Looking for Advice on a Strange Necromancer

[Yorae]

So, I had this concept for a character that I'd really like to try for, but I'm a .little divided about how it would work.

I want a Neutral Good necromancer.

The personality I have worked out for this guy matches very well with neutral good, but he will be pretty much constantly creating undead. He'll probably be a worshiper of Evening Glory (Libris Mortis, pg. 17 - the deathless beauty, deity of eternal love). The character doesn't view undead or the creation thereof as evil -- he sees it as a prized gift that can be given to bestow neverending (un)life.

I can just see this guy witnessing some poor sap that has suffered a horrible accident, arriving too late to help him deal with his injuries... so he raises him as an undead. In this guy's view, not only did he help the guy enormously, but he made him better. To him, it's a selfless act of goodness and caring. However, the torch-and-pitchfork-wielding populous of the town don't see it that way. However, since they are basically good folk who just don't understand, the character refuses to harm any of them, necessitating a run for his life.

Can this guy be Neutral Good?
What about the rare good-aligned undead, like the Deathless? Do you think this guy could create positive energy undead? Would it matter?

Basing this loosely on an old freeform RP character I had... had had a little bone puppy that followed him around -- it was adorable. Any way he could obtain some kind of undead familiar or the like to sort of replicate that?

Finally, what are some good build ideas for a strong, effective necromancer? I was thinking either Cleric or Dread Necromancer, but I'm really not sure. What about PrCs? Feats? Would probably have to ignore alignment restrictions on a lot of these as well, given the character.

I thought about him possibly growing bitter after having so many people revile him as something abhorent and evil, maybe picking up a more martial class, possibly a flavor-tweaked Ruby Knight Vindicator? Not sure there, though, since I'm not sure I want this guy to be a Gish, since I'm afraid it would put too much of a hurt on his undeath-based abilities.

Any advice welcome.

Thanks!

Edit: Forgot to mention, 3.5E

[Benly]

Oh man. I hate to toot my own horn, but guess what I made (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9994058&postcount=14) for the last homebrew PrC contest?

If you're not comfortable with homebrew, you'll have a tougher row to hoe. RAW, creating any undead is an evil act because every spell that does it has the evil descriptor. As I recall, deathless can only be created canonically via the spells Create Deathless (level 6) and Create Greater Deathless (level 8), only available via the Deathless domain. You can do a good-aligned RAW necromancer, but you're not going to be playing with undead minions - it'll be more energy drain, fear, and debuffs.

Houserules can land you anywhere in the middle.

[Yorae]

I was thinking we might be able to houserule away the evil descriptor. This guy is really meant to work with undead a great deal.

Pretty awesome homebrew!

I'd like to know what I can do with WotC materials, though.

[Scarlet-Devil]

Houseruling away the descriptor might be a good idea, yeah. Alignment has a lot to do with intention; in this case, the necromancer sees his magic as a way to bring people 'back to life', he isn't animating or enslaving the dead to create a host of obedient servants like most necromancers. If a cleric can do it, why not a necromancer? (I guess.)

[SiuiS]

You have several, viable options.
The first and easiest, is to play the character as is, except "research" a "variant" of create undead that does the exact same thing, only the spell has the [good] descriptor and creates deathless. Tell the DM that all he is agreeing to is that the undead you create won't automatically become evil. Done. Point out that mornin glory is a good god (or at least not evil) and that an undead creature stops it's resurrect count; a man who has been dead for two days, and a zombie for five hundred years, can be resurrected as if he has only been dead for two days! You could attach a cloak, bag of gold and a note, and have the zombie walk to a church for a res. It's hilarious!

Number two, you can play a tragic character who thinks he's doing good, but is still creating evil abominations. There is a feat, perceived honor, which affects honor. There is a footnote however, that tells you how to convert it to an alignment system- the gist is, you can get the feat twice. You can "shift" your alignment one step (good to neutral to evil, or chaos to neutral to law) per feat. And so long as you ACT like the appropriate alignment. It's in Rokugan Campaign Setting, and If you take the feat twice, you can act Neutral Evil (animating the dead) without it actually affecting your alignment.

Third, there is a flaw which I, sadly, cannot find anymore. This isn't WoTC approved, but it gave you a Frankenstein conked wherein you think your actions are Above such petty concepts as morality. It also gives you alignment lee-way, plus a feat! The caveat is that, once per game session, either the DM or a fellow player can call in your flaw, and force you to act it out- so someone can force you to follow your character's convictions in a situation where it would normally be inappropriate. This leads to good role playing though, so think about it.

[Darrin]

Just use Hellbred as the race (Fiendish Codex II). With the Evil Exception (Ex) racial ability, they can cast any [evil] spells or use any [evil] magic items regardless of their alignment.

[Yorae]

Any tips on classes / feats?

How good are plain old clerics at doing this sort of thing? I was considering Cleric/Warlock/Eldritch Disciple.

[Hawkfrost000]

ABHORSEN!

anyone who gets the refrence gets a cookie:smallbiggrin:

"Where others of the Art raise the dead, i lay them down to rest and those that will not rest, i bind. Or try too"

create an obscure sect of necromancers that use necromancy to undo the "wrongs" that other necromancers have done by raising the dead.

[Coidzor]

Have you read K's revised necromancer handbook (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872726/Revised_Necromancer_Handbook)?

[Yorae]

ABHORSEN!

anyone who gets the refrence gets a cookie:smallbiggrin:

"Where others of the Art raise the dead, i lay them down to rest and those that will not rest, i bind. Or try too"

create an obscure sect of necromancers that use necromancy to undo the "wrongs" that other necromancers have done by raising the dead.

Well, damn. Now I have to carry around a whole bandolier of bells.

May I humbly request my cookie? =p



Have you read K's revised necromancer handbook?


Just found it, actually... looks very useful!

[Hawkfrost000]

Sure! *gives cookie*

and it doesnt have to be bells, although that would be cool for a bard/necromancer multiclass

DM

[begooler]

The first and easiest, is to play the character as is, except "research" a "variant" of create undead that does the exact same thing, only the spell has the [good] descriptor and creates deathless.

Great idea as a wizard, you can research and develop your own spells. I think this is a great way to get around the evil descriptor without just saying "aw heck houserule it out." Make your own animate dead spells.

I think what would be an important thing for your character to have is a focus on speak with dead, and maybe other types of divination to find out the dead's intention before you reanimate them.

Another thing that can go along with you good flavor is that many necromancy debuffs are nonlethal... you could go around draining dex and strength and then tie the bad guys up.

There a feat for a 'stitched flesh familiar' in Libris Mortis on pg 30. Will that work for your puppy?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Just saying... Dread Necromancer pretty much fits the bill, if you drop a feat on Arcane Disciple for the Deathless domain, and has no alignment restrictions...

Then you can go Rainbow Servant for WTFPWNtasticalness.

[Coidzor]

Oh, that reminds me. This PRC, the redeemer of regrets, (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9994058&postcount=14) might of interest to you, from a Good-aligned/holy PRCs contest, I believe.

[Runestar]

A group of good-aligned undead sounds like a most interesting party. Just imagine, traditional foes like medusae would pose no threat at all! :smallamused:

[Ranielle]

The Tome of Necromancy is a must read when it comes to moral decisions like this. Too bad my google skills suck so I can't find it.

On the good-undead party idea: it rocks. Instead of only evil enemies you'd also have to fight good adventuring parties, paladins, law enforcement and so on.

[Lord Vampyre]

Houseruling away the descriptor might be a good idea, yeah. Alignment has a lot to do with intention; in this case, the necromancer sees his magic as a way to bring people 'back to life', he isn't animating or enslaving the dead to create a host of obedient servants like most necromancers. If a cleric can do it, why not a necromancer? (I guess.)

Haven't you ever heard of the concept that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. People can do irrevocable harm/evil with nothing but good intentions guiding them. Although I love the idea of a good aligned necromancer, I have to point out that just because the character believes he is doing them a favor, doesn't make the act a good act.

If the character really had their best interest at heart he would simply raise them from the dead, instead of turning them into an undead monster.

Now, if you look at the Dread Necromancer, the reason they give for it not being able to actually reach the good alignment is that the "good" ones constantly use evil acts in pursuit of a good cause. And by "evil" acts, the book is referring to their creation of undead.

But then again, this simply starts boiling down to a debate on morality, and you are free to put your own spin on the morality of turning something into an undead monster.

[Coidzor]

The Tome of Necromancy is a must read when it comes to moral decisions like this. Too bad my google skills suck so I can't find it.

Silly me, I only gave the Revised Necromancer Handbook myself.

Tome of Necromancy on WOTC. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19527634/Tome_of_Necromancy)


On the good-undead party idea: it rocks. Instead of only evil enemies you'd also have to fight good adventuring parties, paladins, law enforcement and so on.

heh. that does seem like it could be fun. A good skulking in the shadows with secret identities when going into civilization sort of thing...