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Demidos
2011-01-22, 03:28 PM
Hi all,
I was wondering if i could get any swordsage advice for an archer build. So far i have a gesaltic ninja1/warlock2//warrior 3 (its a variant on the balanced gesalt system). Im thinking of going worrior all the way for Bab and Fort saves, but pretty much what im asking are what manuevers/stances are usable by swordsages that would assist my archery (this would be all the way (as long as were playing) on the ninja/warlock side)?

I have feats ready and stuff and i like the character concept, i just need a list of manuevers or discliplines or stances that would be usable as im not very familiar with the class

Thanks:smallbiggrin:

Eldariel
2011-01-22, 04:05 PM
Hi all,
I was wondering if i could get any swordsage advice for an archer build. So far i have a gesaltic ninja1/warlock2//warrior 3 (its a variant on the balanced gesalt system). Im thinking of going worrior all the way for Bab and Fort saves, but pretty much what im asking are what manuevers/stances are usable by swordsages that would assist my archery (this would be all the way (as long as were playing) on the ninja/warlock side)?

I have feats ready and stuff and i like the character concept, i just need a list of manuevers or discliplines or stances that would be usable as im not very familiar with the class

Thanks:smallbiggrin:

Mostly:
- Mobility, such as Sudden Leap, Quicksilver Motion and so on.
- Counters, such as Baffling Defense, Counter Charge and so on.
- Extra attacks, such as Dancing Mongoose, Raging Mongoose and Time Stands Still
- Defensive stuff like Roots of the Mountain-stance.

And White Raven-maneuvers, but you don't have access to them as a SS. So yeah, Tiger Claw and Diamond Mind as the best offensively (Time Stands Still is obviously ridiculous for an archer), while Setting Sun & Diamond Mind give you decent defensive options and utility, along with some Tiger Claw stuff. And Shadow Hand has the obvious utility like teleportation, incorporealness, etc.

Demidos
2011-01-22, 05:58 PM
Cool. Thanks:smallbiggrin:
Some more info on my build

Im going to use the warlock levels to be able to summon magical darkness and then see through it, and im a whisper gnome, to maximise stealth, so i shouldnt be hit too much (i hope).

Any more suggestions?

Combat Reflexes
2011-01-22, 06:05 PM
Well, if you get your DM to allow it, there's the Mystical Rain discipline from the (slightly über overpowered) D&D wiki. It's a discipline for longbows and crossbows and such:
http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Mystical_Rain_(3.5e_Martial_Discipline)

CR

Reynard
2011-01-22, 06:08 PM
Well, if you get your DM to allow it, there's the Mystical Rain discipline from the (slightly über overpowered) D&D wiki. It's a discipline for longbows and crossbows and such:
http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Mystical_Rain_(3.5e_Martial_Discipline)

CR

There is nothing at all at the end of that link.

I know that The Demented One has done some homebrew ranged disciplines, try looking those up. One (Black Rain) is fluffed as guns-only, but there's no reason you can't use most of the maneuvers with any other ranged weapon.

Demidos
2011-01-23, 01:24 AM
Thanks for the responses, but non-homebrewed would be nice. And i dont want to break the campaign, just be decently strong

begooler
2011-01-23, 02:54 AM
This may be too far from your character concept but would you consider scout levels?
Because with Sudden Leap (Lvl 1 Tiger Claw, you jump as a swift action) you can make a jump check to move 10ft and then make a full round attack with your skirmish damage on each attack.

Demidos
2011-02-01, 11:44 PM
Hmmm, interesting....ill consider that:smallamused:

Dusk Eclipse
2011-02-01, 11:49 PM
There is also the shooting star discipline (by Radical Taoist IIRC) floating somewhere over at the Wizards boards, AFAIK it is decently balanced and quite fitting flavour-wise for a swordsage.

dextercorvia
2011-02-01, 11:51 PM
Am I the only one not seeing the Swordsage in this Swordsage Archer?

sonofzeal
2011-02-02, 12:00 AM
Im going to use the warlock levels to be able to summon magical darkness and then see through it, and im a whisper gnome, to maximise stealth, so i shouldnt be hit too much (i hope).
That's a trick that occurs to just about everyone first reading Warlock, but has rarely been pulled off effectively. Key is that the "darkness" spell is not a "blackness" spell; it doesn't create a sphere of inky black, it makes an area of shadowy illumination. You're still visible in it, you just have that 20% miss chance. Not as effective as you might think, and takes turns to set up.

dextercorvia
2011-02-02, 12:05 AM
That's a trick that occurs to just about everyone first reading Warlock, but has rarely been pulled off effectively. Key is that the "darkness" spell is not a "blackness" spell; it doesn't create a sphere of inky black, it makes an area of shadowy illumination. You're still visible in it, you just have that 20% miss chance. Not as effective as you might think, and takes turns to set up.

The spell Blacklight comes to mind. You don't even need Devil's Sight. Just UMD a wand of it.

sonofzeal
2011-02-02, 12:44 AM
The spell Blacklight comes to mind. You don't even need Devil's Sight. Just UMD a wand of it.
Yeah, but then you've removed both of the relevant invocations from the picture and it's no longer a Warlock "trick". Still a valid one though.

dextercorvia
2011-02-02, 12:57 AM
Two birds. One stone my friend.

Soon he will realize how little that single level of ninja is doing for his build.

JaronK
2011-02-02, 01:34 AM
Blood in the Water and Assassin's Stance are generally best for this (which one at a given time depends on a few factors, though you might also consider dipping Crusader for Martial Stance). Though in general, Warblade works better than Swordsage for archers, since White Raven has some very nice tricks to help out.

JaronK

dspeyer
2011-02-02, 01:59 AM
Swordsage doesn't provide much archery. They aren't even proficient with bows! And most offensive maneuvers specify melee attack.

Homebrew, however, includes the Falcon's Eye (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8103296#post8103296), Iron Rain (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8103297#post8103297) and Nightengale Feather (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8103306#post8103306) disciplines, and the Bowsage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10120582#post10120582) class.

mabriss lethe
2011-02-02, 03:03 AM
the darkness/warlock trick becomes a lot more useful if you invest in the instinctive darkness feat. You can suddenly use it as an immediate action.

Darrin
2011-02-02, 10:09 AM
Here's some excerpts from a "ranged ToB" project I was working on and haven't quite finished yet:

Maneuvers that can be used with Ranged Attacks


Desert Wind:
Blistering Flourish 1 (dazzles 30' burst)
Distracting Ember 1 (flank ally)
Flame's Blessing 1 [stance] (fire resistance)
Wind Stride 1 (+10' speed)
Fire Riposte 2 (counter)
Hatchling's Flame 2 (30' cone of fire)
Fan the Flames 3 (ranged touch attack)
Holocaust Cloak 3 [stance]
Zephyr Dance 3 (counter)
Firesnake 4
Dragon's Flame 5 (30' cone of fire)
Leaping Flame 5 (counter)
Ring of Fire 6 (area effect)
Rising Phoenix 8 [stance]
Wyrm's Flame 8 (30' cone of fire)
Inferno Blast 9 (60' burst)

Devoted Spirit:
Shield Block 2 (counter)
Defensive Rebuke 3 (boost, attack you or provoke AoO)
Aura of Chaos 6 [stance]
Aura of Perfect Order 6 [stance]
Shield Counter 7 (counter)

Diamond Mind:
Moment of Perfect Mind 1 (counter, Will save)
Stance of Clarity 1 [stance]
Action Before Thought 2 (counter, Ref save)
Mind Over Body 3 (counter, Fort save)
Pearl of Black Doubt 3 [stance]
Hearing the Air 5 [stance]
Moment of Alacrity 6 (boost, +20 init)
Quicksilver Motion 7 (boost)
Diamond Defense 8 (counter, any save)
Stance of Alacrity 8 [stance]
Time Stands Still 9

Iron Heart:
Absolute Steel 3 [stance] (+10' speed)
Iron Heart Surge 3
Iron Heart Focus 5 (counter)
Iron Heart Endurance 6 (boost)
Lightning Throw 8 (30' line)

Setting Sun:
Counter Charge 1 (counter)
Step of the Wind 1 [stance]
Baffling Defense 2 (counter)
Feigned Opening 3 (counter)
Giant Killing Style 3 [stance] (+2 attack, +4 damage vs larger foes)
Shifting Defense 5 [stance]
Scorpion Parry 6 (counter)
Ghostly Defense 8 [stance]

Shadow Hand:
Child of Shadow 1 [stance] (concealment)
Cloak of Deception 2 (invisibility)
Shadow Jaunt 2
Assassin's Stance 3 [stance]
Dance of the Spider 3 [stance]
Shadow Garrote 3 (ranged touch attack)
Shadow Stride 5
Step of the Dancing Moth 5 [stance]
Shadow Noose 6 (ranged touch attack)
Shadow Blink 7
Balance on the Sky 8 [stance] (air walk)
One With Shadow 8 (boost, incorporeal)

Stone Dragon:
Stonefoot Stance 1 [stance]
Roots of the Mountain 3 [stance] (+10 vs bull rush, DR 2/-)
Giant's Stance 5 [stance] (weapon one size larger)
Earthquake Strike 8 (20' burst)

Tiger Claw:
Blood in the Water 1 [stance]
Hunter's Sense 1 [stance]
Sudden Leap 1 (boost)
Fountain of Blood 4 (counter)
Dancing Mongoose 5 (boost)
Raging Mongoose 8 (boost)

White Raven:
Bolstering Voice 1 [stance]
Leading the Charge 1 [stance]
Lion's Roar 3 (boost)
Tactics of the Wolf 3 [stance]
White Raven Tactics 3
Press the Advantage 5 [stance]
Order Forged From Chaos 6 (move action)
Swarm Tactics 8 [stance]


Here's a sample maneuver progression for a ranged-based Swordsage 20:


Swordsage 1: Blistering Flourish, Distracting Ember, Wind Stride, Moment of Perfect Mind, Counter Charge, Hunter's Sense [stance], Sudden Leap
Swordsage 2: Flame's Blessing [stance], Mighty Throw
Swordsage 3: Cloak of Deception
Swordsage 4: Shadow Jaunt, Baffling Defense (replacing Mighty Throw)
Swordsage 5: Shadow Garrote, Giant Killing Style [stance]
Swordsage 6: Fan the Flames, Mind Over Body (replacing Blistering Flourish)
Swordsage 7: Fountain of Blood
Swordsage 8: Firesnake, Zephyr Dance (replacing Distracting Ember)
Swordsage 9: Dancing Mongoose, Shifting Defense [stance]
Swordsage 10: Dragon's Flame, Shadow Stride (replacing Shadow Jaunt)
Swordsage 11: Shadow Noose
Swordsage 12: Scorpion Parry, Moment of Alacrity (replacing Dragon's Flame)
Swordsage 13: Quicksilver Motion
Swordsage 14: Shadow Blink, Hearing the Air [stance], Ring of Fire (replacing Firesnake),
Swordsage 15: Raging Mongoose, Martial Stance: Stance of Alacrity
Swordsage 16: One With Shadow, Diamond Defense (replacing Ring of Fire)
Swordsage 17: Time Stands Still
Swordsage 18: Inferno Blast, Fool's Strike (replacing Wind Stride)
Swordsage 19: Mountain Tombstone Strike
Swordsage 20: Feral Death Blow, Balance on the Sky [stance], Tornado Throw (replacing Counter Charge)



Ranged builds tend to be pretty starved for feats. Some magic items that may help:

Precise Shot: Use a ranged weapon with the Precise property (+1 bonus, MIC p. 40).

Far Shot: Horizon Goggles (8000 GP, Complete Mage p. 133) or Helm of the Hunter (9000 GP, MIC p. 194) provides the Far Shot feat.

Splitting property: +3 bonus, Champions of Ruin p. 42.

Ranged Shield: +1 bonus, MIC p. 13. Shield gains the Throwing and Returning property.

Glove of Taarnahm the Vigilant: 10000 GP, PGtF p. 123. Any held melee weapon gains the Throwing and Returning property.


Weapons/Items that may be useful for ranged builds:

Bone Bow (Frostburn) - Mechanically this functions the same as a Composite Greatbow, but it accommodates any Strength bonus without having to pay for each +1. If you use a lot of spells/powers/effects that changes your Strength score (bull's strength, rage, enlarge person, expansion, etc.), then this could be well worth spending a feat on Exotic Weapon Proficiency. It also offers the option to treat it as a martial weapon, but treating it as a non-proficient exotic weapon is actually better: you still take a -4 penalty, but you're not limited to one attack as a full-round action.

Elvencraft Bow (Races of the Wild) - There are a variety of combination bow/melee weapons out there, but this is the simplest and cheapest. 300 GP and you can treat your bow as a club or quarterstaff even if you're still using it as a bow. If you're looking for something fancier, the MIC features three types of Swordbows (free action to switch), a Bowstaff (swift action to switch), and a Bladed Crossbow (no action to switch).

Footbow (Races of the Wild) - Pretty much identical to a non-exotic composite longbow. However, if you can fly and can draw it back with both hands, you can get 1.5 times your Strength bonus on damage. If you're a raptoran crusader, you'll want to pick up one of these, otherwise stick with a composite longbow.

Greatbow, Composite (Complete Warrior) - If you can spare the feat, spending an Exotic Weapon Proficiency here might be a good option for a Warblade (since they can switch their EWP to another weapon if they stumble across something better). The 1 point of damage increase over a regular composite longbow may not seem like it would be worth a feat, but for a ranged build, you need as much extra damage as you can get your hands on.

Hank's Energy Bow (Animated Series Handbook) - Yes, they actually printed stats for this. Yes, they are available online. Yes, this is one of the few ways you can get something similar to Power Attack on a ranged weapon (but unfortunately does not offer the same damage multipliers). On top of that, it's an extremely versatile weapon that does not require any ammo, does an impressive 2d6 force damage, can use regular arrows, and can accommodate any Strength bonus.

Pitspawned template (DMGII) - For 1000 GP, adds a +2 untyped bonus to confirm criticals.

Strongarm Bracers (6000 GP, MIC p. 139) - Increase your weapon damage up one size category without mucking around with Powerful Build or Monkey Grip.

Bracers of Lightning (11000 GP, MIC p. 206) - Adds the shock property to all your attacks, including ranged. Although somewhat expensive, in most cases it's probably cheaper to buy these bracers than trying to add another +1 property to an existing magic weapon. The biggest drawback is it takes a swift action to activate, and most ToB builds are going to need their swift actions for something else.

Crystal of Energy Assault, Lesser (3000 GP, MIC p. 64) - This little gem is another great way to add another 1d6 of energy damage to your ranged attacks without spending a lot of gold. I recommend the Acid Assault, since fire, cold, and sonic damage can be added with spells, and electricity can be added with Bracers of Lightning.

DarkEternal
2011-02-02, 10:13 AM
I strongly suggest a homebrew for a ranged ToB class, though of course, the DM should see if it is viable. I gave a Phoenix Eye discipline I found on these boards to our ranger, and fear I might have given him a bit too much. But yeah, ranged classes are very misrepresented in ToB.

Greenish
2011-02-02, 10:21 AM
But yeah, ranged classes are very misrepresented in ToB.They're not misrepresented, or even underrepresented, they're not represented at all. :smalltongue:

Darrin
2011-02-02, 10:35 AM
They're not misrepresented, or even underrepresented, they're not represented at all. :smalltongue:

The Bloodstorm Blade (and a half-dozen flying greatswords) would like a word with you...

Greenish
2011-02-02, 10:44 AM
The Bloodstorm Blade (and a half-dozen flying greatswords) would like a word with you...Okay, okay, archer classes are not represented, and ranged classes are underrepresented. :smalltongue:

DarkEternal
2011-02-02, 12:07 PM
They're not misrepresented, or even underrepresented, they're not represented at all. :smalltongue:

Bah, blame it on not being an english native speaker :p

Greenish
2011-02-02, 12:11 PM
Bah, blame it on not being an english native speaker :pTrue, I'm not, but I don't see why I'd have to blame myself because of it.



:smallwink:

Demidos
2011-02-02, 09:14 PM
That's a trick that occurs to just about everyone first reading Warlock, but has rarely been pulled off effectively. Key is that the "darkness" spell is not a "blackness" spell; it doesn't create a sphere of inky black, it makes an area of shadowy illumination. You're still visible in it, you just have that 20% miss chance. Not as effective as you might think, and takes turns to set up.

Wow, thanks for all the replies, lets see....
Yeah, i was going to try sniping (fingers crossed:smalleek:)
This build was suggested to me by my friend, who is a pretty good optomizer (aka i dont know much about warlock or swordsage, im just going with it)
However, according to him, you can get around the turns to set up part by casting it on an arrow/(several arrows) and dropping them on the ground when in a battle to create the zone of shadow....thats the plan, anyway

Demidos
2011-02-02, 09:17 PM
The spell Blacklight comes to mind. You don't even need Devil's Sight. Just UMD a wand of it.

hmm, id need more info about this. Where is this spell? And what is devil's sight?

(btw, i havent posted alot, but ive read several threads, and its....bad form to double post?... If so, I apologize, but it helps me to be able to see the thing im answering when im replying....i dont want to derail this thread, now that people have really started answering, but how do you post several quotes in one response?)

Demidos
2011-02-02, 09:18 PM
Two birds. One stone my friend.

Soon he will realize how little that single level of ninja is doing for his build.

But....Wis to AC...and i was going to take Zen Archery....:smallfrown:

Demidos
2011-02-02, 09:28 PM
Swordsage doesn't provide much archery. They aren't even proficient with bows! And most offensive maneuvers specify melee attack.

Homebrew, however, includes the Falcon's Eye (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8103296#post8103296), Iron Rain (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8103297#post8103297) and Nightengale Feather (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8103306#post8103306) disciplines, and the Bowsage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10120582#post10120582) class.
OOOOOhhhhh. These look fun:smallsmile:Lets see if i can get them approved by my DM!!!!:smallbiggrin:

Demidos
2011-02-02, 09:29 PM
the darkness/warlock trick becomes a lot more useful if you invest in the instinctive darkness feat. You can suddenly use it as an immediate action.

im pretty sure thats on my "to get" list:smalltongue:

Demidos
2011-02-02, 09:32 PM
Here's some excerpts from a "ranged ToB" project I was working on and haven't quite finished yet:

Maneuvers that can be used with Ranged Attacks


Desert Wind:
Blistering Flourish 1 (dazzles 30' burst)
Distracting Ember 1 (flank ally)
Flame's Blessing 1 [stance] (fire resistance)
Wind Stride 1 (+10' speed)
Fire Riposte 2 (counter)
Hatchling's Flame 2 (30' cone of fire)
Fan the Flames 3 (ranged touch attack)
Holocaust Cloak 3 [stance]
Zephyr Dance 3 (counter)
Firesnake 4
Dragon's Flame 5 (30' cone of fire)
Leaping Flame 5 (counter)
Ring of Fire 6 (area effect)
Rising Phoenix 8 [stance]
Wyrm's Flame 8 (30' cone of fire)
Inferno Blast 9 (60' burst)

Devoted Spirit:
Shield Block 2 (counter)
Defensive Rebuke 3 (boost, attack you or provoke AoO)
Aura of Chaos 6 [stance]
Aura of Perfect Order 6 [stance]
Shield Counter 7 (counter)

Diamond Mind:
Moment of Perfect Mind 1 (counter, Will save)
Stance of Clarity 1 [stance]
Action Before Thought 2 (counter, Ref save)
Mind Over Body 3 (counter, Fort save)
Pearl of Black Doubt 3 [stance]
Hearing the Air 5 [stance]
Moment of Alacrity 6 (boost, +20 init)
Quicksilver Motion 7 (boost)
Diamond Defense 8 (counter, any save)
Stance of Alacrity 8 [stance]
Time Stands Still 9

Iron Heart:
Absolute Steel 3 [stance] (+10' speed)
Iron Heart Surge 3
Iron Heart Focus 5 (counter)
Iron Heart Endurance 6 (boost)
Lightning Throw 8 (30' line)

Setting Sun:
Counter Charge 1 (counter)
Step of the Wind 1 [stance]
Baffling Defense 2 (counter)
Feigned Opening 3 (counter)
Giant Killing Style 3 [stance] (+2 attack, +4 damage vs larger foes)
Shifting Defense 5 [stance]
Scorpion Parry 6 (counter)
Ghostly Defense 8 [stance]

Shadow Hand:
Child of Shadow 1 [stance] (concealment)
Cloak of Deception 2 (invisibility)
Shadow Jaunt 2
Assassin's Stance 3 [stance]
Dance of the Spider 3 [stance]
Shadow Garrote 3 (ranged touch attack)
Shadow Stride 5
Step of the Dancing Moth 5 [stance]
Shadow Noose 6 (ranged touch attack)
Shadow Blink 7
Balance on the Sky 8 [stance] (air walk)
One With Shadow 8 (boost, incorporeal)

Stone Dragon:
Stonefoot Stance 1 [stance]
Roots of the Mountain 3 [stance] (+10 vs bull rush, DR 2/-)
Giant's Stance 5 [stance] (weapon one size larger)
Earthquake Strike 8 (20' burst)

Tiger Claw:
Blood in the Water 1 [stance]
Hunter's Sense 1 [stance]
Sudden Leap 1 (boost)
Fountain of Blood 4 (counter)
Dancing Mongoose 5 (boost)
Raging Mongoose 8 (boost)

White Raven:
Bolstering Voice 1 [stance]
Leading the Charge 1 [stance]
Lion's Roar 3 (boost)
Tactics of the Wolf 3 [stance]
White Raven Tactics 3
Press the Advantage 5 [stance]
Order Forged From Chaos 6 (move action)
Swarm Tactics 8 [stance]


Here's a sample maneuver progression for a ranged-based Swordsage 20:


Swordsage 1: Blistering Flourish, Distracting Ember, Wind Stride, Moment of Perfect Mind, Counter Charge, Hunter's Sense [stance], Sudden Leap
Swordsage 2: Flame's Blessing [stance], Mighty Throw
Swordsage 3: Cloak of Deception
Swordsage 4: Shadow Jaunt, Baffling Defense (replacing Mighty Throw)
Swordsage 5: Shadow Garrote, Giant Killing Style [stance]
Swordsage 6: Fan the Flames, Mind Over Body (replacing Blistering Flourish)
Swordsage 7: Fountain of Blood
Swordsage 8: Firesnake, Zephyr Dance (replacing Distracting Ember)
Swordsage 9: Dancing Mongoose, Shifting Defense [stance]
Swordsage 10: Dragon's Flame, Shadow Stride (replacing Shadow Jaunt)
Swordsage 11: Shadow Noose
Swordsage 12: Scorpion Parry, Moment of Alacrity (replacing Dragon's Flame)
Swordsage 13: Quicksilver Motion
Swordsage 14: Shadow Blink, Hearing the Air [stance], Ring of Fire (replacing Firesnake),
Swordsage 15: Raging Mongoose, Martial Stance: Stance of Alacrity
Swordsage 16: One With Shadow, Diamond Defense (replacing Ring of Fire)
Swordsage 17: Time Stands Still
Swordsage 18: Inferno Blast, Fool's Strike (replacing Wind Stride)
Swordsage 19: Mountain Tombstone Strike
Swordsage 20: Feral Death Blow, Balance on the Sky [stance], Tornado Throw (replacing Counter Charge)



Ranged builds tend to be pretty starved for feats. Some magic items that may help:

Precise Shot: Use a ranged weapon with the Precise property (+1 bonus, MIC p. 40).

Far Shot: Horizon Goggles (8000 GP, Complete Mage p. 133) or Helm of the Hunter (9000 GP, MIC p. 194) provides the Far Shot feat.

Splitting property: +3 bonus, Champions of Ruin p. 42.

Ranged Shield: +1 bonus, MIC p. 13. Shield gains the Throwing and Returning property.

Glove of Taarnahm the Vigilant: 10000 GP, PGtF p. 123. Any held melee weapon gains the Throwing and Returning property.


Weapons/Items that may be useful for ranged builds:

Bone Bow (Frostburn) - Mechanically this functions the same as a Composite Greatbow, but it accommodates any Strength bonus without having to pay for each +1. If you use a lot of spells/powers/effects that changes your Strength score (bull's strength, rage, enlarge person, expansion, etc.), then this could be well worth spending a feat on Exotic Weapon Proficiency. It also offers the option to treat it as a martial weapon, but treating it as a non-proficient exotic weapon is actually better: you still take a -4 penalty, but you're not limited to one attack as a full-round action.

Elvencraft Bow (Races of the Wild) - There are a variety of combination bow/melee weapons out there, but this is the simplest and cheapest. 300 GP and you can treat your bow as a club or quarterstaff even if you're still using it as a bow. If you're looking for something fancier, the MIC features three types of Swordbows (free action to switch), a Bowstaff (swift action to switch), and a Bladed Crossbow (no action to switch).

Footbow (Races of the Wild) - Pretty much identical to a non-exotic composite longbow. However, if you can fly and can draw it back with both hands, you can get 1.5 times your Strength bonus on damage. If you're a raptoran crusader, you'll want to pick up one of these, otherwise stick with a composite longbow.

Greatbow, Composite (Complete Warrior) - If you can spare the feat, spending an Exotic Weapon Proficiency here might be a good option for a Warblade (since they can switch their EWP to another weapon if they stumble across something better). The 1 point of damage increase over a regular composite longbow may not seem like it would be worth a feat, but for a ranged build, you need as much extra damage as you can get your hands on.

Hank's Energy Bow (Animated Series Handbook) - Yes, they actually printed stats for this. Yes, they are available online. Yes, this is one of the few ways you can get something similar to Power Attack on a ranged weapon (but unfortunately does not offer the same damage multipliers). On top of that, it's an extremely versatile weapon that does not require any ammo, does an impressive 2d6 force damage, can use regular arrows, and can accommodate any Strength bonus.

Pitspawned template (DMGII) - For 1000 GP, adds a +2 untyped bonus to confirm criticals.

Strongarm Bracers (6000 GP, MIC p. 139) - Increase your weapon damage up one size category without mucking around with Powerful Build or Monkey Grip.

Bracers of Lightning (11000 GP, MIC p. 206) - Adds the shock property to all your attacks, including ranged. Although somewhat expensive, in most cases it's probably cheaper to buy these bracers than trying to add another +1 property to an existing magic weapon. The biggest drawback is it takes a swift action to activate, and most ToB builds are going to need their swift actions for something else.

Crystal of Energy Assault, Lesser (3000 GP, MIC p. 64) - This little gem is another great way to add another 1d6 of energy damage to your ranged attacks without spending a lot of gold. I recommend the Acid Assault, since fire, cold, and sonic damage can be added with spells, and electricity can be added with Bracers of Lightning.

...WOW. THANK YOU for taking so much time for this!
I was going to get a splitting Hank's Energy bow (longterm), and i have a elvencraft composite longbow right now that im using (i decided to have fun and stack as many non-magical buffs as i could find on it that were good:smallbiggrin:)


I just got a rough sketch of my character sheet up here (http://pifro.com/pro/view.php?id=6034)
:smallcool:




Again, sorry for all the posts:smallredface:

dextercorvia
2011-02-02, 10:06 PM
hmm, id need more info about this. Where is this spell? And what is devil's sight?

Blacklight is in the Spell Compendium. 3rd level Wiz/Sorc spell that makes a 20' ball of inky blackness that only you can see through and only if you are inside it. You can center it on a creature, object, or point in space. It's mobile in the first two cases, and stationary in the last.

Devil Sight is the ability to see in magic darkness. I may be misremembering, but I thought it was also the name of the invocation.


But....Wis to AC...and i was going to take Zen Archery....:smallfrown:

You can only get it once. The Swordsage ability only works in Light Armor, and the Ninja ability in no armor. (There is also a same source issue depending on how your DM reads that.)


(btw, i havent posted alot, but ive read several threads, and its....bad form to double post?... If so, I apologize, but it helps me to be able to see the thing im answering when im replying....i dont want to derail this thread, now that people have really started answering, but how do you post several quotes in one response?)

Yes, bad form and against forum guidelines. Multiquote is your friend. There is a "+ button next to quote. Click it on every post you want to quote and then click quote on the last one.

Demidos
2011-02-02, 11:06 PM
Blacklight is in the Spell Compendium. 3rd level Wiz/Sorc spell that makes a 20' ball of inky blackness that only you can see through and only if you are inside it. You can center it on a creature, object, or point in space. It's mobile in the first two cases, and stationary in the last.

Devil Sight is the ability to see in magic darkness. I may be misremembering, but I thought it was also the name of the invocation.



You can only get it once. The Swordsage ability only works in Light Armor, and the Ninja ability in no armor. (There is also a same source issue depending on how your DM reads that.)



Yes, bad form and against forum guidelines. Multiquote is your friend. There is a "+ button next to quote. Click it on every post you want to quote and then click quote on the last one.

So id need 1 lvl of warlock only?

They dont stack?:smallfrown:

Oops:smallredface: Sorry about that. Well, now i know:smallbiggrin:

dextercorvia
2011-02-02, 11:29 PM
That's the beauty of Blacklight. You don't need any levels of warlock. You can see out of any Blacklight you cast. It is part of the spell. You would only need Devil's Sight to see in someone else' Blacklight or Darkness (Deeper or otherwise).

If you were really into Devil's Sight, you can also get a Devil's Sight ability from the Planar Touchstone feat -- It'll cost you about 250gp and a couple of XP (<15, IIRC). Choose Catalogs of Enlightenment to link to the Baator Domain. Guess what the granted ability if the Baator Domain is. Hint: You can find it in the SpC.

Exactly which variant gestalt are you using? Is it 3//6, 4//5?

Road_Runner
2011-02-02, 11:40 PM
I would probably approve most homebrews btw :smallsmile:

Demidos
2011-02-03, 12:49 AM
That's the beauty of Blacklight. You don't need any levels of warlock. You can see out of any Blacklight you cast. It is part of the spell. You would only need Devil's Sight to see in someone else' Blacklight or Darkness (Deeper or otherwise).

If you were really into Devil's Sight, you can also get a Devil's Sight ability from the Planar Touchstone feat -- It'll cost you about 250gp and a couple of XP (<15, IIRC). Choose Catalogs of Enlightenment to link to the Baator Domain. Guess what the granted ability if the Baator Domain is. Hint: You can find it in the SpC.

Exactly which variant gestalt are you using? Is it 3//6, 4//5?

It can be either for any given level:smallsmile:


I would probably approve most homebrews btw :smallsmile:
Yay. Ok, DM says most homebrews are on the table. Any good suggestions for alternate to swordsage classes? I still like the archer idea, and the really good saves idea...

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-02-03, 01:50 AM
I'm quite fond of including Swordsage in a Soulbow (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060403a&page=2) build for added utility and for Wis SAD. Take Zen Archery and you get your Wisdom bonus to attack and damage rolls as well as to your AC. Note that a Mind Arrow can be fired with one hand, so you can TWF with them, which means you'll want a high Dex anyway to qualify for those so Zen Archery may not be necessary. However, if you get a race with a Wisdom bonus and/or start out old enough to get ability score adjustments, Zen Archery would probably be the way to go.

You could go with something like Swordsage 1/ Soulknife 2/ Swordsage 2/ Soulbow 4/ Swordsage 11 for the build, which would still get 9th level maneuvers at 20th, but I'd prefer to take all ten Soulbow levels. You could pick the Lucky (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/weapons.htm#lucky) property and every Mind Arrow you create would have a fresh daily limit on the ability's use, so every time you miss you'll get a chance to reroll the attack. If you know you're going to be fighting a lot of one type of creature, it would be worth putting the Bane property on them to get an extra +2 enhancement and +2d6 damage on every attack. With a TWF build at Soulbow 10 I'd get Lucky and Wounding, you could put out 6+ points of Con damage every round with ITWF and Rapid Shot.

dextercorvia
2011-02-03, 08:53 AM
You could put Ranger levels opposite Soulknife levels to get TWF without the having a high Dexterity.