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View Full Version : I bought some Essential books...



Chambers
2011-01-21, 04:47 PM
I finally bought my first 4th edition books: Rules Compendium and Heroes of the Fallen Lands. Now I should just need to pick up the Monster Vault box and be able to run a full game, right?

I've read some reviews of the Dungeon Master's Kit Box Set that says it has additional information in the book that isn't in the Rules Compendium book. Is this additional information necessary to run the game? I'll be the DM for the game.

Also, I was a little surprised that the...builds? themes? for each class were mandatory in the Heroes of the Fallen Lands book. For example, it seems like you can't just play a Fighter. You have to be a Fighter/Knight or Fighter/Slayer. Why not just Fighter? Or perhaps I'm reading it wrong. Just got the books a few days ago, haven't had time to really sit down and read through them.

Is there somewhere that I can find additional progressions for the character classes, like a generic Fighter progression or a different Cleric or Rogue progression?

Another thing: I was not impressed with the number of feats in Heroes of the Fallen Lands. Unless I missed them I didn't see any Paragon or Epic specific feats.

Final note: I don't plan on ever using the D&D Insider. I already have a monthly WoW subscription and that at least let's me stab things and take their loot.

Mando Knight
2011-01-21, 05:03 PM
For most of your alternate-build stuff, you'll need to use older books: the generic Fighter and Rogue are detailed in the PHB and have additional options in the two Martial Power volumes, and the Cleric and Wizard are also in the PHB, but have their additional builds in Divine and Arcane Power, respectively.

You can avoid DDI, but really there's no reason to do so short-term: it gives you access to everything published for 4e. EVERYTHING. Well, except for the flavor text in some of the books, but that's a different matter that the DM is expected to make up for his own games anyway. It's all the feats, powers, classes, races, and more from the past (nearly) 3 years of books and Dungeon & Dragon magazine, compiled into the Compendium and Character Builder for easy access. And for less than buying the books.

Chambers
2011-01-21, 05:08 PM
Yeah, but I bought the books. I don't want to buy a subscription. I thought the whole point of the Essentials line was "here's what you need to play" not "here's what you need to play plus all the old books or a subscription."

:smallconfused:

Mando Knight
2011-01-21, 05:14 PM
Yeah, but I bought the books. I don't want to buy a subscription. I thought the whole point of the Essentials line was "here's what you need to play" not "here's what you need to play plus all the old books or a subscription."

:smallconfused:

Essentials is everything you need to get started playing, much like the d20 SRD has almost everything you need to start playing a 3.X-based game. The rest can be treated more like 3.5's Complete Champion or Tome of Battle: good books to have, but not necessary to play.

KillianHawkeye
2011-01-21, 06:47 PM
Another thing: I was not impressed with the number of feats in Heroes of the Fallen Lands. Unless I missed them I didn't see any Paragon or Epic specific feats.

I heard that Essentials no longer seperates feats according to character tier. You can take any feat which you qualify for now.

MeeposFire
2011-01-21, 07:21 PM
Does the rule compendium have the rules in it to make encounters and hand out treasure? Those are the only rules that really are needed thaqt could be missing (perhaps traps/skill challenges).

I so far have heard nothing from anybody that had only the RC with no DMG or Dungeon masters kit so unfortunately I do not know.

Kurald Galain
2011-01-21, 07:24 PM
I finally bought my first 4th edition books: Rules Compendium and Heroes of the Fallen Lands. Now I should just need to pick up the Monster Vault box and be able to run a full game, right?
Probably. But you probably want a greater choice of feats, classes, builds, and items. I'd recommend picking up the Player's Handbook, which has all of that.


I've read some reviews of the Dungeon Master's Kit Box Set that says it has additional information in the book that isn't in the Rules Compendium book. Is this additional information necessary to run the game?
Not particularly.



Also, I was a little surprised that the...builds? themes? for each class were mandatory in the Heroes of the Fallen Lands book.
That's standard for 4E. With other books, you can also e.g. be a Fighter/Tempest or a Fighter/Battlerager. There's no plain fighter.

Attilargh
2011-01-21, 07:55 PM
I heard that Essentials no longer seperates feats according to character tier. You can take any feat which you qualify for now.
I think that's because the Heroes of N books only contain heroic-tier feats, which don't have the level prequisite by definition.

KillianHawkeye
2011-01-21, 08:27 PM
I'm pretty sure I heard that feats were now tier-less, but I could be wrong about that. I stopped buying into 4E when I got Dark Sun and Psionic Power.

Kurald Galain
2011-01-22, 05:01 AM
I'm pretty sure I heard that feats were now tier-less, but I could be wrong about that. I stopped buying into 4E when I got Dark Sun and Psionic Power.

It's both, actually. Yes, all future feats are intended to be tier-less, but since that decision has been made, only very few feats have been printed, and none of those are on the power level of the older paragon feats and epic feats (well, except Expertise and its defensive equivalent).

MeeposFire
2011-01-22, 03:52 PM
They are trying to move away from the feats being tiered and instead have them get better as you level. The boosts may even happen at tiers (such as the new expertise feats, the old ones used to boost at higher levels than tiers to correspond directly with the math). It is a good idea though they should try to do more with it (and fix the ones they missed like improved initiative).