The collaborative effort to Make Casters Cry

[Darthteej]

Yeah, that's right, haven't you always wanted to do it? When a wizard effortlessly dishes out death through a combination of brute force and sheer genius use of spells, to find some way of paying them back? But alas, somehow they can persevere. Either by buffing, summoning, or simply running away, your ingame solutions prove ineffective.

So show these CoDzillas that you're serious, and find a way to screw them over, humbling them in combat. This collaborative homebrew thread is to create anything and everything to put casters in their place. Feats, alternate class features, weapons, spells, magic items, a variant spell resistance system, it's all as long as it's designed to screw over casters in some creative way!And to start, I present two special monster attacks.

Overwhelm(Ex.):
For use against:Squisy wizards
To activate this ability, the creature must grapple and pin an opponent that is at least one size category smaller. From this moment forward, the creature can use it's full attack on the grappled opponent unless it can escape the pin. Being overwhelmed adds +5 to the DC of any concentration check.

Rebuke False Nature(Su.):
For use Against:Wildshape abusers, The best part is that fiendish animals can target True Neutral druids.
Animals have an innate ability to detect the wildshaping of any druids, and those who have failed to hold themselves up to the eye of nature will find a consequence from even the simplest creature. An animal of a different alignment than a wildshaped druid can attempt to revert the druid back into it's base form through a free action. This ability targets the Willpower save, and has a DC of 10+the Animals' HD and Wisdom(if applicable.) If the attack suceeds, the druid is reverted back into it's base form, stunned for one round, and the animal companion cowers for one round.

Now it's your turn.

[Barbarian MD]

Not powerful enough. Try googling the Races of War Samurai and Fighter (the DnD Wiki page is formatted much better than the Wikia) and look at the "Mage Slayer" and "Magekiller" combat feat trees on the DnD Wikia page.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Yeah, that's right, haven't you always wanted to do it? When a wizard effortlessly dishes out death through a combination of brute force and sheer genius use of spells, to find some way of paying them back? But alas, somehow they can persevere. Either by buffing, summoning, or simply running away, your ingame solutions prove ineffective.

So show these CoDzillas that you're serious, and find a way to screw them over, humbling them in combat. This collaborative homebrew thread is to create anything and everything to put casters in their place. Feats, alternate class features, weapons, spells, magic items, a variant spell resistance system, it's all as long as it's designed to screw over casters in some creative way!And to start, I present two special monster attacks.

Overwhelm(Ex.):
For use against:Squisy wizards
To activate this ability, the creature must grapple and pin an opponent that is at least one size category smaller. From this moment forward, the creature can use it's full attack on the grappled opponent unless it can escape the pin. Being overwhelmed adds +5 to the DC of any concentration check.

Rebuke False Nature(Su.):
For use Against:Wildshape abusers, The best part is that fiendish animals can target True Neutral druids.
Animals have an innate ability to detect the wildshaping of any druids, and those who have failed to hold themselves up to the eye of nature will find a consequence from even the simplest creature. An animal of a different alignment than a wildshaped druid can attempt to revert the druid back into it's base form through a free action. This ability targets the Willpower save, and has a DC of 10+the Animals' HD and Wisdom(if applicable.) If the attack suceeds, the druid is reverted back into it's base form, stunned for one round, and the animal companion cowers for one round.

Now it's your turn.

All animals are true Neutral. I mean, I dislike casters, but this is just broken. Or so it seems to my un-trained eye.

[Darthteej]

All animals are true Neutral. I mean, I dislike casters, but this is just broken. Or so it seems to my un-trained eye.

That's the POINT!

Not powerful enough. Try googling the Races of War Samurai and Fighter (the DnD Wiki page is formatted much better than the Wikia) and look at the "Mage Slayer" and "Magekiller" combat feat trees on the DnD Wikia page.

DYI, my friend.

[Barbarian MD]

DYI? I'm not familiar with that acronym.

[Darthteej]

DYI? I'm not familiar with that acronym.

Do it yourself. Destroy those casters who have RUINED your plans.

[DragonOfUndeath]

Do it yourself. Destroy those casters who have RUINED your plans.

He was subtly pointing out that DYI doesn't exist.
DIY however does.

[Amnestic]

I'm a tad confused. I thought Druids got their power from either Nature or a Nature-based deity. Why would their Wildshape "fail to hold up in the eyes of nature" when it's a granted power to them? If they failed to hold up, surely they'd just become ex-Druids.

[DragonOfUndeath]

I'm a tad confused. I thought Druids got their power from either Nature or a Nature-based deity. Why would their Wildshape "fail to hold up in the eyes of nature" when it's a granted power to them? If they failed to hold up, surely they'd just become ex-Druids.

I think it's more Nature/nature
Nature let's you transform into a bear
nature (ie bears) don't believe you are an actual bear and forces you out of bear form.

[Amnestic]

I think it's more Nature/nature
Nature let's you transform into a bear
nature (ie bears) don't believe you are an actual bear and forces you out of bear form.

Well that doesn't make much sense either. I mean, if you get polymorphed into a squirrel and a squirrel doesn't think you're a squirrel, you don't come out of your polymorph.

I'm not averse to finding ways to throw Druids out of Wildshape, but it should at least make sense.

[Barbarian MD]

Church Inquisitor can make you succeed on a save when struck or turn into your true form, so there's precedent for the ability, sort of.

[Set]

Random ideas to make casters cry;

1) All spells that require a standard action to cast now require a full round action to cast, meaning that the caster can only take a single 5 ft. step and cast them, and while casting, the caster is treated as flat-footed, due to the intense concentration required. <SNEAK ATTACK!> Oh, was that your kidney? Guess you shouldn't have closed your eyes while praying to Isis...

2) Once a spell is cast, the magical forces gather, and at the end of the round, the spell effect occurs. If the caster is struck at any time during the round of casting, it can disrupt the formation of the spell (Concentration check required), even if he hasn't started yet (because it isn't his initiative count), or he has already cast the spell (after his initiative, but before the end of the round, when the spell 'goes off'), as the concentration required to initiate, cast and maintain the spell until the energies release is that intense.

It's 1st edition sword-us interruptus all over again! Grognards attack!

3) All spellcasters must choose at character creation to be either a prepared caster, with a spellbook (or crystal, or runestaff, or whatever), potentially unlimited spells known (added as if they were a wizard, 2 / level and as acquired through purchase or adventuring), and requiring study and preparation each day *or* spontaneous, with a very spell selection of Spells Known, and slightly more castings per day. This equals no change for Sorcerers or Wizards, who become, effectively, the same class (and hey, give the Sorcerer those wizard feats, because, frankly, who cares, he's still never going to be one of the 'Big Three.'). But for Bards, Clerics, Druids, Paladins and Rangers, it equals a change. Bards get the choice of being Prepared casters. Yay for them. Paladins and Rangers lose access to every spell on their tiny little crappy lists, but can choose to be prepared casters, and possibly get them all in their 'prayer books' or whatever eventually anyway, or spontaneous casters and get a few more castings / day, and an even smaller, crappy list of Spells Known.

Clerics and Druids, on the other hand, weep bitter salty tears, which everyone not a Cleric or Druid savor the sweet, sweet taste of, as they are forced to either be prepared casters, and carry prayer books (ogham runestaves, whatever) of their spells, and buy / purchase / steal them like a Wizard, or be spontaneous casters and get a few more castings a day, at the cost of knowing a maximum of (at 20th level) *thirty-four* spells total (and nine cantrips), from their list of 53813721 possible Cleric / Druid spells.

Yeah, that's right. Pay to find and scribe every Cleric or Druid spell you want added to your 'book,' over the base 40-ish you get for your 20 class levels, or go spontaneous and have thirty-four Spells Known at 20th level Mr. CoDzilla, just like a 20th level Sorcerer. Don't like it? Buy a scroll, hippie, just like the arcanists have to.

[Nihilarian]

That's the POINT!

Not powerful enough. Try googling the Races of War Samurai and Fighter (the DnD Wiki page is formatted much better than the Wikia) and look at the "Mage Slayer" and "Magekiller" combat feat trees on the DnD Wikia page.

DYI, my friend.

Ok, I think we have very different ideas about re balancing. Making overpowered homebrewed feats does not a balanced game make. Besides, you're kind of throwing a dish sponge in the ocean here. Overwhelm may very well be broken before level 7 (and I'm not so sure it is, frankly), but at level 7 CoDzilla has Freedom of Movement. For any other caster, a ring of freedom of movement is 40,000 gp. Dirt cheap for an item that renders an entire style of combat worth less than the paper it's printed on. Rebuke False Nature is just weird. I can see other animals not recognizing you as a real animal (despite the low intelligence...) but forcing a druid out of wild shape seems very specialized for something any animal can do. Not to mention, this does absolutely zilch about a polymorphing caster; its geared specifically against druids.

The problem with making a bunch of options to kill casters, is that at the end of that path lies a singular focus of killing casters. If you aren't careful, you'll be useless against anything else. It takes almost no effort for a caster to dominate anyone else and everyone else all day. The only way to really balance the classes is to redo the spells, which is a chancy subject at best. Pathfinder was a step in the right direction, but frankly there is still a wide gulf between the classes. 4e, though many don't like it, did a far better job (as far as balance goes, at least).

[Pyromancer999]

Why not just adjust your adventures to factor in spellcasting? Or, if you hate spellcasters so much, and you're the DM, just ban them. Simple. Done. But don't carry out your hatred of spellcasters by making one difficult to play.

[Lord_Gareth]

Alternately, if your players insist on raping your setting, spring one of these (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7594564&postcount=8) on them.

[Bibliomancer]

@OP:

Minor technicality: fiendish animals are magical creatures, not animals, since their Int is increased to 3.

@Set:

I really like the idea of all classes being prepared/spontaneous. It makes all sorts of sense from the point of view of the gods, namely that they're too busy to constantly pay attention to their clerics and thus you either have to a) settle for a few reliable miracles or b) search out hidden rituals and lengthy chants that unlock a very specific aspect of a god's power. Being able to get new spells just by asking for them by name seemed rather...easy.