What could Tarquin have said?

[Luizeu]

Check out Nale's last thought bubble.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0046.html
What could Tarquin have said???

Guess away....

[TreesOfDeath]

He was ruler material?

[NerfTW]

About the whole 6 people ruling a continent scam, most likely. Which is what led to Nale deciding he wanted to be the one running the scam, and then got beaten, and then ran off to the Western continent, where he decided to go after the talisman to get an army to go back and fight his father.

[martianmister]

What about Talisman of Dorukan? :smallamused:

[Cizak]

...and then ran off to the Western continent...

You mean eastern, don't you?

[martianmister]

You mean eastern, don't you?

You mean northern, don't you? :smallamused:

[MoonCat]

Probably something disparaging Nale, or about ruling the continent, or his ability to be an adventurer (I'm mean, why was Nale so mad when his talisman was broken? He was there for Elan.).

[NerfTW]

(I'm mean, why was Nale so mad when his talisman was broken? He was there for Elan.).

What do you mean? He didn't know Elan was going to be in the dungeon. He only used Elan once he realized they were there and he needed good aligned adventurers to break the seals. What he wanted was the talisman. that's why he was mad when it broke. He wanted an army.

That's pretty much exactly what he says during his first appearance.


You mean eastern, don't you?

Whups. :smalltongue:

[Fontaine]

Probably something disparaging Nale, or about ruling the continent, or his ability to be an adventurer (I'm mean, why was Nale so mad when his talisman was broken? He was there for Elan.).

Also, that talisman breaking put him in danger, too

[MoonCat]

What do you mean? He didn't know Elan was going to be in the dungeon. He only used Elan once he realized they were there and he needed good aligned adventurers to break the seals. What he wanted was the talisman. that's why he was mad when it broke. He wanted an army.

That's pretty much exactly what he says during his first appearance.

Wait so it was just coincidence that he had an identical team to the OoTS? I don't think so. And he was lying at the time.

[Innis Cabal]

What do you mean? He didn't know Elan was going to be in the dungeon. He only used Elan once he realized they were there and he needed good aligned adventurers to break the seals. What he wanted was the talisman. that's why he was mad when it broke. He wanted an army.

That's pretty much exactly what he says during his first appearance.

Umm.......how about no. His father told him he had a good aligned brother. He went looking and it just so happened his brother was where his magical artifact of doom was held. He needed Elan, an unwitting pawn, in his scheme to get the artifact because only someone good aligned could touch the runes to open the door to the tailsman itself.

It just worked out in his favor that his brother was already in the dungeon. He'd have lied to get Elan to go with them if he wasn't.

[Alagaesian]

Tarquin never told Nale about Elan. Second panel. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0724.html)

[Innis Cabal]

Tarquin never told Nale about Elan. Second panel. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0724.html)

The Giant has said that he didn't really plan the story before around strip 100. Thus making it possible that he hadn't planned out Tarquin not telling Nale until later. Other comments make the idea murky that he was told.

[ThePhantasm]

The Giant has said that he didn't really plan the story before around strip 100. Thus making it possible that he hadn't planned out Tarquin not telling Nale until later. Other comments make the idea murky that he was told.

Huh?! What about Strip #50 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0050.html) which parallels the very strip just quoted to you?

[doodthedud]

Wait so it was just coincidence that he had an identical team to the OoTS? I don't think so. And he was lying at the time.

Actually, yes. It WAS just a coincidence. That was part of the joke.

Everything in the story opposes what you say. You can make up whatever random conclusions you like, but you're just sounding more and more like Miko. :P

[Innis Cabal]

Huh?! What about Strip #50 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0050.html) which parallels the very strip just quoted to you?

It's not impossible to go back and work something in to the story. Like the green boots for Haley or the joke about V being a camel.

[MoonCat]

Actually, yes. It WAS just a coincidence. That was part of the joke.

Everything in the story opposes what you say. You can make up whatever random conclusions you like, but you're just sounding more and more like Miko. :P

He said that he had invested a lot of time into the evil opposites (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0252.html) theme. And how does it oppose the story, he was lying about the king, wasn't he? Also, you should check out the panel to the right of you. They do a very serviceable tongue smilie:smalltongue:

[Alagaesian]

The Giant has said that he didn't really plan the story before around strip 100. Thus making it possible that he hadn't planned out Tarquin not telling Nale until later. Other comments make the idea murky that he was told.

So, what you're saying is that the Giant originally wanted Nale to know who Elan was, but decided against it later on with the story. Somehow, this means that Nale had learned about Elan from his father before strip 100, but after, this was suddenly not the case anymore?

And what other comics make this topic "murky"? Was it this one? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0393.html) Considering that everything else Nale said from panel 15 onward in that strip is an obvious lie, I'm not sure we can consider this as proof that he knew about Elan before the start of the comic.

[Innis Cabal]

I'm saying that the Giant has said he hadn't really planned anything out till around strip 100 and asking things about anything before that point and how they link up with the story isn't really useful.

[blueblade]

ITT: Innis Cabal makes a lot of sense. While it certainly doesn't look like meeting the order was part of Nale's plan, there is little point speculating about plot at that early juncture. Probably also worth mentioning that Nales hatred of his brother only really starts from the time he was thwarted in the talisman room.

Uhh, actually I'm/we're totally wrong:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0057.html
He still didn't know about Elan, but they did go down there to meet the order, and had the plan to ally with them for the amulet. So chances are the evil opposite thing was part of his over-elaborate plan.

Also, to the TC it seems like it was most likely along the lines of "my father took me aside and told me I wasn't cut out to lead and would never amount to much".

[martianmister]

Uhh, actually I'm/we're totally wrong:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0057.html
He still didn't know about Elan, but they did go down there to meet the order, and had the plan to ally with them for the amulet. So chances are the evil opposite thing was part of his over-elaborate plan.

Yikyik, Thog and Sabine was with him in Empire of Blood. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0725.html) And probably Zzdtri... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0715.html) Hilgya was a agent of Loki and join them later. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0074.html)

[ThePhantasm]

It's not impossible to go back and work something in to the story. Like the green boots for Haley or the joke about V being a camel.

Um, no, it is pretty clear from the strip that I cited that it was part of the story FROM THE BEGINNING that Tarquin did not tell Nale about his brother. You had claimed that Tarquin HAD told Nale about Elan:


Umm.......how about no. His father told him he had a good aligned brother.

I was proving you wrong.

Nale did not know about Elan, because Tarquin never told him. Just that simple. That part of their relationship was always there, even if Rich didn't have the main story plotted out. Rich didn't go back, edit the comic, and add that in, either.

Just face it, you were wrong, and I proved it with that strip, so let it go.

[grimbold]

He was ruler material?

yes
however remember elan should have hated his dad at this point having just been chased from his home by him

[bertoltus]

Hasn't anyone thought of the possibility that Nale wanted to use Dorukan's talisman to control the Empress of Blood?

[Leecros]

Hasn't anyone thought of the possibility that Nale wanted to use Dorukan's talisman to control the Empress of Blood?

nope. The talisman only works on monsters that weren't officially updated to 3rd edition (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0055.html)

[ThePhantasm]

Hasn't anyone thought of the possibility that Nale wanted to use Dorukan's talisman to control the Empress of Blood?

Hasn't anyone thought of the possibility that Nale wanted to use Dorukan's talisman to bring an army of monsters against his father? No, that is too far fetched, being that it is exactly what the comic says...

[MoonCat]

Hasn't anyone thought of the possibility that Nale wanted to use Dorukan's talisman to bring an army of monsters against his father? No, that is too far fetched, being that it is exactly what the comic says...

Hang on, it said he wanted to use them against his father? Could you link to this?

[ThePhantasm]

Hang on, it said he wanted to use them against his father? Could you link to this?

:smalleek: :smallredface:

:smallconfused: I'm pretty sure it is in there somewhere in one of Nale's monologues or discussions of business with Sabine. He mentions something about what he intended to use the army for. I just can't find it at the moment. I'm looking through all the Linear Guild comics but they are so scattered... maybe I made it up? But I was very sure it existed...

[MoonCat]

:smalleek: :smallredface:

:smallconfused: I'm pretty sure it is in there somewhere in one of Nale's monologues or discussions of business with Sabine. He mentions something about what he intended to use the army for. I just can't find it at the moment. I'm looking through all the Linear Guild comics but they are so scattered... maybe I made it up? But I was very sure it existed...

That can happen sometimes, you think of a theory, or hear one, and then forget about it until some time later and you think its canon. I don't remember this, and as I've just done several archive trawls (I participate in the OOTS Quiz thread) I can be pretty sure it's not there.

[Innis Cabal]

Um, no, it is pretty clear from the strip that I cited that it was part of the story FROM THE BEGINNING that Tarquin did not tell Nale about his brother. You had claimed that Tarquin HAD told Nale about Elan:



I was proving you wrong.

Nale did not know about Elan, because Tarquin never told him. Just that simple. That part of their relationship was always there, even if Rich didn't have the main story plotted out. Rich didn't go back, edit the comic, and add that in, either.

Just face it, you were wrong, and I proved it with that strip, so let it go.

There's no need to be hostile, especially since you're quoting me in reference to a comment made from another poster.

I've also cited my sources, which is the Giant. Anything before comic 100 or there around wasn't originally planned for the comic. Anything that is related or mentioned again was tied into the plot after the fact. Again like the camel joke or the lime green boots.

Quoting my comments that were made from before you even posted in this thread doesn't prove anything. I also never said he edited anything in. I said that he went back to older comics and derived parts of the story from there so they'd link up better. Writers do it all the time. Comic writers do it all the time.

[ThePhantasm]

There's no need to be hostile, especially since you're quoting me in reference to a comment made from another poster.

I've also cited my sources, which is the Giant. Anything before comic 100 or there around wasn't originally planned for the comic. Anything that is related or mentioned again was tied into the plot after the fact. Again like the camel joke or the lime green boots.

Quoting my comments that were made from before you even posted in this thread doesn't prove anything. I also never said he edited anything in. I said that he went back to older comics and derived parts of the story from there so they'd link up better. Writers do it all the time. Comic writers do it all the time.

I'm not being hostile at all... ?! :smallconfused: I said nothing hostile. I think you are mistaking emphasis for hostility.

My point isn't about the whole "change" stuff or not. My point is that you said Tarquin told Nale about Elan. Then someone said "not so." Then you said


The Giant has said that he didn't really plan the story before around strip 100. Thus making it possible that he hadn't planned out Tarquin not telling Nale until later. Other comments make the idea murky that he was told.

Then I put forward strip #50 as something that contradicted this claim. Then you starting saying all this stuff about the Giant tying it in after the fact, which makes no sense compared to your original argument. The point that I was making is that yes it was always part of the plan for Tarquin to have NOT told Nale about Elan. That was always present in the comics, from the beginning. Maybe it didn't bear the import it bears now, but there was never a time in the comics when "Tarquin had told Nale".


That can happen sometimes, you think of a theory, or hear one, and then forget about it until some time later and you think its canon. I don't remember this, and as I've just done several archive trawls (I participate in the OOTS Quiz thread) I can be pretty sure it's not there.

Thanks MoonCat for setting the record straight. I am willing to admit that I was indeed in error! I should always be sure to quote my source if I'm making that sort of declarative statement...

[Ron Miel]

Um, no, it is pretty clear from the strip that I cited that it was part of the story FROM THE BEGINNING that Tarquin did not tell Nale about his brother. You had claimed that Tarquin HAD told Nale about Elan:

I was proving you wrong.

Nale did not know about Elan, because Tarquin never told him. Just that simple. That part of their relationship was always there, even if Rich didn't have the main story plotted out. Rich didn't go back, edit the comic, and add that in, either.

Just face it, you were wrong, and I proved it with that strip, so let it go.


Phantasm, YOU are wrong. The fact is that the strip contains contradictory information.

The strip started out as gag-a-day. Rich planned the prophecy and the betrayal, everything else was making it up as he went along. He had only a rough backstory for Nale, and didn't think it through.

On the first appearance of Nale, it seems to be a chance encounter, with Nale having no prior knowledge of his brother. Then later it shows that Nale deliberately filled his team with evil opposites to Elan's friends.

Thus the strip says both that Nale knew about Elan, and also says that he didn't know about Elan. You can't say that either of these is right, and the other wrong. Anyone that tries to pick one of them, and dismiss the other, is wrong. And neither of them was planned from the start, because there WAS no plan at the start.

[Francis Davey]

Its consistent with what we know - whether or not it is true or planned in from the beginning - that Nale knew about Elan before they met in the Dungeon of Dorukan.

Its right that Tarquin says he did not tell Nale (to heighten the dramatic tension). Even assuming that is true (and of course Tarquin is not always striclty honest), Nale is quite capable of finding out on his own.

Once Nale is aware of Elan he can be expected to do something needlessly complicated about it.

[Alagaesian]

I'm pretty sure that the 'evil opposites theme' that Nale talked about was referring to when he hired replacements for members of the Linear Guild, not when he hired the original members. It's not like he knew much about the Order before he went into the Dungeon of Dorukan...he still thinks Elan's their leader. Plus, Nale and most of the Linear Guild betrayed the Empress of Blood 'two years ago'...before the Order was even formed. If Nale designed his original team specifically as an evil opposite to Elan's, he would have to be a future psychic.

Therefore, there's no real evidence to support that Nale knew about Elan pre-Dungeon of Dorukan.

[Durgok]

I'm pretty sure that the 'evil opposites theme' that Nale talked about was referring to when he hired replacements for members of the Linear Guild, not when he hired the original members. It's not like he knew much about the Order before he went into the Dungeon of Dorukan...he still thinks Elan's their leader. Plus, Nale and most of the Linear Guild betrayed the Empress of Blood 'two years ago'...before the Order was even formed. If Nale designed his original team specifically as an evil opposite to Elan's, he would have to be a future psychic.

Therefore, there's no real evidence to support that Nale knew about Elan pre-Dungeon of Dorukan.


I agree. And this comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0715.html) shows that his entire party (minus Hilgya) was together when they betrayed the EoB.

[ThePhantasm]

Phantasm, YOU are wrong. The fact is that the strip contains contradictory information.

The strip started out as gag-a-day. Rich planned the prophecy and the betrayal, everything else was making it up as he went along. He had only a rough backstory for Nale, and didn't think it through.

On the first appearance of Nale, it seems to be a chance encounter, with Nale having no prior knowledge of his brother. Then later it shows that Nale deliberately filled his team with evil opposites to Elan's friends.

Thus the strip says both that Nale knew about Elan, and also says that he didn't know about Elan. You can't say that either of these is right, and the other wrong. Anyone that tries to pick one of them, and dismiss the other, is wrong. And neither of them was planned from the start, because there WAS no plan at the start.

I'm saying Tarquin never told Nale. Nale could have figured it out on his own. The strip never contradicts that Tarquin wasn't the source of this knowledge - I defy you to find a place where it is inconsistent on this point. Find a place where it says Tarquin told Nale.

You're debating me on the wrong discussion point.


I'm pretty sure that the 'evil opposites theme' that Nale talked about was referring to when he hired replacements for members of the Linear Guild, not when he hired the original members. It's not like he knew much about the Order before he went into the Dungeon of Dorukan...he still thinks Elan's their leader. Plus, Nale and most of the Linear Guild betrayed the Empress of Blood 'two years ago'...before the Order was even formed. If Nale designed his original team specifically as an evil opposite to Elan's, he would have to be a future psychic.

Therefore, there's no real evidence to support that Nale knew about Elan pre-Dungeon of Dorukan.

Exactly.

[aart lover]

i love threads like these. they always turn into conspiracy arguments somehow:smallbiggrin:

[Kish]

The comic never, never says Nale knew about Elan before they met. Not at any point. It does say he didn't. Where's the contradiction supposed to be?

yes
however remember elan should have hated his dad at this point having just been chased from his home by him
Huh?