PDA

View Full Version : Need advice on a monster character



Hawkflight
2011-01-24, 02:54 PM
Hello everyone. I'm a big fan of monster characters, and recently I've started fiddling around with an awakened half-dragon dire ape. I could use some advice on what classes to use for this guy. I understand he can't start taking class levels until level 9, but I do enjoy the 30 Strength (somewhat mitigating his lack of BAB) and his 360 lbs huge heavy fullblade (4d8+20 dmg per hit plz), and his ability to breathe laser beams (6d10 every d4+1 rounds). So does anyone have any advice on how I can progress this character? I was thinking Barbarian or Fighter, but it occurs to me maybe some Crusader or Swordsage levels would be helpful as well.

notagain111
2011-01-24, 05:18 PM
Depends entirely on what sort of concept you have for him, but probably some sort of melee beast would work best with that ridiculous strength..

Hawkflight
2011-01-24, 08:00 PM
Well, obviously. But which class do I choose? I could choose a fighter, to get the extra feats I may have missed out on. Or I could go Barbarian, which can be strong, or something else. I was thinking of going into the Frenzied Berserker PrC, but the Kensai looks awfully tempting.

Gorgondantess
2011-01-24, 08:05 PM
Well, obviously. But which class do I choose? I could choose a fighter, to get the extra feats I may have missed out on. Or I could go Barbarian, which can be strong, or something else. I was thinking of going into the Frenzied Berserker PrC, but the Kensai looks awfully tempting.

Tome of battle. All other classes count as 1/2 levels for the purposes of initiator level, so you could grab a 1 level dip in warblade and have ironheart surge right there. Then a dip in greater lion totem barbarian and you're pretty much set.:smallbiggrin:

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-01-24, 08:07 PM
Half-Dragon is an inherited template, any creature that has it was born with it, and it changes the creature's type to dragon. Awaken can only be cast on animals, not dragons, and not dragon-creature-type-whose-parent-was-an-animal.

Hawkflight
2011-01-24, 09:01 PM
All other classes count as 1/2 levels for the purposes of initiator level, so you could grab a 1 level dip in warblade and have ironheart surge right there.

Not really, no. Ironheart Sure is a 3rd level maneuver, and monster levels don't count.


Half-Dragon is an inherited template, any creature that has it was born with it, and it changes the creature's type to dragon. Awaken can only be cast on animals, not dragons, and not dragon-creature-type-whose-parent-was-an-animal.

Point. But either way, the half-dragon template grants +2 to Int, putting it up above the minimum of 3.


Also, quick question. Why in blazes would I choose a fullblade or a sugliin over a bastard sword, when the latter deals the same damage and doesn't require a special feat to use?

Urpriest
2011-01-24, 10:00 PM
What level adjustment are you using for Awakened Dire Ape?

Also, of course "monster levels" count as 1/2 IL, you get 1/2 IL for each character level, i.e. hit die.

Hawkflight
2011-01-24, 10:13 PM
I'm basing it off the sample LA for Ogre from Savage Progressions, and calling +2 LA. Plus the 5 hit dice, which give feats and such, and the +3 LA from Half-Dragon, ends with an LA of +5 and 5 hit dice. (Though I hear there's a way to disregard those hit dice in favor of class levels, or something? Or did I misread?)

CycloneJoker
2011-01-24, 10:15 PM
Somewhat off-topic, but why would a GOOD (Only gold, silver, and bronze get alternate form) powerful creature turn into a REGULAR ape (can turn into a medium or smaller) just to bone a huge monkey?

Hawkflight
2011-01-24, 10:42 PM
Somewhat off-topic, but why would a GOOD (Only gold, silver, and bronze get alternate form) powerful creature turn into a REGULAR ape (can turn into a medium or smaller) just to bone a huge monkey?

Well, it coulda been love. If it was an awakened dire ape. (Even if the descendants aren't awakened.)

Also, it need not be good. Half-dragons come in all colors.

Urpriest
2011-01-24, 10:53 PM
I'm basing it off the sample LA for Ogre from Savage Progressions, and calling +2 LA. Plus the 5 hit dice, which give feats and such, and the +3 LA from Half-Dragon, ends with an LA of +5 and 5 hit dice. (Though I hear there's a way to disregard those hit dice in favor of class levels, or something? Or did I misread?)

There is a way to disregard them, but it's mega-cheesy. Basically you level drain them away with a wight or something, then go take your regular levels.

+2 seems like a balanced enough choice for what it's worth. As for the warblade dip, before class levels you have 5 hit dice, so IL 2. So you'd need three levels of warblade or three levels of something else and one level of warblade to get Iron Heart Surge. Still wouldn't be a bad direction to take the character.

ShneekeyTheLost
2011-01-24, 10:58 PM
If you are already of a Large size, you may gain benefit from War Hulk. Eventually, you get to attack everything in melee reach as an attack action. It gains no BAB, but you can fix this with a +1 equivalent enhancement.

Although, if you do that, getting EWP: Spiked Chain and going Trip Monster would be a viable option. Of course, Spiked Chain is a 2h weapon, so Shock Trooper/Leap Attack is also perfectly viable. May want a couple of Fighter levels for feats. Or better still, PsiWar, so you can take Expansion.

Hawkflight
2011-01-24, 11:36 PM
+2 seems like a balanced enough choice for what it's worth. As for the warblade dip, before class levels you have 5 hit dice, so IL 2. So you'd need three levels of warblade or three levels of something else and one level of warblade to get Iron Heart Surge. Still wouldn't be a bad direction to take the character.

So why is Iron Heart Surge so good here, anyways? What does it do?


If you are already of a Large size, you may gain benefit from War Hulk. Eventually, you get to attack everything in melee reach as an attack action. It gains no BAB, but you can fix this with a +1 equivalent enhancement.

Although, if you do that, getting EWP: Spiked Chain and going Trip Monster would be a viable option. Of course, Spiked Chain is a 2h weapon, so Shock Trooper/Leap Attack is also perfectly viable. May want a couple of Fighter levels for feats. Or better still, PsiWar, so you can take Expansion.

What is War Hulk? As for Spiked Chain, well I was kind of attached to my [email protected]$$ blade.

Runestar
2011-01-24, 11:39 PM
What level adjustment are you using for Awakened Dire Ape?

Also, of course "monster levels" count as 1/2 IL, you get 1/2 IL for each character level, i.e. hit die.

Shouldn't be more than +2LA, given the generous guidelines used for the various anthropomorphic animals in savage species (and they even get monstrous humanoid HD on top of this!). :smallcool:

Hawkflight
2011-01-24, 11:39 PM
FYI, I worked out the base creature. Tell me if anything's off. http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Dire_Half-Dragon_Ape_%283.5e_Creature%29

Scarlet-Devil
2011-01-24, 11:42 PM
Somewhat off-topic, but why would a GOOD (Only gold, silver, and bronze get alternate form) powerful creature turn into a REGULAR ape (can turn into a medium or smaller) just to bone a huge monkey?

Hey man, dragons have a lot of time on their hands, y'know? :smallredface:

CycloneJoker
2011-01-24, 11:55 PM
Hey man, dragons have a lot of time on their hands, y'know? :smallredface:

Pass the brain bleach, please.

Crossblade
2011-01-25, 02:49 AM
Pass the brain bleach, please.

You asked for it, and Scarlet-Devil put it a lot more tastefully than it could have been.

Urpriest
2011-01-25, 12:11 PM
So why is Iron Heart Surge so good here, anyways? What does it do?


Iron Heart surge is a standard action to remove some negative effect on you. As such it is very versatile. And under silly interpretations you can use it to end the sun.

Hawkflight
2011-01-25, 10:05 PM
Hmmm ... just a thought, but could I go straight from monster levels into Kensai? That wouls also mean my first three feats are already chosen, the two prereqs for Kensai and Dragon Breath (because 6d8 once per 1d4+1 rounds is beast).

Urpriest
2011-01-25, 10:14 PM
Hmmm ... just a thought, but could I go straight from monster levels into Kensai? That wouls also mean my first three feats are already chosen, the two prereqs for Kensai and Dragon Breath (because 6d8 once per 1d4+1 rounds is beast).

I'm pretty sure at least some of the Kensai prereq skills aren't class skills for Dire Apes, so you wouldn't be able to get in that early unfortunately. You'd need a level in something that gave those as class skills.

CycloneJoker
2011-01-25, 10:18 PM
You asked for it, and Scarlet-Devil put it a lot more tastefully than it could have been.

As true as that is, it does not affect my need for brain bleach. Preferably REALLY strong. As in Romulan Ale in comparison to a cheap beer strong.

flabort
2011-01-25, 10:29 PM
You want that as DWARVEN Romulan Ale compared to HUMAN, or ELFIN cheap beer, right? for comparison reasons.

As it happens, I keep a large jug of that quality around somewhe--:smalleek:
Oh. seems I've already used the last of it. After the deal with the half-dragon mind flayers... I think it's about time to alchemize some more.

What? brain bleach THAT strong is just as hard to make as gold from lead. I NEED alchemy for that. I think I need to turn it up to 11, too.

CycloneJoker
2011-01-25, 11:45 PM
You want that as DWARVEN Romulan Ale compared to HUMAN, or ELFIN cheap beer, right? for comparison reasons.

As it happens, I keep a large jug of that quality around somewhe--:smalleek:
Oh. seems I've already used the last of it. After the deal with the half-dragon mind flayers... I think it's about time to alchemize some more.

What? brain bleach THAT strong is just as hard to make as gold from lead. I NEED alchemy for that. I think I need to turn it up to 11, too.

Now you've done it. Star Trek=/=D&D, and the awesomeness combined has broken my brain. And I still need bleach.

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play mmakes Jack a dull boy
All work and no PLay ma es Jack a dull boy

ShneekeyTheLost
2011-01-26, 12:20 AM
What is War Hulk? As for Spiked Chain, well I was kind of attached to my [email protected]$$ blade.

It's almost at the end of here, but in brief:

+2 *stacking* strength bonus *EVERY LEVEL*. You want a Strength of 50+? Here you go.

*Mighty Swing* hits multiple opponents at level 4. Capstone at level 10 hits ALL opponents you can reach. Which is why you want a reach weapon like a Spiked Chain, because it further increases the number of things you can kill in one round.

Stacking Massive Swing with the crusader 1 stance that heals 2hp per attack against an opponent + swarm of mooks = plenty of healing.

Just make sure you put Skillful on a weapon, note the lack of BAB advancement. So with Skillful, you have effective 3/4 BAB over all your HD, regardless. Which negates that disadvantage of the PrC. But you still get the +2 Strength that stacks with itself and eveything else that you get every level. That's effectively +1 to attack and +1.5 to damage per level.

Hawkflight
2011-01-26, 02:41 AM
Mmmm ... I'm still not sure about the War Hulk. +2 Strength per level is full of win and all, but at level 2 a Kensai can get a temporary +8 to Strength. It's just temporary, this is true, but it only needs to be. And the War Hulk's other abilities do nothing for him. And Mighty Swing doesn't do anything Great Cleave doesn't already have a good chance of doing anyways. Plus, BAB is still important for getting those all-important extra attacks in.

Question: Is there any way to use weapons more than 1 size bigger than you? I know there's Monkey Grip, but that's just one size bigger.

Vknight
2011-01-26, 07:36 AM
Well don't trust Great Cleave it is a trap something that seems good but is actually a waste

Scarlet-Devil
2011-01-26, 11:12 AM
Well don't trust Great Cleave it is a trap something that seems good but is actually a waste

Nonsense; Great Cleave works wonders, though I suppose it depends on the campaign you're in.

flabort
2011-01-26, 03:42 PM
Star Trek=/=D&D

Can't you play a proper crossover yet? :smallbiggrin:

I'm just saying, if the Romulans adopted a dwarf, the result would be pretty strong.

Greenish
2011-01-26, 04:22 PM
Nonsense; Great Cleave works wonders, though I suppose it depends on the campaign you're in.It's a bit too situational for most characters/campaigns. The effect is nice, but burning two feats for it isn't.

So go Revenant Blade and grab it as a bonus feat. :smallbiggrin: