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true_shinken
2011-01-22, 12:51 PM
OK. I need a tarrasque simulacrum (well, a lot of them). I already have circle casting to get the required caster level.
How can I get simulacrum scrolls or spell-like abilities when no mortal in the material plane knows the spell and no one in the other planes will give it to me due to a centuries' old pact?
I'm thinking I could magically coherce a mirror mephit to do it, but he can't benefit from circle casting.

Also, I'm the DM, I just want this to be by-the-rules.

Coidzor
2011-01-22, 12:53 PM
Use someone from the outer planes who wants to have pet tarrasques?

Czin
2011-01-22, 12:55 PM
OK. I need a tarrasque simulacrum (well, a lot of them). I already have circle casting to get the required caster level.
How can I get simulacrum scrolls or spell-like abilities when no mortal in the material plane knows the spell and no one in the other planes will give it to me due to a centuries' old pact?
I'm thinking I could magically coherce a mirror mephit to do it, but he can't benefit from circle casting.

Also, I'm the DM, I just want this to be by-the-rules.
Ask an entity from the Far Realm for assistance, they're beyond any sort of pact (or logic.) Just make sure that it ends in gribbly, tentacled, slimy, million eyed Eldritch abomination induced death for the mortal who asked them for assistance.

2xMachina
2011-01-22, 12:56 PM
Find an efreet, use wish for scroll of Simulcrum?

Jack_Simth
2011-01-22, 12:57 PM
OK. I need a tarrasque simulacrum (well, a lot of them). I already have circle casting to get the required caster level.
How can I get simulacrum scrolls or spell-like abilities when no mortal in the material plane knows the spell and no one in the other planes will give it to me due to a centuries' old pact?
I'm thinking I could magically coherce a mirror mephit to do it, but he can't benefit from circle casting.

Also, I'm the DM, I just want this to be by-the-rules.
Locate a *Chaotic* outsider with Wish as an SLA (Such as a Noble Dijinni or a glabrezu) and get a scroll of the required caster level that way. They won't be overly inclined to follow pacts.

true_shinken
2011-01-22, 01:02 PM
Locate a *Chaotic* outsider with Wish as an SLA (Such as a Noble Dijinni or a glabrezu) and get a scroll of the required caster level that way. They won't be overly inclined to follow pacts.
Wouldn't work. The gods made the pact and they enforce it with a heavy hand. This will certainly be something the villain tried, though.


Find an efreet, use wish for scroll of Simulcrum?
To avoid 'wish milking', in my setting I decided genies take revenge on people who bind them for this. Also, it could spark the god's retribution. He could have befriended a genie, though. But if I go this way, it'd be better if he befriended a mirror mephit with class levels...

Coidzor
2011-01-22, 01:04 PM
Wouldn't work. The gods made the pact and they enforce it with a heavy hand. This will certainly be something the villain tried, though.

Have the gods do it then, they're certainly usually evil enough to do that sort of thing on a whim.

Czin
2011-01-22, 01:06 PM
Wouldn't work. The gods made the pact and they enforce it with a heavy hand. This will certainly be something the villain tried, though.

Again, ask the far realm; even the gods dare not go there, but it probably should end with the asker becoming more than a little loopy, then after a while, he should become very much dead.

true_shinken
2011-01-22, 01:06 PM
Have the gods do it then, they're certainly usually evil enough to do that sort of thing on a whim.
No they aren't, not in this setting. Except for Tharizdun (who can only act in minor ways), they want the world to exist. The goal of this character is to destroy all their worshippers.

2xMachina
2011-01-22, 01:09 PM
Sorcerer Sanctum spell? (Probably no from DM)

Or indirect way. Leadership/Thrallherd your own worshippers, become a God.

Kuma Kode
2011-01-22, 01:10 PM
I second Far Realm. If this pact is so severe that not even the embodiments of chaos and disorder will break it, you've written yourself into a bit of a corner. Far Realm entities would be uncontrollable by the gods, and some of them are just as powerful, so they do offer a way to go over the gods' heads.

Otherwise, if this pact is centuries old, perhaps the villain would go on a quest to find a scroll written prior to the pact? Or perhaps steal it from someone who has it? I would assume that outsiders who have spells didn't stop writing them down and all become sorcerers and burn every scroll they own when the gods made that pact, did they?

Claudius Maximus
2011-01-22, 01:13 PM
Maybe he's friends with a rogue outsider who hates the gods' pact, and is willing to risk their wrath in an attempt to bring them down? Maybe some kind of deep ancient fiend like an obyrith that the gods have trouble detecting.

Waker
2011-01-22, 01:16 PM
Do you specifically need the spell simulacrum or could you go with something else? I mean, if your goal is to make an army of Tarrasque you could say the enemy has a Mirror of Opposition. Nothing in the spells description says the duplicate is any smarter or has any way of knowing where the original is, nor is distance a factor. You could conceivably make a duplicate, teleport it somewhere and then have a handler goad it along with illusions or something.

Coidzor
2011-01-22, 01:18 PM
Maybe he's friends with a rogue outsider who hates the gods' pact, and is willing to risk their wrath in an attempt to bring them down? Maybe some kind of deep ancient fiend like an obyrith that the gods have trouble detecting.

Or, heck, maybe Asmodeus is pulling some strings to cause some chaos to distract from something actually important to him that he doesn't want adventurers sticking their noses into, so an army of simulacrum tarrasques is pretty much the perfect show to have put on for him. And if he can have it so that some other party gets implicated in the plot that advances his cause... So much the better.


Again, ask the far realm; even the gods dare not go there, but it probably should end with the asker becoming more than a little loopy, then after a while, he should become very much dead.

Or at least very much no longer what he was. Much more interesting to have the final boss end up being some kinda squiddly (though I admit, cliche as all get out) than to find him dead when he's finally caught up to.


Really though, this is the sort of thing plot-powered rituals are made for.

true_shinken
2011-01-22, 01:23 PM
Or, heck, maybe Asmodeus is pulling some strings to cause some chaos to distract from something actually important to him that he doesn't want adventurers sticking their noses into, so an army of simulacrum tarrasques is pretty much the perfect show to have put on for him. And if he can have it so that some other party gets implicated in the plot that advances his cause... So much the better.
I like this. I'll actually use Lolth (yes, she is a god, but she is also a demon). I had already decided the drow would escape (they are trapped by the dwarves, like in Dragon Age) but not how.
This fits perfectly. Lolth sent him a servant - a mirror mephit with class levels. Thanks, guys.

Czin
2011-01-22, 01:24 PM
Or at least very much no longer what he was. Much more interesting to have the final boss end up being some kinda squiddly (though I admit, cliche as all get out) than to find him dead when he's finally caught up to.


Really though, this is the sort of thing plot-powered rituals are made for.

Maybe he could pull a Rasputin (I mean the hellboy version) and after the PCs defeat him in his mortal form, a gribbly eldritch abomination erupts from his body. I'd personally recommend a refluffed Golothoma or if you're really daring, a refluffed Aspect of Sertrous.

Coidzor
2011-01-22, 01:37 PM
I like this. I'll actually use Lolth (yes, she is a god, but she is also a demon). I had already decided the drow would escape (they are trapped by the dwarves, like in Dragon Age) but not how.
This fits perfectly. Lolth sent him a servant - a mirror mephit with class levels. Thanks, guys.

Yess.... Just as planned. (http://1d4chan.org/images/3/3c/Just_as_planned_tzeentch.jpg) :smallamused:


Maybe he could pull a Rasputin (I mean the hellboy version) and after the PCs defeat him in his mortal form, a gribbly eldritch abomination erupts from his body. I'd personally recommend a refluffed Golothoma or if you're really daring, a refluffed Aspect of Sertous.

Now that would be fun times. :smallbiggrin:

Darrin
2011-01-25, 06:50 AM
I'm thinking I could magically coherce a mirror mephit to do it, but he can't benefit from circle casting.

Would Spellthief + Mirror Mephit work? Summon Mirror Mephit is a 2nd level spell, then steal the SLA. From there... I forget what circle casting does, is that for increasing the caster level? (Mirror Mephit can only go up to 16 HD).

hewhosaysfish
2011-01-25, 07:53 AM
Maybe he's friends with a rogue outsider who hates the gods' pact, and is willing to risk their wrath in an attempt to bring them down? Maybe some kind of deep ancient fiend like an obyrith that the gods have trouble detecting.

You mean... an outsider insider?

Sorry.

true_shinken
2011-01-25, 03:12 PM
Would Spellthief + Mirror Mephit work? Summon Mirror Mephit is a 2nd level spell, then steal the SLA. From there... I forget what circle casting does, is that for increasing the caster level? (Mirror Mephit can only go up to 16 HD).

Ooooh I can't believe I didn't think of this. Spellthief is one of my favourite classes. Yes, that's awesome, thanks.

Aemoh87
2011-01-25, 03:15 PM
Isn't there a Simulacrum elixir in Frostburn?