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Doomboy911
2011-01-24, 10:33 PM
Never underestimate a low level spell and some decent tools. In the next few days I'll be blowing up some trucks with a corkscrew a ring of invisibilty a cork and a 0 level spell. I put a hole in each of the trucks than cork them all than use the spell spark to light each of the corks which burn the fuel and blow them up. So I'm wondering what little tricks have you pulled off with low level spells.

Endarire
2011-01-24, 10:41 PM
Consider how much trouble ghost sound, charm person, or silent image can cause, especially in an unsuspecting society.

ericgrau
2011-01-24, 10:49 PM
^ Ya



Never underestimate a low level spell and some decent tools. In the next few days I'll be blowing up some trucks with a corkscrew a ring of invisibilty a cork and a 0 level spell. I put a hole in each of the trucks than cork them all than use the spell spark to light each of the corks which burn the fuel and blow them up. So I'm wondering what little tricks have you pulled off with low level spells.

Not really. If you could arsonists would be doing this all the time with lighters. Alas such things only work in the movies. Corkscrew won't penetrate steel, even gasoline won't light so easily, though vapors would after a few tries. Even once you do light it, it won't burn without plenty of air. Instead only what soaked into the cork will burn. Congrats you made a candle/uncovered lantern.

Doomboy911
2011-01-25, 06:40 AM
Than I can just use the spell to target the gas itself. Gasoline is flammable and it never mentioned that I need to see what I'm lighting.

Cyrion
2011-01-25, 10:15 AM
Most spells require line of effect, which can be blocked by solid obstacles, so your DM is probably going to rule that, yes, you would need to be able to see the fuel in this case, because otherwise the tank is blocking your line of effect for a cantrip.

2xMachina
2011-01-25, 10:18 AM
When there are trucks, spells are kinda out of place.

Psyren
2011-01-25, 10:26 AM
You can block Disjunction with a 2nd-level spell :smalltongue:

Powers tend to actually be crazier at this than spells are, thanks to modalities like augmentation. For instance, Time Stop and Mind Blank are 6th-level for a Psion, Dominate Monster is technically 4th-level, and True Seeing is 5th.

Erom
2011-01-25, 10:27 AM
Truck gas tanks are usually pretty rusty. You need more than a corkscrew but I bet you could penetrate them with hand tools. As other have noted though, cork isn't that good a thing to use. Much better to use a cloth in the hole to wick and vaporize some of the gas.

Also, however, it's worth noting that gas tanks don't explode like that - they burn, energetically, but there is very little *explosion* involved.

ericgrau
2011-01-25, 11:27 AM
Even if you could get fire inside the tank it would only snuff out with insufficient air. Even if the tank wasn't full of fuel vapors the air would only be enough to burn for a second. But ya you could drill a hole, let it leak out, light it and start a good fire. No hollywood explosions but quite an annoying fire, ruined rubber exhaust hangers (exhaust now scrapes the ground), ruined rear tires, ruined fuel lines, $500-$1,000+ repair job and the truck isn't going anywhere in the meantime. If the fuel flows to the front then kiss half the engine bay goodbye and you might as well total the vehicle b/c of the thousands in repairs of hoses, wires, plastic, belts, etc. Whatever rust you might think the tank has those things need to be tough for decades for safety and you still need a good drill.

Branching out a bit the illusions like those mentioned above are a great way to start rumors and create chaos and panic. Good way to get a good chunk of the town guard / police to move to a certain area.

Chilingsworth
2011-01-25, 11:33 AM
What system is this for, OP? Shadowrun? D20 Modern Urban Arcana?

graeylin
2011-01-25, 03:12 PM
Oh man, you got physics in my Magic.

No, YOU got magic in my physics.

Volthawk
2011-01-25, 03:24 PM
You can block Disjunction with a 2nd-level spell :smalltongue:

Which spell's that? :smallconfused:

Jay R
2011-01-25, 04:01 PM
Never underestimate a low level spell and some decent tools. In the next few days I'll be blowing up some trucks with a corkscrew a ring of invisibilty a cork and a 0 level spell. I put a hole in each of the trucks than cork them all than use the spell spark to light each of the corks which burn the fuel and blow them up. So I'm wondering what little tricks have you pulled off with low level spells.

Don't forget the giant wooden alpaca filled with potato salad.

dextercorvia
2011-01-25, 04:43 PM
Which spell's that? :smallconfused:

I'm guessing Wings of Cover.

Unrest
2011-01-25, 05:09 PM
I love it how people totally omit the question asked by the OP and start RAWing / physicking stuff in the name of forever burying Awesome. GitP ;*

As for McGyverish stuff like this... Fighting in a narrow mine corridor, because those in games / movies ALWAYS have rails for mine-wagons, if there are enemies coming at you, Shocking Grasp the rails. Once downed quite a number of goblins.

You cast darkness at an object, and tie a string to it (preferably in reverse order); then you throw it into a room with enemies, your guys get into positions (nice to know where stuff is in the room), you pull it out by the string, and your people strike. I found it kinda fair for our GM to rule in some bonuses due to completely suprising the enemies. Though I guess there's a lot more shenanigans to do with 2nd level spells. (Though I always thought Darkness to be overleveled.)

Also, a cool usage mentioned in OotS when Roy plays OD&D with his archon.

quiet1mi
2011-01-25, 05:50 PM
Anything that produces a quality effect instead of a quantifiable effect will be a good low level spell.

Remember illusions have to be interacted with for the save to happen, this is at least a standard action of close examination. Otherwise no save. It is not enough to be suspicious of a wall that was not there 5 minutes ago, you have to examine it to see if it is an illusion. Otherwise it is just a wall that appeared out of nowhere... I commonly use silent image to provide foreword scouts with a place to hide, yet be able to see through. When the enemy is on the march, they cannot stop to look for "fake bushes or boulders"...

A lot can be said in 25 words with sending, just think of ways to combine words as part of a code.

Fog blocks all sorts of high level vision spells. Obscuring mist is a LOS blocker that requires a standard action and a spell to get rid of... in a addition, it blocks true sight :)

Do not overlook things that repair objects, mending a 0 level spell could be used to reseal envelopes, as prestidigitation can be used to clean up the scene of a struggle. Dancing lights can provide the mark necessary for an artillery strike as it can be used to communicate in code from far distances away. Dancing lights, done right, can be made to look like torches, and when you are ambushing ambushers who are twitchy, something looking like torches is more than enough.

Darkness on a rock attached to a string is amazing! As is light on a rock attached to a string... Remember without shadows, there is no hide in plain sight, and daylight is more often more than enough to get rid of all the shadows in a room. Speaking of Rocks and string, Alarm is a great spell to ensure that people do not sneak up on you... if they enter the vicinity of the rock the mental alarm goes off.

Welknair
2011-01-25, 06:04 PM
I've had a 10-year-old kid who started at level .25 Wizard (I made a "0-Level Progression" for wizard specifically for this purpose) and he's now up to level .75. He's been kicking but with 0 and 1st level spells, possibly more so than then the group's level 9 wizard who just blows stuff up.

Charm Person, Silent Image and similar control spells are your friend.

quiet1mi
2011-01-25, 06:12 PM
The Kid's imagination is what is more powerful then the 9th level wizard...

Control spells on the right people, makes charm person powerful... protection from X will stop most control spells but choose the right target (one that does not have protection from X) or Dispel magic -> suppress protection...

Remember Charm Person only works on people, not giants... That saved the party when I, the ogre swordsage, was the target of dominate person. The Silly wizard knew that day what it felt like to be a club.

One more thing, Charm person makes them your friend, so +7 diplomacy to that person.... ask only for reasonable things (+0 to +3) and you should be able to get it.

I had a beguiler that had dominate person going on ordinary folk in key occupied towns, I had them do simple things like "forget to Lock a door" or to leave their "trash" out to be "collected"... By Dominating ~20 people in the town for weeks, he was able to gather information, smuggle goods, smuggle people and sabotage basic things (occupying soldiers ate rancid meat and got sick, just in time for a raid on the nearby fortress). The key is subtlety and many cogs in a great machine.

Welknair
2011-01-25, 06:28 PM
If only most players were thoughtful enough to use those tools... Mine all just want to blow stuff up. I think that it's important for a player of a spellcaster to spend at least a little time as the first level of said class to get the feel of what it was like back then. If the level 9 wizard had to go through the period where all she had were those weaker spells, she would learn to put them to greater use.

The kid has done the following things off the top of my head:

Mage Hand on a key so the group could escape a cell
Daze on a cart driver so they could "Borrow" the cart (The kid made sure the driver was compensated afterwards)
He used Stick to attach a squirrel to the pants of a enemy mook, which proceeded to run off in the opposite direction screaming, which consequently distracted all of the other mooks.
Read Magic on some old runes which turned out to be essential to the getting past a trap
Charm Person was used recently to charm a big man right as a bar fight broke out. Said man (having no friends at the bar) decided to protect the kid by generally deciding to punch people that got near him. Given that he was going to punch people anyways, it didn't make much of a difference to him.

And our Wizard just prepares 1d3 damage spells and Light...

cZak
2011-01-25, 06:28 PM
A group of third level characters investigating Dorshak Crane's house completely freaked out when a large, flaming humanoid shape came floating over the stairs at them. :smalleek:

Simple gnome bard with Dancing Lights...:smallwink:

TurtleKing
2011-01-25, 06:32 PM
How about overhealing a person till they explode? Doesn't sound like a tactic unless you sneak it onto them.

Explaination. Using an augmented Lesser Vigor by Augment Healing feat to heal upto 45 hp over 1.5 mins. If overhealing a person till they explode is possible, and Augment Healing does work on fast healing from the Vigor spell line then could pull out some interesting tactics. This also apparently great for battling undead. If this works you can in terms of hp healing out heal spells like Cure Moderate and Cure Serious wounds. Granted it doesn't heal for as much as the others in one go, but can produce at least 3 times as much healing as the competitor of the same spell level.

Welknair
2011-01-25, 06:41 PM
"Hey, you know I appreciate all of the temporary HP, but I'm really starting to feel a little---" *Bewm*

Doomboy911
2011-01-25, 08:31 PM
What system is this for, OP? Shadowrun? D20 Modern Urban Arcana?

Pathfinder

dextercorvia
2011-01-25, 08:41 PM
I had a character in the shop of a "sculpter" who kept a pet Gorgon (this was 2e). My buddy broke down the door that the thing was kept behind and got himself stoned. I through up a Silent Image(Phantasmal Force? What was it called) to cover the door hole. When the shopkeeper came in, I dismissed the spell, and he got his comeuppance.

Chilingsworth
2011-01-25, 10:51 PM
Pathfinder

So... where did the trucks come from? :smallconfused: Serrious homebrew? Not that it couldn't be awesome to d20 Modernize Pathfinder, just asking.

quiet1mi
2011-01-25, 11:29 PM
If only most players were thoughtful enough to use those tools... Mine all just want to blow stuff up. I think that it's important for a player of a spellcaster to spend at least a little time as the first level of said class to get the feel of what it was like back then. If the level 9 wizard had to go through the period where all she had were those weaker spells, she would learn to put them to greater use.

The kid has done the following things off the top of my head:

Mage Hand on a key so the group could escape a cell
Daze on a cart driver so they could "Borrow" the cart (The kid made sure the driver was compensated afterwards)
He used Stick to attach a squirrel to the pants of a enemy mook, which proceeded to run off in the opposite direction screaming, which consequently distracted all of the other mooks.
Read Magic on some old runes which turned out to be essential to the getting past a trap
Charm Person was used recently to charm a big man right as a bar fight broke out. Said man (having no friends at the bar) decided to protect the kid by generally deciding to punch people that got near him. Given that he was going to punch people anyways, it didn't make much of a difference to him.

And our Wizard just prepares 1d3 damage spells and Light...

That Kid is AWESOME!

dextercorvia
2011-01-25, 11:58 PM
That Kid is AWESOME!

I'd like to play in that game.

Doomboy911
2011-01-26, 07:15 AM
So... where did the trucks come from? :smallconfused: Serrious homebrew? Not that it couldn't be awesome to d20 Modernize Pathfinder, just asking.


Pathfinder X-crawl Monster hunters are heading to some primal fey realm collecting creatures from the bestiary 2 for us to fight. I decided to befriend the faeries (because charming wouldn't work on them). The best way to go at that seemed to be to hinder the monster hunters. I figured since I'm a bard and not strong enough to fight them in a fist fight and their mages are better than me I can mess with their trucks.

Chilingsworth
2011-01-26, 07:23 AM
I'd like to play in that game.

+1

Wow! I shudder to think what he'll do when he gets to higher levels... hopefully, the added power wont corrupt him too much.

Welknair
2011-01-26, 09:20 AM
Wizards: Tier 1 before Level 1.

Luckily for the universe, he's NG. But seriously, at the start, he got ONE CANTRIP/day (We're doing 3.5, not Pathfinder). And he still stuck a squirrel to that guard's pants. Wizards are tier one for a reason. A single one of their spells has so many possible applications...

Combat Reflexes
2011-01-26, 09:32 AM
I made a homebrew cantrip once called Summon Monster 0 that let the caster summon small, harmless animals like mice, fish or small birds.

My overcreative players turned it into the poor man's Create Food and Water spell: Summon a chicken, kill, remove the feathers, prepare, cook, and eat it, and all of that in the time of 1 round / level :smallbiggrin:

I love and hate my players.

Doomboy911
2011-01-26, 04:50 PM
Wait you gave them a spell that let them control a mouse? Oh the damage I could deal.

Czin
2011-01-26, 04:55 PM
I made a homebrew cantrip once called Summon Monster 0 that let the caster summon small, harmless animals like mice, fish or small birds.

My overcreative players turned it into the poor man's Create Food and Water spell: Summon a chicken, kill, remove the feathers, prepare, cook, and eat it, and all of that in the time of 1 round / level :smallbiggrin:

I love and hate my players.

The material they would eat from the dead summoned creature would vanish from their digestive systems and reform into a whole (but very confused and frightened) creature once the spell's duration ended. In fact, don't summoned creatures immediately return to where they were summoned from unharmed if they die during the summon's duration?

senrath
2011-01-26, 05:01 PM
Yeah, if a summoned creature is dropped to 0 or lower it get's sent home immediately. If a called creature is dropped to 0 or lower, nothing special happens.

Czin
2011-01-26, 05:03 PM
Yeah, if a summoned creature is dropped to 0 or lower it get's sent home immediately. If a called creature is dropped to 0 or lower, nothing special happens.

Correct, so Combat Reflex's players should have starved to death after the hundredth futile attempt at trying to eat a summoned creature instead of just, gasp; hunting and foraging or shudder; buying food from stores and rationing them out properly.

Now I can't get the hilarious mental image of a adventurer party's dusty skeletons (not the undead kind) being discovered by some commoners who find a journal detailing how they slowly starved to death because they couldn't eat summoned creatures out of my head.

Combat Reflexes
2011-01-26, 05:07 PM
:smalleek: I created a monstrosity: a level 0 (Calling) spell!
*fixfixfix*

~~
Now if you will excuse me, I'm off to tell my players all their characters have just died from starvation.
~~

Could be a great side quest though: You have 3 days to FIND the adventurers and GIVE 'em the food!

Silverlich
2011-01-26, 05:14 PM
If the kid who is being so ingenious with wizard spells can reach high level without losing his awesome, the game should prepare to be broken in half.

Doomboy911
2011-01-26, 10:17 PM
The kid will probably still rely on low level spells. probably break a rod of absorption by hitting it with tons of low level spells to overcharge it.