Improving the warlock?

[Hazzardevil]

Just so we are all on the same page, the warlocks problems are:
Not enough invocations,
EB isn't strong enough/you can't use the enough per round,
The invocations themselves just replicate magic items and there are few that do something that can't be replicated.

I always liked the flavour of the class and the whole mechanics for it but it couldn't compare to a duskblade, let alone a wizard.

My first idea was allow the metamagics to be applied on teh invocations and EB an unlimited amount.
Any other ideas that could help the warlock without any major redesigning?r

[tzaan]

do you mean warlocks don't have enough invocation options or invocations known? because there's a few books that add to the invocation list and instead of standard metamagic you just take *insert metamagic here*-Spell Like Ability

the prestige classes in Complete Mage are really useful for Warlocks- Eldritch Theurge especially 'cos you get all the tier 1 benefits of being a wizard + a handy unlimited ammo blaster built into your finger

what about a slight redesign of the warlock along the same lines as Psion/Erudite - a warlock that sacrifices some of the permanent goodies (DR, fast healing, resistances etc) for an expanded invocation list

or give them access to some kind of ritual magic/Vestiges. That would be workable, flavour wise...I mean, you're warlock, a dude with a font of mystical power burning in your chest. Makes sense it came from somewhere- why not pact magic? ....actually that would make quite a good hybrid PrC

[Xefas]

Just so we are all on the same page, the warlocks problems are:
Not enough invocations,
EB isn't strong enough/you can't use the enough per round,
The invocations themselves just replicate magic items and there are few that do something that can't be replicated.

Alright, so it would logical follow that the first step to fixing them would be-

My first idea was allow the metamagics to be applied on teh invocations and EB an unlimited amount.

What? :smallconfused:

You've zeroed in on the three problems you think Warlocks have, and yet your one solution has absolutely nothing to do with any of your proposed problems? I'm just gonna go a little crazy here and say that:

1) If you think the Warlock doesn't have enough invocations, "giving them more invocations" would likely be the solution.
2) If Eldritch Blast isn't strong enough and isn't capable of being used enough times per round, "making the Eldritch Blast deal more damage and be capable of being used multiple times per round" would follow.
3) If there aren't enough unique Invocations, then "make more unique invocations" might help.

[Kobold-Bard]

mhvaughan's Warlock 2.0 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142707) deals with your first two.

[Fable Wright]

I made a warlock fix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184385) recently, and it might work with what you're looking for...

[blackmage]

If you like invocations, but don't care about Eldritch Blast, there's the Invoker (http://forum.faxcelestis.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21). There's also the high-powered, death-themed Ebon Initiate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163297).

[Re'ozul]

Oh, the last two posts perfectly mirror what i wanted to say.

The warlock fix adresses all of your issues perfectly. It also adds some very nice additional perks. But like a good class you would be MAD to try and master them all.

The Invoker is actually a better blaster than the warlock because he gets nearly every orb spell at-will at level 6.

The Ebon Initiate is pure necromancy-awesome and my current preferred class, though I have to agree that some of its features and combinations make it a bit too powerful (especially in melee).

[Barbarian MD]

mhvaughan's Warlock 2.0 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142707) deals with your first two.

I do so love to see my work appreciated. It warms my heart.

[Hazzardevil]

I now realise that I worded my first post really badly and was too tired when I made the post to check it.
By not enough Invocations I meant that a warlock didn't know enough to be truly useful in a large party.
I do think that EB should be iterative.
My idea for allowing spell like meta-magic to be used as much as you like on invocations was also meant to cover EB, this would mean that a level 3 human warlock could have:
Maxed damage dice+ another 50%+ another EB.
So at level 20 you have 3 iterative EB's and another quickened one.

I have skimmed through mhvaughan's Warlock 2.0 before but I don't want a complete redesign just a few quick fixes.

[Kobold-Bard]

...

I have skimmed through mhvaughan's Warlock 2.0 before but I don't want a complete redesign just a few quick fixes.

Skim harder. It ups EB damage, gives mire Invocations and gives free Meta-Spell Like effects. Not a redesign, just a few (well done) quick fixes. He even made the changes red so they're easy to see.

[Re'ozul]

I had the idea on meta-EBs also, but unless you somehow restrict which metamagic you can take it gets a bit crazy.
If you stick with the SRD ones that can be applied to SLAs it won't be as bad, but consider what you said. a normal EB at higher level (especially with hellfire) is 14d6 (not 15 due to shenanigans to eliminate con damage).
Maximized empowered, makes this 7d6+84 for average 108 damage.
Furthermore if its an attack action (for iteratives) you can probably pull all kinds of shenanigans there, haste would be one of the easiest. If its a "As a full-round action you get EBs according to your BAB", then wouldn't quicken give you even an additional fullround for a total of 6 attacks? Would you give them automa

I thought about giving one Metamagic point for every 5 levels in the base class. At the same time they can choose one bonus metamagic feat of that point level and one of each below.
(Also give normal increase in EB, with 10d6 at 19th)

Level 5 : 1Point : Choose a feat that has a +1 level modifier.
Level 10 : 2Points: +2 modifier, +1 modifier
etc

Points are expended as the appropriate extra spell levels that would normally be used to modify the spell.
You can add these feats (and only these feats) to any of your invocations. You may also stack them if the amount of points allows it. Effects are cumulative and based on the intermitent ability:

Example: lvl20 warlock (4pts): EB 10d6 - Empower (2pts) - 15d6 - Empower (2pts) - 22d6

or the same warlock with eldritch spear and 4 enlarges: 250 x 2^4 =4000ft (I'm shooting you from the next village over)

(Cones count as widen-material in my mind, I can never find any real information which metamagic they fall under)

I also thought about rewarding a straight 20lvl warlock with the following: If you have chosen Empower and an invocation has no random effect to empower you may choose one static effect and increase it by 50% for a cost of 4 points.

you can probably do some crazy **** with this and some of the non EB invocations.

[Barbarian MD]

My Warlock 2.0 gives 3+Cha free metamagics. You gain acces to empower, followed by maximize, followed by one of your choice, and finally quicken.

It's not too bad, though, because if you quicken a blast, you're only going to be getting one additional attack--not a full attack. Haste would net you one more, so six at most.

Really, quicken would be much more effective on an invocation though. You can quicken a hex to make them more vulnerable, or quicken invisibility to fade from view after your attack. Quickening an eldritch blast seems like a bit of a waste.

By the way, you'd have to apply maximize to ALL SIX blasts individually, so definitely not something you'd want to do unless you're playing rocket tag.