PDA

View Full Version : Public Reminder



Hanuman
2011-01-25, 05:52 AM
Scintillating Scales Wiz2 > Shivering Touch > Dragons


If you don't want your great wyrms 1 shotted, pack scintillating scales, DMs.

Yora
2011-01-25, 06:07 AM
Or just don't allow shivering touch. It's not just dragons who can be one shotted by it.

Pentachoron
2011-01-25, 06:09 AM
Scintillating Scales Wiz2 > Shivering Touch > Dragons


If you don't want your great wyrms 1 shotted, pack scintillating scales, DMs.

Which book is shivering touch out of? I've heard it referenced before as a dragon killer but haven't been able to find it in any of my books to figure out what it does.

Heliomance
2011-01-25, 06:21 AM
Frostburn. Touch attack, 3d6 Dex damage, no save.

Pentachoron
2011-01-25, 06:27 AM
Frostburn. Touch attack, 3d6 Dex damage, no save.

That would be why, I don't own Frostburn, thanks, and jeez that's just ridiculous, go after the only ability score that a dragon doesn't have raised into the heavens.

Czin
2011-01-25, 06:47 AM
That would be why, I don't own Frostburn, thanks, and jeez that's just ridiculous, go after the only ability score that a dragon doesn't have raised into the heavens.

That is, without the proper boosts and magic items. Five wishes for +5 dexterity, a permananced cat's grace spell for another +4, and a homebrew'd ring that grants +6 dexterity for a total of 25 dexterity, then maybe roll an 18 for it's dexterity to boost that score up eight more points for a dex score of 33, which isn't that bad if I do say so myself.

Heliomance
2011-01-25, 06:50 AM
Cat's grace won't stack with the ring. They're both enhancement bonuses. Also, what dragon ever would pump Dex that much? It's far easier to just become immune to ability damage.

Czin
2011-01-25, 06:52 AM
Cat's grace won't stack with the ring. They're both enhancement bonuses. Also, what dragon ever would pump Dex that much? It's far easier to just become immune to ability damage.

My old DM would make Dragons like that to mix things up. It was quite interesting to fight an extremely agile dragon who could dance around our touch spells with no effort.

Heliomance
2011-01-25, 06:56 AM
Give it a Greater Pectoral of Maneuverability (Dracomnomicon, I think) and a vassal with levels in Dragonrider (Also, Draconomnomnomicon, I think) and it suddenly has good/perfect maneuverability!

Czin
2011-01-25, 06:59 AM
Give it a Greater Pectoral of Maneuverability (Dracomnomicon, I think) and a vassal with levels in Dragonrider (Also, Draconomnomnomicon, I think) and it suddenly has good/perfect maneuverability!

I'd rather give it that feat that improves flight maneuverability than go with the vassal thing, the Greater Pectoral of Maneuverability would remain part of the build though.

Callista
2011-01-25, 08:55 AM
Quite ridiculous, yes. I don't ban it, technically; I just ask for anything non-core to be approved before use. And this is one of the few things I don't approve.

Hanuman
2011-01-25, 10:02 AM
To clarify, scintillating scales turns NA into Deflect, solving the touch problem.

DarkEternal
2011-01-25, 10:43 AM
It's a poorly written spell that should never have been published. Yes, there are worse, sure, but this is sodding level 2 or 3(forgot) spell. You could pump your entire arsenal of spell slots just with this spell.

I banned it personally, because even my players were reasonable enough to see it was an awful, awful spell. Hell, if there was a chance that your spell misfired or something if you held it as a charge and provoked an attack of opportunity when charging the dragon-large beast to touch it(since most such creatures probably have impressive reach), I would allow it, but like this, no. Never.

The Glyphstone
2011-01-25, 10:59 AM
Not to mention things like the debate over whether dragons can be paralyzed by Dex damage, and what the heck Shivering Touch's Duration actually means for the spell...it's a mess, and should really just be ignored for sanity's sake all around.

Keld Denar
2011-01-25, 11:32 AM
Draconomnomnomicon

Yay, I started an internet phenomenon! Hehehehe.

The problem with dargons and Scintilating Scales and whatnot...dargons have catagorically low caster levels. Their CL isn't equal to their HD, its equal to their effective sorcererous casting. Dargon dargon dargon dargon!

Lets look at red dragons, argueably the best casters among evil dragonkind. A CR13 red, the first dargon able to cast Scintilating Scales, has a CL of 5. Yea...5. So, the DC to dispel his Scintilating Scales is 16. If its a REALLY hard right, the PCs are probably all level 9, but more likely 10. Without Arcane Mastery, thats dispels on a roll of 7+, or a 70% chance. With a Dispelling Cord (1000g, MIC), its an 80% chance. With Arcane Mastery, thats a 100% chance to dispel.

It gets worse from there, a CR20 old red is CL11. Thats DC22 vs CL16, again before the CL boosts or other bonuses you'll probably have aquired by that level.

So yea, granted the dragon could just recast it, but thats a whole round he's NOT breathing fire or claw/claw/bite/wing/wing/tail kickin your butt.

Claudius Maximus
2011-01-25, 11:49 AM
See that's why you give a caster dragon Practiced Spellcaster a few times.

Hanuman
2011-01-25, 11:54 AM
Yay, I started an internet phenomenon! Hehehehe.

The problem with dargons and Scintilating Scales and whatnot...dargons have catagorically low caster levels. Their CL isn't equal to their HD, its equal to their effective sorcererous casting. Dargon dargon dargon dargon!

Lets look at red dragons, argueably the best casters among evil dragonkind. A CR13 red, the first dargon able to cast Scintilating Scales, has a CL of 5. Yea...5. So, the DC to dispel his Scintilating Scales is 16. If its a REALLY hard right, the PCs are probably all level 9, but more likely 10. Without Arcane Mastery, thats dispels on a roll of 7+, or a 70% chance. With a Dispelling Cord (1000g, MIC), its an 80% chance. With Arcane Mastery, thats a 100% chance to dispel.

It gets worse from there, a CR20 old red is CL11. Thats DC22 vs CL16, again before the CL boosts or other bonuses you'll probably have aquired by that level.

So yea, granted the dragon could just recast it, but thats a whole round he's NOT breathing fire or claw/claw/bite/wing/wing/tail kickin your butt.
...why does the dragon need to cast it?

arguskos
2011-01-25, 11:56 AM
...why does the dragon need to cast it?
Range: Personal.

Greenish
2011-01-25, 11:57 AM
To clarify, scintillating scales turns NA into Deflect, solving the touch problem.To clarify, Scintillating Scales gives you a penalty to NA equal to half of your CON, and a deflection bonus to AC equal to your CON.

At least, that's what the Dragonomicon version does, maybe it's been updated somewhere.

Heliomance
2011-01-25, 12:02 PM
Version I saw just makes your natural armour count as deflection. Or possibly just makes it work against touch attacks without changing the type, not sure.

Also, my local gaming group have called it the Draconomnomnomicon for ages.

arguskos
2011-01-25, 12:16 PM
At least, that's what the Dragonomicon version does, maybe it's been updated somewhere.
It was, in Spell Compendium. It changes your Natural Armor into Deflection, and does nothing else.

The Glyphstone
2011-01-25, 12:17 PM
I've called it the Draconomnomnomicon since it came out. It's just so catchy.