The key ingredient to major villains

[Paseo H]

Perhaps there are cases where something else would apply, but in many cases at least, what you want to do is this:

Make a clear line between the expendable, wannabe thugs and smug snakes, and those who actively are seeking to make the world a worse place.

In other words, someone who is less a human, and more a demon in the form of a human.

A prime example of the difference would be looking at The Dark Knight and comparing the Joker, to his expendable bank robbing henchmen in the first scene.

[Eldan]

You forget the second major class of villain: The misguided.

He is making the world a better place. His methods are absolutely necessary. Breaking eggs to make omelets. Some sacrifices are inevitable. For the Greater Good. The ends justify the means. It will all be over soon.

I think, in the end, much more believable than anyone who actually wants to make the world worse.

[Noneoyabizzness]

The key to an epically good villian is iconic style.

lets look at the closest thing we generate to high epics: comics

Joker-mentioned already
Ozmandyias-cold as ice to save the world from 1980's fearmongering by wracking up the deaths of a few hundred artists, scientists, giving people cancer and killing the Comedian. the best way the "bst intentions is to have the scale of the good intentions match the scale of his depravity
Baron Zemo-if anyone has read the thunderbolts its brilliant how even as a hero he is so villianous not even his teammates can trust him. yet he manipulates the ones who don't trusty him to do what he needs by letting them think they are "keeping an eye on him".
I welcoem any additions to high villianny examples

[Scarlet-Devil]

Hoho! Glancing over this thread while listening to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRG1vYG5Q_8&feature=related and thinking up a response, I just came up with an awesome plot (maybe a little trite, but still awesome; it involves hellbred).

But anyway, I was going to point out that another villain archetype is the 'monster' or 'alien'. Actually I guess you could compare that kind of villain to an extreme sociopath like Joker pretty easily, but one major difference is that the villain isn't even human; basically I'm talking about a villain like an archfiend, a creature who's mind a mortal can't even fathom, and maybe who can't fathom a mortal's mind either. This is the kind of villain that has a truly grand goal, like literally destroying the world, or dragging the whole planet into Baator to transform it into a new hell, and potentially has the power to actually do it.

I think more 'human' villains like the misguided already mentioned are a little easier to make interesting though.

[Sipex]

I find the best villains are those who have real motives or those who are too hard to understand.

ie: Ancient Evils would be too hard to understand while Ozymandias qualifies as a villain with a real motive.

[Grogmir]

The main ingredient for me is a name.

Fail to give them a decent - But easily remomerable one. Others it'll turn into Evil Squidge Face or The buffy inspired. 'Big Bad'.

Apart from that. FEAR. The players need to fear taking the Big Bad on.

Story is just gravy - my group doesn't take a blind bit of notice to it anyway. :smallamused:

[chiasaur11]

Make it personal, if possible.

Doesn't need to hurt the character's family, or sommat, but that's important. All the evil in the world is useless if the player goes "And I care... why?"

Compare Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2, Saren V. Collector General.

Saren never kills you. Saren doesn't kill your friends personally. You barely even know the only guy you see him ice personally. Saren even has somehat noble motives, once you find the whole score.

And you HATE that smug SOB. Because he got away from you. Because he thinks he's better than you. Because you see his handiwork everywhere. Because he thinks he can get away with it, and there is no way in hell you will let that happen.

Meanwhile, the Collector General kills you, and the response is "I get it, you're evil. Let's fight already."

Complicated, is what I'm saying.

[Vemynal]

I find that if I can get inside why my character is doing what he's doing it helps me flesh him out and turn him into a real 'villain'.

Do I necessarily need to reveal his entire woeful past to the heroes? no. That could ruin the villains status as 'big bad ass' by causing sympathy/sentiment for the villain. But doing so helps me more actively get inside the twisted mind of the character.

Like an Ur-priest/arcane spontaneous custom Ur-priest/Mystic Theurge who wanted to set himself up as a god. His actions were causing mass destruction across the world but really he just wanted the power to bring his son back to life who was sacrificed to a God so a nation would do well during war (I didn't give him Miracle or Wish and I had a big ol' convoluted reason why he couldnt bring his son back the normal way)

[JonestheSpy]

Most important thing: They have to be scary. If the villain doesn't terrify the audience or the players to some extent, someone's doing it wrong.

The reasons they're frightening can be all over the map, but if you just look at them and say "Oh yeah, necessary bad-guy plot requirement", someone's doing it wrong.

[BRC]

When I make a villain, I start with three concepts: Power, Motive, and Style.

Motive can refer to the Villain's motive, but that's secondary to the PC's motivation to oppose said Villain. Don't get me wrong, a villain with a great motivation is important, but what's more important is that it puts the PC's in conflict with them. It could be something as simple as "The PC's are on a ship, the Villain is trying to steal the ship".
Power is the way in which the Villain opposes the PC's. Once you've established that the are going to be in conflict with the PC's, you need a way to make it challenging. Power could come in the form of powerful spellcasting , or a legion of minions, a good sword arm, being a close advisor to the King, or anything else you can think of. Not all Villains must be fighters, and not all conflicts must be violent.
Finally, the villain's Style. This is something that makes the Villain, or the conflict, memorable rather than just being "Boss Fight #73". A Style can come in many forms, the important thing is that the fight is memorable. Giving them a name is a good step, but it's not always necessary.
When giving a villain a Name, it's important to make it memorable, titles or nicknames are a great way to do this, consider Manfred Von Richtofen. The name may or may not ring a bell for you, because it's just a name. You might be able to draw some conclusions from it, but without another association, it's just a collection of syllables.
Now, consider the name Manfred is better known by: The Red Baron. It's short, and it instantly brings up an association, it's memorable. It's linked to something about him (His red plane), and his actions have made it legend.

At the risk of tooting my own horn, I'll cite the most stylish villain I've ever made: The Poet. He was an undead rogue who spoke by quoting Shakespeare, outleveled the party (meaning fights with him were more about escaping than defeating him), and fought by jumping in and out of shadows.
The PC's ran up against him only three times over the course of the campaign, but he was the most memorable thing about it. fights with him differed from normal encounters in that campaign, he had a short, yet memorable, name, and he had a gimmick (Shakespeare).

So yeah, Power, Motive, and Style.

[TheCountAlucard]

The main ingredient for me is a name.Actually, I agree: a good name can be a key component of an awesome villain. :smallsmile: One of my favorite conventions for the less-human baddies is to use a title, something that makes them more of a legend, a superstition, a thing, and it suggests that even if you beat it, someone else might just take up the now-empty position. Who is the Deep Priest? You never can be too sure, now can you? :smallwink:


Apart from that. FEAR. The players need to fear taking the Big Bad on.
Most important thing: They have to be scary. If the villain doesn't terrify the audience or the players to some extent, someone's doing it wrong.I'm afraid I disagree with that. I'll admit, a number of my awesome villains have been scary, but not all of them were, and they were all still memorable.


When I make a villain, I start with three concepts: Power, Motive, and Style.Cool, cool, not a bad process at all. And I'm glad people agree with me on the whole naming-conventions thing. :smalltongue:

[kyoryu]

Have the villain threaten or take away something that the players are invested in.

As an example: Final Fantasy 7. You've invested in your party, bought them gear, spent time swapping them out, sacrificed levels that could have been given to other party members.

Then, BAM, oe of them gets killed. Permanently.

That's a huge impact, and a bigger reason to want to defeat the villain than all of the faceless NPCs that were previously killed.

[Paseo H]

My point is, there has to be something to set apart the big bads from all the little bads.

And one way of doing that is for your big bad to have made herself become an true agent of the evil cause they espouse. They live it, and breathe it. In short, they turn themselves into demons.

[Hyudra]

A villain needs:
To stand out. Something offbeat, unique, that makes him, her or it memorable weeks or months after the adventure has concluded. "Oh man, I remember that bastard."
A moment to shine, if not more than one. A scene where the adventure shows what he/she/it can do. Ideally, this should show the PCs that they're facing a real threat, and give future encounters with the villain an emotional charge.
Power. Heroes are defined by their flaws. Villains are defined by their strengths. A villain needs oomph to go against an enemy as tenacious and terrible as the PCs.
Legitimacy. A believable motive, believable character. Not having this makes for a two dimensional villain, and all of the above points pale as a result.

So I might say Taurog O'Baskon is a half orc, green skinned, with red hair cut into a tidy military cut. He sports armor with polished gold and red silk. Contrary to what one might expect of a half orc, he is cultured and well spoken. Taurog was born in the slums and, after joining the military and serving (by chance) in the same squad as the youngest son of the King, has managed to rise to a kind of prominence in high society, complete with noble standing and the ability to own land. After his six years of service in the military, he turned to leading a squad of free soldiers in the service of the kingdom.

Taurog stands out in part because of the red hair, but more because he is cultured and lawful. He will offer to parley with PCs, negotiate, and make very tempting deals. In leading his men, he will expect discipline and honor at all times, which just makes the juxtaposition of what he actually does that much worse. See below.

To a lesser degree, this is a part of Taurog's 'power'. He, even as he turns against the crown, has enough standing, connections and support of the law that he can be hard to interfere with directly.
Taurog is appalled by the treatment of half orcs, and after an argument with his friend and onetime squadmate, the young prince (Who did not believe Taurog 'deserved' to ask for the hand of the prince's cousin), his feelings have something of a fire to them. Taurog has convinced himself, as well as virtually every other half orc he could speak to, that the half orc is superior to human and orc alone. In short, that they have (or can have) the best traits of humanity (culture, intelligence) and orcdom (strength, passion) combined. Those things that make the half orc weak (low charisma, shorter lifespans), Taurog argues, are the fault of society - social exclusion, mistreatment, lack of health care and clerical attention, and the delegation of half orcs as part of the lower classes.

This goes to legitimacy, building motive and ultimate goals.The PCs are liable to hear of Taurog before they encounter him or any of his ilk. He's both popular and very interesting, in high society, and his soldiers have a reputation of doing good work - guarding caravans, killing magical beasts in the surrounding wilds and most importantly, dealing with the orc incursions that have been plaguing the villages and townships at the furthest edges of the kingdom. These orc attacks have led to a not insignificant number of half orcs being born in the kingdom, often forming their own insular communities. As such, the PCs may well hear Taurog's name in relation to anything having to do with orcs, or perhaps they encounter orcs in the wild, who surrender, claiming they know they cannot defeat the PCs, who they believe to be Taurog's men.

Taurog's first real 'event', with the PCs, is when they return from an adventure to find a town more or less slaughtered. Everyone in the town is crippled, maimed or missing. Men lie in the streets with their arms and legs broken, the elderly and infirm have been cut down, and the village has been stripped of supplies. The PCs, who may well have been hoping to resupply, sell their goods and reap the rewards, find the town unable to fill their needs. Worse, the survivors tell of how the youngest and healthiest men and women, boys and girls, have all been taken away in chains. This is Taurog's work, and serves as part of his agenda. He is recruiting half orcs and any warriors willing to join him, and enslaving human and orc alike for the sake of a forced breeding program, to produce countless new half orcs.

And this is where Taurog has his moment to 'shine', as it were. It has a concrete effect on the PCs (in terms of inconvenience, plus emotional impact if they're not total cynics), it shows his strength, reveals his goals and sets up the campaign arc where the PCs go up against the half orc warlord. Also, tying into what was stated above, the fact that he forbids his soldiers from having their way with (for lack of a stronger term, keeping it as PG as possible) the townspeople and plundering (beyond taking what supplies the army needs), but is willing of carrying out a eugenics program, should mark him out as a very principled character, in his own bizarre way.Taurog O'Baskon makes further appearances later, never moving without a contingent of (very capable) soldiers with him. He fearlessly shows up at the nation's capitol to demand reparations from the crown and claims that he is not working against the law of the land, as he is the landowner who controls the territories where the 'recruitment' is taking place, and can rule there as he sees fit. The Crown proves largely helpless to stop him from entering and leaving the capitol, as he inevitably has more, better trained soldiers on location than the government does. They can't stop his 'recruitment' either, as his armies are intimately familiar with the border territories and are gone hours before any reinforcements can arrive. There are plans at work with moles in Taurog's army, but Taurog is an ex-member of the military and intimately familiar with such ploys, so it is careful by necessity and proves slow going with minimal results. Taurog's army is snowballing into a dangerous force (with atrocities occurring every week), and in the end, the government, through the adventurer's guilds and mercenary companies, seeks every adventuring group it can, to stop him.

This is where Taurog's power really comes into its own. He's cunning and careful, and he never walks into a situation where he could lose. His army could & should include skilled combatants of every stripe (wizards, clerics, swordsages), with each battle challenging the PCs. Defeating him by overpowering his army is simply not going to work, which means the PCs should have to outsmart him, choose the battles and win them decisively.

Further, when the government hires a dozen adventuring parties to stop Taurog, you have the opportunity to give Taurog another moment to shine. If he were to singlehandedly slaughter a company of NPC adventurers, with the PCs watching but being unable (or unwilling) to help, it would hammer in that he's not someone you want to mess with.

And in the end, he's got a lot of followers. Can he even be defeated without becoming a martyr?