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Necro_EX
2011-01-26, 01:19 PM
My local group's had this Forgotten Realms campaign running for some time now, and we've all been enjoying it thoroughly, but I've come across a serious problem. One of my players, we'll call him D for short, has had a lot of problems showing up. It's not that he can't show up most of the time, but he just doesn't bother.

If he does show up he's often pretty late. We have two people in the group who do Amtgard the same day as our game and they show up on time more consistently than D does. He's in a relationship, and that's been a big part of it, he wants to spend more time with her, which is fine...I can deal with that, I'd rather be with a girl than my nerdy ass, too.

The issue is that he'll say he's going to show up and then just kinda...doesn't.
It's starting to aggravate the other players, too....to the point where they care less about what happens involving his character. :/

Also, his character is pretty damn important to what's going on in our campaign, so...

So, what should I do about this?

I know I need to talk to him about this, tell him how it's effecting the game negatively for everyone else, but what are my acceptable options, here?

Waker
2011-01-26, 01:24 PM
Well, you have a few options.
-Change the time for the game. This is hardly the ideal solution, but it may help.
- Turn his character into an NPC/PC. Let him play the character when he shows up, but otherwise it's an NPC for story purposes.
- Drop him from the game entirely.

Starbuck_II
2011-01-26, 01:25 PM
My local group's had this Forgotten Realms campaign running for some time now, and we've all been enjoying it thoroughly, but I've come across a serious problem. One of my players, we'll call him D for short, has had a lot of problems showing up. It's not that he can't show up most of the time, but he just doesn't bother.

If he does show up he's often pretty late. We have two people in the group who do Amtgard the same day as our game and they show up on time more consistently than D does. He's in a relationship, and that's been a big part of it, he wants to spend more time with her, which is fine...I can deal with that, I'd rather be with a girl than my nerdy ass, too.

The issue is that he'll say he's going to show up and then just kinda...doesn't.
It's starting to aggravate the other players, too....to the point where they care less about what happens involving his character. :/

Also, his character is pretty damn important to what's going on in our campaign, so...

So, what should I do about this?

I know I need to talk to him about this, tell him how it's effecting the game negatively for everyone else, but what are my acceptable options, here?

There is The Gamers (movie) approach. He is there just to the left of everyone (off the side). Or other players can play his character while he is gone.

But really ask him to give his word only if he can keep it (in a nce way). Ask him not to say he will if he "just might" and isn't sure. You'd perfer not to get your hopes up.

bokodasu
2011-01-26, 01:39 PM
Step 1 - tell him you'd rather he say he can't come than say he'll come and then not.

Step 2 - add that if he's more than 10 minutes late, you'll assume he's not coming.

Step 3 - either prepare his character to work as an NPC or write it out of the spotlight. Reward players who do show up with "chosen one" status.

Step 4 - consistently act on steps 1-3. If he shapes up, great! If not, don't let it drag your other players down. And definitely don't let him flake out three or four times and then return to "important to the plot" status when he does show up.

Necro_EX
2011-01-26, 01:45 PM
Alright, sound reasoning abounds. :D

Yeah, looks like I'm going to have to put my foot down on this issue. It's starting to effect the game in a negative way. :/

Well, worst case scenario it gives me something more to do, I guess...I'll basically have a DMPC, not something I like doing at all, but it'd be pretty hard to write the character out short of death, which his uncle (the party's benefactor) could easily afford to get around.

Guess he's getting another chance or two, then it's gonna have to be final. :/

gbprime
2011-01-26, 01:53 PM
Ah yes, Amtgard. Nothing like a hard day of fighting, then sitting to game for 6 hours only to realize you can't stand UP afterward. :smallbiggrin:

I'm going to be facing a similar issue in my upcoming campaign. The host and his wife have 2 teens who like to play but don't like to sit at the table for all that "boring talking stuff". They prefer to just come into the room when it's time to hit something, and actually leave between rounds of combat when it's not their turn. They aren't in the room for roleplaying at all.

So I asked that when I start running that if they're going to play, they be seated at the table with the rest of us, boring talking stuff and all. Negative reaction, as you might imagine, as if I'm railroading them. Sigh.

valadil
2011-01-26, 02:16 PM
I've known players like that. Personally I don't think they're worth the trouble of ditching, unless you'd be giving their spot to someone else. The best way of dealing with them is by not giving them personal plot*. It's a wasted effort. Write for the players who can show up. Don't expect the flaky player to show, but be happy when he does.

* The exception is if you can give them plots that aren't time sensitive. If a PC's jilted lover is going to show up and cause havoc, that can happen any time the PCs aren't in a dungeon. Write that plot for the unreliable player. Don't write the plot that has to happen next session. Doing so all but guarantees your flaky player will flake.

randomhero00
2011-01-26, 02:21 PM
Make his character less important to the campaign. Implement some sort of reward system for showing up. Fairly simple.

Necro_EX
2011-01-26, 02:42 PM
Well it'll be kinda hard to make his character less important to the plot.

See, when we first started the campaign he showed up for every session, and had been more on time than the other two, but now that we're a decent amount into it he's started becoming problematic like this.

I can still definitely work on everyone else's plots more, but the central plot we've got going has him as important. :/

Of course, he's not exactly necessary for the big finish, but one of the things leading up to the big finish is a betrayal from an old friend of his who they've been working alongside. I suppose I could have that character get a little closer to the rest of the party to help fix this.

Aemoh87
2011-01-26, 03:39 PM
I play with the three strike rule, no excuses. It sounds harsh but it gives serious players lots of wiggle room and a way to tell less serious players that maybe they don't have the time for such a commitment at the moment.

But usually if attendance is a problem they are gonna fall behind exp wise and throw the story off considerably. Get rid of him, it's harsh but will improve your campaign tenfold

Aemoh87
2011-01-26, 03:42 PM
Also as for players getting up when its not their turn at the table???? I always thought combat was boring part of starting a fight :)

Elric VIII
2011-01-26, 04:01 PM
I think it might be a bad idea to make his character less important without his consent.

In my group (I'm not the DM in this scenario) there is a player that actually has a social life every now and then. What we did was asked him what he would prefer that we do with his character.

We gave him the options:
- You character does not go adventuring with us for the day, instead he stays at our base to train/research/touch himself (his choice).

- We give him the NPC hat for the day and he follows the group contributing when we need him.

- We let a player of his choice run his character for him.

NOTE: Do not give an exp penalty, that will definately make him less likely to show up.

Aemoh87
2011-01-26, 04:08 PM
I agree, avoid exp penalties. Sometimes players just can't come. They want to be there but they are just to busy for the time being, don't shred their character either. Also I agree let them decided what to do with it, this is very handy when it comes to player vacations.

But overall sometimes you gotta let people go. I am very serious about my role play, but it's tough to build a party when you don't know which members will be there for you.

Katana_Geldar
2011-01-26, 05:17 PM
There is a difference between not showing up and not showing up and letting the DM know you can't beforehand.

If the former happens, I let the players cook up something embarrasing that happens to their character. And this is not because they have commitments, but they did not have the courtesy to send me a message saying "Sorry, I can't come". One of my friends, who was a player with my group until he did this, just does not get it.

Jay R
2011-01-26, 08:45 PM
I let players know that the game goes on, and their PC is active in it. They can choose one of two options:

1. Their PCs will fight or use spells as needed, but cannot die, get cursed or injured, and will not receive treasure, magic, or XPs. The only exception is that a TPK remains a TPK, unless I can find a way to avoid it.

2. They can choose another player to play the character. The character is fully eligible for all game benefits, including XPs, treasure, magic items, injuries, curses, and death.

This choice is made in advance, or option 1 is automatic. (I.e., unless they have given me the player's name to play the character in advance, the character is a drone.)

aboyd
2011-01-26, 11:45 PM
Weird. I had a similar issue about a year ago, but I was a player in the game, not the DM.

Double weird was that when I asked about it on a forum (not this one), everyone basically told me to shut up because it's just a game and if a person disappears even for a year straight and then reappears, you should just go with it.

But to me, in a group of martial characters with only a wizard for magic, having the wizard not in play half the time really threw us off. There were challenges that we simply couldn't surmount without her. There were some moments even when she was around that we had to do without her. We were fighting a morgh and none of us wanted to risk getting close, and her response was to say "pass" when her turn in combat came up, even though she had beautiful blasty spells that would have ended the combat in about 2 rounds, or at least could have buffed us so that we could have been better able to handle it. (She was reading a catalog, circling stuff she wanted to buy, so she didn't want to get distracted from that.)

After a while the discontent got pretty bad, not only with me, and the DM agreed to move on without her. I have to admit, dumping her from the game was a wonderful decision. We filled her seat with another player that actually shows up, has spells, and tries to be useful. Yay!

Vknight
2011-01-26, 11:51 PM
Well it all comes down to how you want to handle it.

I've found it best to go with whatever feels right for the story.

An example is the Paladin & Runepriest in a 4e game I dmed got trapped in the cellar well a zombie invasion happened.
The rouge accidently broke the lock trapping them & the players didn't show the next week because of a scheduling conflict or bad things would happen to them.
They showed but the next meeting there Paladin & Preist having escaped & meeting with the others. The explanation for how they lived? The zombies were borruwing under so they used one of the holes to get out.

werik
2011-01-27, 01:40 AM
I'd just like to echo a few things that have already been said. We all obviously have lives outside of RPGs but there are good ways and bad ways with dealing with that situation. Sure D&D is "just a game" but a game is also a social interaction and it would be terribly rude to just not show up to any other social event without any warning. What's more, while D&D is a game it's not just like every other game. A lot of time and preparation goes into it, especially for the DM. Think of it like meal plans. If your friend cancels last minute about meeting you for lunch at the burger joint, it's irritating but just that. If they decide not to show up after you've spent all day cooking dinner, it's a different situation entirely. As far as the social side of it, I would just put it in those terms to your player. If your player can't foresee devoting a semi-regular time to the game it might be more fair for both sides to move on from it.

As far as in game management, I agree that flexibility is the best option. If your player is generally interested in continuing to play and is just busy, it's always easy to draft one of the other players into playing them for exceptional sessions. Some players might not like this, but it's imperative especially for roleplaying situations where it can get really tedious for the DM to speak on behalf of yet another character. If the controlled character needs to receive information that the other players shouldn't know about (example, the jilted nobleman character would discover more information about his family's dishonor), try to arranging giving such information until the player is there. If that's impossible, assume that the information was given to the character and he/she just couldn't bring herself to share it with the rest of the party at that moment. Let the player decide what to do later.

begooler
2011-01-27, 01:44 AM
In my group (I'm not the DM in this scenario) there is a player that actually has a social life every now and then.

There is a big difference between being really busy and trying to work around it... and just blowing people off. If he were making plans all the time that conflicted with the game, but gave you fair warning, then that would be fine. You two could just work out what to do with his character.
But if he doesn't care enough to respect that everyone else's enjoying of the game is dependent on him, then that's pretty insulting.

I'd put your foot down and tell him that the other players can't have a good time if he's not going to show up, or at least give you a heads up about not showing up. He might be 'busy' but its not like there's other things that the rest of the players would rather be doing than sitting around waiting for him either. If he continues to not show, or work it out with you, kick him and just use the NPC as plot device.

But, it that feels too aggressive, maybe it would help to organize people in your group getting together outside of dnd. I don't know how good of friends you all are, but I get the impression from your post that this problem guy doesn't really see you as friends outside of the game. That may play into why he doesn't respect you enough to bend his plans for you. Building on your outside of game relationship with him might make him think about that more.

MeeposFire
2011-01-27, 05:32 AM
Well it'll be kinda hard to make his character less important to the plot.

See, when we first started the campaign he showed up for every session, and had been more on time than the other two, but now that we're a decent amount into it he's started becoming problematic like this.

I can still definitely work on everyone else's plots more, but the central plot we've got going has him as important. :/

Of course, he's not exactly necessary for the big finish, but one of the things leading up to the big finish is a betrayal from an old friend of his who they've been working alongside. I suppose I could have that character get a little closer to the rest of the party to help fix this.

It might be time for a M. Night Shamalon plot twist and make it so that it was actually a different person all the time.

WHAT A TWIST!

Necro_EX
2011-01-27, 07:40 AM
I don't know how good of friends you all are, but I get the impression from your post that this problem guy doesn't really see you as friends outside of the game. That may play into why he doesn't respect you enough to bend his plans for you. Building on your outside of game relationship with him might make him think about that more.

The sad part about it is we're actually pretty close friends outside the game. :/
Everyone in my local group, except for one person, I've known for quite a while and the problematic player happens to be the one I've known the longest. D:

Right, well...based on what everyone's suggested I'm going to have to put my foot down on this. I'll let him know how this is effecting the game and he needs to decide if he even wants to continue playing.

Sipex
2011-01-27, 09:19 AM
Question: Has anything major changed in his life since you started the campaign? Did he get a new girl? Is he in school? New job? Anything?

Thorcrest
2011-01-27, 10:14 AM
I think the real problem is that they don't even tell you that they aren't going to show up... it's why I always tell people: I'll be there unless my car explodes/the world ends/I have a heart attack, etc. It's kind of a joke, but it lets them know that if I'm not there and I haven't contacted them, it was probably something fairly serious.

The real thing is, unless he is incapable of contacting you, due to horrible disfiguring injury, hospitalization, etc., all serious examples, but really why else wouldn't he be able to send a text or an email? he should definitely get a hold of you. Hell, the last two game sessions, I wasn't able to make it since my car broke down and I had no other way of getting there (I live in the middle of nowhere about an hour from where I game) and they new I wouldn't be able to make it as soon as I did.

caden_varn
2011-01-27, 11:00 AM
The most important thing is to talk it through.
initially talk to him, lay out your concern, let him see that you understand his position (in that he wants to spend time with his GF), but that it is having a major impact on the rest of the group. Set out some options, (turn up regularly or drop out for the short term until he can for example), and be prepared to consider his suggestions too.

You also need to speak to the rest of the players, to see what their viewpoint is.
Try to keep all conversations polite and respectful, of course :smallsmile:


One option may be to put the current campaign on hold for the moment, until he becomes reliable again (or stops coming completely and someone else can take over his character).

You can either take a break from the game entirely and start a new short term game (often good for a change of pace), either you or someone else running.
Or you can bring in a side-plot - something urgent that is centred around another character - and put the main plot on hold for the moment.

Once he can commit to (and proves he can actually maintain) regular attendance, return to the main plot.
A benefit of this is that you can use the second game to check that he is really ready to play regularly again before you restart the main game via the sidegame (and you may get a chance to play rather than DM for a bit, if your group can provide a change of DM and you would like to do that...)

Jay R
2011-01-27, 11:53 AM
Having real-life conflicts isn't a problem; you work around them. We're playing this Sunday for the first time in a month, so that we can all make it. Real life comes first.

The problem is that he says he'll come and then doesn't. When you talk to him, make it clear that *this* is the only issue -- he's not living up to the commitments he makes to his friends.

Don't talk about not showing up; talk about telling you he's going to show up. It's easy to introduce a side-quest if you know you need to.

That's for solving the social issue. But the social issue is causing a game issue as well, and you need to deal with that, for the sake of your friends who do show up when they say they will.

The temporary solution is to always have a backup side-adventure planned. If he's not there, a thief steals from them, or a maiden comes running up to them needing protection right now, or something.

The long-term solution is to fix the plot. I know you want to have his friend betray him, but that isn't working. So have the friend murdered when they needed him for a clue. As they pursue the friend's murder, they find somebody else also trying to avenge him, and who helps them along the way. Now, this new guy is the one to betray them (and possibly the murderer).

The problem will not go away until you wean the plot off of the undependable PC.

Necro_EX
2011-01-27, 08:22 PM
Or you can bring in a side-plot - something urgent that is centred around another character - and put the main plot on hold for the moment.


I've actually got this going on right now, the party's cleric was contacted about a disturbance in another town and they're now practically in Silent Hill.

Jay R - That change to the plot might actually work. :D
I may just consider doing that, should this issue continue.