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PrGo
2011-01-23, 11:13 PM
I'll soon hit lvl 2 Warshaper with my changeling. The +4 to constitution and strength will be on always for obvious reasons. The question is now, will the new constitution score give me extra health for previous levels too, or just for levels I get since I've gotten it?

Thanks in advance! :smallbiggrin:

Keld Denar
2011-01-23, 11:19 PM
Changes in constitution always result in a change in HP totals.


If a character’s Constitution score changes enough to alter his or her Constitution modifier, the character’s hit points also increase or decrease accordingly.

Citation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#constitutionCon)

PrGo
2011-01-23, 11:25 PM
Thanks a lot :smallbiggrin:

PrGo
2011-01-24, 11:19 AM
Although, this was explained, my DM still insists that it doesn't add up retroactively. So if anyone can say more on this matter, I'd like that :smalltongue:

DeltaEmil
2011-01-24, 11:52 AM
Page 58 in the Player's Handbook 3.5, on Ability Score.


4. Ability Score: If your character has just attained 4th, 8th, 12th,
16th, or 20th character level, choose one of his or her ability scores
and raise it by 1 point. (It’s okay for a score to go above 18.) It’s the
overall character level, not the class level, that counts for this
adjustment.
If your character’s Constitution modifier increases by 1 (see Table
1–1: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells, page 8), add +1 to his or her
hit point total for every character level below the one just attained.
For example, if you raise your character’s Constitution from 11 to 12
at 4th level, he or she gets +3 hit points (one each for 1st, 2nd, and
3rd levels). Add these points before rolling for hit points (the next
step).

MrRigger
2011-01-24, 11:55 AM
Yes, HP from Constitution increases are retroactive. It works on the same principle that makes Constitution drain and damage so bad, where if your Constitution goes down, you lose corresponding HP.

MrRigger

AdalKar
2011-01-24, 12:00 PM
If it wouldn't add up retroactively then it would be pretty pointless except for Fortitude Saves, Con checks and the like (or AC if you are a Fist of the Forest or something like it).
If your character wouldn't always be shaped (if it was a druid or a wizard), then they would only gain the bonuses to concentration checks and Fortitude... It just should add up retroactively for the time you are in another form for something like "temporary HP" and since you are always in another form, lucky you :smallwink:

But this is just me thinking a bit, but the RAW was already posted and if your DM doesn't go by this, then he activated rule 0, which is fine. Maybe he did it to balance things out between you, the rest of the group and the encounters. :smallsmile:

Greenish
2011-01-24, 12:06 PM
But this is just me thinking a bit, but the RAW was already posted and if your DM doesn't go by this, then he activated rule 0, which is fine.Well, it kind of sucks for melee characters. HP already scales slower than damage, and if you can't even boost it with items, buffs or level ups…

There's an exception where change in con score doesn't change your max hp total: alternate form, and thus wildshape.

Keld Denar
2011-01-24, 12:12 PM
How about talking about Barbarian Rage?


A barbarian can fly into a rage a certain number of times per day. In a rage, a barbarian temporarily gains a +4 bonus to Strength, a +4 bonus to Constitution, and a +2 morale bonus on Will saves, but he takes a -2 penalty to Armor Class. The increase in Constitution increases the barbarian’s hit points by 2 points per level, but these hit points go away at the end of the rage when his Constitution score drops back to normal. (These extra hit points are not lost first the way temporary hit points are.)

Bolded for emphasis. Its that way for ALL changes in Con score, not just rage. Rage is simply an example of the rules following the rules.

Waker
2011-01-24, 12:15 PM
Though I don't think the discussion will swing this way, I'll still make mention that while changes to Constitution do affect HP retroactively, the same is not true for Intelligence and skill points.

Coidzor
2011-01-24, 12:15 PM
But this is just me thinking a bit, but the RAW was already posted and if your DM doesn't go by this, then he activated rule 0, which is fine. Maybe he did it to balance things out between you, the rest of the group and the encounters. :smallsmile:

More likely he's misremembering things and didn't bother to check it himself and thus doesn't think he's houseruling.

And I can't even begin to imagine how someone could see it as balancing.

AdalKar
2011-01-24, 12:28 PM
Well, it kind of sucks for melee characters. HP already scales slower than damage, and if you can't even boost it with items, buffs or level ups…

There's an exception where change in con score doesn't change your max hp total: alternate form, and thus wildshape.

I only said that he may be using rule 0 to balance it (not in all groups are optimizing players and I am in more than one group where monks are as good as barbarians and wizards only blast and don't have any usefull spells after like 4 hours ingame :smallsigh: ) and maybe in this group a +4 to CON actually would be making things imbalanced. Also, maybe the DM doesn't let the +4 CON from this ability affect the HP retroactively but items and level ups do it just fine?
I don't know, I just suggested it and I never thought about the DM misremembering rules because I am kind of the rules lawyer of my gaming groups :smallredface:

Czin
2011-01-24, 01:00 PM
More likely he's misremembering things and didn't bother to check it himself and thus doesn't think he's houseruling.

And I can't even begin to imagine how someone could see it as balancing.

I think he's confusing int increases and skills (which are not retroactive) for con increases and hp (which as stated before are retroactive.)