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View Full Version : [3.5] Gestalt conondrum help.



fortesama
2011-01-23, 03:46 AM
I'm in a gestalt game now. I'm using a wizard//factotum. i'm seeing a bard//barbarian leaning towards charger, a template stacked mishmash of classes which i cannot remember other than cleric and scout leaning towards charger, and an incoming player with rogue on one half unsure on the other.

The relevant houserules:
*Cannot mix 2 casters on the same level.
*cannot mix a tome of battle character and caster on the same level.
*If a character plans a paladin//caster or ranger//caster, the paladin or ranger half must be a nonspellcasting variant.
*no homebrew
*no pathfinder
*All of these are fine: dragon mag, official wotc material, web enhancements.
*3rd party material approved on a case to case basis.
*word for word from the GM's message: "strictly no BoEF" (what book is that anyway?)
*factotum is not a caster
*may delay taking feats until at a higher level

Casters include: Anything with a spell list, anything with an invocation list, shadowcaster, truenamer.

The problem: once i hit 9 class levels, i intended to dip into warblade, sacrificing my factotum half. house rule no. 2 broke that plan apart. what i need to accomplish:
*Get hold of white raven tactics and iron heart surge.
*get a maneuver refresh method. may be optional but still...
*Try to do this without using my 1st, 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th and 18th level feats
*Above all, not to lose caster progression.

Current solutions:
*Fighter dip at 10th and 11th level, sacrificing my factotum half. not too painful. but no refresh method
*Chaos shuffle out a couple of racial feats for being an elf, still no refresh method. and i know it's cheesy.

it's probably impossible to get a refresh method without losing a wizard level though...

edit: ah, almost forgot: i'm using the fighter feats for Martial Study. same goes for the chaos shuffle solution.

ex cathedra
2011-01-23, 03:59 AM
BoEF is the Book of Erotic Fantasy.

Honestly, you don't need these things that you want, as it seems that no one else in your group is at your tier level, and raping the action economy that badly will just exacerbate things. What I mean to say is that if you feel that this is necessary, so be it, but be aware that it's very likely that you will overshadow your party if properly played, and that's not really fun for anyone involved in my experience.

I would suggest that you don't worry about a maneuver refresh method; very rarely would refreshing your maneuvers be a better use of your actions than simply casting another spell.

fortesama
2011-01-23, 04:56 AM
my group's been screwed over by AMFs shutting down their gear or spells before and want someone to access IHS to take it off. Apparently no one's willing to have to handle a list of "spellsy stuffs". The rogues (who somehow consistently roll higher than me in initiatives in every game i've been) also enjoyed me passing a white raven tactics to them once i've immobilised the major threats and use summons or spells to set up flanks, letting them eat a sneak delicious sneak attack right after.

TheOOB
2011-01-23, 05:50 AM
The houserules basically seem to mean your DM wants everyone to be a caster/combat hybrid. The no ToB/Caster house rule basically is telling you not to play ToB classes. If your campaign is difficult enough to warrant gestalt characters, you'll want spellcasting, and the ToB classes don't really need a multiclass that strongly.

Bard/Barbarian is an interesting class, bardic music and rage make for a lot of power, the you are combining two very sub-par classes, and you can't cast while raging.

If you want to be a skill monkey, try beguiler from PHB2. It's the best skill monkey class, and a caster to boot.

Personally though, with those rules I would go Fighter/Sorcerer or Fighter/Beguiler going into Dragon Disciple/Sorcerer or Dragon Disciple/Beguiler, with one level of barbarian because fighter 5 sucks.

HeadlessMermaid
2011-01-23, 05:57 AM
At first glance, it doesn't seem possible - even without a recovery method.

Martial Study can be taken up to 3 times, and you need 4 maneuvers (Iron Heart Surge, White Raven tactics, and one of each discipline for the prerequisites). Martial Stance needs a maneuver as a prerequisite, so it can't help you either.

I think you should just pick one of them. Iron Heart Surge can be a lifesaver, but remember that you need to be able to move to initiate any maneuver - so, technically, it shouldn't work if you're cowering, dazed, helpless, paralyzed, petrified, pinned, stunned, unconscious or otherwise immobilized. [Note: there have been endless debates about when Iron Heart Surge can be initiated and what sort of effects it can end. Consult your DM to be sure.]

White Raven Tactics is great, but you need to be glued to your Rogues - it has a range of 10 ft only. Not sure if that's generally wise.

I'd pick Iron Heart Surge, because even if it's available only once per encounter, it's worth it. If it can end AMFs [again, consult your DM], definitely take it.

White Raven Tactics, on the other hand, is awesome for people who are on the front line with their buddies, but kind of situational for casters who stay back. A Wizard/Facotum has plenty of other ways to support the Rogues and Chargers. IMO.

Tibbaerrohwen
2011-01-23, 01:02 PM
A Wizard/Facotum has plenty of other ways to support the Rogues and Chargers. IMO.

Agreed. Wizard/Facotum blend should be more than enough for you to handle most of the problems you'll meet.

If your DM is allowing you to take a PrC, have you thought of a build that uses Jade Pheonix Mage?


Honestly, you don't need these things that you want, as it seems that no one else in your group is at your tier level, and raping the action economy that badly will just exacerbate things. What I mean to say is that if you feel that this is necessary, so be it, but be aware that it's very likely that you will overshadow your party if properly played, and that's not really fun for anyone involved in my experience.


+1

fortesama
2011-01-23, 11:58 PM
I thought hybrid PrCs aren't allowed as per gestalt rules?