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Lord.Sorasen
2011-01-21, 11:52 PM
The blackguard presents an excellent option for a paladin who has turned his back on good. But recently I realized that there seems to be no such equivalent for a paladin who has simply gone non-lawful or neutral.

In my current campaign, a group of NPC paladins have been banished from the city they have served, accused of a crime they did not commit (not specific paladins but all paladins of this city.) Taking up a nomadic lifestyle, they encountered a large group of Gruumsh worshiping Orc nomads (in my setting, the orcs believe Gruumsh to be of chaotic neutral alignment, even bordering on good. The other races think of Gruumsh as evil still, however). The paladins attempted to fight these nomads and lost, but made a good impression on the leader. So much that they were given the offer to join the troupe. Quite a few accepted.

Naturally, this should mean that the paladins lose their paladin-hood. But I can't find any real replacement classes. Paladin of freedom would work if it wasn't a base class, and I don't really care for the idea of just changing their class into this. Greyguard sort of works, but I feel like the fluff is gone. Is there anything else?

Mando Knight
2011-01-22, 12:12 AM
Did they necessarily fall? It is possible that they accepted it as a consequence of being defeated in honorable combat, especially if the orcs aren't Evil. They could be living with the orcs to try to bring them to the light, as they are by nature a fairly powerfully martial race and could be useful as allies if converted.

Lord.Sorasen
2011-01-22, 12:17 AM
Just having them not fall somehow hadn't occured to me. Actually that would probably work a lot better.

Ionizer
2011-01-22, 12:28 AM
Holy Liberator (CDiv Pg 45) is essentially a prestige class version of the Paladin of Freedom (a little different, instead of Lay on Hands and Remove Disease they get Remove Fatigue and Break Enchantment). Fallen Paladins who take HL levels don't regain their Pally stuff, but their Pally levels stack to determine the Caster Level of Liberator spells and the Liberator's Smite Evil.

I've always wondered what would happen if a Pally of Freedom tried to take Holy Liberator levels, though... I guess they just keep their Pally Spellcasting and have super-charged HL Casting and stacking Smite Evil.

Jamini
2011-01-22, 12:38 AM
I seem to recall a pre 3.5 splatbook that had a prestige class for chaos-fallen paladins. However I'm drawing a blank to the name at the moment. :smallannoyed:

true_shinken
2011-01-22, 12:41 AM
I seem to recall a pre 3.5 splatbook that had a prestige class for chaos-fallen paladins. However I'm drawing a blank to the name at the moment. :smallannoyed:
Holy Liberator, from Defenders of the Faith, republished in Complete Divine

Jamini
2011-01-22, 12:44 AM
Holy Liberator, from Defenders of the Faith, republished in Complete Divine

No, that was not it. Holy Liberator fits the bill anyway, but that is not what I'm thinking of.

Callista
2011-01-22, 01:16 AM
Gruumsh might actually be evil, but if the orcs worshiping him are peaceful themselves and non-evil in general, I don't see what the problem is. In fact, I don't see why allying with these orcs and trying to create peace wouldn't be a totally logical course of action--just because humans and orcs have historically fought each other doesn't mean there aren't other options that result in fewer deaths. It's not like they're demons or anything. They're mortals--redeemable mortals. There are quite a few paladins that'd jump at the chance to teach an orc a better way than slaughter, and probably quite a few orcs who would be glad for the chance to either live in peace or at least die in a battle that means more than "I'm an orc, you're not; let's kill each other."