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Cadian 9th
2011-01-23, 10:03 PM
So I'll be playing with my own party of 6th level gestalt characters... The adventure is a mix of social/subterfuge/evil above ground and a dungeon crawl, and my DM has said he's challenging me with CR 10.

I've been allowed all resources, with 3.0 on approval, including Dual Progression classes, flaws, traits (2 each), and some homebrew. Level based effects cap at my character level, so no Wizard 6//Archivist 3/Mystic theruge 3 getting Wizard 9 casting. I've tried to keep homebrew to a minimum for my optimizing skill (to use the builds elsewhere if they're really good). Furthermore, I've rolled 5d6b3 7 drop lowest, and I'll post the ability arrays that I rolled. If I didn't like the roll, I can pick a 32 PB.

I've also made a pact insidious with a devil, getting 2 bonus feats at 6th level. Obviously, this is a high powered party, but I want to make sure it's the best it can be.

Without further ado, here are the characters.

Lysander

Using wildshape to counter venerable age, Lysander will be my primary arcanist, so to speak. His companion is insanely good, however, gets better with Companion Spellbond. Originally I had a level of ninja but I went for the extra level of wizard.

He'll mostly camp out in Fleshraker form, being able to talk proper due to Shifter's speech. Wildshape also helps me blend into crowds in the above ground bits, I guess.


Dragonborn Venerable Lesser Aasimar Druid 5/Arcane Hierophant 1//Ranger 1/Wizard 4/Master of Many Forms 1 (Dragonborn, then venerable.)

Flaws: Pathetic Charisma, Vulnerable.

HD: 6d8+6
Ba: +4
AC: 16 (-4 Dex, +8 Wisdom, +2 Natural, +1 Insight, -1 Flaw) FF: 20, Touch 15.
AC: 30 (+4 Dex, +8 Wisdom, +8 Natural, +1 Insight, -1 Flaw) FF: 26, Touch 22. (Fleshraker Form)
Speed: 30ft/50ft
Ini: -4/+4;
Saves: Fort +7, Ref +3, Will +16
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +12, Will +16 (Fleshraker Form)
Ability Scores: Str 2, Dex 1, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 24 (26), Cha 9;
Ability Scores: Str 17, Dex 19, Con 15, Int 14, Wis 24 (26), Cha 9; (Fleshraker Form)

Special Attacks
Spells, Spells, More spells. (Poison, Leaping Pounce)

Special Qualities
AC Bonus (Item), Tracking, Favored Environment (Underground), Wild Empathy +1, Vermin Empathy +5, Wild Shape 5/day (6 hours, Animal, Humanoid, Small, Medium), Shifter's Speech, Companion familiar, Nature Sense, Roofwalker (Dungeon Stride, Resist Aberrant Taint), Trackless Step, Animal Companion (6th, -3+3), Familiar (Hedghog) 5th, Specialized Conjurer, Barred Schools: Necromancy, Enchantment,

Feats
TrackB, Alertness, Endurance, Companion Spellbond, Natural Bond, Natural Spell, Sage MagicianB, Extra Wild ShapeB,

Skills
Concentration 9 +10 (+12), Hide 0 -5 (+12, +14 in forested areas), Knowledge: Arcana 8 +10, Knowledge: Nature 8 +10, Jump 0 -5 (+16), Listen 6 +16, Move Silently 4 -1 (+8), Survival 9 +17 (+19 above ground in a natural setting), Spellcraft 9 +13,

Spellbook
All 0th.
1st: Buzzing Bee, Kelgore's Fire Bolt, Lesser Orb of Sonic, Fists of Stone, Enlarge Person, Reduce Person, Magic Weapon, Shield, Mage Armor, Know Protections, Feather Fall, Skittish Nerves, Disguise Self, Color Spray
2nd: Invisibility, Bear's Endurance, Cat's Grace, Glitterdust, Summon Monster II, Melf's Acid Arrow, Web, Nybor’s Gentle Reminder, Touch of Idiocy, Celerity, Cloud of Bewilderment, Mirror Image
3rd: Dispel Magic, Magic circle, Lesser Shadow Tentacle, Greater Mage Armor, Mestil's Acid Breath, Sepia Snake Sigil, Stinking cloud, Summon Monster III, Leomund’s Tiny Hut, Stars of Arvandor, Displacement, Gaseous Form, Haste, Blink, Keen Edge, Fly

Spells per day (Wisdom for Wizard spell access and bonus spells per day)
Wizard:
0th: 5, 1st: 6, 2nd: 5, 3rd: 4
Druid:
0th: 5, 1st: 5, 2nd: 5, 3rd: 4

Gear:
Periapt of Wisdom +2.
Monk's Belt.


Sariss

My " Striker. " He dipped Factotum for Iajitsu Focus and Cunning Insight, which'll help him get those maneuver effects on the enemy. High dex makes him have a good AC but I want it higher...

Uncanny Dodge has kept the dex investment strong, as does evasion. I will use this guy as a " Rush and Rend " guy, use staggering strike with burning blade and Wolf Fang Strike/Sudden leap to get a number of attacks on a FF enemy. Of course, I may go for Shadow Blade Technique for the two rolls, just to make sure I get Iajitsu focus' benefit and my lovely +7d6+6 sneak attack damage.


Lesser Wispling Swashbuckler 3/Warblade 2/Hit and Run Sneak Attack fighter 1//Swordsage 1/Psionic Rogue 1/Rogue 2/Factotum 1/Swordsage 2nd

Flaws: Poor Reflexes, Shaky
Trait: Quick

HD: 2d12+4d10+12
Ba: +6
AC: 22 (+7 Dex, +2 Leafweave Leather armor, +1 Size, +2 Wisdom) FF: 22, Touch 20.
Speed: 30ft.
Ini: +10;
Saves: Fort +12, Ref +18, Will +7

Ability Scores: Str 13, Dex 23 (25), Con 16, Int 20, Wis 15, Cha 12;

Special Attacks
Cunning Insight +5, Maneuvers, Hit and Run tactics +7 damage, Sneak Attack +7d6+6, Psionics, Iajitsu Focus, Swashbuckler strike +5

Special Qualities
Battle Clarity (+2), Grace +1, Quick to Act +1, Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, Trapfinding, AC Bonus, Discipline Focus, Weapon Aptitude, 2 Inspiration, Cunning Knowledge +1, Cunning Insight +5, Halfling traits, Planetouched Traits, Stances, Disguise self 1/day

Feats
Weapon FinesseB, Weapon FocusB Craven, Quickdraw, Shadow Blade, Daring Outlaw, Staggering Strike, Exotic Weapon Profficiency (Kaorti Drow Scorpion Chain)B, Adaptive StyleB,

Skill Tricks
Nimble Stand, Hidden Blade, Sudden Draw

Skills
Balance 5 +14, Concentration 9 +12, Escape Artist 8 +15; Hide 7 +18, Iajitsu Focus 8 +9, Jump 5 +10, Listen 9 +13, Move Silently 9 +18, Spot 9 +11, Tumble 9 +18, Use Magic Device 2 +3

Powers Known
Force Screen, 2 power points.

Maneuvers Known
Swordsage: Burning Blade, Moment of Perfect Mind, Counter Charge, Wolf Fang Strike, Saphire Nightmare Blade, Shadow Jaunt, Shadow Blade Technique, Readied: 4.
Warblade: Steely Strike, Sudden Leap, Douse the Flames, Tactical Strike, Readied: 3.

Stances Known
Island of Blades, Child of Shadow, Bolstering Voice

Gear:
+1 Kaorti Drow scorpion chain (19-20/x4).
Leafweave Leather Armor
Gloves of Dexterity +2.


Rai

I felt I really needed to take Archivist in order to get those higher level spells I'd need, facing monsters which are expecting us to have defences against their attacks. Hence, the Archivist has a ton of spells to pick...

I took Factotum to keep him a competent assasin as well as a social guy. A lot of the goodies of Archivist include getting enchantment spells early, something I'm happy to take advantage of. Hide in Plain sight will hopefully keep him safe. He's also my main trapfinder.


Lesser Wispling Archivist 6//Dark LA 1/Factotum 4/Halfling Monk 1

Flaws: Vulnerable, Non-combatant

HD: 4d8+2d6+12
Ba: +4
AC: 21 (+5 Dex, +6 Int, +1 Size, -1 Vulnerable) FF: 16, Touch 21.
Speed: 40ft
Ini: +11
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +12, Will +9
Ability Scores: Str 10, Dex 20, Con 15, Int 20 (22), Wis 14, Cha 12;

Special Attacks
Spells, Cunning Insight +6, Cunning Strike +nd6, Arcane Dilettante, Unarmed Attacks, Skirmish +1d6,

Special Qualities
AC Bonus, Fast Movement +10ft, Sleeping Tiger Style, Inspiration (6), Cunning Knowledge +4, Cunning Defence, Cunning Insight +6, Brains Over Brawn, Trapfinding, Still Mind, Lore Mastery (Knowledge: Dungeoneering), Dark Knowledge (Pussiance, Tactics) 5/day, Hide in Plain Sight, Halfling traits, Planetouched Traits, Resistance to Cold 10,

Feats
Scribe ScrollB, Darkstalker, Carmendine Monk, Invisible Spell, Non-Verbal Spell, Font of Inspiration, Font of InspirationB, Tactile TrapsmithB, Weapon FinesseB

Skills
Concentration 6 +8, Disable Device 7 +24, Open Lock 6 +23, Hide 8 +38, Move Silently 9 +28, Knowledge: Dungeoneering 8 +16, Knowledge: The Planes 6 +12, Knowledge: Religion 6 +12, Search 9 +24,

Prayerbook
All 0th cleric
1st: Remove Paralysis, Lesser Restoration, Delay Poison, Resist Energy, Blockade, Charm Animal, Charm Person, Undectable alignment, Magic Weapon, Summon Undead I, Summon Monster I, Faith Healing, Silent Image
2nd: Cure moderate Wounds, Remove Blindness/Deafness, Remove Disease, Body Ward, Soul Ward, Magic Circle Against Evil, Protection from negative/positive energy, Blur, Mirror Image, Minor Image, Misdirection, Torrent of Tears, False Lie, Locate Object, Zone of Truth, Detect Thoughts, Augry, See Invisibility, Tongues, Lesser Celerity, Clariaudience/Clairvoyance, Suggestion, Hold Animal, Hold Person, Ghoul Glyph, Wind Wall, Soften earh/stone, Desecrate, Glitterdust.
3rd: Mass lesser Vigor, Restoration, Neutralize Poison, Death Ward, Delay Death, Storm Shield, Mass Resist Energy, Call Lightning, Lightning Bolt, Clutch of Orcus, energy Vulnerability, bedevil, Dominate Animal, Dominate vermin, Charm Monster, Lesser geas, Dimensional Anchor, Disobedience, Create Fetch, Blindness/Deafness, Invisibility Purge, Suppress Glyph, Haste

Spells per day:
Oth: 4, 1st: 5, 2nd: 5, 3rd: 3

Gear:
Headband of Intellect +2.
Cloak of Shadows (+5 competence hide)
MW Theives tools.
Handbook of Dungeoneering (+4 competence bonus on Open Lock, Disable device and Search)
Spells.


Horus:

The knight defender. I'm worried about his non-buffed AC being so low, and also his HP. Basically he uses Insane Defiance to redirect mental effects back at the caster, and once per round uses Chosen of evil to get a little bonus. Normally this can offset power attack, leaving me with a decent +12 damage. Due to his class features, the area 20ft around him is difficult terrain and at +5 tumble DC, and he grants all allies within 20ft +4 AC, effectively.


Lesser Aasimar Knight 5/Crusader 1//Cloistered Cleric 1/Paladin of Tyranny 2/Binder 1/Ordained Champion 2

Flaws: Shaky, Meager Fortitude

HD: 5d12+1d10+12
Ba: +6
AC: 22 (+1 Dex, +8 MW Full plate) FF: 18, Touch 11.
Speed: 20ft.
Ini: +1;
Saves: Fort +14, Ref +6, Will +13

Ability Scores: Str 16 (18), Dex 12, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 18;

Special Attacks
Smite (OC), Smite Good 1/day, Command, Furious Counterstrike, Fighting Challenge +1, Power Attack, Maneuvers, Chosen of Evil +6,

Special Qualities
Knight's Challenge 6/day, Code of Conduct (Bleh), Shield Block +1, Bulwark of Defence, Vigilant Defender, Test of Mettle, Steely Resolve, Furious Counterstrike, Stances, Turn Undead 7/day, Lore +0, Domains, Smite Good 1/day +4 attack +2 damage, Detect Good, Dark Blessing, Deadly Touch 8/day, Soul Binding (Naberius), Faster Ability Healing, Disguise Self, Naberius' Skills, Command, Silver Tongue, Bonus Domain, War Domain, Spontaneous Casting (war Domain), Continued Advancement, Smite +4 attack +3 damage, Feats,

Feats
DiehardB, Insane DefianceB Willing Deformity, Deformity (Tongue), Deformity (tall), Evil's Blessing, Chosen of Evil, Mounted combatB Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain)B, Combat ReflexesB, Power attackB, Weapon FocusB, Stand StillB,

Skills
Diplomacy 8 +12, Concentration 6 +8, Knowledge: Religion 7 +6, Jump 4 +2, Sense Motive 4 +5,

Maneuvers Known
Crusader: Crusader's Strike, Vanguard Strike, Leading the Attack, Foe Hammer, Shield Block

Stances Known
Iron Guards Glare.

Gear:
Gauntlets of Ogre power
MW Full Plate armor



Lyr, Fleshraker Companion Familiar:

Powerful pouncer, especially when buffed up with Fists of Stone. Also has Fell Conspiracy. Telepathy, 100ft and +10 listen and spot, yes please. It's more funny since Lyr is a dinosaur. Working towards Leap Attack.


Animal Companion Benefits: +4 HD, +4 Natural Armor, +2 Str/Dex adjustment, Link, Share Spells, Evasion, Devotion.
Familiar benefits: +3 Natural Armor, Alertness, Improved Evasion, Empathic Link, Deliver Touch Spells, Speak with master, Int 8, grants +2 Natural armor (Hedgehog)

Medium Magical beast
Hit Dice:8d8+16 (52 hp)
Initiative: +5
Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares)
Armor Class: 28 (+5 Dex, +13 natural), touch 15, fl at-footed 23
Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+10
Attack: Claw +10 melee (1d6+4 and poison)
Full Attack: 2 claws +10 melee (1d6+4 plus poison) and bite
+8 melee (1d6+2) and tail +8 melee (1d6+2 plus poison)
Leaping Full Attack: 2 claws +12 melee (1d6+1d4+4 plus poison) and bite
+10 melee (1d6+1d4+2) and tail +10 melee (1d6+1d4+2 plus poison)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Leaping pounce, poison, rake 1d6+2
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +11, Will +4
Abilities: Str 19, Dex 21, Con 15, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 12
Skills: Hide +13*, Jump 3 +21, Knowledge: Religion 8 +7
Feats: Power Attack, Improved Natural Attack (Claw), Shape Soulmeld (Thunderstep boots), Fell ConspiracyB, Multi-attackB
Environment: Temperate forests
Organization: Solitary or pack (3–10)
Challenge Rating: 2
Treasure: None
Alignment: LE
Advancement: 5–8 HD (Medium); 9–12 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: —

Leaping Pounce (Ex): Jumping pounce. Get's to make a free trip attack, then can grapple pin, rending them on the ground.
Poison (Ex): Injury, Fortitude DC 14, initial damage
1d6 Dex, secondary damage 1d6 Dex. The save DC is
Constitution-based.
Rake (Ex): Attack bonus +2 melee, damage 1d6+2.
Skills: +8 racial bonus on Hide checks and a +6 racial bonus on Jump checks. *The Hide bonus increases to +10 in forested areas.


I need some more items, and I'm happy to swap out pretty much anything. I'd rather keep the same roles around, however, but apart from that I'd really appreciate some help in this, from tactics, to build choices, to feats and more.

Sohala
2011-01-23, 10:15 PM
Do you intend to level?

To double check, you are being allow two PrC per level if you want?

NineThePuma
2011-01-23, 10:22 PM
Try for some Leadership Abuse, maybe? Get some meat shields.

Cadian 9th
2011-01-23, 10:38 PM
@Sohola, yeah, I hope I'll be leveling up. Also, yes, my DM lets me advance two PrCs at once.

Leadership... I didn't really think about that, to be honest. If they're good enough I'd rather not rely on a feat that everyone bans to make them good, so I'll go for one guy with leadership, tops. Undead or normal?

randomhero00
2011-01-23, 10:53 PM
Is PF allowed? Gestalt Druid and Summoner. its nuts.

RandomAction
2011-01-23, 11:17 PM
Gestalt huh?

Here is a link (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870266/Gestalt_Resource,_the_combos_Wizards_dont_want_you _to_know) that will probably help you out some. Unless you already have been to it.

As for your party, I will get back to you. Do you have a deadline for the finished characters?

Cadian 9th
2011-01-23, 11:40 PM
Is PF allowed? Gestalt Druid and Summoner. its nuts.

No pathfinder, unfortunately.


Gestalt huh?

Here is a link (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870266/Gestalt_Resource,_the_combos_Wizards_dont_want_you _to_know) that will probably help you out some. Unless you already have been to it.

As for your party, I will get back to you. Do you have a deadline for the finished characters?

Nice, thanks for the link!

Uh, no, no deadline. I'd rather get playing sooner than later, though. :smalltongue:

Samm
2011-01-24, 12:16 AM
Right. Okay, with Horus, you'd probably want to switch Power Attack for Stone Power, the TOB feat. Basically it'd give you DR against your delayed damage pool.

To do that though, you'd have to get a Stone Dragon Manouevre (however you spell it). Now, I'd suggest switching Foehammer for Mountain Hammer, unless it's needed for something. Mountain hammer, gives you slightly more utility and the same amount of damage because you can use it to sunder objects as well attack people. Foehammer can't sunder objects. Of course if you're spending a lot of time flying or off the ground, Mountain Hammer is worse, but otherwise it's better.

Sohala
2011-01-24, 12:40 AM
Lysander
If you want to up your animal companion a little more, the beast master class is a possible choice. Enspell Familiar is better than Companion Spellbond, as your companion is your familiar. Pick up Enhance Familiar for your wizard spells.

Sariss
Unsure how this effects your BAB, save, or skills, but a level of assassin seems like a nice fit in here. I am probably just missing something, but wouldn’t a least return crystal replace quick draw?

Horus
I think the tank needs 5 ranks of balance and Agile Leaping boots. Steadfast Boots might not be all that bad with your chain.

Misc items
Healing belts, anklets of translocation, metamagic rods (most likely extend), artifacter's monical, item to spam detect magic with, bags of holding or haversacks, an item of legacy for each, Gloves of Object Reading (if you think you might need them), Marvelous Pigments…

Cadian 9th
2011-01-24, 02:03 AM
Lysander
If you want to up your animal companion a little more, the beast master class is a possible choice. Enspell Familiar is better than Companion Spellbond, as your companion is your familiar. Pick up Enhance Familiar for your wizard spells.


Good idea on Beastmaster. Toss up between ability to disguise and wild shape more, or a more powerful companion... It would free up a feat, at least.

Where's Enspell familiar? Also, noted. Enhance Familiar.



Sariss
Unsure how this effects your BAB, save, or skills, but a level of assassin seems like a nice fit in here. I am probably just missing something, but wouldn’t a least return crystal replace quick draw?


I need Base attack +6 for Staggering strike, but I could shuffle swordsage around and instead put assassin in, perhaps dropping a level of psionic rogue or something. I need Quick Draw for Sudden Draw and Hidden Blade, pretty good ways to make my opponent FF for Iajitsu focus and sneak attack.



Horus
I think the tank needs 5 ranks of balance and Agile Leaping boots. Steadfast Boots might not be all that bad with your chain.

Misc items
Healing belts, anklets of translocation, metamagic rods (most likely extend), artifacter's monical, item to spam detect magic with, bags of holding or haversacks, an item of legacy for each, Gloves of Object Reading (if you think you might need them), Marvelous Pigments…

Thinking of dropping Knight. I get much of the effect using Stand Still, So I could use the extra two Fighter levels to, as TS said, go for the Mage Slayer and lockdown my enemies. That way, I can also put in Lolth Touched for +6 Str and Con, giving me more HP and better hitting power.

Sohala
2011-01-24, 09:28 AM
Dragon #280 and Dungeon Compendium Vol. 1, supposedly. I only mention it because you said you have all resources. It increases the range of shared spells to a mile.

Cadian 9th
2011-01-24, 06:24 PM
Dragon #280 and Dungeon Compendium Vol. 1, supposedly. I only mention it because you said you have all resources. It increases the range of shared spells to a mile.

That's a pretty epic feat. I'll get that.

Looking at a newer build for Horus, Cloistered Cleric 1/Lolth Touched 1/Binder 1/Ranger 1/Ordained Champion 2//Fighter 2/Crusader 1/Paladin of Tyranny 2/Warblade 1 with Mage Slayer, and either Stormguard Warrior and/or Combat Brute. Stormguard will work well due to long reach and Combat Reflexes, and Combat Brute will also work due to my long reach - Might look into swapping Cleric Smiting (+4 on attack and +3 damage 11/day) by taking out Ordained Champion and Cleric, but the 2 fighter bonus feats and bonus domain is quite hard to pass up.

For Sariss, Gloom Razor would be epic for Iajitsu focus and Hit and Run and pretty much everything he's about. I might look at permanently reducing his size to Tiny and picking up Giantbane, so he can devastate medium targets, again, gaining the Flat footed bonuses he gets.

For Lysander, I'll take Sage Magician again to control Wizard save DCs by Wisdom, and swap Companion spell bond for Enspell Familiar.

Rai seems pretty solid, though I might end up dropping the monk level and move towards Cunning Surge and more inspiration.

Sohala
2011-01-24, 07:05 PM
Imo, you should shift crusader behind the paladin levels. 5th level nets 2nd level maneuvers.

Cadian 9th
2011-01-24, 07:17 PM
Imo, you should shift crusader behind the paladin levels. 5th level nets 2nd level maneuvers.

Of course - but I might need it to select Ironheart Aura to qualify for Stormguard warrior.

Person_Man
2011-01-26, 12:58 PM
My 2cp:

Lysander: The Arcane Hierophant's ability to combine your Familiar and Animal Companion into one Spellbound Companion actually makes it weaker. The biggest strength of a Companion or Familiar is it's action advantage. Before combat you use Alter Self or Polymorph or whatever to buff yourself and your Companion and your Familiar, then on the first round of combat your Familiar delivers a touch spell, then you cast a spell, then your Companion attacks. After that your Familiar and Companion make a full attack every turn, and you cast or make a full attack. You essentially get 3 full round actions every round. Spellbound Companion reduces this to two.

There's also no particular reason to take the level of Ranger or Master of Many Forms. I realize you can get full casting on both sides because your DM is allowing duel progression cheese (which I would not allow), but you'd be better off using those extra levels for more useful class abilities. You might want to look at the Binder, Incarnate, Totemist, Warblade, etc.

I'm not familiar with Sage Magician, but Alertness, Endurance, and Extra Wild Shape are all huge wastes. You may wish to look at Aberration Wild Shape, Frozen Wild Shape, Winged Warrior, Intuitive Attack, Inhuman Reach, Close Quarters Fighting, and Arcane Strike.

Sariss: So if this guy wants to deliver damage, then Swashbuckler and Sneak Attack are inefficient methods of doing so, even with the weird stacking thing you've got going on. You may wish to consider Warblade 6//Factotum 3/Psychic Rogue 2/Master of Masks 1, or something similar. That would give you full BAB (for a Power Attack combo) and manuever progression on one side, with Skills/Iajitsu/Evasion/etc on the other, with the added benefits of Brains Over Brawn and proficiency with every exotic weapon.

In terms of feats, I think that you should drop the jumble of Shadow Blade, Daring Outlaw, Adaptive Style, and the Exotic Weapon Prof (Kaorti) and Exotic Weapon Prof (Scorpion Chain), in favor of a more traditional melee combo.

Rai: Monk? I think you should simplify. Archivist 6//Anything X will be fine though.

Horus:: Build seems fine, although again it seems overly complicated. You seem to have an overwhelming urge to squeeze everything you can out of your X to Y bonuses. I personally prefer to have more resources/options, and would suggest Knight 5/Whatever 1//Crusader or Binder 6 or Cleric 5/PrC 1 instead.

In terms of feats, Diehard and Weapon Focus are a waste, and I htink Spiked Chain is as well unless you're using Enlarge Person or Alter Self or something similar to increase your size. Otherwise, looks good.

Sohala
2011-01-26, 08:41 PM
I always thought trading an animal companion and familiar for a Companion Familiar was a good trade...

Trade a liability and dumb animal for an intelligent companion.

Cadian 9th
2011-01-28, 03:51 AM
My 2cp:

Lysander: The Arcane Hierophant's ability to combine your Familiar and Animal Companion into one Spellbound Companion actually makes it weaker. The biggest strength of a Companion or Familiar is it's action advantage. Before combat you use Alter Self or Polymorph or whatever to buff yourself and your Companion and your Familiar, then on the first round of combat your Familiar delivers a touch spell, then you cast a spell, then your Companion attacks. After that your Familiar and Companion make a full attack every turn, and you cast or make a full attack. You essentially get 3 full round actions every round. Spellbound Companion reduces this to two.


I never thought of it before, to be honest. Thanks for pointing this out! The only problem is that you MUST combine the two, which is annoying. I might be able to work it out with my DM, but I've just realised that having wizard and druid on the same character is too many actions and not enough actual abilities. I.e. Wizard doesn't add much. With this in mind I've made a few big changes to the party.



There's also no particular reason to take the level of Ranger or Master of Many Forms. I realize you can get full casting on both sides because your DM is allowing duel progression cheese (which I would not allow), but you'd be better off using those extra levels for more useful class abilities. You might want to look at the Binder, Incarnate, Totemist, Warblade, etc.

I'm not familiar with Sage Magician, but Alertness, Endurance, and Extra Wild Shape are all huge wastes. You may wish to look at Aberration Wild Shape, Frozen Wild Shape, Winged Warrior, Intuitive Attack, Inhuman Reach, Close Quarters Fighting, and Arcane Strike.


I needed a full base attack class to get me into Arcane Hierophant this early, since it wants Base attack +4. I liked ranger since it gave me a ref save buff and plenty of skill points, as well as track for out of combat stuff. I've taken your advice on the utility though, so I've changed his build to cross out wizard and put swordsage and totemist in.

Sage magician swaps the int for bonus spells and spell access to wisdom, homebrew feat. I needed Alertness and Endurance for MoMF, to get some extra mileage out of wildshape and use it out of combat. I realize that's rather silly, since, disguise self does much the same thing with less class level investment :smalltongue: Picked up Aberrant Wildshape and inhuman reach, not sure about Arcane Strike - it seems pretty weak in comparison to casting the spell, especially with level 3 spells being my maximum.



Sariss: So if this guy wants to deliver damage, then Swashbuckler and Sneak Attack are inefficient methods of doing so, even with the weird stacking thing you've got going on. You may wish to consider Warblade 6//Factotum 3/Psychic Rogue 2/Master of Masks 1, or something similar. That would give you full BAB (for a Power Attack combo) and manuever progression on one side, with Skills/Iajitsu/Evasion/etc on the other, with the added benefits of Brains Over Brawn and proficiency with every exotic weapon.

In terms of feats, I think that you should drop the jumble of Shadow Blade, Daring Outlaw, Adaptive Style, and the Exotic Weapon Prof (Kaorti) and Exotic Weapon Prof (Scorpion Chain), in favor of a more traditional melee combo.


I realize that now... This is exactly why I put the party up for evaluation. I've dropped back on the sneak attack completely, even with the loss of sudden strike, and picked up wizard on one side (freeing up one side of Lysander to be more useful). Abjurant Champion will keep him good while Warblade 6 gives him damage. I've got 7d6+13 damage after easy, 1st level and potion buffing, which is much, much better than what I had, and I have 6 levels of warblade AND arcane casting. Much, much better.



Rai: Monk? I think you should simplify. Archivist 6//Anything X will be fine though.


Simplified, I think I have Overcomplication issues. Dropped the monk level and picked up more inspiration... On my way to Factotum 8 at 9th level.



Horus:: Build seems fine, although again it seems overly complicated. You seem to have an overwhelming urge to squeeze everything you can out of your X to Y bonuses. I personally prefer to have more resources/options, and would suggest Knight 5/Whatever 1//Crusader or Binder 6 or Cleric 5/PrC 1 instead.

In terms of feats, Diehard and Weapon Focus are a waste, and I htink Spiked Chain is as well unless you're using Enlarge Person or Alter Self or something similar to increase your size. Otherwise, looks good.

I know, I have that overcomplication issue... I've changed him to drop the extraneous knight levels, for a simpler and more versatile Knight 3/Binder 1/Knight of the Sacred Seal 2//Martial Rogue 2/Crusader 4. Diehard and Weapon focus were bonus feats/needed to qualify for Ordained Champion (or both), and I picked Diehard as a bonus feat from Knight so I could get a proper bonus feat from Ordained Champion. Ordained Champion lets you pick any feat if you already have diehard, and the knight list was,,, suboptimal.

New builds:

Sariss:
Warblade 6//Monk (Carmendine as a bonus feat, thanks DM) 1/Wizard 4/Abj. Champion 1

Using a heavy large greatsword for 4d6 damage (Just 1d6 less than my whole prievous builds sneak attack damage, and 6d6 when enlarged. Using Greater mage armor for high AC with Shield.

Feats: Delay potion, PAttack, EWP (heavy GS), Smiting Spell, Ironheart Aura, Stormguard Warrior, Improved Initiative, Combat Casting.

Interestingly, with the Cautious Trait and 9 ranks tumble, I can fight defensively at -4 melee for +4 AC, which is nice, for no feat investment and skill points into a good skill. Also, +7 dodge to AC in total defence, which is a nice figure.

Lysander:
Swordsage 1/Totemist 2/Swordsage 3//Druid 6
Adaptive Style, Aberrant Blood, Inhuman Reach, Aberrant Wild Shape, Assume Supernatural Ability, Natural Spell, Intuitive attack, Natural Bond,

Totem chakra bind and Swordsage abilities should be fun while in a wildshape buffed up druid.

Horus:
Knight 3/Binder 3//Martial Rogue 2/Crusader 4
Stand Still, Deformity, Tall, Tongue, Evil's Blessing, weapon Focus, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain), Mounted Combat, Deft Opportunist, Mage Slayer, Power Attack, Leadership.

Now has Binding level 3, for 2nd level vestiges, and some cha based features. Now, steely resolve 10 and crusader abilities, and just keeping Bulwark of defence to be a pain to the enemy who are most likely single creatures, ground based. If they're climbers, Bulwark of defence might annoy them but standstill certainly will. Probably going for Iron Guards Glare for my stance to give everyone a nice extra bit of AC vs the average +17 bruiser attack bonus of CR 10.

Thanks alot for your help guys, I hope this party is as good as it can be.

EDIT: Dropped out of K o/t SS since I already get full base attack and saves and better skills, and K o/t SS only gives abilities if I pick a patron vestige, which limits my versatility.