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View Full Version : Defense Bonuses: Any Advice on How To Implement Them?



wayfare
2011-01-24, 12:59 PM
I'm working on a rather substantial alteration of 3.5 for a lower magic setting of mine, and I'm considering implementing defense bonuses as part of the system. Armor would supplement defense bonuses, but it wouldn't be as potent as it is now (the unearthe arcana version of armor ac/dr, essentially).

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone had advice on how to implement defense bonuses. Experience from other games is welcome.

My initial thoughts are to make Def bonuses follow the Save Pattern:

Good Def Bonus caps at +12
Average +9 (not part of standard d&d, but logical enough)
Poor +6

Eldariel
2011-01-24, 01:03 PM
I'm working on a rather substantial alteration of 3.5 for a lower magic setting of mine, and I'm considering implementing defense bonuses as part of the system. Armor would supplement defense bonuses, but it wouldn't be as potent as it is now (the unearthe arcana version of armor ac/dr, essentially).

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone had advice on how to implement defense bonuses. Experience from other games is welcome.

My initial thoughts are to make Def bonuses follow the Save Pattern:

Good Def Bonus caps at +12
Average +9 (not part of standard d&d, but logical enough)
Poor +6

You could make defenses follow BAB progressions but just applied differently (e.g. defensively fighting classes like Rogue or Monk obviously should have full Defense Bonus while more reckless type like Barbarian should probably have medium defense bonus). Or halves of them; currently I'm playing a low-magic game (there's a journal in my signature that also covers most of the rules alterations we've done to make things work) where everyone (casters don't exist so everyone is a warrior of some sort) has ½ their level as bonus to AC. If you also split Armor-bonus into Armor+DR á LA Unearthed Arcana, full level into AC becomes very reasonable to match the BAB growth.

wayfare
2011-01-25, 04:34 PM
My worrk when making Defense bonus = to level is that many characters will be untouchable by lower attack bonus classes. I'm not certain this is a terribly valid concern, as I've never really used defense bonuses. If one of those people who is great at math could giev a complelling explaination either way, taht would be great.

Any other suggestions?

Also, a few questions:

Should defense bonuses remain acive while the character is flat-footed?

Which classes should get which defense bonuses. My thoughts:

Fighter: Good or Average
Rogue: Good
Monk: Good
Ranger: Good
Paladin: Average (but divine favor will probably modify defense as well)
Cleric: Poor
Wizard: Poor

Eldariel
2011-01-25, 04:54 PM
My worrk when making Defense bonus = to level is that many characters will be untouchable by lower attack bonus classes. I'm not certain this is a terribly valid concern, as I've never really used defense bonuses. If one of those people who is great at math could giev a complelling explaination either way, taht would be great.

Armor + Dex caps out. Depending on how exactly you rework the cap, it varies, but generally, with a Tower Shield, you'll end up at AC 23 max by the default rules. Level 1 characters can easily have +5-6 to hit and then you can add Mw. weapons, and the fact that Dex can't really scale your AC any higher while Strength can increase your To Hit and you end up.

Provided you alter the stat accumulation rate by level to account for the lack of magic items (good idea in my experience), you'll end up with rather high non-BAB related scaling. Any classes with weaker BAB (except the Monk which is just poor) tend to be able to scale their To Hit through other means, or are expected to fight at notable To Hit advantage anyways (Rogue, who's flanking or flat-footing opponents).

Of course, with armor as written, I suggest the ½ Level accumulation for AC or your save-based system. But if the default AC you can reach drops to e.g. 16, suddenly looking at AC/Level merely allows you to maintain 50% miss chance with maxed out gear against an opponent that doesn't focus on hitting.


Any other suggestions?

Well, here's the house rules I use (mostly due to the fact that people who don't get magic items do everything with feats & skills instead of skipping entire skills with single magic items):
- 2 feats 1st level and 1 feat on 2nd level and every 2 levels thereafter (we also have bonus Regional feats and stuff like that but that needn't apply).
- 6-8 extra skill points per level for all classes
- +1 to one stat every level (you may not increase the same stat more than twice every 5 levels tho) and +1 to all stats every 5 levels
- Reworked poison system
- More non-magical weapon/armor craft styles, levels and overall, more different options in craftsmanship
- Use primarily ToB-classes with reworks for the PHB classes not covered in Tome of Battle


Craftsmanship since there's nothing inherently magical about being able to crit more often with a certain type of a weapon, for example; Keen weapon can easily be non-magical.

And Tome of Battle use simply because it makes combat more interesting when people have options beyond "attack". Without magic, things can get mechanically uninteresting otherwise. Note that we of course banned every caster class and reworked half-casters into not having spells or supernatural abilities.


Also, a few questions:

Should defense bonuses remain acive while the character is flat-footed?

I think so; otherwise making somebody flat-footed quickly becomes an automatic hit and I don't like surprise or winning Initiative giving even more advantage than it already does. Experienced people are faster to react to even unforeseen attacks, after all. Comes with experience.


Which classes should get which defense bonuses. My thoughts:

Fighter: Good or Average
Rogue: Good
Monk: Good
Ranger: Good
Paladin: Average (but divine favor will probably modify defense as well)
Cleric: Poor
Wizard: Poor

Fighter good; they need it. Fighting is their whole shtick. Cleric prolly average. Barbarian prolly average. Though I wouldn't use Clerics, Wizards and company; they're so unbelievably strong when others don't have magic items to replicate any of their tricks.