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Goonthegoof
2011-01-24, 10:01 PM
I'm planning to make a ghost barbarian (it's gestalt, so a bunch of evolved undead on one side and ghost on the other) and how their incorporeality works is really confusing me. I think I understand manifestation properly, but when they are incorporeal do they have a strength score?
Also evolved undead grants +1 NA or +1 deflection is the undead is incorporeal. Does that mean I'd get +1 NA normally but when I manifest it becomes a deflection bonus?

Also does anyone know of a template that makes you an incorporeal undead? Being physical on the ethereal plain really annoys me.

Shade Kerrin
2011-01-24, 11:40 PM
Ghostwalk, a product made late enough in 3.0 that they simply errata'd it up.

It was designed specifically for playing ghost PCs.
Downside is the convoluted structure of the book itself.

Edit: Downside for you would be that the template is Incorporeal Outsider,(homeplane:afterlife) so would probably not be compatible with Evolved Undead

ericgrau
2011-01-25, 12:51 AM
...
Hit Dice
All current and future Hit Dice become d12s.
...
Attack
A ghost retains all the attacks of the base creature, although those relying on physical contact do not affect creatures that are not ethereal.
...
Damage
Against ethereal creatures, a ghost uses the base creature’s damage values. Against nonethereal creatures, the ghost usually cannot deal physical damage at all but can use its special attacks, if any, when it manifests (see below).


Ghosts aren't very barbarian friendly. You might want to try somethign with a decent charisma and maybe a good dex. Unless the campaign does a lot on the ethereal plane.

Goonthegoof
2011-01-25, 01:47 AM
This is not an optimisation thing, mostly because my plan is to manifest and smack things in the face with a thunderlance.
This is a 'how do I become an incorporeal undead, similar to a spectre or wraith' thing. Ghost seems fun, but the still having a body on the ethereal plane part really annoys me. Are there any undead alternatives?

Coidzor
2011-01-25, 07:48 AM
Huh. Would've sworn ghosts use CHA for their to-hit while manifesting and strength to-hit while on the ethereal plane...:smallconfused: Can't seem to find it though.

Goonthegoof
2011-01-25, 08:13 AM
Dex and strength respectively. Come on, there has to be another incorporeal undead I can play out there somewhere. Anyone know?

Coidzor
2011-01-25, 08:17 AM
Dex and strength respectively. Come on, there has to be another incorporeal undead out there somewhere. Anyone know?

There's an incorporeal deathless in the BoED, IIRC. Most incorporeal undead other than ghosts have the nasty habit of being unplayable by virtue of insanity or lacking personality.

This should be of interest to you though. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20070622a)

Jack_Simth
2011-01-25, 08:27 AM
Dex and strength respectively. Come on, there has to be another incorporeal undead I can play out there somewhere. Anyone know?
Savage Species makes several other types of incorporeal undead playable.

I always wanted the Ghost for the Rejuvination...


There's an incorporeal deathless in the BoED, IIRC. Yes. But it's just another ghost....

Goonthegoof
2011-01-25, 08:40 AM
There's an incorporeal deathless in the BoED, IIRC. Most incorporeal undead other than ghosts have the nasty habit of being unplayable by virtue of insanity or lacking personality.

This should be of interest to you though. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20070622a)

THANK YOU. I did some research, and spectral mage doesn't have a LA and only works for arcanists. It did however lead me straight to the spectral template from savage species, which is exactly what I was looking for. LA seems a bit high, but I'm sure I'll get over it.

Edit: Though being powerless in sunlight sucks. If I cover myself in a darkness spell or a cloud of smoke or something does that get rid of the sunlight powerlessness?

Darrin
2011-01-25, 08:50 AM
This is not an optimisation thing, mostly because my plan is to manifest and smack things in the face with a thunderlance.


"Manifest" is a consequence of existing on the ethereal plane. If you become incorporeal without becoming a ghost, you don't need to manifest. Incorporeal undead are already on the material plane.



This is a 'how do I become an incorporeal undead, similar to a spectre or wraith' thing. Ghost seems fun, but the still having a body on the ethereal plane part really annoys me. Are there any undead alternatives?

Savage Species has the Spectral and Wraith templates. You "lose all attacks" and get an energy drain or constitution drain attack that can only be used once per round. Not sure if Thunderlance would still work.

There's also the Umbral template, also in Savage Species but updated in Libris Mortis (humanoid type was removed, since they become Shadows per MM p. 221). However, the Libris Mortis version reduces your BAB to 1/2 HD and replaces all your attacks with a 1/round incorporeal touch attack.

Here's an odd one in Unapproachable East: Telthor. Fey (Incorporeal), bound to protect the land of Rashemen, but you may be able to refluff it.

Goonthegoof
2011-01-25, 09:04 AM
"Manifest" is a consequence of existing on the ethereal plane. If you become incorporeal without becoming a ghost, you don't need to manifest. Incorporeal undead are already on the material plane.


I know that, sorry I worded it incorrectly.



Savage Species has the Spectral and Wraith templates. You "lose all attacks" and get an energy drain or constitution drain attack that can only be used once per round. Not sure if Thunderlance would still work.

Spectral and Wraith seem pretty much identical, but I think the bit about 'losing all attacks' refers to natural weapons, considering it's in the 'Attacks:' part of the description, which is the part in every other template that describes the changes to the creatures natural weapons made by the template.



There's also the Umbral template, also in Savage Species but updated in Libris Mortis (humanoid type was removed, since they become Shadows per MM p. 221). However, the Libris Mortis version reduces your BAB to 1/2 HD and replaces all your attacks with a 1/round incorporeal touch attack.


Unfortunately it doesn't have a level adustment D=


Here's an odd one in Unapproachable East: Telthor. Fey (Incorporeal), bound to protect the land of Rashemen, but you may be able to refluff it.

Wouldn't have thought Telthor were fey considering it's pretty clear that they become that way after they die. Odd but interesting, thank you.