: Any creature summoned by a manic gains the mad template in addition to any templates (celestial, fiendish) that it may already have.

Sheogorrath’s Blessing(EX): A manic who attains 2nd level gains a +1 insight bonus on all saving throws, but she permanently loses 2 points of Wisdom.

Metamagic Secret: A manic listens to the maddening whispers of entities of pure and true insanity. At 3rd and again at 7th level, she can choose any metamagic feat as a bonus feat.

Madness(EX): At 4th level, a manic’s insanity begins to consume her. She permanently loses 2 points of Wisdom, but gains 2 points of Charisma as her sanity sheds off and her force of personality increases.

Mad Familiar: Beginning at 5th level, a manic’s familiar, if any, gains the mad template in addition to the powers and abilities normal for a familiar of the appropriate level. This effect does not replace an existing familiar – the familiar has been slowly taking on insanity much like its manic master.

Insanity Defined: At 6th level a manic’s insanity fully defines itself, manifesting in one of several ways:

Mania: A manic with mania is erratic as their mind races in every direction. Mania negatively affects the ability of the manic to concentrate, but makes its moves unpredictable. A permanent -4 on all concentration checks made by the manic is applied, and the save DC of all the manic’s spells increases by +2.

Paranoia: A paranoid manic believes everyone is out to get her, and she may just be right. Paranoia grants the manic +1 to all saving throws, +2 to all bluff, diplomacy, gather information, intimidate, and sense motive checks.

Depression: A Depressed manic suffers from crushing depression, but this hardship grants the manic an unnatural fortitude. Depression grants the manic +4Con, and drops her base land speed by 5ft, base flight speed (if any) by 10 ft., and reduces her will saves by -1.

Obsessive: An obsessive manic becomes horribly fixated on something. This manifests in something of an addiction to the object of the manic’s obsession. Obsession grants the manic a +2 morale bonus to attack rolls and all skill checks made while in possession of her obsession, but she suffers a -2 to attack rolls and all skill checks if she does not possess her obsession. The object of the manic’s obsession is decided by a d% roll by the DM on the table found below.

Deeper Madness (EX): At 8th level, a manic’s madness further possesses her. She loses another 2 points of Wisdom and gains a further 2 points of Charisma as her mind continues to split and her insanity becomes even more forceful. At this point, she may swap her Charisma modifier for her Wisdom modifier on her will saves as well as for spellcasting (if she possessed levels in a wisdom-based spellcasting class before taking levels in manic).

Solid Madness(SU): At 9th level, a manic gains a +4 insight bonus on saves made to resist mind-effecting spells and spell-like abilities.

True Madness (SU): At 10th level, a manic gains the Mad template

Dark Brotherhood Assassin
Dark Brotherhood Assassin
Dark Brotherhood Assassins are masters of stealth and deadly arts. They also have a penchant for infiltration and disguise. Operating in cells throughout all of Tamriel the Dark Brotherhood Assassins have a massive information and supply network backing their every action. With such resources Dark Brotherhood Assassins are a terrifying force of death and entropy.
Evil rogue, ninja, scout, and ranger characters naturally gravitate toward the life of an assassin, a hired blade, agent of vengeance, or scion of entropy. Fighters, blackguards, and barbarians make capable warrior-assassins in the employ of the Dark Brotherhood. Casters that find themselves in service of the Dark Brotherhood can make of themselves some of the most deadly assassins using magic to slay with uninterrupted impunity.
Not all members of the Dark Brotherhood necessarily need take the Dark Brotherhood Assassin prestige class, but it does offer class features that are most useful for the archetypal assassin skulking in the shadows with a blade carrying certain death.

Hit Die: d6

Requirements
To qualify to become a Dark Brotherhood Assassin a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Alignment: Any evil, typically lawful evil.
Skills: Hide 8 ranks, Move Silently 8 ranks, Bluff, Disguise, or Gather Information 4 ranks.
Special: The character must be a member of the Dark Brotherhood, journeyman rank.

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1st|+1|+0|+2|+0|Sneak attack +1d6, poison use
2nd|+2|+0|+3|+0|+1 save against poison, uncanny dodge
3rd|+3|+1|+3|+1|Sneak attack+2d6
4th|+4|+1|+4|+1|+2 save against poison, Improved death attack
5th|+5|+1|+4|+1|Improved uncanny dodge, sneak attack+3d6
6th|+6|+2|+5|+2|+3 save against poison, Dex+2
7th|+7|+2|+5|+2|Sneak attack +4d6
8th|+8|+2|+6|+2|+4save against poison, hid in plain sight
9th|+9|+3|+6|+3|Sneak attack +5d6
10th|+10|+3|+7|+3|+5 save against poison[/table]
Class Skills
The Dark Brotherhood Assassin’s class skills (and the key ability for each) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex)

Skill points at each level: 6+int modifier

Class Features
All of the following are Class Features of the Dark Brotherhood Assassin Prestige Class.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Dark Brotherhood Assassin trains in the use of armaments suitable for stealth and sneak attacks. They are proficient in the use of the crossbow (hand, light, and heavy), dagger, kukri, katar, dart, rapier, sap, shortbow (normal and composite), bolas, throwing star, and short sword. They are proficient with light armor, but not shields.

Sneak Attack: This is exactly like the rogue ability of the same name. The extra damage dealt increases by +1d6 every other level. If a Dark Brotherhood assassin gets a sneak attack bonus from another source, the bonuses on damage stack.

Death Attack: If an assassin studies his victim for 3 rounds and then makes a sneak attack with a melee weapon that successfully deals damage, the sneak attack has the additional effect of possibly either paralyzing or killing the target (assassin’s choice). While studying the victim, the assassin can undertake other actions so long as his attention stays focused on the target and target does not detect the assassin or recognize the assassin as an enemy. If the victim of such an attack fails a Fortitude save (DC 10 + Dark Brotherhood Assassin’s class level + the assassin’s int modifier) against the kill effect, she dies. If the saving throw fails against the paralysis effect, the victim’s mind and body become enervated, rendering her helpless and unable to act for 1d6 rounds plus 1 round per level of the assassin. If the victim’s saving throw succeeds, the attack is just a normal sneak attack. Once the assassin has completed the 3 rounds of study, he must make the death attack within the next 3 rounds. If a death attack is attempted and fails (the victim makes her save) or if the assassin does not launch the attack within 3 rounds of completing the study, 3 new rounds of study are required before he can attempt another death attack.

Poison Use: Dark Brotherhood Assassins are trained in the use of poison and never risk accidentally poisoning themselves when applying poison to a blade.

Save Bonus Against Poison: Dark Brotherhood Assassins trail with poisons of all types and slowly grow more and more resistant to their effects. This is reflected by a natural saving throw bonus to all poisons gained at 2nd level that increases by +1 for every two additional levels the assassin gains.

Uncanny Dodge (EX): Starting at 2nd level, a Dark Brotherhood Assassin gains the ability to react to danger before his senses would normally allow him to even be aware of it. He retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (If any) regardless of being caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. ( He still loses any Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.)
If a character gains uncanny dodge from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below).

Improved Uncanny Dodge (EX): At 5th level, a Dark Brotherhood assassin can no longer be flanked, since he can react to opponents on opposite sides of him as easily as he can react to a single attacker. This defense denies rogues the ability to use flank attacks to sneak attack the assassin. The exception to this defense is that a rogue at least four levels higher than the assassin can flank him (and thus sneak attack him).
If a character gains uncanny dodge (see above) from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge, and the levels from those classes stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character.

Hide in Plain Sight(Su): At 8th level, a Dark Brotherhood Assassin can use the hide skill even while being observed. As long as he is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, an assassin can hide himself from view in the open without having anything to actually hide behind. He cannot, however, hide in his own shadow.

Dexterity Bonus: At 6th level a Dark Brotherhood assassin’s dexterity permanently increases by +2. This represents the rigorous training the assassin undergoes to build his reflexes and ability to hide.

Improved Death Attack: Starting at 4th level a Dark Brotherhood Assassin can make a death attack even with a ranged attack within 30 ft. The save to resist the death attack is also increased by +4 if made with a melee weapon.

I also have started on a Morag Tong prestige class. I think it'd be nice to have a prestige class for all the factions, it would help to solidify the world, imo.

Also, here's the template called for by the Manic:
Mad Creature
Creatures touched by Sheogorrath’s insanity are driven mad beyond the comprehension of the sane. Such creatures may manifest this madness in the form of mania or depression, paranoia or any other psychosis. Mad creatures are not simply insane, they are touched by Sheogorrath and are supernaturally resilient and their very physical being displays some hint of their insanity, subtle or otherwise.

Creating a Mad Creature
“Mad” is an acquired template that can be added to any sentient creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature).
A mad creature uses all the base creature’s statistics and abilities except as noted here. Even though the creature’s type changes, do not recalculate Hit Dice, bas attack bonus, or skill points.
Size and Type: The creature’s type and size are unchanged.
Special Attacks: A mad creature retains all the special attacks of the base creature and also gains the following attack.
Mad Strike (SU): Thrice per day, a mad creature can apply its charisma modifier, if any, to its attack and damage rolls.
Special Qualities: A mad creature retains all the special qualities of the base creature and also gains the following special qualities:
Damage Reduction: A mad creature gains damage reduction 5/- This is a part of the creature’s insanity manifested by a lack of concern for its physical being. The creature loses this quality if it is asleep or otherwise unconscious.
Mad Appearance(SU): A mad creature’s body is affected by its insanity. This may manifest in many ways, a deranged look in the eyes, an unnerving grin, odd coloration, etc… This quality grants the creature a +2 on intimidate checks made against creatures without this template.
Psychotic Death Throes(SU): A mad creature suffers erratic spasms while its hp is reduced to zero or below. Any creature that witnesses these death throes must make a will save (DC 10+the creatures charisma modifier) or be shaken for 1d6 rounds.
Abilities: Wis -4, Cha +6
Challenge Rating/Level Adjustment: +1

Woo, took a while to get the tables sorted. Might want to pre-emptively table it next time. :smalltongue:

Anywho. Looks fine, for the most part.

Hircine Hunter seems perfectly fine, though why is extended precision supernatural? Seems like that should be extrodinary instead.

Manic looks hilarious, great potental there.

The Dark Brotherhood Assassin kinda... seems like the regular assassin, only minus the spells. :smallconfused: Am I missing something? They should have a bit more oomph methinks.

Necro_EX

2011-01-23, 03:27 AM

My bad, didn't realize we had table options, here. I'm used to Invision Powerboards, where we don't even get spoiler tags.

Whitesmoke's nice on my internet-home, though.
Freaking ninja posts.

I guess I thought, at the time, that it could be a sort of blessing from Hircine. The class is, after all, one that requires a lot of devotion to a deity's portfolio. Extraordinary is fine, too. :D

Manic's probably my favorite, actually. Can you tell I based this heavily on the alienist? ...and by 'based this heavily on' I mean 'practically plagiarized.' I loves me some Sheogorrath. I even have some Wabbajack for ya:

Wabbajack
Superficially a poorly crafted staff of steel, Wabbajack is a Daedric artifact of great power. This staff, made of Sheogorath’s own insanity, has the ability to transform any target to a random object, at the whim of the staff. This staff has found itself in the hands of many persons in Nirn’s history and is often granted as a gift from Sheogorath for any number of seemingly inconsequential tasks.

To use Wabbajack the wielder must point it at its intended target and speak the name of Wabbajack. This causes a bolt of reddish energy to spray forth from Wabbajack, which will transform the target to a random object from the below table. The caster must first succeed on a ranged touch attack with Wabbajack, and this attack has a range of 60 feet. If the attack hits the target is entitled to a Will save DC 28 to negate the effect.

Used as a melee weapon, Wabbajack functions as a quarterstaff.
Simple double weapon 1d6/1d6 X2, 4 lbs., bludgeoning.

Strong transmutation, strong evil CL 20
Wabbajack has 50 hit points, hardness 20, AC 8, and a break DC of 40.

-%table, coming up-

For the Dark Brotherhood Assassin, the reason it's so mundane is, with the prevalence of magic in TES they're likely to have some, as is. Also, I started on a Morag Tong one which, since they're closer to their mystic roots, I figured should be more the 'magic assassin' sort. Have a difference between the two other than the brotherhoods themselves, y'know?

Maybe we could punch it up a bit?
Give 'em some flare.

Othniel Edden

2011-01-23, 03:33 AM

With Enchanting I believe we could use the DnD item charts with gold being equal to the base material and XP being translated to the soul gem's SP value. We're simply getting the experience from another creature rather than our own.

As for the base classes, I'm willing to offer as much help as I can with that. We'll probably need to set up the norms (Warrior, Thief and Mage) and work the others as variants.

Necro_EX

2011-01-23, 03:37 AM

Actually, that's a pretty good way of looking at it. It's fairly simple and helps set this setting apart from others.

The only issue I can see with it is some balancing issues, since 3.5 wizards are godly as is, those experience costs you run into kind of helped keep you close to the rest of the party, but with experience coming from something else...Hmmm...

Idunno, it could work. What say ye, everyone?

Codemus

2011-01-23, 03:41 AM

With Enchanting I believe we could use the DnD item charts with gold being equal to the base material and XP being translated to the soul gem's SP value. We're simply getting the experience from another creature rather than our own.

Actually, that's a pretty good way of looking at it. It's fairly simple and helps set this setting apart from others.

The only issue I can see with it is some balancing issues, since 3.5 wizards are godly as is, those experience costs you run into kind of helped keep you close to the rest of the party, but with experience coming from something else...Hmmm...

Idunno, it could work. What say ye, everyone?

Well, what if we lock them with feats? As in, to enchant anything upto the price (whatever), you get Enchant Minor Item. To go up a notch, you get the feat Enchant Lesser Item, and so on and so forth. They could have level requirements, and be avalible as wizard bonus feats or whatnot.

Necro_EX

2011-01-23, 03:56 AM

Hmmm...good, good. Makes enchantment harder to come by, since it's not summed up in just 1 feat for a whole group of items, but rather 1 for a 'rank' of enchantment. I like it.

Let's make a +1 iron longsword, shall we?

Well, in vanilla dnd I'd have to be a wizard, with craft magic arms and armor, and dump about 80xp and 1000 gp to do this, correct? It's been a while since I've touched this, since I rarely get to play anymore and noone in my local group cracks out to wizards.

So, with what we've got so far, it would take our Tamrielic wizard this to achieve the same goal:

I need the Minor Enchant Item feat, and a soulgem with 80SP in it. (Formula for that upcoming) and about 1000gp in various materials and whatnot to create the item.

This is doable at around what? Like...5-6th level for a wizard, normally, right?
So...let's get 80 SP from a monster, shall we?

Well, an athach is CR 8. That's a reasonable 'boss' for our wizard to encounter with his group. The wizard gets the soul in his soulgem and fills it to...?

SP=CRx10? Well, that certainly would give a 'boss' with the party's ECL at 6 just enough to produce a +1 weapon.

Let's run with this logic.

So, let's make something truly magnificent.
Something with a total enhancement around 10, a +5 weapon with some real nifty bonuses.

8000SP?
So...a CR 800 monster?
What?

Anyone else have some ideas?

Othniel Edden

2011-01-23, 03:57 AM

Battlemage, Mage, and Sorcerer are the only classes that got Enchantment with Mysticism, the school with soultrap. That means those three are the only ones capable of creating their own soul gems. Sorcerer and Witichhunter are the only two with Enchantment as a major skill in Marrowind, as it is the only game to have enchantment as a school.

Probably means that Sorcerer's might be the only one to get Enchanting as a major class feature.

But here's the other part of it. If your enchanting you have to get the soul gems from somewhere. If you are trapping your own you have to fight dangerous monsters to get the soul gems. If you aren't you have to buy the soul gems at an inflated cost. Less gold, means less stuff, which means less prepared wizard.

Edit:
Also there are two non caster classes that get enchanting, Bards and Knights. Knights also consistently have Armorer, so maybe we could through them a bone with Armor and Arms plus enchanting. Maybe a bonus feat allowing them to create magical arms and armor? This gives at least one noncasting class an edge and a disadvantage when it comes to enchanted item creation.

Necro_EX

2011-01-23, 04:33 AM

Hmmm...thinking we might have to be a little looser with spell lists, perhaps.
I mean, in Morrowind you could still do all your own enchanting with any of the caster classes, you'd just have to work more for it, by building up that skill.

Also, skill with enchantment made you use enchanted items more efficiently.
The best way I could see doing this would be to maybe introduce an enchanter class and have that as one of its class features.

Adding it as a skill would be way too wonky, and we probably don't want too many feats dedicated to enchanting.

Othniel Edden

2011-01-23, 04:52 AM

Thats probably because you have access to everything in the Elder Scroll games, even if it doesn't level you up. Thats not something there in DnD. We could probably supplement the Magic School spell lists with a supplementary universal spell list that includes things like soultrap, and other widespread effects available at later spell levels to simulate not being efficient in it.

We could include the enchanter as an NPC class, or model it after a more balanced Artificer class.

Codemus

2011-01-23, 05:01 AM

Perhaps we should restrict enchanting to only the Enchanter class? That could solve a few things, namely the whole 'everybody and their grandmother can enchant a spoon of power'. It may not be cleaving very close to the setting lore, but this would bring balance.

Sorry, don't pay attention to that. I'm very tired, and I'm not thinking clearly. I forgot we already fixed that problem. :smallbiggrin:

Othniel Edden

2011-01-23, 05:08 AM

Necro_EX

2011-01-23, 05:10 AM

Hmmm...Idunno about making it an NPC class, a lot of players like to be able to enchant their own things, and making it NPC only would practically remove the need to even have the soulgems worked out mechanically, as the players wouldn't be the ones to use them.

Hmmm...HP's got a system flushed out for enchantment. Someone else take a look at it, I'm not so sure about it. :/
Also, I'm freakin' tired and I have to DM later today, I think I might be out for a bit.

Codemus

2011-01-23, 05:17 AM

We could set it up so the enchanter gets the feats for free to do it, while everyone else has to spend feats on it... and have the Soultrap spell be attached to the feat "Item Creation Soul Gem". That way only those that want to have enchantment be a major part do...

I like that. It could work like those spell-like abilities from Complete Arcane (or was it Mage?). How about 3+1/4th Character level /day casting?

Hmmm...Idunno about making it an NPC class, a lot of players like to be able to enchant their own things, and making it NPC only would practically remove the need to even have the soulgems worked out mechanically, as the players wouldn't be the ones to use them.

Hmmm...HP's got a system flushed out for enchantment. Someone else take a look at it, I'm not so sure about it. :/
Also, I'm freakin' tired and I have to DM later today, I think I might be out for a bit.

Yeah, I'll take a look at it tomorrow. I'm curious how all this rigmarole was handled. (Also, need to look up rigmarole in dictionary.)

Necro_EX

2011-01-23, 05:29 AM

Othniel Edden

2011-01-23, 06:07 AM

Well, after I'm done with my group's session tonight (around 1am-ish, usually) I'll write up an enchanter base class, how's that sound? It'll be a mage with a big focus on divination/mysticism and I'll give it the item creation feats as bonus feats, try to find a way to get it so they're more efficient with enchanted items or somesuch, as well.

I think we've got it with basing it (at least in part) on CR or HD, but we just need to nail a good formula that works both at low levels and at high levels. After that, we just need to allot point costs for enhancement bonuses, and we've got enchanting pretty much wrapped up. I see no reason why we can't use the armor/weapon special qualities from the DMG/MIC and maybe expand a little where needed, so there shouldn't really be much need to fiddle with that that I can think of at the moment.

Theoretical Enchanter would need ways to acquire base materials and souls. This means they probably acquire some of it through Mercantile(appraise, diplomacy, bluff) and others of it through scavenging dungeons and fighting. Putting effects on items seems like a parallel disciple to Alteration, which also helps get to places others won't for stuff. Mysticism is a definite. I think we'd fill in the rest with armor and weapon proficiencies. I'm thinking light armor for its protective capabilities without losing to much to spell failure. (Maybe even including the Warmage and company's ability for casting in light armor without chance of arcane spell failure).

I think we have the Enchantment down as soon as we figure out scaling. Maybe a feat chain for the higher level crowd to decrease high costs.

Necro_EX

2011-01-23, 11:15 AM

I think I'll actually get right on fleshing out the enchanter class, I woke up a hell of a lot earlier than I thought I would, and I usually have one of my group over here constantly, but he's nowhere to be seen.

I think I'll take a look at whatserface from Morrowind...the Balmora Mages Guild enchanter, and use her as a base. So they'll likely have diplomacy in their skill list for mercantilism, obviously something like profession (enchanter), and whatnot.

I don't know about armor, though...I think all the enchanters were more the robes-and-staves kind of wizud.

EDIT:

Straight from UESPWIKI:
Enchanter

* These people are masters at enchanting objects and will sell them to you or help you make them.
* Specialization: Magic
* Attributes: Intelligence, Willpower

* Major Skills:

Enchant
Blunt Weapon
Alchemy
Destruction
Unarmored

* Minor Skills:

Alteration
Illusion
Conjuration
Mysticism
Restoration

Alright, how 'boot this:

Enchanter
An enchanter is a very special sort of spellcaster who specializes in the magics of binding souls into soul gems and using these soul gems to enchant items. This skill is very sought after throughout Tamriel as many nobles and experienced adventurers wish to own their very own suit of glass armor of reflection, or perhaps a silver sword of flames. Lacking the ability to do this themselves, the obvious choice is to turn to the enchanter who stands to make a very nice profit from the deal.
Tamriel has had a great many enchanters in its past, many of whom have lived a very sedintery life as guild enchanters or enchanters for local adventurers. Yes, the enchanter can make a very fine living with relatively low risk. However, this does not stop many enchanters from heeding the call of adventure.

Adventures: Adventuring enchanters are often called out into the world by a lust for knowledge; they tend to have reasons similar to many other spellcasters. Good enchanters are often found among the religious temple monks and serve to create magical arms and amor for the temple knights, for the empire, and for local adventurers. Evil enchanters are a dark thing, indeed, trapping the very souls of their enemies and binding them into powerful magical items, often found among necromancer cabals. Neutral enchanters tend to be profiteers and are significantly less likely to be of the adventuring sort.

Characteristics: The enchanter is still a fairly capable spellcaster and capable of defending herself with destructive magics and illusions, two of the more common sorts of enchantments sought by adventurers. She draws her strength from her mastery of enchantment, not only can she bind souls to her own equipment, she is more efficient in the use of these arms and armors.

Alignment: Most enchanters are neutral and have a tendency for lawful behaviour, but this is in no way a strict limit. There are a great many good and evil enchanters, and the ashlanders of Vvardenfell have more chaotic aligned enchanters.

Religion: -placeholder-

Background: -placeholder-

Races: -placeholder-

Other Classes: The enchanter can be everybody's best friend. Though they might often feel as though they exist in the shadow of other spellcasters, even mages turn to the enchanter to bind soulgems to their equipment.

Role: -placeholder-

Hit Die: d4

Class Skills
The Enchanter’s class skills (and the key ability for each) are Concentration (Con), Craft(Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Knowledge (All skills taken separately) (Int), Profession (Enchanter) (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int)
Skill points at each level: 2+int modifier

Class Features
All the following are the class features of the enchanter.

{TABLE=head]Level | BAB | F | R | W | Special
1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2| Scribe scroll, Minor Enchantment, Spontaneous soultrapping
2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 3 |
3 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 3 | Enchanted Efficiency
4 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 4 |
5 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 4 | Bonus Feat
6 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 5 |
7 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 5 | Lesser Enchantment
8 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 6 |
9 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 6 |
10 | 5 | 3 | 3 | 7 | Bonus Feat
11 | 5 | 3 | 3 | 7 |
12 | 6 | 4 | 4 | 8 | Greater Enchantment
13 | 6 | 4 | 4 | 8 |
14 | 7 | 4 | 4 | 9 |
15 | 7 | 5 | 5 | 9 | Bonus Feat
16 | 8 | 5 | 5 | 10 |
17 | 8 | 5 | 5 | 10 | Master Enchantment
18 | 9 | 6 | 6 | 11 |
19 | 9 | 6 | 6 | 11 |
20 |10 | 6 | 6 | 12 | Bonus Feat [/TABLE]

Scribe Scroll: At first level an enchanter receives scribe scroll as a bonus feat.

Minor Enchantment: At first level an enchanter gains minor enchantment as a bonus feat.

Spontaneous Soultrapping: An enchanter may choose to sacrifice any prepared spell for a soul trapping spell of equal or lower level at any time.

Enchanted Efficiency: When recharging an enchanted item such as a wand, an enchanter receives 1.5X the normal amount of charges with any soulgem.

Lesser Enchantment: At 7th level the enchanter gains lesser enchantment as a bonus feat.

Greater Enchantment: At twelfth level an enchanter gains greater enchantment as a bonus feat.

Master Enchantment: At seventeenth level an enchanter gains master enchantment as a bonus feat.

Bonus Feats: For every five levels gained an enchanter receives a bonus feat. These feats must be metamagic feats, spell mastery, etc...

Alright, I'm sure this could use some tweaking still.
Buuuut...how's this, so far?

EDIT: So, here's an important bit...to prepare or not to prepare?
Not just for this class, but all in general?

Codemus

2011-01-23, 02:25 PM

I think I'll actually get right on fleshing out the enchanter class, I woke up a hell of a lot earlier than I thought I would, and I usually have one of my group over here constantly, but he's nowhere to be seen.

I think I'll take a look at whatserface from Morrowind...the Balmora Mages Guild enchanter, and use her as a base. So they'll likely have diplomacy in their skill list for mercantilism, obviously something like profession (enchanter), and whatnot.

I don't know about armor, though...I think all the enchanters were more the robes-and-staves kind of wizud.

EDIT:

Straight from UESPWIKI:
Enchanter

* These people are masters at enchanting objects and will sell them to you or help you make them.
* Specialization: Magic
* Attributes: Intelligence, Willpower

* Major Skills:

Enchant
Blunt Weapon
Alchemy
Destruction
Unarmored

* Minor Skills:

Alteration
Illusion
Conjuration
Mysticism
Restoration

Alright, how 'boot this: (Just the fluff right now, I'm going to finish this after a shower.)

Enchanter
An enchanter is a very special sort of spellcaster who specializes in the magics of binding souls into soul gems and using these soul gems to enchant items. This skill is very sought after throughout Tamriel as many nobles and experienced adventurers wish to own their very own suit of glass armor of reflection, or perhaps a silver sword of flames. Lacking the ability to do this themselves, the obvious choice is to turn to the enchanter who stands to make a very nice profit from the deal.
Tamriel has had a great many enchanters in its past, many of whom have lived a very sedintery life as guild enchanters or enchanters for local adventurers. Yes, the enchanter can make a very fine living with relatively low risk. However, this does not stop many enchanters from heeding the call of adventure.

Adventures: Adventuring enchanters are often called out into the world by a lust for knowledge; they tend to have reasons similar to many other spellcasters. Good enchanters are often found among the religious temple monks and serve to create magical arms and amor for the temple knights, for the empire, and for local adventurers. Evil enchanters are a dark thing, indeed, trapping the very souls of their enemies and binding them into powerful magical items, often found among necromancer cabals. Neutral enchanters tend to be profiteers and are significantly less likely to be of the adventuring sort.

Characteristics: The enchanter is still a fairly capable spellcaster and capable of defending herself with destructive magics and illusions, two of the more common sorts of enchantments sought by adventurers. She draws her strength from her mastery of enchantment, not only can she bind souls to her own equipment, she is more efficient in the use of these arms and armors.

Alignment: Most enchanters are neutral and have a tendency for lawful behaviour, but this is in no way a strict limit. There are a great many good and evil enchanters, and the ashlanders of Vvardenfell have more chaotic aligned enchanters.

Religion: -placeholder-

Background: -placeholder-

Races: -placeholder-

Other Classes: The enchanter can be everybody's best friend. Though they might often feel as though they exist in the shadow of other spellcasters, even mages turn to the enchanter to bind soulgems to their equipment.

Role: -placeholder-

Hit Die: d4

Class Skills
The Enchanter’s class skills (and the key ability for each) are Concentration (Con), Craft(Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Knowledge (All skills taken separately) (Int), Profession (Enchanter) (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int)
Skill points at each level: 2+int modifier

Class Features
All the following are the class features of the enchanter.

{TABLE=head]Level | BAB | F | R | W | Special
1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2| Scribe scroll, Minor Enchantment, Spontaneous soultrapping
2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 3 |
3 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 3 | Enchanted Efficiency
4 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 4 |
5 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 4 | Bonus Feat
6 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 5 |
7 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 5 | Lesser Enchantment
8 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 6 |
9 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 6 |
10 | 5 | 3 | 3 | 7 | Bonus Feat
11 | 5 | 3 | 3 | 7 |
12 | 6 | 4 | 4 | 8 | Greater Enchantment
13 | 6 | 4 | 4 | 8 |
14 | 7 | 4 | 4 | 9 |
15 | 7 | 5 | 5 | 9 | Bonus Feat
16 | 8 | 5 | 5 | 10 |
17 | 8 | 5 | 5 | 10 | Master Enchantment
18 | 9 | 6 | 6 | 11 |
19 | 9 | 6 | 6 | 11 |
20 |10 | 6 | 6 | 12 | Bonus Feat [/TABLE]

Scribe Scroll: At first level an enchanter receives scribe scroll as a bonus feat.

Minor Enchantment: At first level an enchanter gains minor enchantment as a bonus feat.

Spontaneous Soultrapping: An enchanter may choose to sacrifice any prepared spell for a soul trapping spell of equal or lower level at any time.

Enchanted Efficiency: When recharging an enchanted item such as a wand, an enchanter receives 1.5X the normal amount of charges with any soulgem.

Lesser Enchantment: At 7th level the enchanter gains lesser enchantment as a bonus feat.

Greater Enchantment: At twelfth level an enchanter gains greater enchantment as a bonus feat.

Master Enchantment: At seventeenth level an enchanter gains master enchantment as a bonus feat.

Bonus Feats: For every five levels gained an enchanter receives a bonus feat. These feats must be metamagic feats, spell mastery, etc...

Alright, I'm sure this could use some tweaking still.
Buuuut...how's this, so far?

EDIT: So, here's an important bit...to prepare or not to prepare?
Not just for this class, but all in general?

Looking good so far. One thing to iron out is, are we going with spell points or regular spell casting? If spell points, then it's already settled. Preparing and spontaneous casting are both discused under that alternate rule, and there is no problems with either way of casting. If normal vacian (or however you spell it) spell casting, then it's still settled, cause we all know the 3.5 rules fairly well.

As to this class specificaly, I'd say that Enchanters have to prepare their spells. They prepare them from 'How To' books or something.

Necro_EX

2011-01-23, 02:31 PM

Hmmm...I'm not too familiar with the spell points system. Is it like psionics?

Personally, I dig regular 3.5 casting, if that's the case. :D

Codemus

2011-01-23, 02:36 PM

Yeah, it is like psionics, though the spell costs are different than powers. All spells of certain levels have the same spell point costs, whereas powers have a power point cost dependant on the power itself. Also, you can't spend extra spell points to beef up spells, it's at maximum power at all times, hence the somewhat greater price for casting them.

Here (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/UA:Spell_Points) is a copy if you'd like to look them over. An alternate ruling we could go with is the Recharging Magic, though I admit I haven't looked over that rule set too deeply.

Othniel Edden

2011-01-23, 02:58 PM

There is a great deal of overlap between certain classes. Might be prudent to eliminate some. Some of the classes we might have to get creative with the lore if we want to keep them.

Codemus

2011-01-23, 04:17 PM

There is a great deal of overlap between certain classes. Might be prudent to eliminate some. Some of the classes we might have to get creative with the lore if we want to keep them.

That shouldn't be too hard. Just a minor investment in time. Since I'm still waiting to hear from HP, I'll look over them a bit.

EDIT: Okay, here is what I thought about it.

Thief Classes
Acrobats: Dex, Con
Agent: Dex, Cha (A little similar to Rogue. Maybe a PRC for it?)
Assassin: Int, Dex (Already have a prc for it thanks to Necro.)
Bard: Int, Cha
Monk: Dex, Wis
Pilgrim: Dex, Cha (Maybe something can be done for this to make it less like monk?)
Rogue: Cha, Dex
Thief: Dex

Warrior Classes
Archer: Dex, Str (Broke my heart to nix this one.)
Barbarian: Str, Dex
Crusader: Str, Wis (Paladinish, but do we want a paladin expy?)
Knight: Cha, Str (Bumping this one to PRC should work fine.)
Scout: Con, Dex
Warrior: Con, Str (Fighter, naturally.)

Mage Classes
Battlemage:Int, Str (Hmm… this could be a prc. Possibly a standalone class.)
Healer: Cha, Wis (Well… I guess that could stay.)
Mage: Int, Wis
Nightblade: Dex, Wis (This would work better as a prc.)
Sorcerer: Con, Int
Spellsword: Con, Wis (Too similar to Battlemage.)
Witchhunter: Dex, Int (Could be interesting as a basic class.)

Othniel Edden

2011-01-23, 06:24 PM

We can run Battlemages and spellswords as rather different by having battlemages be spontaneous casters, and spellswords as prepared casters. Because spellswords use wisdom we can have them be more similar to clerics, and use Warmage as a base for Battlemages.

We could also combine Scout and Archer to make a Ranger class without the spellcasting, and use witch hunter as a more mystic ranger.

Crusader, we could have as a less MAD paladin type, by nixing the charisma features of that class, and using more consolidated class features.

Codemus

2011-01-23, 07:35 PM

Othniel Edden

2011-01-23, 08:11 PM

I've decided to work on the Witchhunter. I've got a rough idea of what I want. Int based spellcaster-skill monkey with 3/4ths BAB, light armor and light shield proficiency, simple and ranged martial weapon proficiencies, spell casting lists of Conjuration and Mysticism (debating on adding Destruction; basis Oblivion). Given the Morrowind class description I also am inclined to include turn undead or at least Favored Enemy:Undead. Given Witchhunter's viewpoint I figure a summoning list of something less profane than the undead and demons might be in order, so maybe the ability to cast summon nature's ally spontaneously would work well as a class feature.

Also looking at going with a 6th level spell cap like Bards instead of full spellcasting.

Codemus

2011-01-23, 09:48 PM

Well, here is what I have so far. A rather fast job, I'll admit. It was pretty hard to try and figure out some unique special abilities for it. Definately not done, but it's starting to shape up. :smallbiggrin:

Battlemage

Adventures:
Characteristics:
Alignment:
Religion:
Background:
Races:
Other Classes:
Role:
Abilities: Intelligence is the primary ability for a Battlemage, as it improves his spellcasting power. Strength is secondary, as it increases the DC of a Battlemage’s spells and helps in close combat. A high Constitution improves the Battlemage’s hit points.

Hit Die: d8

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|0th|1st|2nd|3rd|4t h|5th
1st|+0|+2|+0|+2|Armored Mage (light), Focused Discipline|3|2|-|-|-|-
2nd|+1|+3|+0|+3|Combat Casting, Arcane Might|4|3|-|-|-|-
3rd| +2|+3|+1|+3|Bonus Feat|5|4|-|-|-|-|-
4th| +3|+4|+1|+4||6|5|-|-|-|-|-
5th| +3|+4|+1|+4|Armored Mage (medium)|6|5|2|-|-|-
6th| +4|+5|+2|+5|Bonus Feat|6|6|3|-|-|-
7th| +5|+5|+2|+5||6|6|5|-|-|-
8th| +6/+1|+6|+2|+6|Arcane Might|6|7|6|-|-|-
9th| +6/+1|+6|+3|+6|Bonus Feat|6|7|6|2|-|-
10th| +7/+2|+7|+3|+7|Armored Mage (heavy)|6|8|7|3|-|-
11th| +8/+3|+7|+3|+7||6|8|7|5|-|-
12th| +9/+4|+8|+4|+8|Bonus Feat|6|8|7|6|-|-
13th| +9/+4|+8|+4|+8||6|9|8|6|2|-
14th| +10/+5|+9|+4|+9|Arcane Might|6|9|8|7|3|-
15th| +11/+6/+1|+9|+5|+9|Bonus Feat|6|9|8|7|5|-
16th| +12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+10||6|9|9|8|6|-
17th| +12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+10||6|10|9|8|6|2
18th| +13/+8/+3|+11|+6|+11|Bonus Feat|6|10|9|8|7|3
19th| +14/+9/+4|+11|+6|+11||6|10|10|9|7|5
20th| +15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+12|Arcane Might|6|10|10|10|8|6
[/table]
Class Skills (2 + Int modifier per level, x4 at 1st level): Climb, Concentration, Craft, Jump, Knowledge (Arcane), Ride, Spellcraft, Swim.

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Battlemage.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The Battlemage gains proficiency with all simple and martial weapons, with all armor and all shields.

Spells: A Battlemage casts arcane spells drawn from the Alteration and Destruction spell lists. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time.
To learn or cast a spell, a Battlemage must have a Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level (Int 10 for 0-th level spells, Int 11 for 1st-level spells, and so forth). The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a Battlemage’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the Battlemage’s intelligence modifier.
Like other spellcasters, a Battlemage can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on the table above. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Intelligence score.

Armored Mage (light): Normally, armor of any type interferes with an arcane spellcaster’s gestures. However, Battlemages have specialized training, allowing them to ignore the hindrance of wearing light armor and light shields.
At 5th level, this covers medium armor and heavy shields.
At 10th level, this covers heavy armor and tower shields.

Arcane Might: Battlemages are skilled in supplementing their martial strength with spell craft. Battlemages get a +1 Bonus to their strength at 2nd level. This bonus increases to +2 at 8th level, to +3 at 14th level, and +4 at 20th level.

Focused Discipline: Battlemages focus intently on a few magical schools, to the exclusion of all else. Due to their narrow focus, they may add their strength bonus to the DC of any arcane spells they cast.

Combat Casting: At 2nd level Battlemages get Combat Casting as a bonus feat for free.

Bonus Feat: At 3rd level, a Battlemage gets a bonus feat drawn from the Fighter Bonus Feat list. The Battlemage gains additional bonus feats at levels 6, 9, 12, 15, and 18.

Othniel Edden

2011-01-23, 10:27 PM

That looks really good. Possibly could space out Arcane Might to stop at +4 rather than +5. Won't be really sure until we have some other classes to balance and compare it to...

Codemus

2011-01-23, 11:01 PM

Done. I wana work some more strength stuff into it though. It's rare for a caster to have good strength, much less depend upon it. Plus, I find it hilarious.

I cast spells with my FIST!!!

Othniel Edden

2011-01-23, 11:25 PM

Those touch spells must hurt. :p

Necro_EX

2011-01-24, 01:18 AM

Codemus

2011-01-24, 01:49 AM

Alright, I'll be back here in a bit, gotta go do a few things, but I'll be on later if everyone's still here.

Just a thought...battlemage is kind of an earned title in TES, so maybe we could make that a prestige class? I know it's playable from the get-go in the games, but it's kind of like a knightly status.

Ah, just saw what you posted. That actually looks pretty good, but you might want to push armored mage (heavy) back a bit. The duskblade has that as his whole point and never gets heavy, so I think if we're gonna give that to someone it should at least be later in. Maybe level 15?

Yeah, battlemage could be a prc. I'll slap a prc version together and we can have a look at both of them.

About the heavy part, I gave it to them so early because of a few factors. First, they do not have full BAB. Second, they don't have all the nifty little gadgets that duskblades get. Charging a weapon with a spell, an ocasional insta-cast, and other nifty doodads. The battlemage is about raw force, and staying power. But, your right as well. It may be a bit too early. I'll fiddle with it and see what looks good.

EDIT: And here we have the prc version.
Requirements[b]: To qualify to become a Battlemage, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Base Attack Bonus: +4
Skills: Concentration 4 ranks, Knowledge (Arcane) 4 ranks
Feats: Combat Casting
Spells or Spell-Like Abilities: Arcane caster level 1st.
Special: Must join the Mages Guild and study with a willing instructor.

[b]Hit Die: d8

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Spells per Day/Spells Known
1st|+0|+2|+0|+2|Armored Mage, Arcane Might|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
2nd|+1|+3|+0|+3|Bonus Feat|-
3rd|+2|+3|+1|+3|Focused Discipline|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
4th|+3|+4|+1|+4|Bonus Feat|-
5th|+3|+4|+1|+4|Arcane Armor|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
[/table]
Class Skills (2 + Int modifier per level): Climb, Concentration, Craft, Jump, Knowledge (Arcane), Ride, Spellcraft, Swim.

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Battlemage.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The Battlemage gains proficiency with martial weapons and with light armor and shields.

Spells per Day/Spells Known: At every odd-numbered level, a Battlemage gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class to which he belonged before adding the prestige class level. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (such as the bonus feat sometimes gained by a wizard). If he had more than one arcane spellcasting class, before becoming a Battlemage, he must decide which class to add each level for the purpose of determining spells per day and spells known.

Armored Mage (ex): Normally, armor of any type interferes with an arcane spellcaster’s gestures. However, Battlemages have specialized training, allowing them to ignore the hindrance of wearing light armor and light shields.

Arcane Might (su): Battlemages are skilled in supplementing their martial strength with spell craft. Battlemages get a +1 Bonus to their strength, increasing by an additional +1 for each additional level of Battlemage the he takes.

Bonus Feat (ex): At 2nd level, a Battlemage gets a bonus feat drawn from either the Fighter bonus feats or Wizard bonus feats. The Battlemage gains additional bonus feat at 4th level.

Focused Discipline (ex): Battlemages focus intently on a few magical schools, to the exclusion of all else. Due to their narrow focus, they may add their strength bonus to the DC of any arcane spells they cast of the Destruction or Alteration schools.

Arcane Armor (su): To shore up their defenses, many Master Battlemages invest their armor with a large amount of their personal power. The Battlemage gains a +2 deflection bonus to AC when wearing any kind of armor, as well as a bonus to their saving throws equal to their Intelligence modifier.
Not too shabby. I also came up with a new ability while I was writing it. Now to go back and add it to the base class version.:smallbiggrin: Oh, and I picked up skype. Not sure how to finangle it into something usefull yet though. Haven't had much time to look at it's functions.

Necro_EX

2011-01-24, 02:29 AM

Codemus - Yeah, it does definitely fit the battlemage since they're kinda like TES's version of Space Marines with how ridiculous they are. :D

Actually, just gave it another look-over. Looks alright to me. I forgot how narrow their magical focus is.
They're the muscle wizard. :D

As for classes, I pretty much agree with that list you put together. I think I might be able to make an interesting acrobat prc, based a little on the perfect wight, but with all its abilities being EX instead of SU.

Also, why cross out scout? It's a fairly usable class.

I think I might get on doing either the sorcerer or the crusader here in a bit. Sorcerer should be interesting considering how CON heavy it'll be. :D

Oh, and yeah I think agent would make a good prc.

EDIT: For Skype, just add me (luciusrunewind) and we can get a live chat going sometime, it's just smoother than forum posting.

Also, I'm kinda diggin' the prc version, but now I think I'm liking the base class version.

Maybe make the prc a 10-level spread with armored mage laid out how you had it on the base class, that way they reach heavy just as they cap it off; the idea of one in anything less than fullplate at the end of his career is just not right. XD Other than that, that's pretty damned nice.

Codemus

2011-01-24, 02:36 AM

Also, why cross out scout? It's a fairly usable class.

Bugh. I hate the scout. And I have no clue why! Just unreasoning hate. I'm talking about the d&d class here, not scouts in TES. I am perfectly aware that the whole movement to gain bonuses works fine, and they make for okay rogue-ish characters. Just... dont' like them. Alot. *shrug*

EDIT: Here's the 10 level variant.

Battlemage

Requirements: To qualify to become a Battlemage, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Base Attack Bonus: +4
Skills: Concentration 4 ranks, Knowledge (Arcane) 4 ranks
Feats: Combat Casting
Spells or Spell-Like Abilities: Arcane caster level 1st.
Special: Must join the Mages Guild and study with a willing instructor.

Hit Die: d8

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Spells per Day/Spells Known
1st|+0|+2|+0|+2|Armored Mage (light), Arcane Might|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
2nd|+1|+3|+0|+3|Bonus Feat|-
3rd|+2|+3|+1|+3|Focused Discipline, Arcane Might|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
4th|+3|+4|+1|+4|Bonus Feat|-
5th|+3|+4|+1|+4|Armored Mage (medium), Arcane Might|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
6th|+4|+5|+2|+5|Bonus Feat|-
7th|+5|+5|+2|+5|Arcane Might|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
8th|+6|+6|+2|+6|Bonus Feat|-
9th|+6|+6|+3|+6|Arcane Might|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
10th|+7|+7|+3|+7|Arcane Armor, Armored Mage (heavy)|-
[/table]
Class Skills (2 + Int modifier per level): Climb, Concentration, Craft, Jump, Knowledge (Arcane), Ride, Spellcraft, Swim.

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Battlemage.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The Battlemage gains proficiency with martial weapons and with light armor and shields.

Spells per Day/Spells Known: At every odd-numbered level, a Battlemage gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class to which he belonged before adding the prestige class level. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (such as the bonus feat sometimes gained by a wizard). If he had more than one arcane spellcasting class, before becoming a Battlemage, he must decide which class to add each level for the purpose of determining spells per day and spells known.

Armored Mage (light): Normally, armor of any type interferes with an arcane spellcaster’s gestures. However, Battlemages have specialized training, allowing them to ignore the hindrance of wearing light armor and light shields.
At 5th level, this covers medium armor and heavy shields.
At 10th level, this covers heavy armor and tower shields.

Arcane Might (su): Battlemages are skilled in supplementing their martial strength with spell craft. Battlemages get a +1 Bonus to their strength, increasing by an additional +1 for every odd level of Battlemage the he takes.

Bonus Feat (ex): At 2nd level, a Battlemage gets a bonus feat drawn from either the Fighter bonus feats or Wizard bonus feats. The Battlemage gains additional bonus feat at 4th, 6th, and 8th levels.

Focused Discipline (ex): Battlemages focus intently on a few magical schools, to the exclusion of all else. Due to their narrow focus, they may add their strength bonus to the DC of any arcane spells they cast of the Destruction or Alteration schools.

Arcane Armor (su): To shore up their defenses, many Master Battlemages invest their armor with a large amount of their personal power. The Battlemage gains a +2 deflection bonus to AC when wearing any kind of armor, as well as a bonus to their saving throws equal to their Intelligence modifier.

Necro_EX

2011-01-24, 02:46 AM

Codemus

2011-01-24, 03:13 AM

Seems fine to me. I'm gonna start cobbling together a Knight prc. Might be able to work something out for it. Will probably borrow a bit from that knight basic class nobody uses. :smallbiggrin:

Othniel Edden

2011-01-24, 05:44 AM

Well, I have a proposal.

How about we make archer work?
I mean, I know dnd archers are best made from fighters, but I think it's possible to make a class specifically geared toward archery. Othniel Edden's suggestion of replacing the sort of redundant archer and scout with something like a ranger wouldn't be bad.

Looking at the list we're kinda missing a survival-based character. We'd basically be making a non-magical ranger. I'd even go so far as to say we could nix the choice between archery and dual-wielding since dual wielding is so nerfy as-is and make a pretty beastly ranged damage pump with some nifty skills.
Well lets do a side by side of the two, using Marrowind as a base;
Archers

* In-game Description: Archers are fighters specializing in long-range combat and rapid movement. Opponents are kept at distance by ranged weapons and swift maneuver, and engaged in melee with sword and shield after the enemy is wounded and weary.
* Specialization: Combat
* Attributes: Agility, Strength

* Major Skills:
Marksman, Long Blade, Block, Athletics, Light Armor
* Minor Skills:
Unarmored, Spear, Restoration, Sneak, Medium Armor
Scouts
* In-game Description: Scouts rely on stealth to survey routes and opponents, using ranged weapons and skirmish tactics when forced to fight. By contrast with barbarians, in combat scouts tend to be cautious and methodical, rather than impulsive.
* NPC Scouts generally offer training in their 3 highest skills.
* Specialization: Combat
* Attributes: Speed, Endurance

* Major Skills:
Sneak, Long Blade, Medium Armor, Athletics, Block

* Minor Skills:
Marksman, Alchemy, Alteration, Light Armor, Unarmored

This is the result of a hybrid class for in game;

Specialization: Combat
Attributes: Agility/Speed, Strength, Endurance

Master Skills: (Both classes have as a major skill)
Longblade, Block, Athletics
Expert Skills: (One class has a major skill and the other as a minor skill)
Marksman, Light Armor, Sneak, Medium Armor,
Journeymen Skills: (One class has as a major skill, or both classes have as a minor skill)
Unarmored
Novice Skills: (One Class has as a minor skill)
Spear, Restoration, Alchemy, Alteration

Looking at this a I see a dex based class that doesn't rely on spell casting, but rather on swiftly and silently positioning themselves to deal with threats on the battlefield. They are competent at close quarters combat, but they are no tank. They try to only engage weak prey. This lets me think they care less about hit points and more about damage, about strength.

This leads me to believe that they'd have full base attack bonus and that their primary role will be one of a damage dealer. Without the magic features I think that maybe we need to more rabidly ascended the archery feat tree.

Samfool

2011-01-24, 08:39 AM

I will keep a list of all the classes and what not and mash them all into a PDF or a Document.

So out of all the classes, which ones do we have done?

Stealth
Thief
Agent
Assassin
Acrobat
Monk
Pilgrim
Bard

Combat
Warrior
Barbarian
Crusader
Knight
Scout
Archer
Rogue

Magic
Mage
Sorcerer
Healer
Battlemage
Witchhunter
Spellsword
Nightblade

How about races?

Player Race Description
Argonian (More than one sub-race?)

Agacephs
Archeins
Paatru
Sarpa
Nagas

Breton
Dark Elf
High Elf
Imperial
Khajiit (Sub Races?)

Ohmes
Ohmes-raht
Suthay
Suthay-raht
Cathay
Cathay-raht
Tojay
Tojay-raht
Alfiq
Alfiq-raht
Dagi
Dagi-raht
Pahmar
Pahmar-raht
Senche
Senche-raht
Mane

Nord
Orc
Redguard
Wood Elf

Half-Races?

Necro_EX

2011-01-24, 09:22 AM

Othniel Edden - I started on it last night and came to that same conclusion. What I'm building is something like a survivalist bow-sniper. Full BAB, 2 good saves, and the features are going to be worked toward things like brutal shot, precision based combat. To make up for the lack of spell casting, I'm thinking a beefier animal companion than ranger (So, full-on druid animal companion) and maybe something like sneak attack? This would synergize pretty well with the Hircine Huntsman prc that I wrote up and a 10scout/10Hunt would drop some pretty beastly damage.

Samfool - I'm working on scout, Othniel is working on spellsword, and Codemus has two different versions of battlemage done. I think those are the only base classes at the moment.

As for races, we could use my versions of each, which still could use some tweaking. Also, I only have the Suthay-Raht Khajiit and whichever Argonian breed was available in Morrowind.

Since I'll be working on classes if someone else (Sam?) wants to work on the races, that'd be swell. Also, for whoever gets to working on those, don't be afraid to make certain Khajiit powerful races or even written up as plain monsters, a handful are quadrepedal, after all.

Hmmm...I think I might make a template for the Mane, could be pretty plot-centric for an Elsweyr based campaign.

EDIT: Also, Enchanter's done. I edited it into my earlier post up there. ^
Everyone liking it? I tried to make it viable as a PC option, even though it was an NPC class in the games. Also, I haven't assigned its spells per day. :/

EDITEDIT: I'm kinda stuck on scout...someone else wanna take a crack at it? I'm having trouble with the features...I'm trying to keep from just making it ranger, although that's basically what it should be, looks like. I tried giving it the rogue's sneak attack, but I think that might step on rogue's toes a bit, but it needs something to work well with Huntsman, I'd think. :/

Maybe, here's a suggestion for it...take ranger, remove the spell casting and favored enemy, then throw in the scout's (Complete Adventurer) skirmish and movement bonuses? Or...maybe the favored terrain from Conan?

Othniel Edden

2011-01-24, 10:46 AM

Some type of modified favored enemy rather than a sneak attack might work. Use Know ledges to get bonuses against them instead. Full animal companion sounds good in lack of many of the class features. I'd stay away from CA Scout, as that will step on the rogues toes.

We'll I'm at it I got some ideas for healer. I kinda want to turn them into spell casting versions of monks. give them the monk's(Dnd's) unarmored ability with their wisdom score. I plan to write up two of these, one more like the oblivion class where they get destruction for self defense, and this where they some pacifistic unarmed, unarmored defensive spellcasters. They'd get the option to wield a non-blade weapon in either way, through a flavor clause preventing them from wielding the knife outside of surgery. They'd either get a spontaneous like progression, or spontaneous casting of healing spells.

Samfool

2011-01-24, 10:50 AM

Samfool - I'm working on scout, Othniel is working on spellsword, and Codemus has two different versions of battlemage done. I think those are the only base classes at the moment.

As for races, we could use my versions of each, which still could use some tweaking. Also, I only have the Suthay-Raht Khajiit and whichever Argonian breed was available in Morrowind.

Since I'll be working on classes if someone else (Sam?) wants to work on the races, that'd be swell. Also, for whoever gets to working on those, don't be afraid to make certain Khajiit powerful races or even written up as plain monsters, a handful are quadrepedal, after all.

Hmmm...I think I might make a template for the Mane, could be pretty plot-centric for an Elsweyr based campaign.

I can handle the races if you want. Did you want any half-races or no?

Upon further inspection, here is what I think could be compatible from what I looked up and whatnot-
Fertility Chart (http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j451/Samfool/Fertility.jpg)

Othniel Edden

2011-01-24, 11:00 AM

Bretons are already sort of a half-race. Its more like they are Elf-Touched though.:amused:

Ogres would be a nice addition. (More oblivion based) *day dreams about Malacath prestige classes and a witchhunter trying to track them down by the smell*

Samfool

2011-01-24, 11:24 AM

I can make a chart of minor-races,
ogres, goblins, reiklings (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Bloodmoon:Riekling#Rieklings), sloads and minotaurs perhaps? I can even get obscure things like the Imga of Valenwood or the Akivirian Tang Mo if you really wanna get creative xD

Bretons are a mix of Nedic and Aldemer, but they are more like "Elf Touched"
just like how Orsimer are no longer really "Elves" because they are changed so much.

Necro_EX

2011-01-24, 12:35 PM

Alright, well I'm gonna dump my races here, so those are out there.

Altmer

Altmer Racial Traits

+2Intelligence, -2 Strength, -2 Dexterity. Altmer are intelligent, but lack strength and are less-than-agile especially compared to their Bosmeri cousins.

Medium: As medium-sized creatures, Altmer have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Altmer base land speed is 30 feet.

Resistance to disease 75%. This functions as the Bosmer trait of the same name.

weakness to shock 25, frost 25, and fire 50. Altmer take time-and-a-quarter damage from frost and shock damage, and time-and-a-half damage from fire.

Weakness to magicka. (-2 on all saves vs. spells and spell-like abilities) All Altmer are imbued with natural magical talent, but this is much like a double edged sword. Their bodies are natural conductors of magicka which grants them great magical potential, but also leaves them open to the effects of the spells of others.

Magical aptitude. Altmer are naturally gifted in the arcane arts. An Altmer character receives bonus spells as though their Intelligence modifier were +1 higher than it actually is.

+2 racial bonus on spot, listen, craft, and spellcraft checks. Altmer have naturally keen senses and are natural artisans, both arcane and mundane.
Automatic Languages: Common (Tamrielic) and Altmer Bonus Languages:
Aelydic

Favored Class: Wizard. An Altmer's wizard class does not count when determining whether or not she would take an experience point penalty for multiclassing.

Argonian (whichever variant was in MW)

Argonian Racial Traits

Male: +4 Dexterity, -2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma, -2 Constitution. Female: +2 Intelligence, -2 Constitution, -2 Charisma. Argonians in the male life-phase are very quick and stealthy, and Argonians in the female life-phase are intelligent and have great skill in magic.

Medium: As medium creatures Argonians have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.

Agonian base land speed is 40 feet.

Immunity to poison

Resistance to disease 75%.

Argonians can breathe even when fully submerged in water.

+2 natural armor. Argonians are sheathed in many fine and often lustrous scales.

Weapon/armor proficiency: Argonians are naturally proficient with the shortspear, longspear, ranseur, halberd, guisarme, glaive, spear, and medium armor. Argonians are stalkers and hunters in their homeland, Black Marsh, and are trained to give themselves whatever advantage is necessary.

Automatic Languages: Common (Tamrielic) and Argonian

Favored Class: Wizard (female) or scout (male). Argonian females may ignore their wizard class for the purpose of determining experience point penalties for multiclassing, and males may do the same for the scout class.

The gender differences are based on the in-game stats, but could probably be removed.

Bosmer

Bosmer Racial Traits

+4 Dexterity, -2 Strength, -2 Constitution: Bosmer are incredibly dexterous, but lack the strength and resilience of many of the other common races.

Medium: As medium creatures, Bosmer have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.

Bosmer base land speed is 30 feet.

Beast Tongue 1/day. This supernatural spell-like ability functions as the Speak With Animals spell, caster level is ½ the Bosmer’s HD (minimum 1).

Resistance to disease 75%. Anytime a Bosmer would be exposed to a disease, roll d%. If the roll fails, make the appropriate saves as usual, otherwise the Bosmer ignores the disease.

Weapon/Armor Proficiency: Bosmer are naturally proficient with the shortbow, longbow, and light armor.

+2 racial bonus to spot, listen, jump, hide, and move silently checks. Bosmer have acute senses and are naturally gifted sneaks.

Favored Class: Ranger. A multiclass Bosmer’s Ranger class does not count when determining whether or not she would take an experience point penalty for multiclassing.

Breton

Breton Racial Traits

+2 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom, -2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution. Bretons are intelligent and wise, but clumsy and frail.

Medium: As medium creatures Bretons have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.

Breton base land speed is 30 feet.

Dragon Skin. This supernatural spell-like ability acts as the shield spell, caster level is the Breton's HD.

Resist Magicka. Bretons receive a +2 racial bonus on saves vs. spells and
spell-like abilities.

Magical Aptitude. Bretons are naturally gifted in the arcane arts. A Breton character reveives bonus spells as though his intelligence modifier is +1 higher than it actually is.

Automatic Languages: Common (Tamrielic) Bonus Languages: Any. Bretons tend to be studious and are likely to know any language, especially those related to his or her particular area of study.

Favored Class: Wizard. A multiclass Breton's wizard class does not count when determining whether or not he takes an experience point penalty when multiclassing.

Dunmer

Dunmer Racial Traits

+2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution (Female), -2 Charisma (Male): Dunmer are dexterous and agile, but tend to be frail and often have surly attitudes. A Dunmer’s agility makes him naturally better at stealth and archery.
Medium: As medium creatures, Dunmer have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.

Dunmer base land speed is 30 feet.

Resistance to fire 10.

Summon Ancestral Guardian 1/day. Once per day, as a standard action, any Dunmer may summon an Ancestral Guardian. This is a supernatural spell-like ability, provokes attacks of opportunity, and the summon lasts for 1 minute (10 rounds). The Ancestral Guardian defends the Dunmer that summoned it to the best of its ability and can receive commands.

Weapon/Armor Proficiency: All Dunmer are naturally proficient with the longsword, dagger, shortsword, shortbow, longbow, and light armor.

+2 racial bonus on spot and listen checks, and +2 on sense motive checks. Dunmer have fine senses, as all elves do, and their natural tendency toward paranoia makes them excellent judges of intent.

Favored Class:Wizard. A multiclass Dunmer’s wizard class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing. Wizardry comes natural to Dunmer, especially ecokation and conjuration.

Imperial

Imperial Racial Traits

+2 Charisma. Imperials are natural diplomats and merchants, and as such their society has a certain proclivity for high charisma.

Medium: As medium creatures Imperials have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.

Imperial base land speed is 30 feet.

Star of the West 1/day. This supernatural spell like ability demoralizes a target within 30 feet (must be visible to the Imperial and within earshot) and bestows the fatigued condition should the target fail a will save DC 10+1/2 the Imperial's HD + Charisma modifier for the duration of the encounter or until otherwise removed.

Voice of the Emporer 1/day. This supernatural spell like ability acts as the charm spell, caster level is 1/2 the Imperial's HD (minimum 1).
Weapon/Armor Proficiency: All Imperials are proficient in the use of the longsword, club, hammer, and light armor. Most Imperials receive military training starting at a young age and this knowledge carries them through trials and tribulations.

Automatic Languages: Common (Tamrielic) Bonus Languages: Any. Imperials are native of the heartland of the empire, Cyrodiil and they see traffic from all other regions of the empire.

Favored Class: Any. An Imperial's first class does not count when determining whether or not he receives an experience point penalty when multiclassing.

Khajiit (Suthay-Raht)

Khajiit(Suthay-Raht) Racial Traits

+2 Dexterity, -2 Wisdom. Suthay-Raht Khajiit are nimble and agile like many cats, however they also tend to be curious and naive to a fault like many cats.

Medium: As medium creatures Suthay-Raht have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.

Khajiit (Suthay-Raht) base land speed is 30 feet.

Eye of Fear 1/day. This supernatural spell-like ability allows the Khajiit to demoralize a target humanoid within 30 feet (Must have clear line of sight). This effect confers a -2 penalty to all attack rolls and skill checks made for the duration of the encounter. This is a fear effect and a will save DC 10+1/2 the Khajiit's HD + Charisma modifier negates the effect.

Darkvision 120 feet.

+4 racial bonus to jump checks, +2 racial bonus to tumble, hide, move silently, spot, listen, and open lock checks, tumble is always a class skill for Suthay-Raht Khajiit. Suthay-Raht Khajiit have many feline characteristics such as amazing dexterity and a natural stealthiness.

Claw natural weapons.A Suthay-Raht is considered armed even when unarmed, and deals 1d4 damage with a successful unarmed attack

Weapon/armor proficiency: Khajiit are well armed with only their claws, but many are also trained with use of the dagger. Khajiit are automatically proficient with the dagger, kukri, short sword, and light armor.

Automatic languages: Common (Tamrielic) and Khajiiti

Favored Class: Rogue. A multiclass Khajiit's rogue class does not count when determining whether or not she takes an experience point penalty when multiclassing.

Nord

Nord Racial Traits

+2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma.Nords are powerful and resilient, but lack social articulation.

Medium: As medium creatures Nords have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.

Nord base land speed is 30 feet.

Resist Shock 10

Immunity to cold damage and effects from natural cold.

Woad 1/day. This supernatural spell like ability acts as the shield spell, caster level is 1/2 the Nord's HD.

Thunder Fist 1/day. This supernatural spell like ability acts as the shocking grasp spell, caster level is 1/2 the Nord's HD, except that it deals cold damage and is in addition to an unnarmed attack.

Weapon/Armor Proficiency: Nords are naturally proficient in the use of the handaxe, battleaxe, greataxe, club, greatclub, light hammer, warhammer, long sword, greatsword, spear, poleaxe, and may treat the bastard sword as a martial weapon instead of exotic. They are also automatically proficient with medium armor, but not shields.

Automatic Languages: Common (Tamrielic)

Favored Class: Fighter or Barbarian. A multiclass Nord's fighter or barbarian class (whichever class the nord enters first) does not count when determining whether or not he receives an experience point penalty when multiclassing.

Orsimer

Orc Racial Traits

+2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Charisma, -2 Intelligence. Orcs are strong and hearty, but rarely fit in to social situations as well as the other common races, and lack intelligence.

Medium: As medium creatures, orcs have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.

Orc base land speed is 30 feet.

Resist Magicka. Orcs have a +2 on saves vs. spells and spell-like abilities.

Berserk. Orcs may rage 1/day even with no class that grants access to this feature. An orc barbarian receives the Destructive Rage feat as well.

Automatic Languages: Common (Tamrielic) and Orc.

Favored Class: Barbarian. A multiclass Orc's barbarian class does not count when determining whether or not he would take an experience point penalty when multiclassing.

Redguard

Redguard Racial Traits

+2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence, -2 Wisdom. Redguards are great warriors, but lack magical aptitude.

Medium: As medium creatures Redguards have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.

Redguard base land speed is 30 feet.

Resistance to poison and disease 75%.

Adrenaline Rush 1/day. This ability allows a Redguard to rage once per day, even without having levels in a class that gives access to the rage feature. A Redguard Barbarian receives the Extend Rage feat, as well.

Weapon/Armor Proficiency: Redguard are proficient with the handaxe, club, light hammer, battleaxe, warhammer, longsword, short sword, dagger, rapier, medium and heavy armor.

Automatic Languages: Common (Tamrielic)

Favored Class: Fighter. A multiclass Redguard's fighter class does not count when determining whether or not he receives an experience point penalty when multiclassing.

Now, a few things about those. These were some of my first attempts at homebrewing, so they might not be all that great, I made them based on the in-game statistics for MW which is why a couple have gender-based differences, and %resistances.

I think the %resistances could easily be swapped out for +2 or +4 bonuses v. disease/poison/whathaveyou, also the favored classes were obviously based on the core 3.5 ones, which we're obviously not using now, so that field can be ignored, basically.

Also, I kinda like how Pathfinder handled favored classes...perhaps we could do that? It'd certainly help fit the feel of the TES games.

I'll probably keep tooling with scout, but I think I might give a crack at either crusader or something else...might whip up a prc, I seem to be more comfortable with them for some reason.

Codemus

2011-01-24, 02:18 PM

Well, for completions sake, I'll compile all the different battlemage stuff into one post.

Base class

Battlemage

Adventures:
Characteristics:
Alignment:
Religion:
Background:
Races:
Other Classes:
Role:
Abilities: Intelligence is the primary ability for a Battlemage, as it improves his spellcasting power. Strength is secondary, as it increases the DC of a Battlemage’s spells and helps in close combat. A high Constitution improves the Battlemage’s hit points.

Hit Die: d8

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|0th|1st|2nd|3rd|4t h|5th
1st|+0|+2|+0|+2|Armored Mage (light), Focused Discipline|3|2|-|-|-|-
2nd|+1|+3|+0|+3|Combat Casting, Arcane Might|4|3|-|-|-|-
3rd| +2|+3|+1|+3|Bonus Feat|5|4|-|-|-|-|-
4th| +3|+4|+1|+4|Arcane Armor|6|5|-|-|-|-|-
5th| +3|+4|+1|+4|Armored Mage (medium)|6|5|2|-|-|-
6th| +4|+5|+2|+5|Bonus Feat|6|6|3|-|-|-
7th| +5|+5|+2|+5||6|6|5|-|-|-
8th| +6/+1|+6|+2|+6|Arcane Might, Arcane Armor|6|7|6|-|-|-
9th| +6/+1|+6|+3|+6|Bonus Feat|6|7|6|2|-|-
10th| +7/+2|+7|+3|+7|Armored Mage (heavy)|6|8|7|3|-|-
11th| +8/+3|+7|+3|+7||6|8|7|5|-|-
12th| +9/+4|+8|+4|+8|Bonus Feat, Arcane Armor|6|8|7|6|-|-
13th| +9/+4|+8|+4|+8||6|9|8|6|2|-
14th| +10/+5|+9|+4|+9|Arcane Might|6|9|8|7|3|-
15th| +11/+6/+1|+9|+5|+9|Bonus Feat|6|9|8|7|5|-
16th| +12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+10|Arcane Armor|6|9|9|8|6|-
17th| +12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+10||6|10|9|8|6|2
18th| +13/+8/+3|+11|+6|+11|Bonus Feat|6|10|9|8|7|3
19th| +14/+9/+4|+11|+6|+11||6|10|10|9|7|5
20th| +15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+12|Arcane Might, Arcane Armor|6|10|10|10|8|6
[/table]
Class Skills (2 + Int modifier per level, x4 at 1st level): Climb, Concentration, Craft, Jump, Knowledge (Arcane), Ride, Spellcraft, Swim.

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Battlemage.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The Battlemage gains proficiency with all simple and martial weapons, with all armor and all shields.

Spells: A Battlemage casts arcane spells drawn from the Alteration and Destruction spell lists. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time.
To learn or cast a spell, a Battlemage must have a Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level (Int 10 for 0-th level spells, Int 11 for 1st-level spells, and so forth). The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a Battlemage’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the Battlemage’s intelligence modifier.
Like other spellcasters, a Battlemage can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on the table above. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Intelligence score.

Armored Mage (light): Normally, armor of any type interferes with an arcane spellcaster’s gestures. However, Battlemages have specialized training, allowing them to ignore the hindrance of wearing light armor and light shields.
At 5th level, this covers medium armor and heavy shields.
At 10th level, this covers heavy armor and tower shields.

Arcane Might: Battlemages are skilled in supplementing their martial strength with spell craft. Battlemages get a +1 Bonus to their strength at 2nd level. This bonus increases to +2 at 8th level, to +3 at 14th level, and +4 at 20th level.

Focused Discipline: Battlemages focus intently on a few magical schools, to the exclusion of all else. Due to their narrow focus, they may add their strength bonus to the DC of any arcane spells they cast.

Combat Casting: At 2nd level Battlemages get Combat Casting as a bonus feat for free.

Bonus Feat: At 3rd level, a Battlemage gets a bonus feat drawn from the Fighter Bonus Feat list. The Battlemage gains additional bonus feats at levels 6, 9, 12, 15, and 18.

Arcane Armor (su): To shore up their defenses, it is a common practice for Battlemages to invest their armor with a large amount of their personal power. The Battlemage gains a +1 deflection bonus to AC when wearing any kind of armor. This bonus increases by an additional +1 at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th levels.
At 8th level, they add their intelligence modifier to all saving throws.
At 12th level, the Battlemage gains Light Fortification.
At 16th level, the fortification improves to Heavy.
At 20th level, they become Immune to Critical Hits.

You may notice that Arcane Armor is different here than in the prcs. Just figured I'd spice up the basic class, see how this looked.

10th level prc

Requirements: To qualify to become a Battlemage, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Base Attack Bonus: +4
Skills: Concentration 4 ranks, Knowledge (Arcane) 4 ranks
Feats: Combat Casting
Spells or Spell-Like Abilities: Arcane caster level 1st.
Special: Must join the Mages Guild and study with a willing instructor.

Hit Die: d8

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Spells per Day/Spells Known
1st|+0|+2|+0|+2|Armored Mage (light), Arcane Might|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
2nd|+1|+3|+0|+3|Bonus Feat|-
3rd|+2|+3|+1|+3|Focused Discipline, Arcane Might|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
4th|+3|+4|+1|+4|Bonus Feat|-
5th|+3|+4|+1|+4|Armored Mage (medium), Arcane Might|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
6th|+4|+5|+2|+5|Bonus Feat|-
7th|+5|+5|+2|+5|Arcane Might|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
8th|+6|+6|+2|+6|Bonus Feat|-
9th|+6|+6|+3|+6|Arcane Might|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
10th|+7|+7|+3|+7|Arcane Armor, Armored Mage (heavy)|-
[/table]
Class Skills (2 + Int modifier per level): Climb, Concentration, Craft, Jump, Knowledge (Arcane), Ride, Spellcraft, Swim.

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Battlemage.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The Battlemage gains proficiency with martial weapons and with light armor and shields.

Spells per Day/Spells Known: At every odd-numbered level, a Battlemage gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class to which he belonged before adding the prestige class level. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (such as the bonus feat sometimes gained by a wizard). If he had more than one arcane spellcasting class, before becoming a Battlemage, he must decide which class to add each level for the purpose of determining spells per day and spells known.

Armored Mage (light): Normally, armor of any type interferes with an arcane spellcaster’s gestures. However, Battlemages have specialized training, allowing them to ignore the hindrance of wearing light armor and light shields.
At 5th level, this covers medium armor and heavy shields.
At 10th level, this covers heavy armor and tower shields.

Arcane Might (su): Battlemages are skilled in supplementing their martial strength with spell craft. Battlemages get a +1 Bonus to their strength, increasing by an additional +1 for every odd level of Battlemage the he takes.

Bonus Feat (ex): At 2nd level, a Battlemage gets a bonus feat drawn from either the Fighter bonus feats or Wizard bonus feats. The Battlemage gains additional bonus feat at 4th, 6th, and 8th levels.

Focused Discipline (ex): Battlemages focus intently on a few magical schools, to the exclusion of all else. Due to their narrow focus, they may add their strength bonus to the DC of any arcane spells they cast of the Destruction or Alteration schools.

Arcane Armor (su): To shore up their defenses, many Master Battlemages invest their armor with a large amount of their personal power. The Battlemage gains a +2 deflection bonus to AC when wearing any kind of armor, as well as a bonus to their saving throws equal to their Intelligence modifier.

And 5 level prc.
b]Requirements[/b]: To qualify to become a Battlemage, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Base Attack Bonus: +4
Skills: Concentration 4 ranks, Knowledge (Arcane) 4 ranks
Feats: Combat Casting
Spells or Spell-Like Abilities: Arcane caster level 1st.
Special: Must join the Mages Guild and study with a willing instructor.

Hit Die: d8

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Spells per Day/Spells Known
1st|+0|+2|+0|+2|Armored Mage, Arcane Might|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
2nd|+1|+3|+0|+3|Bonus Feat|-
3rd|+2|+3|+1|+3|Focused Discipline|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
4th|+3|+4|+1|+4|Bonus Feat|-
5th|+3|+4|+1|+4|Arcane Armor|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
[/table]
Class Skills (2 + Int modifier per level): Climb, Concentration, Craft, Jump, Knowledge (Arcane), Ride, Spellcraft, Swim.

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Battlemage.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The Battlemage gains proficiency with martial weapons and with light armor and shields.

Spells per Day/Spells Known: At every odd-numbered level, a Battlemage gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class to which he belonged before adding the prestige class level. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (such as the bonus feat sometimes gained by a wizard). If he had more than one arcane spellcasting class, before becoming a Battlemage, he must decide which class to add each level for the purpose of determining spells per day and spells known.

Armored Mage (ex): Normally, armor of any type interferes with an arcane spellcaster’s gestures. However, Battlemages have specialized training, allowing them to ignore the hindrance of wearing light armor and light shields.

Arcane Might (su): Battlemages are skilled in supplementing their martial strength with spell craft. Battlemages get a +1 Bonus to their strength, increasing by an additional +1 for each additional level of Battlemage the he takes.

Bonus Feat (ex): At 2nd level, a Battlemage gets a bonus feat drawn from either the Fighter bonus feats or Wizard bonus feats. The Battlemage gains additional bonus feat at 4th level.

Focused Discipline (ex): Battlemages focus intently on a few magical schools, to the exclusion of all else. Due to their narrow focus, they may add their strength bonus to the DC of any arcane spells they cast of the Destruction or Alteration schools.

Arcane Armor (su): To shore up their defenses, many Master Battlemages invest their armor with a large amount of their personal power. The Battlemage gains a +2 deflection bonus to AC when wearing any kind of armor, as well as a bonus to their saving throws equal to their Intelligence modifier.

Samfool

2011-01-24, 02:44 PM

I am almost done with the base races, thank you for giving me the ones you made, it made making the races a lot easier ^^
I did have to butcher some of them, namely the Argonian.

I should have it up by tomorrow!

Necro_EX

2011-01-24, 02:51 PM

Alright, then. :D

Like I said, they were pretty rough, so gut 'em all ya please.

I need to get off my bum and get some work done, but I'm too enthralled in this documentary at the moment.
I promise I'll do something by the end of the day.

EDIT:
Here's what I've got on the scout so far:

Hit Die: d8

Class Skills

The Scout’s class skills (and the key ability for each) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Disable Device (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Nature) (Int), Knowledge (Geography) (Int), Knowledge (Dungeoneering ) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Use Rope (Dex)

Skill points at each level: 6+int modifier

Class Features

All the following are the class features of the scout.

{table=head]Level | BAB | F | R | W | Special
1 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 0 | Track, Wild Empathy
2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 0 | Enhanced Archery
3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 1 | Endurance
4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 1 | Animal Companion
5 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 1 | Enhanced Archery II
6 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 2 |
7 | 7 | 5 | 5 | 2 | Woodland Stride
8 | 8 | 6 | 6 | 2 | Swift Tracker
9 | 9 | 6 | 6 | 3 | Evasion
10 | 10 | 7 | 7 | 3 | Enhanced Archery III
11 | 11 | 7 | 7 | 3 |
12 | 12 | 8 | 8 | 4 |
13 | 13 | 8 | 8 | 4 | Camouflage
14 | 14 | 9 | 9 | 4 |
15 | 15 | 9 | 9 | 5 | Enhanced Archery IV
16 | 16 | 10 | 10 | 5 |
17 | 17 | 10 | 10 | 5 | Hide in Plain Sight
18 | 18 | 11 | 11 | 6 |
19 | 19 | 11 | 11 | 6 |
20 | 20 | 12 | 12 | 6 | Master Archer[/table]

Track: At first level the scout receives track as a bonus feat.

Wild Empathy: Same as the ranger feature of the same name.

Endurance: At level three the scout gains endurance as a bonus feat.

Enhanced Archery: Starting at second level the scout is treated as though he posessed the rapid shot feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites for this feat. This feature is only active if the scout is in light or no armor and is not encumbered.

Enhanced Archery II: Beginning at level 5 the scout is treated as though he posessed the shot on the run feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites for this feat. This feature is only active so long as the scout is is wearing light or no armor and is not encumbered.

Enhanced Archery III: Beginning at level ten the scout is treated as though he posessed the Improved Precise Shot feat even if he does not meet the prerequisites for this feat. This feature is only active so long as the scout is wearing light or no armor and is not encumbered.

Enhanced Archery IV: Beginning at level thirteen the scout is treated as though he posessed the Improved Rapid Shot feat even if he does not posess the prerequisites for this feat. This feature is only active so long as the scout is wearing light or no armor and is not encumbered.

Master Archer: At twentieth level the scout is a peerless archer. The scout is now treated as though he posesses the improved critical feat for any bow that he is proficient in the use of. Additionally, the scout adds his wisdom modifier to both his ranged attack rolls and his ranged damage rolls. This feature is only active so long as the scout is wearing light or no armor and is not encumbered.

Hide in Plain Sight: Same as the ranger feature of the same name.

Favoured Terrain: At 1st level, the scout gains a favoured
terrain type, this may be any terrain. At 7th level, 13th level and 19th level he may choose an additional favoured terrain. All the benefits
derived from favoured terrain are extraordinary abilities.
Any time a scout is in one of his favoured terrains and
wearing no heavier than light armour, he gains certain benefits
as follows:
+1 circumstance bonus to all Hide, Listen, Move Silently,
Search, Spot and Survival checks.
+1 dodge bonus to AC. The scout is
adept at using the natural features of the terrain to his
advantage in combat.
At 4th level and every four levels thereafter, the scout's favoured terrain bonus for his first favoured terrain increases by
+1. His second favoured terrain bonus increases by +1 at 12th
and 17th levels and his third favoured terrain bonus increases by
+1 at 19th level.
The scout gains additional benefits as his favoured terrain
bonuses increase. If he has a favoured terrain bonus of at least +2
for the terrain he is in, he gains a +10 feet circumstance bonus
to his movement. If he has a favoured terrain bonus of at least
+3 for the terrain he is in, he may use the Hide skill even if the
terrain does not usually grant cover or concealment. If he has
a favoured terrain bonus of at least +4 for the terrain he is in,
his movement bonus within that terrain increases to +20 feet,
replacing and not stacking with the +10 feet bonus gained at +2.
If he has a favoured terrain bonus of at least +5 for the terrain he
is in, he can use the Hide skill even while being observed.

Now, you likely noticed the lack of favored enemy. It's starting to look pretty beefy, but I do think it still needs that to make it a viable choice. However, how about the favored terrain from Conan? I think it might be an interesting change for people who haven't played Conan and it's a little more reliable than favored enemy.

So, what say ye?

EDIT: Threw in favored terrain. The last bit (+5= hide in plain sight) is redundant with the hide in plain sight feature...any suggestions of what to replace hide in plain sight with?

Samfool

2011-01-24, 05:15 PM

Favorite terrain could work, that would make sense since they need to know their surroundings

Milo v3

2011-01-24, 06:33 PM

Codemus

2011-01-24, 07:59 PM

Favoured Terrain brings me back to my borderer days. I like it.:smallbiggrin:
Maybe an feature which helps it get better precision aiming. Aiming at specific points on the enemy better.
This slightly immitates the zoom feature when you get your Bow skill high enough in Oblivions.

Sounds like a good idea. Here is what I came up with, it could be dropped in around 5th to 10th level I think. Kinda struggling with it though. Any thoughts?

Called Shot (ex): All Scouts gain some knowledge of basic anatomy, allowing them to place their ranged attacks with deadly and painful precision. The Scout may use a Standard Action to make a single ranged attack at the Scouts highest attack roll modifier, focusing specifically on a certain location on the enemy. The Scout may suffer a penalty to the attack roll for small targets.

{table=head]Location|Attack Penalty
Head|-6
Torso|0
Arms|-4
Legs|-4
Hands|-6
Feet|-6
Eye|-8
[/table]

Taking damage at these locations can affect the enemy with debilitating effects, as shown below. Some effects can be resisted, and the DC for such would be 10 + 1/4th Scout level + Damage caused to the location.

{table=head]Location|Effect|Resist
Head|Stunned|Yes (Fort)
Torso|Dazed|Yes (Fort)
Arms||Yes (Ref)
Legs|Prone|Yes (Fort)
Hands|Disarmed|Yes (Ref)
Feet|Slowed|No
Eye|---|---
[/table]

Kinda ran outta steam on the effects table. Just dosen't seem right, but I dunno what else to do with it.

Necro_EX

2011-01-24, 08:11 PM

Looks good, we could throw that in at, say...level 6?

Maybe have a headshot always be a crit? Or rather a threat, I guess.
I'd be hard pressed as a DM to describe a head-shot on something not wearing a helmet that only stuns the target.

Codemus

2011-01-24, 08:52 PM

Cool. I'll fiddle with it some more. Oh, and I went throught the class and fixed it up a bit. Adding in some rules descriptions and whatnot.

Hit Die: d8

{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special
1 |+ 1 | +2 | +2 | +0 | Track, Wild Empathy, Favored Terrain
2 | +2 | +3 | +3 | +0 | Enhanced Archery
3 | +3 | +3 | +3 | +1 | Endurance
4 | +4 | +4 | +4 | +1 | Animal Companion
5 | +5 | +4 | +4 | +1 | Enhanced Archery II
6 | +6/+1 | +5 | +5 | +2 | Called Shot
7 | +7/+2 | +5 | +5 | +2 | Woodland Stride
8 | +8/+3 | +6 | +6 | +2 | Swift Tracker
9 | +9/+4 | +6 | +6 | +3 | Evasion
10 | +10/+5 | +7 |+ 7 | +3 | Enhanced Archery III
11 | +11/+6/+1 | +7 | +7 | +3 |
12 | +12/+7/+2 | +8 | +8 | +4 |
13 | +13/+8/+3 | +8 | +8 | +4 | Camouflage
14 | +14/+9/+4 | +9 | +9 | +4 |
15 | +15/+10/+5 | +9 | +9 | +5 | Enhanced Archery IV
16 | +16/+11/+6/+1 | +10 | +10 | +5 |
17 | +17/+12/+7/+2 | +10 | +10 | +5 | Hide in Plain Sight
18 | +18/+13/+8/+3 | +11 | +11 | +6 |
19 | +19/+14/+9/+4 | +11 | +11 | +6 |
20 | +20/+15 /+10/+5| +12 | +12 | +6 | Master Archer[/table]
Class Skills (6+Int modifier, x4 at first level): The Scout’s class skills (and the key ability for each) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Disable Device (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Nature) (Int), Knowledge (Geography) (Int), Knowledge (Dungeoneering ) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Use Rope (Dex)

Class Features:
All the following are the class features of the scout.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The Scout gains proficiency with

Track: At first level the scout receives track as a bonus feat.

Wild Empathy: A Scout can use body language, vocalizations, and demeanor to improve the attitude of an animal (such as a bear or a monitor lizard). This ability functions just like a Diplomacy check to improve the attitude of a person. The Scout rolls 1d20 and adds his ranger level and his Charisma modifier to determine the wild empathy check result. The typical domestic animal has a starting attitude of indifferent, while wild animals are usually unfriendly.
To use wild empathy, the Scout and the animal must be able to study each other, which means that they must be within 30 feet of one another under normal visibility conditions. Generally, influencing an animal in this way takes 1 minute, but as with influencing people, it might take more or less time.
The Scout can also use this ability to influence a magical beast with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2 (such as a basilisk or a girallon), but he takes a –4 penalty on the check.

Favored Terrain: At 1st level, the scout gains a favored
terrain type, this may be any terrain. At 7th level, 13th level and 19th level he may choose an additional favored terrain. All the benefits
derived from favored terrain are extraordinary abilities.
any time a scout is in one of his favored terrains and
wearing no heavier than light Armour, he gains certain benefits
as follows:
+1 circumstance bonus to all Hide, Listen, Move Silently,
Search, Spot and Survival checks.
+1 dodge bonus to AC. The scout is
adept at using the natural features of the terrain to his
advantage in combat.
At 4th level and every four levels thereafter, the scout's favored terrain bonus for his first favored terrain increases by
+1. His second favored terrain bonus increases by +1 at 12th
and 17th levels and his third favored terrain bonus increases by
+1 at 19th level.
The scout gains additional benefits as his favored terrain
bonuses increase. If he has a favored terrain bonus of at least +2
for the terrain he is in, he gains a +10 feet circumstance bonus
to his movement. If he has a favored terrain bonus of at least
+3 for the terrain he is in, he may use the Hide skill even if the
terrain does not usually grant cover or concealment. If he has
a favored terrain bonus of at least +4 for the terrain he is in,
his movement bonus within that terrain increases to +20 feet,
replacing and not stacking with the +10 feet bonus gained at +2.
If he has a favored terrain bonus of at least +5 for the terrain he
is in, he can use the Hide skill even while being observed.

Endurance: At level three the scout gains endurance as a bonus feat.

Enhanced Archery: Starting at second level the scout is treated as though he possessed the rapid shot feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites for this feat. This feature is only active if the scout is in light or no armor and is not encumbered.

Animal Companion (ex): At 4th level, a ranger gains an animal companion selected from the following list: badger, camel, dire rat, dog, riding dog, eagle, hawk, horse (light or heavy), owl, pony, snake (small or medium viper), or wolf. If the DM’s campaign takes place wholly or partly in an aquatic environment, the DM may add the following creatures to the ranger’s list of options: crocodile, porpoise, Medium shark, and squid. This animal is a loyal companion that accompanies the ranger on his adventures as appropriate for it’s kind. (For instance, an aquatic creature can’t adventure with a ranger on land and shouldn’t be selected by a nonaquatic character without extenuating circumstances). In most cases, the animal companion functions as a mount, sentry, scout, or hunting animal, rather than as a protector. This ability functions like the druid ability of the same name. A Scout may select from the alternative lists of animal companions just as a druid can. Like a druid, a Scout cannot select an alternative animal if the choice would reduce his effective druid level below 1st.

Enhanced Archery II: Beginning at level 5 the scout is treated as though he possessed the shot on the run feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites for this feat. This feature is only active so long as the scout is wearing light or no armor and is not encumbered.

Called Shot (ex):

Woodland Stride (ex): Starting at 7th levels, a Scout may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at his normal speed, and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. However, thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that are enchanted or magically manipulated to impede motion sill affect him.

Swift Tracker (ex): Beginning at 8th level, a Scout can move at his normal speed while following tracks without taking the normal –5 penalty. He takes only –10 penalty (instead of the normal –20) when moving at up to twice normal speed while tracking.

Evasion (ex): At 9th level, a Scout can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save (such as a red dragon’s fiery breath or a fireball), he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the ranger is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless Scout (such as one who is unconscious or paralyzed) does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Enhanced Archery III: Beginning at level ten the scout is treated as though he possessed the Improved Precise Shot feat even if he does not meet the prerequisites for this feat. This feature is only active so long as the scout is wearing light or no armor and is not encumbered.

Camouflage (ex): A Scout of 13th level or higher can use the Hide skill in any sort of natural terrain, even if the terrain doesn’t grant cover or concealment.

Enhanced Archery IV: Beginning at level thirteen the scout is treated as though he possessed the Improved Rapid Shot feat even if he does not possess the prerequisites for this feat. This feature is only active so long as the scout is wearing light or no armor and is not encumbered.

Hide in Plain Sight (ex): While in any sort of natural terrain, a Scout of 17th level or higher can use the Hide skill even while being observed.

Master Archer: At twentieth level the scout is a peerless archer. The scout is now treated as though he possesses the improved critical feat for any bow that he is proficient in the use of. Additionally, the scout adds his wisdom modifier to both his ranged attack rolls and his ranged damage rolls. This feature is only active so long as the scout is wearing light or no armor and is not encumbered.

Hide in Plain Sight: Same as the ranger feature of the same name.

Samfool

2011-01-24, 10:08 PM

Codemus

2011-01-24, 10:28 PM

Maybe make Called Shot and Improved Called Shot?
Called Shot could be basic spots:
Head, Chest, Arms, and Legs
Improved Called Shot could be more advanced spots:
Eye, Finger, Foot, Clothing (Pinning them to the wall or floor), Neck

Called Shot could have basic reactions (Head, Crtitical; Chest, Stunning; etc.)
Improved Called Shot could have more advanced reactions (Eye, Loose Eye; Foot, Half Speed; Neck, Advanced Critical (x2->x3;x3->x4; etc.)
That would make it a little more, idk, a little more

Thats not bad at all, actualy. I'm working on something else right now, but I'll impliment that.

EDIT: Well, here is the reworked ability.

Called Shot (ex): All Scouts gain some knowledge of basic anatomy, allowing them to place their ranged attacks with deadly and painful precision. The Scout may use a Standard Action to make a single ranged attack at the Scouts highest attack roll modifier, focusing specifically on a certain location on the enemy. The Scout suffers a penalty to the attack roll for small targets.

{table=head]Location|Attack Penalty
Head|-6
Torso|-2
Arms|-4
Legs|-4
[/table]

Taking damage at these locations can affect the enemy with debilitating effects, as shown below. Some effects can be resisted, and the DC for such would be 10 + 1/4th Scout level + 1/2 Damage caused to the location. Effects without a permanent duration last for 2 rounds.

{table=head]Location|Effect|Resist
Head|Confused|Yes (Will)
Torso|Stunned|Yes (Fort)
Arms|1 damage to Dex|Yes (Ref)
Legs|Half Speed|Yes (Ref)
[/table]

Improved Called Shot (ex): The Scout may use a Standard Action to make a single ranged attack at the Scouts highest attack roll modifier, focusing specifically on a certain location on the enemy. The Scout suffers a penalty to the attack roll for small targets.

{table=head]Location|Attack Penalty
Eye|-8
Foot|-4
Hand|-6
Neck|-8
[/table]

Taking damage at these locations can affect the enemy with debilitating effects, as shown below. Some effects can be resisted, and the DC for such would be 10 + 1/4th Scout level + 1/2 Damage caused to the location. Effects without a permanent duration last for 2 rounds.

{table=head]Location|Effect|Resist
Eye| Loses Eye |Yes (Fort)
Foot|Pinned|Yes (Ref)
Hand|Disarmed|Yes (Ref)
Neck|Critical|No
[/table]

Necro_EX

2011-01-25, 11:40 AM

I started working on the crusader and it sort of occurred to me...I'm second-guessing giving so many classes just straight-up casting based on schools. Yeah, that's how it worked in the games, but technically a fighter could just pay to learn every spell in those (not that he could cast any right away, but still). Perhaps we should start giving some of them spell lists and class features that replicate spells instead of giving so many (because most TES classes have some magic) 'casts spells from the ______ and _______ schools;' I was looking over the crusader on UESPwiki and they have destruction as a major, restoration as a minor (MW) and both in Oblivion, which works out well enough, but I don't know about them getting all those big nasty spells from higher levels...just seems unbalanced.

At roughly the same level the mage and the crusader would have access to the same 'destruction' spells and would have about the same power from that, but the crusader also has the fact that he's a lot more capable than the mage in a melee. With this in mind, I think for balance's sake we should probably take the skill lists from the ES games less objectively, and be a little more balance-conscious in our decisions in the future.

It also occurs to me that we're effectively combining arcane and divine casting together, which is fine because there isn't really a difference in TES.

Also, called shot is looking pretty good. I think with that the scout will be pretty well balanced against a vanilla ranger.

Samfool

2011-01-25, 11:56 AM

Harvest

2011-01-25, 12:01 PM

Hey, I can work on making the items. I can start with Armors.

Necro_EX

2011-01-25, 01:20 PM

We do not have to give these classes spellcasting, maybe just give them some spell-like abilities? That or go the warlock route and give them "Invocations" or "Battle Chants", stuff like that.

Yeah, that's along the lines of what I was thinking. Oviously some need to retain true spellcasting like battlemage, spellsword, healer, etc...

I'll have the crusader up later tonight, maybe a nightblade prc.

Harverst - Think you could write up special materials for them?

That way you'll be covering both armor and weapons.

Othniel Edden

2011-01-25, 01:24 PM

Doing a little research on the summon monster lists from Morrowind and Oblivion for the conjuration lists. Being pointed to three types of Summons; Daedra, Undead, and Animals. (Constructs are there too, but those are storyline finds, and should probably be related to some prestige class.)

Interestingly enough the Marrowind bestiary mentions the soultrap charge's held for each soul.I'll likely use these as broad CR. I figure I can use these to narrow which spell level they are...

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Summon
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Summon

Necro, there is an easy way to solve that. Tome of Battle gives us spell like effects in the forms of stances and maneuverers. Or we could handle that like core, probably restrict use of the full magic schools to the mage classes. Core would have us give the remainder partial spellcasting. Combat Classes would likely get up to level 4, while stealth classes would get up to level six.

Once we have a basis and a concept for all classes I think we can go back and balance them against one another. We can find the largest grouping of classes powerwise and revise the others to fit in this power range.

Samfool

2011-01-25, 01:30 PM

I have a question, should quadrupedal Khajiit races be playable?

Like the Alfiq, they are intelligent, but cannot talk. They are the size of house cats.

Necro_EX

2011-01-25, 02:30 PM

I'd say write them up as monsters, honestly.
They're hardly workable as PCs.

Alfiq are a maybe, but that's only because they're capable of spellcasting according to mixed unit tactics. Of course, it's not so hard to add levels to a monster, so I'd say that doing that would work well enough.

Othniel - It's largely just daedra and undead it seems. That could easily just be two variants on the summon monster spell, and we could work out some form of summon nature's ally, though druidic magic isn't really touched on in TES really.

I'll give ToB a look, but I think we might want to stick more with the core way of doing things.

I'm really liking how this is looking, so far. Looks like every class is going to have plenty of options, and it seems we'll have less balance issues between martial and magic classes, since most classes have some kind of magic and the magic classes all seem fairly restricted in choice.

EDIT: Also, the only constructs to be summoned were only summoned using the power of a god, so I don't think a prc would be necessary. An artifact exists related to that, of course.

EDITEDIT: Also, Samfool, you asked about half-races earlier, I believe. Those don't occur among the common races in TES. I forget the name of the book, but it's been mentioned that were any two of the common races to mate the child is born the same race as the mother. At least, I believe that's what it said, but there may have been like a small chance for it to be the father's race, but I don't recall exactly the contents of that book.

Samfool

2011-01-25, 02:39 PM

super dark33

2011-01-25, 02:50 PM

Imperials-

+2 Cha -2 Int
Medium: As Medium creatures, humans have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Imperial base land speed is 30 feet.
Voice of the Emperor- Make any non-hostile target with an intelligence of at least 3 one step closer to helpful. (DC= 10+Cha Mod)
Star of the West- Once per day, an Imperial can make another standard action. (Cannot be used after a full-round action)
Automatic Language: Common. Bonus Languages: Any
Favored Class:Paladin or bard

bolded the changes, imperials are too paladiny to give them a penelty to wis.

Im surprised noone made birthsigns so far.
heres what i got:
THE WARRIOR
+2 to str and con

The lady
+2 to wis and con

The shadaow (the shadow? the shadow!? THE SHADOW!)
can cast invisabilty once a day

the lover

can charm person once a day

Codemus

2011-01-25, 02:52 PM

I was talking just Khajiit for now.
But anyways, here is the base races!
Check um out, tell me what you think.

Base Races (http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/2548460/baseraces-pdf-january-25-2011-2-35-pm-108k?da=y)

Just hit the download button, it will send you to a screen with the PDF up.
I couldnt find a better way to upload it to you guys xP

Huh, it want's me to sign up to view it. I'm always kinda leery about stuff like that. It's why I do all my work in Microsoft Word.

EDIT: Yeah, there has been a few mentions of birthsigns, but nobody has commited yet. Mostly because we are focusing on classes, and birthsigns can go so many different ways. Personaly, I favor having the birthsigns as Bonus Feats that you get at first level, similar to the Dragonmark feats from ebberon.

Necro_EX

2011-01-25, 03:01 PM

Just signed up and it says you need to allow me (necroex) to view it? :/

EDIT: HP's pack had birthsigns, I'll dump his since he pretty much offered them up. Actually, I can't seem to copy it...guess I should get a working copy of word, sometime. :/

Keep at 'em looking good so far.
So far, the only real difference between what you've put down is that his leveld with the character (spell-likes would gain uses for so many HD) and he had a special section, that granted a little extra boost to a certain race for each, but I was unsure about that last bit...I think that orcs and nords synergized well enough with the warrior to not really need anything more from it. Of course, that's just me.

Harvest

2011-01-25, 03:23 PM

Iron [Medium and heavy armors]
Armor: -1 AC
Weapons: -1 damage
When an iron weapon is used in an attack, on a natural 1, an iron weapon loses hit points equal to the strength bonus of the wielder +1. Weapons which lose all their hit points break or bend.

Iron items have a hardness of 10 and 20 hp/inch

Can not damage spectral enemies

Steel [Medium and heavy armors]
Steel has no penelties, nor benefits
Steel items have a hardness of 10 and 30 hp/inch

can not damage spectral enemies

Silver [Heavy Armors]
Can damage spectral enemies
Hardness of 10 and 25 hp/inch

Mithril [Light armors]
Armor: +1 AC, Damage reduction 1 , weight reduced by 25%
Weapons: +1 Dam
Can damage spectral enemies

Hardness of 14 and 35hp/inch

Adamantium [Medium armors]
Armor: +2 AC, damage reduction 2, weight increased by 25%
Weapons: +2 Dam
Can damage spectral enemies

Hardness of 16 and 40 hp/inch

Ebony [Heavy armors]
Armor: +4 AC, Damage reduction 4
Weight increased by 50%
Weapons: +4 dam
Can damage spectral enemies

Hardness of 20 and 60 hp/inch

Daedric [heavy armors]
Armor: +6 AC, Damage reduction 6
Weight increase by 100%
Weapons:
+6 dam
Can damage spectral enemies
Hardness of 22 and 80hp/inch

The value for each material is up for debate, but here is the basic stuff for all the Metals and metal like materials. I'm working on all the non metal materials right now.

One last thing to note: I have no idea how your calculating item enchantment points, so I haven't done anything that yet.

Necro_EX

2011-01-25, 03:27 PM

I wouldn't necessarily separate them into weights, since so few feats or features would call on it. Rather, certain ones could likely only be used on certain armor types, I couldn't really imagine a daedric chain shirt, but a mithril suit of fullplate wouldn't be too far a stretch, y'know? Also iron and steel are used in the chain shirt, a light armor in 3.5.

Aside from that, looks good. :D

Harvest

2011-01-25, 03:29 PM

I figure I'd do the weight thing, since I remember always having to leave behind loot because of my REALLY heavy ebony armor.

Necro_EX

2011-01-25, 03:44 PM

Well, I mean keep the weight modifiers like you have on ebony and whatnot, I mean not to separate them like such in the title.

EDIT: Here's what I have for the crusader. It's somewhere between the standard and pathfinder paladins, with a couple of changes. I decided to make it so it could be either good or evil, to account for zealous evil folk.

Crusader

Warriors bound by the faith the crusader is a powerful symbol of their chosen path. They range from pious warriors, followers of the Nine Divine who seek to spread good throughout Tamriel, to fight back the forces of chaos and evil to the corrupt and grim worshippers of foul powers. They are fueled by their devotion and are the bane of their enemies.

Adventures: The crusader's life is one of adventure. It is their very nature to spread their faith and proliferate their beliefs. Because of this all crusaders are inherently adventurous, at least when they initially take this path.

Characteristics: The crusader is a capable melee fighter who wields the power of his alignment against those of opposing alignments. He is capable of holding his own against most other warriors in a melee, but truly exceeds when his opponent gives him a reason to fight, a reason to triumph.

Alignment: Crusaders are never neutral. They are passionate beings pulled toward an extreme in alignment by their faith.

Religion: -placeholder-

Background: -placeholder-

Races: -placeholder-

Other Classes: -placeholder-

Role: -placeholder-

Hit Die: d10

Class Skills
The Crusader’s class skills (and the key ability for each) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (Roayalty and Nobility) (Int), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Knowledge (The Planes), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis) Skill points at each level: 2+int modifier

Class Features
All the following are the class features of the Crusader.

{table=head]Level | BAB | F | R | W | Special
1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 2 | Aura of alignment, Smite opposite 1/day
2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 3 | Power of faith
3 | 3 | 1 | 1 | 3 | Aura of courage
4 | 4 | 1 | 1 | 4 | Channel energy
5 | 5 | 1 | 1 | 4 | Smite 2/day
6 | 6 | 2 | 2 | 5 | Detect alignment
7 | 7 | 2 | 2 | 5 |
8 | 8 | 2 | 2 | 6 | Aura of resolve
9 | 9 | 3 | 3 | 6 |
10 | 10 | 3 | 3 | 7 | Aura of justice, Smite 3/day
11 | 11 | 3 | 3 | 7 |
12 | 12 | 4 | 4 | 8 |
13 | 13 | 4 | 4 | 8 | Aura of faith
14 | 14 | 4 | 4 | 9 |
15 | 15 | 5 | 5 | 9 | Smite 4/day
16 | 16 | 5 | 5 | 10 |
17 | 17 | 5 | 5 | 10 | Aura of righteousness
18 | 18 | 6 | 6 | 11 |
19 | 19 | 6 | 6 | 11 |
20 | 20 | 6 | 6 | 12 | Zealous champion, Smite 5/day[/table]

Weapon and armor proficiencies: Crusaders are proficient in all forms of armor and shields (except tower shields) as well as all simple and martial weapons.

Aura of good: A crusader has a powerful aura of their alignment on the good-evil axis equal to their crusader level.

Detect alignment: Starting at sixth level a crusader may detect the alignment opposite theirs on the good-evil axis at will. For instance, a good crusader may detect evil at will.

Smite opposite: A crusader with a charisma score of 12 or more may smite the alignment opposite theirs on the good-evil axis. At first level he may do this once, and at every level divisible by five he gains another use of this ability (5, 10, 15, 20). He adds his charisma bonus to his attack roll and deals 1 extra point of damage per crusader level. For example a thirteenth level good crusader armed with a longsword would deal 1d8+13 points of damage, plus any additional bonuses that would normally apply such as high strength or weapon specialization. If the crusader accidentally smites a creature that is not of the opposite alignment, the smite has no effect, but the ability is still used up for the day.

Power of faith: Starting at second level a crusader gains a bonus to all saving throws equal to his charisma bonus.

Channel energy (Su): Regardless of alignment, any crusader may release a wave of energy by channeling the power of his faith through his holy (or unholy) symbol. This energy can be used to cause or heal damage, depending on the type of energy channeled and the creatures targeted.
A good crusader channels positive energy and can choose to deal damage to undead creatures or to heal living creatures. An evil crusader channels negative energy and can choose to deal damage to living creatures or to heal undead creatures.
Channeling energy causes a burst that affects all creatures of one type (either undead or living) in a 30-foot radius centered on the crusader. The amount of damage dealt or healed is equal to 1d6 points of damage plus 1d6 points of damage for every two crusader levels beyond first. Creatures that take damage from channeled energy receive a will save to halve the damage. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the crusader's level + the crusader's charisma modifier. Creatures healed by channeled energy cannot exceed their maximum hit point total-all excess healing is lost. A cleric may channel energy a number of times per day equal to 3 + her chaisma modifier. This is a standard action that does not procoke an attack of opportunity. A crusader may choose whether or not to include himself in this effect. A crusader must be able to present his holy (or unholy) symbol to use this ability.

Aura of courage: Beginning at third level, a crusader is immue to fear (magical or toherwise). Each ally within ten feet of her gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear effects. This ability only functions while the crusader is conscious, not if he is unconscious or dead.

Aura of resolve: Beginning at eighth level a crusader is immune to charm spells and spell-like abilities. Each ally within ten feet of him gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against charm effects. This ability functions only while the paladin is conscious, not if he is unconscious or dead.

Aura of justice: Beginning at eleventh level a crusader can expend two uses of his smite opposite ability to grant the ability to smite opposite to all allies within ten feet, using his bonuses. Allies must use this smite ability by the start of the crusader's next turn and the bonuses last for one minute. Using this ability is a free action. Allies with the opposite alignment of the crusader gain no benefit from this.

Aura of faith: Starting at fourteenth level, a crusader's weapons are treated as having his alignment on the good-evil axis for purposes of overcoming damage reduction. Any attack made against an enemy within ten feet of him is treated as this alignment for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction. This ability functions only while the crusader is conscious, not if he is unconscious or dead.

Aura of righteousness: Beginning at seventeenth level a crusader gains DR 5 overcome by the opposite of their alignment on the good-evil axis and immunity to compulsion spells and spell-like abilities. Each ally within ten feet of him gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against compulsion effects. This ability functions only while the crusader is conscious, not if he is unconscious or dead.

Zealous champion: Beginning at twentieth level a paladin becomes a conduit of his alignment. His DR increases to 10. Whenever he uses a smite and successfully strikes an outsider, the outsider is also subject to a banishment using his paladin level as the caster level (his weapon and holy symbol automatically count as objects that the subject hates). After the banishment effect and the damagge from the attack is resolved, the smite immediately ends. In addition, whenever he channels energy, he heals the maximum amount possible.

Spellcasting:
{table=head]Level | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4
1 | - | - | - | -
2 | - | - | - | -
3 | - | - | - | -
4 | 0 | - | - | -
5 | 0 | - | - | -
6 | 1 | - | - | -
7 | 1 | - | - | -
8 | 1 | 0 | - | -
9 | 1 | 0 | - | -
10 | 1 | 1 | - | -
11 | 1 | 1 | 0 | -
12 | 1 | 1 | 1 | -
13 | 1 | 1 | 1 | -
14 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0
15 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1
16 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 1
17 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1
18 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 1
19 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2
20 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 [/table]

Othniel Edden

2011-01-25, 04:52 PM

Othniel - It's largely just daedra and undead it seems. That could easily just be two variants on the summon monster spell, and we could work out some form of summon nature's ally, though druidic magic isn't really touched on in TES really. I know, but I'm writing up Witchhunter, and it feels wrong to have them use necromancy and trafficking deadra when then specifically hate those things. Summons isn't something I want them to give up though. They should be out numbered already if they are going after cults, so the ability to summon animals would be desirable.

EDIT: Also, the only constructs to be summoned were only summoned using the power of a god, so I don't think a prc would be necessary. An artifact exists related to that, of course.

Constructs either came from ancient Dwemer or Sol Sotha in Morrowind. I think the book you get "Secrets of Dwemer Animunculi" you more likely build the construct and then teleport (Which is what summoning is) it in to the battle. Personally I think it would be fun to have an Animu PrC that set the animunculi more up like an animal companion that could evolve as you crafted it.

Necro_EX

2011-01-25, 06:07 PM

Well, we could probably be arsed to write up some good outsiders...I don't think that'd be completely lore-unfriendly. I might be wrong about that, though. If not, then yeah having the witch hunter use something like summon nature's ally wouldn't be bad at all.

As for summoning constructs, I might be able to write up a class similar to Pathfinder's summoner for that. It'd really only be heavily compatible with pre-empire campaigns, though. I suppose it would be possible for a scholar or somesuch to figure out how to make some dwemer constructs, though.

I might just get around to that. :D

Samfool

2011-01-25, 06:21 PM

There are non-evil daedra you know,
Hell, daedra arent even "Demons" like everyone thinks
Trafficking good daedra would be perfectly in line for a witch hunter.

Milo v3

2011-01-25, 06:53 PM

Aren't good daedra called Aedra.

Necro_EX

2011-01-25, 07:05 PM

Aren't good daedra called Aedra.

It's more that Aedra are 'our ancestors' and Daedra are 'not our ancestors.'

Also, yeah Samfool is right. The difference between Aedra and Daedra are more on the law-chaos scale than the good-evil one.

Samfool

2011-01-25, 09:23 PM

No, no Aedra are different from Daedra.
Good Daedra are just Daedra that are.. wait for it.. good!
If you notice, Shiviring Ilses was a Daedric realm. None of those attacked you.

"Saint Veloth also taught the difference between the Good and Bad Daedra [2], and won the aid of the Good Daedra for his people while teaching how to carefully negotiate with the Bad Daedra."
Strait from the ElderScrolls Wiki (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Veloth).

Othniel Edden

2011-01-26, 01:07 AM

Thats related to the Tribunal Temple specifically, a view point not share by all organizations. Specfically I'm thinking of Trayvond the Redguard's (http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Trayvond_the_Redguard) POV when looking at this, "I'm Trayvond the Redguard, Mages Guild Evoker. Surprised? Yes, you don't see many Redguards in the Mages Guild. We don't much like spellcasters in Hammerfell. Wizards steal souls and tamper with minds. If you use magic, you're weak or wicked. My family didn't approve of my vocation, so I had to come to Cyrodiil for my education. I admit... I still have strong prejudices against necromancy, summoning, and illusion. Profaning the remains or souls of the dead is just wrong. And I'm uneasy about tampering with other's minds and trafficking with Daedra."

I'm under the impression that this isn't an uncommon viewpoint that daedra are too dangerous to summon. The imperial cult mostly sees the daedra as their enemies, and it seems quite clear to me that the witchhunter is against dangerous profane things. As the Marrowind class description says "Witchhunters are dedicated to rooting out and destroying the perverted practices of dark cults and profane sorcery. They train for martial, magical, and stealthy war against vampires, witches, warlocks, and necromancers." Dark cults seems to me to indicate daedra worshipers, and profane sorcery seems to deal with summoning daedra, and creating undead.

Even within religions that allow those things they have warnings in place for going too far. Even the dark elves seem weary of lesser daedra's missions.

Necro_EX

2011-01-26, 03:41 AM

The witch hunter could always be going at that with a 'fight fire with fire' mentality, though. After all, a summoned daedra is bound to its summoner, so I suppose that would give them reason enough to go that way.

Harvest

2011-01-26, 07:53 AM

Aedra, otherwise known as the Nine Devines, are worshiped by the Imperial Cult, and most other mortals on Tamriel.

Othniel Edden

2011-01-26, 10:34 AM

Witchhunter, complete first draft, except for the saves, which I'll edit in later.

Still figuring out what I want in full here. Full BAB? maybe some bonus feats? Maybe add in combat styles with more variety? more paladin features? turn undead even?

Witchhunter
Alignment Any non-evil
Hit Die: d8.

Class Skills
The ranger’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Use Rope (Dex).

Skill Points at 1st Level
(4 + Int modifier) ×4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level
4 + Int modifier.

The Witchhunter
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Track, Detect Evil at will, Smite (Evil) 1/day|2|-

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|Armored Mage (Light), Turn Undead|2|1|-

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+3|Endurance, Urban Tracking|2|2|-|-

4th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|Summon Familiar|3|2|1|-|-

5th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|Smite (Evil) 2/day|3|2|2|-|-|-

6th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+5|Trackless Step|3|3|2|1|-|-|-

7th|
+5|
+2|
+2|
+5||3|3|2|2|-|-|-|-

8th|
+6/+1|
+2|
+2|
+6|Swift Tracker|4|3|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|-

9th|
+6/+1|
+3|
+3|
+6|Evasion|4|4|3|2|2|-|-|-|-|-

10th|
+7/+2|
+3|
+3|
+7|Smite (Evil) 3/day|4|4|3|3|2|1|-|-|-|-

11th|
+8/+3|
+3|
+3|
+7||4|4|4|3|2|2|-|-|-|-

12th|
+9/+4|
+4|
+4|
+8||4|4|4|3|3|2|-|-|-|-

13th|
+9/+4|
+4|
+4|
+8|Camouflage(any terrain)|5|4|4|4|3|3|-|-|-|-

14th|
+10/+5|
+4|
+4|
+9||5|4|4|4|3|3|-|-|-|-

15th|
+11/+6/+1|
+5|
+5|
+9|Smite (Evil) 4/day|5|5|4|4|4|3|-|-|-|-

16th|
+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+10||5|5|5|4|4|3|-|-|-|-

17th|
+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+10|Hide in Plain Sight (any terrain)|5|5|5|4|4|4|-|-|-|-

18th|
+13/+8/+3|
+6|
+6|
+11||5|5|5|4|4|4|-|-|-|-

19th|
+14/+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+11||5|5|5|4|4|4|-|-|-|-

20th|
+15/+10/+5|
+6|
+6|
+12|Smite (Evil) 5/day|5|5|5|4|4|4|-|-|-|-[/table]

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the witchhunter.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
A witchhunter is proficient with all simple and ranged martial weapons, and with light armor and shields (except tower shields).

Spells
A witchhunter casts arcane spells which are drawn primarily from the conjuration, mysticism and destruction spell lists. A witchhunter must choose and prepare his spells in advance (see below).
To prepare or cast a spell, a witchhunter must have a Inteligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a ranger’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the ranger’s Inteligence modifier.
Like other spellcasters, a ranger can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Witchhunter. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Intelligence score.

Spontaneous Casting
A witchhunter can channel stored spell energy into summoning spells that he hasn’t prepared ahead of time. He can "lose" a prepared spell in order to cast any summoning spell of the same level or lower. At 1st level the witchhunter chooses whether this summoning spell will be summon natures ally, summon daedra, summon monster, or summon undead.

Track
A Witchhunter gains Track as a bonus feat.

Detect Evil
At will, a witchhunter can use detect evil, as the spell.

Smite Evil
Once per day, a witchhunter may attempt to smite evil with one normal melee attack. She adds her Charisma bonus (if any) to her attack roll and deals 1 extra point of damage per paladin level. If the witchhunter accidentally smites a creature that is not evil, the smite has no effect, but the ability is still used up for that day.
At 5th level, and at every five levels thereafter, the witchhunter may smite evil one additional time per day, as indicated on Table: The Witchhunter, to a maximum of five times per day at 20th level.

Armored Mage (light)
Normally, armor of any type interferes with an arcane spellcaster’s gestures. However, Witchhunters of 2nd level or higher have specialized training, allowing them to ignore the hindrance of wearing light armor and light shields(excluding tower shields).

Turn Undead
At 2nd level, a Witchhunter can turn or destroy undead creatures.

Endurance
A Witchhunter gains Endurance as a bonus feat at 3rd level.
Urban Tracking
A Witchhunter gains Urban Tracking as a bonus feat, which allows him to use Gather Information to track down a missing person, suspect, or other individual within a community.

Familiar
At 4th level, a Witchhunter can obtain a familiar. Doing so takes 24 hours and uses up magical materials that cost 100 gp. A familiar is a magical beast that resembles a small animal and is unusually tough and intelligent. The creature serves as a companion and servant.
The witchhunter chooses the kind of familiar he gets. As the sorcerer advances in level, his familiar also increases in power.
If the familiar dies or is dismissed by the sorcerer, the witchhunter must attempt a DC 15 Fortitude saving throw. Failure means he loses 200 experience points per sorcerer level; success reduces the loss to one-half that amount. However, a witchhunter’s experience point total can never go below 0 as the result of a familiar’s demise or dismissal. A slain or dismissed familiar cannot be replaced for a year and day. A slain familiar can be raised from the dead just as a character can be, and it does not lose a level or a Constitution point when this happy event occurs.
A character with more than one class that grants a familiar may have only one familiar at a time.

Trackless Step
Starting at 6th level, a witchhunter leaves no trail and cannot be tracked. He may choose to leave a trail if so desired.
Swift Tracker
Beginning at 8th level, a witchhunter can move at his normal speed while following tracks without taking the normal -5 penalty. He takes only a -10 penalty (instead of the normal -20) when moving at up to twice normal speed while tracking.

Evasion
At 9th level, a witchhunter can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the witchhunter is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless witchhunter does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Camouflage
A witchhunter of 13th level or higher can use the Hide skill in any sort of natural terrain, even if the terrain doesn’t grant cover or concealment.

Hide in Plain Sight
While in any sort of terrain, a witchhunter of 17th level or higher can use the Hide skill even while being observed.

Urban Tracking [General]
You can track down the location of missing persons or wanted individuals within communities.
Benefit

To find the trail of an individual or to follow it for 1 hour requires a Gather Information check. You must make another Gather Information check every hour of the search, as well as each time the trail becomes difficult to follow, such as when it moves to a different area of town.

The DC of the check, and the number of checks required to track down your quarry, depends on the community size and the conditions:

If you fail a Gather Information check, you can retry after 1 hour of questioning. The game master should roll the number of checks required secretly, so that the player doesn't know exactly how long the task will require.
Normal

A character without this feat can use Gather Information to find out information about a particular individual, but each check takes 1d4+1 hours and doesn't allow effective trailing.

Special

A character with 5 ranks in Knowledge (local) gains a +2 bonus on the Gather Information check to use this feat.

You can cut the time between Gather Information checks in half (to 30 minutes per check rather than 1 hour), but you take a -5 penalty on the check.

EDIT: Base Saves imputed
EDIT 2: Skill Points decreased, turn undead added.

Necro_EX

2011-01-26, 12:06 PM

Lookin' good. Maybe a little more skill heavy than I had expected, but it looks pretty decent.

Samfool

2011-01-26, 12:10 PM

Luvlein

2011-01-26, 12:39 PM

I agree with Othniel on the Daedra.

"Good" Daedra are just Daedra who are allied with the group of mortals who label them so.

Of the three "good" Daedra Princes of the Velothi faith (later adopted as allies by the Tribunal Temple), Mephala and Boethia are considered evil by most other people. Azura is considered "good" by many, but even so she is an alien and dangerous being whose motives remain mysterious.

Malacath is considered "good" by Orcs and "evil" by the Dunmer and everyone else.

Never trust any Daedroth, I say.

Necro_EX

2011-01-26, 12:42 PM

The problem is, though I'm sure they're mentioned in a book or two, the games never present you with a good lesser daedra. Creeper is a potential exception, but he's likely neutral at best.

Othniel Edden

2011-01-26, 12:55 PM

Turn undead would be good.
I think that there are a couple kinds of witch hunters. just like there are different kinds of wizards. Hell, even clerics can be good and evil. Why not have some witchhunters want to hunt evil with evil? The others do it with good? No neutralness though,

I'm going to just agree with the books that say you can waive the alignment restrictions if thats what you think when your dming.

Going to add turn undead and trim the Skill points to 4 per level.

Samfool

2011-01-26, 12:55 PM

@ Luvlien- The plural for Daedra is Daedra, not daedroth.

@ Necro- Creeper is considered to be Clavicus Vile's Dog.

Daedra have played mainly an evil role, since many are very evil. Good daedra could be an option Bethesda has not explored yet. That or the Witchunters could simply worship a daedra like azura and summon winged twilights

Luvlein

2011-01-26, 01:01 PM

@ Luvlien- The plural for Daedra is Daedra, not daedroth.

It's the other way around, Samfool.
Daedroth is singular, Daedra is plural for Daedroth.

"The proper singular form is "Daedroth", but that has come to refer to a specific species of Daedra"
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Daedra
So "Daedroth" is both the singular form for Daedra and the name fore one specific race of Daedra

Samfool

2011-01-26, 01:02 PM

It's the other way around, Samfool.
Daedroth is singular, Daedra is plural for Daedroth.

"The proper singular form is "Daedroth", but that has come to refer to a specific species of Daedra"
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Daedra
So "Daedroth" is both the singular form for Daedra and the name fore one specific race of Daedra

I have been corrected. =]

Necro_EX

2011-01-26, 01:10 PM

Ah, didn't know he was with Clavicus. Suddenly selling him all those powerful goods seems like a much less...good idea.

Samfool

2011-01-26, 01:16 PM

Ahahah, well its all speculation really. In Oblivion the dog tells you "For a while I was a scamp doing deals with orcs."

Luvlein

2011-01-26, 01:18 PM

Well if he were an ordinary Scamp, he'd be a servant of Mehrunes Dagon. You'd be okay with that? :)

Samfool

2011-01-26, 01:19 PM

Well if he were an ordinary Scamp, he'd be a servant of Mehrunes Dagon. You'd be okay with that? :)

Dude, you know your stuff!
Kudos

Othniel Edden

2011-01-26, 01:21 PM

Daedra have played mainly an evil role, since many are very evil. Good daedra could be an option Bethesda has not explored yet. That or the Witchunters could simply worship a daedra like azura and summon winged twilights

Daedric Princes are fickle beings, and sometimes they send you on quests that show you they care about their followers, or their stuff, other times they show you that they are evil. One that I could see wholly being embraced by Witchhunters is Meridia, who hates undead. Peryite has some tendencies that make him attractive to a lawful Neutral theology, and so could attract a few. I'm all for summoning lists that would give these "sometimes not evil 'Deities'" the flavoring needed for a witchhunter following them. They probably squabble with their daedric brethen as much as the next. Sanguine and Molag Bal are still threats to them, and their plans on the moral plane.

But this is a generic class, and I can't say I have the skill to customize it to that degree. Heck the best I can offer is that we allow clerics in this setting, and come up with Deities and Demigods supplement post...

Samfool

2011-01-26, 01:34 PM

All this talk about good and bad Daedra, and the Dunmer of Morrowind are worshiping false gods who say the Daedra are evil, and the great god Akatosh is taking sides with the Imperials, leaving the other races to fend for themselves.
Morality is a fickle thing, not just the Daedra

Necro_EX

2011-01-26, 01:41 PM

Well if he were an ordinary Scamp, he'd be a servant of Mehrunes Dagon. You'd be okay with that? :)

Well, I figured he was either independent or a bound servant to the orcs.

Luvlein

2011-01-26, 01:49 PM

Well, I figured he was either independent or a bound servant to the orcs.

So did I.
It is easy to be deluded when there is profit in it.

Necro_EX

2011-01-26, 01:52 PM

So did I.
It is easy to be deluded when there is profit in it.

Great, now I'm questioning whether or not to trust the mud crab.

Hmmm...what to work on tonight?
Looks like we've got some people churning out base classes...think I'll do faction tables and maybe some prcs? I'm thinking the dunmeri great houses, tonight.

Oh wait...I've got Pokemon Tabletop Adventures, tonight...
Well, tomorrow night, then.

Othniel Edden

2011-01-26, 02:57 PM

Great, now I'm questioning whether or not to trust the mud crab.

Hmmm...what to work on tonight?
Looks like we've got some people churning out base classes...think I'll do faction tables and maybe some prcs? I'm thinking the dunmeri great houses, tonight.

Oh wait...I've got Pokemon Tabletop Adventures, tonight...
Well, tomorrow night, then.
the mud crab is clearly supplying argonian slaves in hope of fueling the rebellion.

I'm looking forward to your write ups on the lesser shown Great houses.

Codemus

2011-01-26, 03:13 PM

the mud crab is clearly supplying argonian slaves in hope of fueling the rebellion.

I'm looking forward to your write ups on the lesser shown Great houses.

I believe that the mudcrabs are their own form of Daedra, from a unique realm of oblivion where it's mud and water as far as the eye can see.

Weren't there only three great houses? Halalu, redorin, and whatsits? My spelling may be off a tad. :smalltongue:

Othniel Edden

2011-01-26, 03:22 PM

I believe that the mudcrabs are their own form of Daedra, from a unique realm of oblivion where it's mud and water as far as the eye can see.

Weren't there only three great houses? Halalu, redorin, and whatsits? My spelling may be off a tad. :smalltongue:

5. Only three joinable.

House Hlaalu, House Redoran, House Telvanni, House Indoril, and House Dres.

Codemus

2011-01-26, 03:26 PM

5. Only three joinable.

House Hlaalu, House Redoran, House Telvanni, House Indoril, and House Dres.

Ah, I remember now. Indoril were a bunch of jerks flaunting their awesome armor.

Necro_EX

2011-01-26, 03:47 PM

Not to mention the sixth house. :D

Of course, they're far from relevant at this point. :/

Might still do it for some pre-Morrowind gaming. :D

Turns out PTA might not happen tonight, so I might get to work on Telvanni tonight.

I'm looking forward to working on Dres, lots of research to do there.

Samfool

2011-01-26, 05:26 PM

Dres are basically slavers and other money-making things like that.

Codemus

2011-01-26, 05:28 PM

Dres are basically slavers and other money-making things like that.

Were they the ones enslaving all the argonians and khajit?

Samfool

2011-01-26, 05:41 PM

Hells yeah,
they hate any best-race that is free.

Othniel Edden

2011-01-26, 05:52 PM

Not to mention the sixth house. :D

Of course, they're far from relevant at this point. :/

Might still do it for some pre-Morrowind gaming. :D Only good if you want to run the war between the Chimeri and the Dwemer...which could be fun...

Turns out PTA might not happen tonight, so I might get to work on Telvanni tonight.

I'm looking forward to working on Dres, lots of research to do there.

Hopefully we can get a few Telvanni based prestige classes. I love them and their shiny squid heads.

Othniel Edden

2011-01-27, 02:21 AM

hmm, I think I need a ES level to challenge rating conversion system...

Necro_EX

2011-01-27, 07:46 AM

Well, for the like...two monsters I had written up, I took what they were closest to in the MM, then starting applying the changes to them and found an appropriate CR based on that.

Hunger
Hunger
This lithe and unnaturally gaunt creature has a pallid complexion and a look of pure rage in its eyes. All its features are elongated and stretched and it has several spines protruding through its flesh.

The hunger is a powerful and violent lesser Daedra associated with Boethiah, Father of Plots -- a sinuous, long-limbed, long-tailed creature with a beast-skulled head, noted for its paralyzing touch and its ability to disintegrate weapons and armor.

Hunger
Medium Outsider (Daedra) (Boethiah)
HD: 8d8+32 (68hp)
Initiative: +10
Speed: 30 ft.
Armor Class: 24 (+6 Dex, +8 natural), Touch 16, Flat-footed 18
Base Attack/Grapple: +8/+13
Attack: Bite +13 melee (1d8+5)
Full Attack: Bite +13 melee (1d8+5), and 2 claws +8/+3 melee (1d6+5)
Space/Reach: 5ft/5ft
Special Attacks: Hunger’s vomit
Special Qualities: DR 20/+1, immune to fire, cold, and electric
Saves: Fort: + Ref: + Will: +
Abilities: Str: 20 Dex: 22 Con: 16
Int: 2 Wis: 8 Cha: 4
Skills: Climb + 16, Listen +8, Spot +10
Feats: Improved Initiative, ImprovedToughness
Environment: Oblivion (Boethiah)
Organization: Solitary, pair
Challenge Rating: 8
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Always Chaotic Evil
Advancement: Advancement 9-11 HD (Medium), 12+HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: --

Special attacks:

Hunger’s Vomit(EX): A Hunger can spray acid in a 30-foot line, dealing 6d8 points of damage to everything within the area. Once a hunger uses this ability it can’t use it again until 1d4 rounds later. This acid spray also deals damage to all equipment hit. A DC 18 Reflex save halves the damage and negates any damage to equipment. Weapons damaged this way crumble apart and become useless immediately, and armor effected this way is initially damaged and loses 2 from its armor bonus and a second hit will disintegrate the armor entirely.

Don't quite remember where I started with this one...

Winged Twilight

Winged Twilight
Before you stands the image of a beautiful Dunmer woman with crimson hair and great leathery wings. Her features are ravishing and her claws appear deadly and coated with blood.

The winged twilight is a messenger of Azura, Goddess of Dusk and Dawn. Winged twilights resemble the feral harpies of the West, though the feminine aspects of the winged twilights are more ravishing, and their long, sharp, hooked tails are immeasurably more deadly.

Winged Twilight
Medium Outsider (Daedra) (Azura)
HD: 9d8+37 (74 hp)
Initiative: +5
Speed: 30 ft. , fly 60 ft. (Good)
Armor Class: 24 (+5 Dex, +9 natural) Touch 15, Flat-footed 19
Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+13
Attack: Claw +13 melee (1d6+4)
Full Attack: 2 claws +13/+8 melee (1d6+4)
Space/Reach: 5ft/5ft
Special Attacks: --
Special Qualities: DR 5/Good, Resist shock, fire, and cold 15, resist poison 75%, Spell reflection 20
Saves: Fort: +10 Ref: +12 Will: +10
Abilities: Str: 18 Dex: 20 Con: 18
Int: 14 Wis: 18 Cha: 22
Skills: Hide +18, Listen +16, Move Silently +18, Search +16, Sense Motive +18, Knowledge (Religion) + 20, Knowledge (Arcana) +12
Feats: Flyby attack, Dodge, Combat Reflexes
Environment: Oblivion (Azura)
Organization: Solitary, pair, flight (6-12) (Oblivion)
Challenge Rating: 7
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Always Lawful Evil
Advancement: Advancement (By class)
Level Adjustment: +6

Started with the standard harpy, I think this is a CR or two higher.

---

Telvanni's my favorite, so definitely expect some thick content, there. :D
I figured I would do them first, then use what I did there as a basis for all the other factions, so that way they're all just as fleshed out as the rest.

I didn't have much time to do it last night because a friend came over, but after I go job hunting today I'm probably just going to sit here and work on it. :D

EDIT:

And here's Great House Telvanni's information:

Great House Telvanni
"Traditionally isolationist, most House Telvanni of Morrowind wizard-lords pursue wisdom and mastery in solitude. But certain ambitious wizard-lords, their retainers, and clients have entered whole-heartedly into the competition to control and exploit Vvardenfell's land and resources, building towers and bases all along the eastern coast. The Telvanni think that wisdom confers power, and power confers right." — Great Houses of Morrowind

One of Morrowind's Great Houses, House Telvanni is a collection of powerful wizard-lords and their retainers. This Great House seeks power through wisdom and believes that knowledge is power, and might makes right in the eyes of the Telvanni.

Joining House Telvanni
Any and all are welcome to join Great House Telvanni, all one needs to do is seek audience with the mouths in the council hall in Sadrith Mora. Not all members of House Telvanni are wizards, the house makes use of many hired footmen who act as lawmen and enforcers in the Telvanni lands.
House Telvanni is the only Dunmeri Great House to tolerate vampires and openly accepts them into their ranks just as readily as the still-living.

Entry Requirements: Knowledge (Arcana) 3 ranks.
House Telvanni is a house of great and powerful wizards and sorcerers, and its highest ranking members tend to be very islationist, preferring to keep to themselves buried in their studies. For this reason, House Telvanni is open to any who wish to join as a hireling, and Houe Telvanni believes that wisdom and power are to be acknowledged with respect. Though the house is a staunch supporter of slavery, believing it to be an ancient Dunmeri right, many Khajiit and Argonians are in the ranks of House Telvanni.
Magic users will find it easiest to climb the ranks of House Telvanni and are the only ones capable of reaching ranks above lawman; mages are the bulk of House Telvanni's high-ranking members.
Rarely is a mage invited into the ranks of House Telvanni; joining the house is a decision that is usually made entirely on the part of the mage himself. Warriors, scouts, and others, however, are often brought into the house as the retainers and hirelings of a higher ranking member; the highest ranking members of House Telvanni employ many hirelings and slaves.

Great House Telvanni Benefits
Mages of House Telvanni have access to a broad range of resources including the house's many lawmen and enforcers, the slave markets, and the other mages themselves. The house has deep pockets, almost holding a monopoly on the slave trade in Vvardenfell and half the market on arcane power; if House Telvanni had its way the imperial mage's guild would have no place in Morrowind if at all possible. Members of the house have access to one very important thing: the collective knowledge of House Telvanni's great wizard-lords. Knowledge is power, and House Telvanni has a surplus on knowledge.

Economics: House Telvanni holds a strong grip on the slave market in Vvardenfell and has a great number of apothecaries, alchemists, and enchanters in their numbers. Typically, each house mage provides for himself and is usually an accomplished mage by the time he reaches the rank of wizard, often with his own stronghold. Some of the less ambitious mages may find themselves in the direct employ of a higher ranking member, however.
As a member of House Telvanni, a character can purchase magic weapons, armor, rings, rods, and wondrous items for 80% of their listed market price. Doing so is time-consuming, however, and even not every item may be available. If a PC is interested in obtaining a specific magic item, he must wait two weeks while his request is handled and considered by the council. The item might be available (30%chance) with a further 30% chance that a similar item is available.
Taken collectively, House Telvanni has a gold piece limit of 100,000 (as though it were a community wealthy as a metropolis; see page 137 of the DMG).

Gear: Typically, members of House Telvanni are expected to be self-sufficient, especially the mages. The house does not equip its members, but its members are usually willing to part with bits of their personal collections in return for services rendered by lower-ranking members and a wise mage will equip his own personal hirelings and retainers. On particularly large or unusual expeditions, the sharing of such wealth might be expected to be more lenient.

Services: House Telvanni is usually unconcerned with offering services, but keeps open slave markets and many shops selling magical goods open to provide for itself. Typically these services are privately owned as the house believes in the rights of the individual.
Information: House Telvanni has a vast library of arcane knowledge as one might expect of a group of powerful wizard-lords. Due to the structure of the house this information is not centralized, though. A PC wishing to learn a particular spell or other piece of information will likely have to ask individual members of the order, and the most knowledgeable would be the masters and magisters themselves. A PC might head to the council hall and request information from the mouths, who may or may not be helpful in pointing them in the right direction for such a thing, and it is likely that monetary payment or a 'favor in return' might be necessary to gather information from another member, after all information isn't cheap and you should have done the research yourself.

Access: House Telvanni has few public facilities, but members of the house are likely to treat other members with a certain degree of respect, especially their superiors. This respect might come in the form of information or discounts on goods. Slaves and lesser retainers may also be used as bartering chips between members of the house.

Playing a member of House Telvanni
Most who seek membership of House Telvanni are magi with a strong thirst for knowledge, wisdom, and power. The house believes in the rights of the individual and is conservative on the matters of slavery and property and generally wishes to see less imperial influence in Morrowind. Because of the ambitious nature of House Telvanni's members, it is not at all uncommon to climb the ladder by way of treachery and deceit, things Telvanni mages tend to hold as virtues. Might makes right in House Telvanni, and they believe that if you are in an argument with another member and slay him outright then clearly your position holds more merit.
Other members of the order are enforcers of Telvanni law, typically and police Telvanni towns and protect their mage-lords.

Combat: In modern Morrowind the Great Houses do not openly engage in warfare, but rather employ the honorable assassins of the Morag Tong to wage war upon eachother. This method of conflict is in line with the methods of the typical member of House Telvanni; it's secretive, it's underhanded, and it's a smart tactic.
In the case of outright combat, the mages of Telvanni will often fight tactfully, selfishly, and 'dirty.' Using every bit of arcane knowledge and power at their disposal the survivalist mages of House Telvanni are not to be trifled with.

Advancement: Mages of House Telvanni may initially raise in the ranks of the house by performing tasks for elder members. Collecting alchemical supplies, locating lost items, 'procuring' certain goods, 'dealing' with abolitionists, research, and many other things might be done to raise into the ranks. However, the highest ranks are often achieved through deceit and treachery. It is not uncommon for a member of House Telvanni to slay an elder member to rise in the ranks, often acquiring some of that member's holdings.
Other members are raised as high in the ranks as 'lawman' by their superiors and are rewarded for loyalty and performance. Typically these members are the retainers or hirelings of house magi and never rise above 'lawman' status.

Missions: Because of the structure of the house, it is not common for the council to collectively send members on expeditions. Rather individual members will send lesser members to do the menial tasks of exploration and expedition to increase that member's position in the house. These missions range from the simple task of locating and retrieving alchemical ingredients to the more complicated such as removing a troublesome abolitionist from the public eye or heading out on a slave-taking expedition, or possibly finding rare spell components or recovering powerful artifacts.
Responsibilities: Members of House Telvanni are not expected to do anything less than being self-sufficient. Because the house does not have public facilities or common coffers its members have few responsibilities. Hirelings, of course, are the exception and are expected to serve their masters accordingly.

House Telvanni in the world
"House Telvanni matches the disposition of my brother Sotha Sil -- iconoclastic, profane, unconventional." – Vivec

House Telvanni does little to support episodic D&D play, but lends itself well to a continuity-based campaign in which the players wish to experience the political intrigue present in Morrowind's Great Houses.

Structure: House Telvanni has a strict hierarchy with the most powerful wizards at the top as the house's masters and magisters, and the lowest ranks filled with warrior hirelings and lawmen. Because of the individualistic nature of House Telvanni the house has very little in the way of public facilities, but new members can expect constant work as their superiors would rather spend their time researching and developing new magics than gathering materials or items. Hirelings and lawmen will always have constant, if a bit tedious, work policing the streets of Telvanni controlled towns and maintaining their wizard-lords towers.
Initially PCs who join House Telvanni might be working directly under a particular NPC doing things such as collecting materials and dealing with that NPCs enemies. As the PCs climb the ranks of House Telvanni they might be the ones organizing such expeditions to fuel their personal magical studies.

NPC Reactions

NPC reactions to members of House Telvanni are varied, but typically negative. Few outside the house trust its members who are seen as iconoclastic, perverse, and deceitful. Imperials dislike House Telvanni because of its firm and conservative stance on many issues, members of the imperial mage's guild are often at ends with House Telvanni, the other houses hate House Telvanni (Not that they don't all hate eachother), common folk fear them, and the list goes on. Telvanni has many enemies, and they can hardly consider themselves allies. The only ones who don't tend to have negative reactions to finding out someone is a member of House Telvanni are the slave traders they deal with and people in the Telvanni towns.

Great House Telvanni Lore

Characters with ranks in Knowledge (History) can research Great House Telvanni to learn more about the organization.

DC10: Great House Telvanni consists largely of mages and has many holdings in Vvardenfell as well as mainland Morrowind.
DC15: Great House Telvanni is known for being a staunch supporter of slavery and other 'ancient Dunmeri rights.' The higher ranking members of Great House Telvanni often resort to underhanded methods, and they hold a 'might makes right' mentality.
DC20: Some say Great House Telvanni has vampires and other undead among their ranks. Also, some believe the dunmer house has made covert attacks on imperials in the area.

Affiliation Specifics

The following criteria apply to members of Great House Telvanni

{table=head]Criterion | Affiliation score modifier
One-Time |
Character level | 1/2 levels
Knowledge (History) 5 ranks | +1
Knowledge (Arcana) 5 ranks | +2
Knowledge (The planes) 5 ranks | +1
Has at least one level in mage, sorcerer, or battlemage | +2
Descendant of a house noble | +2
Is a native-born Morrowind Dunmer | +3
Has actively battled one of Morrowind's other great houses | +2
Has performed well for an elder member | +2
Multiple Use |
Completes a task for one of the masters or magisters | +4
Eliminates a rival house member | +6
Successful slave taking | +2
Allies with imperial mage's guild | -4
Fails a task from an elder member | -2
[/table]

Affiliation
{table=head]Rank | Score | Titles: Benefits and Duties
0 | 5 or lower | None, hireling
1 | 6-10 | Lawman, access to discounted goods from house-sanctioned apothecaries and alchemists
2 | 11-20 | Wizard, Greater privileges, stronghold
3 | 21-29 | Master, May request aid of lesser members, member of the council
4 | 30+ | Magister, may become head of House Telvanni as archmagister
[/table]

Othniel Edden

2011-01-27, 04:45 PM

Started work on healer but the idea is pretty radical so I thought I'd show you guys before I worked further;

So basic idea is a monk cleric hybrid. Biggest changes are a dump in the monks damage output by lowering the unarmed damage and removing furry of blows, the idea being that the healer know martial arts to defend her or himself, not to deal with things offensively, unless in dire circumstances. The Bonus feats are now a choice between the monk's bonus feats and the wizard's bonus feats, and no domain spells or turn undead abilities. Outside of the monk's AC Bonus the healer keeps their body and evasion chains.

They will be able to cast restoration spontaneously and all other spells will be cast prepared, as a cleric can do with healing spells. The other schools it can cast from are Alteration, and Illusion. (Still debating on Mysticism or Destruction, though neither of those seem completely necessary)
The Healer
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Unarmed Damage|AC Bonus|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

1st|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+2|Bonus Feat, Healing Light, Unarmed Strike|1d4|+0|3|1|

2nd|
+x|
+3|
+0|
+3|Evasion|1d4|+0|4|2|-

3rd|
+x|
+3|
+1|
+3|-|1d4|+0|4|2|1|-

4th|
+x|
+4|
+1|
+4|-|1d6|+0|5|3|2|-|-

5th|
+x|
+4|
+1|
+4|Purity of Body, Bonus Feat|1d6|+1|5|3|2|1|-|-[/table]

Healing Light
Restoration spells that normally have a range of ‘Touch’ instead have a range of ‘Close-range’. Activated as a Free Action. Usable (Healer level) rounds per day.

Necro_EX

2011-01-27, 05:06 PM

Mmm...I'm not so sure about all that.

How about something similar to Pathfinder's priest class, throw in some of the monk's passive things like purity of body like you did, and maybe PF's paladin's mercies or something similar to the justicar prc's subdual things?

I say this partly because they complete forgo any combat oriented abilities in Oblivion and unarmed was mostly for subdual in MW.

I could definitely see them getting the AC bonuses, they did have unarmored in MW, afterall.

I dig healing light, though. That seems pretty nifty. :D

Othniel Edden

2011-01-27, 05:15 PM

In Oblivion they give up the H2H for the destruction offensive capabilities. In Morrowind their weapon proficiencies are much more like the monk. So to me it comes down to a choice between the two. Do we want "Fighters of poison and illness. The ancient art of restoration is their ally, and the deadly art of destruction is their weapon," or do we want "Healers are spellcasters who swear solemn oaths to heal the afflicted and cure the diseased. When threatened, they defend themselves with reason and disabling attacks and magic, relying on deadly force only in extremity?"

Cause disabling attacks sounds like a monk keyed toward grappling or tripping, aided by things like paralyzing spells. Though the idea of being able to replace ki strike with a version that debuffs the enemy could be appealing.... hmmm..

Necro_EX

2011-01-27, 05:34 PM

Yeah, some sort of new form of ki strike wouldn't be bad...I recall CW having some feats related to it.

I suppose if they're geared toward submission it would work out better, can't have healers throwing too many fireballs. :/

Definitely needs to be discernible from the monk, though.

Samfool

2011-01-27, 05:40 PM

Make a special spell list for healers, use the idea of a Cancer Mage from book of vile darkness's idea for the "destruction" spells, but the healing spells should be based off the cleric.

Othniel Edden

2011-01-27, 07:03 PM

I'll probably have it done by tonight or tomorrow depending on what I do with it. Mostly looking at stuff like stunning fist, improved grapple, dodge, and combat expertise for this non-lethal style, further I'll be decreasing the damage dice if I do keep the monk styling.

EDIT;
Found this as a variant in the SRD that could be used over weapon proficiencies and could make the game function closer to Morrowind.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/weaponGroupFeats.htm#usingWeaponGroupsInPlaceOfCla ssWeaponProficiencies

Necro_EX

2011-01-27, 08:15 PM

I'd see nothing wrong with using that.

Orbin Dules

2011-01-27, 09:26 PM

Would anyone be opposed to me reclassified all the spells in the SRD to the Elder Scrolls school of spells? IE, Alteration, illusion, destruction, mysticism, conjuration, Restoration? I would assume that the Alchemy skill melds with craft(alchemy). Should we also do away with the enchant skill from Morrowwind, or would it be replaced by feats?

Necro_EX

2011-01-27, 09:39 PM

We've already discussed reclassing all the spells, seems like we're running with it. So, if you would like to get started on that, that'd be real swell. :D

Also, check pages 2 and 3 (I think) for the discussion on enchantment. We've more or less got it figured out, we just need to figure out a few of the details.

Othniel Edden

2011-01-27, 09:40 PM

We've already decided to reclassify Dnd spells into the 6 ES schools. We have a system in place for enchantment.

Samfool

2011-01-27, 09:50 PM

Why not keep enchantment as a skill type thing?

Orbin Dules

2011-01-27, 09:57 PM

Thanks for the reminder. I did see the discussion on enchantment, I just wanted clarification in case I missed something. I will get working on the list post haste.

Othniel Edden

2011-01-27, 09:58 PM

Why not keep enchantment as a skill type thing?

Balance and complexity issues.

Samfool

2011-01-27, 10:20 PM

Really? You could just have it like a DC thing, you have a minimum requirement for soul gems to enchant things (Common SoulGem more powerful than Lesser), and the higher the gem, the more complex the enchantment, but that makes it more likely you will fail.

Othniel Edden

2011-01-27, 10:38 PM

Necro_EX

2011-01-27, 10:41 PM

Yupyup, the only thing left on enchantment is figuring a way of determining the strength of a soul, and then a scale for enchantments.

Samfool

2011-01-27, 11:02 PM

Hrmm, maybe we can get around that by making the materials be the base weapon + soul gem instead of cash

Othniel Edden

2011-01-28, 03:16 PM

hmm, we should figure out what we need to run a test game. I'm kinda eager to see if this stuff works. Once we have enough, we can reorganize this stuff into a new thread with a table of contents and everything.

I was thinking organized as so;
Chapter 1- Intro
Chapter 2- Table of Contents
Chapter 3- Races
Chapter 4- Classes
(a) Magic
(b) Combat
(c) Stealth
Chapter 5- Prestige classes
Chapter 6- New Skills and Feats
Chapter 7- Equipment
Chapter 8- Magic and Spells
(a) Alteration
(b) Conjuration
(c) Destruction
(d) Illusion
(e) Mysticism
Chapter 9- Monsters
Chapter 10- Clarifications on Variant Rules in use and general differences from 3.5
Chapter 10- Extras

Samfool

2011-01-28, 03:52 PM

If I can find a good PDF file sharing site, then I will make the thing if you guys want.

Othniel Edden

2011-01-28, 04:00 PM

I'm just wondering what we need for a game to begin really. Organizing can come later :mitd:

Necro_EX

2011-01-29, 11:27 AM

Well, after we get all the base classes down, enough creatures, some special materials, a few unique items perhaps, and finish enchantment I think we might be able to run a test game.

I'm giving blood today, but after that I think I'll do a Telvanni prc.
I think I'll do two for each organization.

Othniel Edden

2011-01-31, 12:44 AM

Class Reference Chart
{table=head]Class|Magic|Stealth|Combat|Notes and Status|Prestige class|Link to latest version

Acrobat| | x ||Eliminated|

Agent||x| |not started|x|

Archer|||x|merged with Scout|

Assassin||x||DB/Morag Tong versions|x|Post 26- DB (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10211893&postcount=26)

Barbarian|||x|Maybe as PHB||

Bard||x||Improved version, not started|||

Battlemage|x|||Prestige class and base class both exist|x|Post 91 Base and Prestige versions (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10226239&postcount=91)

Crusader|||x|Draft 1 up||Post 115 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10234010&postcount=115)

Healer|x|||Othniel working on|||

Knight|||x|Not started, posible multiple PrCs|x|

Mage|x|||Has access to all spell lists, not started||

Monk||x||Maybe as PHB||

Nightblade|x|||Not being worked on|x|

Pilgrim||x||Not being worked on||

Rogue||x||Maybe as PHB||

Scout|||x|Draft 1 up||Post 93 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10226454&postcount=93)

Sorcerer|x|||Necro Ex working on||

Spellsword|x|||Draft 1 up||Post 179 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10274791&postcount=179)

Thief||x||Eliminated||

Warrior|||x| As PHB Fighter||

Witchhunter|x|||Draft 1 Up||Post 125 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10239517&postcount=125)[/table]

New Classes
{table=head]Class|Magic|Stealth|Combat|Notes and Status|Prestige class|Link to latest version

Enchanter|x|||Draft 1 up||Post 64 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10218705&postcount=64)

Hircine Huntsman||x||Draft 1 up|x| Post 26 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10211893&postcount=26)

Manic|x|||Draft 1 up|x|Post 26 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10211893&postcount=26)[/table]

Freyr

2011-01-31, 03:09 AM

This thread reminded me of something I worked on a while ago so here are the races I came up with for the Elder Scrolls world. These were intened for Oblivion bye the way. (sorry about any formating issues)
High Elves (Altmer)
Traits:
+2 Int +2 Dex
Medium size
Base land speed 30 ft
Weakness 5 to fire, frost and shock
+4 on saving throws vs. Disease

Argonians
Traits:
+2 Dex -2 Wis
Medium size
Base land speed 30 ft
Swim speed 40 ft, like all creatures with a swim speed an Argonian has a +8 racial bonus on swim checks and can always take 10 on swim checks even when rushed or threatened
Immune to Basic Poison, +2 bonus on saving throws vs. Diseases
Water Breathing: An Argonian can breath water as easily as it does air

Wood Elves (Bosmer)
Traits:
As Wood Elves

Breton
Traits:
+2 Int -2 Str
Medium size
Base land speed 30 ft
Spell resist 6+HD
+2 racial bonus on Knowledge (Arcana) and Spellcraft checks

Dark Elves (Dunmer)
Traits:
+2 Dex -2 Wis
Medium size
Base land speed 40 ft
Resist Fire 10
Low-light Vision
Spell like abilities: 3/day, Shield

Imperials
Traits:
As Human

Khajiits
Traits:
+2 Dex -2 Wis
Medium size
Base land speed 40 ft
+2 racial bonus on hide and move silently checks
+6 racial bonus on jump checks
Dark-vision 60 ft
Cause Fear 1/day as a gaze attack DC is Cha Based
Nords
Traits:
+2 Str +2 Con -2 Int -2 Cha
Medium size
Base land speed 30 ft
Immune Cold , Resist Shock 5

Orcs (Orsimer)
Traits:
+2 Str -2 Cha
Medium size
Base land speed 30 ft
Once per day an Orc can enter a rage in a rage, an Orc gains phenomenal strength and durability but becomes reckless and less able to defend himself. He temporarily
gains a +4 bonus to Strength, a +4 bonus to Constitution, and a +2 morale bonus on Will saves, but he takes a –2 penalty to Armor Class. The increase in Constitution increases the Orc’s hit points by 2 points per level, but these hit points go away at the end of the rage when his Constitution score drops back to normal. While raging, an Orc cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except for Balance, Escape Artist, Intimidate, and Ride), the Concentration skill, or any abilities that require patience or concentration, nor can he cast spells or activate magic items that require a command word, a spell trigger (such as a wand), or spell completion (such as a scroll) to function. He can use
any feat he has except Combat Expertise, item creation feats, and metamagic feats. A fit of rage lasts for a number of rounds equal to 3 + the character’s (newly improved) Constitution modifier. An Orc may prematurely end his rage. At the end of the rage, the Orc loses the rage modifiers and restrictions and becomes fatigued (–2 penalty to Strength, –2 penalty to Dexterity, can’t charge or run) for the duration of the current encounter

Redguards
Traits: +2 Str +2 Dex -2 Wis -2 Cha
Medium size
Base land speed 40 ft
Racial Armour Proficiency: Redguards are always proficient with light armour and light shields
+2 racial bonus on Profession (sailor) and balance checks
+2 racial bonus on saving throws vs. disease and poison

Othniel Edden

2011-01-31, 06:44 AM

Notes on Spell casters
True Spell Casting: 9th level spells, Full flexibility
Mage- d4, all spell lists, wizard bonus feats, casts prepared spells

Full Spell Casting: 9th level spells, limited flexibility
Battlemage- d8, alteration and destruction spell lists, fighter bonus feats, casts spontaneously (still needs spells known list)
Sorcerer- d?, Alteration, Conjuration, Destruction, and Mysticism spell lists, maybe about tactical combat
Healer- d6, restoration, mysticism, and alteration spell lists for certain, improved healing abilities, adds status effects to unarmed attacks, wis bonus to AC when unarmored, prepares spells as cleric

Gish: Up to level 6 casting
Witchhunter- d8, conjuration, mysticism and destruction spell lists, ranger like abilities, prepares spells as wizard
Spellsword- d8 or d10, Alteration, Destruction, and Restoration spell lists, able to spells to blade, prepare spells as Cleric

Partial Casters: up to level 4 casting, no cantrips
Crusader- d10, Paladin like, presumably casts spells of the destruction and restoration schools, prepares spells as Paladin
Bard- d?, magical abilities with the perform skill, and skilled with illusions.
Pilgrim- d?, Illusion and restoration spell lists, likely a skill monkey school with minor spell casting elements

Samfool

2011-01-31, 08:55 AM

Thanks for those races, I will do a little more work with them.

Othniel Edden

2011-01-31, 02:15 PM

Spellsword class, fluff later
Spellsword

Hit Die: d8

Class Skills:
The spellsword’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Profession (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Swim (Str).
Skill Points at first level: (2+Int)*2
Skill points at every level past first: 2

SPELLSWORD
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th

1st|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+2|Armored Mage(light), Channel Spell|3|1

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+0|
+3| Aegis|4|2|-

3rd|
+2|
+3|
+1|
+3||4|2|1|-

4th|
+3|
+4|
+1|
+4|Armored Mage(medium), Enhance ability 1/day|5|3|2|-|-

5th|
+3|
+4|
+1|
+4|Elemental Substitution 1/day|5|3|2|1|-|-

6th|
+4|
+5|
+2|
+5|Quickened Channel|5|3|3|2|-|-|-

7th|
+5|
+5|
+2|
+5|Armored Mage(Heavy shields)|6|4|3|2|1|-|-|-

8th|
+6/+1|
+6|
+2|
+6|Enhance Ability 2/day, |6|4|3|3|2|-|-|-|-|-

9th|
+6/+1|
+6|
+3|
+6||6|4|4|3|2|1|-|-|-|-

10th|
+7/+2|
+7|
+3|
+7|Elemental Substitution 2/day|6|4|4|3|3|2|-|-|-|-

11th|
+8/+3|
+7|
+3|
+7|MultiChannel|6|5|4|4|3|2|1|-|-|-

12th|
+9/+4|
+8|
+4|
+8|Enhance Ability 3/day|6|5|4|4|3|3|2|-|-|-

13th|
+9/+4|
+8|
+4|
+8||6|5|5|4|4|3|2|1|-|-

14th|
+10/+5|
+9|
+4|
+9|Elemental Substitution 3/day|6|5|5|4|4|3|3|2|-|-

15th|
+11/+6/+1|
+9|
+5|
+9||6|5|5|5|4|4|3|2|1|-

16th|
+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+5|
+10|Enhance Ability 4/day|6|5|5|5|4|4|3|3|2

17th|
+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+5|
+10||6|5|5|5|5|4|4|3|2|1

18th|
+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+6|
+11|Double Channel|6|5|5|5|5|4|4|3|3|2

19th|
+14/+9/+4|
+11|
+6|
+11||6|5|5|5|5|5|4|4|3|3

20th|
+15/+10/+5|
+12|
+6|
+12|Elemental Substitution 4/day, Enhance Ability 5/day|6|5|5|5|5|5|4|4|4|4[/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies:
Proficient in all martial and simple weapons. Proficient in Medium and Light Armor and all shields except for tower shields.

Spells:
A spellsword casts arcane spells, which are drawn from the Alteration, Destruction, Illusion, and Restoration spell lists.

To prepare or cast a spell, a spellsword must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a spellsword’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the spellsword’s Wisdom modifier.

Like other spellcasters, a spellsword can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on the table below. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Wisdom score.

Channeling Spells:
At 1st level a spellsword can channel any spell she can cast into her melee weapon. Using this ability requires a move action, and the spellsword must make a fortitude save or risk losing the spell. The channelled spell affects the next target the spellsword successfully attacks with her weapon (spell resistance and saving throws still apply). Even if the spell normally only affects an area, or is a ray, it affects only the target. A spellsword can channel her spells into only one weapon at a time. Spells channelled into a weapon are lost if not used in eight hours.

Armored Mage:
At 1st level a spellsword gains the ability to cast spells in light armor and shields without risking arcane spell failure. At fourth level they gain proficiency with Medium Armor and shields and the ability to wear it without risking arcane spell failure. At 7th level, they gain proficiency with heavy shields and can use them without risking arcane spell failure

Aegis:
At 2nd level a spellsword gains the ability to grant themselves a +2 Shield bonus to AC against one attack as an Immediate Action. Usable (Wisdom modifier) times per day. (1st)

Enhance Attribute:
Once per day, starting at fourth level, a spellsword can gain a +2 Enhancement bonus to one of her Ability scores for one minute per Caster level. Activated as a Swift Action. This increases at 8th, 12th, 16th and 20th levels.

Elemental Substitution
Once per day, starting at 5th level, you may change the Energy Type of a designated spell to another of your choosing. This is done as a Free Action just before you cast the spell.
Increases at 10th, 14th, and 20th levels

Quicken channeling
At 6th level you may channel spells as a swift action

Multichannel
At 12th level you may channel spells into more than one weapon

Double channel
At 18th level you may channel two spells into the same weapon.

Edit: Fixed some typos, moved Elemental Substitution 3/day up one level.

Necro_EX

2011-01-31, 10:48 PM

Lookin' good. :D

I started on pilgrim today, but some people came by and ate up some of my time. Also, I might not be on for a couple days, there's a nasty winter storm coming my way, and it might knock out the power. :/

Othniel Edden

2011-01-31, 11:21 PM

Should be interesting to see how Pilgrim turns out. I keep seeing a weird connection between bard, rogue and cleric for it. Obviously a skill monkey of some type.

super dark33

2011-02-01, 09:54 AM

We should use all PHB classes, id love to see an imperial paladin/blade (as aprestiege class).

the magic system is good: as in the normal, burning hands is transmutition spell, and not evocation.

we should start working on the Blade prestiege class.

Samfool

2011-02-01, 10:17 AM

The base classes maybe difficult to work with,
like barbarian, it has a rage.
Redguards have a rage too,
and so do orcs.

Necro_EX

2011-02-01, 11:11 AM

What I've got for pilgrim is actually something akin to PF's witch.
I'll have that version up later tonight for review, assuming the snow storm doesn't blow out my power.

EDIT: Some stuff came up, so it won't be up tonight. :/
Also, I'm not so sure I like the design I've got going for it...

Guess I'll go back to factions and prcs, I feel more comfortable there.
I'll dump what I have for pilgrim, if anyone's interested, but right now it's just the witch, really. :/

Othniel Edden

2011-02-01, 11:31 PM

PM your details necro, maybe you and can collaborate.

Codemus

2011-02-02, 12:07 AM

Sorry I haven’t done anything in a while. Been a little busy. :smallbiggrin:

Anywho, I don’t know what to do for the Knight. I started work on it as a 5 level PRC, but I'm kinda running dry on ideas. Any thoughts? Do they really need to have their own class?

Here is what I have so far:

Knight

Requirements: To qualify to become a , a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Base Attack Bonus: +5
Skills: Ride 8, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) 2
Feats: Mounted Combat
Special:

Hit Die: d12

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1st|+1|+2|+0|+2|Knight’s Code, Force of Will
2nd|+2|+3|+0|+3|Shield Excellence, Weapon Focus (Lance)
3rd|+3|+3|+1|+3|
4th|+4|+4|+1|+4| Weapon Specialization (Lance)
5th|+5|+4|+1|+4|
[/table]
Class Skills (2 + Int modifier per level): Climb, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (nobility and royalty), Ride, Swim.

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Knight.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The Knight gains proficiency with martial weapons and with light armor and shields.

Knight’s Code: You fight not only to defeat your foes but also to prove your honor, demonstrate your fighting ability, and win renown across the land. The stories that arise from your deeds are just as important to you as the deeds themselves. A good knight hopes that her example encourages other s to lead righteous lives. A neutral knights wishes to uphold the cause of his liege (if he has one) and win glory. An evil knight seeks to win acclaim across the land and increase his own personal power.
The knight’s code focuses on fair play: a victory achieved through pure skill is more difficult, and hence wins more glory, than one achieved through trickery or guile.

1: A knight does not gain a bonus on attack rolls when flanking. You still confer the benefit of a flanking position to your ally, but you forgo your own +2 bonus on attack rolls. You can choose to keep the +2 bonus, but doing so violates your code of honor (see below),
2: A knight never strikes a flat-footed opponent. Instead, you allow your foe to ready himself before attacking.
3: A knight never deals lethal damage against a helpless foe. You can strike a foe, but only with attacks that deal non-lethal damage.

If you violate any part of this code, you loose access to some abilities, and you take a –2 penalty on attack rolls and saves for the rest of the day. Your betrayal of your code of conduct undermines the foundation of confidence and honor that drives you forward.
While you cleave to your view of honor, chivalry, and pursuit of glory, you do not force your views on other. You might chide a rogue for sneaking around a battlefield, but you recognize (and perhaps even feel a bit smug about) the reality that not everyone is fit to follow the knight’s path.

Force of Will (su): A Knight relies on strength of character as well as strength of arms. They may apply their Charisma bonus to all saving throws.

Shield Excellence (ex): A Knight is adept at defending against attacks from all angles. When using a shield, a Knight gains Damage Reduction/- equal to the AC bonus granted by the shield.

Weapon Focus (Lance): A Knight gains Weapon Focus (Lance) as a bonus feat at 2nd level, even if they don’t meet the prerequisites.

Weapon Specialization (Lance): A Knight gains Weapon Specialization (Lance) as a bonus feat at 4th level, even if they don’t meet the prerequisites.

Othniel Edden

2011-02-02, 12:10 AM

Codemus

2011-02-02, 12:25 AM

My thoughts on the Knight is to use it for mutliple prestige classes rather than just one. For example we could just use it as a base for the Daggerfall Knight Orders (http://uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Knightly_Orders) Prestige classes.

That could work. Speaking of Daggerfall, where did that game take place? My knowlege of Daggerfall is not as complete as morrowind or oblivion.

Necro_EX

2011-02-02, 01:37 AM

Daggerfall took place between Hammerfell and High Rock.

As for knights, I definitely think it could be broken into several prcs. You have all the knightly orders from Daggerfall, the imperial army, Morrowind's great houses, the fighter's guild, even.

Like I said, my goal is 2 for every faction.
What I have planned right now for Telvanni is the wizard-lord and the lawman. The lawman will be one used for their lower-ranking non-mage members that they enjoy keeping around with their crazy cephalopod-helmets.

Hlaalu will likely have a social interaction based one and a warrior.
Redoran will likely have two different warrior-y ones.
Dres will have a social one and one for slavers.
Indoril...I'm not so sure on, just yet.

Then there's of course the temple. Ordinator's an obvious one.

And that's just some of the Morrowind-specific groups. :D

EDIT: Here's the House Hlaalu faction information. I'll start on the prestige classes tonight, I think.

Great House Hlaalu
"As a result of its close relationship with the Imperial administration, House Hlaalu has emerged as politically and economically dominant among the Great Houses of Vvardenfell and Morrowind. Hlaalu welcomes Imperial culture and law, Imperial Legions and bureaucracy, and Imperial freedom of trade and religion. Hlaalu still honors the old Dunmer ways -- the ancestors, the Temple, and the noble houses -- but has readily adapted to the rapid pace of change and progress in the Imperial provinces." — Great Houses of Morrowind

One of Morrowind's Great Houses, House Hlaalu is the dominant cultural and economic power in Morrowind. Unlike the other Great Houses, Hlaalu has readily accepted imperial customs which has lead to its propering in recent years. House Hlaalu's members handle themselves in a rather business-like and formal manner; business comes first, before even morals. These opportunistic house members have a strong grip on Morrowind's economy.

Joining House Hlaalu
Joining House Hlaalu is simple enough. One simply must head to Hlaalu Council Manor in Balmora and seek membership. Upon attaining membership with House Hlaalu one can rise in the ranks by showing an aptitude for handling the needs of the house. Worthy members are promoted readily and only remain in 'hireling' status for a brief time.

Entry Requirements: Diplomacy 3 ranks.
House Hlaalu is a very formal organization and its members are expected to behave accordingly and to have knowledge of how to hold oneself in courtly high society. Members of the house who can make and reinforce business relations and alliances are valued over those who are less apt at such things, and are much more likely to be welcomed into the highest ranks of House Hlaalu.

Great House Hlaalu Benefits
Great House Hlaalu has many resources available to it and its senior members are generally quite wealthy and more than willing to part with small shares of their wealth to lower ranking members in return for a job well done. Members of the house can definitely expect to be welcomed in any of the Hlaalu owned towns in Morrowind and may also receive discounts in house-sanctioned markets. The greatest benefit of belonging to House Hlaalu, however, is definitely the connections.
Economics: House Hlaalu is the wealthiest of the five remaining dunmeri Great Houses; House Hlaalu has its fingers in nearly every market in Morrowind and is the only Great House willing to openly cooperate with the empire. Because it is the only house that will work with the imperial culture it is the main exporter of the nation and holds a near-monopoly on most of Morrowind's natural resources such as glass, ebony, and kwama.
Taken collectively, the house has a gp limit of 100,000. (as though it were a community wealthy as a metropolis; see page 137 of the DMG).
Gear: The highest ranking members of House Hlaalu are all wealthy enough to equip themselves quite well, but fresh hirelings and oathmen may not be so high-born. Such members often find themselves among the guards of House Hlaalu and are often granted Armun-An bonemold armor, a sacred symbol of House Hlaalu.
Services: House Hlaalu's members can often find great discounts on services in Hlaalu owned towns, and higher ranking members are often welcomed into the manors of their peers as honored guests. Any inn would of course welcome a member of Great House Hlaalu, and most salesmen would be more than happy to get on the good side of a member of the house.
Information: Hlaalu's fingers dig deep into every market in Morrowind. If there is a rumor floating about in Suran's markets, its likely that a member in Balmora might have information on this. The house likes to keep tabs on everything going on in Morrowind so it may take advantage of any new findings or any unrest among their rivals.
Access: House Hlaalu's elder members are all wealthy landowners and every Hlaalu owned town in Morrowind has at least one manor overlooking it. These manors are all, of course, private property, but the members of House Hlaalu are cordial and formal with eachother and one may often find themself the honored guest at one of these manors.

Playing a member of House Hlaalu
Members of House Hlaalu are often and accurately described as opportunistic and shrewd businessmen. The wisest and most experienced of them are wealthy businessmen and powerful landowners, while the freshest of them may be too ambitious for their own good. Whatever may be said of the house, its ways have been proven as it is the wealthiest and most influential of the remaining Great Houses of Morrowind.
Combat: House Hlaalu has wealth in more than just gold; House Hlaalu has many, many members. Their lowest ranking members may not be anything against the might of Telvanni's wizard-lords, and they may not have the spirit of the Redoran, but Hlaalu has numbers on its side. Many of the house's nobles are also seasoned warriors and tacticians.
Of course, the days when the houses would openly wage war against eachother are long passed. Now the houses fight eachother from the shadows, contracting the Morag-Tong to handle the members of the other houses.
Advancement: Members of House Hlaalu may rise in rank based on merit. The house respects members who can offer something to it, those who are masters of speechcraft and mercantilism are often praised and welcomed into the highest ranks of the house. Those with great martial skill are often brought to high status as well and may find themselves as landowners or captains among the Hlaalu House Guard.
Missions: Courtly members of House Hlaalu may often be sent to better relations with another political entity, or they may be assigned to secure an important business deal.
Other members of the house will often find themselves either simply with guard duty or sent off to defend the more courtly members. Though the times when the houses would openly war against eachother, there is still plenty of plotting to be had, and the land is not without bandits, highwaymen, vampires, wandering Daedra, and cultists.
Responsibilities: Members of House Hlaalu are expected to represent the house well. Members of the house are to present themselves as proper and prosperous members of society and are to keep the reputation of the house high. Members who disgrace the house are likely to be expelled, as are those who make themselves useless.

House Hlaalu in the world
"In the great wind of progress, tradition cannot stand. Grasp fortune by the forelocks. When you see your chances, seize them. When you see a chance to turn a profit, take it. But do not follow money blindly. There is value in reputation, more than many young Hlaalu realize. This value must be carefully balanced against the more tangible coins in any deal. Theft and murder are bad for business. You can steal from someone, but will he trade with you after that? You can't bargain with a dead man." — Grasping Fortune

House Hlaalu is in every aspect of Morrowind and is the major force behind Morrowind's economy. Because of this House Hlaalu works well for any sort of campaign structure and its senior members can easily function as the party's benefactor(s).

NPC Reactions
House Hlaalu's members are generally well accepted in the westernized parts of Morrowind. A member of this house might enjoy frequent discounts on goods, free stay at another's home, etc... Though many people might not trust members of Great House Hlaalu, most try to keep a good report with them.
Merchants will almost always welcome Hlaalu with open arms, knowing that even the lower-ranking members might have some pull in their market and it's always best to be friends with the economic power-house. Nobles and imperial officials will often receive Hlaalu quite well, again owing to the fact that it's always good to have powerful allies. NPCs of other occupations will receive Hlaalu's members in various different ways, of course.

Great House Hlaalu Lore
Characters with ranks in Knowledge (History) can research Great House Hlaalu to learn more about the organization.
DC10: Great House Hlaalu is the most powerful of Morrowind's current great houses, and is the economic powerhouse behind Morrowind.
DC15: Some believe Great House Hlaalu has completely abandoned the old ways of the dunmeri people, but this is not entirely true. Their members still revere the gods, their ancestors, and the land. Tradition and morals simply come after business for Hlaalu.
DC20: Great House Hlaalu has its fingers in nearly every market in Morrowind and in recent years it's been rumored that some of Hlaalu's senior members have started working their way into Cyrodiilic markets as well.

Affiliation Specifics
The following criteria apply to members of Great House Hlaalu.

{table=head]Criterion | Affiliation score modifier
One-Time |
Character level | 1/2 levels
Knowledge (History) 5 ranks | +1
Diplomacy 5 ranks | +2
Sense Motive 5 ranks | +1
Own at least a small business | +2
Descendant of a house noble | +2
Have wealth beyond what the 'average' person of your level should | +3
Has a good reputation in general | +2
Has performed well for an elder member | +2
Multiple Use |
Completes a task for one of the masters or magisters | +4
Forms, strengthens, saves, or protects an important business deal | +6
Every 2,000gp donated to the house's coffers | +2
Loses a business contact | -4
Fails a task from an elder member | -2[/table]

Affiliation
{table=head]Rank | Score | Titles: Benefits and Duties
0 | 5 or lower | Hireling, nothing
1 | 6-10 | Lawman, access to discounted goods from house owned markets, may be afforded Amun-An bonemold armor
2 | 11-20 | House Kinsman/cousin, Typically well received, may even benefit from discounts outside of Hlaalu markets
3 | 21-29 | House Brother/Father, Stronghold, possibly made head of a town
4 | 30+ | Councilman, may become head of House Hlaalu as Grandmaster[/table]

Othniel Edden

2011-02-03, 06:57 PM

Kay, I'm moving but I think I can get Healer up by Tuesday. scaling a bit of it back into a more, and working on some type of variations of ki strike+conditions. Maybe like a Hexblade/cleric/monk combo.

Othniel Edden

2011-02-04, 06:47 PM

So are we going with homebrews or PHB, at least somewhat refluffed, for Bard, Barbarian, Rogue and Warrior(Fighter)?

For Bard I think we can work off of the PHB, but it doesn't fit fluff wise or balance wise for the world.

Barbarian, I think Barbarian is fine as is...though it could be fun to come up with Nord, Ashlander and Orc substitution levels.

Rogue, I think rogue could be powered up a little. Maybe by adding a small amount of bonus feats?

Fighter, maybe add in substitution levels or variants?

Samfool

2011-02-04, 07:44 PM

The Orc and Redguard rages may conflict with the barbarian rages a little

Othniel Edden

2011-02-04, 08:25 PM

We could phrase them so they don't stack.

Samfool

2011-02-04, 08:47 PM

Dont stack how?
You cannot rage one while raging another?
That would help..

Necro_EX

2011-02-04, 09:11 PM

On Nords/Orcs/Redguards as barbarians - I was thinking it would essentially be an additional use of rage per day, since the Orcs and Nords are always described as being the fiercest warriors. Just add a little snippet to the end of each of their racial features like 'This ability may not be used combined with the rage class feature of the barbarian, and counts as rage for any feats the character may take.'

That way, an n/o/r of any class may use feats that augment rage, even if they only get the one use of it, and it synergizes with barbarian's rage simply and effectively as one additional use.

As for homebrew or PHB on those classes - I was personally thinking homebrew, at least some augmentation on the PHB versions. So far it looks like our homebrewed classes sit somewhere between 3.5 and PF power-wise, so the default PHB versions might feel a tad gimpy in comparison.

If we ramp up some of the classes we've done so far, we could probably use the PF versions of those classes.

Othniel Edden

2011-02-04, 11:50 PM

I think that many other races will be losing racial spell like abilities, like Dunmer and the free summon, or Cryodillians and the Voice of the Emperor. Why not just have Redgaurd and Orcs lose rage like these might?

Necro_EX

2011-02-05, 12:44 AM

As much as I'd hate to see those go, I'd definitely understand if the consensus was to nix 'em.

super dark33

2011-02-05, 04:39 AM

Nords and orcs can be fighters, and still have a rage abillity, htey just get extra rage abillity

Samfool

2011-02-05, 02:52 PM

Their rage abilities are not really just rage.
They are wayy different.
IMO, they should not be able to augment it with Rage Feats.
That would not be fair to any other race, because they cannot modify their powers with feats, or have any similar power.

Othniel Edden

2011-02-05, 03:08 PM

For redgaurds its more like a buff for all physical attributes, and for Orcs its more like a boost in CON and BAB at the cost of Dex. The problem with the spell like abilities is that they aren't really balanced and I'm in favor of cutting them if they keep a race above a LA +0 or +1.

Edit: Thinking about it some more and the Orcs basically get Power attack as a bonus feat in game. Redgaurds get a bunch of layered transmutation spells.

Necro_EX

2011-02-05, 10:21 PM

Well, we could go the Eberron route with it and give each race some racial feats to pick from. Perhaps replace some of the racial features I had written in with the availability of racial feats?

EDIT: When I had written them up I gave the orcs and redguards rage 1/day because it was the closest comparison I could think of in 3.5 to either of their abilities in the games and figured it was a close enough approximation of what the fluff says of them both, plus if they picked barbarian they got a free feat out of the deal that sort of reflected what it does for them in MW, so a redguard gets extended rage which lets him keep going and the orc gets destructive rage which gives him a more fierce feeling.

That was the thought process that went into it, at least.
I wasn't really worried about balancing them at the time, I was more concerned with translating their abilities in-game into their racials, which I admit does kinda make it seems a little unbalanced, but they each have something going for them, I figured. :/

Again, if the consensus is to cut 'em I'm fine with it, but I'd like to replace them with racial feats if that's the case.

Othniel Edden

2011-02-06, 01:14 AM

Well, if you compare the in-game abilities some of these can easily be converted into static stats. Like Khajit get Dark Vision and a fear ability. As a racial designer I'd just turn that into a skill bonus for intimidate. For Argonians I'd just make them amphibious by giving them a swim speed and something that notes they can breath underwater.

If we are to include the spell like abilities I think only a few of these won't at least be LA +1 or +2. Khajhit, Bosmer, and Argonians would be our LA 0 races, but only if the Bosmer would have speak with animals the cantrip rather than charm creature. Our LA+1 would likely be Nords, Altmer and Orcs, and our LA+2 would be Imperials, Dunmer, Bretons and Redguards.

Necro_EX

2011-02-06, 01:49 AM

Yeah, I'm seeing what you're getting at.
If nixing some of those spell-likes brings them all down to LA+0 then it's a good move, in my book. I freaking hate having to deal with level adjustment, and I'd hate to see the base races spread out by that.

Samfool

2011-02-06, 09:52 AM

Well, how about we nerf the heck out of um.
Take all the spell-like abilities and cut them in half, give them a +2/-2,-2 for stats, etc. etc.

Othniel Edden

2011-02-06, 01:23 PM

My suggestion is that we use the concept of the races, and start from scratch there. We reference the extra abilities to fill out fluff mechanics, by finding cantripped versions of those spells, or turning things into skill and save bonuses, or immunities.

Like in Lore articles it mentions that Altmer are seen as prideful to the point of being hard to deal with, but they are the most intelligent race in all Tamerial, and the best magic users. (+2 Int, - 2 Cha) Looking at their article they also mention resilience against disease (situational bonuses to fort) and to being paralyzed (bonuses to will saves against illusion), but vulnerabilities to fire, cold and electrical damage. To even this out we might give them spell penetration as a bonus feat or bonus spells in Alteration, Destruction, and Mysticism. We could also simulate this extra magic by giving them an additional +2 Int, but then we turn to game mechanics to balance this. We see that -2 to strength is on both sexes, but this doesn't balance out a caster race, at which point we need to consider a -2 to either Dex or Con.

Samfool

2011-02-06, 02:19 PM

I think the -2 to con would be a better idea.
I like the thought of taking the concept of the races and making new ones rather than try to transfer over the raw data from one game to the other.

Necro_EX

2011-02-08, 08:00 PM

Sorry I haven't been posting anything up, but life's been a little hectic, lately. :/

I should be able to put up the Pilgrim tomorrow.

Any progress on the races?

Othniel Edden

2011-02-09, 03:54 AM

I'm wondering if it wouldn't be kinda cool to have a Dragonborn PrC based off of the next game in the series. Also might be cool to look at how they do races in the next one.

Othniel Edden

2011-02-09, 04:13 PM

My notes on Argonians indicates through out Elder Scrolls history that they've been smart and fast, with the best swim time and at least the ability to hold their breathe if not fully amphibious. In the last 2 games both sexes had lower Personalities, and since Daggerfall they've had issues with endurance. Since the first game its indicated that at least males have both speed and agility. For females its a bit more spotty, being given strength in Daggerfall, and Int in both Morrowind and Oblivion. In arena it mentions that the whole race is good with intelligence (and the arcane), agility and speed.

Because sexual dimorphism is harder to express in DnD, these are my recommendations on combined stats for the Argonians; +2 Dex, -2 Con, +2 Int, -2 Cha. +2 racial bonus on Balance, Jump, and Swim checks. Immune to poisons, +2 to Fort Saves against disease. 30 ft. land and swim speeds, and the hold breath[1] ability.

Bretons are a bit harder. I mean Arena gives them evasion for spells;
"Bretons are a tall, dark-haired people. Bretons are highly intelligent and willful people, and have an outgoing personality. It is said that Bretons are weaned on magic, for it seems to suffuse their very being. As a result Bretons take half damage on any Magic based attack, and no damage on a successful save. They are excellent in all the arcane arts."
I'd probably tone that down, as others only give them resist magika, or spell resistance. I'm more keen on saves against magical effects personally. What Bretons don't fare well with is physical stats, with them getting minuses to Endurance and Agility in each of the games from daggerfall up. Given no particular skills to choose from here, maybe they get the human bonus skill thingy or maybe we take from the French culture they are suppose to based off of and find skill bonuses to give them there...

My recommendations for them are; -2 Dex, -2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 to saves against magic effects, and other added stuff. Perhaps Shield as a racial spell.

[1]Hold Breath

A Argonian can hold its breath for a number of rounds equal to four times its Constitution score before it risks drowning.

Samfool

2011-02-09, 04:46 PM

Maybe taking directly from the elderscrolls is not the best idea.
I mean, when was the last time you have seen an intelligent argonian? Webem-Na certainly wasnt one.
And I am sure a beton battle mage would despise the -2 dex and con. Maybe the dex should stay, but the con is just too much

Othniel Edden

2011-02-09, 06:01 PM

Maybe taking directly from the elderscrolls is not the best idea.
I mean, when was the last time you have seen an intelligent argonian? Webem-Na certainly wasnt one.
Skink-in-Tree's-Shade, Heem-La, Chanil-Lee, and An-Zaw are all mages guild members of rank four or higher in Morrowind. All high ranking mages in a society that enslaves them? Kud-Ei(wizard), Deetsan(magician), Teekeeus (wizard), Tar-Meena (Master-Wizard), and Druja(apprentice) all show themselves to be quite scholarly during game play. Argonian females think very well according to the game, and thier status throughout the games. What you are mostly seeing is the result of environment. Most Argonians are poor, so they turn to thieving. They also have rather alien facial expressions and manners of speech. Doesn't make them any less intelligent then a foreign nuclear physicist that has a hard time with English. Not being able to socially interact well is a charisma thing, not an intelligence thing.

And I am sure a beton battle mage would despise the -2 dex and con. Maybe the dex should stay, but the con is just too much

Bretons in game make pretty bad battle mages in game play. Lore does not touch on their stats other than their adeptness at magic, which means we turn to in game mechanics to explain it. Consistently Bretons have bad Endurance. :-/

If you want to pay attention to those that would be best at hybrid classes Argonians are the best stealthy magic types(Nightblades), while Dunmer are the best Warrior magic types(Spellswords, Crusaders, Battlemages). Bretons and Altmer are the best pure casters, Bosmer and Khajit the best pure sneaks, and Nords, Orcs and Redguards are the best pure warriors. Imperials are the best social race.

super dark33

2011-02-10, 08:50 AM

My

My recommendations for them are; -2 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Cha, +2 to saves against magic effects, and other added stuff.Entropic shell that works aginst melee too as a racial spell.

Fixed it, Int is for wizards, Cha is for sorcerers (many great sorcerers raised from high rock)

Redguards should be like this:

+2 con,+2 str, -2 int, -2 wis
adrenaline rush should be a more refined form of rage

And Imperials are pure paladins or bards

Othniel Edden

2011-02-10, 10:14 AM

Fixed it, Int is for wizards, Cha is for sorcerers (many great sorcerers raised from high rock)
Sorcerer is an INT based class in the Elder Scrolls Universe.

super dark33

2011-02-10, 11:36 AM

And they are profiecent in heavy armor instead of alchemy too, i only played oblivion.
and they still splited Charisma to two: personality and willpower, so charisma is still a blaster stat

Othniel Edden

2011-02-10, 12:02 PM

Necro_EX

2011-02-10, 02:48 PM

Alright, here's the pilgrim that Othniel and I worked on.

Pilgrim
Hit Die: d8

Class Skills

The Pilgrim's class skills (and the key ability for each) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Bluff (Cha), Craft (Alchemy)(Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (All skills taken separately) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis)
Skill points at each level: 4+int modifier

Class Features
All the following are the class features of the Pilgrim.

Level | BAB | F | R | W | Special
1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | Detect evil, dark knowledge (tactics) 3/day
2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 3 | Lay on hands, lore mastery
3 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 3 | Dark knowledge 4/day
4 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 4 |
5 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 4 | Dark knowledge (puissance)
6 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 5 | Remove disease 1/week, Dark knowledge 5/day
7 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 5 | Lore mastery
8 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 6 | Dark knowledge (foe)
9 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 6 | Remove disease 2/week, Dark knowledge 6/day
10 | 5 | 3 | 3 | 7 |
11 | 5 | 3 | 3 | 7 | Dark knowledge (dread secret)
12 | 6 | 4 | 4 | 8 | Remove disease 3/week, Dark knowledge 7/day
13 | 6 | 4 | 4 | 8 | Lore mastery
14 | 7 | 4 | 4 | 9 | Dark knowledge (foreknowledge)
15 | 7 | 5 | 5 | 9 | Remove disease 4/week, Dark knowledge 8/day
16 | 8 | 5 | 5 | 10 |
17 | 8 | 5 | 5 | 10 | Lore mastery
18 | 9 | 6 | 6 | 11 | Remove disease 5/week, Dark knowledge 9/day
19 | 9 | 6 | 6 | 11 |
20 | 10 | 6 | 6 | 12 |

Armor and weapon proficiency: Pilgrims are proficient in light armor, all shields (except tower shields), and all simple weapons.

Detect evil: Starting at first level a pilgrim may use detect evil, as the spell, at will.

Dark knowledge: Three times per day, an pilgrim can draw upon his expansive knowledge
of monsters, granting his allies benefi ts against the creatures they face. Doing this counts as a move action. The secrets of dark knowledge pertains only to aberrations, elementals, magical
beasts, outsiders, or undead. A pilgrim unlocks new dark knowledge abilities as his level increases and can also call upon his dark knowledge more often, gaining one additional daily use for every three pilgrim levels (4/day at 3rd level, 5/day at 6th level,
and so forth). Using dark knowledge requires a Knowledge check of
a type appropriate to the creature faced. A Knowledge (arcana) check reveals secrets of magical beasts, Knowledge (dungeoneering) pertains to aberrations, Knowledge (religion)
covers undead, and Knowledge (the planes) applies to outsiders and elementals. The DC of the check is 15. Most of the archivist’s dark knowledge abilities increase
in effectiveness if he succeeds on his Knowledge check by 10 or more. Dark knowledge can only be used once against any given creature. The pilgrim’s dark knowledge can affect a single creature
or all creatures of the same race, depending on the effect used. A target creature must be within 60 feet, and the pilgrim must be aware of the creature’s presence, although he need
not have a line of sight to it. The effects of dark knowledge last for 1 minute, unless stated otherwise.
Tactics: The pilgrim knows the general combat behaviors
of creatures of that race, granting his allies a +1 bonus
to attack rolls made against them. For example, a pilgrim
confronted by corruption eaters* who succeeded
on his Knowledge (dungeoneering) check would
grant his allies the attack bonus against all the
corruption eaters they fought in that encounter.
If the pilgrim succeeds on his Knowledge
check by 10 or more, then this bonus increases
to +2. If the pilgrim succeeds
on his Knowledge check by 20 or more,
then this bonus increases to +3.
*New monster described on page 144.
Puissance: Starting at 5th level, the
pilgrim can use his dark knowledge
to help his allies fi ght off the corrupting
infl uence of other creatures. Allies
within 60 feet of the archivist gain a
+1 bonus on saving throws against
the affected creature’s abilities. If the
archivist succeeds on his Knowledge
check by 10 or more, this bonus increases
to +2. If the pilgrim succeeds
on his Knowledge check by 20 or more,
this bonus increases to +3.
Foe: Starting at 8th level, a pilgrim
can direct his allies to attack vital spots of
his enemies. On a successful Knowledge
check, he grants them a bonus to weapon
damage rolls made against the target creatures
equal to 1d6 points of damage. If
the archivist succeeds on his Knowledge
check by 10 or more, then this bonus increases
to 2d6. If the pilgrim succeeds
on his Knowledge check by 20 or more,
then this bonus increases to 3d6.
Dread Secret: By speaking aloud a dread
secret of the target creature, a pilgrim
of 11th level or higher can dazzle a target
creature for 1 round. Unlike other dark
knowledge, this ability can be used only
against a single creature. If the pilgrim succeeds
on his Knowledge check by 10 or more,
then the target is dazed for 1 round. If the pilgrim
succeeds on his Knowledge check by 20 or
more, then the target is stunned for 1 round (if the target is
immune to being stunned but not immune to being dazed,
such as most undead, then the archivist can choose to daze
the target instead of stunning it).
Foreknowledge: Starting at 14th level, a pilgrim can
better prepare his allies for the attacks of the affected
creature, making it harder for the creature to land blows
and successfully deal damage. Allies within 30 feet of the
archivist gain a +1 insight bonus to Armor Class that applies
to attacks by the affected creature only. If the pilgrim succeeds
on his Knowledge check by 10 or more, this bonus
increases to +2. If the pilgrim succeeds on his Knowledge
check by 20 or more, this bonus increases to +3.

Lore Mastery: Upon reaching 2nd level, an archivist gains
a +2 bonus to all Decipher Script checks and to all checks
of any one Knowledge skill of his choice. Once this choice
is made, it cannot be changed. At 7th, 13th, and 17th level,
the archivist can choose an additional Knowledge skill on
which to gain the +2 bonus.

Lay on hands: Beginning at second level, a pilgrim with a charisma score of 12 or higher can heal wounds (his own or those of others) by touch. Each day he can heal a total number of hit points of damage equal to his pilgrim level X his charisma bonus. For exampl, a 7th-level pilgrim with a 16 charisma (+3 bonus) can heal 21 points of damage per day. A pilgrim may choose to divide his healing among multiple recipients, and he doesn't have to use it all at once. Using lay on hands is a standard action.
Alternatively, a pilgrim can use any or all of his healing power to deal damage to undead creatures. Using lay on hands in this way requires a successful melee touch attack and doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. The pilgrim decides how many of his daily allotment of points to use as damage after successfully touching an undead creature.

Remove disease: At 6th level, a pilgrim can produce a remove disease effect, as the spell, once per week. He can use this ability one additional time per week for every three levels after sixth.

Spellcasting: Beginning at fourth level, the pilgrim may cast spells from the illusion spell list. The pilgrim uses his charisma to determine bonus spells and whether or not he has access to a given spell level, and the pilgrim's spell-casting is spontaneous.

Spellcasting:

Level | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4|
1 | - | - | - | - |
2 | - | - | - | - |
3 | - | - | - | - |
4 | 0 | - | - | - |
5 | 0 | - | - | - |
6 | 1 | - | - | - |
7 | 1 | - | - | - |
8 | 1 | 0 | - | - |
9 | 1 | 0 | - | - |
10 | 1 | 1 | - | - |
11 | 1 | 1 | 0 | - |
12 | 1 | 1 | 1 | - |
13 | 1 | 1 | 1 | - |
14 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0 |
15 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 |
16 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 1 |
17 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1 |
18 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 1 |
19 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 |
20 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 |

Maybe those empty levels could be filled out with bonus feats or skill tricks?

Othniel Edden

2011-02-10, 03:32 PM

I thought we agreed to get rid of dark knowledge for versatile domains?

Necro_EX

2011-02-10, 06:36 PM

Knew I forgot something. D:

I'll get on that here in a bit.

Necro_EX

2011-02-10, 11:09 PM

Here it is, fixed.

Pilgrim
Hit Die: d8

Class Skills

The Pilgrim's class skills (and the key ability for each) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Bluff (Cha), Craft (Alchemy)(Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (All skills taken separately) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis)
Skill points at each level: 4+int modifier

Class Features
All the following are the class features of the Pilgrim.

Level | BAB | F | R | W | Special
1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | Detect evil, variable domain
2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 3 | Lay on hands, lore mastery
3 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 3 |
4 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 4 |
5 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 4 |
6 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 5 | Remove disease 1/week
7 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 5 | Lore mastery
8 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 6 |
9 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 6 | Remove disease 2/week
10 | 5 | 3 | 3 | 7 |
11 | 5 | 3 | 3 | 7 | Dark knowledge (dread secret)
12 | 6 | 4 | 4 | 8 | Remove disease 3/week
13 | 6 | 4 | 4 | 8 | Lore mastery
14 | 7 | 4 | 4 | 9 |
15 | 7 | 5 | 5 | 9 | Remove disease 4/week
16 | 8 | 5 | 5 | 10 |
17 | 8 | 5 | 5 | 10 | Lore mastery
18 | 9 | 6 | 6 | 11 | Remove disease 5/week
19 | 9 | 6 | 6 | 11 |
20 | 10 | 6 | 6 | 12 |

Armor and weapon proficiency: Pilgrims are proficient in light armor, all shields (except tower shields), and all simple weapons.

Detect evil: Starting at first level a pilgrim may use detect evil, as the spell, at will.

Variable domain: Beginning at first level a pilgrim may select a single domain available to him from the pantheon he worships. Every time the pilgrim gains a level in pilgrim, he may choose to change his domain, but is still restricted to those listed for his chosen pantheon.

Lore Mastery: Upon reaching 2nd level, an archivist gains
a +2 bonus to all Decipher Script checks and to all checks
of any one Knowledge skill of his choice. Once this choice
is made, it cannot be changed. At 7th, 13th, and 17th level,
the archivist can choose an additional Knowledge skill on
which to gain the +2 bonus.

Lay on hands: Beginning at second level, a pilgrim with a charisma score of 12 or higher can heal wounds (his own or those of others) by touch. Each day he can heal a total number of hit points of damage equal to his pilgrim level X his charisma bonus. For exampl, a 7th-level pilgrim with a 16 charisma (+3 bonus) can heal 21 points of damage per day. A pilgrim may choose to divide his healing among multiple recipients, and he doesn't have to use it all at once. Using lay on hands is a standard action.
Alternatively, a pilgrim can use any or all of his healing power to deal damage to undead creatures. Using lay on hands in this way requires a successful melee touch attack and doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. The pilgrim decides how many of his daily allotment of points to use as damage after successfully touching an undead creature.

Remove disease: At 6th level, a pilgrim can produce a remove disease effect, as the spell, once per week. He can use this ability one additional time per week for every three levels after sixth.

Spellcasting: Beginning at fourth level, the pilgrim may cast spells from the illusion spell list. The pilgrim uses his charisma to determine bonus spells and whether or not he has access to a given spell level, and the pilgrim's spell-casting is spontaneous.

Spellcasting:

Level | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4|
1 | - | - | - | - |
2 | - | - | - | - |
3 | - | - | - | - |
4 | 0 | - | - | - |
5 | 0 | - | - | - |
6 | 1 | - | - | - |
7 | 1 | - | - | - |
8 | 1 | 0 | - | - |
9 | 1 | 0 | - | - |
10 | 1 | 1 | - | - |
11 | 1 | 1 | 0 | - |
12 | 1 | 1 | 1 | - |
13 | 1 | 1 | 1 | - |
14 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0 |
15 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 |
16 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 1 |
17 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1 |
18 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 1 |
19 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 |
20 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 |

Now it just feels really empty. We definitely need to throw something in there to make up for all those empty levels. Perhaps we could keep the dark knowledge with the variable domains?
I mean, considering the archivist won't be available, it's not like it'll be stepping on anyone's toes, and this class definitely has some holes in it.
What's everyone else think?

Othniel Edden

2011-02-10, 11:44 PM

what we could do is allow the Pilgrim to gain new domains, maybe every four levels and marked as bonus domain, rather than the ability to change domains at different levels. When most people prepare spells you'd choose which domain list you'd use. Unlike Clerics you'd be able to use only one at a time rather than to use them interchangeably per level. Dark mastery seems too much like favored enemy...

It should also be noted that when the Pilgrim gets a new domain level.(Level 1-1st, Level 3- 2nd.. Level 17 9th)

Additionally I think I'd increase their skill points to 8, rather than 4.

Samfool

2011-02-11, 12:30 PM

And they are profiecent in heavy armor instead of alchemy too, i only played oblivion.
and they still splited Charisma to two: personality and willpower, so charisma is still a blaster stat

Willpower is actually closer to Wisdom seeing as Wisdom is tied to your will save.

Sorcerer is an INT based class in the Elder Scrolls Universe.

All evidence that taking directly from the morrowind world is not a good idea

Othniel Edden

2011-02-11, 02:54 PM

You know the lore does not match DnD whatsoever right? In DnD sorcerers are different from wizards for magics sake. We'll end up renaming traditional classes in DnD if we want to stick close to the lore. In fact I'm of the opposite camp here. We're reinterpreting the Lore to fit DnD, yes, but we also need to make allowances the other way. Some classes need to be rewritten to fit the classes in Oblivion and Morrowind. Also, charisma as a spellcasting stat never made sense, except for illusions and enchantment, and without Divine magic we can shift charisma blasting to Wisdom(the stat tied to will).

for example;
Morrowind "Though spellcasters by vocation, sorcerers rely most on summonings and enchantments. They are greedy for magic scrolls, rings, armor and weapons, and commanding undead and Daedric servants gratifies their egos."

Oblivion "Besting the most well-equipped fighters, they rely on the spells of the mystic arts. Unique to these mages is the bodily stamina to be armed with the thickest armor."

This being a picture of the Sorcerer;
http://images.uesp.net//thumb/0/09/OB-class-Sorcerer.jpg/200px-OB-class-Sorcerer.jpg

Arena "Sorcerers are a strange breed of magic users. They are those born with the potential of casting spells, but with no power to generate spell points internally. This does not make them any less powerful; in fact, Sorcerers have the potential to be the most powerful of all the Mage classes. This is because of the unique way in which they manipulate magic. Sorcerers are in essence magical batteries. They absorb spell points from spells that are targeted at them. Sorcerers may absorb up to triple their Intelligence in spell points. If a spell is absorbed, the Sorcerer takes no damage, but instead adds the spell's total power points, divided by the Sorcerer's level, to his/her spell points. These points are permanent until used. If the Sorcerer fails to absorb a directed spell, they take the normal effects, whatever they may be. The chance a Sorcerer will absorb the spell is equal to the sum of his Intelligence and Willpower divided by two. Sorcerers do not regenerate spell points and they do not absorb points from their own spells. If a Sorcerer has absorbed spell points to his/her maximum, he/she will be unable to absorb more spells, and will take damage from spells just as any other character. Regardless of these restrictions, they have the ability to cast more powerful spells because when they are fully charged, they have more spell points than any other Mage class. They can therefore cast more powerful spells at lower levels, provided that the spell is in their spellbook."

Daggerfall " Sorcerers are quite adept at the manipulation of magic, although they do not generate their own magical energy. Rather, they absorb the energy of spells cast at them, and use this energy to power their own spells."

Necro_EX

2011-02-11, 03:18 PM

I never realized just how much the sorcerer has changed from game to game. D:

Arena and Daggerfall ones sound like battlemages born under the sign of the atronach.

Which reminds me, has anyone done the signs, yet?

super dark33

2011-02-11, 03:26 PM

I did a few some pages back.
the lady,the warrior,the thief and all the outer stat boosting birthsigns are easier to make

Othniel Edden

2011-02-11, 03:29 PM

Classes were different in earlier games for the most part, so I've only been looking at them when Oblivion and Morrowind disagree.

thinking about it more and more, the Bretons have a high resistance to spells. That means good saves. I'm amending that statline to +2 Wis, -2 Dex. Altmer are good spellcasters but frail, so just having +2 Int -2 Con looks pretty good for them. As I said without divine magic wisdom bonuses aren't as scary.

Othniel Edden

2011-02-13, 04:38 AM

So we need classes, races, birth signs, spell lists, and what else to start a game?

Should I go through and make a comprehensive list of our options here?

Necro_EX

2011-02-13, 03:07 PM

Well, we'll definitely need some ES monsters. NPCs'll probably make up a lot of it, but we need ES-themed trolls, minotaurs, area-specific creatures like the nix hound and the kwama, and some daedra.

Othniel Edden

2011-02-13, 03:21 PM

Okay, which monsters do we keep and which monsters need a rewrite that are already provided by wizards/in the srd?

Necro_EX

2011-02-13, 03:55 PM

Well, let's see...

Goblins are standard in Oblivion, but the MW variants are pretty damned beastly.

Harpies are more or less the same.

All the animals can stay the same.

Trolls need to be rewritten, or at least refluffed.

Minotaurs...are all Greathorns, apparently.

All the daedra are going to have to be made from scratch, it seems.

Nix hounds and all the other nix creatures will likely have to be made from scratch.

Cliff racers.

Mudcrabs are basically just dire crabs, right?

Slaughterfish?

Dreughs...I think that may have to be written from scratch.

Kwama will have to be made from scratch. Should be pretty interesting, too.

Netches, I don't think there's anything they could be refluffed from.

Silt Striders. :D

I'm not really sure what all else we'll have to do.

Othniel Edden

2011-02-13, 04:33 PM

Spriggans, I'm not sure where to find. We need to make sure they summon bears.

Imps are completely different.

Gnarls, Bailwogs, Elytra, Scalons, and shambles all probably need written entries.

Durzog's probably have worg or dire wolf type stats.

Grahl, Horkers, Rieklings, and other bloodmoon goodies.

Giants seem completely different.

Lamia are different.

oblivion6

2011-02-13, 04:36 PM

im not an expert on 3.5 monsters but i might be able to help with this conversion.

Necro_EX

2011-02-13, 04:48 PM

The more the merrier, I say. :D

We seem to have hit a bit of a lull in our productivity. :/

I've had a lot going on around my house lately, so I haven't been able to do as much as I would like...I still haven't done House Redoran, or written any of those prcs. :/

tiny tim

2011-02-13, 04:56 PM

Could someone give me a list of things that need to get done so I can know where to start?

Also, for things like an archer class you might want to look at some of the pathfinder variants. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter

Necro_EX

2011-02-13, 05:20 PM

I had been thinking about the archer variant of the PF fighter, but at the time I wasn't really sure where our balance was going to lie. Right now it looks somewhere between 3.5 standard and PF, without really sitting well in either balance, which is actually kinda nice I think.

As for things to do, there's all these monsters that need redone, and we have a fairly up-to-date list of classes on page...4, I think.

Speaking of which...Samfool, mind editing the first post to include all our up-to-date material? That way we can keep track of everything with a little more accuracy.

tiny tim

2011-02-13, 05:36 PM

Are we doing morrowind and oblivion stuff? And I think that the cliff racer could be a lower powered version of the arrowhawk without the electric ray and stuff.

Necro_EX

2011-02-13, 06:08 PM

We've mostly been pulling from Morrowind and Oblivion,considering they're the most recent and the lore really starts to become seamless at that point. For example in Daggerfall you could have your magicka effected by whether you were in light or shadow, but that's unavailable in either of the new ones, and presumably in Skyrim, so it really seems best to pull from those two sources mostly.

Also, you're definitely right on the cliff racer, I think. :D

Othniel Edden

2011-02-13, 06:11 PM

We're pulling what we can from older games, but the newer receive more priorities.

tiny tim

2011-02-13, 07:01 PM

Scrib:

Scrib

Size/Type: Tiny Animal
Hit Dice: ½ d8 (2 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 14 (+2 size, +2 Dex), touch 14, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/-12
Attack: bite +4 melee (1d4-3+poison)
Full Attack: bite +4 melee (1d4-3+poison)
Space/Reach: 2½ ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: Poison
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, darkvision 60ft.
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +4, Will +1
Abilities: Str 4, Dex 15, Con 10, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 7
Feats: Weapon finesse
CR: 1/2

Poison: Fort. Save DC 11 primary damage: Paralysed for 1 round. Secondary damage: None. Save DC is Constitution based.

How do you like it?

Necro_EX

2011-02-14, 03:12 AM

Looks good to me. The only thing I could see is maybe that the speed might be a little high, but I'm not too familiar with writing up monsters, so that might be normal considering it has multiple legs and all.

I don't think I've posted them, so here's the few that I wrote up, which probably aren't very good. :/

Winged Twilight
Before you stands the image of a beautiful Dunmer woman with crimson hair and great leathery wings. Her features are ravishing and her claws appear deadly and coated with blood.

The winged twilight is a messenger of Azura, Goddess of Dusk and Dawn. Winged twilights resemble the feral harpies of the West, though the feminine aspects of the winged twilights are more ravishing, and their long, sharp, hooked tails are immeasurably more deadly.

Winged Twilight
Medium Outsider (Daedra) (Azura)
HD: 9d8+37 (74 hp)
Initiative: +5
Speed: 30 ft. , fly 60 ft. (Good)
Armor Class: 24 (+5 Dex, +9 natural) Touch 15,Flat-footed 19
Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+13
Attack: Claw +13 melee (1d6+4)
Full Attack: 2 claws +13/+8 melee (1d6+4)
Space/Reach: 5ft/5ft
Special Attacks: --
Special Qualities: DR 5/Good, Resist shock, fire, and cold 15, +4 on saves vs. poison Spell reflection 20
Saves: Fort: +10 Ref: +12 Will: +10
Abilities: Str: 18 Dex: 20 Con: 18
Int: 14 Wis: 18 Cha: 22
Skills: Hide +18, Listen +16, Move Silently +18, Search +16, Sense Motive +18, Knowledge (Religion) + 20, Knowledge (Arcana) +12
Feats: Flyby attack, Dodge, Combat Reflexes
Environment: Oblivion (Azura)
Organization: Solitary, pair, flight (6-12) (Oblivion)
Challenge Rating: 7
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Always Lawful Evil
Advancement: Advancement (By class)
Level Adjustment: +6

Spider Daedra
In front of you stands a strange humanoid-spider hybrid. The flesh of the humanoid torso is fair and pale, while the carapace of the spider bottom is black and lustrous.

Spider Daedra are the servants of Mephala, taking the form of spider-humanoid centaurs, with a naked upper head, torso, and arms of human proportions, mounted on the eight legs and armored carapace of a giant spider. Unfortunately, these Daedra are so fierce and irrational that they cannot be trusted to heed the commands of the Spinner. As a consequence, few sorcerers are willing to either summon or bind such creatures in Morrowind.

Spider Daedra
[b]Large Outsider (Daedra) (Mephala)
HD: 10d8+50 (95hp)
Initiative: +7
Speed: 30 ft., climb 15 ft.
Armor Class: 22 (-1 size, +3 Dex, +10 natural)
Base Attack/Grapple: +10/+14
Attack: Bite +15 melee (1d4+4 plus poison)
Full Attack: Bite + 15 melee (1d4+4 plus poison), 2 claws +10/+5 melee (1d4+5)
Space/Reach: 10ft/5ft
Special Attacks: Web, summon spiderlings
Special Qualities: DR 5/+1, immune to poison
Saves: Fort: +8 Ref: +6 Will: +4
Abilities: Str: 18 Dex: 16 Con: 20
Int: 10 Wis: 6 Cha: 16
Skills: Climb + 16, Listen +8, Spot +10
Feats: Alertness, Improved Initiative, Weapon Focus (Bite)
Environment: Oblivion (Mephala)
Organization: Solitary, Brood (1 adult and 10-20 spider lings)
Challenge Rating: 8
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Always Chaotic Evil
Advancement: 11-15 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: --

Special attacks:

Web(EX): As the spell, usable 3/day
Summon Spider lings (SU): As a standard action, a Spider Daedra can summon a small swarm of Spiderlings within 30 feet of itself. This spell-like ability summons 1d6+2 Spiderlings.

Hunger
This lithe and unnaturally gaunt creature has a pallid complexion and a look of pure rage in its eyes. All its features are elongated and stretched and it has several spines protruding through its flesh.

The hunger is a powerful and violent lesser Daedra associated with Boethiah, Father of Plots -- a sinuous, long-limbed, long-tailed creature with a beast-skulled head, noted for its paralyzing touch and its ability to disintegrate weapons and armor.

Hunger
Medium Outsider (Daedra) (Boethiah)
HD: 8d8+32 (68hp)
Initiative: +10
Speed: 30 ft.
Armor Class: 24 (+6 Dex, +8 natural), Touch 16, Flat-footed 18
Base Attack/Grapple: +8/+13
Attack: Bite +13 melee (1d8+5)
Full Attack: Bite +13 melee (1d8+5), and 2 claws +8/+3 melee (1d6+5)
Space/Reach: 5ft/5ft
Special Attacks: Hunger’s vomit
Special Qualities: DR 20/+1, immune to fire, cold, and electric
Saves: Fort: + Ref: + Will: +
Abilities: Str: 20 Dex: 22 Con: 16
Int: 2 Wis: 8 Cha: 4
Skills: Climb + 16, Listen +8, Spot +10
Feats: Improved Initiative, ImprovedToughness
Environment: Oblivion (Boethiah)
Organization: Solitary, pair
Challenge Rating: 8
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Always Chaotic Evil
Advancement: Advancement 9-11 HD (Medium), 12+HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: --

Special attacks:

Hunger’s Vomit(EX): A Hunger can spray acid in a 30-foot line, dealing 6d8 points of damage to everything within the area. Once a hunger uses this ability it can’t use it again until 1d4 rounds later. This acid spray also deals damage to all equipment hit. A DC 18 Reflex save halves the damage and negates any damage to equipment. Weapons damaged this way crumble apart and become useless immediately, and armor effected this way is initially damaged and loses 2 from its armor bonus and a second hit will disintegrate the armor entirely.

Dremora
A black-skinned humanoid stands before you. His features are gaunt and strong, and his body is marked with red patterning. He wears a suit of dark full plate with jagged edges, many spikes, and the appearance of tormented faces as the general motif. This armor bears the same markings as his flesh. Looking into his eyes you can see the very fires of Oblivion.

Dremora are many and they are legion in their service to Mehrunes Dagon, god of wrath. Socially they venerate honor and glory in battle and have a strong sense of loyalty. They are the soldiers that make up the armies of Oblivion and are powerful foes even when encountered singly.

Dremora (1st-level fighter)
Medium Outsider (Daedra) (Mehrunes Dagon)
HD: 1d10+2d8+18 (33hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 30 ft.,
Armor Class: 24 (+1 Dex, +4 Natural, +9 Daedric Full Plate), Touch 13, Flat-footed 23
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+5
Attack: Daedric longsword +6 melee (1d8+4)
Full Attack: Daedric longsword +6 melee (1d8+4)
Space/Reach: 5ft/5ft
Special Attacks: --
Special Qualities: DR 10/+1, Darkvision 120 ft., SR 20
Saves: Fort: +7 Ref: +3 Will: +0
Abilities: Str: 18 Dex: 16 Con: 20
Int: 12 Wis: 12 Cha: 8
Skills: Intimidate +3, Bluff +3, Climb +8
Feats: Toughness, Power attack
Environment: Oblivion (Mehrunes Dagon)
Organization: Solitary, pair, trio, Squadron ( 1 leader and 4 followers)
Challenge Rating: 4
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Always Evil
Advancement: By class
Level Adjustment: +3

Dremora Leader(4th level fighter, 8th level marshal)
Medium Outsider (Daedra) (Mehrunes Dagon)
HD: 4d10+10d8+70 (128hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 30 ft.,
Armor Class: 29 (+1 Dex, +9 armor, +5 shield +4 Natural)
Base Attack/Grapple: +10/+14
Attack: Daedric longsword +14 melee (1d8+4)
Full Attack: Daedric longsword +14/+9 melee (1d8+4)
Space/Reach: 5ft/5ft
Special Attacks: --
Special Qualities: DR 10/+1, Darkvision 120 ft., SR 20
Saves: Fort: +15 Ref: +4 Will: +8
Abilities: Str: 18 Dex: 14 Con: 20
Int: 12 Wis: 12 Cha: 12
Skills:
Feats: Leadership, Weapon focus, Weapon Specialization, power attack, skill focus (diplomacy) (free), Combat Reflexes, Hold the Line, Phalanx fighting, Improved shield bash, shield charge
Environment: Oblivion (Mehrunes Dagon)
Organization: Solitary, with followers
Challenge Rating: 15
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Lawful Evil
Advancement: --
Level Adjustment: +3

Dremora Champion (12th-level fighter)
Medium Outsider (Daedra) (Mehrunes Dagon)
HD: 12d10+2d8+98 (173hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 30 ft.,
Armor Class: 24(+1Dex, +9Armor, +4Natural), Touch 11, Flat-footed 23
Base Attack/Grapple: +12/+18
Attack: Daedric greatsword +20 melee (2d6+13) (17-20X2)
Full Attack: Daedric greatsword +20/+15/+10melee (2d6+13) (17-20X2)
Space/Reach: 5ft/5ft
Special Attacks: --
Special Qualities: DR 10/+1, Darkvision 120 ft., SR 20
Saves: Fort: +14 Ref: +5 Will: +3
Abilities: Str: 22 Dex: 16 Con: 22
Int: 13 Wis: 8 Cha: 6
Skills:
Feats: Power attack, cleave, great cleave, weapon focus, weapon specialization, greater weapon focus, greater weapon specialization, combat reflexes, dodge, mobility, spring attack, Improved critical, improved toughness
Environment: Oblivion (Mehrunes Dagon)
Organization: Solitary, as an irregular
Challenge Rating: 15
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Usually Chaotic Evil
Advancement: By class
Level Adjustment: +3

Dremora Characters

Traits:
+2d8HD (All Dremora have tough bodies and are never encountered with fewer than 3 HD)
+4 Strength
+4 Constitution
-2 Charisma
+4 Natural Armor
Medium size.
A Dremora’s base land speed is 30 ft.
Darkvision 120 feet.
DR 10/+1
SR 20
Automatic Languages: Daedric
Favored Class: Fighter
Level Adjustment +3

The Dremora legions have many leaders and a complex caste-system with innumerable weaker (~5HD) Dremora and the strongest in the lofty heights of epic levels.